 We have Kushal Jain with us who has secured rank 40 in CSC 2021 and let us start this. Kushal, tell us something about yourself, the background. Sir, I belong from Jabalpur, Madhya Pradesh. I went to RBC Bangalore for my engineering and information science and engineering. After that, I was recruited by Microsoft, so I worked there for one and a half years and from there I started my preparation civil services. This was my fourth attempt, fourth interview. Fourth attempt, fourth interview. Yes, sir. And this time I have secured. How did you stay motivated for four years? This is what a lot of people have a problem with. Yes, sir, but I always looked at it as a very temporary phase because once you achieve something then it is always a pleasure. Going to interview thrice, you will always feel like I am not getting that final name in the list. So, motivation would have been a big challenge. At this point then your family and friends come into picture. So, I think they always supported me that it is just minor modifications that you need to do otherwise you are on track. So, I think and one that and second because this process is such that I never had more than two months for the next exam. So, it was a continuous cycle. Yes. So, there was not much time to think about all of this. And the difference between last year's marks and this year's would what be? 50? 100? Yeah, around I scored 938 last year and this time I have 1002. So, 68, 64 marks. So, you are a first generation officer from the family? Yes. How does that feel? Oh, it feels nice. The family is really happy. So, I think that feels nice. Where were you when the results came? I was in my hostel only when the results came though because I had this superstition that when I check my result from the hostel it does not really go well. So, I stepped out in the park. So, I was in the park actually. When you checked out the results. No, you will always be worried because you have done this thrice after the interviews. Correct. So, sociology is your option. Yes. And this was what you call you have not changed the option or anything. No, I have. A lot of people when forth attempt and all by then they feel that you know option is to blame or they always fiddle with that. So, I look at various phases of the examination. Now, you have cleared pre four times. What works for you? Sir, I think I have a very simple strategy to follow in prelims and which I have followed for my first attempt and I do not change that. The basic in it is that I have divided all my syllabus into the time that has been provided to me. So, for example, my first attempt I had around 10 months to prepare. So, I took any coaching schedule which was there which had all the weekly material that was to be followed all the weekly syllabus that was to be covered. I covered that in that week only and after that I gave the sectional test that was there. So, after giving the sectional test and after doing three, four sectional test when I was comfortable that I can give a full length paper from that topic I used to give a full length paper and I used to revise it also. So, that all my faults that I did in that paper will never repeat themselves. So, revising the test as a new go back to the test once you have solved it. Yes. What was the exercise? What do you do when you go back to a test? So, when I go back to a test I divided into two questions two or three parts actually the first part was the questions that I knew and I was able to reach the answer with the present knowledge that I had. I used to revise them lesser because that was already understood by my brain. The second part was the questions where I did not have the knowledge but somehow I reached the answer. I used to read the theory again for these questions the explanation that is given in the answer solution key. I used to read that and then I used to revise the logic that I used to go because in the prelims there would be many questions in which we have to apply this calculated logic. So, I used to revise that and third the questions that I did not know and could not really get to the answer. I used to revise it from the theory again. I think there is one more category the questions that you got right by luck. Yeah, I used to keep them in the second category. Second category. Yeah. Because I think luck is a factor when you are looking at prelims. Correct. Correct. Did you have your own notes for free? Yes, sir. I made my notes but I also ensured that my notes were continuously updated. So, these were online notes mostly. So, I used to update them as a note. Yeah, I used one note for Microsoft. One note. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I used to update them. The Microsoft legacy. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So, yeah, I did that. What does, let us take a topic like freedom struggle or 1942, how do your notes for prelims be like? So, in history per se we read spectrum right. So, in spectrum I what I did was as I was reading a page there was one or two key information not more than that in a page otherwise your notes will all be stacked up. So, only one or two information I used to just write it above the page only in spectrum. So, whenever I am revising I used to only revise that. Look at that. So, every page had just one or two information for me. And they also have that summary page after every chapter. Yeah, that can also be followed. Right. Yes, sir. So, you do not have a separate notes which was extracted from standard material like Lakshmi Kant this, Lakshmi Kant with color coded content. Correct. For Lakshmi Kant and for, for polity and for history I did that but for geography as well as economics because these require some conceptual understanding. So, those I made my own notes. So, CSAT was never a problem as you know it has become a problem for a lot of people now. Correct. Yes, sir. We have people who are scoring 110, 120 in CS, but borderline in CSAT. Yes. Right. So, test solving how many tests do you usually do between prisms and before prisms? Sir, I initially followed in my first written because I had a lot of time I followed a 100 test approach. 100 tests. Yes. Where I used. That is 10,000 questions. 100 tests and then I used to revise them. So, it is actually 200 tests that I am doing. Right. 100 tests which I did. This is in a span of 3 months. No, no in a span of 10 months. 10 months. Yes, sir. But after that because I never had time so I only used to follow one test series whichever I am following. Right. Entire test series because when you give sectional and full length your entire syllabus gets covered from one institute any institute you can follow and then I used to revise them. So, around 35 tests were there so 70 tests I used to take. Okay. So, do you diversify sources of tests like when you do 100 tests or do you try to go for diversity of tests like you know different institutes, different sources is that something that you do? No, sir. I genuinely believe in first I used to do my research which institute to follow so that can change over time. Over time. It is not that one institute I am stagnated to. I used to follow any every other institute that I thought that is aligned with the UPSC pattern because it also keeps changing. Keep changing. Right. So, based on that I used to follow one test series. Right. Right. Have you followed Shankar's environment book? That is something that everybody follows. Have you read that? Yes, sir. I have read that book. Right. This attempt ratio in pre. How many questions do you attempt? Sir, I attempt on the higher side I attempt around 90 to 92 questions. That is very high. Yes. And your success ratio what is your racial score in pre? Sir, in my first attempt I got 114 marks. Okay. Then in my second attempt I got around 100 marks. Very short. Third attempt I cleared forest also. Right. So, I got again a higher range and this attempt the idea to be released. Right. So, basically you have 10 marks above the cutoff. Correct. So, you do not waste one month speculating whether I will clear or not. I think that is a very important factor in me. Yes. Yes. It is a very human emotion to do that. Human emotion to do. But because now last two cycles have been very crammed as compared to the other cycles. So, I think even in this cycle. Right. Even though we have 100 days but I am assuming that result will again take around 20-25 days. Right. So, my suggestion would be you have to just start somewhere. Whichever topic you like. Any way you cannot do anything that will change what you have done. Correct. So, whichever topic you like you start from that. So, these initial phases that anxiety will also reduce because you are doing a topic of your preference and your preparation will come on track. Current affairs for prisms. What was your approach? Self note making, note reading. Yes, the first thing was reading newspaper. I used to do that every day. Do you make notes also every day from these papers? No. From newspaper I did not make any notes. But what I used to do was I used to go into any online modules which are there. So, in that there are every day there are five questions from prisms. From prisms point of view from the current affairs that is coming from the newspaper. I used to solve that and one or two main aspect questions that are there from that newspaper only. So, how much time do you spend on the newspaper in a day? So, it kept reducing as I progressed. Initially it would have been 2-3 hours. Yes. Now, what is the rate? Now, I think around an hour is enough for scanning the entire newspaper and picking out all the important articles that are there from UPSC's point of view. Have you shifted from Hindu to Delhi Times already? No sir. No sir, not yet. Because now I don't think there is that onus to read Hindu and Indian Express anymore. Because you are no more an aspirant. Yes, that's true. That's true. It's not a very fun thing to do anyway. Yes, but I haven't even read newspaper. It was in the last few weeks. Yes. So, this is more or less with respect to pre. You have cleared for pre with the forest cut off one of the years also. Yes. Moving on to mains. Let's say that if you were writing mains this year and there are 100 days. What would your strategy be? So, again, I will follow a very simple strategy in mains. I used to take the syllabus that is there. So, for example, GS1, GS2, GS3, there are 20 subheads, the bullet points that are given in the syllabus. I used to make again, Microsoft Word document I used to open and I used to write all the subheads there. Then under every subheads, I used to go and check all the previous year question papers and every question would obviously be under some subhead from that paper. So, I used to write it down there. This year, this question came from this subhead and I used to do this for 7 or 8. So, trend analysis. Trend analysis, first of all. Trend analysis is also what are the areas to focus under that subhead. I keep telling this to people, you know, society accounts for 75 marks. And still people spend one, two weeks on world history which does not even. Correct. So, you have to do that. There has to be logic. Yeah, there has to be some logic behind it. After I have divided all the questions, then I used to understand what kind of questions are asked. And then I used to go back to my static course syllabus. And I used to again put everything that I knew in 3 to 4 pages under every subhead. So, if you do this, you will actually end up with a 80 pages note of GS1, GS2, GS3. And you revise that 100 times. You can revise that as many times. And this will not have any irrelevant facts that you cannot reproduce on the final. So, do you update this every year? Yeah, I used to update it every year based on what kind of questions are being asked based on any other fact that some reports that I have come across. So, you kept updating what you had made in the first year? Yes. Or that's what you do? Yeah, I kept updating. Right. So, GS1, 2, 3, I used to follow this strategy only. And apart from that, this is the static part. For the question answer, for the papers part, I used to take any others, any one coaching test series, entire test series. And as I was covering my subheads, suppose 6 subheads I have covered in 3 days. Then I used to go and check which paper has covered those 6 subheads. And I used to solve that paper. Right. So, then what happens is I have done my static syllabus as well as my paper part of it. Right. So, I have the practice of writing that in 2 pages. Right. Because that is what is actually being replicated. Right. And that is what is going to go to the examiner. So, I used to do this. And I used to brainstorm also. So, for example, in my sectional test, if I am solving. So, I didn't do that 3-hour writing approach in the sectional test. Right. What I used to do was, I used to take that first question and I used to brainstorm. What I will write an introduction, I used to just scribble. Right. Next to it. Introduction, all the points, brief points and then conclusion. And if any diagram I would draw. Did you have a compendium of diagrams or something? Sir, can you please repeat? Compendium of diagrams, like collection of diagrams that you put in. Yeah. I used to have. This will go in your 3-4 pages notes. Geography, you have all the diagrams. Yeah. IR. Everything. If you think that there is a scope of drawing a diagram, please do. Pre-created. Yes. The chances of you coming up with a diagram in the interview, in the mains is. No, that is not recommended. Or most impossible. Because yeah, because then relevance would be less. No, you are already under pressure. You have to write an answer in 7 minutes. Correct. It's not possible. Yeah. So, in mains, please don't innovate then and there. Otherwise, just practice so much that you actually. And I personally feel that mains is relatively more predictable compared to prelims. Because there is a limitation for UPSC to complicate things. Yes. Very true. Very true. And there is a consistent. And I think compared to pre, our chances of hitting questions are higher with mains. Definitely. For a test series. Definitely. We had done an analysis. We don't hit exactly the question, but teams we do hit. Yes, yes, yes. Because there are limited number of teams. Limited number of teams. In prelims, the syllabus is very vast. In mains, it's consistent. No, I keep telling people that if you solve 30 questions of IR. Correct. At least 3 out of that 4 questions will hit. Definitely. Yeah. So, what I gave, I remember clearly that AUK US was from Shankar's. Right, we had asked. And the same question was asked. I wrote the same model solution and I hope it has fetched me. Now, you are sitting here. That means something has worked. Correct. Something has worked. Correct. So, I think if you practice that first brainstorm through sectional papers, then every 4 to 5 days, write one paper in the exam hall settings. Jain had said something very interesting last year. He said after every test, he used to do a very extensive post-test analysis. Yes, yes. What could I have done more in this answer? So, this I used to do in the brainstorming session where I am scribbling the answer. But then what I would use to do is I would read the model answer. So, 2 things will happen. A, the revision of theory would happen. And B, I would know that whether I have actually attempted the soul of the question correctly. Right, right. Which is important. So, and if my scribbled points are part of the solution as well. Right. I thought that okay, I am going correct. I am aligned. Correct. So, in this sense I used to align my strategy to write a very model answer kind of an answer. And once this practice has been done, then every 4 to 5 days I used to write one paper. Right. And this I used to do that one paper every 4 to 5 days was in actual section. 3 hours. 3 hours. Yes, yes. So, that all this accumulated knowledge, I was checking myself whether I can do this in 3 hours. So, very likely most themes you have gone through multiple iterations before you. Yes. Right. So, that reinforces in your head. Yes. So, because on the final day whatever is in your mechanical memory, only that thing will come out. Right. In the pressure. Yes. Yes. So, these facts if you have written somewhere and you practice it only then they are going to come out. Right. So, I think this helped me in my revision as well as my final. Concise notes. Yes. Scribbling. Scribbling. Sectional test. Full test. Full test. This is something that I will look. Yes. Right. If I go paper wise, paper one is something where people find it difficult to score. What was your strategy for paper one? Sir, I divided paper one into history, geography, society. Right. So, for society, because my option was sociology, it was relatively easier. Though I made sure to differentiate a GS answer from a sociological answer. Sociological answer. So, I used to follow normal society notes for GS one, not my optional notes. Right. Definitely that helped. We have seen this happen. Geography optional students getting very low marks in paper one. Correct. Correct. Because they write geography answers in paper one. Yes. So, that differentiation needs to happen. So, for society I used to do that. So, geography, again I used to do a lot of diagram practice. Did you make a collection of keywords for society? I think by default that came because my option was such. Right. So, I think that must have happened. How did you deal with the cryptocurrency question? Can you repeat the question? The cryptocurrency question. No, no. What was the question? The question was implication of cryptocurrency on society or something. Correct. So, that helped. Because that was a paper three question. That was, but it was also society question because the risk associated with it is similar to the gambling risk that happened. Right. So, whatever are the cons of gambling are actually the cons of cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency. Because it can be an addiction. Then obviously because we say that like privacy issues are really there. Right. So, anything can be a social issue as well because if a person is losing a lot of money cryptocurrency then it will reflect in the domestic violence aspect as well. Right. So, if you connect to that then it becomes society. So, you have to think from a societal perspective and connect it. Correct. Correct. So, the paper was different from the previous years this year. Right. It was different. It was little unconventional. Unconventional to say. Right. Geography, you have physical geography, environmental geography and human geography. Human geography. Correct. How do you approach? So, physical geography I used to make this thumb rule that I have to draw a diagram. Perfect. Correct. So, if there is a volcano question I will draw. Draw a diagram. And you have practiced that before. Correct. Yeah. That everything is in my practice. Nothing is random. Yeah. It is everything is calculated and practiced. Just the thing is you have to use those diagrams based on the relevancy. It is not that if anything in the volcano comes I will show how volcano is formed. No. That should not be the approach. But if you have those diagrams ready this helps. And especially in geography you if you have not made your diagrams then it will be very difficult to make those diagrams there. They might be in your memory. Almost impossible. They might not come out. Yeah. Especially if you are from a subject which does not involve a lot of diagram. Correct. But social people won't be able to do it. Correct. So that practice needs to happen. Whenever there is a chance of drawing a world map or India map try using that. Right. It helps in depiction of. And it does not have to be perfect. I think that's another feeling that people have. Yes. That you know I have to draw a perfect India map. No. No. No. It has representative. It should just look like a map from some angle. Right. Yeah. I think that helps helped in physical geography. And any inter-linkage of current affairs in geography. Yes. Yes. So my notes always used to get updated from current affairs. Right. You can read your main 365. Right. That is a great source to update your current affairs. I feel main 365 as a source is difficult to revise multiple times. But if you extract the essence of it. Correct. Then it works. So I always used to have short notes of main 365. Main 365. Because as such it was 500, 600 pages. No. No. That is not possible. So whenever you are reading. So suppose there are 10 points that are there. Whatever five points that you think you can remember just track that. And just write those one or two in one or two lines. And I think now they have started this summary page after every chapter now. I think that is also something. I haven't gone through that. But yeah. So I used to do this. So in my first attempt I made extensive notes out of main 365. Every topic. Then in bracket I used to write suppose quality I am doing. So if there is election. Election is my topic. So then I used to write all the articles that are associated to it. All the acts. So in everything. So whenever I am revising. All these things are getting inside my head. Right. So then in my subconscious memory then this will come out. And also interlinkage between geography and paper one and environment in paper three. Definitely. Those kind of things also happen. Yeah. You cannot separate geography and environment. Did you study the oldest and post-independence? See honestly I only I had these short notes. I don't know from where they came from. There was one by Tanmay rank 10. There was a 30 page note. Which year? I think last to last year. No. And we've had a. Yeah. There are some short notes running around. Yeah. So these will. 20-30 pages. I only did that. Honestly. I only did that. And you have to analyze. I feel either you get it or you won't get it. There's no in between there. Yeah. You can say that. But all the key topics that you should know. Right. World wars you should know American Revolution. French Revolution. In the war years. All this is a mandatory. Otherwise then. If it comes. If South American Revolution comes then you can. If Malaya Peninsula Decolonization comes. Then you cannot. So you should only read all the basic. And post independence. I feel in some way or the other we have all read it. Because it's an extension of modern history or society. Correct. Correct. Because gender, population, pollution. Like poverty. Yes. Even in economics we read five-year plans and all that. So I think that is. Somewhere it is. Somewhere we have done it. And if it's a bouncer it's a bouncer for everyone. For everyone. Right. Culture. Culture sir. I think Nitin Singhania. Nitin Singhania. So Nitin Singhania I never read the full book. It's a little bulky. No. But it is very less again. So there are short notes from that book that is available online. Right. So just download that. That is very short actually. Did you pre-create diagrams and maps for culture? No, not for culture. Not for culture. No, not for culture. Right. So I think yeah. Culture aspect I only did that. So suppose if there's a question on temples. Then those diagrams need to be made. Right. Otherwise just don't stuff. People use it as fillers now. Yeah. Marking the major movements across the country. And that takes half a page. Right. Then you have to write that much lesser. Correct. So no, no. It's a filler. It's a filler. So don't use diagrams as escape to writing answers. Use a diagram as a depiction of what you have written. Something which will enrich what you are writing. Correct. Which will enrich. Because at the end of the day examiner is going through multiple copies. Definitely. So they will always know that what more could happen. Whether you are wasting their time or not. Yes, yes. Definitely. So I mean that is a little counterproductive. Definitely. Nothing new. No. One thing that was different was modern history. Now the pattern is that a little analytical approach is coming. So for example, there was one question that all the constructive work done by Gandhi during these. So when we study, we only study all the Champa and Kerala. Everything. All of these. But the constructive work we often get to. You have to pull out. Yeah. So you have to be a little analytical in that way. So that is a little difference in prelims and means. One Gandhi related question is almost common definitely. Right. So moving on to paper two. Right. Quality 125 marks. What works for you? And I think you have done reasonably well in paper two compared to the other three. Yes. Right. What works for you? Sir, I think first is for international relations that forms across 50 marks or more than. 50 marks. More than. Yeah. Four questions. Two 10 marks. Yeah. 50 marks. So I think your mainstream study is more than enough. You have to answer writing that you're doing. I think international relations that is enough. Maps and IR. Maps and IR again from the world map or if suppose India-Israel question comes. Right. Now where's the maps required? Right. Because are you are you going to draw as well? I think if you are answering the question on Abraham accord you'll probably draw the region and probably. Yeah. Then you can. Or if you're drawing if you're writing a question about India's neighborhood then definitely you have to draw a column and your... Yeah, is that So that string of perz you can do. So all this you have to do it in your notes. Right. Just don't go and do it on the final day because then it will be half hazard. Now what I understand is that one neighborhood one China or USA Yes. One organization and one diaspora type something like that. Correct. Correct. So yeah. If you do the 10 analysis this is what comes out. So I think you can actually prepare on those lines. important personalities. Important personalities. Yeah, one or two major examples of what has been done by the diaspora. So, that you can prepare. In your organizations, you only have to prepare those which are in use. In use. Yeah. Which you can do from Main Street 65. Right. So, that part. So, this is a very predictable area. Yeah, predictable area. It is a predictable. And for the rest of the polity part, I think again, if you divide your syllabus into subheads and then if you. So, for example, subhead on parliament, right? Right. So, then you have to approach it like what are the issues in parliamentary proceedings. And a little analytical angles for Lakshmi Khan definitely helps. But. Another trend that I am seeing now is that people are interlinking current affairs in the introduction itself. They are setting a context. Definitely. Rather than defining. Definitely. Yeah, yeah. So, these two approaches can be conveniently. Abhinav has extensively used quotes. I saw some of his IR answers where, you know, started with Jaishankar's quote and ended with Prime Minister Modi's quote. Right. So, some trends are changing. Yeah, yeah. So, all this you have, you can do by looking at the copies. He has also done something very nice, like, you know, basics. For every polity question, there is a table and inside that he has written the constitutional articles relevant to the question. Correct. So, this I used to do in my notes making. So, whenever, as I told you, suppose I am writing elections. So, that article of election commission of India or any representation of people act, all this would be mentioned. So, in revision, I used to go through all this. And I think in polity also, parliament, panchayat, federalism. Correct. Elections. Correct. These are very repetitive things. Yeah, this you will anyway realize when you are actually reading the questions. This is a very. So, social justice and governments. This part is something that. That is a tricky part. Tricky part because questions are coming as such that there are huge questions and you will never know which part to focus. So, in that. 2020. That was crazy. Correct. 4455 line questions. And the conventional approach of breaking the questions into parts is not happening. Not happening there. Because it is a court-based question or a statement-based question. It is difficult to even understand what you are trying to ask. Correct. Correct. So, in that sense, you have to practice more. And you can definitely follow. So, your approach was such a question, like, you know, long statement. Correct. So, sir, in short questions, my approach was break the questions. Right. Sir. Address parts. Address parts and the question. More. But in these questions, I used to give a little at least 5 seconds more to understand the crux of the statement. Crux of it. What is the essence? Correct. What is the essence? And then the last statement would have been the question that they are asking. So, I used to merge the crux with the last statement. And then I used to address that part rather than breaking this long statement into parts. So, I used to just understand the crux and then write the answer to that. In polity, there is a debate. Are the questions statics or are the questions dynamic questions, static questions asked from dynamic themes? I think, as you said, static questions are being asked from dynamic themes because themes are limited. Right. Because they have to adhere to the syllabus. Right. And you have read all the subheads. So, you know. And the state relations, federalism, these things have to be asked. Correct. And these are all part of the syllabus. Right. These are nothing new. But what you can do is you can enrich your answers with the current. Last year, one question I feel that we did not ask was the woman representation in judiciary. I do not know how we missed that because that was out there. Yes. So, in these type of questions, you can definitely use graphs. Graphs. Where you can show how this has changed. Suppose, if you have to talk. You have used graphs in some of our tests also. Yeah. I do that. So, for example, if ever there is a question about women representation politics, I definitely used to draw that graph of 16th Lok Sabha representation, 15th Lok Sabha. I think that more often than not will fetch a loss of power. I personally feel that it breaks the monotony of the value. He is seeing all text and all of a sudden, okay, there is a graph. Yes. Yes. This can be. This is paper 2, right? Yes. Paper 3. Nobody is scoring. I think you have done reasonably well. But compared to your other three papers, this has not done as well. Yes. Yes. I think paper 3 is very dynamic. But again, as I said, if you break it into subheads, you will realize that there are some recurring themes. For example, disaster management, especially the acts part of it. I think that is a recurring theme. When they ask you, what are the provisions in NDMA Act? I think if you see the question and if you prepare it like that, I think that. What I usually suggest is that every year, what do you call NDMA comes up with guidelines on. Correct. I think the last one was that glacial outbursts. Yes. Right. And these things come. These things come. Yeah. Inclusive growth, economic. Yes. Recurring theme. Recurring theme. Recurring theme. Yes. Border management, left-wing extremism, cyber security. Cyber security, if you see, is a question in every year. Every year. Every year. That is 10 marks or 15 marks there. That are free marks, honestly. You have to at least write 3 to 4 questions on every other cyber security theme. One is the infrastructure that is there in India. One is the threats. Challenges. Threats. Emerging challenges. And then you can answer anything that UPC will throw at you. Yeah. You can write a good model answer in anything. Irrigation models. Food processing. Food processing, very important. Very repetitive. Very repetitive. So, if you see GS3, there would be 6 to 7 bounces every year. Right. This time also they were there. S400. S400 was a bomb, sir. Yeah. LED. That question. The LED one, no? There was an LED one. LED one in which they were for 2014 Nobel Peace Prize. Nobel Prize, sorry. There was that GDP computation methodology question. Again. That was little old. You would have probably got it because you started a little earlier. No, I use my prelims knowledge for that. Right. Right. Right. Because. But that was something that nobody was expecting. It's at least 5, 6 years old. Correct. Right. Yeah. Correct. But in 2018, because when I started, no? So, this was one of the things that was there. At that point of time. Yeah. In 2018, it was there. So, I just remembered the formula. And then, based on that formula. You built on top of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then, I made the theory out of it. But again, a bounce or question. And a lot of static questions are that, I think K. Shea Precovery was there this year. Yes. K. Shea Precovery was there. But I think that must have been covered by May 6, 1965 or the current affairs and the test series. I think that was a predictable question from there. Because COVID impact on economy was predictable. Environment is an extension of paper 1 geography. It's an extension. Yes. So, both have to be clubbed together and studied. If you have to score more in paper 3, what would you suggest? Sir, it would be difficult because there would be bounce or questions. Masters. Right. So, I think that is why paper 3 marks are deflated for everything. Last 3 years, it's low. It's low. It's low. So, I think improvement in paper 3 at the marks that I am in would be a little difficult for myself. Because I am not able to predict at least 6 to 7 questions in the paper. Right. In GS1 or 2, I can predict and I can prepare that. So, basically the predictability of themes in 1 and 2 is better than paper 3. It's higher than GS3. Yes, definitely. It's higher. Yes. So, ethics, that's a different story. Right. Yes. How have you been doing ethics last 4 years? Like, I think in my first 2 attempts, my score was not that good. In, I think my first attempt, I scored around 90 marks and my second 125, but that was that year. Right. When Vishakha went up to 162. Yes. So, I am assuming, but last year, I did decently well. I scored around 109, 110. 110. That year, I think the highest was 130. Sartak had. But that was an exception. Exceptional. If you see, even if you look at the marks, 406. There was this girl, Divya Mishra was there at 128 or 129. Few people above 125. Few people. Yeah, few people. So, I did reasonably well. This year is crazy. Rank 1 has 137 or something. And the next highest is 10-12 marks below that. Yeah, see now, these are all analysis, post-analysis part. But basic strategy to foreign ethics paper, I feel, is that, and that has worked with many people including myself, is that you have to take out keywords from the syllabus, from ethics. Once those keywords are out, then you have to take one or two pages per keyword. In that, you have to write a standard definition of that keyword. Second thing is the example part. Example part. So, example. And diversify the examples. Yeah. So, example can be done under three themes. One is the administrative example. Governance-related. Governance-related. Administrative. Which is actually the demand of the question, I feel, in UPSC. Second can be a personal example. But make sure that personal example is not too unrelatable to the examiner. Right. Or too unrealistic. Or too unrealistic, yes. And third thing is a little spiritual example, if you can use. Mythology. Mythology you can use. Anything. Yeah, anything you can use. So, gene philosophy is constantly used. Correct. Anekantva, then all of that. So, every keyword must have these three kind of examples with it. Along with that. I have been suggesting one more thing. Keep a quote ready. Correct. Yeah. That's a filler everywhere. Like you know. Yeah, you can definitely do that. You can keep a quote ready. But all this should be in your one or two pages only. Which you can revise regularly. Multiple times. Multiple times. Along with that, one more thing is the graphs that you can use in ethics. So, suppose I give this example everywhere. Suppose if I have to show a relation between aptitude and integrity. So, I definitely use a graph where obviously like quadrants plus plus minus minus. And somebody who has both aptitude and integrity would have that dedication to public service. Suppose they don't have aptitude but only integrity. Then there would be no innovation. Or a Venn diagram where it exists. Or a Venn diagram. Yes, yes, yes. So, anything like that must be there in your notes first. You don't have to innovate in the paper itself. No, I think this time we have Yaks ranks 6. He said he made a lot of diagrams and he pre-created it. Yes, yes. So, that strategy definitely works. For every keyword you need to have these kind of things in one or two pages. Once that is done, this is the static part. You have to keep revising it. Keep revising it. And the case study, I feel that the structure that it should be written is the first paragraph or two, three lines must be addressing the problem that is addressed in the case study. You are setting a context. Setting a context. So, for example, it can be a personal versus professional ethics issue. It can be a corporate governance issue. Multiple issues can, it can be an environmental issue. So, you can start your case study by writing that the above case study deals with so and so issue. This is in the context of. Correct, correct. That only two, three lines, not more than that. Then you should start with your, whatever is asked in the case study. No stakeholders, no. If it is asked, then definitely you write it. Other than that, as an extension of introduction, no. Yeah, then just don't make it very monotonous. Right. That if you if it. Try different things. Try different things. Because in two or three case studies, it will be asked explicitly. Another rule I keep is that if the number of sub question is two or more or three or more, don't play with the introduction. Don't play with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have anyway enough things to write. Correct. You have enough. Sometimes you have these case studies where there is only one question. Then you have to play with this. Then you can play. Then whatever you want to. Because four, you have to fill four pages at the end of the day. So once that part is addressed, then at the end in the conclusion part, I always used to write that by doing the above steps, I have ensured. Yeah, that person has ensured whichever is. So there's a conclusion. There's a conclusion that this person has ensured that he is emotionally intelligent or whatever the solution. We had some different ideas. Others have tried like, you know, there was one of the toppers who had mugged up all the motors of all the services. Satyame vichete. And they use that as a. Definitely. Anything. But they should be in your notes. Not on the final day you have. Yeah, that's what I keep telling people. And you may have great notes, but if it's not in your answer, it's irrelevant. It's irrelevant. Correct. And I also used to liberally use all the constitutional articles in my case studies. So suppose I'm stating something that I'll do, or suppose there's a question on environment, I will definitely use DPSP somewhere. Because that is part of our constitution. Or if any example from my static part that I can use in my case studies. That interlink I used to make. So I think that helped me. Case study first or party first? No, no. For ethics I used to go from question one. But I used to make sure that. I know a lot of people who start with case studies, then spend one hour, 45 minutes there, and then come to the party with no time. No, no. So you don't have to compromise any part, because you never know which part will fetch you marks. You have to give time to every question. Otherwise, if suppose I have only two minutes for the last question. So it's not just last question that is compromised. There are two, three chain questions that have been compromised. And then evaluator goes with the bias after that. So let's not like fix any type. I personally feel that for part A there is a question and there is an answer that you can write. For part B it's your opinion versus evaluator's opinion in that given situation. And that can go anyway. You never know. Code based questions in ethics. Three questions. So code based questions I used to start with. First telling what that code means according to me. Because what you understand. More often than not there would be some code which we haven't heard. So there cannot be a hundred codes that you practice. You just practice the test papers for that. And whatever you understand with that code you write. Whatever the application of that code in administration is. You write that also. If it is an open ended question. If there is a specific demand then please address that. But if there is a specific, if there is an open question. Then you definitely write what are the application of that code in administration. And then you go forward as the code is. So then you see what you can write. And then you end the question. Use of keywords. All this ontological, the ontological. Did you use to do all those things? It depends on the demand of the question. If it is a static question then you use it. But if it's a. So I read Sarthak Agarwal's copies for this. And he adopted a very practical approach to writing answers. There were no technicality. But there were very practical examples in that. So I think that. Same same was said by Yax also this time that you know. Keyword you have nothing here. Straight forward. Straight forward. And use as many practical examples. Yeah. Definitely update it. Keep updating it. For example. For compassion. I used to have some different example. But after covid. Delhi police employed all the unemployed sex workers in Delhi. For making Diaz during Deewal. Right. That's a different one also. Yeah. That's a different one also. People will not use it. But it also hits the point. Jain had said something very nice last year. He said he kept a world map and he took some examples from Latin America. And some from Middle East. You can yeah. Definitely. So he felt that you know his answers would give a fresh perspective to the evaluator. Correct. But all this get practice in your test isn't get it evaluated also. So that you don't. You get a perspective. Yeah. You don't go in the wrong direction. Right. Every innovation is respected unless and until it's fetching your marks. It's too much sir. Yeah. I had a student whom I asked to draw a diagram and he put an eye on top of each headings. And like you know this is not what we want. Yeah. Yeah. So all these innovations need to be practiced first. Right. Governance questions in like a dam is being constructed. What do you do ethics? Again very practical approach. Right. Whatever the question is just talk to yourself as an administrator and based on. What would you do? Yeah exactly. What would you do? But based on a certain set of procedures. Right. You cannot be very utopian in your answer writing. You have to be idealistic in ethics but also give practical implementable solutions. I think that also. That that works. Yeah that works. You did not get butchered in an essay. Yeah. I think that helped. You had 131. 131. That's a decent score. Yes sir. How has your essay marks been? Sir I have always scored higher on the higher side in the essay. In my first attempt I scored around 150 marks. In that year also essay was butchered. Then I mean I am forgetting the marks exactly but. But it has always been above average. Above average yes. This year 131 is above average score. Above average score yes sir. In this sir in essay my strategy. What is the topics you wrote? The first I wrote self-discovery has been technologically outsourced. Outsourced. And the second I wrote there are better practices to best practices. Which I thought was the easiest. Easiest one. Yeah yeah yeah. You did not fall for the cradle question. I didn't even understand the cradle question. That was very risky. Yeah somebody later told me that it's a question on women. Women. Feminism and motherhood and things like that. I was grateful that I did. You did not do that. I thought that this is. And I think one common theme I got people who scored less in essays that they have chosen one of those essays right you know. Yes yes sir. One. So choice of topic is always important. Very important. So I used to give a considerable amount of time because essay is a paper where you can give time. And no aspirant will say that essay may time compare. That is not a. You just have to write 3,000 words. Correct. Or 2,500 words in 3 hours. Correct correct. And in GSU write 5,000 words. Exactly. Time is not a factor. Time is not a factor especially in essay paper. So I used to devote time towards first choosing the topic and second making the structure. Because once you have made the structure then writing the essay becomes easier. And that can be a little mechanical. But all the innovation needs to be in your structure part. So I used to devote around 20-25 minutes doing this. First choosing the topic then making the structure and then writing the essay. Innovation means do you have an example? So I used to use anecdotes very liberally in my essay. And all these anecdotes I would have pre-prepared. Popular cultures, literatures, cinema. No so in my every essay I used to always include. So for example if there is an essay on suppose women empowerment. Right. So I used to always use an example of a tribal girl in northeast. And I used to somehow empower her. Right. And I used to start like a story. Like a story anecdote. Right. Like a half page story not more than that. But I used to somehow empower her or if a question is on digital technology. Right. So I somehow used to empower a northeastern tribal girl on how technology has helped her and her life been made easier. So I used to start my essay from that. Then I used to give a linking para that the above anecdote reflects how this thing can happen. And then I used to start my dimension. Spellage model. Can be used but in philosophical essay. No no I have done when the essay static. Static. But when the essay is philosophical then I used to hand pick what all dimensions can be applied on that essay. So then I used to in my structure. For example this time the first essay that I wrote that technologically outsourced. Outsourced. Now this model was not actually getting very it was not fitting in that essay. So then I made new dimensions then and there. For example how we now know how much our heartbeat is from Fitbit or Apple Watch. So this is how I thought that essay meant. That how we have we are depending on technology for everything. Everything. Sleeping. Drinking water. Everything. Everything is now technologically outsourced. So I used it and then I also expanded it on the diplomatic part. But how international relations are being defined by how technology transfer is happening. So how this is also every for example Israel as a country it's a small country. But because it's technologically so powerful. Their aspirations and that is all different level. So there is a realization self-realization is also because of technology. So I use all these dimensions somehow. Use of titles in essay. Subheadings. No sir I don't use to do it. Free flowing essay. Free flowing essay. Just that para should look that that para is ending and the new one is starting. Language ideation more important or content more important. Only content sir. I think very normal language it should not look like a very broken language. You should be able to express your idea. Express your idea. Flowery words seldom help in this exam I feel. So I think normal language but strong message should be the most awareness. Do you bring back your anecdote to conclude it or bring it back in other parts of the essay also. I used to do that. So for example if I mentioned the girl there. Then in somehow some dimension I used to say. He just has left. She would have helped. Just as Lakshmi mentioned in the anecdote before. This could also help million other girls like that. So I used to keep referring to it but only two to three times not more than that. What would be a good strategy for essay. So first is so suppose if we are talking about a static essay. So I think the Yojna magazine the first page is the editor's note. I think only one that page needs to be studied. So for 12 months there will be 12 pages to study in that because that editor whoever the respectable editor is they have mentioned everything that is there in that book. In a free flowing 4 to 5 paragraphs. So I think that more of a summary more of a summary. So I think that really helps an understanding first what is there in the topic. And second how to write that in 4 to 5 paragraphs. So I think those 12 pages could be studied. Apart from that when whenever we are studying GS it is actually we are preparing. How many essays between volumes and minutes. So every week one paper of essay that is two essays. Two essays. Yeah yeah so every week one. So that you have to do. Also it's not very mentally tiring like a GS answer because again it's. It's free flowing. It's free flowing. So you write more philosophical essays. More philosophical. Also one more thing is research a little bit to find that previous year how many people scored very high marks in essays. They might not be top 50 people. No yeah that's what I keep telling that you know. Don't go by the rank. Don't go by the rank. Only go by the mark specifically in essay paper. And also if you're looking at somebody's paper. Look at the paper that has been written in that year when they have secured. That is also important. Exactly yes and how their practice essays looked like. Because even though the coaching institute might not have given high marks to them but UP essay has rewarded them. We gave you 120 I believe. One. I was looking at one of the papers. It was not our highest scores but it was better. But I think that was not a very good essay from mine as well. Yeah because I was. You have written a better one at UP. Yeah I have written a better one. Yeah I feel that. So those those people need to be researched. It can be a 250 rank 300 500 irrespective of the rank. Read those essays somehow. If you can I mean institutes can help finding those people. But I think essay strategy though those essays should be read. It helps. You were part of our mainstreaming test series. You have written almost 8 to 9 papers. This is something that we find common among people who score ranks. They write what they join. A lot of people join but they don't write enough. Do you think your strategy towards answer writing has changed over the years? Have you written more in subsequent years? Not more but because since my first attempt I have been clearing mails. So my strategy has been to write answers. Because means you have to labour. Because that's how you're being tested. Yeah because that's how you've been tested. And also because you have to train your muscle memory like that. Because there would be lesser time to think more time devoted towards writing. So I think brainstorming and writing answers writing test series. And when you write test series you get it evaluated. Prelims in prelims you can definitely check your answers. That's right or wrong. Right or wrong. Interview nobody can help you like that. But in mains it's in your hand. Entire mains is in your hand. You need to get a perspective on what would have been done differently. And in mains effort is directly replicated in your marks. Answers. Yes so more effort you put in mains more marks you'll get. Definitely. It is not true in prelims or interview but in mains this thing. So what would be the right number of full test between pre and mains? What did you do last year? I think every 3-4 days you have to write one full length test. So that's 15 to 20 papers. Yes so I think this should be the optimum level. But also you have to include optionals also. Optionals also. So I think when you are writing 15 GS you have to include at least 10 optionals. 10 optionals. Yes. Because I also think that you know when you write 15-20 tests a lot of themes will get repeated in mains. Correct. That's another factor. As it is yeah it happened with me as I told you also. It happened with me that some questions I have felt I just have to write again what I actually. If you are writing it the second time definitely you are going to write a better answer. Yes definitely. You include all the you will not make the same mistakes that you did before. That's the post test analysis. Yes yes that has to be done. Irrespective of prelims or mains. That's post test analysis and so I always tell people that so there's this distance between your answer and a model answer. You have to keep reducing that distance every day. So ultimately if you reach close to that then you will get reported. And I think incremental improvement is what you can expect. You can't expect overnight magical changes. No that will never happen in this year. Right right. So sociology you tried something different this year right. You have improved almost 50 marks also. Yes sir. What was that? So this year what I tried to do was first I followed Jagratya Vastimams last year all India ranked 2's strategy in which she actually wrote sociology answers. There was sociological bent but pattern was very similar to GS. More points three three lines points and then more points. So I think I followed one that and second thing is I thought that I knew the theory but somehow I was not being able to replicate it in the two pages in the exam. So I made all my notes as I was writing an answer on that topic. So suppose there was one topic. I thought that if a question is asked suppose just define this topic in two pages. I only used to do that so ultimately I changed my note strategy and my notes only had every topic two to three three pages which I used to write. So I think that helps. So notes is a very essential part. Very essential yes. Essential part. And how many tests for sociology you wrote? So this time I wrote around 8 to 10 tests because this time the time was lesser as compared to other means. Interview is what got you the rank. That's what I would say that you know 192 marks is a good score this year. How was the scores previous years and how did you reach 192? Sir it has been a roller coaster journey obviously. And most of the time you don't even know what worked. Yeah yeah yeah. So in my first attempt I got 175 marks. Second attempt I dropped to 140. Third attempt I again got 180 marks and this time I got 192. 193. 193 marks. So I think I have seen all the spectrums of interview now. And you were saying that you had a similar board. Similar boards yes yes. So the same the similar the same board that gave me 140 this time rewarded me with 190. That's amazing right. Yeah yeah. So I think maybe luck or maybe my all the experience. Or the board member don't remember you you know that you have come there. Yeah now this is subjective we cannot predict it. So that's true when people get high marks they give the same reasons to which they'll give the reasons when they get low marks. Yes definitely yeah. That's what happens right. But only one thing that I realized is interview preparation is as laborious as means preparation where you have to take out keywords from your DAF. And then you have to extensively make a question bank which can be asked. And then after making the question bank you have to individually write answers based on what you are thinking. Because if you if you don't write answers first you will not prioritize your point. And second you might end up saying something that can be politically incorrect also. So I think writing those answers will definitely help you. And then it will help you remember also. So in their quality of your answers will definitely improve. And you'll come out as a very logical analytical fellow. Right yes. So interview that that's it. I think that's with respect to the preparation. How was your experience with I think this is a marketing part of this whole interview. I have tried to keep that out. How was your experience with main starring? So I think it was a very pleasant experience. Because I have given many other test series also. But I thought the level of answer correction at least the time that was taken for my answer correction I think that was quicker which helped me to fine tune my preparation as well. So I think yeah in this sense I think Shankara is really here. Right right. Thank you so much. Anything you want to tell if like and I think this is a common question. If you were to do this four years all over again. What would you have done differently the first year? No I think I would have done the same things. And I think I would have ended up where I am. Because I am very grateful where I have ended up. So I think I would have done this again. Because again I would just suggest this to every aspirant watching this that whichever topper you follow has gone through this process. The struggle is part of this process. And it's real. It's real. It's real. One or two toppers you might find who have done lesser struggle. But more often than not everybody else has done struggle at some point. Some people show it. Some people don't show it. It's there. So you have to accept that this is part of the process. And if you are struggling you are moving towards higher things in life. So I think if you keep doing this and all the best to you that you will also make such good ranks. Thank you so much. It was very enlightening and very useful.