 Okay, welcome back to Think Tech. This is Global Connections on Think Tech, and I'm your host, Jay Fidel. Our show today is called India-40, The Circle of Demons from Manuscript to Amazon. I'm going to talk to Peter Adler, who has published a book now, and the book relates to his experience in the Peace Corps in India in the 1960s. There it is. There's the book. There's Peter Adler. Son of a God. And the rare journey, this is it, people make deep into the soul of an entirely different civilization, and as a result, they find their own. Wow. Okay, and Peter is speaking at the East-West Center on July 25th, so if you have a chance to go there and see that, that'd be worthwhile. The third floor, I think it is. Brown bag, bring your own lunch. Brown bag, okay. Peter, welcome to the show. Thank you, Jay. It's a pleasure to be back here. All right. Good to see you. So I was, you know, kind of getting my mind and gear for the show, and I went back and looked at the show you and I did on December 23rd, 2016, and if you will, my opening was such, it was amazing, it was an amazing show, and I want to play the opening again. I'm going to do that now, sort of get into the mood for this discussion. Ready? Watch. Hi, I'm Jay Fidel. This is Think Tech. Welcome to Creative Contributions here on The Given Friday. Today we'll talk about a manuscript that defines a man I know and a notable period in American history which we should all know about. He and it, they are about the Peace Corps. That means Peace Corps, the way you pronounce it in India in the 1960s. Right about the time when the Vietnam War was happening, with all those destructive implications, while the war was destructive, the Peace Corps was just the opposite. When I graduated from NYU Law School in 1965, first I went into the graduate program there in that school, which was not protected from the draft. When they came for me, I answered with my own move, go into the service that saves lives, the Coast Guard. I could have gone into the Peace Corps just as easily, I think, and some of my friends I recall won, his name was Matt Seymour, I don't know if Peter knows him. He was my co-graduate counselor at the dormitory at NYU. I was dazzled with his move, but I love the idea that he went. And today all I have is the memory of him in his 20s, along with me and his name, Matt Seymour. Now, Peter Adler answered the call by going into the Peace Corps, and it certainly changed him. More than that, he decided to write it up, and we're here today to talk about his wonderful, heart-rending lessons and experiences in living the life of the most exciting global adventure that came out of John Kennedy and the optimism of the early 1960s and global optimism that we can look at today, that our generation at the time could ever have, that was the time. Peter was at the core of it, incredibly lucky to be there in the mainstream of those experiences, and we are incredibly lucky to be able to talk with him, and soon enough to have the benefit of his recollections and stories and his manuscript and book about the experiences that defined his life and certainly have enlightened and do enlighten ours. Welcome to the show, Peter Adler. Thank you, Jay. Thank you. Well, that was the beginning of our last show on December 23rd with Peter Adler, and we talked about his book, India 40, The Circle of Demons and More, and we went through a number of the chapters and the really important things that he was talking about. So it was 1966, the war in Vietnam had intensified, 50 freshly minted college graduates were invited to train for a possible Peace Corps assignment to India. Of the 50 who began training in a Texas border town called Zapata, only a handful, and Peter calls them the dirty dozen, I guess they call themselves the dirty dozen at the same time, they finished a two-year tour in India. So India 40 and The Circle of Demons by Excebrus Publishing, Excebrus. Excebrus Publishing. Just recently, it's part memoir, it's part creative nonfiction. It recounts a life-changing journey of Peter and the others in which death, disease, drugs, and political crazies and corruption in India took a toll. So the true heart of the story says, Peter, I'm quoting, and by the way, I have some reviews of this book, which I will quote from, is the rare journey people sometimes find deep into the soul of an entirely different civilization, and as a result, they find their own. And this is really the core of our discussion today. So let's get current. We met on December 23rd, and if you guys have a chance at all, please look at the old video. It is one of the best thing Tech ever did, in my opinion, and that's saying something. It was December 23rd, it was Peter Adler. It was India-40 Circle of Demons. You can find it on YouTube, or you can find it on our site, thinktechalight.com. So to catch up with you, Peter, since December 23rd, you've managed to take this huge, maybe uncontrolled manuscript and make it into a book that is now available on Amazon. Did you hear that? Amazon, it's on Amazon right now. What was the process like? So somebody once asked Ernest Hemingway, not that I'm Ernest Hemingway, somebody said, how do you write a book? And he said, you sit over a typewriter and open a vein. And that's kind of what this has all been all about. This has been an odyssey to try and tell a story and get the arc of the story right. And memory is always a little fickle, but I've talked to my buds, the guys we were still in. Great, so they helped you on the detail. And we've met, and some of our friends have passed away, and we've gathered together to remember them, but also to talk and remember that. And I know memory is fickle. Trial lawyers make wonderful hay out of all that. So finish the book, finish the manuscript, went through a lot of editing. What's it like editing when he says to you, Peter, this is not going to work. You have to change this. I love it. I actually love it. I actually welcome that. And I take that kind of editing very well. And so it's been finishing that up and then bringing it to this publisher and getting this thing sort of honed down. Shorter. Sorry? Shorter. Some of it's shorter. Yeah, and some of it's just getting it corrected, getting it typographically corrected, getting it language pieces fixed up. So it's been an odyssey. And I'm so glad I did, and I'm glad I'm done. Sure, but as we talked about before the show, to me, it's worth mentioning we need to mention this. That you spoke about your youth. You were in your early 20s in 1966 and thereafter. Two years at that age, you were very impressionable. You were in a completely different civilization, different in every way. And you're subject to it. You're vulnerable. You're fragile. You don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. You could get sick, fall off a cliff. Who knows what? Be murdered. You could run into some political problem that is profound in a foreign country where you don't really necessarily have the support you might expect as an American citizen in those days. And India today is a lot different than it was 50 years ago. Very different. Although in some ways it continues to be India, which is different, but it's the same as it was. I went back, I've been back a couple of times, to kind of go back even to the place where I live, which was then a village of 5,000, 6,000 people. Today it's 30,000. It's a commercial center. I found people that I knew. Oh, wow. I still remember the kids of people that I knew. And I went back there very specifically to say thank you to a few people who had passed away. But I talked to their families and wanted to say thank you for keeping a peripheral and supervisory eye on two young Americans who were idiots and didn't know what they were doing. The Peace Corps doesn't exist in that town anymore. Not anymore. Peace Corps is out of India. It's got a number of countries that we don't want. We don't need you. We don't want you. That's too bad. In fact, that was part of the genesis of all this was discussions between Lyndon Johnson and Indira Gandhi in 1966. And we were a political add-on to a weak deal. And they wanted Lyndon Johnson, wanted Peace Corps volunteers and AID workers, I think both for cosmetic reasons, because he wanted to do something better than just showing that we were fighting in Vietnam. His soft power is what it is. I think that's exactly right. And you want to have good diplomatic relations at the grassroots level so people in India like Americans and all that, the price you have to pay. But in terms of your experience and our experience as a generation, this got us out of the country. It got us to learn and engage with countries everywhere, even developing countries. We became much wiser. They became more knowledgeable about us. It was this was the time to which we want to return to make America great again, I think. America was great in those days. America was in turbulence then. In the very turbulent times. That wasn't so great. Well, I mean, it was what it was. And today there's people now who think the war in Vietnam, which they called the American war, by the way, that people think that was like the French and Indian war or something like that, or the Franco-Turkish war. And so people, a new generation, really doesn't know much about it. And that's one of the stories we need to tell. We need to remind people that, hey, we've been through these things before, and they're tough times, and it's always been tough times, and always will be. Yeah, and we talked also, it was very powerful for me. We talked about national service. Talked about you're doing yours. I did mine in the Coast Guard, really not the same, and I envy you for what you did. The Coast Guard was relatively protected. You were unprotected. It was much more adventure, much more learning experience for you, I think. But the whole idea of national service is going out of style. People grow up now. They have no contact with the federal government. The federal government is some obscure, adverse party. They don't like it. They don't trust it. They don't be part of it. They pay their taxes grudgingly. They do not do their civic duty. We're disconnected that way. But in those days, we were connected. You know, I have a good friend. His name is Victor Kraft, and Victor lives here. And while I was in India killing rats and growing chickens up for businesses and building a few schools, he was in Vietnam, and he was an aircraft mechanic. And he was fixing up airplanes that had been shot out of the sky or shot down and was full of bullet holes. I've seen pictures of it. And we have a lot of different political views that diverge, but we have that common thing about the value, the powerful value looking back of national service and wishing that people would find that way to do that one way or another. Yeah, it's really too bad we gave that up. Not because people didn't like the draft and nobody likes the draft. Nobody likes getting killed or exposing yourself in harm's way, but the value of it was that you connected with the country and the country connected with you and you connected with other countries. And this was very important. In our time, we had that. We don't have it anymore. So we have a little bit. We have AmeriCorps. We still have a Peace Corps, and we have people doing national service of one kind or another, but it is small. And it's not a part of the norm. So when you talk about, when you write about this period of history, you're writing about something that's largely iconic and forgotten, I think no longer in the mainstream. And so what I was saying before the show began was, I envy you the opportunity of taking a good part of your life to write this up. You wrote about that of memory. You checked with your cohorts and the dirty dozen, which kept you in touch with them. And then you come out with a book that is a statement, not only of the 1960s and your experience in India, but all of your life, because your life was unfolding as you were writing it. You were building all that wisdom into the lens, into the perception of what happened back in. But who knew back then? I mean, back then you're just a kid and you're experiencing all this stuff and trying to collate it and put it together and bring together the right story. And some of what's in that book is creatively enhanced, shall we say, but at the end there's a quota and I own up to what I've changed. I try to own up to it. Yeah, yeah, so if you look at the end, there's some people in there who are fictitious, there for a good story, but the core of the story is this odyssey through inner and outer geographies. I mean, that's what's really going on. The odyssey indeed, a mission of discovery, an experience of discovery and an experience of discovery externally and internally. Mission impossible. Mission impossible, but you made a pretty good record. That was good fun, yeah. And you mentioned before the show also this great quote from the Lincoln movie. Can you talk about that? Yeah, I was watching the film again of Lincoln with Daniel Day-Lewis, who's a fine actor. And this is Lincoln towards the end of the Civil War and it's trying to pass the 13th Amendment. And he's talking with his wife who's grieving and maybe really off, quite off, and grieving the loss of her first son and worried about another one that may die in the war. And she's berating him and he says, you know, time has a way of thickening things. And so it is, when you look back, when you look back, you see the outlines of a bigger story or interest more interesting story that you couldn't see while you're in it. Yeah, and that's- You can see the arc of things. And that's this book. I think so. This book is thickened by time. It's made richer by your own life experience in all these years you've been writing it. So in a word, before we have our break, what arc is there? Part of it is the journey into an entirely different civilization. It's like going to Klingon or something like that. I mean, it's just like going into Star Trek, into another world. I mean, I grew up on the South side of Chicago, even though I've lived here most of my life. And it was just a small, high school, sheltered community. Didn't know much about what was beyond the South side of Chicago. I actually thought I was gonna go in the Coast Guard too, but that's another story. We would've loved to have it. Yeah. So the story is really going outside into another civilization that you don't know and don't understand and having to grapple with that. Peace Corps gave us very good language training, but it was just a starter, you know? And then once we were in the country, we learned lots more. And it was really about understanding people at a person to person level and trying to do some, get a few things done in a place that's very different pace and a very different rhythm. But I have to say I had time, like my roommate and I had a lot of time to read, especially during the long monsoons when it was just raining, there was nothing going on. And we read a lot. We talked to a lot. We experienced a lot. And that includes people departing the Peace Corps because of drugs, overdoses, suicides, right wings, you know, xenophobes, all kinds. We were accused of being CIA agents. So we had a lot of people sort of pecking at us about that and were you CIA agents? And we had to explain if we really were, why would we be in this village? There's nothing to see. So, you know, a lot of stories that I tried to weave into this thing. But it is about the outer journey into India, but it's also about changes in myself. A journey to awareness on all levels. So that enhances your life in general. Yeah. Thus enhanced, we're gonna take a short break. That's Peter Adler, author and more. We'll be right back. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. But I have a story and I don't know where to start. I still have nightmares. I feel overwhelmed. I can't live like this anymore. I'm really not so good. Are you ready to listen? We all play a role in keeping our community safe. Every day, we move in and out of each other's busy lives. It's easy to take for granted all the little moments that make up our every day. Some are good, others not so much. But that's life. It's when something doesn't seem quite right that it's time to pay attention. Because only you know what's not supposed to be in your every day. So protect your every day. If you see something suspicious, say something to local authorities. Hello, everyone. I'm DeSoto Brown, the co-host of Human Humane Architecture, which is seen on Think Tech, Hawaii every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. And with the show's host, Martin Desbang, we discuss architecture here in the Hawaiian Islands and how it not only affects the way we live, but other aspects of our life, not only here in Hawaii, but internationally as well. So join us for Human Humane Architecture every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. on Think Tech, Hawaii. Okay, we're back. We're live with Peter Adler, who is a mediator, facilitator and principal in Accord 3.0, which is a professional consulting organization. Yeah, it's small. And he's really had a rich life. And now to look back and see what happened in India in those days, you know, broadens, enhances life. It's admirable and enviable kind of experience. And he has this book and in a while, I'm going to ask you to read from the book, as I always do. And then we have some photos we want to show you from Peter's time in India. But first, what is this thing in the table here? So this is called a Nataraj. And anybody from India would know this instantly and many people not from India would know this. And this is, Siva is one of three major deities, primal forces. And Brahma is the creator of the universe and Vishnu is a stabilizer of things and Siva is a destroyer of things. And they all play multiple roles and they all have good sides and bad sides and many incarnations. And I spent lots of time trying to understand all this stuff that I only claim to know this little bit. Is that Hindu? Is it a Hindu? Yeah, so this is in the Hindu cosmology and it has lots of symbolic meanings around it. The piece that is kind of so interesting to me, and I don't know if you can actually see it. But his foot, you see right there? Let's see. So that is a dwarf and you notice his foot is stepping on that and that dwarf's name is Apsmara, which is ignorance. And so Siva is trying to bring some truth and enlightenment into the world and stepping on and trying to keep Apsmara at bay. So interesting, but this is full. This is the circle of fire that he will bring to destruction of the universe. Everything we know will be destroyed then a new universe will be born. Is that the circle of demons? Yeah, part of it. Some of the demons are inside of all of us, our own. Homesickness. We all have our own Siva. Exactly, so the demons are, he's constantly fighting battles with demons and sometimes he invents demons. They can make demons, like we can make their weapons to be used. And then sometimes they come after him. You would not have learned this on the south side of Chicago. No, it wasn't part of my... As you mentioned before the show, and people who lived their lives within the continental US boundaries and spend their time on text messaging, they would not have learned this either. South side of Chicago, 1960s. Who knew? Who knew? Even now. Even now. You know, the dwarf of ignorance down there, that's us. That is us. That was me. That was me. Well, let's look at some pictures and go through some of your slides. So these are pictures from the book I get. Yeah. And we'll see if you can explain and give us some detail. All right, this is a cover sheet for the book, yeah? That's right. And basically what I, one of the things I believe is partly embodied in this book is, you know, I've been trained in social sciences, but I started out in biological sciences. So I have, and I still have a great interest in science. And we, in science, you believe the world is made up of animals and plants and minerals and strands and particles and atoms and chromosomes. I think the world's made of stories. Stories make the world, we make the stories, we make the world. And that's part of what this book is all about. Every story you could put together, you put it in this book too. Try it. It's full of good material. Okay, let's go to the next one. So this is the dirty dozen, or part of it, it's not everybody's in there. And this is 1967. We're skinnier, we're not quite as, you know, healthy as we might be today. And this was just a picture taken by our group. And you know, our group had whittled down to this group. And the movie, The Dirty Dozen, was out and somebody said, we're the dirty dozen of India. So that's how that name came about. It could have been a bunch of recruits from the army too, at the same time. It could have been, it was not a period of time. Yeah, so there we were. I mean, we're wearing the 1966 shirts, Madras shirts, and a couple of our Indian friends there, and you know, so it's just a picture. But again, this is, you know, this inner search, and there's also the outer business of adjusting the new culture, and there's the inner story too. It's happening to everybody. So glad you don't have these photos. Yeah, some of my buds brought those. And why now, why would this, and what part of the reason for this is the guy in the middle with the kind of vertical striped shirt just passed away. His name was Peter Van Zyl. We had a gathering together in Medford, Oregon to remember him. And part of this is, you know, our ranks are diminishing. We're, you know, we're not as young as we once were, getting a little longer in the tooth. Yeah, I don't want to do the math, but the math will tell you that. That's right. So I think also part of the reason for now is because it is the 50th year anniversary of the war in Vietnam. That was the era. Ken Burns has a big series coming out on that. That's right, gotta say. Yeah, so, I mean, I just think it's an important memory. And third, and this goes back to our previous discussion, Jay, you know, Kierkegaard, I remember reading something, he said life has to be lived for, but you could only understand it backwards. It's the same thing as Lincoln. It's exactly right. And it's thickened. It's now it's thickened. That story is thickened. Yeah, and kids, when you go out for lunch today, or when you go home and your mother asks you, you know, what did you study today? Tell them you heard about Kierkegaard. Because I think that it enriches every day. I think all of us were also wanting to get out of dodge. I mean, we, you know, we all had our individual dodges and you had yours and we just needed to break out. And part of that is being a 21 or 22 year old, part of it was the times, just needing to find a new path and go your own way. And you grow, you have to grow up. Have to do that. That's why it's important for kids to get out, wherever they go, go to another country, go to another experience, learn, subject yourself, expose yourself. And learn the language and live with some people. I mean, it's one thing to go as a tourist and just take, you know, jump on a bus and see the sights. It's quite another working and living and trying to understand the language and learn, we know that language and culture wrap together. All of the, all of those good things, all of those, it's summer camp plus. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. More pictures. So this is, these are just scenes from Indy, but that lady in the middle there is Japanese. Her name is Carolyn Watanabe. She's from Hawaii and she's my wife. And part of the story in here is a love story. I mean, look at her, she's stunning. And so part of it, we had a very odd courtship, only four dates and we decided to get married. We got committed, she stayed on to finish her tour. She was a public health worker and I finished mine six months early, came home. She came back later. We got married here in Hawaii in 1969. And but, but so part of this is the memory of all this too. That's part of it. That's part of the thickening, isn't it? Is she in the book? Yes, she is. Okay. And we have very, we have very different stories about how we met, but mine is true. Mine is true. That's great. So I guess another thing that's important to remember, again, we've said a little bit about it, but the sixties was tumultuous. It was a turbulent time and we're living through some turbulent times ourselves, politically, culturally, socially, technologically, every which way. But the war was going on, huge protests. People were getting killed at Kent State. Sure, I mean, you know, students protests was erupting. There was lots of marijuana smoking around, lots of fragrance in the air, a whole change in counterculture, black culture. So the backboard of this story is important. It's an important piece of this because we're not independent actors devoid of any history and that context I think is quite important. Those times were transformational in the country and for our generation. Who wouldn't think? Yeah. What else? So this is every, you know, every cultural group has an origin story, you know? And if you're a Muslim or you're a Jew or you're a Christian or you're a Hindu, there's some story that goes way back and here's how we came into being. And the story of our group, the political genesis of this was in 1966, Indira Gandhi and Lyndon Johnson had a meeting. And Lyndon Johnson was promulgating something called public law for, I forgot the number, one of the public law, that was a big week deal. And it had a lot of strings attached to it. So they were giving wheat to combat starvation and help promote agriculture in India, Pakistan, South America. And what they did was they really wanted to promote and have Peace Corps volunteers and AID workers in conjunction with it. India didn't want them. They really, they said, we've got million engineers and doctors that are out of work. Why do we need freshly minted college people? So Lyndon Johnson said that's the terms of the deal and he was over there. Got to do it. Yeah, and so we know that he was a great deal maker and that was his deal. Not bad, not bad at all. No, I mean, so that's the origins of this. And it took us a while to understand that. And I've talked to a former diplomat from India who said, you've got most of it right. There was a bigger lens going on internationally had to do with international finance and so on. But that was the origin of this. Because we were, we were the 40th group in just a few years to be inserted into India. Pioneers. But think about that, 40 groups. That's a lot to be packed in in just a few countries in a few years. Would you, from your vantage now after writing this book and all, would you want to see a resurgence of that kind of popularity, that kind of number, that kind of force in the Peace Corps? Well, truth is that there was a lot of bad programming. There was such a rush to put people on the ground. I don't think the Peace Corps did a very good job and that's another part of this. Chronicle, that there were a lot of mistakes were made. We went in and the program we thought we were ostensibly going to work in was virtually nonexistent. It was very corrupt. It was very, it was called a rural manpower program. And the idea was to take off-season agricultural labor, put them together on infrastructure projects in the rural areas, schools, roads, market roads, wells, bridges. And so we were trained, I was actually trained in construction. I mean, I was a history and English major, but we got good training. And the language was the key. But the program was sort of a facade. Could it have been improved over the years? Yes. Was it at all improved? I'm not even sure that program exists anymore. I think this came out of some of those big kinds of World Bank and Asia Development Bank. Five-year plans, which were popular at the time. And I don't, I mean, I asked, when I went back to India a couple of years ago, I asked for the people who were part of that program and nobody knew. Yeah. So it's sort of faded into history. That program, for sure. And this makes it live, this book. It's a remembrance of it, for sure. Indeed, well, I mean, for me who wasn't there, for all the people who weren't even alive at that time, we have to understand this. It was an essential element of transformational time in American history and society. It's just as important as the Vietnam War as the whole generation, and you were part of that generation. You know, what's interesting, Jay, is we got there and we were expecting to be deployed and put to work. And we got there and we were sort of paraded around for some political purposes. But, you know, I'm ready to build schools and roads and that kind of stuff and work on those projects. No, nothing's going on. So we'd go and complain to our Peace Corps supervisors in Mumbai, Bombay, which was, you know, nine-hour bus trip. And they'd say, just go back to the village and do something useful. You know, sorry, it's not working out. So we had to make our own work, which we did. Good. And you learned something in that process, I'm sure. That's right. So read me a paragraph. Let's get the flavor of this book. Love to. Let me find a piece. And I got a couple of chapters flagged here. But I want to just talk about the corruption we encountered. I didn't really understand it, you know? I mean, we had our own corruption in Chicago on the South Side and through Mayor Daley. This was like nothing had ever counted. So the rural manpower program we were attached to had good intentions. Employ off-season agricultural labor, put men and women to work on infrastructure-building projects before the monsoons set in. Build much-needed small dams and wells and so on. Truth was, it was a bust. It was a bust, part of a very sclerotic five-year plan of the sort made fashionable in India, China, and elsewhere. And, you know, the local government who administered these programs, as well as other government schemes, were people called block development officers, BDOs, if you will. And, you know, they did the hiring. There was a lot of skimming and a lot of graft and a lot of cork. But it was also part and parcel of how things got done. So I'll just read you this one section of how I, my first real encounter with some of this kind of larceny and bribery and extortion and breakdowns. And here's worse than Chicago. Yeah, here's how it works. You are a Peace Corps volunteer. You're stationed in a boondock, say in Ked, which was the name of our village, or up the road where my friend Ted lived in Mangal. You are isolated, but you do get reasonably regular mail delivery. One day, a little shrimp who works for the post office comes to your door and cackies wearing a pink Nehru cap and starts shorts. And he says he's collecting contributions for the Ked chapter of the All India Postal Workers Cricket Club. You say, no thanks. I don't play cricket. The next day, your mail stops. You wait. You wait some more. After about 10 days of no mail, you go to a trustworthy friend, my engineer friend, and he tells you he'll look into it. A few days later, he comes back to you and says, a little guy, a letter deliveryman, is going to come to your door and ask for a contribution to the Ked chapter of the All India Postal Workers Cricket Club. Give him a few rupees. He will pay some. He will keep some and pass more up to his boss. Sure enough, he comes, you pay, and the next day, your mail starts. Oh, perfect. So I mean, what a lesson. What a lesson, but we have our own versions of that in our society. But this was in stark relief. Well, this book is loaded with stories like that. It's loaded with sort of an introspection, but an extra introspection too, inside and outside. And not only what's happening with how you react to it or you learn from it, Peter has taken a most valuable part of his life and then seen it again through the lens of his later experience professionally. And then you have a really thick and set, and I don't mean to stick it in the sense of hard to understand. It's well written, it's good language, it's good prose. Even lawyers can write good prose. There you go. And so you've got to read this book. It's on Amazon. You've also got to look at our old video from December 23rd, where we talked about some of the details. Whoops. And? That didn't happen in 19th century. No, that didn't happen. And you've got to go on July 25th to the East-West Center and see Peter speak about this very same subject. Peter, thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure. As always. As always. We have to do it again. Good. And always. Thank you so much, Peter. Bye-bye.