 All right. Good morning, everyone. Welcome. Welcome to BC310, our class on chat and ministry administration. Thank you for joining the class today. Let's pray together and then we can get started. Could one of us please just pray with a class and then we will get started? Anyone? That's great. James and my father, we come to you most Jesus. We thank you for this day. We thank you for the class we're about to have where we learn about how to administer the church and the ministry that you have given us the responsibility to Jesus. God, I pray that after you're listening, you will help us to understand on how to handle things in the right way so that we can live life for your glory, Jesus, the best, best rashes and the best. One of my classmates over here, let it be a good time of learning, let it be a time where we understand more about you and the kingdom. We give you all the glory and honor in Jesus, namely, pray. Amen. Thank you. Thank you so much. And once again, good morning. Welcome to everybody. So in our course on church and ministry administration, we have been in lesson, we started lesson number seven last week when we were talking about church staff management and we're just going through, you know, step by step on how we do things and so on. So let's quickly review and then we'll take this forward today, look at some new things. I did share some samples of these documents in the classroom section so you can take it, modify it, feel free to use it in your ministries as a menu, just be useful. So, you know, we said that a very important part of ministry is is overseeing, managing the people who are working in the ministry. And, you know, the way we are structured here, we have full-time staff, those people who are working full-time for the church, they are paid a monthly salary. Then we have consultants, consultants are paid hourly and they can work for us remotely from anywhere. And then we have volunteers, volunteers are most people from the congregation who are serving freely, they're giving their time, their energy into the ministry and they're not paid, they are just volunteer time. So we talked about, you know, how do we have a good team of people, you know, how do we all work together nicely without problems so that the ministry, the work of the God Kingdom can go on well. So we emphasized, first of all, the hiring process. So, especially when we are taking on staff and consultants, we try to have a very thorough hiring process to make sure that, you know, before we take people on, they can really fit into what they're looking for. Because if we take somebody on and then there are problems, it becomes a little difficult to say, you know, please, you have to go, it's not working out on that. That's that's a little painful process. So, better, it's always good to put the effort in the beginning, make sure that people are, you know, well suited to. And so I kind of shared with, you know, some, some practical things we do, how we interview people and so on. And we also do, you know, eligible checks, we are to the job offer letter, I shared with you about the staff guidelines and new employee orientation. Let me just pause here. I think there may be a question on the chat. Okay. So there's a little question there from Jafina. I have a doubt looking at what you said. So you made the guidelines all by yourself. Are those who are head of that Ministry of Youth Pastations variety guidelines? And do you have any pattern for guidelines in these? Are there is a mystery work must be covered in the guidelines? Okay, good question. So we have what we call as the staff guidelines, or staff and consultant guidance, which is for anybody whom we come and join our ministry. So that was something that I put together and it has evolved over time. So, you know, in the early days, maybe it was four pages, I think 20 some pages, whatever, as we keep seeing every year, you know, we keep adding content or changing it based on the needs. So that was something that has evolved over time. Then we also have guidelines for every area of the ministry. So that's a, let me see here, it's available on a guidelines page. So every area of the ministry has these guidelines and options. So in some cases, I have written some of them, but most of it has been written by the people who are in charge of the ministry. So I tell them, let's see, you are in charge of the ministry, you write down what you need people in your team to do example, book table. It's a simple thing, you just come arrange the books on the table and pack it up, arrange it and pack it up. It may be a simple piece of work every Sunday, but there are certain guidelines, meaning how do you want the books to be arranged? You can just simply put all the books on the table. English books have to be in one section, other language, right now we are only keeping English, so all the books have to be arranged in a certain way. How should they pack it up? How should they store it? How should they communicate with the church office that they need more books? So it is better to write all these things down so that somebody joining the team, they can read this document and they understand how to do their work as a volunteer. It's very simple. Others every new person have to tell everything how to repeat the guidelines to them. It's a problem. So I just tell the ministry leader, so most of these guide, the ministry guidelines are written by the ministry leader and we try to keep it updated. That means, you know, how we do things, if things change, I just tell them to update the guidelines. So that's how it works. Yeah, so I will just run and if they'll send it to me, I just look at it, everything is fine, then we put it on the website and then they start discussing. So I'll just review it very quick. So about the second question over there, is there any fact that we want to, these must be the areas that must be covered in these guidelines? The main objective in the guidelines is to make sure that that particular ministry area is functioning well, you know, that that work in that means it should be done well. And if it is a very, if it is a very, let's say a very visible ministry, like if it is something that's on stage, for example, especially the worship team, then we are even more careful because these people are standing on the stage. It is like, it is a spiritual, so worship team, life group leaders, ministry leaders, those are heading up in this very visible. That is the guy, the standard as we are, because people are seeing them. Whereas if, okay, well, it's simple, you come, you arrange the books, pack the books, go, nobody's, I mean, you know, they're not paying too much attention and who is doing it? That is in the worship team, people are watching this person is singing, this person is playing the instrument, you know, because they're on the stage for at least one hour, every Sunday. People are watching and so people will question their conduct, their behavior, all those things. So for them, we have to be even more careful and say, hey, it is not just how you play your instrument. People are watching it, that's the way, how you are on the stage and how we are off the stage. People are watching it. So for them, the standards of the guidelines will be a little bit more strict. Whereas somebody in the backstage, I mean, of course, we want everybody to have proper conduct, but we don't necessarily need to spell out everything. Whereas for the guidelines and people who are on stage, we actually spell out, you know, hey, trust me, trust me, because otherwise you will come close. You're going to bust it, this person was wearing this kind of, oh, this, these problems are happening. So we have to be a little careful, you know, in those steps. So if you write the guidelines down, as new people keep joining the team, you know, we just say, hey, just go to the guidelines, just follow the guidelines. This is how we want to operate. All right, so let's move forward. If we don't ask any questions. So we also talked a little bit about employee compensation. How do you decide on the salary that you have to pay the people? And of course, it all depends on how much each organization is able to pay and how the organization grows over time. So those are factors. But then we also looked at, you know, what are the criteria, the competencies, how much responsibility they carry, how much leadership they provide. These are things that you take into account when you are deciding on the salaries that you want to give the people. And then the last part that we touched upon was the employee management, which is how do you keep people motivated to come and do the work with passion? Every some page 25, you know, every week after week, day after day, they come and they work. How do you keep them energized, passionate, keep them full of passion. And so we shared some thoughts on that. And we also talked about some of the demotivators, things that can actually demotivate people. All right. So the next thing I want to talk about is employee satisfaction. So I'll share with you a simple job satisfaction survey. That means maybe once a year, not saying we have to do this very often, but once a year. Just to see are some questions in an anonymous way. So people should feel comfortable. They can say what they want. It's not without keeping out their name. A simple servant where we ask them, you know, are you happy working here? Or what are the things we can do better? So sometimes we won't come and tell us directly these other problems I'm facing. So at least if you give an opportunity where they can say it without feeling I am going to be judged or it's going to be held against me in an anonymous way, that's a useful thing. Now of course, as I will talk about it a little later, I try to meet with other people throughout the year, like regularly on a monthly basis. Some people I talk every week, every week, we are constantly talking, discussing things in different areas of ministry. So it's almost every week, surely at least once a month that we discuss. But I can't do this for all the staff only meet with the pastors and the leaders of the ministry. I can't meet with every person in all the staff. I can't do it. We won't have time for that. But we do want to get feedback from everybody. Anybody in the organization, staff or staff consultant or volunteer, should be given an opportunity to just say, hey, these are some problems I'm facing. These are some challenges that should be given the opportunity. And doing a survey or setting up an opportunity, the survey is only an opportunity. We can think of other ways that you can have an open house or you can have, you know, an email ID that says feedback at ABC to just send an email. You're welcome to get feedback. So people should know that if I have some concerns, I can speak up and not be afraid. I just tell them, hey, this is a problem. Then at least we can try to address it. For example, just two weeks back, I think this is two weeks back, somebody in one of our church locations, he sent an email and his email was that he was being asked to do the PowerPoint every Sunday. And he was not given a break like that. Now, so it was like he's expressing a concern. So I've been asked, I'm doing this every Sunday. I don't have a break. And every Sunday I have to come and I have to do this. So I immediately I was actually upset with the pastors in charge of that church because it is our understanding that we always rotate the work so that no one person should feel burdened by that response. That is our normal thing. That's the way we always work. So we don't want to burden one person or two people with the response every time. We want to share it. And so we lost the people we ever take it. So I was quite upset like, how come this is going wrong? So I immediately, so we had, I spoke to the pastor. See, I got this email, this email, this person sent an email to feedback. So he gave his feedback. So then I asked and then we took immediately we took action. Like he said, hey, give him a break, you know, let him let him rest for at least for the next few months. Don't ask him to do the PowerPoint. Let him rest. When he is ready to serve again, let him come and say I'm ready to serve. Then the roster but do it in a way that will not be burdensome to that person. We have to care for the people. We can't just put the load on them and make them work. So in one way, it was, I felt disappointed because we already have a procedure how we were, but in this particular case, it was not being followed. But in the other way, on the other hand, I was happy that this person could say, you could express himself and say, hey, I am feeling tired. I'm being told to do this every Sunday. I can't do it every Sunday. I'm happy that he said because only then we could correct the situation. So we did it immediately. Within two Sundays, we went and we trained some more people on how to do the PowerPoints, how to do things so that there are more people now who know how to do it and who can help with the media work so that that media work is not on only on one person. It is shared and he's been given a break so he can come and just enjoy the service, just worship to this family and whenever he's ready, he can always start doing it again. The good point, good thing is people should be able to say and whether they are staff or consultants or volunteers, they should be able to express and we should support them. Now, the other thing we do and the next few things that I'm going to say is mainly with full-time staff. Every December, all our church staff complete a planning document. That means they will write it's a review and planning. So that means they will write their own review of the previous year. How did this year go? What are the good things that happen? What are the areas you feel you should have done better? So it's basically they are themselves reviewing their own work and they will write a planning for the next year. That means what are your in your areas of ministry? What are you planning to work towards in this area? So everybody writes that and they send it to me or they will send it to their immediate team leader. So whoever is overseeing their work and so that person will be just go through that and in January is when we go through the stop. So in December, they will write it and send it. January, each one will sit with their own person, people to review this. So this is what we learned from last year. These are the good things that happen. These are areas you could have done better and you didn't pay much attention to. So in this year, what are the things you can do better? So that annual at least once a year this happens for all the stuff and it happens in a very formal way. That means they have to write everything down and they have each one is I will meet with some of the people, the leaders will meet with their people and review it. It's like a very formal thing. That means the whole reason is we are saying take your work seriously, learn from what happened the previous year, plan to do better the next year. So don't just go on blindly just doing this and not knowing what you're doing, have some plans, do your best. So that this exercise happens every December and in January. So before the year goes into full swing, people are okay, this year I have to work on this. But the thing is we cannot, especially in ministry, we cannot put too many numbers. Like meaning we can't say this year you have to bring 500 people to Christ. This year you have to preach so many conferences and we can't say that. Whereas in a corporate setting, you can put numbers, you can put sales numbers, you can put whatever, you have to do this, you have to do that. Whereas in the ministry, we can't do that. Those numbers are not what we dictate. So it's more of a qualitative assessment. That means how did things go? Where could you have done better? What's your plan for the coming year? What are the areas, focus areas, things you're going to focus on in your ministry and how are you going to do it? Now in some cases, we try and put numbers, example, worship team, I challenge and this is not to challenge them. For example, I told them, every year you release one new album. The album will have at least six to eight new songs. So every year, release one new album, six to eight new songs. But to have six to eight new songs, you have to write at least 30, 40 songs because not every song is going to be good. So you have to, the team has to write about 30, 40 songs. Out of that, maybe six to eight songs will be good that people can actually sing. Other songs will just fade out. So to get there, you have to plan. You have to train the team and encourage the team. And then there's a lot of work that goes into that. So this year, the team wrote, I think over 13 songs. And then out of that, they were able to select seven big songs. And the work is continuing. The team is continuing to work on new songs. But as of now, and they have recorded four songs so far, and they're planning to record two or three more, two more I think in November or something. So it's a motivation. So that number is only a guideline. I'm not saying if you don't do it, it's the end of the world or something. Just like, hey, try to release one new album every year with some new songs. But then the plan happens, like the previous year, the plan, okay, next year we're going to release a new album. How do we encourage the worship team? How do we build them up? So every ministry area has a plan and it's working towards it. So the worship pastor will be in charge of that. So then in addition to this annual planning, what is there are regular review meetings? So like I said, for some areas, I'll be talking to the pastors every week, and that how is it going, how is that going? But definitely once a month. And in some ministry areas, I will say, okay, you send a report once a month. So in, for example, let's say life groups. So in life groups, the life group report will say we have so many life groups. All these life groups met every week. So many life groups met at least once in the month. So many new life groups have started. And so many people are getting ready to start. So those numbers that report has these numbers for every month. So that's so that way, at least we have, we know that this is how our life groups are doing. And how many people are attending each life group? And we want to know what percentage of the church is actually participating in life groups. So these are numbers that are useful. And then we know how, you know, okay, we have to work on building, getting the others involved, building up more life groups. So plus we also look at, okay, there are our life groups around the city, which are the areas we need to start, where we don't have life groups. So once a month, we'll sit and review this. The life group person or the pastor was in charge of life groups. And then so I just had a meeting Tuesday this week. So they were faced with. So we went over this, okay, how are things going? And I gave some ideas, okay, these are things that can be done. These are things you need to focus on to keep building the life groups. So like that, member care, how to, you know, caring for all our church members, did everybody receive a phone call this last month? Did every house receive a phone call? You know, how many house visits did we make? All, you know, all these things. So for these things, we put numbers and the report, tell the person, pastor and church member, can give the report. This is what happened. So then we actually know that this is what we are doing. You know, we aren't simply saying, huh, just call, you know, we don't know how many calls are made or how many people call, how many people are not called. We don't, so if you don't have numbers, but we have the numbers that you know, yeah, we covered everybody this month, every household called and even on those kinds. So these regular review meetings, I held once a month to just oversee the administrators and those pastors will then work with their teams, you know, so I just will meet with the pastors, pastors. Any questions so far? Let me see online. You all with me? Everyone's with me? Any questions? So these review meetings are not to control the people like, you know, pastor is controlling me, he's telling, no, no, no, these review meetings are more to make sure that the work is being done, you know, and to actually assess what is being done and where can we make improvements or where are we following shots? So if we don't have these review meetings every month and we just let people, okay, you just go to the ministry, then we are not sure. We don't know, right, is the work being done, is it not being done, can we improve, can we get better, you know, where are the gaps, we don't know that. So these review meetings are very important for us to make sure that each ministry is doing well. So let's go forward. All right. So what do you do when there are underperforming employees? So this is a different area. Suppose you put somebody in charge of a ministry, so can you take care of this? But the work is not getting done. What do we do? All right. So it is actually quite a problem. Because especially in a Christian church, let's say context, because see, in a corporate setting, if somebody's not doing work, say, hey, you're not performing, I will give you one chance with whatever and you have to leave. Or they can easily find somebody else to do the work. But in a church, in a Christian ministry, it's a little struggle because you want to show compassion. You want to be patient. You want to be kind. But at the same time, you know, work is not being done. This person is whatever the reason is, right? There could be many reasons. I'm not saying it's always the individual's fault. Whatever the reason, the work is not getting done. Or it's not getting done at the level at which it should be getting done. Maybe, you know, you want the work, the work should be getting done a certain way. Maybe they're only doing 50%. They're doing something that is only 50% or 60%. And it's not at the level that it should be done. This is a challenge. So I can, I'll just share with you how we handle it. I'm not saying this is the only way to do it. But so what I would normally do is, if somebody's not doing their work properly, or sometimes what happens is a ministry leader, a pastor, a minister, he or she has a team of people and she or she will come to me and say person A so and so in their team is not performing. They've been given a certain role to do, but they're not doing it. So they'll come and tell them. Or sometimes it may be one of our own pastors or ministry leaders who are not doing what they're up to the work. How do we handle it? So first is we need to talk to them and see where is the problem. The problem could be maybe they don't have the required skills to do the job well. The problem may be sometimes they're going through some personal difficulties. Maybe they are going through some family problems and answer problems. So they're not able to concentrate on their work. That could be sometimes the reason why they're not able to perform. The problem could be maybe that they don't have the required support. They don't have the required resources to get the work done. And they have not come and told us, hey, I need three more computers to do it or I need another one or two people to help me to do this. They haven't told us. So the work is not getting done, but that could be the problem. So before we pass any judgment, the important thing is to have a conversation with the person. I said, hey, see, in your ministry area, this is what the work should be done. And this is why, so this is where it's important to have the written guidelines, the rules, because we have read it. We have told them in writing, this is your role. This is the things you're supposed to be doing. And they can always reference it. We can always reference it. This is why the written role description isn't very important. So see, when you joined, when you started this, when you took this up, this is what we've said the role you should be fulfilling. But as we have observed the last so many months, only about 60% is getting done. What is the problem? So we need to find out what is, why is it? Then, if there is no proper answer, then it means maybe they don't have the skills or maybe they don't have the motivation. They're not enjoying that work. Maybe they want to be doing something else. So we have put them in the wrong place. Or maybe they put some personal problems or maybe they don't have the resources. So we need to understand. So let's say, okay, let's say if it is, and so then we need to address the problem. So the next step is to address that specific problem. So if it is skill level or something, then either we have to make a decision, can this person acquire those skills or do we have to move them to another role? So if they can acquire the skills, then it's okay, in the next two months, please do these courses, please learn this skill and try to be better. But if it's skills that they cannot acquire, maybe they don't have the capacity, maybe they don't have the interest to learn those skills, then we have to find some other role which is suited for them. Or if they're not motivated to work in this area, then we have to move them. We can have an honest conversation. So see, this work is very important. We can't keep you here. We will find somebody else for this role and we will find something else for you to do. And so we have to make that change. Now, sometimes we're able to make the change, we're able to give them some other role in the organization, in the ministry, that they can probably do that. Sometimes we're not able to do that. There is no other opening, there's no other opportunity in the ministry, in the government, where they can fit. That's when we have to say, I'm very sorry, we will find somebody else for this role, but we don't have any other place for you. We have to give you 30 days notice, we request you to please find a job somewhere else. So that's a difficult part, but that has to be done. Because we have compassion, we are trying to help, but if there is a situation that you cannot help, then this final decision is a decision made in the best interest of the ministry. The work that needs to be done, the people who need to be served, that's important. And we give 30 days notice, that means for 30 days, they'll still get paid, but we encourage them to find something somewhere else. So everything is done in a very nice way, but we assess the matter and depending on that, we can take the right action. So two important lessons here, always do these kinds of things as far as possible in face to face meetings. I know I made mistakes in this area. I remember in the early days, we had one person working for us from home. I think Sherroll was a content writer or something, so writing content, but she was working from home and she was in the far part of the city. She was somewhere in like JNagar, JP Nagar side, south of the city. Our office is here, north of north side of the city. So she was doing the work. Then after three months, these were early days, I made a lot of mistakes. I saw that she was not doing well, maybe one or two emails, interactions I had. And finally, I had to decide, okay, you're unnecessarily wasting time and money here. Let me let it go. My thought was, hey, she's living in the south side of the city. I don't want to tell her to come all the way from there to meet me in the office, just for me to tell her that, hey, we're letting you go. I thought maybe I'll just send her an email. So I just, you know, politely send the email, hey, you know, sorry, the work is not up to the mark. And therefore, you know, this is your last date, you know, the usual 30 days notice and I get, but she was very hurt by that. So very hurt. Why? You have to do this by email. My thought was she's so far away, why should I tell her to come to the office to tell her this news? I'll just communicate by email. That's when I learned that, hey, these difficult matters, it is better you sit in front of a person and talk. Don't do it by email. Yeah, yeah, there is this convenience. I see what he can mean, I can send one email, it's done. But it's a very difficult matter, you know, how will that other person just see it? Or if they have some questions or they want to discuss something, they don't have the opportunity. Right? So that's when, you know, that was one of my mistakes and then I had to tell myself, okay, don't difficult matters always sit and talk. After you talk, then you put it in the email. Okay, so I also say put everything in writing. That means after you finish discussing, put it down in the email. That is, okay, this is what we have discussed. Or this is the decision we have made. So you need to put it in the email so that there is clarity and people don't forget what we have discussed. But difficult matters sit down and talk. Have a face to face conversation as far as possible. Now, if they are living in another city or, you know, they're working remotely from somewhere else far away where they physically cannot come, then yeah, you have no choice but to do a Zoom call or something, you know. But as far as possible, difficult matters sit and discuss it, explain it, listen to them. They may have some reasons, listen, then put everything in writing. And so this is what we have discussed. Okay, so any, sorry, any questions on this? All right, Rosalind, you had a question. Can you give an example for this? Sorry, what was the? Pastor, you just shared an example. Oh, okay. Thank you. So yeah, so, you know, I made some mistakes. I had to learn through it. Collins, please go ahead, share what you have. Collins, do you have something to share? Go ahead. Yeah, yes, Pastor. That is what you've said that it is always good to have principles, like when you're going to take an incisive matter and you meet people face to face. But you see human beings, I'm sorry to use this word, they cannot times become human animals. When you do A, they say you would have done B. So I think you answered it well that you must set guidelines that whenever maybe we are going to fire or shift somebody from here and here or whatever the case, we must meet this person face to face. But you see, when like you say I evolved and what I'm going to tell this person is not even adding just my nursing and you were putting on sympathetic and empathetic shoes. But you see, if you had called them in the first place, again, they would say, if you had told them to come and meet you in the office, again, they would say, why wouldn't he email this to me? Imagine my transport, imagine the time I spent, you know, I was going to get a negative. So it's always good to have a set procedure, but humans at times can become human animals. They will always hope for what you didn't do to have been the best social. Thank you, Pastor. Yeah, two comments. I mean, you know, sometimes we can't predict how people will react. It is true. But yeah, we try to do the best. We try to do the best. And I think most important is, as long as our conscience is clear, you know, that the decision I'm making is for the good of the church. It is for the good of the people we are serving. Therefore, I have to make this decision. It may be very tough. This is, you know, especially when you're changing people roles, or have to let people go, it is you're doing your conscience is clear. You're not doing it out of wrong intention. I think that would be a guideline for us to maintain. So in ministry, having a good review process is important because it gives you the basis there for making decisions. Without the review process, I cannot tell, you know, somebody is doing their work or not doing their work. So it's also unfair. Suddenly, I can't even say you're not doing your work. But if you know, you find that over three, four months, they're not doing their work, then yeah, it's like three, four months we have discussed, you know, doing the work. So now I have to find out another person and make the change. So these are difficult things in the ministry, but we should try to do it as kindly as we can, the best we can. And as Colin Collins pointed out, we can't predict the reaction. Some people may take it well, some people may not take it well. And but, you know, we have to keep our conscience clear that we have done the right thing in the right best way we know how to do. So the next part that I just want to talk about a little bit is developing our people. That means employee development, page 26. That means, you know, we want to make sure that our people, the staff, the church staff especially, they themselves are growing. If they keep growing, then their work will also keep improving. If they don't keep upskilling themselves, learning new things, learning how to, especially now in a city, in a city, working in a city, means you have to keep learning new technology, keep learning new things. If they don't keep learning new things and being exposed to new ideas, then what they are doing in the ministry may not keep growing. So we have to think about how do we keep our people learning, developing themselves. So that is something we think about. And of course, depending on their role, depending on what they're doing, we can encourage them. One is they will of course get on the job training. And we also every month, we do a staff meeting. So the staff meeting happens on the last Thursday of every month. Of course, part of the staff meeting is we spend time in prayer and worship all of that. There's a devotional part to it. Then there is a practical part. The practical part is that we are one of our learning presentation or something new, something what we want everybody to learn, that everybody can use or understand in their area of ministry. So things like how do you do project management? How do you do people management? How do you build your team? How do you anything that helps them in their work? And this so every month there is staff meeting on the last Thursday of the month, the afternoon we do that, spiritual and practical. Then on the job, of course, we encourage people to mentor others. So if there's a senior person, we'll encourage that person to develop the junior person. He has a new person, trainer help them to grow, learn, etc. So there's on the job, nurturing, training that we encourage people to do. We also, like I mentioned earlier, we provide 10,000 rupees every year for people to do courses. So they can use it however they want, every individual. You can do online course, you can go to an in-person course, whatever. You spend that money for your own development. It's there. But if you're doing a course, you have to finish the course, you have to pass the course, show us that you're completed this energy. Otherwise people will simply join and they'll waste the money. So the condition is you go and complete the course, we'll reimburse up to 10,000 rupees each person. So that option is there or of course, they can do free courses online all of that. Then we tell them for our staff, all our training is free. That means every staff can attend at least, I think it's two courses, public college courses for free every semester if they want to. That means four hours a week they can use for their learning, attending a course and as part of their work. That is spiritual development and also our weekend school. So every month we have one weekend school on a Saturday. We say you can attend the weekend school for free and it will be considered as part of your work. So these are just opportunities. We're giving to our staff saying you can take advantage of these things. They are happening all the time. Anytime you want you can attend but it's for your development, spiritual or practical development. Let's pause here. I'll come back and I'll take this forward. Okay, let's go for a quick break and we'll come back in 10 minutes and we will continue this. So the weekend school usually happens every second Saturday and we have different topics that we cover like healing and deliverance, gifts of the spirit, inner wholeness, God at work. So different topics throughout the year and they keep repeating every year. Same topics are covered, of course the content will be a little bit more enhanced every year but it happens second Saturday every month full day, morning 9, 30 to 5, 30. So people come to the church office and they conduct this, more like a seven hour kind of thing, but very informal. People ask not a question, we pray the minister. Okay, let's pause. We'll come back in 10 minutes. Thank you.