 When I started my journalism career back in 2005 and I was like covering open source from early on One of the challenges was to tell companies why you should use open source What are the benefits today everybody's using open source? But as you the reason I was asking is that but today all these companies who use open source don't know how open source works Yeah, so so do you come across this problem? I mean you gave one example, you know So how how what's your message to those? Well, it's important to differentiate between people who are going to consume the product and people who are gonna Participate in the product and try to sort of make money or build business on the product, right? I don't expect the Consumers to participate quite as heavily as I expect the the partners You know Spotify's keynote today was fantastic And I sort of feel bad that he feels bad for not participating more because I Spotify is mostly an end user I expect them to be expected Orders of magnitude more end users and partners They don't they're not expected to have to participate exactly that said they're welcome to and I and I'm happy to help them and anybody else be successful On the flip side, you've got all these businesses who are trying to be part of the Kubernetes ecosystem, right? the hardware vendors and the software vendors and the security vendors and They yeah, you want to play in the Kubernetes space come to the community meetings and talk with us I mean I come to KubeCon and me with exactly I When I talked to Linus Thorwells, you know and the basic question I asked you were like a lot of people They are just using the name. I mean if you're not making any changes to the kernel You don't have to be a you know just go out and you shouldn't be aware of the process exactly that I've read had different stories Susie a different story, you know or mingle different story But so if you're not making changes, you don't have to you should not feel bad that you're not contributing