 Good evening, everybody, the podcasters. Thank you so much for joining yet another special episode of the Private Property Farming podcast. My name is Mbali Nwokko, your host. Obviously, all the time, every Tuesdays and Thursdays, right here at 8 p.m. on the Private Property Farming podcast, thank you so much for joining us. We've got another fantastic show talking everything sustainable rural farming. How can we get rural communities to farm sustainably? I mean by getting them to get contracts so that they can continue farming commodities in which clients wish to procure and obviously growing them at the end of the day. So we're gonna be talking about small-scale farming, rural farming, smallholder farming, how they're able to farm and cultivate their crops at a commercial level, even though they're based in rural communities. And we've got a fantastic lady who's been assisting these rural communities and she will tell us about her organization. This evening, we're joined by Uokbo-Lomfugeng, the executive director of Ciavuna and she'll tell us more about what the organization does and how they're working together with farmers in rural communities to obviously service the contracts that they've been able to secure. So if you have any questions for Uokbo-Lomfugeng, please feel free to comment on the comment box below. We love engaging with all you guys at home, wherever you're watching us. We really, really enjoy engaging with you guys because again, this podcast is for you to teach you about farming, to expose you to the wonderful individuals that we have on the ground who are doing phenomenal things across the country. So once again, feel free to comment, like, share and mostly subscribe to our podcast channel on YouTube that is going to private property under the playlist, go on to the farming podcast and you'll get all the videos and conversations that we've recorded thus far. So let's get into tonight's show. I am joined by Uokbo-Lomfugeng from Ciavuna. Uokbo-Lomfugeng, thank you so much for your time this evening. How are you doing? I'm good, thank you Mali, and how are you and to you to your listeners? I'm doing fantastic and I'm sure the listeners are also doing fantastic. Quite easy to watch you do in the rural space. So by means of introduction, maybe tell us who Uokbo-Lomfugeng is and I know you are the executive director of Ciavuna. Tell us what the organization does as well. Okay, I'm Uokbo-Lomfugeng, I work for Ciavuna Abundance Development Center as an executive director. My position is quite one of the interesting one because I was not really just employed as a director. So it has been a journey for eight years. So I started at Ciavuna in 2013, employed as a PA to a director. When I got to Ciavuna, I realized that there's a gap within the organization and that was in the monitoring and evaluation sector. So I asked the director, I said, can I please go to this training because I think this is where you need help. And then as much as she was reluctant, I said, okay, you can go, we'll see how it works. Then I went for the training, I was trained on M&E and because the M&E manager, over the years as I grew, they saw the potential and then later on I was appointed as deputy director. But then that was mainly because of the study that was conducted by Chukululu-Magnodem, we were funded by massively many projects and that was pink. So what happened is they identified the gap within the civil society sector that most organizations are mainly run by people of color, but we don't have people of our color representing as in NGO sector. So from there, the executive board of Ciavuna decided to say, okay, we want to change this, we want to change this narrative, it should not be like this. So that's when I was kind of like, I am back to an agent of transformation and transition planning for three years. So during that period, I was trained on leadership skills, coaching all the sorts that comes with their position. So last year in September, I was then appointed the executive director of the organization. So that's me in a nutshell. So at Ciavuna, which means we harvest, but a small NPO, we're based in Ramskates, KZN, most people know it as Poshepstein. So the way that it started, there's a huge organization here in the South Coast called Give a Child a Family. It is then called Place of Restoration. So what they do, they take children who were previously living in not good conditions like orphans and stuff and then they place them in homes. So they came up with the concept to say, how do we assist these families to grow their own food and to eat healthy food, as opposed to us just giving them hands out and vouchers and stuff. So they started this concept to say, okay, we'll train them on how to grow natural, chemically free products. So over the years, Ciavuna grew, we 12 years old by the way, Ciavuna grew beyond GCF needs. And then we expanded to eight other communities that we work with. And then from there, we just flew like out of the nest. And then we were able to be registered as a separate NPO in 2011. And then what we do now mainly is we train smallholder farmers in rural communities on how to grow, okay, I will say organic, but not certified yet, but we work under the PGS system. So to grow chemically free vegetables. So our farmers are mainly women, 83% are women, with an average age of 55 years unemployed. And most of them, they are the head of the house. There's no male assisting and so forth. So they are the breadwinners in a way. So what we do is we train them. And then after training, you have an option to sell, okay, I want to sell my produce to Ciavuna but just want to grow for my household. So if you decide to sell the produce to Ciavuna, we then train you, we mentor you. And then you sign up for a PGS system that says, where you agree to add hire to our standards that you won't use chemicals. If you find using chemicals, it's suspended for two years and so forth. There are a lot of regulations that come with that. And then we realized that over the past 12 years of existence, yes, the model was working, farmers were earning income, but it was not really sustainable. So we approached IDC and said, IDC, we need your help. The model is working, but it's not sustainable. There's so much dependency on Ciavuna. Should Ciavuna close down tomorrow, these farmers won't be able to continue with the project. So we said, we need to find sustainable markets for these farmers because they work so hard and the produce that they kind of like producing their garden, it's just the best. When you come to South Coast, you must come and try our vegetables. You will never go to spa again. You will never buy anything from pig and pig. Pass me. So what we did is IDC finally gave us funding after eight months of pursuing them to say, please, we need to do our homework. Just give us this money. We will do what we said we will do and you'll come up with the results. So the outcome of the study, we've got three business plans. One is for us to grow a natural ingredient product called Balban frutensis. Most people will know it as uputu in Isizulu. They call it aloe vera on steroids. That's how good it is for your skin. So in the second business plan, we had was for dried vegetables, which we've just got machinery to do that. So it's another product in the pipeline, which will start in 2022. And then we continue with our fresh vegetable concept because that's what we know from. And our fresh vegetable is sold under a brand called Gumlandi. Most people here in the South Coast don't know Ciavuna, but they all know Gumlandi. So now with the projects that we're working with, the one project that we mainly focus on today is the Balban project, which is the natural ingredient product. What it does, you grow the plant and then you extract the gel succulent from the plant. And then that gel succulent is used in the cosmetic industry. It's very good for our skin. It's just a pill. It's like you can't see my beautiful skin because I use it a lot. It's good for moisturizing your skin, even for mosquito bites. If your child is a mosquito bite, just take the succulent as is and drive it on her skin. The next morning, there'll be nothing, there'll be yield. So that's how effective it is. So we take the plant to a company called Botanical Natural Products Indian Pompo, with whom we have a three-year of take agreement with to supply them the product. And that agreement states that after when we've reached 30 hectares or we scale to 30 hectares to grow the product, we will be able to develop our own processing plant. Because our vision is not only for farmers to grow, but it's for the farmers to be involved in the whole value chain process, from their things to production to retail. I know most people will be dreaming big, but hey, if your dreams don't scare you, tell your dreams. So currently now in that project, we've chosen 20 of our based farmers in one community. We studied in one community, we'll be planting three hectares of the opal vine and then scaling to five hectares next year. You'll be surprised and amazed that out of those 20 farmers, average age is 64 years old and they have to work for a distance together, but the way that they do, you cannot tell. We also have youth in the project which we're lucky to work with Department of Agriculture. They've placed them to work in the project and then they'll pay them. So we're trying to balance between women and then we have youth and we only have about 12% of men in the project. Wow, this is fantastic. You're definitely deep into the rural areas. I like the fact that you've started on three hectares and you're looking to expand to five and selecting the best farmers because at the end of the day, it's very important that farmers or people in the rural communities take this quite seriously. And I like the fact also that Isi Avuna is not just giving handouts, they're teaching people how to sustain themselves at the end of the day. So I just wanna find out how difficult or easy was it to start mobilizing the farmers and to get them to see the vision of why Isi Avuna has come to their communities. You know, the biggest mistake that we make as civil society members, we all want to come up with change and then we just engage with people from the ground. So our approach really is to involve the tribal authorities in that community, which makes it easy because once the chief or the Indianers understand our concept, make sure that they understand it, there's no expectation. And then everything is clear from the start. And then they themselves mobilize the farmers to say, okay, we have, we'll call a meeting for all rural, like people who are interested in farming to come and it's going cool and they don't have this discussion. So for us with that approach, it has always worked, it's hard work because what we do, we keep them informed. Like each and every step, everything that we change, everything that we do, we ensure that we engage with them so that we are all on the same page. Wow. And also the areas of the land, because land is such a debated topic, the land that these farmers are producing on, are they owned by the chief or the rural communities? And I heard you say they have to travel quite far. So I presume that they're not farming in their own backyards, they're farming in land that is maybe allocated, is that correct? That's partially correct, I'll explain to you just now. So the vegetables that they grow, they grow them in their backyards garden. So it is kind of like a substance farming method. But with the bulk vine flutenses product, we grow it in a big five hectare land because once you harvest it, now listen to this, once harvested, you need to take it to Potanica within 48 hours, because it loses that gel when you keep it until you harvest it. So we had to come up with means and ways on how we can mitigate those factors. So we had to get a five hectares of land. We all know that we like our authorities and the Indianers and stuff, but we knew that we didn't want anything for free because once it's for free, there are a lot of family dynamics that comes with that. So what we did, we've asked the chiefs to at least lease us the land for five years. So we have a lease for five years for the five hectares land that we're using. And then we are planning that in the near future we'll be able to actually purchase the land in the near future. Yes, I agree. Fantastic. And you've mobilized some youth to come into the project as well. How have they taken this opportunity? You know, we've been trying to engage with youth from inception, you know, the youngsters don't really want to get their hands dirty. And also they want to quick fix, like you must pay me now or I cannot wait for half as farmers for me to get paid once I've harvested and actually saw the product. So what we've done, we've taken another approach where we got the youth from agriculture. So the plan is for them to be trained. We've trained them already and they're working with the farmers, learning all the indigenous knowledge that comes from them because trust me, they are the working dictionaries of agriculture. And I always feel like we're missing out a lot because not capturing those, you know, we need to do something in the near future but it's something maybe I will do the next five years, I don't know. But then at this stage what they do, they're learning so much and that's starting to love it because you get on site and then the go-go's are working so hard and you're being lazy and they'll call out to you to say, hey, wake up, what are you doing here? And the other thing is the fact that the Department of Agriculture is paying them and it's quite a reasonable amount that they get paid. So, and that graduates most of them from universities and they come up with all the technical knowledge and all the skills that they've learned in universities. So now if you take the indigenous knowledge from the go-go's then you put it together with this, that a graduate. What we get from there, it's kind of like amazing. And the other things now, you always need to try and balance the two because you know how it's always been that this is how we did it in the old days. Oh no, but now this is how we do it but it's working efficiently and we've seen positive results from the partnership working with both youth and old families. Yeah. I also like the approach that your organization has taken, right. We have a demerit system of some sort where farmers use chemicals, right. So how is it that you're managing maybe certain pests and diseases? I mean, now we've reached the raining season. You said you're in the Port Shipson area. Also that's quite a humid area, moist area. So how are you dealing with pests and diseases in climates where, you know, we have rainy season, et cetera. Okay. One thing that we need to take note of is that we should stop this perception that you will buy spinach from January to January throughout the year. We need to plant according to seasonality. That's number one. Number two, we always ensure that when, before we plant, do we ensure that the soil is well fertile using non-chemical products like your coal manure, grass, all the waste that comes from your house. So we must prepare the soil according before start planting and you need to practice intercropping and you need to ensure that your plants, in fact, our farmers say, you need to love your garden so that you can get the best yield. If you're just doing it because you're just working, it's not going to work. But we also use things like garlic sprays where you mix garlic with onion, but I'm not going to go to detail to that because you also offer external training which is secreted and then you can learn more about that. And of course, as a method that we use, which are very effective and they don't require you to use any chemicals in the plant. This is fantastic. Tell us about the type of vegetables that the farmers are growing. Okay, we get a lot of spinach, carrots, and herbs. Oh my God, you know, when you walk into a storeroom and then you smell those herbs, you just want to make a test for immediately. Your cabbage leaves, beetroot, green peppers, cucumbers, or you have the best bananas, as I've told you, and the best avocados ever in case of it. But then this is endless. We grow a lot of things and we keep on trying new crops that we know that are in demand because what we do, we try to link the product, like the production to the market. So if we fill it up, okay, sometimes we'll get up at, I've had cages of spinach in one week and everybody's got spinach. So we're teaching our farmers on how to kind of like grow those crops that are in demand, like your green peppers. Not easy to grow green peppers, let alone red and yellow because you have to wait for the green to change to yellow, then you must change to red. So instead of selling that green and get your money, you have to wait another two months for that to happen. So we teach them the importance of maximizing that profit. And for them not to only grow because they want to earn income now, but to teach them that, you know, if you grow and then you patient, you will get better income than as opposed to just growing to make some money. I'm hearing two folks, right? There's a group of farmers that you've selected the 20 who's growing this aloe plant. And then the rest of the farmers who are just part of the program under Siabona, they're growing various vegetables, right? A selection of vegetable crops. Now, focusing on those that are growing a selection of crops, right? Of the vegetables. Where are you taking those produce to? Have you found markets for the farmers? Or are they selling in between communities? Okay, this is one of our strengths and I would also say our weakness. So in the model, when we started this whole project, the unique thing about us is that we gave farmers a currency market. I know. So what they do, they grow. Whatever you grow, you must eat first. And then after you've eaten and shared with the family, you can sell to your neighbors and then your excess should not go to waste. So you can take your excess and sell it to us. So farmers know that on Mondays, where in this currency hole, they must bring their produce and so forth. In fact, they even call us at 8 a.m. because they know on Monday, I don't have to water but 8 a.m. in milk. I'll just have this. I'll take it to Siabona and then Siabona will pay me on the spot. So what we do, we supply the hospitality industry in the South Coast, your big restaurants here. And then there's a village where it's kind of like a home for elderly people. That's our big market. We used to sell a lot of our produce to your niche markets in Onglanga, Pine Town, to the organic shops. But since COVID, we really slowed down a little bit. We've had to slow down on that a little bit. But now we mainly selling on those kind of like customers at the moment. So they have a guaranteed market. So what happens with our goggles now, what they do, they will grow, they will eat. They won't bother to sell to their neighbors. They'll wait for several to come and get the produce. So we had to think of how are we going to minimize wasteage? We call them write-offs. How are we going to minimize this? Because we'd find that in a month, we'll collect produce worth to the rate of like 25,000 Rai. And then we will be able to sell the produce like to the rate of 15,000. And so at 10,000 Rai, it does not really go twice because we make compost and we sell it, but we can't do something else. Hence we came up with the vegetable grind system to sell whatever we collect and then we sell the product that was not sold, we will dry it. And then with dry vegetables, there's a 10-year shelf life. And then there's a lot of demand on that, but it's still in the phase where we need to market it properly for us to be able to sell it to other markets. That's fantastic. And when the farmers sell to Seavona, how are you hedging the prices? Are you looking at market prices or do you just decide, okay, with your clients, this is how much they're going to get the cabbage for, et cetera. Okay, so the other component that I didn't mention is that we have farmer association meetings with farmers in their communities. So what we do, as much as it's not fair to us, but it's the only way that we can do it now. So we do price benchmarking with Woolworth, you can pay your spa and your checkers. And then we kind of like come up with the average price of that product from the benchmarking. And then on those one association meetings, we share the price list with them. And you'll be surprised that some will say, okay, you know what, you're only buying spinach for $1,500, okay, this man, I will keep my spinach because next month you'll be buying it for $20. So we communicate with them because we're only saying with our farmers, we need to learn to move at their pace. And we need to show that we teach them about business. So we've done a lot of trainings on basic business management skills and stuff where we use kind of like, we will use things instead of like use numbers and stuff and bought them and all the concepts. So let's say we'll take eggs and then we'll do the counting to teach them, this is what it means, kind of things, practical things, not theoretical. So they know the price beforehand and it's up to them to decide if I want to have this and sell it or if maybe I want to keep it for myself or if maybe I will wait for the following month, maybe the price will be better. Mm, fantastic. And tell me, how are you dealing with your post harvesting? You mentioned that, you know, the annual product, it has, there's a short time span from post harvest to getting it to the cold room. So, and if, I don't know, maybe explain to us how far your storage area is to where the farmers are farming and how are you managing that post harvest cold chain? Okay, the barbine, it needs to get to an important 48 hours from the South Coast. So we have not harvested yet. So our first harvest is expected on the 10th of January, but we're working hand in hand with Botanica. So the plan is for us to take it to King Shaka and then from King Shaka to Limpopo and then from Limpopo to all these. We've done the logistical and do the method and see if it's going to work. But what it means, it means that we will need to employ more temporal staff to do the harvesting. So because we need to be quick with that. So the project does not only assist the elderly farmers with income, but also because they are part of this one we're planting, we've employed a number of local youth that are unemployed in the community to help us planting that's what we'll do on our harvest. So what are some of the success stories that you have seen or heard on the ground since you have engaged as Yavuna with the farming communities? We have one farmer, which I really admire. Her name is Mrs. Kumalo, we call him Mrs. Kumalo in Danganya. We work as far as from the ultra-state. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the South Coast, but there's an ultra-state which is about 38 kilometers from Devon. So what she did, she used to work in the corporate business and she said she was so unhappy and then she resigned and then she heard about Yavuna and then she came and then we trained her, we mentored her, we reported things and then she said, okay, I like it and I can see that I'm good at this, but I'm so innovative. I'm not just going to grow and sell the product to you, I want to do something else. So she started her own beetroot wine, which most people know about, she marketed very well. It has very good benefits for males and yes, as women you can drink it, but it's also good when you have your low kind of flat iron because not just good for iron and other benefits that you get, but mainly for men in the bedroom, it's very good for them and they buy it a lot. She sells it and takes it right and, and, and, and, and but she has taken it to a place where before COVID she was in a process of exporting her beetroot wine. Wow. Wow. And then, and how, and how many haters is she cultivating a beetroot wine? So what she did is because she has a small, a small part in her guidance. So she kind of like assisted her because still supported. So the farmers in her community grow for her and then she buys it from her and then she makes a beetroot wine. Right. So as Siobhune in this case, this is such a fantastic story. As Siobhune in this case, so you assisting her with regards to the mentoring, maybe doing a business planning I suppose so that she could export, is that correct? The export she did it herself, but we really helped her with marketing the product and also really assisted her with business management skill and how she can optimize the space that she has in her guidance to be able to supply her beetroot wine throughout the year. Right. So what are the other requirements of working with farmers? I mean, there might be people listening to this podcast and are thinking, I've got family in and around these areas that you've mentioned. I want them to get onto Siobhune. So how does a farmer get onto the programs that you guys have started? Okay. Unfortunately at this stage, we don't take new farmers because to date we've trained more than 2,000 farmers. So what we did in 2016, we said, okay, we have this model. It's working farmers are passionate about farming, but we cannot just keep on doing what we do, right? So when we started with the value chain, instead we said, okay, we're not going to take in new farmers. We want to ensure that the existing farmers are sustainable enough before we open up the program to other areas. That is most likely to happen in 2024. But if you want to be taught on organic farming, the chemical free farming, we do offer external training at a reasonable fee. We, the mother will come to email me or call us and then we'll give you a quotation and then that works. And if you want mentorship, you can also engage with your daughter to say, how can we mentor you and how would we do it? We've done that a lot and people continue growing after we've trained them. Fantastic. Would the training be based only in case it in? Or would you be training people like myself, Ombali, Apehauteng, and who want to learn about growing aloe from an indigenous perspective and other crops to farm where indigenous farming is concerned? We would train you anyway in South Africa, but just keep in mind that there will be a cost for travel. Oh. Business at the end of the day, it is business at the end of the day. It's our own income. And it's your IP as well. So maybe, O'Ola, I mean, how did you get into this farming space? You know, what were you doing before and how has your life changed now that you've become the executive director of Sevuna? Oh, my goodness. Okay. I used to work for a bank, you know, F&B. I was a consulting, you know, you get paid on commissions. So you go home, you've made this much, this much sales for a day, and you go home before you go to sleep with things. I don't know that customer. I know she cannot afford to pay back this loan. And instead of you celebrating achievement for the day, you keep on constantly worrying about your customers. So when I joined Sevuna, I had kind of like minimal knowledge about the NGO sector. But when I joined Sevuna, it became my life because I live, I breathe Sevuna. And the fact that every day, regardless of how tired I am, how stressed I am because of funding, like today, you do your budget and stuff and you see how things don't add up. And then you realize that at least it's worth it because I know that indirectly I've managed to put a plate in front of 2,800 families. You know, for me, that is fulfilling. I wouldn't want to do anything else. It's a lifetime achievement, very, very rewarding. This has been fantastic conversation, Okola. But before I let you go, I really want to find out as well how are the farmers receiving Sevuna, you know, because you've come in there, you've shown them how to run small enterprises in their backyards. You've shown them the importance of growing their own food, feeding themselves, right? As much as these are elderly individuals, you know, between the ages of 50 and 60, et cetera, but you've shown them the importance of growing their own food, feeding themselves and also finding the market and expanding their knowledge to say, you could sell this. I mean, today now you have a beetroot farmer who has processed it into wine, who would have thought and now is looking at export. So when other farmers are looking at this lady, are they enticed to also develop their own products? And so yeah, how has the reception from the farmers been with Sevuna assisting them in their small holdings? You know, it has been amazing. Mrs. Kumar is just one of the, it's just one of our success stories. We have farmers who directly supply spa because they said, okay, Sevuna, you've trained us, we're happy, but you know, we're not really happy about the prices because they're the middleman. So we want to supply the distributed directly. So we have farmers who just grow whom we train. Do we just give them mentorship and they attain pharmaceutical meetings? They renew their pitches, but don't sell to us. They have their own markets. We also have AgriHabs, which are co-ops. We have two of those in that group. They grow their own, like they'll say, okay, we're not growing beetroot because not selling, we'll only grow ABCND. They come up with their own prices. They sell to their own markets. Though sometimes they compete with us, but you know, that's developing for you. But in a way, after 12 years of existence, in the 10th year, we started to see the results of our with the farmers. And this is one thing that we always teach our funders because they're an NGO and then you get funders who give you funding for three years. And then they expect to see a farmer from point A to Z in three years. And you always teach them, you need to move with the farmer's pace. So in the farmer's pace, don't push them because when you start pushing, it's not going to work. So you need to engage, you need to listen and you need to negotiate where it's necessary. But at the end of the day, like farmers are adults. They know what they want and they have the knowledge to do what they do. You just need to move at their pace. Wow, my last question for this evening, I think I could keep them going quite honestly is that what is next for Siobhuna in 2022? So what work can we see from your organization for 2022? Okay, so 2021 has been a very challenging year for us with this whole implementation of the bar buying projects. So in 2022, we're looking at developing federally-drying, the vegetable drying project. But in 2023, we will be scaling to another community with another five hectares so that we'll be able to achieve the 10 hectares projection that we want to, again, depending on funding being available. Yeah, thank you so much, Okola. I think you're such a fantastic individual. I can see you're loving the farming space. Thank God you've left your corporate job to assist some farmers because agriculture is the way of life and agriculture can feed so many people and it's important to obviously make our rural communities food secure. So I really hope that in the work that you're doing, you're attracting more youth and that they actually see the potential from this. And most importantly, let's take this lady, for example, who's making beetroot wine. I hope that the youth that are training are actually seeing the opportunities that the agriculture sector possesses. But thank you so much for your time this evening. We thoroughly appreciate it. Thank you so much, Mbali. And you're most welcome to visit our website. It's www.siavuna.rg.za. And please go and like our Facebook page. It's called Siavuna with the K. We stand for our brand, Gumnandi. We will engage further on those platforms. Thank you. That is fantastic. Well, you heard it directly from Okola Mkwena and she's the executive director of Siavuna based all the way in KZN, helping all have trained thus far close to 2,000 farmers in a space of 12 years. And it takes quite a long time to train and develop and to constantly show farmers the importance of farming, growing their own food, being sustainable. And sustainable being, in this case, growing their own food and having food in their own homes instead of trying to seek for jobs to purchase that food. And obviously, they're reducing their monthly spend and that money that they're currently spending in their households can go to other important expenses. But where food is concerned, they've got it covered because this is what Siavuna has shown to the rural communities. And I think my takeaways from this organization, from this organization as well as this conversation as well is that it's very important to have public-private partnerships involve communities. And my biggest takeaway as well is that she says, companies who are working with NGOs, companies who are working with rural small-scale farmers or communities go at the pace of the farmer, because agriculture is quite difficult and it's seasonal as well. So you have to go with the pace of the farmer because the farmer knows what they're doing at the end of the day. So if you need to reach out to us to Siavuna, she mentioned the website that you could go to and she also mentioned that you could follow them on Facebook, so reach out to them and contact them as well. So thank you so much for joining us. I look forward to seeing you next week on another special episode of The Farming Podcast. Take care.