 We are live except oh no, we're not we're recording right now Well, we are recording. I just yeah, we're live wait with Okay It's what 11 to November 2nd already Wow So We've been working away on getting the skills into their individual shapes And we're starting to think about the skill interaction stuff and Along the way we've noticed that our Wi-Fi setup process Which we've known for a while is is a little buggy Wasn't wasn't really finished, but we thought it was good enough turns out. It's not good enough So we're gonna take a step back and make that actually work properly. So that's kind of where I see you see us overall right now in the meantime, I believe we've started to solicit feedback from the community about at least some elements of the skill interaction Thoughts that we're we're having and So looking forward to that Well, actually I've already seen some of the feedback on Derek's videos. So that's good and We will I think we'll keep producing videos like that in terms of you know Setting expectations for what how we want the system to work There's also some additional Documentation that we're working on I don't know where we are in the process of sharing that with the community But we've got some some ideas about how to Start to add a little bit more formality to the message-dress messages and the things that are happening within the system So that it's a little bit more Easy to monitor and keep track of what's going on Example that we went over in Hawaii to that document just to have something How it works and then we'll probably be able to pass it on the community. Okay good Yeah, so and just in terms of like high level where are we I think I think that's it And so why don't you guys take it away in terms of individual statuses? Ah Chris go ahead. I'm the only one not muted. So yeah, sure. Um Today I was a little bit of everything. I had an interview with the candidate. I Responded to some PR Comments gas had on my latest PR for the GUI for the Wi-Fi skill and I Fixed I've already just met a PR that fixes the skill date On the Device when you when you have a dev kit my new methodology is I found out that the Mycroft skills repo is actually checked out on the device MSM uses it I've checked out cloned on the device and I found where it is and I'm using Get logs to find the most recent commit on that dirt on that repository and Get the time out for that and then that's the time Okay, that'll be great at least to determine a stick Yes, everything should be the same for everybody this way So yeah, I will submit that PR today and it's only a few lines of code So guys of you I'll probably Throw that your way if you look at it tonight pretty straightforward that was it tomorrow and Tomorrow I'm gonna get back to working on that document. We want to share the community about the organizing the code And then hopefully get going through with that and then a day or two and we'll be able to share that out and I'll start working on that Okay, great Ken. Oh wait, no, sorry, sorry Ken Derek. I forgot Derrick's Yeah, okay So yeah, on the software side we you know, we met with Lucissus this morning or we sink There's a couple things where there's at least one thing there and you take a look at this The load there's a loading animation Kind of issue where we've got all different types of loading animations. We've created through getting it. It's kind of confusing So I was gonna create the ideal You know what we'd like to see and see if they can help us get that sorted out Let's see I did do I had an issue where weather does not seem to be working on my device So I log a bug on that It's not on the home screen and it's does not No intense pick up whether it just goes straight to Wikipedia and gives you the definition of weather so something's going on there The The other thing that I saw in a couple things in the chair that I need to do I would Like to split out the mute functionality, I think into its own ticket I think Michael suggests to maybe doing that for the home screen Just so that we can You know, it's got a couple things I'd like to do with it, you know, I'd like you know, for example the LEDs to show Something as well as on the screen But we've talked about this new edge, you know, both Chris mentioned this to the new edge illumination concept being a good consistent way to show that as well So I think there's just enough there that we could just maybe split it off to its own ticket Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Just read a note that we're changing the scope of you know a comment in that ticket where yeah, you know signing off on splitting the new functionality into a new new task and Then of course, there's the big Wi-Fi process That I actually have just read I don't know you work on it. Yeah, but I know that's that's gonna take some some thinking In terms of the UI the gooey side But yeah, mostly today is still kind of working on hardware stuff Kind of unpacking we had a meeting Aztec last night and so I unpacking Some stuff from that meeting and and starting to plan Did I miss something on the Wi-Fi skill? Why are we changing that UI design Well, these would be things that we're we would need to add based on our conversation At the summit so things like oh, okay, what happens when connectivity is lost what happens? Okay when You know things like that like so this would be new stuff. Okay, that makes more sense. Thank you. Yeah You've got everything in there that was currently defined. So So yeah, a lot a lot of hardware stuff today, but that's been good. We're getting some plans laid out for that All right, cool. All right, Ken So, Michael, did you see you were called out in the dev channel? There's some feedback for you in there Oh, let's check it out So I was working on the NTP stuff and I was in the enclosure. I was actually moving the enclosure up so that it comes up right after the bus But there's really no way to synchronize that because there's services right now But anyway, I tried to change the date And realize that you can't change the date or time on the mark to I suspect container permission issues So I've reached out Panicor on that I'm Trying to switch networks from our container using the debuffs. I realized I'm gonna have to replicate the whole access point stuff. So I've been working on figuring out how to I mean, I it's pretty easy to get the access point up and everything but Figuring out how to get the login profile set up so it fits out each TML and you hit it with Not any authentication and that kind of stuff. That's where I was at and then that was like the first half of the day and then Yeah All right, so who hasn't done status yet there I went first Yes, I did a hell of a lot of translation stuff. So apologies to everyone's inboxes and courtesy of Goldifruit Who does some excellent Docker? Images of my craft He did sir. He was doing some benchmarking of the Yobos precise light plug-in against, you know precise you know standard and You know as you expect it's it's Significantly low resource. So I asked him to do the same for for the for the my craft one Which you know, he didn't know about because we haven't really told many people about it And what became apparent there is that Yeah, as I said in the chat like where we're starting off at like, you know, super low like 8% CPU usage But it's just like slowly creeping up over the course of the first 30 40 minutes and Which makes sense as to why the the service eventually just crashes because it's you know eating too much stuff and Can't handle it. So there's something in there that's You know some reinforcement loop that's Out of hand that we need to find and and nicks So yes We can either do that or we can Which seems like it still seems like a better approach to To only run the TF light runtime as Ken, you know Did all the work on on doing that Rather than, you know, the the OVOS way is to have like the the precise traditional method of having the separate runner and and everything So this should theoretically be be even leaner, but I'm gonna wait and see. Yeah, we've got a memory or a process leak or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, okay Yeah, I suspect the memory leak. I'll get to that one Other than that just lots of lots of things Yeah, I am trying to to use the new PR processing project board public project board and push that out to some of the community channels to To let people have a look at that We have a lot of outstanding PRs in Microsoft, so It's no small feat to like Try and get that backlog down But yeah, the hope is that this will particularly for things that are like current and ready to actually merge that they won't slip through the cracks and disappear that will kind of keep on top of the front of the queue and clearing that out, you know reduces noise and hopefully that aids processing of the remainder of the queue as well Yeah, we'll take a Yeah, we need to keep on top of that. This is kind of a new process for us. So Definitely want to get better at Setting the expectations with the community about, you know, what we're working on what our priorities are you know and and Where we're looking for help and you know and where we're not looking for help, frankly, you know There's there's I think that you know the the plug-in process that was started a few years ago I think is something that we definitely want to need to build on and and I think that, you know We want to move in a direction where You know a lot of the things I think that, you know, some of our community members want to contribute Maybe don't belong in core, right? Maybe they belong in a plug-in and you know, if the architecture doesn't support the right kind of plug-in for those things then Then that's what I would rather work on rather than Try to build more functionality in the core that's not necessarily You know, if it's not necessarily where that should go. Yeah, so in my opinion core is already, you know, kind of a nightmare and You know, we've had plans for you know a year and a half to Untangle some of that mess, but we just frankly have we just barely That are preventing us from accepting PRs in a timely way, but But you know, I'm adamant to be frank that we're not just going to accept all PRs because it creates a you know a bigger test burden on us and it creates You know uncertainty around you know performance and things like that so You know, we need to be pretty measured about how we accept certain kinds of submissions at this point Because we're trying to take my crop from a place where it's you know, it's a great Development tool and lots of people use it to something that is production ready and it's a whole different set of requirements so You know, so We can't just accept everything without without a fair bit of scrutiny, so Communicate that message through the forums recently as well Certain things but you know particularly if it like you know, there's a The XDG Skills PR, you know, there's some more stuff that needs to happen to make Microskills kit use XDG paths for example and Yeah, like I still believe that you know becoming XDG compatible is good for the long-term prospects of my crops across different things But it it doesn't and that was already happening there. We shouldn't be leave that half done We shouldn't yeah. Yeah, we want to follow through with that if we started close that out for sure Yeah, it's just you know spending time working on Us working on MSK improvements to make XDG work does not in any way get us towards the mark to shipping so So yeah, they communicated that and hopefully a good way and Yeah, hopefully we we can get that moving with some community with some more community support We'll see yeah, exactly Yeah, I mean if it weren't for the pandemic, I think we would have had a completely different Forum experience. This is something that we've we wanted to do last year and again this year, but It's just not possible to get everybody together for you know a convention style Meetup and and hash out a lot of these issues, which you know internally we've found to be extremely valuable even just with our small team So I think you know I'm I'm trying to think about you know, when's the right time to To have something like that even if it's just a virtual event. Yeah, that's useful. Yeah, totally All right Well any other news people want to share? All right Well, let's make sure we are very clear with our communication on the Wi-Fi stuff You know we did spend a lot of time hashing out through requirements and making sure that You know we can have a well-defined boot-up sequence and And from there it will it will be a lot easier to define Once that's working it'll be a lot easier for us to define what happens when we lose connectivity because we'll have you know We'll have a well-defined system for Responding to connectivity loss internet loss You know and and from there we can you know add in the the paths we need to Trigger like changing Wi-Fi networks or whatever if we want to go that way So let's let's be clear on communicating communicating that over to panic or and You know, we need to measure measured way, but you know his document, right? What's that? Which is simply Chris V? Providing them with his document, correct? Yeah, but I think we need to engage in a dialogue with them as well The document will define will define the steps as all it does. So, yeah, we're you know, I'm sure I will be some Some further communication need to happen after they read that and try to get digested Yeah, I mean there's there's what we need on our side in order to get things to work But then there's the okay Well, how are we gonna implement it if they were gonna implement a message bus thing that would just send us the specific messages We require then we'd be done right And the document assumes that there's a message bus being used on their side, right? So, you know, if they if they can't go that way or are willing to for whatever reason then, you know We need to figure out. Okay. What's the implementation path? Is it building a translator for the D bus over to the message bus on our side? You know, how do we solve Ken's NTP? You know time-setting problem things like that. So So I think we should talk through the whole process with them maybe we even need to set up a Conference call to go over the document after they've had a couple days to look over it I was kind of hoping it would just be you know Here's a here's a set of requirements throw it over the wall and it magically happens, you know But if it's not that then let's get together and instead of you know going back and forth with you know Text messages are you know in my opinion a terrible way to communicate Most things So let's get together and have a face-to-face, you know After they've had a chance to you know digest the document so All right, so Chris you're gonna take a lead on that I'll lead on which I am digging lead on getting the document to them Yeah, and set up a communication because it's really between you and Ken and them Yeah, all right cool And Yeah, and if we do you know if we do these one step at a time it should be pretty straightforward and shouldn't you know, hopefully it will not You know we won't be tripping over ourselves as we do it so All right, thanks guys One other thing real quick I wanted to know if I want another minor version of core Oh, okay Mostly because there's a bunch of testy stuff in there that is going to start holding up a lot of our skill work From making it into the marketplace, which it should be getting its way into for too long So any I know I know I just when I say that I feel back if I say that I'm basically putting the hours of work on Gaza's plate, but I I Do think we're at a point now. It's probably worth doing so we don't hold up all this stuff Getting in the marketplace Anybody else have any thoughts on that? Well, my my thought is if you have specific things that are being held up You know that need to get out to the mark twos then absolutely we should do that But you know, I don't think we should do it just because Maybe sometime in the future it'll be useful, you know, so I'm not sure where exactly you're at It will like it is you know because There to get things in the marketplace they need to pass all the all the testing and so because these test steps aren't available in In production my craft then they won't pass and therefore they you know If we put them in a marketplace, then everything will just fail forever more Yeah, I think I think it is a good thing to do Is there anything else is it particularly VK wise that we're thinking will be like that we have on the carts because if there Is anything else we Should try and get that in before we cut the release. I haven't touched VK since our we finished our skill sprint I don't anything There's nothing else that's glaringly Breaking or you know in need I think I can think of but I also think we'll have you know, we'll have a major revision here soon and So maybe you should just go yeah, but I think if someone else comes up, maybe we just you know draw a line in the same Yeah Yeah Cool, okay So new new minor release eminence them. Yep Okay, they'll tell me more stuff in there and just to speak a stuff because there have been things committed to them, but oh Yeah I might do I might get the mark twos updated to 21 Dot two dot one proper before we do that So we can all test it. Yeah, and so that way we can we can Get back to at least you know pegging the stable releases But yeah, I'll add a ticket to cut a new minor release All right, cool. Well then All right, it just occurs to me that the ticket I've got assigned to can maybe you should be reassigned at Chris if he's I think I misunderstood who was in contact with Pantacore Regarding the the Wi-Fi changes so If you guys sort that out Well, it sounds like I've done I'm defining them and Ken's implementing them. What kind of what it sounds like right now. Oh well Well, yeah, exactly. We have have the super high-level vision of what we're looking for It's really simple I mean that the high-level vision is very simple. We we have a well-defined signal that does not report that The internet is available until The internet has actually been reached and the time has been synchronized using NTP. Yeah, that's it But so, you know, what would the what is the on-screen experience look like? if the Yeah, anyway, because there's the there's the whole like on-screen Wi-Fi selection, you know Stuff all that seems fine. There was a couple little tweaks we wanted to make Just in terms of the user experience like the user not knowing like oh well You know when you when you type in your SSID you select an SSID and you put in your password It just kind of goes dark and doesn't tell you what's happening after that like that's a little tweaks Yeah, you're talking about the instructional UI like there is it there is also an entire UI for like Wi-Fi network management like on the screen and You know, I mean on the wait on the mark to screen or on the on the mark to screen Yeah, we should probably talk about this and get it out what Derek was talking about so Yeah, it's two ways Connect right there's the way we do it now and then there's a way you could do it using the soft keyboard and so Derek had the grand vision of Merging them and incorporating them somehow And somehow that's crept into this discussion No, that's not part of this discussion. Well, that's that's what I'm saying is like, you know I that is not part of the discussion as far as I'm I'm aware That's I agree right so then if that's not part of the discussion, what do we discuss what we're discussing is the ability to recover From network failures. That's step two step step one Is to be able to know where we are in our network establishment process so we can order our boot sequence Way we want right then step to deal with connectivity loss. Yeah, in other words recovery from fatal Correct. So that's it from a high level. There's step one step. That's what we're trying to accomplish step three problem So all right Well and step four step three step something step n plus one is You know is where I see this the on-screen stuff coming back in is like Where you know imagine I'm connected to a network and I want to change networks Like, you know, what do I do? do I that's That's part of that's that will be handled as part of the I lost my internet connection. That's that's defined in the same ticket Well, I Mean Yes, they are different. They're different functional requirements, but they rely on the same Underlying processes. So maybe we could split it into two tickets, but it's in the ticket right now as I defined it Well, you know, you lose if the user can Choose a new Wire wireless network because they lost the old network then why not let them choose a new wireless network because they want to right? So they're they're both both of those functions are defined in there Just we don't want to get into a tail chasing where we say well We're in step two and we could solve that here, but let's not because in step four. We're gonna solve that No, and I definitely don't want to I'm definitely not saying that I'm like I'm saying the step four is is Next project in the future like step one. Yeah, I mean other important right now Yeah, and they're those those are ones that are necessary just for the basic user experience, right? Yeah, if we had an on-screen display and you didn't have to use your phone to Typing your SSID and password and stuff that'd be a better experience on the mark, too, but it's not a scalable you know and You know for devices that for example don't have a display and so we're just you know, we're trying to solve You know the more general problem first Right, and I think it's all began because of Derek's input regarding well What happens after I push connect on my phone? Because when we were out there doing the focus groups, it was clear that people were lost They didn't know if something else was being expected of them Whether they needed to do something else whether it worked or whether it didn't how did they know if it worked It didn't and so then what happened was that was this intermediate Status messages during that process that were defined that would enable us Give better messaging to the user during that process. That's how this all got kicked off Well, and right and also correct the error that was preventing them from actually, you know getting to the next step You know So, you know looking at your mark to and saying well, I don't know it doesn't seem to be doing anything I guess I'll power cycle it and then hey it magically works. That's a crappy user experience So, you know, yeah, I guess I'm just flagging this, you know Step four and beyond stuff because like that's already been communicated to Pentacore as well And so like if we're then coming to them talking about Wi-Fi management Without the context of the other stuff, then they might also be like what the hell are you guys talking about you told us something completely different before you know Yeah, this is this is not this has nothing to do with on-screen Wi-Fi setup stuff at all so and in fact it in you know In the perfect world for me It wouldn't even be It was certainly wouldn't be implemented through, you know the pull-down menu as it is right now It would be actually just through the skill and be a skill graphical interface for that But we'll get there later like I think you know the thing that we talked about I mean originally it just showed up on boot and like it had the Wi-Fi setup You know on the screen I know but I think I think we should be able to boot all the way up into Running on the device without Wi-Fi at all even if you require Wi-Fi for TTS like the device should boot and at least tell you Hey, I need a Wi-Fi, right? There's no reason why it should go into like a weird state. It should just be you know Should be interactive in some way And so we should be able to use skills and things like that to do things like set up your Wi-Fi and whatnot Now I don't want to re-implement the AW Connect just to do it For now, but you know ultimately we kind of we we already have that because we We boot the entire system and then run the Wi-Fi Connect skill Okay, show the instructions. So like Yeah, well, we should be able to do that without errors getting thrown. Yes Yeah, you know Without the TTS engine, you know throwing up all over the place because like it doesn't have an internet connection Whatever so anyway, we'll get there Okay, I think we've beaten this horse to death So Chris you're gonna get in touch with Panicor and we'll chat tomorrow. Maybe they can deal with it tonight. All right, all right