 So John Fiennes and his wife recently uploaded a more in-depth explanation as to why they've chosen to view animals as a resource instead of individuals worthy of our respect. It's a painful video so I'm not going to put you through the whole thing but there are some points that need to be addressed so that people don't get the idea that what they're doing is morally acceptable. Of course we're not here to try and justify ourselves because we know that there's so many people who are just trying to twist and turn everything we say no matter what. Well I think it's important that when you're making moral decisions that involve direct victims a justification is a hundred percent necessary. The hatred out there right now on the being community towards us is just insane and I think it has a little bit to do with the current climate of the world. Actually I think it has more to do with the fact that you've chosen to intentionally abuse and murder animals. They don't understand what's going on we haven't really you know shared anything personal so it's all speculation and we don't want you guys to think that we are some sort of monsters. Well I don't think it's all speculation I mean what you're about to tell us about your new enthusiasm for hunting animals would in fact make you a monster especially through the eyes of the deer. This is a conscious decision that we made for our family because we truly believe that a vegan lifestyle sometimes is not optimal for everyone. Here it goes again with the optimal diet and nonsense and check out my video with Dr. Garth Davis where we address the health claims in more length. And that is something that you know may or may not be true we're not saying that we own the truth here but we as a family feel that way and we have to do what feels right for us and nobody should have the right to say that that is a wrong thing. We as a family think hunting down defenseless deer feels right for us and no one who cares about animals has the right to tell us that's a wrong thing. Let me put this in a different context I've decided to kill children no one who cares about kids has the right to tell me that this is a wrong thing. I thought I would be vegan for the rest of my life because of the values behind veganism that I really really deeply believe in. I thought I would be against animal abuse for the rest of my life because I thought animal abuse is wrong. It is the fact that it is more challenging and more risky for us we feel to do something that is required more special attention. It's actually challenging and risky to eat a plant-based diet but it's not challenging and risky to go out into the woods with a loaded gun and shoot bullets into deer. We feel like it is the safest option to do what we're doing right now which is incorporating some animal products because you know it the fact is that it's it's more difficult not to. It's so difficult and inconvenient to well plan a diet and supplement where needed but it's not difficult and inconvenient to hunt wild animals for their flesh. We believe there was very very black and white before but the more we understand how it is and how a lot of times it isn't necessary for people to eat those animal products due to many different reasons. It's necessary to eat animal products even though the scientific consensus is on the side of a well-planned plant-based diet. We can't focus on shaming people for being wrong and for being animal abusers and horrible human beings it's just not helpful it's not progressing the human race forward in a good way. We can't shame people for abusing animals we can't shame people for abusing children we can't shame people for being mass murderers in fact we should never shame any immoral behavior but we can shame people for shaming people okay. I'm not here to say that anyone who's eating animal products whether it's factory farmed or horribly sourced are bad people and that they're wrong in doing so well hasn't his tune changed. When you see the cruelty that we're causing these animals there's nothing manly about pushing your power over someone else who is you know incapable of defending themselves. This is the world we live in this is a system in place it's sad it's it's not what we feel comfortable with. Well we can say that the unaware consumer is not as morally culpable as the aware consumer but we can emphatically say that their action of buying those products has grotesque consequences for animals and would make you an animal abuser if you continue to knowingly support these industries. But we don't judge people for the the choices that they're making. We always judge people in every circumstance when it comes to morality I mean who doesn't judge a dog abuser or a child rapist. When my I did my little experiment was oysters, muscles and some eggs. Oysters and muscles are not sentient to the extent that say official cow ears and I know this is a topic of contention but they do have the beginnings of nerve ganglia which is why I avoid them to give them the benefit of the doubt. The egg industry is not ethical no matter which way you look at it you can find my video on backyard eggs here. And then that evolved into wild caught fish. And scientifically proven fish feel pain similar to mammals so to needlessly kill them for food is unethical. And wild caught game. The wild caught euphemistic language is just a deceptive way of explaining murder to lessen the perceived moral impact of what he's doing. Wild caught game is simply innocent animals hunted down and murdered in cold blood. In addition we have switched our perspective on a lot of things to do with the environment and even ethics and we are trying our best to source everything locally. We've basically changed our ethical stance on animal abuse and of course if a farm or slaughterhouse is local to you that completely exonerates you from the enslavement and the murder. We're trying our best to grow our own food now so this is a new journey for us trying to grow our own vegetables berries also foraging in the forest we're gonna when blueberries are in season we're gonna mushrooms and blueberries and a lot of different types of berries as well. It's so great that you're so privileged to work from home and have space and time to be able to have your own food garden and forage for edible berries in your own forest. As well as you know the animal foods being wild caught stuff so stuff from the nature we're in a valley right now with an abundance of deer. Wow it's great to know you have an abundance of wild animals to go out there and slaughter. This is just not practical for the eight billion people on earth it's just selfish privileged nonsense and in no way offers a solution for the world. That there are overpopulated and a lot of fish in the sea and in the rivers and in the mountain waters so that is how we're sourcing our animal products right now. He speaks of there being a lot of fish in the sea like it's in any way sustainable he's promoting seafood consumption which is responsible for the most animal deaths every year one to three trillion and if we keep fishing at this rate we could be looking at fishless oceans by the year 2048 and again dragging a fish out the ocean by their face and suffocating them is comparable to hooking a dog in the face and drowning them. An abundance of deer that are overpopulated. He also spoke of deer being overpopulated like overpopulation is some kind of justification for murder. Bite Size Vegan has a great video on this topic to check out. Hunting is a major cause of deer overpopulation because hunters focus on shooting bucks which skews the ratio of bucks to doe leaving more females for the buck to mate with leading to higher all-round deer numbers. Wildlife agencies make a lot of money from selling hunting licenses so one of the ways they increase this opportunity is by clear cutting forested areas to create habitat ideal for unnaturally increasing deer populations. There's also the insane environmental justification hunters love to use as a way of sounding virtuous that overpopulated deer hurt ecosystems and that's why we should murder them. Well if you already didn't know human beings are the most environmentally destructive animal on earth especially when you take into account our consumption of animals. Animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation, land use, water use, species extinction and ocean dead zones. So hey John should we use the overpopulation environmental argument for murdering humans? Humans cause by far the most damage in the world. Or does this justification only apply to animals because you view them as nothing more than meat machines that are undeserving of moral consideration? What's the excuse? They aren't intelligent like us? Well neither are the mentally handicapped. Is it okay to hunt them? Name the specific trait that makes hunting animals okay but hunting humans immoral. There are of course more ethical solutions we could entertain to control deer like contraceptive programs. And they were overrun with deer and of course the critics are all saying well you might do something with those deer but you certainly aren't going to decrease the number of deer. That's what happened to fawn production over just the first four years. We started this in about 93 or 94. A 60% reduction but you will continue to have a parade of skeptics and critics who come through Pittsburgh and other places and say you can't reduce a deer herd with contraception. That folks is not my opinion that's data. I think we should be more focused on developing these technologies instead of hunting. Not everyone lives in areas where they're able to get local hunted meat or fish and not everyone's going to be able to walk out your door and just go fishing right so that's going to be different for everyone so we're not trying to look down to anyone who's doing things differently we're not judging anyone. So the journey I'm going to take is stalking defenseless animals and shooting them in the heart. So my plan is to become a hunter and hunt you know deer and moose and these things myself and you know we come from a family with a lot of hunters so this is the journey and the path that I'm going to take. My whole family are animal murderers because that's just our journey especially for me as an ethical vegan of five years I think it's really important for me for my personal journey to hunt and kill these animals myself. As an ethical vegan for five years I think it's so important to murder animals myself because I'm not saying that everyone has to kill their own animals if they're going to eat them but that just feels like the path for me and that is something that I've chosen to do and I am looking forward to that experience. There's something about shooting an innocent animal and watching them suffer and bleed out that I'm just really looking forward to. John don't kid yourself you are never an ethical vegan. You know doing something that has been done for hundreds of thousands of millions of years. You know rape slavery and child murder have been happening for thousands of years. I'm looking forward to continuing those outdated barbaric traditions and again we're not saying that this is a sustainable way for the whole world to eat this is just our journey right now. Exactly you see John and his wife aren't thinking of the bigger picture they're looking at this for a completely selfish lens hunting is not practical for eight billion people and completely sustaining yourself from your own food garden is only doable for very few people but what is practical advocating a vegan lifestyle this is achievable it makes the most sense ethically and environmentally. Some of the personal changes that I personally noticed after incorporating more animal products. The reason I started murdering animals again is cramps went away completely cramps so I don't know what it is but it was something in those oysters and eggs that really made my muscle cramps go away. Dr. John Venus says oysters and eggs magically heal cramps and the other difference was the other reason John is gonna start hunting and killing animals is my skin his skin and I personally can see a difference maybe you cannot of course his skin looks so much different here not at all but you know a small cosmetic difference matters more to John than causing the suffering and death of animals I mean just for some backstory this is John when he had bad acne as a meat eater my energy levels you know shot up also my acne cleared up even more and this is him after going vegan on the right because we didn't have any serious health issues there hasn't been a huge change right so here he's admitting there were no serious health issues so basically he's gone back to treating animals like shit for nothing again we're not you know going from one you know extreme mindset to another we're trying to stay open and you know look at things from all angles yeah because hunting down defenseless animals is not extreme right and just staying true to ourselves and how we feel from moment to moment basis I wonder how he'll feel the moment he shoots a deer and leaves her babies without a mother and doing what feels ethical and right for our family does that feel ethical and right for your family what about the dears family fuck them though right yeah and we also think there's like so much we can learn just about the way the world works the way about how the whole food production works there's just so much information and you know you can't be a perfect human not causing any harm or any death to any any animals because you know if you want to survive you are gonna cause that for someone right so I think it's just important to realize that you know no one can be perfect or live in a perfect world without any death or suffering that's just not realistic right so veganism is never claimed to be perfect and just because we cause some amount of harm does that mean we should go out and murder whoever we want this mentality isn't factoring in rights violations everyone seems to understand that premeditated murder of human beings is wrong but when it comes to hunting animals like deer we don't hold the same moral standard plant production is also not perfect and yes you're always going to cause some amount of harm by existing but does that make the act of killing a deer and cold blood morally justified we all know that civilization causes death to humans and animals humans and animals die in construction accidents humans and animals die in road accidents humans and animals are harmed on plant farms I'm not for abolishing plant agriculture letting billions starve I'm not against cars or construction and I'm not in favor of abolishing civilization these industry deaths although they're not ideal and should be improved we recognize the nature of the context as justifiable different to the flat-out premeditated murder of humans or deer and we're not saying that uh we are now you know more ethical than vegans because we're killing less animals but it is a interesting perspective to understand that it is possible even if you eat animals to to kill less lives than if you are 100 vegan well john you haven't established that your diet causes less death give me a calculation that a nutritionally adequate hunting egg eating wild caught fish eaters diet causes less deaths per calorie than a well-planned vegan diet a plant eater is not responsible for every animal killed in a crop we're only responsible for the number of deaths per calorie and the best data we have is this study here where plant foods per million calories cause the least death and this doesn't even factor in the slaughter of dairy cows and the trillions of marine animals murdered every year another point imagine saying hey vegans caused some crop deaths so i'm going to start killing dogs i'll kill less lives kill less lives or hey i'm going to start killing humans i'll kill less lives kill less lives i in no way agree with the position that hunting is the solution imagine scaling this up and trying to feed the entire world of eight billion people hunted game for one it's impossible would still need factory farms to do it would still need to feed them crops and would still be murdering billions of animals we should all know by now most crop deaths are caused by animal agriculture as farmed animals including grass-fed animals are fed harvested hay crops and grain but people just love to compare hunting for flesh to mono cropping for example which is just the false equivalency even though i don't grant that adding hunting and fishing to your lifestyle somehow causes less death than regular veganism let's instead compare to the best case scenario for plants let's say vertical farming or veganically grown potatoes where you'd cause almost zero animal and insect harm peter joseph calculated that if we applied vertical farming to existing agricultural land we could provide enough food for 34 trillion people now we could move towards these more ethical ways of plant farming that cause zero animal death but it can never be ethical to murder an animal against their will if we all like john just threw our entire vegan principle out the window we would never move to a world that views animals with respect if we start advocating and promoting murdering deer and fish we're always going to see animals treated as nothing more than resources now as a vegan animal rights activist who cares about the bigger picture the solution we have for the whole population right now is practically applied veganism we can't all source our dietary needs from backyard gardens veganical vertical farms right now and we definitely don't want to go out and murder random innocent animals veganism is affordable doable and something nearly everyone in the civilized world can achieve we're all just doing what we can what is best for us what is best for everything else and we all all have to make this decision for ourselves to look onward to a better world it won't be the murderous mentality of hunting innocent beings that will get us there it's the principle of veganism and respecting animals that will drive us towards the world we want to see thanks for watching don't listen to john venus and be vegan