 Aloha and welcome to Books, Books, Books. I'm your host, Mihaila Stoops, and my guest is Holly Kellam, the author of Heart of the Butterfly, Yoga Instructor, and also Self-Declared Adventurer. And we're going to learn more about it today. Holly, thank you so much for joining me. Mihaila, it's a very honor and pleasure to meet you. Thank you for having me on the show. You know, I've been wanting to read your book for probably more than a year, and in the end, it seems that the timing was just perfect because a lot of my friends and acquaintances and peers here in Lahaina have recently lost their homes or businesses or some even lost friends and family members. And I see how they struggle to figure out what's next for them. And what I learned from this book that you wrote is that at one point, you also was struggling to figure out what's next, what do you want from life. And I really appreciated the lessons that you had to, that you shared through the book. You did the pilgrimage, the Camino de Santiago pilgrimage, and that provided material for the book. But I also feel that you wrote it for yourself and for an audience. Am I right? You are right. It's kind of interesting that you pick that up because I imagine in my whole life, I've always kind of jotted notes down on a tiny little, you know, just a tiny little notebook. And it helps me to write things down a little bit because it deepens it for me and it really anchors it in. And when I was on the Camino and I was walking, every moment was, there was a special lesson to learn in a way. And they, I found that at the end of the day, things just, they were disappearing so fast. And so I really wanted to capture it. So as I wrote, as I walked, I wrote and pretty soon, it wasn't just at the end of the day, it wasn't enough. So I was actually writing, stopping, walking, writing, stopping, walking, I had a little pocket on the side of my, on the side of my side of my trousers. And so I just put my little notebook there. And literally, it's, I would stop on my tracks and write. So I would never forget some of these lessons and metaphors that were coming in. But at the same time, it really felt like, I just got this, I just got this feeling like, you need to write it, you really need to write and put this together for someone else to read. So I know there are a lot of, at least I learned a lot. You know, I love how you have chapters and every chapter has a very intriguing title. But if there was, you know, one lesson that you wanted to share with somebody right now, the first one that comes to mind, the first 10 bit of an idea, what would that be? Super easy. It's follow your heart. Follow your heart, because sometimes that's not the easiest thing to do. And the heart, the heart speaks to you, it speaks quite often, it'll speak so softly in a whisper. And it wants to guide you in the right way with your best intention or with, with life's best intention for you. But that can be sometimes the trickiest one to follow. Because you have all of these outside influences and voices and pressures on you. And that's, that's where I got stuck. Because I had so many outside pressures. And I was so caught, I couldn't make a decision for myself. My heart the whole time was talking and that was kind of the butterfly. The butterfly is, is, is, is soft. And it wants to, it wants to show you the way. But it's up to us. Speaking of the butterflies, as you're doing the Camino de Santiago, and even before that, in your day to day life, you encounter these images of butterflies that, you know, sometimes they're happy, sometimes they're not. And you're looking at the butterflies as, you know, a special message coming to you. Am I right? That's the, should we look for these messages in our life? Are they there for everybody to see or do you have to be prepared to see that? They're most certainly there for everybody, but they show up in different ways. So for me, it was butterflies. And for you, for example, it might be rainbows, or it might be, it might be bumblebees, or it might be all of a sudden, you hear the words in a song that just make the back of your neck prickle up. And so these symbols or signs, maybe it's a bird that flies by and it's flung by three, you know, three days in a row. Those signs and symbols are, are there for you. And it's just a matter of becoming more aware, I suppose. And no, rainbows for me are really special. And I am privileged because in the rainy season, in Napele, you can almost time it four o'clock, you're going to get to see a rainbow. And it just brings me a lot of comfort when I see a rainbow. It's a confirmation that, you know, everything is going to work out just fine. But interestingly enough, for instance, for the past couple of days, there's a lot of Disney in my life. And that's unusual. And I don't know what to read into it. So that's the part that sometimes I question, are we prepared to see these signs and interpret them or not? I suppose it depends on the feeling that it gives you really. So if you, I would say, if you sit quietly and let your heart speak to you with regard to the Disney that's coming in, is it, you know, is it the monsters that are provoking you? No, it's the sign, the Mickey Mouse with the ears. That's what... Well, yeah, there's many ways, you know, maybe, maybe you're going to have to feel what Mickey Mouse then represents to you. Like, maybe it's calling you to a trip to, to Disney, for example, whether it's Euro Disney or it's Florida or it's LA, maybe it's Tokyo or Paris, you know, you don't know that. But also, Mickey Mouse has been around for a long time and has been a symbol of Walt Disney who started an entire empire just with that little mouse. So I, I worked at Disney and did one of, I did one of my apprenticeships way back a thousand years ago. And it's kind of like you're, you're the house of the mouse. It's called, you know, like when you're working in Walt Disney, but it also represents dreams. So it really, how does that speak to you is, I would say, when you, when you get these kind of symbols, even numbers for many people, like one, one, one, one, or a formulation of ones together is called an angel's number, that you have, there's, there's somebody looking over you like your guardian angel in a way, kind of like the rainbows and everything's going to be all right. So does any of that strike, strike to you, Michaela? Some of it does. Yes, some of it does. And I don't want to, it's going to get too personal if I provide more information. But you know, since we, we talked about an appeal and I know that you have a connection to Maui and, you know, you mentioned you worked for Disney in the past, of course it wasn't in Maui, but so what is your connection to Maui and has this connection kind of helped you figure out where you want to be in life? Yeah, definitely. Maui is we, all of us who have been so fortunate at some point for a small portion or for your entire life, your generations of life have been fortunate enough to call Maui home. We know it's very, very special. And I suppose my connection is that I followed my heart. I never expected when I first landed on Maui, I never expected to live in Hawaii and it really was a dream come true to be able to call Maui home many decades ago. And what she's taught me while I was living there was to open to, to, to my heart, to that connection that we all have the opportunity to connect with whatever you call that connection. And she seems to call me home at particular times, like a spiritual home. And it's that same energy that called me to Maui, that also I would say called me to the Camino as well. There was an undeniable magnetic attraction for me to go to Spain. And I recently, I recently was to Maui and was in Napili, very special place. I lived in Napili while I, while I lived on Maui. And so it, you know, it calls, it calls you. So that connection is the heart connection. It's following the heart. I hope that answers your question. It does. It does. And it kind of, like you said, you felt the similar call, I guess, to start that pilgrimage on the Camino de Santiago. And would you do it again? Has it occurred to you to do that pilgrimage again? Where another pilgrimage may be as a way of, you know, growing spiritually or preparing you for another step, step in life? Definitely. So, yes, I have been back to the Camino a couple times already. I said, yes, I cycled it and walked parts of it. And was it typically easier this time? Oh, you mean like, no bedbugs? Yeah, I haven't had, and knock on wood, I haven't had bedbugs since, since the first time. So that, that was very helpful. Yes, I suppose, you know, in a way, we highlight the pilgrimage is a metaphor for, for life really, also in the fact that we get thrown onto the road of life, very often unprepared. And in, in circumstances that are less than desirable, in circumstances where we don't know which way to go, when we don't feel that we deserve this or why is this happening or it's unfair. And so by following your heart, it, it helps you navigate those really tough, tricky times in life. And so you don't have to go anywhere sometimes to be on a pilgrimage at all. Right now for many, many people on Maui, this is, this is a period in, in life where, as you so rightly said, with so much heart that where do you go? What do you do? And it's, at this point, it's for many people just putting one step in front of the other with faith. And yeah, so it's a growth, it's a growth no matter where you are in the world or in life, it can be a pilgrimage. You're saying it so beautifully, you say life is no dress rehearsal. And I think for me, that's kind of, you know, set the tones like you, we, we all have the opportunity to decide what's next for us. But how do we do it? How do we cut through the noise or eliminate the noise? How do we not get sidetracked by the candy in the store, the shiny candy, right? And I see a lot of the people around me is the amount of information that they have to deal with on a daily basis after the fire and the decisions that they have to make. It's like being in a candy store and you know, sometimes you see a shiny solution over here and you go for it and sometimes there's no solution and you get so dejected and so depressed basically. Yeah. Yeah, life, life is very tricky and the shiny easy solutions are often there for everyone. But again, that's when what is it saying in here? You know, what, what is going to make, what's going to make you proud? What's going to make your children proud? What's going to make your ancestors proud? Sometimes the right way forward isn't the easiest way. Sometimes we really have to ask ourselves, okay, I see the easy way, but is that going to give me growth? And usually, in fact, all the time, we get, we really get what we need rather than what we want. Now that is with, please let me back up a second. I'm saying that from a point of view of something small, with reference to my book. So I would have liked not to get bit by bed bugs, but when I asked myself, what is this teaching me? What can I learn here and how can I grow? It became a little easier to scratch the thousand bites I learned not to scratch, which covered your whole body actually. Yeah. Yeah. And it was for weeks probably, right? It was quite miserable. In fact, it was bites on bites on bites on bites until, until I stopped taking my easy way, which was having a nice little relaxing glass of Spanish red wine, but the universe had a bigger picture in mind. And so when I stopped drinking the wine, the easy way, the shiny way, I was able to come to depth, a deeper, a deeper depth, I was able then to begin to actually really start to listen to, to my heart a little bit more rather than getting distracted by the other factors around. I hope that makes sense. It makes sense. And you know, one thing that really caught my attention when reading your book, you talking about fear and fear of pain. A lot of what we do in our life is for fear of something happening. And that's not following somebody's one's heart. That's responding to, you know, fear or concern. Yeah. So much so. And, but we also, we have to remember it's quite limiting, isn't it? When? Yeah. That means that we always do what we always did. And I love that saying, when you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you'll always got. And so locks us in a pattern. And one thing that I've realized is that our mind is here to keep us safe. And so those things that we always did before did keep us safe, but maybe they don't work for us anymore. And so to step out of the comfort zone, that's when we're knocking on the door of fear and saying, Hey, what's on the other side? I know I myself have this in dealing with the issues in my life. I ask myself, what am I afraid of? And it sounds like such a basic question. But when you start going deeper and deeper, like, Oh, I'm afraid that so-and-so is going to think I'm stupid. Okay, why? Why? Why is that a fear? So what if they think I'm stupid, you know, or, and so on. So you start looking into this and you work it until you come to the real issue. And that's the one you need to resolve. Yeah, that's the gem. Keep drilling down, drilling down, drilling down, because at the heart of it, exactly, it's not what the surface is all about ever. I know we only have a few minutes left. So I do want to ask you, what's next for you? You're working on another book. You're working on another project. What's you, to me, you, you've had this amazing experience. You read and you wrote an amazing book. But what's next? Thank you. So, yes, I am, I am gathering the material and putting together another book. I don't know what it's called yet. I'll be sure to let you know. But I'm pretty sure that Maui in Hawaii are going to be included back in Woven into the next story. I do plan on doing the sister pilgrimage, which is in Japan. And yep, so I'll be, I'll be merrily tripling along on to you in Japan somewhere and seeing what that happens. And, you know, I'm not gonna wear there. Are you gonna wear traditional Japanese outfits and shoes or no? I don't think so. I think I'll stick to my regular walking boots and some easy, easy to wear pants rather than a, rather than a kimono, for sure. Yeah. The lots coming for you, it sounds like in the... Yeah. And, you know, the question about the fear and how it transfixes us sometimes, that paralyzed me. And that was one of the big reasons why I wrote the book was because I figured if someone could have a little bit of a roadmap, that maybe it helps them to come back so that they can make decisions differently or even learn how to make decisions to begin with. If this book can help someone, then that's the biggest reward I can have from this book. And as a result of that, that was the propulsion to take me further into learning, for example, the rules of the minds, how it keeps us safe, why we can't make decisions, why we get locked in fear. So I'm also now assisting others in a therapeutic situation to get back to being able to make decisions for themselves when they're in a tricky situation. And it changed my life, and I hope that it can change other people's too. I'm sure it will. It was, like I said, the timing for it was just amazing because the book has been sitting on my nightstand for a while. And I probably should have read it a lot sooner, but it worked out in the end. And again, I'm very, I'm happy that, not happy, but I'm kind of grateful that you went through what you went through so you could write the book and share it with us and we can read it from the comfort of our home and not have to go through all of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm glad too. And I think, you know, sometimes it's just enough to read somebody else's story because it gives you courage, right? And so you don't have to get bit by bad bugs. You can still have a glass of wine. Right. And read the book and learn the lessons and, you know, try and implement all the things that one learns from the book. But I'm very grateful for you having, making the time to chat with me today. And I'm really looking forward, not only to your next book, but hearing about what happens on the pilgrimage in Japan. And I'm surely looking forward to meeting you in person when you come back to Maui. I can't wait. I can't wait to meet you. And thank you so much for taking the time. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you about the book because it's a beautiful experience to share, to share the heart. So thank you so much, Mihaila. Thank you. Well, I'll be happy to share this with, you know, those that I know. And to our viewers, again, the name of the book is Heart of the Butterfly. It is a really good read. It's comical at times. It's exotic because of the location. And it will help you grow spiritually. That's guaranteed. A hui hou. Mahalo.