 Angie. Thank you. I want to welcome you all. Thank you all for attending this meeting of the Jones Library Building Committee. We are proceeding virtually in accordance with authority granted by the governor during the COVID outbreak, which continues to this day. So, I want to call this meeting to order. I'm going to ask the committee members to signify their attendance vocally when I call your name Sharon here. Thank you, Christine. Here. Alex. Alex. Oh, sorry, I said here. Yeah. And Paul didn't hear you, Paul. Present. Very good. And Austin is also also Austin is also present. Okay, the first order of business is the approval of minutes from the 24th of May. Is there a motion to approve those minutes? I move to approve. Is there a second second. Okay, any corrections to the minutes. Just add an S to the word plants. On the Kinsey garden. It says the Kinsey plant. Okay, with that, with that correction, are we ready to vote, Sharon? Yes. Christine. Yes. Alex. Yes. Paul. Yes. And Austin vote. Yes. Thank you. And thank you to Angie. The next item is a financial update from our finance director. It seems not to be present. So our finance directors and the finance committee meeting and he'll be there probably for he'll jump over when he's finished with that meeting. We sort of split duties today. Okay, so maybe we'll come back to the financial update when Sean joins us. Thank you, Paul. Okay, we have a next item is the update from Colliers. Craig. Thank you, Austin. I'll share my screen. All right, so you should be able to see that now here is the schedule that we've been looking at for the last couple of weeks. We're having a hard time zooming in. But if I could zoom in, it would be clear to see that our red line of, you know, current status has moved into June and that puts us right smack dab in the middle of schematic design. Just as a reminder to everyone schematic design is the time when the design team continues to take in information and incorporate it into the design of the building. And public comment has the most impact. And we're about halfway through that. And so schematic design will wrap up by the end of July. And so that's where we are at present. Great. Let's see. Sorry, flashing back to our agenda. No real update on the interim locations. No new information since our last meeting. And unless there are any questions, I'll turn things back to the chair. So any questions for collars. Craig, if you could take down your screen share that would be. We'll do. Fabulous. So any questions for collars. Okay. And Craig nears, you know, at the work on the schematic design, we will hear from FAA, but the work on the schematic design goes as it should be going. Yes. Fabulous. Okay. So next are the reports from our subcommittees. Christine for the design subcommittee. Okay, we've been busy since our last group meeting here. We met on first May 27. And we got a floor by floor presentation by the designers. And we also updated schematic design. And we also discussed bathroom design, including gender inclusivity options, which on both of those things, they were going to go back from our questions to collect more data and more information and then be ready to bring it to this group, which will be happening today. The second design subcommittee meeting was on June 3. And that was on another issue that the designer needs some decisions from us on regarding exterior materials and design. So they did a presentation to us mostly about siding on the exterior walls, and some on windows and on roofing options. And we discussed that with them. They did have a presentation with some helpful slides that shows some examples of materials and you can find that on the town website under, under the design subcommittee. It's, it's under the June 3. Which you can look at. And so today we have at least two people from find gold Alexander. And because there's some issues that we need to decide on today, or very soon on bathrooms and the exterior materials. So the design subcommittee the next meetings are going to be on the 16th, where we're going to discuss again round two of public comments and pair them and narrow that down so that we can send those and for those to the designer so they can include these ideas and in the schematic design, and then there will be another regular design committee meeting on June 24, Friday at nine that's usual time. So, today, I don't know how you want to do this, Mr chair, but we have two people, they, we, we can turn, you know, however you want to handle it. I think we want to be clear that we are not going to be making any final decisions in this meeting that what we've asked FAA to do, especially with respect to the exterior materials is to give the committee kind of early looks so that members of the committee that were not present for the design committee could weigh in. So Tony, why don't you lead us through what you have to lead us through. I just want to interrupt one more time. So, however, FAA on those, I mean they can set us straight on how quickly they need in, you know, as we grow long schematic design exterior designs and the bathroom designs and there was also an issue about elevators and whether or not we're going to have two elevators or one elevator and the historic aesthetic looks that are, you know, could be a problem with those options so those are the three issues I think they're bringing today. Thank you Christine Tony. Thank you. Actually, but we're going to focus really on today's exterior and we are still working through looking at the elevator. Great, Christine and the, and the bathroom issue. So, I'm going to just lead you through what we had presented with a few additional slides to flush it out. And this of course represents your current library and what we are really trying to be sensitive to is the kind of nature of this library, the beautiful stone cladding material and how in our new design addition can be complimentary to this. So this is by way of jumping off in terms of looking at the palette and the materiality. This was the original rendering that was shown at the schematic level from the front to the same kind of view but seeing the addition that is, you know, I see you can see here not sure if you can see my mouse but it's in this location and the proposed addition and in this instance as shown as brick with a metal roof system. And then the rear rendering where the form of the library steps down in scale as you can see towards the back garden area. Here you can see what is represented here is that we have a, a, what we call a scalping slate base, which is really essentially slate, and then brick above with metal roof and metal formers and then a very series of window wall curtain wall type systems. So what we've actually been able to prepare is a couple of variations on this that we're going to now share with you. So the first variation that we actually were able to advance the rendering view is all brick. So this is now looking at the entire proposed addition in brick including the base and the upper part and that's what you're seeing represented in this rendering. So this is a variation from what you just previously was shown. And then the brick, of course, there's quite a wide range of brick as we know, there's many different color ways. These are just some screen share graphs of some things but we are thinking in terms of the kind of the warm gray tans, like browns which is complimentary to the existing library so that's what you're seeing here in these pictures to the right kind of just some other buildings, how the brick, of course, can vary and have texture and sort of scale. So there's obviously a huge range of brick. This next version here is now looking at an all slate building. And here this is the same sculpt, sculpting what we call sculpting slate and we'll explain that in a minute, which is a slightly different and slightly darker tone against a lighter tone above but this entire wing is an all slate. So what this is, so the type of slate that we are looking at here, this is called sculptings and essentially, like a better word is sort of when they when they cut slate and manufacture and produce it. They actually have leftover scraps that literally like, you know, elements of what you see here is kind of looking like a fairly random pattern of different sizes different shapes but it's cut in such a way that when it's laid up in the, you know, for buildings, it's actually very organized and very tight. So that's the qualities in some ways of almost feel so like features. So that creates variation but they actually in variation, but this is actually how this looks. And just by way of contrast for example this upper portion of this project that we did a tough is also slate, but it's panelized and that's what you see the more traditional kind of blue green range of multiple are used to so this, but what we're really looking at is this, because this is actually more cost effective use of slate in point of fact than this. Okay. Another option we looked at is metal, and we'll explain this a middle so here what we're seeing in the upper part here is a proposed metal siding system which is creating a horizontal relief in detail. It's kind of as a, in some ways as a contemporary not to almost like cardboard siding over a slate base in this case but it could also be over a brick base but this is a change in material here representing metal. And this particular metal actually we did use another library project a few years back in framing them. And it's this portion of that library particular that we're going to draw your attention to because what this product does is it, it's both very sustainable because it's actually highly insulating what you're seeing here in these two versions which has in the yellow color that that's all insulated and also it's it's very efficient very lightweight but very insulated and it comes in larger segments, but then each individual segment has this kind of scale and texture so this actually here is a combination of these two mixing together to create this kind of horizontal relief detail that you see here and this is also something which is a natural finish so it will have an issue of like the paint peeling and other things so it should have a very long lasting life and we also found this would be very economical in terms of what was used here. So, in summation, what we're looking at here and exploring is for options what I will share with you is that we are getting costing estimating done in the variations but we do not have information to share with you today. I mean, they are looking at this. So this in a sense represents four ways but I'm certainly we'd love to hear your at least initial reactions to these different approaches. All right. So, Tony, thank you for, thank you for that. Let's dive in and let's see what people have to say Christine. I don't have a comment yet I just want to clarify what was the first option. Again, was that brick over slate. Yes, this is the original design right here. Thank you. Can you scroll up a little bit Tony see the names. The other way. I'm sorry this way. Yeah I just want to see what the name so it's all slate metal over slate. I see. Thank you. Yes. So, it would be helpful. Yeah, Sharon. I'm sorry. I don't love the all anything. And this is just my opinion and, you know, what difference does my happiness makes sauce to know he says, I don't love the all anything I love the brick over the slate. I'm also interested in a hint of the metal, but I think there's too much metal and the metal over the slate, I wonder what would happen if the, if the metal were on the base, and then you had either the brick or the slate on the top. That's just me. Tony, I think, I think probably what we should do is to get people a comment you collect the comments and then you respond after everybody's kind of weighed in. Sharon, take down your hand if you would. Alex. Thanks. So the original schematic design is cost estimated 100% brick or 100 or brick with the sculpting. And am I correct that brick is the most expensive of the options so an all brick option actually increases our costs as opposed to decreasing our costs. That would be my questions. Okay. Sharon I love you but I very much just like the idea of putting metal sliding on the bottom. It feels very backwards to me you want your foundational materials on the bottom. So to me that seems off balance. You know, I, I'm not necessarily against including the metal. Again, I think the idea was to go for sort of the big house back house little house barn idea. So I don't know to the extent that and we certainly have wood siding on the front of the building. So I'm not sure what that might look like but Okay. I think our next or Paul and then Christine Paul. Thank you. The first question I assume that this is a metal roof continues throughout all of them. So it's a matter of how they interact. I think the second point is these these versions this view is one thing but I'm really interested in how the front view looks because I'd like a really interested knowing how the interaction between the existing building in this. The materials looking we don't have versions of that so that would be interesting for me to see. And thirdly, price sensitive, obviously because I know our pricing is going to be out of whack and we're going to have to cut somewhere and this might be the best one of the best places to do it. And lastly, I sort of find the metal ghastly. So, just when we have these four versions I was sort of, I think I always like to see a differentiation between the foundation, the alleged foundation and they in the rest of the building I think that it makes the building seems smaller in terms of massing. Thank you, Paul is ghastly an architectural term. It is sexy. Okay, good. Thank you. So Christine and then Anika Christine. So I'm wondering cost wise. Well first I want to agree with Sharon that I don't like all anything I do like a mix of textures. I think that would be nice. And I also agree with Paul that, you know, cost and having it look really great but you know thinking what might save us some money. And then slate the sculpture slate and the metal. Is there much of a price difference like meaning if we went with the metal. Is that a savings. If we mixed it with something and the second part is a design thing. You know I know we have the roof, the metal roof which appears gray there and then I'm looking at the fourth option, we have slate on the base, and then the metal. And in this case it looks like a cream or a yellow whatever and I'm just wondering like is that the color that the designers you all were thinking would be the best or are there other colors you're considering. And does the roof also have to be that gray just when you're thinking about colors and what options we have. Thank you. So let's get a Nica in Tony and then if you would respond and we'll go from there and Nica. Sorry so I show the same cost concerns. And also I agree that it would be helpful to see the front plus I just to see that flow and interaction. And also I do agree that I like the differentiation for texture, as opposed to blank even though here visually the all slate seems to show that the difference in in texture as well. So those, those are my thoughts. So what I'd like to do is now give Tony a chance to respond to what he said so far, and then Christina and Alex will get back so Tony. Can you hear me. Yeah. Okay, so I'll try to answer them based on I just quickly jotted down the questions that raised so first with the expected cost. Unfortunately, I can't share with you today. What the differential is between the various options because their estimator is still going through this and they've been exploring where that is so I don't want to get out there in front of the cost estimator in terms of trying to say something that we don't have to confirm. I think one I think we'll say though is that when we looked at the metal in the other library in Framingham for example, one of the reasons actually went to metal was because it was cost effective, as opposed to masonry so in that instance for the least that library that was done, you know about five six years ago. That's why it ended up there. And for other reasons to the design is different. Of course, I think with respect to the slate versus brick issue I absolutely hear the, the interest and express desire. It seems for the most part that folks really like creating that separation. And I think for the reasons of scale. I think that's why when we did the design in the upper left that's what we were thinking about but because they wanted to explore these other options to get your reactions and clearly we have. That's where we are, but clearly having that differential that's in the upper left version the original design I think does help to break the scale down. I think it does render the, I think the kind of the tide in some ways the base that sculpting quality has in some ways a more direct tie in some respects to the original building because it's stone. And I think that as a kind of variation all the colors different. Then with respect to the idea of the front view. We certainly will when can create the front perspective rendering we just in the limited amount of time we actually have between the when we met with the committee last week, and we were actually very pleasantly surprised as they were able to do this within two or three days. So we certainly can push forward to say, let's have them look at the front but unless there's a clear, like what we really don't like this anyway so don't bother rendering that but we can certainly do it and they're in there fast and they can do all three of these alternates pretty quickly. So we can do it just to complete the circle on this just so that we have full analysis on front and rear. And then with respect to, I think the other thing was, well I think most of it was related to to that and as far as the color is concerned so the on the metal version. Yes, there are variations in the panel color. They do come in some range but because it's a more baked in finish they do tend towards a more lighter palettes like the silver is the grays the those kind of things as opposed to you know very bright colors which I don't think we wouldn't want here anyways so the rendering is it's always interpreted because it's taking off what the renders interpreting the sample but when we show the example from that other library that's actually more of a silver white. And you're right it does interesting look a little bit kind of cream color here, but if we really went down this path with metal. Of course what we would have in front of the committee is like, well here's the real samples. You can see actually what it really looks like because ultimately we're going to have to have some way to actually convey to you what the real materials are, especially against existing building which ultimately we would want to do no matter what. And then with respect to the roof. Again, the kind of the, I'm going to just put back for a second. We did have some other images here which I didn't show you but. For example on the roofing the standing scene roofing is a fairly standard common product that's used throughout our region and I'm sure you've all seen my roof and the roof and come in a wide range of color ways to. I think we were we were leaning towards the kind of the gray palette again because when we when we're thinking about this in relation to the existing building I'm sorry I'm going to push back to the front beginning. But if you look at what you're looking at here. Your existing library essentially has a fairly dark actually roof, which of course is shingles. So I think the coloration of what this material is, and how now they compliments this material, but also reacts against this material I think these are all kind of subject to refinements. I will also remind folks that these dormers here. This is also clad in metal as well so that's why when we looked at the, the metal roof system. It's built into the same product line, but there is variation possible within the color of the metal itself. Tony, I just want to ask you to comment on something that Sharon said in the design committee and repeated today which is. Is it, would it be feasible in some way both design the cost and aesthetics to do, if you go down a little further to do part of the building in metal. So go down, go down to your for your for alternatives which are very helpful to see so Sharon has some idea that maybe you wouldn't do the whole building in metal. And she's referenced the possibility of using it somewhere. Is there, is there, is that a possibility in if so, where is the likeliest somewhere that it could be used. So I think, of course anything is possible. But I think one of the things I think this view is really telling at least us is that these forms are kind of scaled into kind of two masses. Right, I mean we have this wing we have this way. And they're read kind of volumetrically and in some ways your existing library is the same. Right, because the front and the size of the historic part is all stung. And so. So having that consistency of a material reading through the fronts and the sides is one thing the other thing I think is that when we look at how you would even attempt to break the materials. We did think this was the most rational way because it establishes again a base. And I think to Alex's point, we also tend to agree with this is that the base tends to want to feel more solid. And there's another practical reason to which is that from a maintenance standpoint, bringing the metal down to the ground, you know you have all sorts of issues you have to deal with in order to protect the bottom of the metal versus coming on top of slate or stone or you know brick. It's a lot easier so I think I think if we're going to do this approach at all I think we either sort of head towards this, or we don't because I think flipping it and reversing it like another consideration to is that conceptually thinking about a heavier material like masonry over lighter material like metal kind of reverses the intuitive nature of like gravity you tend to think buildings, why they plant buildings and anchor them with a more massive solid material at the ground and light it up and many times houses do the same thing even if they're wood siding. If they introduce stone or anything or brick it always tends to run along the bottom foundation and that above you change the material. So long answer to your question. Austin is that I think it's it's at the moment at least for now for me hard to think about a different way we can certainly give us a more thought but at the moment this is why we did it the way that we did. I want to just pursue Sharon's question one more time if I may Tony so that was persuasive what you said, and this is I'm now trying to imagine what Sharon might have been thinking but, for example, could you do the back of the building where you show right the metal over slate, do the back of the building in slate or brick, and then do the side facing the strong house in metal. Is, is that feasible for me they're designed or again trying to figure out what I guess we'd have to look at that. Okay. There's always there's always the question that we have, ultimately, especially at intersections when one material intersects another material. Yeah, this is a lot easier to separate here because we have a natural, what we call a horizontal course that it made it makes a break. If we have this material joining a different material here at the corner, for example, yeah, you just have to think to yourself okay how is if it's break or slate that it's metal. There's always detail that and we would as designers but that's the kind of thing that maybe we jump to right away. All right. So I think I saw Alex Christine and then Paul Alex. Thanks. So, something I think it was Christine said reminded me in the design meeting that I watched Ellen and sloney made a comment on the brick that red brick like we have now is not an option and I was curious why that was. And then following up on that also, you know, I don't know if this is renderings but the colors of the renderings are very different than the sort of brick, you know, examples that you have on the prior slides. So I don't know whether that's just how it reads in the rendering versus right like these. So yeah go right here so like these seem much warmer sort of tans than what it looks like in the rendering so I just don't know whether that's rendering and I should really be looking, you know, more like the Magnolia Ridge or just I don't know which of these brick choices in theory I'm looking at that helps me get a sense. Thanks. Okay, Tony if you just hold and we'll collect Christine and then Paul. If you could roll back to the four examples, please. So the more we look at this. And I've had a little time to think about some of this because of our eating last Friday. My favorite is still the brick oversleep the first original look looks really beautiful. I'm not busy about the all anything. So, I don't know if I feel as strongly against the medalist Paul but I could be swayed over cost and I know Tony you're saying you don't have that kind of amount but maybe that's what I personally am going to come down to wrestling and what I like the most and what it costs so if there's any savings and sometimes when it's on sale you go to like it. Thank you, Christina and Alex if you're if you're done with your questions if you take down your hand that would be great. So two questions one is, do you, when you mix and match materials do you worry about those interacting with each other they expand to contract a different race drain weather and so when you have brick overslate or metal overslate do you worry about that. And the second thing is just sort of a design aesthetic that you're bringing to this project and maybe I'm late to the game on this is that it's very handsome to date. Classic and I'm wondering if you are thinking of any sort of flashy design feature or anything that was like jump out and say you know like color or something like that that might be signature. I mean, people would say wow there, anything with the wow effect if you're thinking of that or is there is the instruction to the design team to say no we want this to fit in and sort of recede from and not be too flashy. Thank you, Tony. So I'll start with Alex question this is related to the color of the break. red and versus what we're showing and then the second is the representation of the rendering versus the color of the break so I'm going to go back to this here. So I'll start with this first. Ultimately, we would want to have the real samples with us and ideally on site that's ultimately how most of projects are done. Because as you probably all know renderings can only take us so far, and even the renders interpretation and what people even see on their screens. Now, I can actually vary somebody says oh that looks great to me and somebody says that looks brown to me, and then people's own sense of color varies from person to person right so I think the ultimate best way we're going to get at this Alex is actually when we finally decide what materials are going at these real samples so for example it's the Magnolia Ridge or it's Cordoba or something else will actually have a number of these things with us and then we'll talk and I do agree with you that these real photographs of real built work like this one here this one here even which is a little bit more grayish that shows a lot of variation and ultimately brick will do that. I think it's going to be a lot richer than what the renderings are showing because it does look flat here. This kind of looks mostly grayish or variations on gray. I think it'll ultimately be a lot more opportunities to have, you know, life. So, I think that's well that will be pretty good that and then with respect to the color the reason why we moved away from red is because I think for us really the, the sense of trying to be complimentary to this is where we're driving all of this discussion so the beauty of your existing is that it is such a rich palette here embedded in the kind of materials of the stone between warm grays, browns, tans, creams and essentially it's a wonderful way in some ways to key off of so that affords us in a lot of ways to create a kind of a rich but subdued palette on the proposed addition because we can actually zeroing out on this and when again if we have real samples on site we'll say, oh, okay I see that brick picks up on this or I get it now or it's it's tending more towards this so I think that's what's wonderful about your library will allow us to do that. With respect to Christina's comments about the brick over slate and cost. Absolutely. I think we we ourselves. If I had to render judgment internally, I think we still very much like I think the original design that we have been all working on with you which is having a contrast between the upper part and the lower part so I think we tend to agree with this. But I think we had to do this other in order to get your opinions in order to see whether you like anything else and clearly we're seeing that you're reaffirming where we already started with I'm not hearing something differing from that. The cost of course is going to come into play and when we have that information. Christine and the committee, then that will help, I think inform a number of this discussion and if, for example, let's just say that and I'm just speculating if one was like twice as expensive as another material and of course I know we have to deal with budget. That will render some choices here, because we have to find some way to save costs so let's wait to see what happens from the estimator and then we can have more informed discussion. And then finally with respect to, I think your comments or questions Paul on the mix and match of materials. I think when we design a detailed buildings and expect to get steerer materials we always take into account the nature of materials that allow for proper expansion and contraction and the way materials wrecked one another. Fortunately, of course, in an example combination brick with stone. This is done all the time in many places and this is fairly common and of course the data of this material it really weathers well in New England. So it and they probably have less expansion attraction issues and comparatively to some other materials but but of course we would look very carefully as we design the materials and how we design the details. And the issue of flashiness I guess that was the term you use if I heard you correctly versus quiet. I think we felt that the end of the day that we wanted to create something that was going to be clearly of our time or of its time, but also complimentary and so for us, I think it really came back to thinking carefully about this. There were some considerations in the early design phases where there was something that was much more contrasted against this but I think at the end of the day when we all came back to this and we didn't bother reviews a lot of comments and feedback, we ended up saying that we want to be something that's respectful of this so hence the somewhat almost kind of in some ways contemporary gambrel forms, right, what you can see here, the use of natural materials, a quieter palette but but yet I think when you look at this this clearly is going to look. Pretty contemporary, the windows are bigger, the scale is larger, there's going to be a lot of natural light coming into the library, so I think it's going to be kind of a quiet, but we hope elegant design that is going to really bring forth, you know, joyful place to be in the library. Thank you, Tony, can you go up one slide again please. So, I, I want to say that, you know, anything is possible. But I'm imagining this view in all metal. So the metal roof with the metal of sighting. And I, I'm having trouble seeing the complementarity. So that's just one thing that I think about when I think about the metal. This is going to look from this view, if you have this metal roof and then that's the metal sighting. It doesn't feel great to me. Like others, I like that the differentiation between the base and the other, and the other part of the, and the other part of the library and I, I hope we can end up there depending on the, depending on the cost but I, it would take. Take a little bit for me to get used to the metal and think that that's the right choice for this library. Now again, if it comes down to that's the only place where we can achieve the cost savings necessary to stay within our budget. Then maybe that's a different conversation but I myself would not want you to put a lot of into thinking about metal at this point because I think the other materials. Are just so much better in terms of what it is that we're trying to achieve. So I've got Christine and then Anika Christine. Thank you. So Austin, I, I agree with you I so I'm glad we have this picture up because it reminds me and I have to keep reminding myself that the front of the building is the most important and that is where our beauty is the old 1928 29 building there is gorgeous. And I agree with Austin that so the side that is also very visible there, the new addition part. I have a hard time, you know, thinking metal roof, and then, you know with lines going up and down and then horizontal lines more metal on the side. So, if we could roll them out back to the back options again. I just want to ask Tony to think about. We talked about some different options before could could and I don't know would have to see like yeah that metal one would be good. So number four, if it was only metal on the, and I don't know the architectural at the ends of the massings, and then maybe on the side parts do brick or something and if that would be any bit of a cost savings when he's figuring this out. Because that is the back of the building and of course we want all of it to be attractive. But again as we're looking at cost, maybe, you know, you, you're not always as concerned about the back as much as you have a front or the side the parts of the visible. And the last question part to Tony when he's looking at this is. So if I was going shopping for brick for my own home, you know, are there different levels or makers of brick where that can be the savings like, or that you know there's the high end gorgeous gorgeous, beautiful, or the, you know still attractive, but maybe a less expensive brick option. Thank you. Sorry, I'm having a difficulty with my connection. If we could, well my comment is on that side view that we were just looking at. I really appreciate the that transition I know we weren't able to see the addition with the front but even just seeing from the side. I really appreciate I know that the coloring the coloring may be off but I think that this is really just such a beautiful job going from historical like a really smooth transition going from the historical facade to more contemporary design and I really appreciate the the pointing out how the palette is used to go without it really. I think it really does add a nice flow and sophistication to the total design like that and you know I just really appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you and I can also get lost in that type of bringing out colors. Sure. Thank you. Okay Tony back to you. Okay, so I again I think that the, the observation about I'm going to go back to this view. So the observation about the opportunity to consider the to what we're calling the emphasize of the kind of gameral contemporary version of it and then the size being a different material. Maybe we can look at that. And it may be that kind of thing but says okay this is a reasonable amount of material here. And if the metal proves to be, you know, fairly less expensive than the break. Then sure, we can we can see what the consequences of how much and but what's the savings. The other question you raise about the quality of the break. Yes, there are different qualities. For example, another project we've used what we called sort of a Norman brick. And we like that because it's a little bit longer than a traditional brick. So for example, traditional bricks are typically about eight inches long, you know, two and three since high. The Norman brick is that high but they can stretch it 12 inches long. It makes actually a difference because a lot of institutional projects. And we've done it ourselves like the Norman brick because it almost looks a little bit more substantial. It actually stretches the horizontality in and it makes it's actually makes the sense of scale lower because the brick is getting longer. But there is some cost. There is some cost differential. And it's hard because there's less brick involved because there's longer, but the break is a little bit more specially brick so you know but that's a that's a sub variation. The other way, which we've also thought about, but we, we'd have to do more research is so there's some products, which is called a thin brick, but don't have it like the, like a really cheap, you know brick master, it looks like wallpaper. It looks like brick from the outside but it's actually made up more panelization so it comes in larger sheets. And then it has the illusion of not the illusion it's real break, but it's not as thick as traditional brick because it's actually that's what they call it thin break. And that sometimes is used for an astronomical way to apply brick. Now, we have to be careful here because the variation in quality, and perhaps the variation in actually the brick, maybe not the same as traditional brick so in other words, if we go to a product like that they tend to have a more limited palette, because they're like pre selecting down to this versus of course brick can come a huge range of color so that but that isn't that isn't some alternate to the brick decision. Vis-a-vis cost. So, I think for us. Since we're trying to look at these various options and when waiting till your cost information to get more informed. Once we have at least within the base scheme even on these four will be able to know pretty quickly like okay well clearly. We have a ballpark to one another but that one is like quite a bit more and this one is quite a bit less. That's going to bracket you right away by all right now, we kind of have a more informed decision to make here. So, I'm sorry again I'm sorry we can't share that we just do until we have it but hopefully my time we get the cost of sort of give us this information will will be able to do this more concretely. So Tony, I have we given you enough. So I wanted everybody have a chance to see, see what you were thinking about it seems that there's some concerns about the metal. It seems that there's a preference for the different with the base material from the from the rest of the material. I have we given you what you need at this point. I guess I believe you have awesome and thank you all for giving this very critical feedback. All right one second before you Paul. Yeah, I just want to mention one thing. So, and I have again late to the game here but one of the things I want this library to be is that it when you have the outside visitors coming, you want to say you got to come see our library. And where I felt that most intimately is the Graham guns design of the Lincoln Library and Lincoln mass, which I felt like they did a marvelous addition to that library and I was like, Oh, this is where I would like if I had a guest there if I lived in Lincoln, which I would not be able to afford to do but so it's in that sort of I want people to come here when after we finish this project that everybody wants to bring their kids and your grandkids down to see it because it's so special. So that's that's what my aesthetic is trying to accomplish with this if we can afford it. That's the first mission measure. Absolutely. We're very much on the same page Paul, and we want to create the highest quality library that we can within the constraints and parameters that we are charged with. I think we're all on the same page with with that that's been the instruction in a way right from the beginning. So, yep, Alex. I wanted to make a request and I don't know whether this is to Sharon or to FA, but once we get the cost differentials. I'd like to be able to take the different picture options to be able to as part of our community outreach let people know the decisions that we're making but I don't want to do that until people know there's a cost associated with it so it's not necessarily pick your favorite choice but I just want to be able to get copies of all of this so that we can do that so just making that request. No problem. Okay, so Christine I think we're, we've done the work of the design subcommittee report is that right. Yes, until FA has more to bring to us to think about this is where we're at. Great and Tony and colleagues. Tremendous thanks for the work that you're doing Craig. Yes, I wanted to say, you know, thank you to find gold Alexander for pulling this information together so quickly. I think we just met the end of last week and they did a great job assembling it and making it digestible for everybody. Then the other thing I wanted to ask is I have a simple report. I don't know if now is the time to do it about some ever sources incentives. So it's something that's kind of in the design subcommittee. Yeah, or I can talk about it later in the meeting after we hear the outreach subcommittee if it's okay let's hear it now. Fantastic. All right, I'll share my screen again. Are we all set with FAA. So, yeah, Alex. Are we are we talking about gender inclusive bathrooms and the elevator today and part of that or not. No, we're not talking about that. Yeah, Alex. We're going to have to share that the next time. Got it. Okay, thank you. Should we sign off are we are we good with everyone do you need any more questions to us. I think unless anybody speaks I think you're free to go. Okay, thank you very much and have a great evening and appreciate all your comments. Thanks for your work. Thank you. All right, Craig, let's let's hear about the incentives. All right, oops. Sure, sharing the right screen here. Share screen. Third time's a charm. Okay. Nice meeting with ever source last week. Alexander was present also Sharon and Christine what were there and the representative. Shareena gave us a quick overview of what our project may be eligible for. So in brief there are these different pads to getting incentives and these are all mass saved incentives kind of rebates almost. I think that this project seems most eligible for is actually their highest level, and it's, you know, path one, it's a net zero energy ready building, or a low EUI building and EUI is an acronym that stands for energy use index. It's basically a number that you can compare from one building to another how much energy that building is using. So within this path one there are their highest incentives. They have two tiers. Tier one is if you've got an EUI that energy use index of 30 or less tier two. And I'll talk about briefly how much money we potentially could receive on this project tier two is if the energy the goal is between 31 and 35. And so to put that in perspective, the design team advised that we've got a 63,000 square foot building. And the current understanding is an EUI of 34. So that puts us right here in tier two, but the goal is actually 29 so over as the design develops that's, you know, we can anticipate where to be somewhere in that range so potentially this tier one. And but also potentially tier two. So there are a couple different ways that we can sort of get money from ever source or is actually massive. If we go with this tier one route, the building is designed and constructed for energy use index of 30 or less. We can actually realize $2 per square foot of building. If it's tier two it's $1 50 and so doing you know some quick math that puts us anywhere from 94,000 to $126,000 rebate. And so that's there's all, you know, so that's a good incentive. So that's one way to get some incentive money. So what that is, if the design includes a heat pump there are these various technologies that we could realize someone from that not as large as these figures, what, some more incentive money. That's one sort of the design. And then that money could be collected or given reimbursed at the end of construction. Another program that they just started up is post occupancy verification. So you do all that stuff at the beginning of the project, you get your check or your rebate for that design work, but then for a year, you monitor your verify the energy, actual energy consumption of the building. And then they have a couple pay points for that as well, either $1 50 for, you know, per square foot so it's another potential 94,000. If you hit your target, or 75 cents a square foot so you know half of that so maybe another 47,000. If you the actual use does not match doesn't achieve the design, you know, EUI. So this is part of this incentive program is mass save and ever source want to understand, you know, does the energy that you plan for translate to the energy that actually gets used. And so it's kind of a mutually beneficial exercise. And then there's also some other smaller incentives for if you go for a net zero certification they'll give you $3,000 towards that. The verification process they'll split the cost of that up to $10,000. So there's, you know, lots of ways that we could realize as much as even a quarter of a million dollars by going through this program. And they show it they get, Sharina gave us a timeline. So you can see so this is similar to my, the schedules that I present across the top here are the different phases or this is the timeline, and they have different colors for different phases as you can see their activities submissions, kind of that happen throughout the course of the project so it is a it is somewhat of a commitment that you are entering into this agreement with ever source. And, and the way that commitment manifests itself is they have this memorandum of understanding, which outlines the program. And at the bottom, you know, a customer obviously has to read through everything make sure that comfortable with it, and both the customer, you know, town of animals. So we, I think it's the Jones library because of they consider the customer whoever pays the electric meter. And then design team sign and that's the first step in this long process here so we're actually at schematic design. So we're, you know, the very first thing is this engage in the program step number one so we'd be doing that now, if, if the town is interested in pursuing. So, I'll send all this information over to actually probably send it through Angela to distribute to everyone on the library building committee. So this is the design subcommittee. There may be some question I'm sure there'll be some questions because this is, you know, it's a whole program it's not just a one and done activity, but I do think there is some great potential here to cash in on some of the incentives that mass savings offering. But Craig does this involve any, any cost to us or there is their design work or anything else that would otherwise not have to be done that will have to be done. If we go into this program. I believe that the design team is engaged for this design portion so this just has to do with so that short answer is I do not think that there is any additional design costs that you have to pay. However, there may be some extra costs that get cooked into the building. So to achieve these lower lives there may be, you know, a higher efficiency piece of equipment that you purchase that if you purchase just say a regular piece of equipment or regular efficiency. You know, maybe there is a little more cost and are there is some potential more cost and construction. Once we get to that post occupancy phase that would represent additional, not necessarily design fees but additional professional fees. Can one enter into this program and then opt out along the way. That's a question. I hope that the answer to that may be in this memorandum of understanding not read all the way through. Okay, but if it's not that is something I can ask. Okay, ever source. So if it's like hey this isn't turns out this is not working for us. I'll look into that see if that is an option. Yeah we'd want to know that. Any other questions at this stage about the energy incentives, Sharon, you know one of the things that they did say was so you would be telling them you are aiming for this EU why. But if you don't need it that's okay she was clear when she said the memorandum of understanding that you would sign is not a binding contract so you don't if you don't hit the number that's okay but I do have it. I have a question about so library versus the town and the trustees are going to have to sign the memorandum of understanding and I'm, I guess I'm just interested in how that needs to flow both for Craig and ever source and the how does that all work. That is a great question that I'll have to look into. I think that we will discuss this as a committee and the town manager and the finance director will weigh in their views about how it fits into the energy conservation and sustainability program for the town and the trustees on a recommendation from the building committee will weigh in as well. Okay, thank you Craig. So, the next item on our agenda is a report from Alex we. To give the report did you have a question about the. Yeah, I had a question if that's okay I, I just wanted to touch base about the schematic designs that were received on May 27. So, I'm not sure. I can't join the design subcommittee so I guess I just wanted to understand the process of when this group might ask questions weigh in, like, I want to better understand the process around the designs, the schematics as they're developed for this group. Craig do you want to say something about the way in which this the schematics will come to the group. So the way I understand it to work is that the design team is going to make regular presentations to the design subcommittee. And then design subcommittee will take a looking at that look at that. And then when it comes time to make decisions. Design subcommittee will be making a recommendation to library building committee will then make the actual decision or give direction to the design team. If you have anything that you want to say about those schematics. And then you might say it. Alex. Great. Yeah, no, I just had a couple of questions on the schematics. And it's my understanding I'm not going to read anything into the furniture as drawn. It's also my understanding that, for example, the Burnett Art Gallery doesn't show, you know, a storage area that that's all things will likely to see more in the design development phase is my understanding so I guess I want to make sure that's correct understanding. And on the. So the social worker in residence, and the artist in residence, I didn't see anywhere on here and so again that might be a, they exist but it just needs to become clear and then the same with the literacy project I know that the literacy project. And then ESL are in the same area but I wasn't sure, like are the coordinators sharing an office like I wasn't really sure how that was working and wanted to understand that. And then my other question was that the team, there was a conversation about having a separate exit for the teams and in the schematic. I don't think there's something there but I don't know if that's like an existing something that's going away or if that is a potential and just needs to be developed. So those were kind of my off the. Oh no and I have one sorry one last one. I guess I want to I know that there's for the Civil War tablets like I know there's a separate committee around the Civil War tablets. So my whole plan is to have them in here. But I guess I just wanted to better understand because if whatever's ultimately decided on changes, the space programming I guess I just want to make sure that that's all flowing in the way that it should be flowing. I don't want to respond to what Alex has asked. Yeah. So the, I hadn't, I hadn't noticed that the social worker in residence or the artist in residence wasn't there because I, I thought they were in near the adult circulation desk. I think that's where they're supposed to be and they won't, they won't be permanent fixtures it's just it's square footage for in case. When there is an artist or there isn't a social worker, they would come in and then they would set up their table but then the table would go away eventually so that's what I think about that. So the literacy project great question so the literacy project, they're going to have those two classrooms during their academic year from 9am to 3pm and after that it transfers over that's when ESL will be able to use that space. And as far as the literacy project coordinator they will be located in those two classroom spaces. The separate exit for the teens. That's, it's a question for the architects and I have not. I don't think I've heard that discussion yet. The only thing that concerns me about that is, then, then people would have access to the first floor after hours. And I'm worried about that like right now we've got all the after hours access to the building on the ground floor and that seems very neat and clean. You know for alarm purposes for security purposes the minute you open up the first floor, I start to get a little more nervous, but the architect could tell me to stop being nervous Sharon, it would also have to be made handicapped accessible. And that's another, that's another architect question and the Civil War tablets, I am thrilled that you asked, I think that we in the design committee needs need to figure out how to how to get input from that committee, as well as the Burnett Art Gallery committee. So that yeah, those are my answers. And we talked about the teen exit Christine do you want to you want to share some of the conversation we had. Yeah, if I can redefine my question as per usual not asking my question clearly. So, first of all, now that you pointed out the teeny tiny writing I do see the artist and resident and I see the social worker and residents so thank you I found them. My question was, when I'm looking at the schematic there to the top right as you look down there is a door and a set of stairs and I guess I was trying to understand is what I'm looking at the drawing stairs. Are they internal stairs or are they external stairs because I think the question is not to have after our access into the building it's more like an emergency exit that people just pop out of. Yeah, let Sharon answer it. Okay, Sharon. Yeah, so that door from the what is now the fiction room that right now isn't it's an exterior door with the it's a steep, steep staircase. It's there right now it's only for emergency purposes right now. Great. Thank you, Christine. Yeah, so the schematic design designer keeps coming back as they keep making more and more changes, and it is mostly more about just to confirm that about walls and area of programming rather than like furniture or anything like that, this point. But I want to ask and maybe Angie is the one who can tell us, where can the public find the ongoing list of these different renditions of schematic design. Sometimes they're in the packet or they get posted later in the minutes but wondering like where can people find them because they are big documents, but if you are looking at them at home you can really zoom in and look at the different parts. Yeah, I think we're all seeing them for the first time at those meetings they don't, they haven't been reaching me in advance of those meetings and so we could probably better streamline that process. I'm happy to discuss with Austin and with Sharon, the best way to organize that on the town's webpage. But right now they're they can be found in the packets and I'm having to ask for them after seeing them for the first time with you at these meetings. Great. Thank you. Thank you Angie. Thank you. I'm just going to add to that answer. Okay. Well, I think the question was where can the public see them and they're actually the minute that we get them they're posted on the library building project website, and then every newsletter has a link to each of the versions of the schematics. Great. Thanks so much. Excuse me again for my my delays here. So I just wanted to confirm is there, but there rather was still time to be able to speak on to see what what room there is for Civil War tablets to see if to, to explore a dedicated space as opposed to a war monument on the wall because you know, as a dedicated as with dedicated space, they could really bring us a type of gallery and donations level of sophistication within a gallery that does not exist in Amherst at the moment. Sharon, do you want to say a little bit about the conversation about the Civil War? I feel like this is this is process and because we have the Burnett Art Gallery and and also the Civil War tablet group who would like someone on one time with the architects and I'm just I'm not sure how this committee or the opm or the architects want to handle that. What is the case now is it not that the schematic design does not contemplate a dedicated space for the Civil War tablets is that the case. Correct. So I think that just needs to be said that right now that is not part of the schematic design process. And if the committee wants it to be the committee needs to speak up clearly about it. And if the committee wants it to be then of course the question is what is going to be, you know, what is going to be moved or how is it going to be moved around. So I see Christine and then Paul Christine. Yeah, thanks. So I see, you know, time is just flying here and I'm looking at the calendar and looking at Craig's calendar. Maybe I'm tossing this to Sharon and others here should we have a meeting a design subcommittee on the 24th of June and then we're into July and time is really getting short does the Burnett Gallery group or the or this the tablet group or a sustainability group like do any of these people need to come and say like when do we give them an opportunity to speak. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm asking I also because there's a cost. I think the Burnett Gallery needing a closet in their room that that has been in the plans all along. But as far as a Civil War tablets go as Austin said the plan all along has been the Galleria. So if there is going to be another room created somehow, there is an added cost to that and and so that's bigger than just the design committee I feel like I feel like that decision needs to be made here. Paul. So yeah, I want to make sure we have that purposeful discussion I mean we early on the decision was made to include the Burnett Gallery, but not a dedicated space for the Civil War tablets I think we need to have that conversation whether we continue to agree with that allocation of space that way, or if there's another space or something else that has to happen. I think you're right to say we need to involve folks in early at this moment in time and invite them to your meeting. I think Christine to say, here's where we are, let us know what you think, and then get that feedback I think it's much better do it earlier than later, and this is the time but I do want to make sure it's on the agenda for us to talk about how we address the need for space for these Civil War tablets. Alex. Yeah, I mean I guess I just have a question around. So the original building program, right, didn't have a separate space for for these tablets, just like the original design didn't have a net zero ready building right and then there was a process around that and the decision was made to, you know, to do that. And this, from my perspective, you know, if there's a desire to have an add on space is, is it a relatively easy thing to have the art to know what that space, what the desired space requirements are how many square footage and to find out how many architects, you know, if we add 200 square feet to this building that's not currently contemplated. What is that cost and then is that a question of whether town pays or there's fundraising for it or I mean I, I don't see it necessarily being in our cost structure because it's beyond the scope of what we originally decided but I mean I could be wrong that's kind of where I'm coming from is if there's a desire to sort of change this just you know having having concrete numbers so that we can figure out who and how to pay for it. If that's how people want to move forward. Craig. Thank you awesome. Something else to consider. And I don't know what the actual situation is but we don't know how far the design has gone we have you know the plans but at a certain point adding in to the ramp spaces will have such a large impact that it would actually could delay us on the schedule, and also could incur additional design fees and again I don't know if we're at that point yet, but that is just something that to keep in mind so that would be a discussion that we have to have a final Alexander discussion doesn't cost anything we just talk about it, and then ask for their, you know, their feedback on that. And that's the answer if we could, if you all agree it, if we could ask the architects hey listen this is something we would like to explore. Tell us how much it would cost to explore when is the deadline for exploring this so that we could actually see as Alex was saying, where the space would come from if square footage is not being added. Or, if it could be added how much extra does that cost, and then we can talk about how that gets paid for or you know if we're talking an additional million dollars, it just can't happen. Paul. Yeah, I'm not talking about adding space I'm talking about reprogramming existing space perhaps, and looking at how we're allocating space. Clearly this is something that we need to address, and I just want to make sure we have a purposeful discussion we schedule time to do that. Sure, the Civil War tablets is a big issue in this library. We're not talking about a small space. We're talking about a lot of space. So it is very, very consequential and I think we'll ask Christine on the design subcommittee to schedule some time for it. We'll get together with Craig and figure out what it is that we need by way of information if there is a desire on the part of the committee for a dedicated room. It would be good to hear that because I do think it's very consequential for the for the design Christine and then Anika. I just want to declare how we're thinking we're going to handle this so there's the next meeting that this could fit in would be June 24. Are we saying we invite someone from this Burnett or Tetley who we inviting, and I ask, you know, we request for FAA to be there. Is that what we're trying to go for for the 24th and who are we asked like, who are the contacts or how do I find out who we're talking to. Right. Anika, can you, can you. Anika next and then we'll figure that out. Sure. Well, I am on the board to have a committee. So I'm one. And now but I wanted to appreciate a follow up comments comment and I just wanted to add to give some give us something to to think about. I do believe that a thoughtful discussion of where these will go will be one of the most inclusive things that we can do the tablets the folks on that they predate the library, some of them predate the columns. You have folks that bridge the town to the acts that ended slavery in America. And, you know, during our outreach. During the outreach open house which was wonderful. One of the counselors I watched this. This was actually in special collections and her children were there. And there was no one that they could look at there that looks like you know, and it's, you know, we need to think about that and realize the impact so yes we can have a war monument. We can have something that highlights this grit and freedom, and the acts of members that were also very important in this community. So I hope that we can look and think about these tablets with that lens as we move forward and think about whether or not they deserve a dedicated space. Thank you, and he can you be in touch with Christine about either yourself or someone else or you and someone else coming and speaking about the Civil War tablets with the design subcommittee. That would be that would be great. Okay, Christine. Thanks. Okay, Alex. I have a question. So, I think, you know, having a dedicated space museum, you know, exhibit room is obviously a really wonderful idea. And for me, I guess the question is, you know, I assume we have to go back to the mblc if we're like if we ultimately decide yes we're going to create a dedicated space for these that's something that the mblc has to sign off on or is there a way. Could it even be desirable from the Civil War tablet committee. If we were to expand the special collections exhibit room and have part dedicated to the like I'm wondering if there's a way to change the gallery so that the gallery is smaller and expand the collections, you know, exhibit space to then sort of have a dedicated space that's a museum like or exhibit like I don't know what's possible but if we're if we're taking away from a different program in the building. It's my understanding that requires the mblc to sign off on it. Let's let's let Christine and the design committee meet with the people from Civil War tablets group. Let's hear what they have to say Craig can help us coordinate with FAA to at least give a heads up to FAA that this is a question which is now on the table the design committee will design subcommittee will submit it and hear it and bring it back to this and bring it back to this committee. Okay, we are getting on six o'clock here, Alex report from the outreach committee and then Sean Alex before you go Sean we're going to want some financial update all good news. You want me to deliver that now. No, I want to wait until after Alex's report. Okay, I'll prepare for that. Alex. I think that's the heads up. So, I, not, I mean, we, so the outreach committee has not met since our last Jones library building committee meeting. But in terms of community outreach we've been now to the Amherst survival center the last two Thursdays. And we've actually been incorporating sort of a campaign around bringing out information about program and services that are available so that people know what they can get with a library card as well as actually issuing library cards on site. And then we've also been collecting feedback as well so that's the sort of a multi pronged approach. Still the farmers market on June one we had our schematic design presentation, which is a recorded meeting. We did collect feedback which is in the public document that you will have access to. And then we have teams are head of young adult went on June 1 to the high school during the entire lunch block, signing kids up for library cards telling them about summer reading program but then also collecting what teams want to see in their space. And then the library and at the high school has graciously agreed to keep a comment board up in the library that will continue to be collecting in the works is trying to also do the middle school, as well as summit academy and then we're also working with Amherst recreation around talking to teams through those avenues. There's also online survey responses that we're getting back that are specific 14 they were created 14 was aren't entirely in the public comments that you have I haven't quite figured out how to put them in yet because they're, they're very specific it's almost better for me to send you the package of teams I don't know yet but just know that that exists out there. The tablet, which is the image we've gotten in 65 comments, 83 reactions and 36 people have contributed to that so we have some, some skimmers out there which is nice. We also are getting feedback in we're getting the library form people can submit a blind we're getting emails coming in, we're getting things through Amherst talks so the nice thing is we're getting we're seeing activity in all various channels that we're doing which is nice. As of two days ago, we were up to 371 unique comments 1456 comments in total when you add frequency which is pretty darn good I think. Coming up tomorrow from seven to 830 we have a community engagement forum it's virtual online. And then we will be at Village Park on June 11 for another community event in that apartment from 12 for. I think that's my quick update. Thank you Alex and thank you for all thank you for all the good, good, the good work that you are doing an ECA. But on top of all that Alex had time to join me for office hours at the senior center today on top of all of that. Great. Thank you, thanks for doing that any other question for the outreach committee. All right, again thank you to Alex and the committee, Sean financial update. So there's not much we continue to pay our bills. We don't have many bills yet. These will get more exciting when we dive into construction and we're looking at fancy charts that the opm will provide in terms of you know staying on track and staying on budget. Maybe in the future, you know look to share and or Austin if you if you think it's worthwhile updating on the fundraising goals but everything I see looks positive. I see emails and headlines I see look sound positive so there's not really much to report other than, you know, we're still paying all our bills and moving forward with the opm and and looking to move forward with the designer soon. Right and you have no invoices for us to approve. I didn't see any unless Craig you I didn't see any new ones come in so I assume I'll get one soon for the month of May but I didn't see. All right. Thank you thank you Sean. Any any questions about the financial update. Okay, there is no no correspondence that we have received that I know of there are no topics, not anticipated 48 hours in advance. We have three members of the public thank you very much for attending now is an opportunity for public comment. If you would like to make a comment. Please signify by raising your virtual hand. Okay, I see no virtual hands being being raised. I want to thank you all again for a very productive meeting it was wonderful to hear from the architects about the exterior of the building. Craig. And before we concluded I just wanted to introduce a new member to our team coming from my office colliers is well for Nanda's was new to the company and will be assisting on this project. And I know some of you've already met him in various subcommittees but I just wanted to introduce him to everyone here will say say hello and share any cost saving ideas that you have. Nice to meet everyone. I'm going to back pocket all my savings ideas later down the line, but I'll be sure to sprinkle those out throughout the project. Thank you will we look forward to your working with you thanks for the help that you will that you will give us. Okay. Motion to adjourn. So moved. Thank you. Well, having heard so moved that from two people will consider it seconded okay Christine. Yes, yes. Paul. Yes, John. Yes, Sharon. Yes, Alex. Yes, Austin and again great thanks to Angie for her wonderful, wonderful help. Stay well everybody. Thank you. Good night.