 Thank you for staying with us. You're still on to the breakfast on plus TV Africa and right now we stand for a hot topic So we'll be talking about gov. No banks on gov not sanny on building three vocational seats in Kaduna to export skills and Joining us to talk about this is Frank. Yeah. Yeah. He's a technology and media news editor at business D It's on the phone with us. Good morning, Frank. Thank you for joining us Yeah, good morning Thank you for having me and I Left her Are you still in Nigeria, Frank? I am Because now when you hear that someone leaves somewhere is Jack while we're thinking about so it's good to have you here Yeah, thank you very much Gov not sanny building about three cities to you know export skills from Kaduna Let's just have your thoughts on that and then we'll go right in I think it's absolutely sport on for governor to be thinking about Investments in vocational training Whether we like it or not We have a electricity issue in this country We Last last data. I think I checked was a literacy in Nigeria. The rate is around a little over 60% Okay, and then of course the literacy rate is still at around there Above a 30% you know and in Kaduna state for instance as of 2018 the list the literacy rate was 54.6 percent ish you know, so There and then if you then drill down to what really Defines literacy you find that there are different variations of literacy, you know and We we haven't gotten there and I Think that it's about time that we start thinking that Education is Exclusive to just the four walls of a university or maybe to the of a primary school classroom or secondary school classroom or a Certificates even To state that as well We've we've we've so much put a lot of stock in certificates graduate that is is affecting us in Very very The dire way, you know, and what which also our leaders not investing enough in in education I think the UNESCO The court is that was supposed to invest at least maybe about that 20% of our Our our budget on education now we haven't achieved that for many years now if anything I don't even think we've gone up to maybe 10% of our budget in education, you know, so it's been below 10% but then There has been calls that we should start looking at other ways of educating our people, you know First of all is Can we start teaching them in our local languages using local languages? That's that's one idea That's been out there for a very long time, you know, which also I think Inspired the whole idea of our major education, you know, but then also Using vocational trainings, you know, some people don't necessarily have to go to the university Some people don't necessarily have to you know, where the gowns do matriculation and all of that, you know but when you Channel people channel some people their energies into vocational trainings and all that what you find yourself having are technically sound sound people you're able to build skills in a lot of people, you know, and They go out there. They make income. They make revenue. They As in they still do the things that people who went to the university do, you know So I think it's a very very good development At least for cardinal. It's it will help them to reach the gap in education, you know And it will also help them also to reduce maybe security challenges that they are having, you know, poverty poverty have a way of Building security, of course, because when people don't have money don't have what to eat or whatever and all that and have a lot of time On their hands. They are unemployed. They seem to take up to crime That's that has been the order of the day and Kaduna has been one of the state's worst hit in in 2024 alone, we have seen a lot of Violins Mostly in southern Kaduna and all the parts of that state, you know, and all of this all of this is all because some people Feel like they're not being given a lot of attention or Some some some excuses here and there in order, but education is one way that you can take people out out of that cycle of poverty Education is one way you can take them as you can get them engaged and they start thinking positive thoughts thoughts that will Help that state to move on and I think all that governor should also look towards Replicating what is what is about to happen in in Kaduna That's my thoughts so far Yeah Sometimes when when we think about this I just also feel what the point will be if Somebody gains the skills for instance of making shoes that will not be bought by anybody You know because we're talking about building skills be building that Demography of people that will have the necessary necessary skills But not necessarily going to university and having a certificate and all that But we're not talking anything about patronizing Nigerian made whatever it's going to be so I don't know whether it goes beyond just building centers but what about the sensitization of people to to One respect these people not just because they didn't go to school But by the fact that they have the skill and to to patronize the people when they get the skill and begin to produce Whatever they are going to produce. I just use the example of shoes So somebody will not want to buy an abamate shoe will want to buy Italy so the abamate person will have to Maybe label it made in Italy and all that. So doesn't it doesn't don't you think it goes beyond just building centers? I Think I think that people are always going to have the preferences when it comes to What what they buy, you know If if I don't think a particular shoe, let's you shoe again is quality I'm not going to buy just because it was made in Nigeria. I'm gonna buy it because it is quality I'm looking at the value that you're going that a shoe is going to give me over a period of time Do you really think we should call it a matter of preference or a matter of name? You know, like what will the society say? It's I Think that I think that what this vocational skew Doors is first of all, it gives you it gives you the foundation of Offer or it gives you a foot into the door like you can make shoes All right. That's that's one good thing about it then It becomes it becomes an Additional value if you go beyond that to say, I don't just want to make shoes I want to make shoes that people are going to buy now when we go to where many of us go to the market I don't think every everybody Everybody go to the market and start looking for maybe Givenchy start looking for Louis Vuitton or any of these Foreign brand names and all that what they're actually just looking for is something that can last over a period of time Whatever name you give it is not the matter What is it? What's important to them is that can these last me this quality? You know first of all, I think we should address the issue of quality in our local produce If we address the issues of quality in our local produce and all that it is easy for us to come to tell our people Hey, this is working after all. I mean look at what's happening with a I'm some some Online shelves, you know on Instagram and all that most of those things actually made here in Nigeria We're beginning to see bags here make many Nigeria. We're beginning to see tell us In Nigeria who are making a lot of great stuff, you know I even making shoes and people are buying them at very high quality at very high prices You know and those shoes are competing with whatever you import from there Well, it doesn't stop those who want to go outside and go and buy from buying and all that but when you say Buy Nigeria or buy made in Nigeria. No, that it is it is great but Let's be reasonable about it because people are bringing out their hard-earned money To get these things and all that so if you're saying that they should buy something in Nigeria That was made in Nigeria Then you should be able to guarantee them that that thing is quality. That's just that's not the whole idea Yeah, well There's no there's no argument about that. I just wanted to bring that out because for instance when the senators were trying to buy their 60 160 million Naira cars. They said what they wanted was the name They didn't even talk about the quality what they wanted was the name because I know that we have a car manufacturer in Nigeria We've been exporting to other countries and they see the cars as very durable. They're very good But just because it's made in Nigeria and the name is not what it is They went out to buy from other places. I just brought that up. It's not like it's a big issue but the thing is What are the things if you were to advise you would advise the governor To to put in place what kind of skills do you think should be in these centers because it's one thing to establish a center It's another thing to have the relevance skills being lent in those centers That will make life meaningful for these people who are going to learn and the society at large First of all, I don't think that I will tell the governor not to Run that center with government or government appointees first of all because when government runs business in Nigeria It often don't end well So the first thing to do if you have built it Transfide to those to private people who can manage it with the requisite skills With the requisite knowledge with the requisite experience who can manage it properly and hands off Just provide them all that they need to provide the environment for them to try for them to make their recruitment for them to Go into the communities, you know provide the security for them and all of that, you know So that's that that's foundational But if he's going to run it with people his cronies people who helped him win elections and all of that Then it is dead on arrival. It means that it's going to be another dead project in Kaduna state All right So first of all is who are those going to manage these vocational training centers? When you have the right people fixed in those vocational training centers, then you have solved like 30% of the problem those people then Do not have to map out the strategies this And the plan that they wouldn't that they will need or that they would deploy Into the communities because it has to be round it has to be all round So there shouldn't be any form of discrimination It shouldn't be all the people are from southern Kaduna and those who are from northern Kaduna So we're going to give more preference to maybe to northern Kavana Whatever and all that that would that will only arise when it is governor's friends that are running it Because they are only going to take cognizance of the interest of the governor or those who are Around him, you know, but if it gives it to people who are independent who just wants to do their job and Make it count then it becomes inclusive So first of all a second beat has to be inclusive. That's the other thing. It has to be inclusive It has to include everybody and it has to be merit based not cronism so you're not thinking about It seems I'm the director of this center I'm going to bring in all my nephews or my cousins or all my brothers to To come learn skills. No, that's what we're talking about here There has to be there has to be a criteria for selection All right, who are we selecting and then they have to have a number? Okay that okay We have a batch or say of 50 hundred people that we're going to and then you also have to have a plan For after you have trained them what nest are you going to give them a loan to start a business? Are you going to place them in companies around Kaduna State? You know to To get the experience From what they have learned, you know So all those things are very very critical for their success because you're not just turning out people That have skills. That's not that should not be the idea If you want to make them exploitable then you have to give them the kind of skills that will make them attractive to those Who want to get them from outside the country people from outside the country? Don't just take people if you if you want to train software engineers All right, you have to bring in those who all who know software very well to train them Because I mean you just you just went right into what I was going to ask was The fact that the the governor talked about putting them on the international market as well Like they're going to be so employable that people can actually get them You know, it's going to be a good export and that was going to be my question. How are we sure so I come again? My question was how are we sure that this is going to be a good export for the country? But then I'm still scared that isn't that going to still bring about the jack-of-all syndrome whereby? We're training these people and they have to move abroad So what at what is the impact of this is it's going to grow our small businesses here because I think that's what we should be looking at Are they going to grow our small businesses here? And what is going to be the impact of this cities that the governor is trying to build? Yes, so Two ways to look at it. First of all is yeah, we need we need them to be part of the local workforce And and also to help build the local economy in both in Kaduna and also outside Cardinal yet Then the other one is that Jack for me is really is not a problem I mean, we have an FX issue right now and Part of that is that even the Nigerians in diaspora and nuts are no longer willing or hesitant in bringing in Fonds into the country and of course we haven't also set up systems that will attract Investments from these Nigerians living abroad, you know, India has perfected stuff like that You know, they've got this funding if they've got this program that Makes there are people who are outside India to Want to invest inside India, you know, we haven't got that Running yet because we are still thinking, you know, Japan is a problem or whatever and all that because also the leaders here Don't are not responsibly not to to do what they promise to do. All right, so that's one. All right, and then talking about Fuelling Fonelling the the local Businesses here and all that it is it is important. I think it's important Yes, they need to be trained and the local businesses here can give them those experiences that they need It is it is it is absolutely important. All right for them to be trained in that manner But beyond that we need to think globally. We need to use them globally Would they need to be they didn't need to jump really if they are so good if they can be trained so well and Given the right experience so so well that from here in Nigeria, they are aiming for incurrences and Yeah, of course So they can sit on their desk here at home wherever they are, you know that so it will require the kind of technology that you bring To bear. All right. So if you're training them, you're also thinking about how do I put in Technology infrastructures. What are what for instance? What is Godunas? I'm strategy for fiber. I did thinking about how do we Yes, okay We have to wrap it up here Well, it's a bit out of time, but sadly you have to wrap it up here anyways I want to thank you for coming and just you know bringing these valuable contributions. Thank you so much Congratulations to your new place of work. Yes, thank you All right, we're taking to Frank. He's an economic analyst and senior writer writer at tech cabal I've just been talking about the fact that the governor of Kaduna states governor sunny Govna Ubersani had been talking about building cities that will be able to export skills from Nigeria and bacon competes Here and in the international markets. So we'll go on a short break whenever we turn will be looking at our next hot topic Please stay with us