 You're welcome back to the breakfast on PLOS TV Africa. Now there's a clash of forces in Chad following the appointment of Mohammad Derby to replace his late father Idris Derby as head of state. On one hand the military who wants General Kaka as his court to oversee an 18-month transition government. On the other hand our opposition parties who see the younger Derby's appointment, who's 37 years old, as an institutional coup. There is also a Chadian rebel group based in Libya which says it doesn't recognize General Kaka. The group, the Front for Change and Concord in Chad says its fighters are already on their way to Chad. Joining us now to take a look at the security implications of this on West Africa and particularly Nigeria is Security and Current Affairs Analyst, Mr Katch on Anuju. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. All right. Mr Anuju, the situation in Chad right now is dire because you know we mentioned earlier that this is you know looking a lot like the Libyan story where you know a power vacuum you know starts to create a power struggle. But I want your comments on you know because Derby had earlier spoken you know about this FACT that they had been crushed you know from Libya they had basically been defeated but now that he's gone and his son has been installed as the head of the Transitional Military Council, they're on their way leaving Libya now back into Chad. So would you say really that you know Derby's former statement of the FACT and other rebellion groups, rebellious groups being defeated was a political statement or would you say that you know it's just his death that's making them resurface now? Well you know what Chad is a cake of gunpowder it's been mismanaged. Mr Derby hadn't been in power for three decades. It was a dictatorship. He kept repeating himself and now we have seen the final outcome of that that happens when dictators are in power. He left and you have an inclusion. Inclusion increased. Members of the ruling junta are still in power. So whatever it is that we're conditioned that we're created as a consequence of his state type policy which is actually the cost of the crisis I think that will still continue because if you looked at what happened it seemed the members of the same clique the same junta that are still in power. So those who are fighting Mr Derby will continue to fight the new Mr Derby. I think the region needs to move in to help that country heal to start the transition that's inclusive so that they can actually have proper democracy. What they have been charged saying is it's not democracy. I remember there was a time President Abacha was paying salaries for the bureaucracy in charge just to give Mr Derby in power. We should not allow that to continue. We should remove Derby as he's going on now and try to hold them accountable to transparent elections that are credible and allow the markets to continue. They are losing in hope to become more inclusive of the aspirations of the majority of China. The biggest concern really is security. The emergence of these militia groups even in Kenya you know we're still every now and then still here of Al Shabaab. The Boko Haram was one of the things that Idris Derby also you know with its his relationship with President Mohammed Buwari had also assisted in the fight against Boko Haram. So one of the biggest concerns with regards security. In the past remember Libya was blamed and the death of the Libyan leader then was blamed for you know the influx of arms and ammunition into other parts of Africa. What is our biggest security challenge now that Idris Derby is dead? The challenge is like I told you before. They must act now to do those things that Mr Idris Derby did not do. An inclusive power sharing system that carries more members of the Chinese society into consideration because the same people with guns are still the same people with guns. The factions that supported Mr Derby are still in power. The factions that were fighting him are still fighting. So since nothing has changed he will continue to see the crisis. Let's not pretend as if there was order. No there wasn't order. There was an insurgency by those who felt out. And there are new fears. He was very very cooperative in the fight against Boko Haram and the other people is seen but Chad was also not a stable society. You should understand that. What we must do now is to encourage an inclusive reform system that it's so inclusive that more members of the Chadian population should be brought in to governance. I think that's the way I foresee it going. Without that improving on whatever it is they had at the time with Mr Derby is the path to go. An inclusive system that agrees to organize power in such a way that more people, not just Mr Derby and his family, you know he had a massive family and the family's presence in Chadian government was very very overwhelmed. Let us start the system that is inclusive that carries more members of the Chadian society. That way you can be able to start negotiating the end of the hostilities that have been on since from the time of Mr Idris Davies being in power. The what I'm trying to get is if we fail to achieve some of all these things because I think we all already always know what should be what should happen. France and the you know international community have also stated what they believe should happen in Chad. But if we fail to achieve some of these or if they fail to achieve some of these things and there's a breakdown of law and other and complete chaos in Chad is there fears that that might spill over into Nigeria and other countries? Nigeria already have more a break of law and order than any movement from Chad can bring. Now where would you, Nigeria not is, Nigeria not is has been at war with the Boko Harami so there's been a very long time and Nigeria has not seen a way to do it. So I see nothing new there's nothing new that will occur on that axis. All we need to do is to stabilize Chad by seizing this particular opportunity to impress on the ruling counter that they should do enough they should do more than Mr Heesheed Herb Reddy so that we can use this opportunity to actually kill two better. I started a process that should have started before now. For that to happen we need Chad's international partners like France to come in and the United States too can do something about it. Let them come in and let us start the process there. You also need to have relaxation of dictatorship all across the Sahel. So yes let us use this opportunity and start to tell Mr Harbis, Mr Davis people who are now in power to start the process of inclusion right now. Okay Ms Ananoju your points are well noted you know the the issues really is that first of all the foundations of government and politics in Chad was faulty. He's been ruling for over over three decades since 1990 basically extending constitutions just so he can remain in power you know since since that year 1990 that I can mention and then that transitional military council you know handed over power to his son and I have a statement here from the spokesman for the front for change and concord in Chad FACT and he's saying that Chad is not a monarchy that there can be no dynastic devolution of power in the country and that they're going to basically resist this and resist the installation of a Mohammed as you know transitional ruler of Chad. So in light of what you've been saying you know that Chad dictatorship should be neutralized or relaxed in Africa would you say that the FACT is justifying their move? Okay we would apologize for that first of all sorry about the network connection we'll try to get back Mr Ananoju in the conversation but we really need to ask you know dictatorship really is a big challenge. Idris Derby was one of the longest serving presidents you know leaders in Africa ruling since 1990 that's terrible that shouldn't be done for a sixth term you know. So good to know we have Mr Ananoju back just to get perspectives as to where we stand right now. Mr Ananoju are you here with us? Yes I'm here with you. Okay did you get my question the other time? Yes the question that's what I'm telling you the important thing as you started as you stated Chad is not a manatee and Chad should not be a monarchy instability in any part of the sub-saharan Africa structure is a threat to stability everywhere else we should see this opportunity to not tell the junta who are taking power and who are very likely to justify everything that they have done because for them what has been there for the past 31 years is normal it's not normal we must not notch them towards an inclusive arrangement where a broader membership of the Chadian society and are allowed to come into power if you do not do this you're going to continue to have the underlying disruptions that were there during the time of Mr Idris Derby and we continue to be there if you do not negotiate inclusion of the broader membership of the society into power share. Okay so Mr Ananoju staying with the security situation because what we've seen right now we've seen pictures you know in in Jamina Chad of you know the military basically on the streets it seems like you know the country is becoming militarized because of the threats of you know the FACT coming into the country from Libya but in the case that this breaks out into a conflict right looking at the reputation of the Chadian army we know how they've been involved in UN missions in Mali we know how they've been involved in assignments in you know as far as Burkina Faso in EJ how they've also collaborated with Nigeria to tackle Boko Haram so looking at the the reputation of the Chadian army if this eventually breaks out into a crisis do you think that they have the capacity to actually you know quell the rebellion from Boko Haram, FACT and other insurgent groups. Yes they have had capacity to send off the insurgents and where the problem will come is when they have the vision internally because don't forget he was killed just a day after he had won another uh never ending term so if they're able to negotiate internally amongst even members of the junta to agree on how to move forward because you remove Mr. Idris Derby you replace him with his son it is a status quo all you've simply done is push rhetorics to maintain the status quo so you need a more inclusive society that I believe is the only part towards progress in Chad and other places around the Sahel you need now to start to impress it on that son of Idris Derby that greater power share is necessary even amongst the members of the current junta that worked with Mr. Idris Derby and then more members of the Chadian society because there was insurgency because of lack of inclusion so it will not stop the only problem you have is when the internal members of the current junta starts squabbling among themselves that this should not be a monarchy where a father leaves and then the son takes over when they are able to erase that internal problem they will be able to deal with the external confrontations coming from the larger membership of the Chadian society. So Nanduja I would like you to also speak on the influence of the international community that maybe has also assisted Idris Derby or assisted him rather to stay in government for three decades and what do you what role do you think that they should play at a time like this where do you think France you know may want to come in here in order to achieve a peaceful Chad. That's why I call Chad I mean that's why I called France. France is the most important in this it's a very very G3 colonial power it does not want any instability not because it likes society to become a good one no it is no one is ability so that those that are in power will continue to play to its interest like puppets that's so we need to beg them to please allow stability and then we will then from there ask for the progression which will be the progressive inclusion of a larger percentage of the Chadian society but yes you have Chad on board yes you need to reassure the United States that the cooperation that they got from Mr. Idris Derby will continue under the new circumstances that will then calm them down then you now look for internal inclusion before you progress into expansion of power sharing in the larger Chadian society. I think that's the part of it. Yeah but if you if you say you know they don't want crisis they don't want any chaos in Chad because it affects their interest and at the same time the FACT rebels would like to see Idris Derby's son out of that position how does that work then because if the rebels aren't going to allow Derby and his family to continue to be in power and at the same time France seemingly would like that it continues as long as their interests are protected how then do you you know put the both side by side well that means we have brought out the the real cross of the matter in the center a lot of people inside the current dictatorship and members of society outside fighting with the rebels they are all united in ending the monarchy of the Derby family that's where you will find a greater percentage of the Chadian society speak with unity that is where I believe ultimately the whole people must work towards but for now the only way to stabilize the junta and avoid an inflation is to allow Mr. Derby's junta to have a relative eye out of peace from which they can now work to understand that the greater Chadian society will not accept further all right since the last misanalogist sadly enough and I think the most important thing we need to really focus and learn from the Chadian situation is what the standard of leadership should be in Africa because we see this dictatorship style military style you know leadership across different african countries and miss Anand you can hear us yes I can hear you I said finally I wanted to get your thoughts on what the standard of leadership should be in Africa because we've seen the situation play itself you know time and time again when you know presidents stay beyond their term they extend the constitution you know just so they can stay in power beyond the tenor you know this dictatorship style thing this monarchical military style leadership but what should the standard be for african leadership going forward the standard should be democracy all the way africa is a plural society and the very diverse communities the democracy is not perfect but it's the system that has short the maximum inclusion of the largest number of the population so all over africa we should strive for democracy the sit tight strategy you saw uh mr debbie uh enjoyed was very bad for africa was very bad for Chad he actually damaged society he didn't allow for democracy to continue that would have been a very good thing you can see uh what he did is what you see our people try to be me in some parts of the sahel and nothing that should be stopped uh so we started off the institutionalization of secured environment and peaceful society in child will also help the rest of people across the area where child doesn't exist all right it is very important that africa embraces and stays in an inclusive democratic system i think that's the very best right now we do not have anything that compares to an inclusive democracy society all right kachan ojo uh thank you very much for your time this morning thanks for speaking with us uh we'd like to thank you for having you're welcome all right stay with us uh still here on the breakfast and plus tv africa now we're bringing in conversation down here to nigeria uh the minister of communications and digital economy is uh pantami is once again on the front burner as he has been in the last one week uh we're speaking next with uh two persons to share their views on new revelations from the past of visapantami we'll be back