 Okay, good morning everybody once again, good morning to all the online students, all the students and each of you who've joined us on the e-learning course. So quick recap of what we did last week, any brave soul who wants to share what we did last week. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, all right. So there was a, there was a homework that I had asked you all to do. I don't think anybody has, you submitted? Okay, okay. Still in the process. What about the rest? Still in the process. What about the other students, online students? It's easy to be on that side of the screen. No one will ask you. Okay, it's still a requirement. Okay. All right. Okay. So we're going to today focus, as we said, you know, we were looking at the frame of reference law the week prior, then we looked at a model, the ABCDE model. And we said, one of the important things for the, for the Council to move into that process of learning and process of change is through entry into the frame of reference. We said that there are three stages in the learning process, which is exploration, understanding and action. And today we're going to look at the first stage of exploration. Next week, we look at the other two that's understanding and getting into action. Okay. I'm, if you are following through the notes, he's asked about explain the assignment, is it about the, about the assignment. If you did listen to the last class, the ABCDE model, I'd like you to take one of your examples and work through that ABCDE model. So the, if you need to understand what the ABCDE model is, go back to last week's recording. Okay, to understand what ABCDE is, both the model is put up as well as an example is put up of what we had discussed last time. That's also given in the stream. Okay. So that's basically, I'd like you to take a personal example of how change can take place in your own life over some things that you may be going through or struggling with. So that's, that's the assignment. Okay, so if you want to know about the ABCDE model, go back to last week's class and recording. If you want to have the, the, the template, the template is there on the stream. Okay, Chhira. All right. Okay. So on the notes, I'm sorry, I don't have the notes opened, we're on page. Yes, stages in the helping process. Page number 21 is the, okay, hang on, let me just look. So if it's page 21, correct. Yeah, it is right. That's the same one. Page 21 is what we are going to be looking at at the stages in the helping process. Okay. So some of this that we had already looked at when we, when we spoke about, so before we get into the stages of counseling, what is the first task? The first task is to establish a feeling of trust. And how do you do that? Trust, trust happens when you're able to build a certain rapport, you know, you're able to connect with your counseling, get to know them, help them see that they are comfortable with you and building that trust. So what is trust? It is that they are assured that they can rely on you. Right. So trust is that reliance on your character, your ability, your nature. So that's what they're looking for to be able to build that trust. So you as a counselor should be able to establish this condition for them to be able to build established rapport, to establish trust, to build an attitude of understanding and acceptance, a sense of warm attitude, a sense of deep interest that you are showing in your counseling. So what is important to remember is that your words and your behavior needs to come from your attitude, from your character, right? So we spoke about this attitude last time, we said unconditional, positive regard, we said, genuineness and we said empathy, it comes out through your words. So trust is slowly built when they are able to see that you are consistent with this kind of a character that you are displaying. Okay. Right. And how do you establish that rapport when, of course, there is confidentiality? Okay, that's important that you are building that sense of confidentiality. Okay, there are some other smaller things, which we will probably come to at a later point, later point of time. Okay. Now, coming into that into the learning process. Okay. So when they're looking at the first, the stages, the stages is divided into three. Now, it's important in anything that you do, there, there be a framework or a structure. So counseling, just like that, counseling also follows a certain framework or a certain structure, because it is very helpful for you as a counselor, as well as for the counseling. Otherwise, it becomes like a, you know, a mindless conversation. If there is no, there is no beginning, there is no end, you're just chatting, right? Others like it'll be like chatting to a friend, right? When, when you don't have a specific structure in, in mind. Now, remember, even though there is this structure, it doesn't mean it should be very rigid that you go from stage one to stage two to stage three. That's not the idea. But you should generally have a larger perspective, like a reference, it's like a map, right, that you are, you have to navigate through, through this, you probably after you've understood some part of it, you may need to explore some other area, maybe you have not done that earlier. So the main three components of this structure of counseling is exploration. Now, what do you mean by exploration is, what is exploring? You are exploring what is their current? Like, suppose you want to make a dish in your kitchen, what do you do? Okay, so you will explore how to do it. Next, you will look for, explore your fridge or your pantry to see what all ingredients you have, right? So you are, that's what you're doing, right? So it's very similar that you are reviewing. When someone comes to you, you're reviewing what that present situation is, what is the situation that they have come to you with. So you're, you are actually asking those right questions, and also being able to express what, what they're feeling through what we spoke about last time. And you're just exploring and beginning to understand their entire situation. Okay, so that's the first stage. The second stage is a level of understanding. What is that level of understanding? You are helping your counseling to move from the old state into a new state or into or a problem state into a solution state, okay, or an old state into a preferred state. So that's what the understanding is. So as you are talking, you're getting and helping the counseling to think about the new state that they want to be in. And the last one is action. Once they understand that there is a new state, then how do you move into that new state? So that is, this is the place where the, the, the counseling will move into that place of action. Okay, so clear understanding is, I'm sorry, exploration is you are reviewing what their problem or their situation is. What is understanding? You're helping them move from their problem state into a, into a new state or a solution state or a preferred future. And the third is the implementation, which is the action of them actually having to do it. Okay, now in all these three stages, you are going to be using skills. And these skills are what we are going to learn after learning these stages. Okay, so it, this is like, what do you say, like the, like the, I'm trying to get the word, sorry, like the backbone. Okay, it's a backbone of the entire counseling process. The flesh comes in through your skills, the skills that you use. Okay, so this is the structure and the flesh is all the skills that you would use, which we will learn two or three classes later. Okay, now we're going to be mainly focusing on the first stage today, looking at the stage of exploration. Okay, so as I, as we had, as I had shared with you, the stage of exploration is the one where you're actually, where you're looking at the current state that the person is in the current state that the person is in. So this generally is that initial phase or the first phase of counseling where you are exploring what their problems are at a deeper level. Okay, you're getting to understand their problems at a deeper level. Alright, now the exploration phase has two subsets to it. The first is the assessment and the second is the problem identification. Okay, the assessment and the problem identification. Now, this is, this does not follow a chronological order. That means you don't finish assessment first and then figure out the problem. This can happen like a kitty, right? It happens here, it happens there. And that's, that's the flow. The natural flow that you may need to build up to, to understand. So what is when you're looking at assessment, you are looking at every aspect of the person's life. Alright, you're looking at every aspect of the person's life. So, for example, when the person comes in first, what's the first thing you need to do? You need to know their name, no? Right? That's the basic thing you need to know. Maybe you need to know their name, their age, what they're doing, whether they're married, you know, some things, that's what you will do normally with someone you meet first time, isn't it? So, so also in this, it's a, it's, it's a respectful thing to understand about them as a person rather than calling them as a councillor, you will call them as the name, okay, Mr Ram or Mr, whatever, right? So understanding what is your name, how old are you, where do you come from, what do you do? This is also part of exploration, isn't it? Because it gives you an idea about the person. It gives you an idea what, just tell me, you've got the name, you've got the age, you've got the, maybe their educational qualification, you've got where they're working. What all can you understand from these four details? So many things, like what? Okay, but it can tell you, yeah, it can tell you about their lifestyle. It can tell you about, yes, that you know, what kind of a probable social status they're coming from, right? It can tell, it can tell you so many things, right? So, it is important to know this because as you are getting these details, you're also building your understanding of them as people, all right? So exploration is all about knowing a little bit more about them. So now, even as like I said, even because this assessment is coming first, that doesn't mean that when a person is coming crying to you, telling you about their story, you say, wait, wait, wait, wait, don't tell me your thing, let me finish first, all these details like filling up a form, it's not like that, okay? But for the sake of needing for you needing to know what is involved is why this is this chronology is given. But it should come more, what do you say? It should be ingrained into your conversation, okay? So what are the different areas that you will assess? Basically, there are around 10 areas that has been listed over here and it's kind of helpful to know about these. Now, it doesn't mean you may need to know all of these 10 areas for every person that you are meeting, okay? Did you get that? You don't need to know all the 10 areas for the person you're meeting. Like for example, you're meeting a, let's say, a young adult and he's talking to you about his work, some problem at his work. So you may need to find out some details like looking at the slide one second. So the person's not willing to say it's okay, you don't have to force them to, okay? Yeah, so if a person's coming to you for a workplace, so there is, maybe you will need to find out about their family background, maybe their social background, their family relationships, their occupation, their finances, but you may really need not find out about their sexual activity because it may not be completely related to their current problem. You get that? Yeah, so you make a good judgment about what is it that you may need to understand, all right? But there are some things that may be essential for you to look into. So some of the things that you would, the 10 basic life areas are what is, what's put up over here. So the first one is yes, naturally, the family background, what, which is you're looking at their parents, it's called the family of origin, family of origin and the family of procreation. Family of origin is your parents and the counsellor's parents and their family. Family of procreation is if they're married, their wives or their husbands and their children, that's called the family of procreation of the family of origin, okay? But family of origin sometimes is very useful because it can give you significant insights into how they have worked, okay, or how they have been brought up. So that becomes a key factor. So you can ask about their number of siblings, their birth order, what are the family occupations that they have, whether the, whether the family members are alive, whether they've passed away, what have the family members done like the father and the mother, what kind of background do they come from, what kind of a qualification they come from. This is, this is very, very useful. It's useful information, all right? Especially let's say when you're dealing with a marital issue, a couple, really knowing the background of where they come from will help you see why they behave and how they behave in their current relationships, in their current marriage, okay? So the first is the family background. The second is the social or the emotional background, which means how, what kind of social contacts do they have and how do they cope emotionally? All right? What do they, what have they done in the past to deal with emotional problems? Now, how do you determine this? You don't have to say, okay, tell me how you cope emotionally. That's not how you maybe ask that question. The way that you ask that question, tell me a time that you've had a significant crisis or a difficulty. How did you, what did you do that? How did you feel? How did you, how did you cope at that point of time? So make it specific to situations and that's how you can get a little bit more of an understanding or knowledge. In that, you also look for major events or trauma, which means has there been abuse in the past? Has there been any kind of family discord? You know, has there been divorce in the family, family of origin? Has there been any major illnesses? Have there been major life events, life changes, maybe, you know, moving away from one faith to another. These are all major events that can take place. So that that again is a very helpful assessment to do. The third is current family or social relationships. So what are you doing is you're exploring what their present relationships are like in their homes between their between their parents, siblings, work, colleagues, neighbors, church, what is the kind of social setting that they belong to and how do they relate in that, that part of it. Okay. Next is occupation and academic background. So what is this? This is all about what they have studied, which colleges have they gone through, what experiences have they been in, how their work has been, where have they worked, how many jobs have they quit? Why have they quit those jobs? What's been the general efficiency there? How has their work culture been? All of that again becomes an important thing to assess at that point. Okay, clear. Next finances. What are the, how, what is the financial setting or the socioeconomic setting of the person and, you know, how, what have been certain problems or pressures in that area? Have they gone through any kind of financial burden? Have they been, have they been, you know, multiple losses that's happened, debts that have been taken? How do they deal with money? Right? Next is their spiritual life. Are they in some faith? Do they believe at all? Do they, do they practice any kind of faith? Whether when it's a believer, you look at how maybe the place that they go to, what kind of fellowship they have, their disciplines of prayer, their disciplines of Bible study, their attendance in church, serving in church, all of that gives you again another area. Next is sexual activity. Now this is definitely something that you have to explore very, very sensitively, sensitively. Okay. Again, like I said, you may not explore this right in the beginning. Right now, suppose you are dealing with a couple who's have, who's married, you may not talk about this right then and there in your first session, you may wait for some time to determine that. So generally when you're writing your report, a lot of these may become, may still be unassessed till a later point of time that you're able to assess it, which is a perfectly okay thing. Right? So you're understanding what kind of sexual relationships have they had, sexual practices, what's been intimacy, what have been problems in that area. Have there been any addictions as a result of sexual concerns there? Okay. Next is recreation and leisure. What do they do to what hobbies or practices do they have to unwind and what do they do in their free times? That also can be helpful. Physical health. So again, it's important to know how they are physically coping, especially if they are maybe if there is some evidence of some physical problem, maybe that's something that you may need to assess or let's say if they are older kind of couples or older kind of people, that again that you assess it. And last is routine responsibilities. How do they handle different kind of tasks that are given to them? Okay, clear? Any doubts here? No? Okay. Now, even as we're going to go through this the next stage, like I said, in exploration, one is assessment and next is problem identification. You're going to identify what the problem is, right? So in order to make it a little bit more easier and not so academically oriented, we've put an example. Okay. And this Dennis's example is what we are going to look through today and the next week. So please remember Dennis. Okay. Dennis is going to be our friend for the next two, three classes. Okay. So this is a let's let's think about this as a maybe some of this information you already know. Okay, that you have, this is about a 19 year old boy. Maybe this information you already know because someone has referred you to him, referred him to you. So you know this information through what they are saying. Okay, so let's read through the entire case study. Dennis is a 19 year old doing his second year of engineering. He was recently found drinking alcohol on college grounds. When confronted about it by a professor, he became extremely argumentative and aggressive and was suspended as a result. Dennis has a history of getting into trouble at college for missing classes, failing to complete assignments and general rudeness to professors. Okay. Quickly, tell me key things that you have noticed here. Just so that you know, it also helps you to follow through and you're not blindly thinking about. So what all do you know here? Okay, his name, his age and what he's doing. So you know that he's a student is a young boy, 19 year old. Okay. So again, when you're thinking about a 19 year old, you must think about the stage of life that they are in. Right. So when you say someone is 19, you immediately know they are in their late teens. Okay. And the stage of life comes in front of you. You have a basic understanding of what it is. Right. Helpful. Okay. So what do you think was his problem? What is the problem that that others found? Yeah. So he was argumentative. He was aggressive, rude behavior. Disobedient. Okay. What is what Okay, so this is his behavior. What was he found? Drinking on college grounds. Okay. So this is your first hand information. So we've added in a little bit more information for y'all to help for it to be easier. Okay. So a number of professors have reported being concerned about Dennis's health. Sorry, became of David. Sorry, Dennis, Dennis's health and well being. And they have stated that they were sure that they had smelt alcohol on his breath on several different occasions. So was this just a one time? No, which means it has happened earlier. And many professors have been concerned about his health because of his state of drinking. They also noticed the deterioration in his college work as well as his general demeanor. Dennis was referred to a counselor for his drinking and behavior problem. Dennis has admitted that he has been drinking quite a lot and sometimes by himself to get away from things. Okay. What do you know additionally here now? Okay. He himself admits that he drinks quite a lot. Okay. Excellent. So he drinks to get away from some issue that is there. Okay. Which means what do we need to explore? He's struggling with something. Correct? Okay. So you know that much. You also know that not just the drinking is his problem. His academics and his general behavior also has been. Okay. All right. There's a little bit more now. Now this is maybe a little bit of assessment has already been done. Okay. Life areas reveal that Dennis had difficulty in coping with academics. So what does it show you? So he's been having difficulty in coping with his studies. What is he doing? Engineering. So shows you that he's had difficulty studying. His father's unreal expectations of him fulfilling his dreams of becoming an engineer. So what is his father's expectations that he will become an engineer? Okay. He resented his father for this because he secretly desired to be part of a rock band. Dennis was forced to join an engineering college. He was unable to apply his mind to studies. Alcohol became his escape from reality. Okay. So this is a little bit of assessment has been done. Otherwise, I won't be able to present it to you. All right. So you know a little bit more, which is so who is he probably fighting against his father? Why? He doesn't want to do. Okay. And he was forced to get into engineering college. All right. And right now, alcohol becomes his escape. And so it helps to understand what is going on. Yeah. He wants to be a he wants to be a musician or he wants to be a rock band singer. Okay. Now, now we're going to get into understand how do we do that kind of this exploration? Oh, sorry. So, however, Dennis doesn't see that there is a problem with his drinking and believes that the professor should mind their own business. So what does it show you? Yeah. So he he's not willing to he's denying that he has a problem. And maybe he doesn't want to be someone to tell him what or correct him. Yeah. Right. So this is how Dennis has come to your counseling room that he doesn't want to take help. He thinks it is yeah, he's absolutely fine. And the professors are simply making a big deal of it. Okay. But he's in your room because he's been sent by the maybe the college authorities to you as a counselor. Okay. So here is an unwilling person to to there. Now you have what what is the challenge here? Correct. But then he has to be there because he's part of the college maybe. Right. So what is your role as a counselor? Okay. Because that's what he feels others will do that you're going to judge him. Right. So you so the effort that it takes to build a rapport with him to help him see that hey, I am with you. I am here for you. Okay. No. So remember that Dennis has been in a circle or an environment where everyone seems to be pushing him to do something that he doesn't like. Right. Now you as a counselor if you're also going to go sit over there and say you shouldn't drink you should do this you should do that you're going to be one among that party. Okay. He will also return. He may not come back again. So does that mean we say okay. Yeah. Does that mean you say okay you can drink do what you want. No, that's not what it means. That's where your skills become useful. Right. To help him know that you have understood him because you have to bring him to that reality or that place that I have a problem and to understand what that problem is. Okay. Now remember the previous slide that we spoke about where you know life areas reveal about his father and all of that he's just told you this maybe that you know I I've never been good at studies. My father only wanted me to be here and you know I wanted to be in a rock band. So he's only given you context or information. He hasn't told you how he feels about it. Right. He's just told you my father wanted me to come in. That's why I came or I don't like engineering. I want to be in a rock band. Okay. And I don't like this and so you know I just go and drink with my friend. So he didn't say that I do this as an escape from reality. He hasn't said all of this. This comes as a result of the assessment. Okay. All right. So let's move on. Now in your first stage of exploration remember we said is an assessment. So we did that assessment by talking maybe and also like doing this hand in hand. Okay. But the first thing that you are doing is to help to identify what the problem is. That's your first thing that you're doing is you are identifying the problem. So first and foremost if you remember when we did in our class on understanding human needs I said no you peel a person like an onion. So what is the first thing that you need to look out look out for what is the most what are the five areas of functioning five areas of functioning physical emotional rational volitional spiritual remember jog your memory Francis remember. Okay. So what do you do first is you need to first is physical you need to check if there are any physical problems that is contributing to Dennis's difficulty. He's been aggressive. He's been argumentative. Right now sometimes when a person has drunk has had too much to drink that in itself can make them argumentative or aggressive. So too much of alcohol can make you can bring about some kind of physical changes and can make you argumentative or aggressive. So the first thing that you check to see is is there any physical problem you got that are you all confused. So okay. So there are sometimes some substances that people use like let's say certain drugs that people use can bring about changes in their behavior in their emotions brain changes. And so what will happen is it will be shown out through their behavior or through their actions. Yeah, let's consider this physical because depending on let's say he became aggressive and abusive right after he had alcohol. So you know that it may be a direct it could be a direct relation of he may have had many drinks and he's probably come back. So that's one thing that you need to determine you need to check. Right. Then you also check in other times when he's not having alcohol does he exhibit the same behavior. Right. So if he exhibits that same behavior then you probably understand that it is also very behavioral or emotionally related. If he doesn't then you know that it's more physically related which means he needs to get help for his alcohol first and foremost. Understood. Is that clear. Online students I hope that's clear. Okay. Anand could you just have have an eye on the chat so that in case there is someone who asked. Right. Okay. So so the first thing that you would do is determine if there if there are any physical problem because if there are physical problems that's what you will have to address first and foremost like for example when someone is significantly depressed there are medical conditions that can cause depression like hypothyroidism or a vitamin D deficiency can cause depression. Right. So that's the first thing that you may need to ensure that they do maybe they should go to a doctor and get these blood tests done to ensure that that is sorted out. Alright. Or maybe the person has not slept for one week and so they become extremely irritable. So there is an issue with the sleep and as a result it's causing some emotional or behavioral issues. So then you deal with the sleep you get that. So that's something we we should be aware of. Is there any physical contribution to the problem that the person's having. Alright. Now once you have eliminated that the the first thing how you identify the problem one of the first things you need to do is to be able to draw out and clarify what are the feelings that are associated to the problem. If they need to understand themselves and their condition more you have to draw out those feelings that are associated to the problem. Okay. So what you're doing is you are moving into the counsellor's emotional self and helping them to acknowledge that they are feeling a certain way that they are feeling negatively or that you have to bring them to a place that they are able to identify that there is a very strong negative emotion there. Okay. Why? Because if you don't acknowledge negative emotions that is what will sit festered in and cause trouble. Okay. So unacknowledged emotions always cause trouble. For example I'll give you a very day to day example of ours. Right. You have had a fight with a friend and you felt very very upset but you're not saying anything to the person. Many days go and one day what happens? One day it'll all come out. So it's not acknowledged. Right. So similarly when people are coming with the problem the first thing that we need to do is help them. You need to acknowledge that they're feeling a certain way and help them to come to a place of acknowledging that they have those negative emotions. Okay. Because it's important that you help them to label those emotions. All right. So the first thing that what you would do through this is you are drawing out and clarifying those problem feelings. So how do you do that? Now when Dennis is talking, when Dennis is talking, Dennis may be telling you about all of this. Right. And so you're going back to Dennis and probably saying Dennis I hear that you're extremely frustrated about the situation of yours or extremely frustrated that your dad didn't allow you to go to college, go to I mean be a musician. Right. So he may say yeah I feel disappointed because I cannot follow my dream. Right. So what is the skill that you need to do there? What's the skill you need to use there? So remember we spoke about it last time we need to empathize and guess that he's feeling a certain way. So when Dennis has said all of this I said Dennis what I understand is this is how you feel. You feel frustrated. You feel angry. You feel upset with your dad that he didn't allow you to do that. So he may say yeah I hate my dad. Like I resent my dad for forcing me to follow his dream rather than mine. Right. But then it has to come to that place that the counsellor voices that out and that happens only when you are empathizing and you are in his shoes. You are in his framework rather than saying Dennis if you keep drinking like this you're going to fail. Right. Dennis the professors don't like you. You better you better you you're there in a place of judgment. Right. But say Dennis I see that you know you're really angry or you're really upset and that is showing out in your work or showing out in your college. I see you're extremely frustrated because you're not able to do what you so what am I doing. I'm identifying those problem feelings. I'm bringing it to life whatever is stuck inside. I'm like you know unearthing it out and making it more larger. So you may say ma'am if if they're not talking about it why why even bring it up. Why because unacknowledged emotions will cause trouble will cause more problem. It will come out somewhere somehow. So if you don't acknowledge it and you stick on the periphery and say okay Dennis you have a problem with drinking. You have a problem with academics. You have a problem with your professor. These are the three problems I see. So let's do let's take you send you to a hospital. You know send you to be very obedient and third is send you for tuition. It doesn't solve the problem. Why because there is such deep hurt anger resentment inside. You have not touched any of that. You got that? So you are when you're identifying what the problem is you need to identify and clarify what are the feelings that are associated with that problem. You got it? Everybody? Students? Online students? Okay thank you Anthony Ravalli Prabhu good okay all right okay now apart from just so so this identifying feelings is not something that happens only once. It happens over and over and over and over again in your entire communication with them. The next thing that you do is you have to identify the problem behavior. So once you have a idea of those dominant emotions what is Dennis's dominant emotion? What do you think? Anger, frustration, resentment. He hates his dad right. So so those negative emotions of anger and resentment is there all right. Now once you have identified that the next thing that you need to do is to discover what should be the goal. What is the goal of the counselling to change this? Okay so one way to do that is you know they're saying you know I'm so angry with my dad. I hate my dad or I'm so frustrated with this entire thing. One thing of how do you identify a goal is asking them if this could change, if you could change the way that you feel what would you like to feel? So what am I asking them? I'm saying this is the way that you feel. If you could change this into something what would you like? So that becomes a goal. That becomes a goal. So he say I just want to have peace or I just want to feel happy. Remember it's not the yeah you don't give suggestions but it's not what you want. We know what he wants. He wants to be a rock star. It's not what he wants. We're asking what do you want to feel? So he will say I just want to feel peace or I want to feel happy. And one thing that I may ask is okay if you want to feel happy what is some things that you would like to do? So he's identified that that becomes a problem behavior. So that's what you're trying to do. You're identifying okay, you're frustrated, you're angry and so do you drink alcohol? So he may agree to that. He said yes when I'm angry and frustrated I just go and drink because I can't think of all this because that's how the assessment has come about. So that's probably already happened. So when you identify that you're identifying what is the goal they want? The goal may be to feel happier, you know to be at peace or to go to do to be the rock band. So he may say you know I'll feel peace if I'm able to get to being in the rock band. So you're identifying what is that behavior? So is it like we're asking like the goal like just a clarity engineer? So we're asking like with the problem that he had, he's facing, we're asking him what he want to do about it. What would he like to see instead of the problem? What would he like to see for himself? Okay or what is the behavior that we can work towards? That's what you want him to come up with, right? So it may just be I do I want to be happy with my dad or I want to be in the rock band. I don't care about what I feel about my dad, whatever. It may be many different things, but you want him to determine what the exact goal behavior is that he's looking for. No, you can ask him, right? So you're saying I feel, he's saying I feel resentment or I feel unhappy. So when you're saying, okay, if you could feel something else, what would you like to feel? You say I want to feel happy. So I'd ask him, how would you want to feel that? He says, maybe if I'm able to go to the rock band, I would probably feel that. So then I'll ask him, what are some of the ways that you can do that? Maybe he say, I should talk to my father. So you see that the conversations going that it actually helps in every area. So you want him to determine the goal that you want to move into. Okay, all right, we'll come back in 10 minutes after a break.