 Welcome everybody to another episode of the non-profit show. You joined us on one of the best days of the week, not for what you might think, because it is Friday. But on Fridays, we have our fabulous Ask and Answer episodes. We partner with Fundraising Academy at National University. They're very generous and they lend us one of their talents. These folks come from all over the country, sometimes all over the world, and then they answer the questions that come into us. And so we get to have a little dialogue. We don't always agree on what the right answer is, which I think makes it even more fun and more interesting. And today we have, back with us, Moohi Kwaja, one of the trainers at Fundraising Academy. But also, I've got to say, I think this is kind of more interesting. Really, Moohi, as the co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation, you bring a different lens of things, because you work in the non-profit space on more of a national level. And so this is a really fun opportunity for us to get your voice. And we'll learn more about some of the things that you're working on later. But at this point, we need to make sure we thank all of our partners that join us day in and day out. They include Bloomerang, American Non-profit Academy, your part-time controller, non-profit thought leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, non-profit nerd, and non-profit tech talk. If you want to get to any more, any of our 900 plus episodes, you can find us on our app, streaming or podcast formats. We are wherever you want to join us. Okay, Moohi, are you ready for question number one? Let's do it. Okay, this is an interesting question because it's a loaded question. And I don't have the answer so much, but I think it's fascinating. It comes to us from Andrew from Orange County, California, and he writes, what do you suggest we do when it comes to finding a new treasurer for our board? This is an important role and we don't just want to hand it over to anyone. So this question is like, you would never ask this question like, how do we get like a new secretary or a new board member? Like the answer is not going to be the same. This is something, it's really perilous if you don't get it right, I think. What do you think? Yeah, you know, AMCF has recently had a changeover in our board. So we had to look for a new treasurer. And one of the things that we did was see who's filed our 990s for us in the past, see if there was any interest from an accountant that has helped us, has experienced with nonprofit organizations, have they helped the organization go through an audit, have they submitted 990s themselves, have they helped stay in compliance with state regulations, federal regulations. So these are some of the skill sets that we personally looked for in finding a new treasurer. I would say try to find somebody who is a CPA. Yeah. And that would be a great place to start. But yeah. Yeah. You know, it's really hard because I think technically you will find most boards or most CPAs and people in accounting and finance will recognize that when they're doing board service, they cannot act as that voice of authority. They are a board fiduciary, right? Member, board member with a fiduciary aspect, but they are not going to be the ones that do the audits, that do all the actual work. That has to have that arms length transaction piece, right? But they have to help advise the board if this is being done right or it's being done wrong, or they need to find, you know, a better system or maybe a better provider. So it's a leadership and knowledge-based role that is really hard. And I know, Moohi, in most every state of the union, there is a CPA society for that state, and most of them have nonprofit committees or sections because it's such a big chunk of the sector. It might be worth contacting your local society of CPAs. And in the case of California, there might be like a Northern California and a Southern California, I don't know, because it's such a big, you know, state. And find out if there's a way to connect to those nonprofit, you know, oriented CPAs and see if anybody's interested in volunteering because it's a critical, critical role. And were you able, have you found with the American Mism Community Foundation a treasurer? Or are you? Yeah. So oddly enough, our treasurer is based in Orange County. So Andrew, sorry, we took one candidate away from you. But yeah, we were able to find a great CPA who joined our board recently. So we're excited. Seriously, this has, this is not related. I mean, this just, you know, these questions just come in. So your offices are based in Michigan, but you have a board that comes from across the country? So nationally, we were founded in the San Francisco Bay Area in California. But as a virtual organization, we don't have any primary office. We use the San Francisco Bay Area as our headquarters. So we're registered with the state of California. And nationally, our staff is in Pittsburgh and Virginia and Detroit. And our board members are in the Bay Area and so Cal in New York. And we operate nationally. So we try to have board members from different regions so that we can better connect in other communities and have people learn more about AMCF's work. Okay. Cool. That makes sense. You know, as much as I identify you as the co-founder, I just assumed it was like a Michigan based organization. I had no idea. That's cool. Okay. Well, Andrew, like Muhe said, sorry if Muhe's group stole your potential board, your treasurer board never. But it's an interesting thing to look at and you're right. You've got to be looking at this with a lot of strategy. Let's go on to our next question. And that comes to us from Chandra in Las Vegas. She writes, we will be having our first gala next month. Could you recommend some best practices for post-events? We will use volunteers to assist with this or these tasks. Yeah. So I love this question. The stewardship aspect we've talked about in the cost selling cycle is one of the most critical steps just as important as receiving the gift. So when you are looking at your registrant list, see who actually attended and then from that see who actually made a gift. And I would pull all of those reports that you can that help you with that information. And then ask the volunteers to write thank you cards. Develop a script based on whether somebody gave whether somebody attended whether somebody registered and didn't attend and segment that script accordingly and drop those postcards in the mail or little thank you envelopes or we missed you envelope. Whatever you can to personalize it and get those out within a week or two of the event and it's a nice touch point for those who registered and attended and made a gift. So I would say that is one best practice you should look into the other is of course you know sending your thank you for attending email that goes out to everyone. And then you also want to look into more personalized one on one outreach asking a survey for feedback how the event went what went well what could have been better. And there's a lot to learn in those areas. Okay, especially for your first event. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good idea. That might be a little hard to hear or hard to swallow for some organizations to get that feedback but I think it's I think it's smart little scary. You know, we had a guest on earlier in the week Kevin Spikerman and he made a really interesting comment which I felt like it was kind of one of those moments that I should have known this but he made the comment that at a gala or an auction event. Make sure that you are recording, you know writing down the name and the bit paddle paddle number for folks that were in the game on higher level numbers but maybe didn't win the bit. Because if they got up to let's say, you know, they lost out on a $5,000 bid for something and they they went all the way up to 4500. That means they have some sort of capacity they might not have definitely but you know, get them out to coffee get them to find out how you can, you know, build start building a new relationship and I was like, yeah. Because usually there's only one winner right and everybody else that had marched up to that higher amount. And I would even contact the organization or business that donated the auction item and say hey, we have a second person at 4500. Would you be able to donate a second one and see what happens there. Right, right. Yeah, I think with some of these bigger items, especially when you have travel to find out if there's a way to get, you know, multiples of that I mean if it's like an autographed, you know, football or something we only have one. Okay, that's one thing. But if you have some opportunities for doubling up on that experiential opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Shonda, I hope this helps. Good luck. Remember the hard work happens the day after your event, not going into your event. You might think it does, but really to Moe's point it's the stewardship issue that's really, really important. Okay, this is another interesting question and given that you shared with us that you are working with board members from across the country. I think you're a great person Moe, he told us this. It comes to us from Jackie in New Orleans and she writes how important is board of directors on boarding. We have a few new members, but they are at different levels. Should we do this all at once or do it with each new board member as they come on. We have a lot of different opinions in our nonprofit on this topic. So onboarding for those of you who might not be familiar with it, it's just like you would onboard a new employee. You have expectations set. You have, if you have documents that need to be secured or signed like NDAs or HIPAA laws, anything that might be of a legal policy that needs to be addressed, signed off on or navigated, that's when you would do this. So you get that done really before they start acting as a fiduciary or voting or participating. But this is a heavy lift for a lot of folks because you might have one person, right? And then you got to do all this. Do you wait? What do you think and how have you done this Moe? Yeah, I love this question. AMCF is down to three board members right now. So we're actually recruiting for board positions. And when we have onboarded people, sometimes they've been two at a time, five at a time, things like that. So we almost have like term classes of board members and try to do the onboarding together. Sometimes schedules don't align, so we do them one on one. But at a bare minimum, like you said, we have an NDA, we have a board agreement that they also sign what the expectations are. Term limit is three years, making a meaningful financial contribution to the org annually, connecting us with their network. These are all things that they sign on and agree to. So beyond that, it's also taking the time to give them the history of our organization, the different programs and services that we offer. And sometimes that could be an hour call or they have a lot of questions. So we want to make sure that we are providing them with enough time that they feel comfortable learning about the organization. And typically these questions are even asked before they joined the board. But then once they join, then there's a formal orientation. So Jackie, I'd be interested in, you know, maybe even are the differing opinions in the nonprofit coming from the board members themselves. And we've had board members that were critical of our orientation process. They were like, you know, let's have mentor mentee on the board that kind of walks us through and it's their responsibility to be like answering all the questions that they have. And you can go about it differently a few different ways. But I would say that the orientation is a critical point in order to engage. And that's the board members stewardship plan, right? They need to be stewarded in being board members as well. So when you say we, is this like walk us through in your experience? Has this been like staff, CEO leadership or board chair or everybody are like, because, you know, information is only as good as it is accurate, right? Yeah. So you got to make sure that the message being delivered is accurate, right? And consistent. And consistent, consistent. Yeah. So typically that has been led by the co-founders. And whether it was myself or we've had a co-founder that was a board member and board president before. So we have split the duty but sometimes it is the board chair that is on the board interviews and also the orientation process and our board president currently was the past treasurer of the board. So when it was coming time to recruit the current board treasurer, they were actively involved in the process. So it's been board members, it's been some of the co-founders and we do this orientation for our staff members as well. We just hired a director of finance. So we had to do orientation with them as well. So we treat it the same, but we want that presentation to be accurate, consistent and everything like that. So that's an interesting thing because what I hear you saying is not maybe, it's not necessarily what I would have thought, but I think it's smart. And that is to take that orientation that you might be doing for staff. And especially as you navigate from C-suite to board, there should be a lot of alignment. And so you have that, not a one and done, but I would imagine you got to be like 90% the same information, right? Whether you're staff or your board. Exactly. Yeah. And then the roles and responsibilities is what's different. But yeah. Interesting. Well, yeah, Jackie, you know, I'm a man. I'm a big believer in this. And I also think that I don't think you need to just do this for the new board members. I think there's no harm, no foul in doing this with existing board members. You know, it freshens things up. Maybe things change. Maybe it reminds them. Maybe it re-sements a relationship, you know, or a value to that stewardship. So don't just look at as we do this once and then we never have to address it again because that's just not realistic. These board members oftentimes serve other organizations and they have lives. They have, you know, they're being tossed and turned in their communities and at home and in their businesses and in their work life. So to readdress some of these things, I think is a healthy thing personally. Yeah. And to that point, like AMCF hosts annual meeting with the board where they go over all of these responsibilities and the bylaws and articles of incorporation and what their duties are. And then there's a separate meeting that is the strategic plan where we took briefly on the programs and services and goals of the organization. So on an annual level, that is twice that they're going through this and then their own onboarding. So it just reinforces what they should know and should be doing. Yeah. I think that's smart. Let's answer some more questions. And then I want to ask you a question about board cultivation. I know. So I'm going to come back to that because you said something and it's a different conversation. Let's get to Carrie from Seattle. She writes, does the CEO or executive director of a nonprofit ever have a vote on the board? Well, I've never heard of this. Some of our board members think it is a good idea and that it might help us to be more structured in our board management. This is a fascinating question. I've never, ever seen this question. What's your response? You know, I have seen where some executives in a nonprofit sit on the board. I don't know exactly how they operate, whether they have to, you know, abstain from certain voting topics. And if there are those parameters, then I think it could work. You know, when I started AMCF, I've never been a board member just to avoid any exactly. So they respect my opinion, but they make their own vote in choices. So it is a healthy dynamic. But I have relinquished any sort of control in that aspect because I just want the organization to be more effective and healthy and don't want egos involved. Right. I mean, for me, this is absolutely not done. The CEO works for the board. That's why we have a board chair. The CEO should not run the meeting. The CEO should help the board chair with a board liaison. That's the key element to structure, get those things done, compliance. And I agree with you. The board, you know, should listen and have the CEO have the opportunity to give their report, weigh in on things in a structured meeting. I'm a big believer and I'm aging myself, dating myself and Robert's rules of order, you know, just a, you know, like a structured thing. So it's just not like a free for all. But I think that this is a big problem, a big problem. And we, we see this with founders and call it sometimes founder syndrome. I mean, so I don't think it's a healthy thing at all. And board members should never be compensated. So that's like the one thing that I've always learned and heard. So in that aspect, I completely agree with you. Yeah, right. I mean, God, we didn't even add that because you're absolutely right. I mean, no, it's, it's definitely something that we should, you know, separate. And I think keep it cleaner and keep it more, keep the integrity of what a non, how a nonprofit structure functions reports out because it's just, it's not done. You know, it's not illegal. But, you know, it's just not done. And I think you will find that most nonprofit organizations have this in their board policies or in their, you know, bylaws where it's it discusses structure. And so, yeah, I think sometimes it's easy when you get maybe short on staff, and you get a little fearful about, Oh my gosh, we only have a few board members, what are we going to do. So this leads me back to the question that I have to ask you, which is not on the deck. It's a curveball. Get up your catcher's mitt. What are you doing? Yeah, that's right. You can tell I'm in baseball mode because, you know, season ending here. What are you, what are you doing about this? If your organization only has three board members, and you only have three year terms, you're looking for people that fit a specific criteria. I'm assuming you're not taking people outside the Muslim faith. What do you do? We'd be open to it. You know, that's not a criteria. It's just really what is the board members connection to wanting to be in a Muslim serving organization. Right. So there's no like, that's not one of the requirements. But we are actively recruiting for people with skill set in marketing with skill set in philanthropy with skill set in web development and a whole host of categories. So we're definitely looking for people who have the time to roll up their sleeves. It's more of an active board. And we meet monthly. And it's a three to five hour commitment per month is what we say. So we're looking for people who can commit to three years. And, you know, a lot of people are testing the water. So some are joining our host committee for the annual symposium and most of philanthropy awards and then interested in engaging further if they have a good experience testing the waters. So, yeah, we're actively recruiting and looking for people who can help out. You know, it's fascinating that you seem to have identified a path that it's not just like get on this board and start working. I love your idea of like that. And maybe that's, you know, you always talk about this with us and that's the stewardship piece. Navigating somebody in through the organization to see if it's the right fit for them as well as the right fit for you. It's pretty dangerous. Yeah, thank you. I mean, I can think about my my board service. Very few organizations ever came to me and said, Do you want to start here to see if you want to go there? It's generally just, you know, we be on the board or not, which is not a good idea for anybody. Right. Not a good idea. Interesting. Are you as a co-founder stressed out about this? Do you see that it's moving forward? What do you what's your take on it? Yeah, you know, I think the last year has been challenging at the organizational level. We have a really strong and awesome board president who has been the glue in that last year, the kudos to our board president there. And I've had varying responsibilities. I've been a volunteer, I've been a contractor, I've been part time, the whole different mix. So it was working through the dynamics of our previous executive director and the board and what they wanted and seeing eye to eye and where I fit. So now I'm taking more of the lead in the organization and being a director of development, focusing on new business opportunities. And from the standpoint of our programs and services, our donor advice funds, you know, I've had three conversations with three individuals in the last three months that these people want to open up a DAP with $5.7 million with $2.2 million with only $3 million. And that's where we need to be. And we obviously have so many families that are contributing in the thousands of dollars. And we cherish those relationships and many of them have been with us since day one. But the potential of AMCF is exactly what I'm excited about. So does it cause me stress? Does it cause me anxiety? Absolutely. But I focus on the upside and the potential and that's why I'm in it. It's such an interesting thing because, you know, especially in the DAF world and of course any investment world, success begets success, right? I mean, people want to hitch their star to a wagon and then they're like, okay, yeah, look at what they're doing. I'm going to go up. They're moving up and so I want to go with them. And so that's a tough thing because I've got to believe at some point it makes it a little challenging for you to, I don't want to say deliver bad news, but navigate upset, right? And still see to your potential partners, hey, this is all good. We're going. We're hopping in a poppin, right? Yeah. And even in this last seven years of being a startup nonprofit, we've had to deliver hard news and there have been growing pains. And we started with Google Sheets to talk with our donors and communicate with them what their DAF balance portfolio was. But now we have a CRM and do all of that electronically and but there are still some accounting challenges where their balance isn't accurate and we're working through those challenges. So we're always looking at how can we deliver a better user experience. And I'm glad to be on the show in December to talk more exclusively about AMCF and donor advice funds. Well, before we let you go, you have again, you mentioned it briefly, but if you could share with us a little bit more, you have a big awards and community event coming up. Talk to us about that. Of course. So on Saturday, November 18, we will be having our Muslim Philanthropy Awards and annual symposium. It's modeled after AFP's Philanthropy Day. So we have a whole host of awards that nominations can be done for organizations. And we will be celebrating that day. And also the topic will be on endowments. And we're going to be examining a few national endowments that our Muslim led organizations have and their best practices, how they started. So it's going to be a great two hour program on Saturday, November 18th. It's virtual. Anybody can attend. And we'd love to have you there. You can find more information on our website. Awesome. You know, especially the way things are at this moment in time with global conflict and faith based issues that come through the human experience. I think this is a great time to kind of pull people together and reflect on some bigger issues. And so it'll be nice to hear more about that. For sure. And to that point, we have a interfaith giving circle confronting hate. So a very great way to put your feelings into action and put your money where your heart is and an opportunity for people to learn more. I love it. Yeah. That's fabulous. We will be talking more with you. You know, I know this is a part of your life and your leadership and we don't really dig into it much because generally, honestly, we have so many other questions for you and we were like, you know, we got to get through all this stuff. So I've appreciated, you know, the opportunity. Mohi Kuwaja comes to us today from Fundraising Academy at National University. They are our sponsor for Friday Ask and Answer. And it's always really fun to have Mohi on with us. I really give him the business because I swear he behaves differently with me than he does with Jared. So I just got to throw that out. I think I'm the age of your mother. That's probably why. Hey everybody, we want to thank our partners who join us day in and day out. They include Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out and really allow us to have these robust unscripted conversations like we've had today with Mohi. So thank you so much. Hey everybody, as we like to end every episode, we want to share with you our mantra. And I have to tell you, Mohi, I hear it in a different way. It seems like every day when I say this. But it goes like this, to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here for another episode of The Nonprofit Show. Thank you, Mohi. Thanks. Bye-bye.