 Welcome to Hope Today. We are so thankful that you're tuned in. I just want to remind you from 2 Timothy, chapter three, verse 16, to all scripture is inspired of God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and it teaches us to do what is right. We are your hosts today and we're gonna give you a foundation on God's word. This is my friend Tom and Angela and we're excited to hang out with you for the next 28 minutes and so many seconds now. Angela, who is our special guest today? Oh my goodness, you guys are in for a real treat today. You know, suffering seems to be a fact of life and quite honestly, her best friend loneliness has been on her eyes. So what about God? Where is he in the middle of our pain and when we need him the most? If God is everywhere all the time, why do some people feel his presence more than others? You do not wanna miss today's conversation with author and radio show host Suzy Larson, whose own painful journey has brought some surprising revelation through God's word. She's going to help us today uncover God's presence even when he seems distant. I know you guys like myself, we've all gone through some dark times and I think it's a really critical conversation to assess where is he in those moments? I think it's a conversation we all have with God at some point. I mean, I don't know if you've ever like yelled at God, I have like, what are you doing? Where are you? What's going on? I mean, I think that that's a pretty common human response to the difficulties we go through when we believe in an all loving God and all caring God for us. And yet we don't see that all the time. You know, that's that whole thing of having your house built upon the rock because the storms are going to come. That's right. I think in those moments too, if we will allow God to grow us, I have grown, you know, it's one thing to praise God when everything's going well. It is a whole other level of deep to praise him and worship him when things are falling apart, but yet you are honoring and you are choosing to trust God regardless of the circumstances around you. And it just, those are roots growing, I believe, within our own life. I agree, Amanda. And I think a lot of times in those spaces, it's really the only time he gets to capture that worship to himself that is separate from him. When we get to heaven and we see love face to face, we see hope face to face mercy we're staring at, you know, those moments, we're going to all be ready and able to easily give that hallelujah. But in the darkest moments, it is that place that produces the most beautiful worship. And I believe God loves truly. Well, it's going to be a great conversation, something that I know is going to be a benefit to me and to you as well. Right now, we're going to see if we can find out how much the hosts know about the Bible on Stump the Host. Well, we haven't seen these questions. Sometimes they're easy, sometimes they're hard. Play along with us, please. We need all the help we can get. All right, here's the first one. Very simple. What does Eve mean? Does it mean first? First? Yeah, she was the first lady. Angela? A woman, I don't know. Wait a minute, wait a minute. We might have to bring our guest in already. Is, I mean, Susie? Do you know? Okay, I'm going to take a guess the night before. There you go. I see what you did there. Doesn't work though, Susie. Sorry. All right, we've got a given answer here. Evelyn, Missouri called herself the first lady. All right, we'll say first. Mother of all. We're all far off. Well, that's pretty, anyway, all right. Okay, let's go to our next question. Which king had the longest reign over the kingdom of Israel? Was it Ziya? Man, I was going to say David or Saul. The longest king? This is the northern kingdom of Israel, I think, after they split. I think it's Ziya. What are you going to go with that? Let's go with Ziya. Ziya. Manasseh, dare I borrow the second one? Oh my goodness, my buddy. It is Monday and we don't make up. We are having a terrible time out there. Please stay with us. You're going to have to be blessed anyway. Here's the last one. The destruction of Nineveh was the fulfillment of who's prophecy. It was, oh my goodness. You got to pull this out, Tom. Oh, I know, I'm doing bad here. Who told you Jonah? No, but they didn't get destroyed. They repented for Jonah. The destruction of Nineveh was... Well, wait, was it Jonah's prophecy? I'm going to, it's something really... Wait a minute. Oh my goodness. Wait, who's prophecy was it? Wasn't it Jonah's? There was a prophecy of, oh my goodness. I can't remember now. We're drawing a blank. I don't know. Obadiah. Oh my goodness. Nahum. Oh my goodness. We haven't gone over three for a long time. There is a great show here, though, everyone. Just remember that. We are struggling today with some of the hosts, but listen, in life and through all of life, we experience struggle. We allot all of us believe in our minds that God is all powerful, all knowing, and all present, but sometimes we don't feel His closeness. When we are going through those dark times and when we feel alone, we often feel as though God has gone radio silent on us. Today, however, best-selling author, national speaker, and popular radio show host, Susie Larson sits down with us to offer some hope and insight to experiencing God's nearness no matter what. From her latest book, Closer Than Your Next Breath, Where Is God When You Need Him Most? Susie Larson, thank you, and welcome to Hope Today. So honored to be with you. Thank you so much, and thanks for not calling me on those questions. I loved being silent and watching you all. Listen, we're so glad to have you, and we're not gonna waste any time because you have so much goodness to share from your latest book. So Susie, you've gone through your own struggles of questioning God and His nearness during dark times. So would you tell us a little bit about those personal struggles of not feeling Him in the middle of your suffering? Wow, thank you again. So honored to be here. And though we don't have a lot of time for me to unpack my story, I wanna give you a short synopsis of some of the context of where I come from and why my walk with God is the way it is. And I was raised in a large family with seven kids. I was a people pleaser and a rule follower, raised in a denomination where I really had a sense that God was real. I sensed His presence as a child. I didn't know Jesus was accessible. And when I was nine years old, I experienced a significant trauma at the hands of some teenage boys, a sexual trauma. And my dad was the mayor at that time for 27 years actually. But so as a young girl, I was very aware that we were a public family. And I was so afraid that I would bring scandal on our family and these boys were connected to my brothers, friends of my brothers. And so I didn't say anything, but it opened up this canyon of insecurity. And it was like a private hell for me because all of a sudden hatred, fear, you know, constantly bracing for impact. And then to make matters worse, when I was about 10 years old, I was walking home from school and walking across the baseball field and a different group of boys were hanging out in the dugout and they ran out, ran me down, knocked me to the ground and beat me up and kicked me, punched me, pulled fistfuls of hair and I'm crying and they're laughing and they were beating me up for sport. But I was just this little girl and when they were done and they laughed and they walked away, I got up and I heard in my head, not audibly, but I heard, I can get you anytime, anywhere and God will never stop me. And as a young child, that's when I knew God was real and the devil was real. And I often say when I'm speaking at women's conferences that the devil sees your potential long before you ever do and all you gotta do is go to your childhood, those first moments when you felt like you were not enough. And as we jump ahead, I was as a young married mom, I'd come to Christ in my teen years and I had years of walking with God passionately, enthusiastically, I knew I was saved but I didn't know I was loved. And that's so foundational for surviving and not only that but thriving in the dark seasons because the enemy every day is giving us opportunities to accuse God or to trust him. So for me, during a six months stint on bed rest with a high risk pregnancy and a one and a three year old, my doctors let me get up one day and I got up one day and I tested the waters, met my old college roommates for lunch in the Midwest, fall, beautiful day. Back in bed by night, within two weeks from that outing, my face started to go numb. And a long story short, I had all these neurological fireworks going off in my body for three months, what was left of the pregnancy and it felt like God lost my address and people kept saying things to me like I won't give you more than you can handle which can I just say it's not helpful to someone who's in the fire of their lives and I don't even know that that's true. Paul even said we were crushed beyond what we could bear but God. But anyway, I delivered our son and within a year, my health went up and down and all around and spiraled downward and they ruled out MS and a brain tumor and found out I was unknowingly bit by the deer tick at that one day up. And again, I hear my ear, I can get to you anytime, anywhere and God will never stop me. All of that to say my walk with God began that way where there were moments where God would break in and I would hear his voice and he would affirm who he is or who I am but then there would be the silent seasons and I didn't know him well enough that I would start to panic. Did you change your mind? Did you confuse me with someone else? And this book really is this journey of understanding the character of God. You know, my husband is six foot three. He's an oak of righteousness. He's as steady, eddy and gentle and strong as they come. If someone came up to me and said, I saw your husband at the store yesterday. He got in a arguing match and then he punched this man in the face. I would tell him, you got the wrong guy. There's no way I've lived with him for 38, you got the wrong guy. And we've got to know God so well that in the silent seasons, we would know if you could peel back the sky in your silent season, you would see a father singing over you. You would see a smile that goes up to his eyes. You would see him pointing to angels and commissioning them to be activated on your behalf. So in the silent seasons, they serve a purpose and we in a little bit, if you want to talk about why we sometimes find ourselves in those seasons, but we must not doubt his goodness and his character. That's the only way we're going to get through those seasons richer than we were going into them. That is so good, Susie. And truly the question becomes, if God can intervene, why doesn't he? And that's a painful proposition, isn't it? Because Jesus did promise in this world, we will have trouble. And it does not do us any good for us to preach a gospel that says, all of the best things happen in this life because they don't. Jesus said, we will have trouble. But he said, be of good cheer because I've overcome the world. And what I've learned through much of the suffering that I've walked through is that God does temper the storm even though it feels like more than we can handle what he allows, he does redeem. And if you look in scripture, he really does treat his children differently. And it may not seem that way because we walk through horrifically hard things, but that he does temper the storm. He does redeem what we walk through. And I think if we can trust, if he's allowing me to walk through it, he's gonna see me through it. And what I know now with a 30 year battle with Lyme disease and I've come a long way and I'm way more healed, I should say, than I've been. I still deal with daily neurological symptoms, but I'm not the person I was. And I will tell you, I've got a firmer hold on God's word, on his character, on his promises, and I'm wiser to the enemy schemes. So the battle's not been wasted. But I think it's just critical that in those places where he's not giving you what you want, you've got to declare he is who he says he is. And he will do what he promises he'll do. And we don't camp in those seasons. We walk through the valley to the other side. And if we can trust his character, we will fare so much better. Suzie, so between the time of, you know, going through my suffering and seeing it redeemed, it can seem like he's very silent. Now, is that my fault? And what can I do when he seems so distant? I love that question. And I think it's a super important question. Is it ever our fault? Is it the enemy's fault? Is it God's fault? My first line of defense, so to speak, or my first response when I'm walking through a season where I'm not hearing God, is I pray Psalm 139. Search me, oh God, know my heart. Test me and know my anxious thoughts. Point out anything in me that offends you. Because, you know, the scripture says that daily the heavens pour forth speech. And sometimes we'll say God's not speaking when in truth we're not listening. We're over committed. We have a duplicity mindset where we're thinking of plan A, B and C. We are running so hard that we're not the ones listening. Or that we've gotten into a place where we are out of rank, where we are usurping authority or harboring a grudge or living a duplicity life. And we don't even realize those things until we slow down long enough to take some inventory. And that's why David said, you know, search me, oh God, know my heart. Point out things in me. Paul even said, my conscience is clear, but that doesn't mean I'm innocent. There's things about us that we can't see. And this isn't to say every battle is your fault and every silent season is your fault. But we don't know what we don't know and can't always see what we can't see. So I start there. And as my friend Maria says, start there. You know, search your heart. And if the Lord shows you something without any condemnation, repent and then roar. And if he doesn't show you anything, just roar. Because in those silent seasons, the enemy will waste no time to attack you in those places where you're weakest, where you're most vulnerable. So you've got to clear the playing field of any enemy occupation because he is a legalist. If you've given him access, he will take it. If you've got an attitude or a grudge or unforgiveness, he's on the field, right? And so you've got to clear the field of all those things and say, now Lord, okay, if I'm walking through a silent season and God's not showing me anything, this is a time for me to rehearse what he's said, to remember what I know. You know, like I always say, if you can't hear what he's saying, remember what he said, open up his word. Go through some of your old journals and look at some of the promises he's made to you because this is what makes you a warrior. This is how he trains your hands for battle. It's not wasted time. You're not just twiddling your thumbs. You're engaging your faith and putting your roots down deep into the Father's love. But you've got to start, I would say, with your own heart. Susie, I love that and I love the response mechanism to the difficulty. But let me ask you about maybe before that, can we seek the presence of God? Should we seek the presence? I mean, we've got the Holy Spirit. I mean, is there a difference in, you know, God's everywhere all the time, but is there a difference? It seems to me anyway that there is in a manifest presence of more of God in my life. I love that question too, Tom, so much because it is interesting to me how some people almost get offended when you talk about more of God. But I say, no matter how long you've walked with him, you hold the Dixie Cup and the ocean remains. I mean, I want you to imagine you got your little boy back at the hotel, you run down, you get him a Dixie Cup, you want to see the ocean, here it is. And he's like, well, I want more of the ocean. And you know what? No matter how long you've walked with him, there's so much more. It says no one can measure the depths of his understanding. John said, I must decrease, he must increase. Jesus said, there's so much more I would tell you, but you can't handle it now. I would say, you know, he's omnipresent, but there's manifest present moments. And we have real estate in our soul, basically. Our spirits are renewed in Christ, but our souls are that place where our will and our emotions and enemy stuff gets in there, and it's in that place where we submit to God. We resist the devil. He has to flee and we come into a greater awareness of God. And I will tell you after 16 years in radio of interviewing some really amazing leaders, the ones that I've interviewed over the years that kind of keep coming back, what marks their lives is a humility and a teachability. They all would tell you, I didn't know what I didn't know. You know, and I just would tell you that as we humble ourselves before God and we run hard after him, he draws near to us. And so for those who say it's not biblical to ask for more of his presence, I would just have to say I differ because there's lots of passages in scripture that speak of proximity. He's near to the broken hearted. He's near to those who fear him. He's close to those who call on him. The proud he knows from afar. There's a movement and a posture in God and he responds to his people. And I think that's absolutely amazing. In fact, scripture says he rewards those who earnestly seek him. And I think if you just say, ah, he's just omnipresent everywhere, it creates an apathy in your heart, you know, where otherwise it's like you can have as much of God as you want. And as you know that, you seek him above all else. I mean, what does it say in Hebrews? We throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. We run the race. We fix our eyes on Jesus. And I think I want more. I know him so much. I've tasted so much of him. I want more. There truly is no end to him. He's infinite and limitless. And I love that you brought up in that conversation, Susie, remembering. Today's scripture that we have is from Psalms 106-7. And it says, our fathers in Egypt did not understand nor appreciate your miracles. They did not remember the abundance of your mercies nor imprint your loving kindness on their hearts. In your book, you share this quote, which I love. And I would like you to just take a moment to unpack it. You say, we're prone to rehearse the things God has decidedly forgotten. And we're just as apt to forget the things God has distinctly asked us to remember. Could you unpack that a little for us? Well, Angela, you've quoted from my favorite chapter of the book, I have to say, because I marvel at the scandalous grace of God. When you think, in that chapter, I look at Lot, I look at Sarah and Abraham. And if you only look at the Old Testament account of Sarah and Lot, you'd even start to wonder, are they posers? You know, Jesus talked about the wheat and the tears growing up together, but especially Lot. Because when it came time to warn his family of the impending judgment, his family laughed at him. He lost his spiritual credibility. You know, when you think of what happened at their doorstep, he was still negotiated with the angels. It's like, he camped so long among the godly that you wonder if there was any faith in his heart. And then Sarah, when she got word that Abraham would be the father of many nations, she laughed and she nagged Abraham into sleeping with the maid servant. So, you know, you think about, these are kind of reputation records, so to speak. But you go to Hebrews, it says they gained a good reputation because of their faith. And I was in awe as I studied that story going, it's really scandalous that God has decidedly forgotten their sin. You know, we remember their antics that aren't so flattering. Heaven remembers their faith. And it's the same with us. The enemy wants us to repeat and rehearse all the ways we fall down. In other words, all the ways others fall down. Because if you're doing that to yourself, you're doing that to other people. Yet, Jesus has buried that sin in the sea of forgetfulness. It is scandalous when you think about what heavens remembering about your life, Angela and Amanda and Tom, will make your knees buckle when you see him, is your sin is so far out of God's mind. But when you forgave, when you didn't feel like it, when you smiled to a stranger, when you gave a cup of water in his name, heaven noted it. There is a massive distinction in heaven between those who love God and those who don't. Those who fear him and those who don't. And God is so taken with you that he's making note of every act prompted by your faith. That should inspire so much awe in us. And that's why I love Psalm 106 because I don't want to be a forgetter. I want to be in awe continually of his miracles. I want to be in awe. In the back that he sends new morning mercies to me before I even have a chance to blow it, right? And I want to perpetually imprint his loving kindness on my heart. To the point that when I hit the silent season and God or the enemy comes into accuse God in my heart, his loving kindness is so imprinted on my heart, I would say, you have the wrong man. I know my God, his promises are true. He loves me. And if he makes me wait, it's because he's making me ready. He will see me through and I'm on the winning side. Amen. Angela, I'm sorry, Susie. When we, we have people watching and I don't have a word of knowledge here, but I know someone is watching that this is hitting because they've gone through that difficulty. They've gone through that hard time and really questioned and wondered where God is, where he was at that time. What do they do right now? So they're hearing you and they're hopeful. There's a stirring, maybe something that's been dead for a long time and there's a stirring. What do they do? What step can they take to get to that place of trust in God again? I can't even tell you how much I want to wrap them up in my arms because I get that and I understand that. And I had a pretty massive health relapse eight years ago that I'm still working through and I found myself in this posture of bracing for impact and I realized you can't simultaneously experience God's goodness while you're waiting for the next shoe to drop. And I just tell you, as you imprint his loving kindness on your heart, as you think daily of the gifts all around you that he has bestowed upon you, someone once said, if you woke up tomorrow with only the things you thank God for today, what would you have? So what I want to just tell you as I get ready to wrap here is I'm thinking about the Israelites when they cried out to God for deliverance and they were enslaved in Egypt, God mobilized Moses to be their deliverer. And yet they still had captivity so embedded in their hearts that even though they saw all of these miracles, the sea parted, they were loaded down with the riches of the Egyptians. The scripture says not a feeble one was among them. I believe that means they were healed. They were set up for emancipation. And yet you jump ahead to Hebrews. It says that the promise did not benefit them because it wasn't met by faith. So our cries reach his ears. He's mobilizing an answer. But if all we do is stay in that place of perpetual grumbling, complaining, or even coddling our fears more than clinging to the promises of God, when the answer comes, it may not benefit us because it's not met by faith. So I say this with loving kindness. Imprint his loving kindness on your heart. Tell your soul, my God is good and he will come through for me. You have something to do while you wait for the breakthrough. It's those three things. Remember his miracles. Marvelette is mercies. Imprint his loving kindness on your heart. Get your heart in a posture where you are aligned in an agreement with the goodness of God, the faithfulness of God. So that when the promise comes and the breakthrough comes, you will benefit by it because your heart is ready for it. Susie, thank you so much. Your ministry is powerful. Thank you for those words of encouragement and really helping our viewers and ourselves to always feel God's presence. Thank you for being with us today, Susie. Such an honor. Thanks for what you're doing. Keep on keeping on friends. Wow. Yes. I say, all I kept picturing was like a house and Teen Challenge curriculum. We teach about the foundation and those spiritual truths that you believe. You stand on God's word. God's word fails. Not, it is God breathed. It is a sure foundation and the walls of your house is your will. My will to believe and to choose by my mind, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to follow God. And then the heating element within the house is how you feel. Now, let me ask you both a question. If the structure of the house is sound, the foundation and the walls, you know, your mind and your will have made up, does it matter the heating element in the house, whether it's cool or hot as to the structure of the home itself? It doesn't matter, no. So when she said you can't go by your feelings, that's exactly it. You might not wake up feeling saved every day, but you are because you've built the foundation and you believe and you're choosing to follow after God. And I encourage you to continue to let your house be built on that firm foundation. Don't be moved regardless of what storms come and how you feel. Do not be tossed to and fro. I believe that as a word for someone today. Grab hold of it. Don't be moved by your feelings. Stand on the word regardless. Absolutely. I love what she said. She said that you need to have his goodness imprinted on your soul. Okay, there's a goodness. I've called it the anchor of my soul that I've got to have that, that God is good and righteous altogether. That that's an anchor that no matter what the storms come and no matter what the enemy throws my way to try to smear the reputation of God to me. No, it's imprinted on my soul. It's anchored. I'm anchored to the rock that says this is God. He is good at all times. He is for me at all times. And he desires to mold in me the character of Christ. Do you realize that's what's being done? Look, we don't wanna go through hard times. I complain as bad as anybody when I'm going through hard times. I'm not this brave soldier through there usually. I'm a whiny little kid usually going through these hard times. But you know what? God is still is good. Have that imprinted on your soul today. Don't let another day go by without saying God. Can I know you like that? Can I have that kind of relationship with you? And he will respond. And you know what? You're gonna find him and you're gonna find hope today. On tomorrow's hope today, walking in God's power, presence and purpose. Join us as we kick off CTVN's 21 day prayer journey. And as we prepare our hearts to experience God's presence through a time of intimate worship and uplifting prayer. Don't miss tomorrow's hope today. Cornerstone Television wishes to thank all our faithful viewers whose consistent prayers and financial support have made this program possible.