 to another episode of I Have Notes, the show where people with surprisingly full IMDP pages discuss all things animation and creative. I'm your host this week, Erin. Welcome to a special prerecorded episode. With me, I have... Kelly. Hello, it's me. Coming to you from the past and the future simultaneously. With us today, we also have the wonderful Josh Ronellis. Y'all, what up? It's your boy, Josh Ronellis. I am here being recorded. Yes, hello, it is I. With us, we also have... Whoa. The Sam Mitchell. Oh, shit, it's me. It's me, Sam Mitchell. You got robot Josh? That's crazy. I'm gonna get into the show. No, we got VTuber, Josh. 11. Yeah. One day, one day we're gonna get in a car. Yeah, we're gonna get in a car of Josh and he's gonna be like, oh, hey, just so you know, this is all digital. Yeah. Yeah. That's like something you would do, Josh, is like replace yourself with a life accurate model of yourself. You know what? If you give me enough time and like a webcam and an Elite Motion Plus, I could probably do it and fool all of you. I will talk. I love that. Yeah, let's just, we'll start the fun now. So yeah, like Aaron said, we are prerecording this episode. It is the Friday before the election and this will come out the Thursday after the election. So we don't know what happened yet. On Thursday, maybe we still won't know. I can say it was weird to you. Either way, very hungover Thursday. Yes, still by Thursday. Very hungover. It's either gonna be grand celebration or a lot of maybe immigration looking to go to Canada. Yeah, which we can't even do because everybody's got the COVID. Speak for yourself, I can go. That's fair, yeah. I, yeah, we get a Tuesday after vote, which I've already voted. So I'm just like, okay, I got another day drink. Yeah. Yeah. That's gonna be a strong day drink. I'm taking Monday off, so I'm getting like a five day weekend. That's amazing. Yeah, today I technically had today off, but I'm here recording since, I like hanging out with you guys. Oh, well, how's the, let's start off, let's start off normal. How's everybody's week been? This is actually a Friday. We can actually like more say how's everybody's week been. I know. Erin, how are you doing? I mean, today was great. Previous two weeks, busy. A little show called Ruby coming out very soon. So that's been kind of hectic, very exciting, but very busy. Yeah, there's just a lot of last minute finishing things. And there's actually a lot of the art team is already moving on to volume nine. Oh yeah. We've been in the thick of volume nine for a couple of weeks now, so. But in those last couple of weeks also, then that meant you were hopping back to some volume eight stuff. Yeah, definitely. I'm like the solo artist working on volume eight, just trying to finish all the last minute things and whatnot, but it's been, it's been going. Yeah. I'm glad you got a little time off. Yeah, me too. Yeah, Josh, how you doing? I'm doing all right. I'm getting a little bit increasingly busy, but it's a good thing because we got our other show, our red versus blue, that's going to be coming out soon as well. Yeah. Ruby versus Blake, my favorite. But yeah, it's been busy because we're ramping up to make it look good. I'm doing like this post on it. So it's like polishing it, checking it. Oh, there's a hair there. I've lifted up polish it over and over again until you finally get like the final product. So it takes time, but it's worth it. So it's, it's been busy, but it's a good type of busy. That's mine. It looks so damn good. Yes, it does. I watched the intro so many times. It's so good. It's fun. Unreal is definitely a very fucking cool engine to be working on. It is. It really is. Would you say it's unreal? Yeah. Yeah. No, I haven't been up to shit. I've been, my week has been fine. I'm just, I sit here and do my job. Well, I stand here now. I was going to tell you. I got a bad back in like, I went to the doctor. Here's the new type five for this week. I went to the doctor a while ago, you know, I was like, everything hurts. And I don't think I'm that out of shape. And she was like, you're wrong, but it's not actually your back that's bad. And then like, keep on this is, the older I get, the more I hate going to the doctor because of the chances of like having a little baby. Well, bad news, yes. And also there's nothing wrong with it technically, but when you get a young doctor and you're older than the doctor, it's a new thing, right? It's a new thing. So this last one, I had this, I mean, I'm guessing 28 year old. And not that it necessarily factors into the story, but she's a quite attractive woman. Sure. It's not your back. You actually just have a very weak ass. You know what I'm saying? It's like, whoa, God, no, ugh. It's like that King of the Hill episode. So yeah. Isabel, you have no ass. She's like, yeah, your back is compensating for like all the like really high upper thighs like the gluteus and shit like that. And like, so now your back hurts more. So you need to do like squats and leg stretches and shit. I was like, okay. So now I'm standing at my desk, but yeah. Sam, we continue to be exactly the same because my ass is also not doing enough. Yeah. I have like a bunch of stretches I start doing. Yeah. Yeah, they give you the band and you got to do this thing with your leg. Yeah, dog. Yeah, we're there, we're there. Yeah. I have to do stretches before bed because I get really bad like restless legs. It's like painful and it's only one leg. It's like a nightly occurrence. So I have to like stretch and then go to sleep. It's different. I've been doing my, and I'm doing it right now. So I'm doing a terrible job, but I keep sitting with like one of my legs under my. Under your other leg? Under my butt. Yep, yep. And it's like hurting like under my knee. So I got this like foot resting for under my desk so I can remember like put your feet here. Stop being fucking stupid, Carrie. And it doesn't, it doesn't. I constantly do like my right leg under and I feel like that has given me a weird because it like makes you sit kind of like lopsided. It's like I got like a weird like hip dysplasia spine thing going on. So yeah, it's all bad. Like don't get old to the point of this conversation. It sucks. Yeah. Just a certain point, just, you know, there's other options. Now, one time I very briefly, I very briefly had like a, I was trying like a personal trainer thing. Clearly not keeping that up. But like I laid down on my back and she looked at my feet and like one of my legs was like two inches longer than the other. Cause it was all like jammed up in there. So she just like pulled it and it like, like it like went out longer again. And I was like, the fuck. Did you get a satisfying pop or anything? No, I want, I want to go to a chiropractor so bad, but I'm also afraid that like once I start, I'll like have to go. Yeah. I started watching like, yeah, I watched like compilations of like doctors like cracking people. Oh man. It's all over TikTok. YouTube too. It's everywhere. It's quite satisfying and it makes me want to go. Yeah. Like that's like the best form of advertisement for them. They've even got, like I've seen so many videos where they like, they'll put like a law of microphone, like where they're about to crack. Like they know what's about to pop so they can get like really good audio on it. I'm just like, holy shit. Okay. If anybody wants to crack my back and make a video out of it, I'll do it. I don't care. I, I've like, I used to like crack my back or just like sitting back on a chair. And then I realized that's probably not a, the best idea. The very best idea. Aaron, do you ever have to do like stretches for like your wrists and stuff? Sometimes I recently got like a little wrist pad thing for like my keyboard and my mouse. Why is it not an anime butt? Listen, I just, there's so many options out there. I couldn't choose. No, but before I got these, like I was definitely having a lot of wrist pains, mostly just from like resting my wrists, like on my desktop. But yeah, there's a few stretches, like pushing your hand backwards, I guess. That definitely helps. It's doing it right now. It's a pop. No, it's not popping, but I can feel it like stretching. Yeah. I think it's really, I get like wrist pains the most. Everybody stretch. Stretching section. If you're listening, stretch. Remember to stretch. Yeah. You're also like, what the fuck? Your fingers are going so far, but this is like my maximum right here. What? Bastards? Really? I don't even have like, I'm not even like, what is it? Get a pull. Yeah. You gotta push. What the fuck? That means you're a stiff old man. Yeah, you gotta. Yes. You're basically a corpse right now. This one's broken. It doesn't even do like the normal bend. Oh my God. That's the maximum it goes, but. Wow. I blew up the joint in the socket, like ages ago and had that. So it's like hardly a finger. But yeah, that seems insane. Like. Not. You just kind of curve your back knuckles. It gets a little bit more, but that still hurts like fucking hell. What are you doing to yourself? Yeah. I mean, it definitely does not feel good to go like. Yeah, it's not like. That. Yeah. I feel like I've been pretty lucky with never getting any sort of like, you know, hand or wrist like. Oh God. That's like my one fear computer so much. Yeah. Like I used to like it's like, I don't even have the like MLG callus anymore. I used to have that for like so fucking. How will people know you're a true gamer though? Yeah, right? Like you can't even get on a team if you don't have the callus. So it's yeah, I don't even have that shit anymore. So pretty lucky, I guess. Yeah, that's like, yeah, because like now I like I went for a period of time for a couple years, like probably 2017, 2019, like I wasn't actually at my computer a ton, like because I was in meetings and all the shit. Oh yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And now I'm like, yeah, in front of it all day. I'm I was going to go this morning and I'm going to go next week to get new glasses that have like the blue light filter in it so I can like not once again feel terrible. Absolute wild shit. I have my eye appointment scheduled for next week on Wednesday. Oh my gosh, what if you all end up going to the same fucking people? Is it is it like? Oh, don't. Kirby Lane. Don't. No, no, no. OK, no. Yeah. It is pretty cute, though. My the optometrist I go to somebody from work recommended them and a couple of people go there and like the optometrist like watches Ruby and like knows it now. I'm just like, oh, that's sweet. I'd like forgotten. She was like, I need to finish the last couple of seasons last season. I was like, you watch it. I forgot. I didn't know that. Nani? So hopefully, like I was saying earlier, hopefully we're not all feeling miserable right now. But if you are and you haven't seen it yet, I don't know how many of y'all saw it, but there's a new the new KDA music video came out. I have watched it more times than I'm willing to admit. Really? Probably watched it on loop. It's it's very good. Not a league fan by any means. Same KDA slaps and this new song. Very good. It is very good. It had a lot to live up to. And I mean, it's always tough. Like, you know, that that first one like it just came out of nowhere. Yeah. But I thought it was really good. I don't know if Josh Samfield saw it. It's very pretty, very colorful, very, very good looking. Yeah, it's surprising. I'm always surprised by like the things that Riot does to like build around that world. And like, I think what the first KDA thing must have been like three years ago, right? It was a while ago. It was. Yeah. Yeah. Was it? And the fact that they kind of just like have rode that train and done this like K-pop band thing for a while now, like it's a really cool concept. It's just I I find it kind of like, I just don't want to support Riot like the company. No, I can't say that. For me, this whole year has been like, where do I put my money and what do I just support? Like matters more just because I'm trying to like not, I don't know, be at their back. So by the way, two years ago, next Tuesday. Two years next. So while. Yeah, like Riot's just kind of been a shit company. They have. I've heard some not good things. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no companies are really great, but I've heard some not great things. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, but like it's, you know, it's a little different when you have like all these stories about like, oh, the culture of the company is to be toxic. And you're like, well, it shows in the game. So I guess so. Yeah, I mean, not. Yeah. I feel like the MOBA community seems to be pretty intense. I don't play a lot. So I don't want to. I don't even think it's like, I want to generalize. The same thing happened to Valorant because like I really was enjoying Valorant for a minute and then like once like, even before the game came out officially, like they started to open up the beta. Yeah. And the more people that came in, it was like, it went from like, oh, this game's enjoyable. And every night I played it, I've had a good time. And then it was like, we played for like seven hours one day and we never had a game where somebody didn't leave or like use racial slurs the whole time or like, you know, just completely toxic bullshit. And it's just like, oh, cool, this game's not funny anymore. That was a good experience. Yeah, I feel like it's the right way is to be toxic and shitty. I honestly just hate playing multiplayer games without a full party. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's that. And then also just like, being able to turn off chat or anything like that also helps out a lot, which is like, this is like throwback, but like whenever Fortnite came out, you didn't have a chat. So it's just like, all right, you don't have to talk to anybody. There's of course like the voice chat, but still you can turn that off if you want to. Of course you don't have communication, but yeah. But like as far as like league and all that goes, like Riot has just got this track record of having these insanely popular games, especially like Valorant like you were saying, Sam. But like it allows a lot of people to come in and play the game, which is obviously what they want. But like there's the toxic middle elo, which is like the people who are just good enough to think that they're good, but then bad enough to not understand that they're bad or why they're bad. So they get angry all the time. Me. The toxic behavior comes in so much and Riot doesn't do a goddamn thing about it. And it's so annoying. Yeah, cause like we were like just like dying to get, like at first it was like getting out of the like high silver and then like to never got to get out of gold. And just it was just because yeah, the environment and like me and my friend that mainly play together, we're just in there. It's like, what the fuck is wrong with this? Like everybody's so mad. So you have one bad game and they're like, well, you know, you should have been aborted and you're like, okay. Like it's like, all right, well. Geez. You can have, that could be a point and we can talk about that. But I don't know how you, is it an age thing? I don't wanna start something fucking old. I just think it's online gaming community. Yeah. Honestly, like even like non-competitive games or games that don't have like a competitive scene like Dead by Daylight. Even that game is like incredibly toxic. Yeah. I feel like I'm at the point where I would almost rather sign up and like play a game where you don't get any anonymity. Like I kind of think that would be dope. It would be like, oh yeah, like it just give us some incentive to not be that fucking bad. Cause if anyone, if you knew any of these people are ever met in real life, you would never say the fucking shit that you say in those games. And that's just the insane bit. It's like, yeah, it's just fucking wild. Like how are you saying such hateful things and just like so much fucking vitriol is just spewing through your little keyboard because somebody went 10 and 13 and you're like, come on kid, like shut the fuck up. Like it doesn't, nobody gives a shit. Like just play the game and stop, also stop typing so fucking much. Like if you played the game a little bit maybe instead of just sitting there yelling at me. Well, I mean, I had that, I had that in Valorant and like I have that in Overwatch because I don't, I used to play a lot more and like right now like I'll play like, you know, a couple of games a week and it's like, I'm not great. That's still way more than me. Like I haven't touched Overwatch in like two or three years now and that was like the only game I played for like a year at one point. No, same. But in like, every game I play, whether it's me or somebody else on my team, like somebody will be like, man, I wish the healer did something or like I wish the tank did something. It's like, oh, I mean, why don't you just say, I like, yeah, we can't solve fucking everybody being assholes but like it's a problem and Sam, I was gonna ask you like, this isn't, this is definitely not saying like you're wrong about it, but I'm curious like, what can they do? Like what can Riot do? Or any of these companies? Because I think it goes beyond like Riot, like, like what can these companies do to like not enable or not like, or to actually punish people who are asshole, you know? I think there's a lot they can do, but everything at the end of the day, like one thing I would say is like, it's not like it's hard to set up your chat to like register when you called someone the N-word. Yeah. And just be like, well, he's calling people the N-word. Yeah. Fuck him. Bye. Like, you know. If Phasmophobia can tell when I say, give us a sign. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And just even then it's like, okay, we'll then like put them on their own island where all those people match make together or something like that. Like there's ways to, but at the end of the day, I think that is gonna affect like their bottom line. Like there's a level of toxicity. The overall community is willing to tolerate and that's the highest number of like paying players you're ever gonna get. And so they just try and ride that line. And I think they do stuff, but they just don't care. Like once the toxicity is at like, 30% of players are just pieces of shit, but everyone else is still sticking around. So like I just, I think they just found their level and they're fine with it. And you know, cause to them it doesn't matter. Like if you're a toxic piece of shit, but you're also buying skins then whatever, as long as you're not so toxic that dozens and hundreds of players are like leaving, you know. No, man, that's a serious point. Although now you are, now I am wanting to see a new reality show called Toxic Island. It's just like where they've gone and taken all of like the worst fortnight toxic players and like put them in one match with like open comms. And it's like, let's just, let's just see what happens. As much as I'm against like that, it's just because people don't sign up for the toxic shit. But if you had a reality show that was like, didn't you all watch The Circle? No. I heard a lot about it, but not even ever saw it. Pretty much it's just people locked in their own little apartments. The only, there's like eight people and the only way they're allowed to communicate is through like a fake Facebook thing, right? And so they, and like, that's how they all communicate. And then like one gets kicked out of the apartment complex at the end of it, some shit. But they never actually meet in person. So like the good part of the show, I was like, I really don't care about this. Like we started episode one. I was like, it's, I don't, and then like one, like it's like, oh yeah, I'm Tasha and I'm here to teach people that, you know, everyone, not all girls are fake. And then like some shit is like, yeah, that's fine. Sure. And then like, there's this guy. It's like, this is Louise. She's beautiful and a model. And then it shows like, I'm Nathan. I'm catfishing these motherfuckers. I'm like, I'm in now, let's fucking play. Like I got this, right? So like if you pretty much had that concept except just cyber bullying, like I'm kind of into it. Cause like if somebody's signed up for it, I can get behind the shit talking, right? It's like... I'm as a reality TV show as now. You're all signing up to be assholes. Yeah. And being mean to strangers is not fucking cool. But if you've ever been like, seen like a room full of comedians, like shit talking to each other. It's fucking hilarious, right? Like there's a sport in it that is inherently funny, but just to do it to strangers is like fucking awful. And I think like a lot of people don't get that line, especially on like games and stuff. They just think they're being funny by being mean. It is not the case at all. Like you have to be in them. It's like, like Carrie, we've talked about this before. Like our entire growing up was like, all of our friends were just shit talking to each other. Yeah. And I was all about, I still do it. I live with my high school best friend and like we still shit talking to each other and because we love each other. I mean, like... Yeah, you know the love is there so you can see hate flash shit like all the time and it's fucking fine and it's funny. So yeah, like, yeah. Well, it's like you're saying like, if I'm walking down the street and somebody says something shitty to me, I'm gonna get upset. If I buy a front row seat to a comedy show and they make fun of my amazing hat, I get it. Like, I signed up for that. I just don't want to be called the hard F word when I don't do well in Overwatch. Yeah. That would be cool. Don't call anyway. I don't know. Let's fix society on I have notes. I have notes about society. Yeah, not great. Just don't be shitty to be talking about. I have notes on gamers. Gamers? Gamers? Hey, sit down. Yeah, stop rising up. Y'all need to sit down for a bit. Yeah, y'all are, y'all rows up. Calm down. White enough. Yeah, gamers is a whole not really like a, I don't know, like a targeted demographic of people. We can all just kind of chill. Like, we're good. You understand we're a humongous bit of like media in the world right now. We have plenty of purchasing power. Like, you know, yeah, there's no need to rise up. Yeah, let's, let's, everybody chill out. 2021, let's, let's chill out. Let's see how that feels. Well, maybe. It feels like assholes when this episode come out and everybody knows all the results. Yeah, we are. Oh no. Yeah, that's fair. Well, maybe the answer is to not be humans anymore and to not be ourselves anymore. Josh, you found a Bloomberg article, is that what it was? Yeah, it was a Bloomberg, a Bloomberg? I can't speak English. Bloomberg. Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. English today, yeah. I think this is like spawning off the fact that we were talking about KDA earlier. Yeah. There is a member of the new music video. I mean, I can't say their name. They're a member of the KDA. Seraphine, yeah. I think that's why you say it. Yeah, Seraphine. So there's a little bit of weird controversy going on about her, but that's a whole different topic. But like, so her thing was that she spawned out of the internet ether as like a virtual influencer, right? And eventually, like after some time went on, Riot was like, hey, this is actually like our new champion in our, what is it, League of Legends? I sound like a bold man. League of Legends, yes. And then everybody's just like, oh, wow, we totally didn't see that coming. But she's got like- Did Riot start her from the beginning? Yeah, I believe so, right? I believe she was like, there was nothing that tied her and Riot together until they finally came out and said that they did it. Gotcha. Beyond that, like she's still got like this crazy massive like 413,000 follower on Instagram and she's got like all sorts of little promotional things here and there. She says she's gonna do some stuff here. Like I think she's doing like an EP of her own or something like that music-wise. So it's weird to see like in this world of like 2020 COVID, you know, we got quarantine going on and stuff like that, that like virtual influencers are starting to become like a bigger thing. Cause like, you know, I'm not gonna lie, like I watch a lot of like VTubers and stuff like that in my spare time, right? And it's kind of dawned on me that like, that's, it's kind of sort of this weird, like paradigm that the world is currently going to. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if you guys saw some of the, like other Instagrammers in that article. I don't know where that article. But they looked super real. Like, if you didn't tell me that these people were virtual, you would have fooled me completely. Man, I don't know how I feel about that. I mean, it's not a new thing. I know there's another Instagram digital influencer. I forgot her name, but she's been around for maybe two or three years. She's not real? Not, I know, crazy. But it's definitely, it seems like this year, it's like at its peak or it's like on the rise. We're gonna see more. This is crazy. There's gotta be a line somewhere, right? Like, I don't know. I prefer like stylized fake people if we're gonna do that. Also, sure. Yeah. It's funny. It also reminds me of how a couple of years back, I think Square Enix teamed up with, I think like Louis Vuitton or something. So they had like viral fantasy characters modeling real clothes. And it's like, it's like, oh, it's lightning in some product shit. It's like a little uncanny, but it's also kind of cool. I don't know, it's so weird. I'm 100% behind that shit. Like, it's awesome, but it's like, wow. They also had like JoJo Gucci. Oh yeah, that's all new, Sam. Yeah, like, I'm all about that, but I do feel like there's a big difference between lightning or cloud or fucking noxious, we're never imitating a real world person, right? That's like the line. It's just like, yeah, it would be, like to have those things like cross over and to do fashion is like dope, but if this truly untangible like person is a model for Vogue or some shit, it just gets a little weird because like, I don't know, like where are you drawing? Like that line for reality is like getting real fucking right now. So I don't wanna be an old man and say it's like, no fake people in my life, Sam. I don't really give a shit. It just seems like, especially when this is primarily targeted at people that are like 12 to 16, like I just be fucking like have a hashtag, be like, not a real human in every fucking post and then I'm probably, I don't give a shit anymore, right? Like just let them know before they start trying to emulate like, cause you know, here in a minute, they're gonna have them like standing on top of the Empire State Building like dangerously close to a legend and people are like, I wanna take that picture and then fall off. We have a whole thing. Like we've seen it a hundred times with dumb shit, so. Yeah. I mean, it's also just like, even worse about like unrealistic beauty standards too. I mean, like Photoshop has been a thing forever. But I mean, like if you have all these fake models that are quote unquote perfect and have like bigger eyes and the perfect nose and all this like, it's, yeah, I don't know. I feel old, but I feel like with that, like, sorry, Erin, go ahead. I mean, it's another aspect that I don't like and I'm pretty sure Seraphine kind of does this too and like one other digital influencer. They also, like to make them less perfect, they kind of like have tried to give them like, mental illnesses, like in trying to like make it quirky and relatable, which is like not, not cool. And it's like, okay, this is a fake person whose sole purpose is to sell me something and now they're trying to make like depression trendy or something. That's like, that's like- When this fucking, like when this fake person has a branded Zoloft ad for their mental illness, like that is a level that like, everyone on this side of it, Seraphine and Zoloft will both want that. And it will probably happen if it gets that point. Cause those morals aren't gonna be like, nobody's gonna fucking think of that. They're like, well, Zoloft helps people. And then we'll take the money and then Zoloft is gonna be like, well, more people will see our product and we can help more people. But like the reality of it is like very fucked up in that line, I think. Like you should never let them do that shit. Some of this stuff is getting like way too close to like Twilight Zone or fucking Black Mirror. Like, I don't know, yeah. As far as social media and how weird all of it's getting, I think it's a comedian. I think it's Michelle Wolf. She had the whole bit about how like you should post the attempt at the selfie. Like when you post the selfie, it's like, you know, oh yeah, you're looking for shit, but you should be like, that was shot number 63. Like there were 62 ugly photos before this one. And I think like, if you extrapolate that concept out, like that would legitimately help, maybe not social media, but help the like digestion of these people to be like, oh wow, fucking whatever. Kayleigh Jenner is always pretty. It's like, no, that was picture 148. She looked that good all the goddamn time. Like a lot of them were weird. She was blinking. Like, I don't know, like. Well, no, that's what I love about Jessica Negri is that she's just being an amazing being. But like, she is a, you know, model cosplayer. I think she has like Patreon only fans, all that stuff. She constantly, she'll post like the sexy photo. And then the one where she has like eight shins is like making a weird face. Like it's more human also. Like it's just as like, oh cool, you're a person. Thank you for that. And it's like, you can have both, you know? Like you can, I don't know. Yeah, I just, and like I am for the idea of like, let's have some like interesting narratives or like, you know, people who maybe wouldn't, who are interesting and who should be doing, you know, let's play podcast kind of content, but they don't want to be on camera. If this is a way for them to do it, that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I can really resonate with that because I'd love to like stream more and stuff in general, but I feel like a big part of it for me is like, I don't, a lot of times, mentally feel like up to be like, oh yeah, I'll put my face out there. I think being like that VTuber thing for me, at least sees like, I love that idea, but also I feel like 95% of it is like, leaning towards the female side of it. Like I don't think you see any men doing it in a significant way. Until Josh, until Josh gets his going. Yeah. Yeah, boy. And then when you see it happen though, they're like a fox or something. And they're like, oh well, I don't know, like I, yeah, it's just seems like it's a little skewed to one side, not necessarily like a bad way. It just seems like that's the, the angle of it is to be beautiful, which I don't think necessarily helps it. Josh, you're probably the closest to like the VTuber community out of all this like, are there like any like kind of consensus of like, this is how far we should go, or is everybody just like, let's have photo real humans doing this, you know, is like. For the most part, like the, people who want to do VTubing and stuff like that, like they'll go through the process of either creating like a 3D model or like live 2D model. And it's generally going to be more of like a this surreal sort of nature rather than like getting closer to the real like border. Yeah. Because like they kind of want to like, express themselves in a way like, I'm a vampire who also likes soccer, I don't know. So like the people get really quirky with it. And I don't see anybody ever go for like the hyper realistic thing whatsoever. I think like the closest I might see is like, even speaking on like the male VTuber size, like you don't see a lot of them, but then there's like, there's a guy named Yashiro from Nijisanji, who's like a, there's a big group of VTubers in Japan called Nijisanji. But he's like just an office worker, but he's just like an anime office worker. And that's this whole VTuber like persona. But yeah, like you never really see them go like the hyper realistic route. Cause I think that kind of breaks the point of doing the VTuber thing to begin with. You know what I mean? No, I agree. I mean, like that's what I, it this almost seems like this is going to sound fucking stupid and there's, this is, this is just a kind of illustrated point, but it almost seems like the next wave of like muppets or something like that where it's like, you can, you can bring a character to life in a like live manner. I mean, like that's what that stuff was or is even spilled. But you know, like, yeah, I don't, there's enough real people already. Let's make it like, I'd rather be a vampire or a quirky office worker. I don't know. I don't know. I just, I get really scared with like, how good this stuff is getting and like deep fakes are getting that like, I am incredibly worried that we're, we're not going to be prepared for how easy it is going to be to fake stuff. And not have the ability to like, authenticate like, this is my camera. You know that this is me. That's what I'm worried about. And I feel like we're just getting caught off guard. Ooh, have you seen that website called thispersondosnotexist.com? Every time you refresh, it gives you a hyper realistic photo of a person who just straight up does not exist. It's completely like AI generated. Like, I'll post this link. I have nightmares about that kind of stuff. It is, it is very, very, very strange. And we've gotten to this point in our technology. And I don't know how I feel about this at all. I know this is like, not good. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I do quite enjoy those websites where you can upload a photo and it'll give you like the anime version of it. Those are always fun. Like I love making like, waifus based off of myself because I'm an asshole. No, that's fun. Yeah, okay. Josh, this website scares me. I don't know. I'm not gonna look at it. I'm not gonna look after this. I closed out of it. I closed out of it. I don't know. Like, I mean, yeah, at what point do they, do we stop having models? You know, like, just 3D model them. True, true. What was it? Like, I get it because there is some weirdness that here I'll post it in the disc or you can see. But like, because like this person, I'm like, wow, how's that a real person that just looks to the person who's left? That is like, what the fuck is that? It's just like, what the fuck is that? What is this? Oh my God. So like, there's some bugs that look like G-Way, you know. What happened? Uh-oh, something did not stitch together. Okay, that makes me feel better. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I like seeing that one. The guy has like an eyebrow piercing almost. Like, I don't think it is, but that's what it looks like. Yeah. It's just quite funny. This is old white man for the glasses. But yeah, if I was just like flipping through a magazine, which I don't do anymore, so I don't know why I get that as an example. I know, it's the thing that we used to do before we had phones and we were bored on the toilet. That's just like a person to me, except for the terrible creature in the corner. We should tweet that out or something. This is terrible. That is terrible. No, thumbnail for this week. Yeah. Oh no. You're right on the side of it. I'm Glenda. Ugh. She kind of looks like a thumb. So, that could work. Yeah. Like, go ahead. What's with, do we have a topic? Can we just lose topic sheet? No, well, we got a, can we lose topic sheet? We have one thing we're going to talk about, but we can talk about whatever. What have you all been playing lately? Cause I feel like I'm in a video game drought. I could use like a new thing to give a shit about. Do you, what kind of games do you like? Indie games, do you like shooters? What do you like? I think both of those categories, like shooters more accidentally, like I was never an FPS fan until like four or five years ago and like PUBG came out and I like got super into it. And then I realized I like video games that I'm good at. That's fair. But aside from that, I would say like pretty much, like it's like I'll play team-based FPSs and then indie games. Like, I just dumped a bunch of hours in a Hades. That was a fantastic experience. I'm working on my first clear still. Still need to play it. Yeah. I think I'm tired. It's so good, the artist. I know. It's the artist good. I love those rents and repeat style games. And I feel like this is absolutely one of the best ones. It's like this in Dead Cells, but the thing this has going for it is that the dialogue never gets fucking stale. Like they do such a good job. I think of a, there's a news game that came out. I think it's called Star Renegade. It's like an RPG, indie rents and repeat thing. And it's fantastic. The art is very good, but I kind of burnt out on it probably after like 12, 15 hours just because the dialogue got so repetitive. And at this point in Hades, like I think I'm like five or six clears into the game and there's still new dialogue every fucking time. And it's just so refreshing to feel like, okay, yeah, I beat the game, but I still want to play it in the stories not over. Like you haven't really beat the game. Like you've done it and you could stop at your first clear and be like, oh cool, I had that experience too. But they really incentivize you to just keep playing it like the game should be played. And it's super, super refreshing. I hope more people give a shit about dialogue and small indie games and the way they have because it incentivizes shit on me to keep playing. It is hands down the easiest roguelite to get into. If that's not, because that for a long time that was, there you go. Yeah, that was not my genre for the longest time. And I've played a couple that I liked a lot, but like that one like really hit for me. Just because, yeah, I think it's just cause how much it incentivizes you and like the story like you want to know. And they just, they like trickle drip all the details at just the right speed that keeps you engaged and you never get bored. Like I feel like a lot of those games have it's like, okay, cool, you get a chunk and then you have to grind out for like 10 hours until you're strong enough to like get that next chunk. And then this one's just like, nope. It's just a slow drip the whole time that's seemingly endless while you're having a good time playing the game. I think the easy- It doesn't like hurt cause the game is really good too. It is. The, I think the only other roguelite I've liked as much was been Moonlighter or Moonlighters. I think it's Moonlighter. Really? I liked it a lot. I felt like, I got to the third dungeon in that, I think. It just kind of fell off of it cause I felt like the combat was, there was too strong of a meta for like one of the weapons. I can't remember what it was, but it was just like, I felt like the meta got boring and like I got bored of the gameplay that game before I got bored of anything else. I get that. There's definitely like a slump somewhere there. Yeah. Like it's definitely not as good as Hades in my opinion, but it was another like, because it had that, it's basically it's like a roguelite where you also by night, you're going through the dungeon and getting stuff. But then by day you sell all that stuff and you have to figure out like the right prices and like what to sell to who. And it was just another one where that aspect of the game made me more interested in doing like another run cause it was like, well, it's not just about progressing through, it's also about then getting stuff. So like, if I, if I wasn't having a good run and I wasn't going to get to the boss, I could still be like, well, I was able to get these items that helped a lot. Okay, cool. Let me go back and I'll, you know, do stuff. But Hades, I've never, I've never had a run that I didn't enjoy, which I feel like it's not been true for other roguelites I've tried. Have you ever played Heroes of Hammerwatch? No, it's on my list actually. So many mentioned, I think it was on Besties. It's, oh really? I think they talked about it, yeah. Yeah, it's just a very good, like roguelite rinse and repeat. And it's the fact that it's multiplayer and it has this like old school kind of DOS RPG feeling is like, I played a bunch of it with a couple friends and it's very, like that's like my top 10 as well. I think it was very good. If y'all are into puzzle games at all, I've been playing one, I think came out like in everything, but I'm playing a Switch. It's called a Carto, it's like cartographer. Oh yeah, that was like a, that like blew up on iOS, I feel like. Really? Oh, that's good. I mean, they deserve this. A while ago and they were just like, wow, like game design in mobile games, like this is, like they killed it. It's, it's, it breaks my brain a lot. You're basically the whole game is you're exploring these islands and you, you get the island like tile piece by tile piece. And you have to figure out the best way to arrange them or you move them around like for the moment. Like somebody, one of the things was like, I got to the first island and I was looking for this. I found three sheep and I needed the fourth one. And the person was like, oh, they're usually in their secret spot where surrounded by these like plants. And I looked and I was trying to figure out like how the fuck do I do this? Cause I didn't have enough tile pieces. And I realized, wait, surrounded by, so I put these tile pieces all around a blank space that were all surrounded, the edges of them had this plant and then a new thing formed up. And I was like, oh, okay, it's a secret spot. It's, you have to form it. Like it's, it's really interesting. And it's got this cool story. I haven't gotten too far into it yet, but I've been like in a lot if you're into puzzle games. Not a game I've played recently, but a game I want to revisit and replay cause it's been heavy on my mind recently. Have you all heard of killer seven? Yeah, no. Oh, Carrie, I really want you to, I want, I really want everybody to play this game. It's quite the experience. It's from... With his face, it's the director that did like no more heroes and stuff, right? Student of 51. So I, he's really like, I love, my favorite genre of video games is weird Japanese shit. So like Metal Gear Solid, near on top of, yeah, killer seven is like very much in that same vein. It is like probably the most avant-garde like video game I've ever played. It's probably still Student of 51's best game without spoiling too much. So Frieden's haggling from Steam, sneak into a world of underground assassins as Harman Smith, a man, Manifest's seven deadly personalities, the killer seven. Basically, it's a almost rail shooter. It's on like pseudo rails, I guess. Pseudo rails? Yeah. It's just, it's a wacky game and there's nothing else quite like it. There's some like horror elements, some like thriller. There's like a terrorist subplot. It's like in this really aesthetically different style of like almost like cel-shaded, but it's like that tasty 2004 GameCube like graphics. It was at the tail end of the GameCube life cycle, right? Yep, yep. I remember at the time it was a very weird GameCube game. Like they were just like to have something like that on the GameCube as wild. It was ported to PS2, which is not a great port, but it was put on Steam like two or three years ago and there was rumors that was gonna come out on Switch, hopefully in the next year or so. Yeah. If you look up a trailer, like that's really all I can like say without like giving too much away. The story's like wacky. Apparently like he only got like one third of the game he wanted to like gain it. Yeah, so there's like follow-up material. Like there's like a book you can read on it. It's crazy. I love stuff like that. Yeah, I highly recommend it. Okay. There's like some, also like they'll do like weird shit where it'll be like normal cut scenes with like the engine graphics, but then it'll switch to like anime, like 2D animation. Ooh. Yeah, it's really weird. It's awesome though. One of my favorite games, but it's very hard to sell to people because it's just so out there. I mean, no, you're selling. I might just wait to see if it does come out and switch because I'm basically the point where if I can play it on the switch, I will. Yeah, there was rumors, I think. So there was a sequel to No More Heroes that was like on the switch. And then in a recent patch, they added a cut scene that uses like killer seven characters to like tie in the universes. And apparently like the porter who did it for Steam got the copyright for like the Switch Edition or something. And so people are thinking it's like gonna come out. Or maybe we'll get killer eight. Well, actually that is an alternative mode on the game. So. Oh, wow, that's pretty cool. That's, I highly recommend it. And I've really been wanting to replay it recently, so. Yeah, that seems like a fun game to play. Josh, I know you've been playing the Doom Eternal DLC, right? Well, I have a, yeah. It's real good. It's very, very good. It's very, very hard. It is simultaneously like the best parts of Doom. Like some of my favorite Doom content, like of all time. And then probably like some mechanics are like my least favorite mechanics of Doom. But overall, I will say that it's slapped super hard for like a good few hours of content. And the thing is like it's like a meaty piece of content too. Like I blasted through it. I want to say in like maybe a couple of hours, but I would say I'm not like trying to make myself like, oh, I'm the big bad Doom guy. But like, I think for like a normal, a normal playthrough for somebody, it might take you like a few more hours than I did. But it's good. It's very, very good. And then now I'm just like replaying it just to learn it over and over again. So I can figure out where the dangers are because I'm going to try and do the, what's it called, the Ultra Nightmare run again. Jesus. Yeah. So it's like hardest mode, one life. And if you die, you got to start all over. And like that's the crazy thing about like, I have this weird like kinship with like speed runners because the thing is like, I did the Ultra Nightmare run for the normal game of Doom. And I can get my run down to like about four and a half hours, but like I feel like if I die somewhere in the middle of the run, I'm like it's only about four and a half hours. I could start up again and just like keep going. And it's going to be even worse with this DLC because like I'm going to die like an hour and a half and then be like, okay, cool. I can just start up over and over again. And I don't know, like, I feel that's kind of sort of the same for like roguelikes, which I really, really like. Cause like I, cause I do want to also get into Hades and then like Sam just like re-enlightened me to like, oh yeah, dead cells exist. And I never really got to like the, like the later levels of dead cells. And I feel like those are really, really good games to like pick up, especially like, if you don't necessarily have a lot of time to like play games cause like I'm busy all the time now. I can just be like, oh, let me get like one or two rounds of like dead cells or Hades in, you know? Yeah. Hades at lunch has been great. Oh yeah. I'm also like Genshin Impacting at lunch. That's a good lunch game too. Cause you can knock out your daily content and like, man the game is, I can't believe that shit's fucking free. That's what I keep saying. It's, I just got to assume this cause I'm giving them my data. They can have it. I mean, I got, they're just out here like fucking in Abraham, they're just fishing for whales man. They got nothing like, you don't need to give them shit. Somebody else needs to give them $6,000, which if you look at YouTube, like that's half the Genshin Impact content. It's like, I spent all the fucking money I've ever earned on points like, you know, it's like, they got them like. Yeah. That's, that's a good ecosystem though. Like, because like, what is it? They, you give most of the game for free. Cause, I mean, Hoyo's really good about that. Cause like there's Honkai Impact third and then also obviously Genshin, which you'll stand at the top of a mountain of Genshin and be like, I don't understand how I didn't pay for a goddamn penny for this. And then like, I think of like games like Warframe as well, where Warframe is a giant game where it has a lot of things to do and to keep adding more content every year. And it's all free. Like you can pay money to like, get extra stuff. Do more, like get the, get extra stuff, you know, and get things faster, but at the same time, you don't have to pay a single cent. And like, I like that sort of mentality when it comes to games, especially for you to play, because people usually end up responding more in kind to a game when it comes down to that. So definitely seeing like, I think like I saw like Ikari or something like that on stream, trying to roll for one of the five stars. And I think he spent like four grand or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And that shit happens all the time. Yeah. And then you got people like Cole, that got their first five star and their first roll ever. And you're just like, all right, well, fuck you, Cole. You know? Yeah, no problem. I'm always, I'm like a, I'm like a seal. I'm not like a whale. Like I don't spend that much money on it, but I was like, I've had a couple of games I've spent like a couple hundred dollars on, like Hearthstone, fuck, there's another one to remember. But like, I haven't spent any money on Genshin yet. I'm going to, I'm sure at some point, but like, because it's free. I do like the five dollar adult passy kind of thing where you get points, because it's like, I'll throw in five dollars. Like if I hit, like, I have like a rule of thumb where if I like play any free to game, or free to play game and hit 10 hours, I'll just throw them a few dollars, just out of like respect. Like if you give me 10 hours to entertain, the least I can do is give you like five or 10 bucks, right? What's the idea with, with Among Us? Like on PC, it was like 10 bucks or five bucks. It was cheap anyways. I was like, I'm going to buy all the DLC. Like I'm, I love this game, I might as well. But like with a game like Genshin, it's like that much content for free, I can justify paying $60 on it. Or like, you know, like buying $60 for the stuff because it's like, I would have just paid $60 for this game. It's not that much time out of any way. So, but then it's after that where I'm like. Yeah, I'm like at 30 hours into it. So I probably would have gladly spent like 60 bucks, but also I don't want to just because like the, the in-game currency seems very expensive per dollar. It does. The thing that blows me away the most though is that how little they jam it down your throat that you can spend actual money. Like one of my friends has probably like 10 hours into the game and I was like, oh, you could just buy it if you really wanted it. And he was like, you can buy it. No, seriously, they really don't like. They don't. They don't even fucking tell you. There's like the little plus symbol in the bottom corner when you're on the wish menu. And so you can click that and buy shit, but like, yeah. When the game launched too, they gave you so much stuff for free, like so much extra stuff. I was like, oh, that cool. This is awesome. I don't need to buy anything right now. I still haven't, but I've done like 10 hours in or something. I'm interested to see like if, as games like this get more and more popular. And I kind of think they will just with how the world and socioeconomic happens. Like poor people are getting poorer and rich people are getting richer. So like have a game that everyone can play and will hunt. But with it, I kind of hope there becomes like a $0 spent like category, kind of like how speed runs are like, oh, tool assisted and shit. It's like, there should be like a, I guess a badge of honor for like a lack of a better word to mean like a like a $0 streamer or something like that. Or like just so- Or an asterisk because they did steroids. Yeah. Just so even just so like if I'm looking for content on like, cause I've done it a few times with similar games and like Genshin Impact, you're just like, you know, you look up content for it and it's some guy who's spent literally $6,000 and has everybody maxed out. And you're just like, well, this isn't realistically how I play the game. So could I see how like a real human would do this? Right. And yeah, it's just, yeah. Hopefully that would come to things like here, here's my $0 badge of honor kind of thing. Yeah, I, yeah. Cause it's like, I, I'm interested in watching a stream where somebody's sitting $6,000 cause I'm not going to, but I also, yeah. I mean, like, I also don't want to like only watch that because then I'm just going to feel sad, you know, all the time. More so than usual. I'm just kidding. Well, cool. I think that's probably a good place to wrap up. I did want to mention when this episode comes out, will be just a couple of days away from Ruby Volumete's premiere. Yes. If you are not, we would super appreciate it. If you became a first member, you can watch it like the day it comes out instead of waiting a week. Are you supporting us that way? Yeah. I mean, that's a big thing. And, and you know, there's a, I know the news about it being not on YouTube anymore just came out. There's a lot of information on our website of why that decision was made and why we did that. One thing I want to make sure everybody understands and is super clear, you can still watch it on our website for free. You don't even need an account. We would love it if you signed up. We would love it if you were a first member. That's what helps the show keep getting made, not YouTube ad revenue. But if you don't want to, that is okay. And you don't, you don't have to now pay to see the show. So we appreciate your support. And yeah, hopefully the world isn't on fire when this episode comes out. The last, possibly last episode. How do you all know about it? Yeah, cause maybe it'll just come out or it won't even come out cause it'll just, everything will blow up. It will, it will be fine. We're going to make it through this. We always do. But yeah, be kind to yourselves. Be kind to other people. Don't be toxic online and have a good day. Bye y'all. Bye friends.