 I would call the select board meeting for Tuesday, January 18th, 2022 to order first order of businesses agenda additions or changes any changes or additions from staff. I do have one addition. It's to discuss and potentially take action on a contract should be an executive session item. Okay, so we can add that. At the bottom of the agenda is hijkl 6l, I guess. Any changes from board members. I would like to pull out the minutes for December 20th. So I guess hijkl 6m. Although we'll probably do the do that in the opposite order. Since we do executive session motions last. Any other changes. Tracy has her hand up I'm not sure if you can see that Tracy go ahead. Yeah, I'd like to also pull the minute from January 3rd. Okay, six and or should, yeah, six and only goes separate items I guess any other changes. Okay. So we want to make a motion. Make motion we accept the agenda with the additions. Thank you Don do I have a second that Tracy. Okay. Any further discussion. Hands up. Okay. I'll in favor please say aye. Aye. Post. Okay, motion passes for zero. So I guess I should have maybe since the, at the beginning of the meeting I should have mentioned that the Sue cook is not with us this evening. Motion passed for zero. Sue had a death in the family so she's this morning has found it so she won't be joining us. Okay, next thing on the agenda is public to be heard. I know with everyone or majority of us I think being online here it's maybe a little in a new meeting format, new, new app. We can get through this but the public to be heard as a time of the agenda for anyone who'd like to speak to the board about items that are not on the agenda. You may address the board with those. If you'd like to speak during public to be heard. Please be brief. Bring my nose with me. Please be kind. Address your remarks to me, please do not it as is the chair of the select board. Please do not use inappropriate language. And please do not attack members of the staff or other members of the public. Please. If you would like to speak, just put your hand up in the app. Or if you're in the room, physically raise your hand. Greg is there anyone in the room. We have three people in the room. Is anybody going to want to speak to be heard. I'm getting head, head no, no one wants to speak here. Okay. Thanks, Greg. I'd like to speak during public to be heard. Now's the time to raise your hand. Andy, how do we raise our hand? I can't find it. Under reactions. Do you have reactions with a smiley face and a plus? Oh, I see. Raise your hand. Thank you. Yep. Did you want to speak? After the person that raised your hand first. Sure. Thank you. Thank you. Mary. Mary posts. Go ahead, Mary. Oh, I think Kathy Flynn was ahead of me. Oh no, I'm not raising my hand. Oh, okay. All right. I thought you were. Thank you. Thank you. I've been. Okay. Am I doing this right? I hope so. I've been gone for a while. And when I came back, I was really, really surprised. And that was where you said that you thought it might be seen as malicious. If the town outside the village citizens were allowed to vote. On the separation. I want you to know that I am totally absolutely more than 100% for the separation. But I still think that it's only right. Not just fair, but it's right. It's right. For the rest of the town that's being affected by the junctions deciding they want to leave us. To not have a vote on it. They're leaving us is affecting the rest of us. And I think. That we should have a chance to vote. And I just was wanting to find out from you, Andy, what you thought about it. So, so, so in the past, one of the. And I'm, and I know some people will say no back and forth, but I'm going to, I'm going to respond to this. I'm going to choose to. That in the past when there have been votes for separation, one of the ways that the. And maybe I'm, I'm putting intent where it shouldn't be. And so one of the things that followed that was the town voting. Having its own vote. That went a different way. And. And so we didn't want to appear at the select board. And maybe I'm, maybe we have to think back to say whether we had this explicit discussion. We certainly didn't have a vote to take this position. That if we were to. If we were to warn a vote, it could be interpreted as an intent to try to thwart the separation. And it's our, been our position along that we don't want to stand in the way of it. No, but I do understand, Mary, your, your, your, your comments about voting does the legislature. We don't know what they're going to do. They may come back and require it. We don't, we don't know. Okay. Well, thank you very much. I, some day I hope we can have a discussion. I think we can have a discussion. We can have a discussion. We can have a discussion back and forth. That would be a really wonderful way to. Be able to have towns, people be involved in what's happening in their town. And we don't have that now, but that's for another meeting. Thank you, Andy. Thanks, Mary. Anyone else like to speak during public to be heard. Any, any. Hi, Andy. Thanks. I just want to, like, as, as I frequently do, remind us all that. This is an entity, the town is an entity, but the town outside the village is not a separate municipal entry entity in any way, shape, or form. Thank you for your time. Thanks. Anyone else want to speak during public to be heard. I don't see any new hands up. So we will move on to the public hearing for the proposed fiscal year 2023 capital budget and five year plan. So I will open that hearing. Do we have. I would like to make a motion and you to open the public hearing. Thank you, Don. The second. Second. Thanks, Pat. Any further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Hi. Hi. Opposed. Okay. Motion passes for zero. We are into the public hearing. Great. Do we have someone to. Dennis is here. If I could just before jumping into Dennis, turning it over to Dennis, could we ask if you're not speaking, could you please keep your camera off and your microphone on mute until you're called on to speak. Thank you. That I'll turn it over to Dennis for the capital plan. I'm muted. Sorry about that. I always forget that. Okay. Anyway, I will try to explain the capital plan, but I'll try to be short. I know you have a long meeting. It is an important document. It's been before the board twice before. Once as a presentation. I think it was four weeks ago. And then once to basically get into detailed questions from the board. The capital plan is on the webpage. And it's complete form. So we're going to spend the two cents that are on the capital tax every year. But also what the rest of. The funding is going to be, is going to come from. Very briefly, the two cents. Amounts to approximately 500 and. Bear with me. I've got a bunch of table full of notes here. $535,000 in expenditures. That's a portion of the total estimated spend for the capital plan. The capital plan. Shows an expenditure of $2,840,000. $296. And obviously there's, there's other funds besides the two, the two cents on the tax rate rate. Those other funds, a lot of them are transfers from the operating account. We fund most of our vehicles annually with a, an amount from the operating account goes into the capital account. And this is a, across the board for police, fire, public works admin. And then we purchased the vehicles out of the capital account. That allows us to put a smaller amount, if you will, in each year, let that account grow. And then we buy the, the trucks or the, the other vehicles when they come due out of the capital plan. So there's, there's a transfer of funds that way. In addition, there's grant monies included in that. And this year there is a significant grant. We've actually got. Two grants. And I believe we're trying to go after a third for a large stormwater project. It's the last of the products that we have. That will allow us to complete. Our flow restoration requirements under our state stormwater permit. Not to bore everybody, but just so you remember, there were four projects which would allow us to complete our projects. And so we're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to complete our requirements under that permit. Two in the village, two in the town. Three have been completed. This is the largest of the projects. And it's now ready to go to. Construction in the summer late summer of 2022. And completed next year. So that will, that is a large part of the capital plan. And a large part of the total dollars are the, the grants that we've obtained to do that. So we're also using. Some funds within the capital fund itself that are undesignated. And there are four items that fit into that category. And I just want to briefly mention them. One is the fort water tower. The roof of the fort water tower needs to be preserved. So we don't lose that water tower. We discussed this at length at the last meeting. So there's funds for that. And then we're going to move on to the next item. The front brick work in the library has deteriorated to the point where it needs to be repaired. Again, this is more than just maintenance costs. This is some significant dollars there. We put a few dollars into the public works equipment replacement fund. With the cost of vehicles. And we haven't changed our schedule replacement. But the costs have gone up that we need to make this fund solvent. So there are some funds there. And then one of the largest. And then we're going to move on to the next item. And then we're going to discuss the radio infrastructure. With a police and emergency services that's up on Brigham Hill. That communications equipment is outdated. It needs very much would be good to have a. A generator up there instead of operating up with battery power all the time. And for emergencies. And to ensure that we have that communication. System working for the town. So those are four. We've tried to fit into this year's capital plan. In a very broad sense, most of our expenditures now and going forward. Are really in two areas. And that is in stormwater. And in buildings. And stormwater we've, like I say, we will complete the flow restoration piece of the permit. The second piece is the requirement to remove phosphorus. That's a much more lengthy. Permit requirement was 20 years. I think it's now down to 17. Where we have a whole list of things that were required to meet. Including reducing the level of phosphorus. That we discharged from our entire storm water system. That plan is underway and it's being worked on. But that will require a significant funding expenditure in the future. Hopefully most from grants, but no guarantee on grants. If we don't get grants, it's going to have to be paid for. Out of the local funds. We have a number of buildings. The other one is buildings. We have a number of buildings that need work. Or that in fact need to be replaced. And there's three or four of those that are seeing very significant projects. We have not funded those this year. We can't. Too large a bill. But we did identify them in the capital plan, which we have not done in the past. So at least we have an identification of the need. We have a number of buildings. We have a number of buildings that need to be replaced. Through one of the local architects. But there's more work as we further define. How we're going to handle each one of those future needs. That's probably a three to five year timeframe. But. We don't know at this particular point. The buildings aren't falling down. But the major ones are. Some additions to the highway garage. Public works needs to be consolidated. We don't have significant space. We can't expand at the current location. We're looking to basically reconvert the old highway garage into a public works building in the future. But that would require that we find a home for our water sewer people. We need to replace a town salt shed, which is in very much in disrepair and falling apart. We are looking at new parks and rec facility. And to include some offices, but we don't have that. We don't have that. We don't have that. We don't have a new indoor activity space. And a replacement for the pool. Again, that's, these are all longer term projects. And then the other one that we've been looking at is a potential for a new fire station. If the fire station were to relocate and build a new fire station at some future date. Public works would take over that building and that would alleviate some of the need for additional. Public workspace for equipment and maintenance. So those are kind of all future projects, but we're looking at the future. So we're looking at the future. We're looking at the future needs. And the town will obviously have to tackle those as we go forward. There is one correction that we wanted to make sure we got out. And I can either do it or. Or Courtney can do it. But when we came out with the original warning for the capital budget. We found that. There was funds. In the fire equipment line, which were essentially double counted in two places. And the people in the fire equipment line. And so they counted it. And so we expected that. The capital tax additions is still as I indicated, 535,000. The spending total spending of 2,840,296 remain unchanged. But the ending balance is not 2,923,420. As far as the end of year balance as opposed to. The original number that was presented in the morning. And I wanted to. The board to wear that, but I want to correct that for the public just so they knew. With that, I'll keep quiet and answer any questions that people may have on the capital plan. Alright, thanks Dennis. Any, any board member comments or questions before we go to the public. No. Okay, so let's see any questions from the public questions or comments. So any coopers your hand up new or is that an old hand. I'm very sorry I forgot to take it down before. Okay, Gabriel Smith. Gabriel you're muted, your hands up. Thanks I thought I hit the button but I didn't find Sandy. So, my question is, maybe it's not a question. If either you or Dennis could explain about the capital plan expenditures that I think by understanding this correctly, are traditionally their tax from the entire town that to put the two cent on the dollar tax. We all pay it is that right. And then, yes. And then the projects are generally almost exclusively funded for properties or for equipment or buildings that are outside of the village is that am I inaccurate in that I know it's not 100%. But is that yes not right it's not 100% stormwater is one significant area where funds have been spent in the village and I don't know Dennis is other any other. I kind of don't want to be coy about this but I kind of assumed that this question would come up at some point so I, I did do up a little bit I did some research and some information and bear with me this. This can take not a long time but a couple of minutes. Under buildings, I'm going to do it by category there's five or six categories so let me go through them real quick. The buildings are $62,000 allocated from the two cents $50,000 of that is programmed for the police building. That's HVIC improvements and there's reasons for that that go back to the original construction, the window construction, the nature of the building that we found we now have to change. There is money also for $2,000 for Memorial Hall which is a shared facility both the town and the village use that for recreation programs, more the town and the village but there so out of that. My estimate said there's about 52,000 and these are my estimates so people can obviously take issue with me but I've gone through and look at this. $160,000 and most of that's going to go into it's reached the point where we need to redo Susie Wilson road, and you know so the question might be well, why is that a village issue, well, it is a village and town issue from this perspective. Susie Wilson road before the Cirque Highway was built, had about 10,000 cars a day. Now it approaches 25 to 30,000 cars a day and the whole purpose of Cirque Highway was to alleviate traffic in the village of Essex Junction, basically five corners. And it's done that it's taken that traffic away from the five corners. So what is that done with respect to the village well with respect to the village is essentially provided the capacity in the village to essentially bring some of that path traffic back to the five corners. And you see that traffic and that based upon the buildings that are kind of been constructed around the five corners. In my view, the additional if that extra 15,000 to 20,000 cars a day that went over to Susie Wilson road, which required the town to widen it, add traffic signals, and do a whole lot of effort out there are very significant costs. The village would not have been able in my view to be able to have the growth that it's current down in that area around the five corners. I think it's a legitimate argument that at least a portion of that improvements to Susie Wilson road, really tie the both communities together and are not just singly for the town. Vehicles and equipment $30,000 of this is for a portion of this is for the police equipment and bringing Hill Road. Obviously the police serve both the town and the village. And so that's a shared expense. Passive walks. We're designing part of that money we're going after another grant and that grant would be to construct a sidewalk that was jointly planned by the village and town between approximately Athens Drive and the Sirke Highway in the town. A pedestrian pathway up from 15 has long been needed. It will serve both communities. A lot of money because most of that money would be a match for a much larger grant. And right now we're probably going to split that project into two phases because the project alone is over a million dollars and what we would need is perhaps do two or three half or three quarters of that project and then follow another year with that. Stormwater, both communities agreed a long time ago both boards that we would jointly fund out of the town's capital plan stormwater projects in town and village that they said before. There's a lot of grants we've gotten we've shared those costs, equitably we've not distributed with any projects the village has come forward with. And we've taken this last project was agreed to as part of the full restoration plan with both boards agreed to. It is more expensive than the other three. It's a project that both communities signed off of as part of that plan to the state and the EPA information management. Again, those may at some point go down their own road for information management. But right now the it has and continues to serve the village through this next year, our it section. There are costs there for servers and other hard equipment. But also is, in my view, at least partially shared that down in the village. There's a natural resource management, where there's $2,000 allocators in the two cents. And my understanding is these funds are directed to ask tree situation in both communities it's not just the town, but it's both the town in the village When you start to look at that there's approximately in my view 75 to 80% of that total $535,000 is shared in some way between the town and the village. And there's probably out of that about 100,000 you might say is directly related only to town with no relation to what's going on in the village. I can disagree with me but that's having looked at the projects. I feel that that's a fair estimate of how that is that is split between the communities, at least for this year and every year it's different. But for this year that's what it is. So, Dennis, oh, make me ask you go ahead. Oh, thank you. So, it's sound if I understand you quickly Dennis are you saying that of this year's capital budget $100,000 you would say is being spent in the town outside the village and the other is being spent for project kind of prioritize across both communities or well should say not both communities across the entire town. Yeah, those those projects, I guess the best would occur, the paraphrase is it serves both communities. And it's not a, a, you know, pull something out of the trees type of issues, these projects directly serve both both communities. You know, things like police infrastructure and communication. We're going to be if we go into the separation mode. We're going to start with the share services the police department that's a shared cost no matter how you cut it. So you start to go through all those projects and take a look at, well, what benefit does the town or the village get from that and I didn't know you can, you can argue well maybe they don't get full benefit, I would argue, if they're shared project and they serve both communities. Right now they serve both communities. I don't mean to make the case Dennis that my, my, that the time part of the town to so right now wherever funds are spent benefit benefit me because they benefit my community so I think my question and you may have answered it is that I may have misunderstood. I was under the understanding that the village has a capital tax to pay for projects inside the village which is also part of the town. The town taxes on Tuesday and on the dollar for projects that are primarily happening outside the town. And that those two lists are not you don't Dennis you don't combine. You don't look at the town as a as a whole and say regardless of, you know, where the project is in the town we should prioritize them by the entire town including the village, and not everybody, but the village pace rates on its own, and then the town, but this is what I'm trying to understand. I understand what you're saying yeah. It is true. We have not merged those systems there. The actual administration and how they're set up are really quite different and be honest if we had headed down the path of merger. Probably one of the most difficult tasks that we would have to undertake would be to figure out how we, how we would merge those projects, how we would merge those costs, and quite honestly how you do figure out. How do you fairly and equitably share those costs for what the needs are. We never got that far. So what we're doing is, you know, we have, we have not sat down with the boys and say, Oh, look at the town projects nor they sat down and said, Oh, look at our project. What we've tried to do where we can over time is to identify the needs for the town. And I use the town in the global sense. And I think I was trying to indicate this year was the fact that the projects that we have benefit greatly both communities. In the future, obviously they'll have to be separated out. The biggest concern is we will have when the taxes get separated out and that occurs where less money going to the capital fund. And we're going to have increasingly larger needs, especially in the area of stormwater and that's something the town outside the village as well as the village is going to have to figure out how we afford these major projects going forward. And it's going to be very difficult. And so Dennis, I think you may have corrected me then so my my understanding before I started talking with you is that the capital budget for the capital budget for the town and the village in the sense that the, that the capital fund for the town is four projects that that happened primarily in the town outside the village when you say the town you're meaning when you say the town projects versus the village project. You're not referring to the town as a whole referring to the town outside the village when you say that. Well, it's, it's, and again, I don't want to confuse things but it is convoluted because the police serve both so funds, I would say police. Stormwater the same way we've equally shared those costs, the cost for all the projects that were built in the village. Under their requirements for stormwater did not come out of the village capital plan they came out of the town capital plan by agreement. So it's a kind of a memorandum of understanding so it's, I wish it was clear and real concise that says here's the boundary, but it hasn't always been it hasn't been that way. And that's why, you know, I think we've tried to cooperate as neighbors and do what we can, but it isn't as clear as probably people would like. Okay, you're absolutely right. You've been helpful. Thank you. I appreciate another perhaps another piece there is starting with the current year. Current fiscal year. Village rolling stock capital is also paid for through a town taxed. That will be true this year and next year, assuming that budgets get approved. It's coming budget season. So there are some things. In other words, and just to be clear, whenever we say this going to the town tax, it means that's a tax that we all pay. Yes, yes, there is no such there is no there is no longer a town outside the village only tax that went away as part of the negotiation of moving the village rolling stock into the town budget. Thanks Dennis and thank you. Thank you. Sharon, Sharon, your hand is up, you're muted. It says Sharon Irene. Maybe we'll we'll circle back. Any Cooper, go ahead. Hi, thank you Andy please forgive the I hit the applause thing a moment ago instead of my hand up that was not intended. Two things Dennis I sorry to Andy, I should speak to Andy. I'm not certain that the way that the town. The way that I'm trying to find a way to say this play so Dennis I appreciate the time you took I appreciate the time that Dennis has taken to put into the conversation that he just had with Gabriel Smith. My understanding is that the, the, the, the fairness aspect of how many projects we pay for as a town that occur in the town outside the village area. It has been severely lopsided and I think we all know that's a, I don't think that's a. Andrew Brown could you mute yourself please. Sorry. I think. Thanks, Andy. I think that we, I think that we all know. Oh Sharon is locked out of unmuting. I'm happy to wait and let Sharon speak. Maybe she'll say something that will she's pretty smart. Can you guys unmute her. I don't see her in the meeting anymore. She's, I see her, my screen has Sharon right next to you and Sharon right there. Yep. Okay. I don't have the ability to unmute her now. All right, I'll keep going for a second, but if you get it, I'm happy to be quiet. So anyway, it's, it's, it's historically been that our, our total town taxes have gone very significantly toward those projects that are on the town outside the village and we've all been okay with that. Because like what Gabrielle just said, we've all been always, you know, rooting for the rooting for team town all the way. Obviously the rooting for team town has, you know, needed to part ways. And I'd say that I'm cautious about how I will vote on the budget and I think there should be a bigger. So any, are you talking about the capital plan here. Yes. Okay, go ahead. Am I, am I being, am I being confused? Well, I'm, I'm, I guess I'm, I'm, it seemed like you're going off in a different direction and not talking about the capital plan anymore, but I'll let you continue. Well, you might be right. You under my point is obviously probably clear and I think maybe I'm fudging it a lot because I didn't expect to be talking about this I think I might have combined two things at once and I'm a little embarrassed but thank you for your time. Thanks, Anthony. Um, so I still see Sharon Zuckowski's hand up. Andy could be in mute lockdown. Could Sharon maybe sign off and then try to come back in again. If that works. So in the meantime, let's go to Patty Davis. Yeah, hi, Andy. If you want me to start. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to remind Annie Cooper that her hand is still up. Okay. I just have a question so I understand because Dennis has always been so clear when I pick his brain and I really appreciate that. Dennis. I want to understand that I remember one time during a select board meeting way back when Elaine Haney was on the board, and you were trying to explain to her when she wanted more projects done in the village. Why aren't more projects done in the village and I listened carefully took notes and I just want to clarify my understanding. Do the capital projects in the village that they voted on themselves, you know how they vote for their own thing and then they vote town wide they vote twice. Does the fact that you know our two cent capital tax and everything that does does the amount that one gets for a match like a grant effect, where the projects were done during that time when when you had the discussion with Elaine at the select board meeting. I just want to ask why are more than in the village. I just want to understand if, if it has to do with whether you one gets a grant, either the person in the village that's responsible for the capital plan project, and that and you being responsible for the whole town project. That's the voting twice thing. What, what is it that I'm not understanding Patty do you have a question about you have a question about the current capital plan or you. Well, yeah, I just wanted, I want to be clear, I just want to understand if it has anything to do with whether one gets a certain either from the village or the town. I mean, that's the town capital plan if you get a certain amount for a grant or a match does that affect where the projects are done. And I can answer that. The answer really is no. Qualified no but no. Here goes. The stormwater for example, we have basically said we're going to fund all of the flow restoration projects. This was back three four years ago, whatever their cost out of the town's capital fund, both town and village that was part of the MOU that was signed between the select board and the trustees. We have not changed that the only difference is that in some cases, some of the projects moved quicker and got their grants sooner. So we were able to fund them sooner but that was not all those projects were have always been in the capital plan. Once we identified what those projects were. I mean, wasn't was to a degree based upon grants, but not that the funds wouldn't flow it's just that when the grant became available, and the project was ready to go. We said go build it. We didn't care if it was in the village of the town. It so happened that one of the projects in the village went first. One, one in the town and one in the village went in the same year and now the last one is coming into town, about two years after the others. So it's been a function of timing, but not a function of policy procedure administration, or politics it's just been. Let's, let's build it as soon as we can fund it. Thank you you really clarified it thanks a lot. Andy or muted. I'm muted Andy. I'm on mute. We can hear you. I was hoping to hear if Sharon Zuckowski was able to unmute herself looks like she did. I am unmuted. That was weird. All right. This is a question for Dennis I think is he's still here because I missed a lot of us trying to sign there. So I had a question about the stormwater expense which seems rather large. Has this been around for a while or does the, the expense is it related to all the new building that we've had in like the past. I know that the state requirement for stormwater has been around, I think for a couple of decades. So I'm just wondering if this is a consequence of all the building we've done, or just something old that we're fixing for stormwater. I'll answer that. Yeah, go ahead Dennis. It's not. I just knew buildings have an impact on everything but that's really not the basis for this the basis for this is, is a permit process that the state has adopted. We've gone through three or four permit cycles of, and I hate to use the jargon but it's a NPDES phase two stormwater permit for the each community has. The county has had this permit since about the year thousand maybe 2001, but they've amended the permit as it's gone through the process and the very, the largest amendment, the most impactful that change was about your tax on my memory here five or six years when the state said, you all have to look at your streams and reduce the flow going into the streams because that's strong that high flow has an impact on the biota, which in fact has a downstream impact on the lake. And so we looked at both Sunderland Brook and Indian Brook, and Sunderland Brook was fine it met the criteria, Indian Brook was not. And so we did some studies between the town and the village for projects built though so we've completed that part of the full restoration plan. About the time we sent our reports in and said, great we're done with that piece. The next piece of legislation or permit process that got passed was removal of phosphorus in the lake. And this is based on total pounds of phosphorus that have to remove the town and the village. It's not key to development because we're requiring new developers to put in systems that will help reduce the phosphorus impact in fact with every development approval. That's one of the questions we ask is how much suspended solids how much phosphorus is your particular treatment process going to take out. We're going to do more along those lines to basically better control future development, not that we haven't already but it's going to go, it's going to become more more important as we go forward to do that, but the basic premise is based on the size of the community and what that community as a whole has. We've done all kinds of computer modeling has as an impact on the phosphorus load in the lake. And so it's not not based on our development or the increase in development based on essentially what we what we have when the law was passed. Because that's what the modeling was based on, and they took into account the impact of future development but that's minimal compared to the baseline that we have to meet, just because we're here, and have been here. So probably, maybe less development or more thoughtful development would help that and one other question do we so Alderbrook wasn't tested. Alderbrook Alderbrook was not an issue. The river is a separate watershed issue but Alderbrook was not impaired from the studies that were done. The two streams that appeared to be impaired were Sunderland Brook and Indian Brook. And there's a, there's books on that in the office in terms of the studies that were done. The explanation is they compared all the streams that affected the lake with pristine streams up in the Northeast Kingdom. And they wanted to get those streams that had similar geo hydrological geo hydrological characteristics, they compared them and they said okay based upon Indian Brook this stream resemble stream X up in the Northeast Kingdom. Therefore, you've got to remove this much amount of flow or reduce the flow to this level, and that will help those streams better allow the biota to grow and not get washed out every time you get a heavy storm. I'm not a modeling expert I'm not sure that I agree 100% with the way they did the modeling but the bottom line is when you do the modeling and then you put in place the system that we've designed or put in place. At least on paper, we meet the criteria down the road they're going to do more modeling they may find we've got to do a few more projects but a lot of those projects that remove phosphorus will also impact the flow so that by going after phosphorus we'll probably be able to reduce some of the flow regime that affects the streams that ultimately getting to the light, confusing but that's the best way I can explain it. Thank you. Thank you Dennis. Thank you. Thanks Sharon thanks Dennis. Any other comments. Greg are there any hand up hands up in the room. Nope. Okay. Don. Don you're muted. I'm just waiting to make the motion to close the hearing. Yeah, I got no more. I don't see any other hands up. And I don't see anybody participating by phone. So, go ahead. Make the motion we close the public hearing. Thank you down. Do we have a, sorry did I cut you off. Do you want to say more. Nope, you're fine. I have a second. Second. Thank you Don thank you Pat any further discussion. All those in favor please say aye. Aye. Okay public hearings closed let's move on to the first business item which is consider adoption of the fiscal year 2023 capital budget and five year plan. Any select board comments. I'd like to make the motion and we approve. The fiscal year 2023 capital budget, physical year, I'm sorry, physical year 2023 capital budget and five year plan. Thank you Don. I have a second. Oh, was that Tracy. Okay, thank you. Question I have, do we adopt or do we approve. Greg. I think it's adopt. Is it adopt. We had adoption in a minute. I think it's adopt. I think either one will suffice. Okay. All right, so you don't need to change. So either one works so no need to change the motion. All right. Any further discussion. All those in favor please say aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay motion passes for zero. Thank you Dennis. Okay, moving on to business item six B interview and potential appointment to Economic Development Commission can signal. Can are you on or in the room. And is in the room and walking up to the mic. What do you want me here probably right. Yep. Okay, so can I introduce yourself and let's know why you. Audio sounds okay. Hi. Yep. Can hear you. Yep. Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Ken Signorello. And you have my application for one of the open seats on the Economic Development Commission. Would you like me to go through my background or answer questions first. I think introduce yourself and then we'll ask questions. So you know me somewhat from my application for the Conservation and Trails Committee and I'll take it from there. So I've actually owned the business and operated it since 1981. I think about it 40 years is a long time. But when I moved to Essex, I brought that business with me. I've been operating it since that 16 years ago. And since then I've done additional businesses here in town. Many of you probably know the Darkroom Gallery down at the five corners. That's actually my business. I leveraged my photography hobby into an exhibit system. And she got for 10 years. In addition to that, I've had other businesses published a weekly newspaper in Burlington called Harbor Watch. And I did that for six years. I've been operating businesses pretty much since I came to Vermont in 1979. And I've had lots of experience in doing that. And I do believe that we have some great opportunities here in Essex. One of the things that I've noticed is that one of the most significant resources we have here, two thirds of our town has either forest land, farmland or grassland. It's a prize to find that out. So one of the things I'd like to do on the Economic Development Commission is start to focus a little bit on that. I'd like to find out what kind of operations we have going on there because they're not your normal businesses. They're mom and pop, sugar operations or vegetable productions or egg productions. There's lots of things going on. I was just on Brigham Hill Lane and I saw two logging operations. So I'd like to really leverage that resource a bit more and see what kind of economic activity we have going on and make sure, for example, every single landowner that has more than 25 acres, not including their homestead, knows about the current use program. That would get potentially more forest land into active management, which I think would be really great and would boost our economic development here. So my background is basically business oriented. I've been operating these businesses since forever, it seems like. And I do believe I understand what businesses need and what would attract them to our area, as well as I'd like to see some of what we have as a resource be leveraged a bit more. I see situations like, for example, Citizen Cider. Citizen Cider, you may not know, started out testing their product and developing their craft at Chapin Orchard. Then they set up shop at Fort Ethan Allen. They grew and I don't know why, but they ended up in Burlington. I'm not sure if we have the opportunity to keep them here. I don't know, but that's the kind of situation I would love to see stay local. In addition to that, we have now some breweries that just popped up. I would love to see those breweries supplied with local raw materials, local hops, local grain. So we can have a all Essex produced product here. Those are the kind of things that I'd like to try to focus a little bit on in the Economic Development Commission. Right. Thanks, Ken. Any questions from board members who wants to go first. Don looks like you're unmuted. I'm done here. I have just a couple of questions. The first one, and I'm just going to clear the room and I'm going to ask it and I'll buy up to us some people. Ken, do you feel there's a problem because you are part of the Essex Retorter and wanting to and you want to serve on the Economic Development Committee. If I'm on the Economic Development Committee, I'm going to have a lot less time to do any reporting for the Essex Retorter. Just keep in mind that the Essex Retorter is not my business. I just have reported on it from time to time reported for it from time to time. So the chances are if I'm on the any committee or commission, I'll be doing less of that. Thank you. My second question is where, where do you see we can grow more business in the Essex experience area. That has been talked about a bit. I've been to a number of Economic Development Commission meetings and they think they're focusing on that to some extent. There's a lot of conversations going on with Mr. Edelman. It's not something that I'm particularly wanting to focus on. I think that they're handling it. I'm really more interested in developing our agricultural businesses. For example, I was just reading about a new thing, agrivoltaics. So when a property puts in a solar farm, if you raise it to eight feet and spread the panels out a bit more, you can actually raise crops and harvest under those panels. It's happening in Colorado of all places. Certain crops actually do better in those circumstances. And the evaporation from the plants underneath actually cool panels and actually they perform better. Thank you. Okay, Pat or Tracy, or yeah, Pat or Tracy, any questions? I was just wondering what Ken feels the top three priorities of the EDC should be. I've already told you one, obviously developing the resources that we have a bit more. I'd like to see a little more consistency in the meeting schedule itself. There's been a sort of a break. And I'd like to see that the commission actually get together more regularly and focus on the work that they have. And finally, they've been working on the commission has been working on a database of all businesses in Essex, which I think is a good idea. But it doesn't seem to be getting too far. I think that's probably is a priority and should be worked on a little bit more aggressively. That three. Thank you. All right. Ken, your name is currently up for two committees. This one and the conservation and trails. I guess one, one question is, do you have capacity to do both desire to do both. I do have the capacity to do both. If you so wish it. Okay. Let's see question. Other question I want to ask is more to staff. There are two seats open. Correct. Yes. And I have heard that there are other candidates who have come forward recently. Is that true? I've heard there's some people interested. I don't know if we've actually received applications yet, but I have also heard that there are some others interested. And we do have the economic development commission is looking into, I think there. It may have voted amongst themselves to make a recommendation that they open the commission up to have up to two seats for non resident business owners to bring in some additional perspective and help help. Make sure those seats are filled. And that should be coming to you probably within a month, if not sooner. Okay, so we don't have any, we don't have any actually any, any active applications this point. Not that I'm aware of. Okay, okay. All right, so can I think it's likely that the board is going to want to go into executive session to have a discussion about this appointment. So we will, if we, if we make it that far tonight, hopefully we'll go into executive session and have our discussion and then town staff will contact you tomorrow if we make a decision. Thank you for the time. Appreciate it. Okay, moving on to next business item, consider 30 day extension of town of Essex rule requiring wearing face coverings indoors and public spaces. Greg is there anything we need to go through on that. Just give a quick overview. This is a law that's allowed to act one that was passed by the state, allowing municipalities to implement their own mask requirements. The town of Essex implemented its current rule on December 7. The state law has to be reviewed within 45 days to consider being extended. It can be extended every 30 days through April 30 this current year of April 2022. So with that in mind, the first 45 days is coming up on January 21. So this is an opportunity for the select board to take a look at the mask rule and decide if you want to extend it with or without modification. What's in your packet had a few, I think minor modifications just clarifying some of the dates that are in there and saying when it would be extended to and mentioning that April 30th date, just to put that out there. At this point, there's no enforcement component to the Essex rule on speaking to the police chief. He agrees that to keep it that way is probably the best way of doing things. I'd support him in that. Just taking the time to have to respond to complaints, track down enforcement fines, pursue those would be quite time consuming. We were afraid. The chief said there's only been 13 complaints. The rule has been in place. Only one of those was for an individual and it was a business owner asking how to how to respond to a customer not wearing a mask. The rest of the complaints have been mostly about businesses that didn't know it was in effect the police have spoken to those businesses and once they understand that there is a rule in place there's been no issue. Happy to try to answer questions about that if there are any but that's the that's the rundown. Thanks, Greg. Any board member comments? Don, I hear hands. There's no legal way to extend it more than. No. We have to continue it. Thanks. In fact, the 30 day this 30 day extension expires before we have to take this up at our very next meeting also. So yes, our. February 7th meeting will be reviewing this again to extend it potentially for. We could find more days to extend it. Thanks. Yep. Any other board member questions or comments? Okay, there's been a significant number of emails that have come across the last couple of days. I've tried to respond to all of them that I've. I did have to cut things off about 620. So not a single one was against the extending the mask rule. I'm mentioning this because probably a third of the emails I got today were addressed solely to me. They were addressed to the board, but there were a fair number of them that were addressed only to me. So let's see. Without any, there's no board member comments. I think we'll go to the public. One thing I do want to say is if we've got a long agenda tonight. So if, if try not to repeat what someone before you has said, it's fine to say that you agree with with prior comments and leave it at that if that's, if that's what you are willing to do. But trying not to extend this too long into the evening if we can avoid it. So first hand I see up is Marcus or to. Thanks Andy. May I ask one clarifying question about this rule before I give more comment. Yes, you can. Yes. And I speak as a resident of Essex. I also speak as the president of the board for the Essex community players. Under the current mask rules, it requires that a mask be worn in all public places. In the interpretation going through the FAQ, it seems to be defined that the public place is where the public has access. If you have a threshold where an invitation or admittances required like a ticket, then it sounds like that rule that rule then no longer applies. Would that be your interpretation of that rule. So we have we have shared that possible interpretation with gyms for example where they say their front counter is public space but then their own rules apply inside. They have access to either members or paying customers that are paying for a single day or however they they choose to run their business so once inside that then the rules for the business apply. So this thing happens with say a major manufacturer that has RFID access to their buildings that they're there. Those areas are not, you know, available to the general public. So if the Essex players and I understand you have a performance toward the end of February. And please note that as I said earlier we will be reviewing this again on February 7. So depending on where things are with the with Omicron. I guess we'll see what happens then but I guess to answer your specific question you, you. I believe you could interpret that a someone who has purchased a ticket. You're not going to let the general public to just walk in and sit down for one of your performances. Correct. So if if I may I'll share my share my comments then. So a potential difference I don't want to clarify though is that many of the gyms have policies themselves where they require their members are or are users to provide proof of vaccination so you're. So, if I may I hear you. So if I may. So again, the board of the of the Essex community players last fall before while we weren't in a mask mandate actually already had had a rule that upon entry of Memorial Hall, everyone had to show proof of vaccination. Every member of the cast crew and patrons had to show proof of vaccination before coming into the hall. And that's how we continue to proceed. That's the way we're still looking at it. So with that in mind. And again with the comments you just made, please know that I just I recently reached out to Ali vile about this who acknowledged the fact that while that interpretation may be true because we are in a municipal building. Therefore, it's a higher standard. Therefore, it does not apply, but I do not see that within the rules that a municipal building has some additional restriction on top of that. This is not impacting the town staff. This is us renting an open building that happens to be owned by the town. That being said, again, my ask of the board tonight is to simply ask for an exemption from the aspect of we still have our masking rule and vaccination rule in place and are planning on keeping that in place. What I'm hoping for is that the board will consider an exemption for performers only on stage. That way, they can put on their performance unmasked. Again, we already have rules about vaccinations in place. We have, and we are checking that upon, you know, entry into the hall. The other thing is this also this rule that this exemption that I'm asking for is similar to one that Burlington put into place and is being. Done while widely at a number of other performance venues. So this is not an unusual exemption to which I'm asking. But again, this is about the fact that, and I understand that there's going to be another check in on February 7. But as you can probably imagine, in order to put on performance like this, we have a lot of planning, a lot of right now we're in rehearsal, and we have to be prepared for what that performance is going to look like. The performance changes, mass to unmasked. It changes depending on the circumstances. So we need that planning time in order to work that performance. So my ask of the board on behalf of the board of the Essex community players is that the board consider please exempting performers as a part of this rule. I'm not asking for it broader because I recognize the way the town is going but at the same time I'm trying to find the best way that are that our show can put on the best possible show. Because I believe that right now. The mask will make the show much more difficult. Marcus, Marcus, thank you. I think you made your point that the, the one key factor there is your, you've reminded me that you're in a municipal building. And the, this is separate, separate jurisdiction, I guess, the, the municipal managers safety policy requires. It's not the, it's not the select board's rule that that determines whether or not masks need to be worn in a municipal building. There's another layer on top of this. Yes, the vote of your, your, could you please be. But when Marcus you're in a municipal building so we have to have the discussion with discussion needs to. Just say. Sorry about that. Please, could you please mute your. You hear me. Could you please you're not, you're not, you're, we're hearing your, your household, can you mute your someone else just talking now. Could you mute yourself please. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. I, yes, I am on mute. Could you please mute yourself. Thank you. Okay, sorry, Marcus. Sorry. Did you get my point there that that we need to have a discussion with the safety aspects in a municipal building. Is it is a different. It's this that. I understand you're saying I, again, I think my, my feeling on it still is a matter of this is not the city hall. This is not town offices. There's no municipal staff in this building. It's a wide open building to which we're managing and renting from the town. So, municipal building is. Yeah, we will. Thanks for your room, but we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll take that into consideration when we have our discussion. Thank you. Okay, thanks Marcus. Next person with their hand up it says Darrell's iPad. Can you please clarify your name. It's Darrell Langworthy. Can you hear me. Yes, we can. All right, sorry, yeah, sorry, I tried to log over my computer. It wasn't happening for some reason so the iPad work. So I guess I just want to voice this as a business owner here in the, in the village. I'm trying, I get the, the climb in the virus and everything else, hence why we got to this point of talking about a mask mandate. But I, but I guess my two issues I have was how quickly it was done. Without really noticed to the public that you were going to have a vote on it to hear what the majority of the people might think, or business owners and then to the burden that put on as business owners over the last month, you know, or so 45 days or whatever with this to, you know, people not knowing having to deal with customers. And then the fact that a majority of people were already masking. So what was the intention of it to, I guess is one of my questions, you know, to make a mandate when majority of people are already starting to mask up on their own. And I felt like they're doing it more freely than we're at this point now where we're telling everybody they have to again and of course the biggest thing is rebel. I want to be clear, I wear a mask, I have fully vaccinated my staff where I'm asking everything and they've been doing it before you made a mandate, but I just try. It's literally affected small businesses and I've talked to several business members in the town and in the village that we, not that we don't understand the mandate. But we feel like there was a better way to approach the situation than necessarily the mandate. And then continuing a we've all seen losses in business and everything else from it, because people have boycotted us. Or it started the whole process of that happening like three days after you guys put it out you had to put out an actual thing about don't wake up businesses and I six because of mandate. Did we really cause more of a problem than we did a solution. And is that what we're going to continue to do. I guess is my question. All right, thanks Darrell. Gabriel Smith. Thanks. Yeah, I'm very much in support of continuing to mask mandate. I don't know that it's something that really is matter of what my opinion is and I'm not a doctor or specialist but it seems quite clear that masking is in everyone's best interest while I appreciate that there are people who are not complying for reasons of their own. And I do understand that the mandate does not come with the ability for the police to enforce it and understand why that is. I don't think that it should stop us as a community from defining our norms to the mandate and in this community we look after each other. And we are asking that people who live here and who visit here and shop here and come to our community wear a mask because that isn't everyone's best interest and we need to norm that behavior as much as we can. And we enforce what doctors and health officials have been trying so hard to communicate to people who live in this country and in our community. And I would ask that you consider and I realize it may not be possible for the possibly the police. I don't know who might be this but we could find a way to I don't know remind or encourage businesses to post the sign outside their building I do think that helps people. Some folks are just meeting to remember when they walk inside to get that mask on and having a sign up can be helpful for that and just just making people aware that that is the norm for our community based on the mandate. Thank you. Thanks Gabriel. Raj Chala. Thanks Andy sorry I was across the room wasn't sure where I was in line. I was listening to Marcus talk about the waiver for entertainment and I think it's an interesting idea I just encourage the board to take some time, especially if you're going to have until next meeting to look into what that means and the ramifications of that. There's no other communities as he mentioned before deciding on that tonight. It sounds like you have some time before their performances without causing too much pain to the troop. It could be a significant impact on the community. I'm considering the the waiver of using a municipal building rental or not. I'm not saying one way or the other I'm just hoping you take the time and don't decide tonight do a little research. Thanks. Thanks Raj. Any Cooper. Hi, thanks Andy. I support the man, the mask mandate. We're almost out of the woods with our mark on it will be not too much longer now I think hanging in there is respectful and appropriate. I agree with Raj about the Essex players and thank you very much for your time. Brian Sheldon Brian you're muted. Can you hear me now. Yes. My name is Brian Sheldon I live in Essex. Thank you chair watch for this opportunity to speak arise today to ask the select board extend our indoor mask mandate for another 30 days on on the stand 2020 Vermont was averaging 142 COVID cases per week. On the day y'all passed the rule here in Essex from I was averaging 261. And today we're averaging just under 2000 like 1999 when I looked at New York Times website this morning. Now I'm not a public health expert and I'm sure you're going to hear from some tonight including Raj. What I am as an engineer. And what that means to me is we should continue things that the data shows are working. I'm also I'm also someone who understands a little bit about messaging. And I'm sure as you've all seen the narrative is going around that folks don't have to follow our mask mandate, because it has no penalty penalties. I recommend so I recommend that you fix that. Let's follow Wilson's lead and implement civil penalties. As, as Mr Dugan pointed out, there aren't that many of those. There's only 13 complaints doesn't cost me shouldn't cost a lot of time for the police department to and to enforce those. The numbers for going down I can understand the argument that the penalties weren't necessary but but 2000 a week is greater than 680 week. It's time. And last I wanted to reshare a story that I shared when you implemented this in December. My partner and I wanted to go to Turner toys to get gifts for Christmas. When we did this is before the Essex mass mandate. There's a gentleman behind me who wasn't wearing a mask. The Turner toy staff approached this gentleman and said, I'm sorry, but we're requesting that all of you in our store where a mask. Instead of getting angry leaving the man apologized reached into his pocket and put on a mask. So, I thank the staffer and I ended up spending more than $100 there that I never plan to spend. And if they hadn't enforced their safety rules, I would have turned around and left. So I have to beg to differ with with Darrell and I'm sorry about the, the, the impact it causes on local businesses, but I disagree that it is hurting businesses, it's hurting businesses not to have mass more. I let's make, let's continue to make Essex be the safest place to live to work to shop and to learn. Thank you for your time. Christine Gaynor Patterson. Hi, I'm a resident of Essex Junction. I agree with everything that was just said, I want the mask mandate to continue my own personal example is I went out to a local shop for the first time like restaurant to grab a cup of coffee for the first time like last week. Because I knew when I went, and I would go in there and order everybody would have a mask on and I could get what I needed and left so I'm actually spending my dollars more often because I feel more protected while I'm out in the community. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks Christine. Yeah, first of all, apologies for my blunder earlier. I just, I agree with everything that has been said in favor of the mask mandate. And I just want to share like a quick story. I have been working with the hospital, especially the physician and nurses in that are working in the war to help them with their basic education and ventilation. And I can tell you what they've told me. They are the moral is extremely low. There are some units are one physician away to not function because there are four or five physicians down with COVID. And as you know, your specialization keep ramping up. So I think what is missing in all of this is really. There is not an understanding how dire the situation is in the in the healthcare system. We are starting to see that in the educational system where sx school district had to close every single school but the high school because thank, I would like to thank you for that. They saved the midterms of the sx high school. So we are in the diaspora right now. And we don't know when Omicron is going to go away. We don't know if there is a new variant behind what really people need to understand is that masking is the first line of defense science has proved it. I'm a COVID researcher, my specialty is in aerosols. And I would implore everybody to actually up their masking game. If you want to get out of this, please find N95, even if the feed is not perfect, it's still better than a cloth mask or a poorly worn surgical mask. So I really thank the board for their action. I have personally seen very few people not wearing a mask. And lastly, with respect to Marcus, I would if the board is okay with that, the board can contact me. There has been actually multiple studies on symphony, how to make symphony safe with COVID. And this is not, this is not that hard task, and that expensive task. So if you're willing, or if you're interested, I'm willing to help on this. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Okay, Nathan O'Connor. Yeah, I would just say, thank you to everyone for being here tonight and I would also, I endorse the extension of 30 degree, 30 days for our mask mandate. And also, I'm a researcher in immunology and neuroscience and I would really, really PPE has been has a long, long, strong history of protection in science and medicine. And that's personal protective equipment. And that starts with masks. They work. They protect people, they prevent transmission. The science behind that is not in question. What I would really ask is, if this is hurting business, I would love to see some evidence of that. So I want to turn it around and ask, where's the evidence that that business is actually being hurt by by an unenforceable mandate, frankly. So, yeah, as a scientist, this is a little bit silly to me. That's it. Thanks, Nathan. Sharon Zuckowski. Hi there. I'll keep it short. My emails to you are very long. And apologize for that. I also, as you know, am in favor of some sort of enforcement capability because I am not going to name them but I know two businesses in particular that are telling their staffs not to enforce it and not wearing masks and as to losing business I will never go and lose businesses again. So I, you know, I just, I think the people that weren't wearing them before still aren't wearing them and we who are are, you know, abiding by the mandate so I hope, I hope you'll consider some sort of enforcement capability because I know the police are short staffed but they could just set a couple examples. And I'm not saying that's speeding. You don't stop everybody from speeding and don't stop in people from speeding saves lives too. That's all. Thank you. Thanks, Sharon. I don't see any other hands up online. Greg, are there any hands up in the room. Okay, I'm going to scroll down and make sure there's nobody participating by phone I don't see any phone participants. So I will. So Rachel Lizzat had her hand up at one point but I no longer see her in the meeting. Okay. All right, so I'll bring the discussion back to the board then. Any board member comments. No heads. Okay, I was trying to raise my hand. Yeah, I've talked to a few people but I think that, like most of us on the select board, a lot of our evidence has to be a little bit anecdotal. So, you know, watching to see when I go to Hanna Ferds, how many people were masking before the mandate and how many were masking after it was a pretty significant jump in numbers, which is really what we're looking for. You know where we're doing this as a preventative measure to help keep our community running. And we know that right now it's in danger of not. Before but you know my own daughter's school was canceled last week. You know because they simply ran out of teachers. There are so many who are sick currently with COVID. We have a pretty significant portion of our populace who does work or do work who work each day at the hospital. You know, the cutting the transmission where we can is just simply the most responsible thing to do. I'm not entirely certain myself as to whether or not adding civil penalty would really get more compliance or not. I think we may be at a point where I think realistically there's always going to be probably five or 6% of people I'm making the number up pretty small number who simply are never going to do what we're requesting even if there is a civil penalty involved. I do think that the wearing of masks has increased pretty substantially in our community since the addition of a mass mandate. So I would prefer to continue the mandate as it is right now. And then the question is to performances. You know, I feel that opens a box in some ways. I don't think any of us would feel comfortable if there was a concert that required ticketed entry and 300 people showed up at the fairgrounds and if they had tickets, it would be a similar situation. I realize that the aspects players are going further as far as you know checking their cast members and vaccination status but my preference would be for us not to rule on that until February when we're a little closer to, you know, seeing whether or not we're through this hump with Omicron or not before making any further decisions. Thanks, Pat. Tracy are done. I just want to echo Pat's comments around just being able to visibly see as we're out and about in the Hannaford and, you know, going to the hardware store things of that sort. But Andy, I also wanted to mention at the beginning of this topic you mentioned that we didn't have any emails in opposition. I had counted three emails that were in opposition to the mass mandate. And in that same comment, there were roughly 50 in favor. But I just wanted to make sure that folks knew that we did receive their emails in opposition. Okay, thanks for that correction Tracy. Don any comments. No, I'm good with the Patrick and Tracy have said. Okay. One thing. Maybe it's a unrelated but I want to bring it up because a number of folks asked about whether the town could provide masks. I know it's a potentially a can of worms with regard to how to distribute equitably and what, you know, or the suggestion is to use ARPA funds to do that. Greg, I don't know if there's any town response to whether there needs to be more thought. Around that. I think that's basically it, Andy is we need to give it some more thought, record equitable reasons for just broader use of ARPA and how to do that. There's a memo in your packets today that we just get some more guidance from from the feds around around ARPA and we do want to spend some more time really kind of considering that and and how to roll it out. Thanks. Thanks Greg. Okay. I agree with, you know, anecdotally, you know, going out to the grocery store is there's definitely, you know, I've seen Hannah Ferds at multiple multiple different days during the during the week, different times during the during the day. And be right before the we put the rule in place would be anywhere from 20% to 80% of people wearing masks and now it's, it's, you know, high 90s and I just assume anybody without a mask has a valid medical reason to not have it. It's, you know, usually handful numbers in the whole star. So I'm, I think we've, I think we've achieved what we set out to do. There should be an educational opportunity, not a punitive one. So, I agree with not adding in the enforcement at this point. So I guess does anybody want to make a motion don go ahead. I would like to make the motion that we extend our mask mandate by 30 days as originally stated. Okay, second. Second. Thanks, Pat. So, Greg, does that do we need to put dates in the Yeah, if I can, um, suggest a friendly amendment. As, as presented with the changes in your packet to include dates clarifying when the rule will be in effect. I'll accept that change. Thank you. Thanks, Don. Yes. All right. Okay, any further discussion. Okay, all those in favor of extending the mask rule for 30 days, please say aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay, motion passes for zero. Moving on to the next agenda item. 60 consider approval of statement in regards to village of s extraction separation from town of Essex, Greg. Sure. So in your packet is a memo that you had seen at your last meeting. It incorporates now a few changes that were discussed at that meeting. Sue presented some, some recommended changes in the second second bullet. And Tracy had pointed out some stuff out in the last bullet, the two sub bullets there. Just to speak to clarify what some of the impacts or potential impacts might be. So the memo that's in your packet includes those changes. You can see them in track changes. Okay. So that was all that was changed from the last time. And we'll leave it up to the board if you want to make more changes and or approve this as is. Hey, one of the, one of the other things that came up at the last time we discussed this is I. Andrew Brown was actually chimed in that he and I had intended to get together to have a short discussion about what to do with regard to addressing the legislature. He and I did speak. His intent is to review the merger votes and separation vote history and the proposed charter and timeline and then discuss the agreements that we've been working on. And so my, my, I guess my, my response is that I don't want to go into, you know, I don't want to propose a potentially contradictory history. I just try to stick with, I guess the, the, the content of the document we've been working on here and, you know, potentially, you know, provide that to the legislature with the, with a discussion of, you know, it's it's main intense. I wanted to share that back to the board with what our discussion, you know, discussion with Andrew was also the other the other thing that I will likely would want to bring up is the potential impact to the town of the potential, the, the known impact to the remaining town of a substantial tax rate increase and the discussion about what we want to do to try to mitigate that with regard to use of fund balance. The shared service agreements that that may have continued some continued for these for a couple years of financial transaction associated with them. I think, well, please for one will be hopefully be a long term one and then the assessment is a shorter term one. So the intent to take the coming the transition year to work on efficiencies to see if there's there are things that we can do in our efficiency for our processes. So I think those are the main points that I mentioned to Andrew that we would like to also address here. So I guess, having gone through that. The other thing I guess I want to make is tomorrow one o'clock is the first reading to the for the gov ops. For the charter change. At this point. There we've not been in there's no indication that that any testimony is expected. So I think this is just a first reading to the, to the gov ops committee if anyone wants to join in with that I think the, there should be links available on the legions pages website to get to that committee. Because everything's online now you can access it and attend light real real time. Do you hear what said. So I think I'm going on long enough any anybody have any comments on the document here in question. Any comments or questions on what I've said. Go ahead, Greg. Yeah, as far as the, the comments you made about fund balance and shared services, did you, we look to have that incorporated into this statement. Or is that just something you were bringing up to be aware of. I guess I made those comments in anticipation of being asked if the town is okay with the separation and what the impacts of the town might be. I don't know, maybe, perhaps other members could comment with we want to how much detail we want to get into with regard to potential actions that future boards may take. And I think that's another, I guess consideration is we all might not be here when it happens. But I don't know, I guess, I guess I'm looking for others to comment on that. If you think we should incorporate that Patrick I see your hands up. It is though I don't know if I'll be able to provide any clarity for your question about incorporating it to a statement or not. I do just want to reiterate that I have thought about it over the last two weeks, my stance on this remains, which is that as it's not select board initiated and with clarification that I don't think that there's any legal ramifications or issues with it that I don't think that we should take a position. I know I'm in the minority there, but just to reiterate that I do feel strongly that this is not something that we should be putting out if they ask us for testimony I think that we can give that. But as far as a formal position like this my preference would be to simply not take one. John or Tracy any comments. I'm fine with it as presented. Andy I took your comments regarding our options is just that option. We haven't decided on any of those. But I think it would be fine and logical to present them as such as options that we may be able to take in the future, or another board as you point out. How about, I guess with regard to taking a position. I guess that that Pat has brought up. I don't want to ignore that the, the, I've always felt, I've always thought of this document as something that to be shared with the legislature and I don't feel that this is a, a document, a document of support or non support. It's more a, an acknowledgement and so I don't know what. Andy at the beginning of this, we made the statement that as a select board we were not going to stand in the way of the village working in their separation plan. To me that statement enough for we're not getting in their way we're trying to work with them and help them work out the deals of what a separated village and town or city and town would look like. I don't think we need to make a further statement. Maybe, maybe Pat, can you clarify when you say position taking a position are you saying that are you, are you objecting to this document in its contents, or are you objecting to us voting to approve it. Had to unmute myself. The objection is to taking a position that is literally at the top of this memorandum. The issue is whether the select board wants to take a formal position about the separation. Honestly, I think probably 80% of this language is very new is extremely neutral. I do, or I have heard, and other citizens have come to me saying that they don't feel it's neutral that they think that there is language in here that can be used to prevent the village from separating. Honestly, I just feel that if we are indeed not standing in the way of separation then there's no need to put out a statement that could be chosen to be interpreted by members of the public in one way or another. Simply, what has dawn mentioned, you know, we said we're not going to get in the way if some members of the public or some individuals on other boards think that this position, or rather this writ statement written as is has a potential to derail it and I would prefer simply not taking one at all. And as I mentioned, I think that that fits within the select board's history. But that's, that's where I came down with it. You know, again, I appreciate all the work that's gone into it. It's definitely tough there were some good discussions around it. And like I said, I think most of this is completely neutral but on the off chance, I would just prefer not to. And I don't want to put you on the spot if you don't have it at your fingertips. I guess what and maybe you don't want to say it here or you know or something which I guess I'm wondering which particular language is because I know I know I was I was I was in your position, not too long ago with regard to stuff that went out about about merger. And I don't want to, you know, completely discount your concern. Yeah, perhaps I'm, I'm not putting the right eyes on the right of my own right position of my own eyes on this as well. No, I think it's a good, you know, I think we're having good conversations around this. And I have heard this was not my first interpretation on reading it, but I can see the point in the second bullet. These most recent votes to merge the majority of voters in the village voted in favor of the merger proposal where the majority of voters in the rest of the town voted against the merger as proposed. I don't know that that's the case. One or two members of the public said that they were against the merger as proposed but they are not against the merger in totality, we're putting some language in here on the public that we don't know if the case or not. You know, so, I mean that was, that was the first one that I heard and that was brought to my attention as something that people felt could be, you know, us misinterpreting or putting language where it shouldn't be. Do I think government ops is going to have a super a large concern about it. I don't know. Probably not. But if, you know, we have the ability to simply not take a position, then I would prefer to err on the side of caution, you know, we're in very tricky waters where, you know, things we say and do could have ramifications beyond the intent. And that's just, this is where I ended up with it. Sure. So, what is the board wanted to do here do we want to continue to take more look, look at look a closer look at this and try to scrutinize whether we're adding intent where it isn't intended or back to my original question and maybe Andy don't know, but maybe great. Why do we need to issue a statement who's asking us to make a statement. My idea behind this was that there's a decent chance the select board or someone from the select board will get asked to go before the legislature and testify, but to have some talking points and a statement ready that the select board has as more or less agreed to so that you're going in with some preparation and and being able to speak more than just off the cuff about the town and the select board are reacting to separation. Yeah, so right so I, I, I, you know, assuming that you're going to want the chair to go I don't want to right go in there and fly by the seat of my pants. I really would prefer to have some language I can refer to that the select board agrees to that supports. So I think that's the big part of that Tracy go ahead. I think, Andy, you sort of just said what I was going to say is I don't see this as a position I don't see this as a state like a press release type of statement. I see this as talking point to prepare for the eventuality that presumably Andy will be asked to the legislature to testify. I would agree with Patrick that maybe that as proposed, could just come off, because that does assume, which we don't want to do the only statement that we can make is that the majority of the voters in the rest of the town voted against the merger. Why, we don't know. So I would offer that as a potential change. I'm just, I'm trying to try to figure out steps forward here we can continue to discuss this meeting after meeting or we can. And I think, I think given. I think there's significant significant validity to the question of maybe going through and making sure that we don't have any other inadvertent wording that causes problems. My only concern is if we, if we run up against the need to testify before we close this. Andy would make you more comfortable if you had these as talking points if you're called to testify is that we were telling us. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Then, I'd like to make the motion that we approve this statement about the separation of the village of ethics junction from the town of ethics, removing as proposed from number bullet number two. Do I have a second. I can. Thanks, Tracy. discussion. And I know you, you brought this up with you feel more comfortable if we put more scrutiny behind it with the lens that you were suggesting. I mean, I think I would need to some time to go through the document yet again. Kind of pinpoint it. So, I mean, I think regardless that I will be voting. But, you know, again, it's, it's not a comment on the work or on the language that we have all done here. It's just to be clear. I think everyone has done a great job putting this together. It's, it's just, it's a procedural thing for me. And I'm, I'm, to be honest, I'm actually a little reluctant to approve it tonight as well without going through with the, with the, you know, the lens of are we putting any inadvertent intent in any of this. I have not looked at it in that, in that light. So, Greg, if we, if we vote against this, can we bring it up again if we change it again or is this is as it closed the question. Oh, you're testing my Robert's rules knowledge. I hope Tracy's got her hand up. Someone who voted in the opposition of how to vote well now. Yeah, because if it fails. So someone who someone would have to make a motion. They would have to make a motion to reconsider. And then that motion would have to be voted on and then the original question is back on the table. Okay, so I guess before we go there there are some hands that are starting to go up. I guess generally we don't allow public comment after we have a motion on the floor but since we neglected to go to the public before we made the motion board okay with going to public comment at this point. I see Tracy nodding I can't see Pat. Yeah, I'm okay. Okay. All right so I see a couple of hands up which I think are residual hands from previously Brian Sheldon is your hand up for this topic. Are you still up from previous. Nate's not I'm sorry about that I'm trying to lower my head. All right, thanks Nate. Andrew Brown. Thank you so much in my sincere apologies to coming into the meeting with a with a hot mic that I didn't realize was hot earlier so my apologies to the background noise that interrupted the meeting. I cannot thank you enough for taking the moment to taking this moment for a pause. And frankly, if the position of the select board really is the select board does not want to stand in the way of the separation efforts. I really encourage you to follow that example that the dawn was mentioning of have that simply just be the statement. I do completely agree that having talking points is very, very important nobody wants to go to the legislature blind or feel embarrassed. In many ways, none of us are going to be able to predict all the questions that are going to be asked. And so, really being able to just be prepared so what has gotten us here, and your plans moving forward as we discussed or what's going to be important. In my opinion in my assumption. In terms of what is currently written. I really think that pause is important because many of the points there can be taken I believe in ways that could be interpreted as standing in the way of separation. I think the statement of there has not been a townwide vote, which I believe is in the second bullet. This appears to be to be included because a select board wants to have a townwide vote before the legislature decides on separation. If that is your intent, keep it in. If that is not your intent, please take it out. Similarly, the, the impacts in the final bullets. Every single one of them are negative in tone and give the impression that the select board opposes separation. So again, if a desire is to not stand in the way, then please take those out. I would be happy to go through this in more detail with you with any of you offline in terms of having a bit of a conversation as to how this may be perceived by by those who have not been in the weeds. At any point in time that we can we can make work. Additionally, I would say that it would be important to let the amicable separation resolution, the progress on our agreements, and that statement of not standing in the way be the limit of any formal vote. If any, if you make a vote that approves of even these as talking points, then again that can give those same perceived assumptions as to potentially opposing separation. If, again, the overall position of the select board is to not stand in the way of separation, then make that be the formal vote. Anything else opens up a can of worms that none of us may want. Thank you. Thanks, Andrew. Sharon Zuckowski. Very short. I have an issue with the expression because I've heard it on the EDC with the expression offline. It's a little bit about public meeting law when you're talking about offline meetings with the select board. Thanks. Yeah, we wouldn't certainly not meet with the quorum. Yeah, yeah, I knew you knew that but just like that expression like what offline now. Thank you. Yep, thanks Sharon. Any Cooper. Yes, thank you very much, Andy. I'd like to just say thank you to Andrew Brown's comments I agree with them but also to this look forward. Really I appreciate your, you're really being so thoughtful and working so hard to be fair minded and it's obvious to me especially tonight and I really almost I really appreciate it. Thank you so much all of you. Okay. Okay. I guess we have a motion on the floor. It takes some public comment. Any other board member comments. Oh, I just see Patty Davis his hand. No, is it a hand up or is that a thumbs I'm not sure. Sorry, I'm trying to figure out this computer. I just want to say Andy that you are really thoughtful and you're so thorough. I love it you're just like really good when it comes to detail. Right. My take on the whole thing. I'm rereading it rereading it is factual. It's non emotional. It's just factual. It's basically just stating what happened. That's all. And, and there's no emotion involved that you're you're definitely a team player and you want to work this out, but you're going to be asked to get up there and say something and, and I think by just stating those facts on that paper. It's not a statement as in this is my position. I'm just I'm just telling you what happened. Period. That's what happened. And those are the facts. No one can deny that. And that's all. So, I'll just tiptoeing walking on eggshells I think is making you more uncomfortable. I think you just go in there and state the facts, and then let them figure it out that's their job not yours. You did, you did a great job. Thanks buddy. Any other public comment. Okay, there's any hands up in the room. Nobody's looking to speak here. Okay. All right. Okay. If you could put your hand down. What's the board's pleasure here as my ex levy or as used to say, Okay, the motion is to approve a slightly meant amended version with the as proposed removed from the second bullet. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed. May. Okay. Motion fails two to two. I do intend to take a very closer look at this document and potentially bring it back up. I'm sorry for. Not having taken a scrupulous look at it previously in that regard. And thank you. Greg and other time staff for the work that's gone into this. I think a significant portion of it will be used. All right. Moving on long agenda. Next item on the agenda is consider requests from conservation and trails committee to increase membership to nine seats. Greg. There's a request and I believe somebody from the conservation and trails committee is here to speak to the request. Hi, I'm Mike Spader. Vice chair for the CTC committee. And designated representative. I believe that you that the select members of the select board have received a. Memorandum from Darren Shibbler. We are requesting that our charter be changed to go from. Seven members of the conservation and trail committee to nine members. And we have a rather aggressive agenda. I'm trying to get things done and we think that we can benefit by bringing in some additional members. And we make that formal request to the board. All right, great. Thanks. Any board member comments. You might get some questions. So stay there. Yeah. Curious. How, how often is your board been at full membership or has. At any point in the last five or 10 years, have you been under membership? I'll just wondering it's. I think right now we have one opening and three. People that have applied for that position. And I think that there's a consideration to appoint a couple of them at the end of your meeting. Frankly, we have a couple of these are very well qualified and we think that they can bring a lot of value to what we do. And that is part of instead of having them as just volunteers, we'd like to have them as full fledged members of the committee. I guess what I'm asking is in the past, rather than right now, I understand where we are right now with the interviews. The reason I bring it up is that we've actually had several requests to change the size of committees, certainly since I've been on the board. And honestly, typically, I think we've usually denied those requests because the number of members on a committee can fluctuate the amount of interest in any committee can fluctuate. And if we move you up to nine, then it's a five quorum to get things done, but if you lose three members or four members, then you guys start looking to be in very rough shape. So it's, you know, again, I can't this is not 100%, but in the past, I think that we've been usually reluctant to expand it just because of, you know, a time of temporary, you know, influx of interest. This will continue for, in fact, I hope it does continue for some time, but people can still be volunteers and they can still attend these meetings. I guess my question then is, if I want to rephrase it, do you need nine committee members or can you continue with seven and have volunteers from the community, I guess. We quite simply knowing that we certainly can continue at seven. You know, right now we do have one vacancy that we're hoping to fill. We happen to have the luxury right now of having some additional interested members that we thought might make for very good members of that board. But we see it and as you see it, you know, it does fluctuate and yes, we could very well come back, asking to go back to seven. So, with that being said, our recommendation is to the board that you consider changing the charter to nine, but we respect your wishes. Thank you for the clarification. Appreciate it. I see Greg, your hands up. Do you have some history you want to share? Yeah, to answer. Thank you. Thank you. Answer Pat's question a little bit of history of the conservation and trails committee used to be two separate committees. There were two five member committees. They met. They had an overlapping meeting once a month and it was largely to review development applications. The conservation could look at it from an environmental conservation standpoint. The trails committee would look at application trails sidewalk path perspective. Both committees had had trouble through those ebbs and flows and sometimes the trails committee would have five members and the conservation committee would have to and it would meet for informational purposes but not to make any decisions. It would flip flop conservation committee would be full and the trails committee would be down numbers. So a few years ago, staff made a recommendation and the committee's made a recommendation to combine to get the second number committee. Since then it has had to float a bit I think generally it's been full but I just recently and great that there's interest but you appointed I think four members pretty recently. There were four openings. There's now a fifth one. So there is some ebb and flow to it. Darren Shibbler the town planner and I who staffs the committee had spoken about this and absolutely respecting the recommendation from the conservation and trails committee but our concern is that does ebb and flow. I'm thinking about other options of ways to get people involved. There's been projects in the past and putting the word out has usually a pretty good community response in terms of people helping out with projects whether that's a street tree inventory, Indian We some a cuckoo our community development director had the suggestion of perhaps appointing alternates to a committee, rather than increasing the membership planning commission has that for instance, in place now that way you have people who who are committed to going to meeting staying up to speed, you know, beyond just the single project volunteer component, but also gives you a little bit of flexibility so there's not a request coming back to lower the membership or increase the membership based on the number of seats or applicants that are there so Obviously staff will Like the conservation and trails committee respect the decision of the select board, but just wanted to share some of that history that you asked about Pat and give you staff's perspective on this request and others that may come up for other committees as well. Thank you. Thanks Greg Tracy. I don't see an issue with this, especially given that, you know, the history that was just given. I do agree that the CTC does have a very ambitious work plan, their charge is sort of all encompassing. And I would like to focus on this more from I'll use it again the, the, I guess the tree level, not the leaf level around our our committees, really able to focus and serve the purpose for which they were formed. And whether that means reworking their charge reworking their membership, combining or making the connections between their work plans. Again, I go back to a racy matrix who needs who's who's responsible, who's accountable who's consulted who's informed on any sort of project. So I really like to not necessarily now with our workload, but I'd like to look at this through the lens of the entire committee structure rather than just this one request. But with that said, I don't see an issue with the need is obviously there the desires obviously there. Thanks Tracy. Don any comments. So I guess to be to be Tracy to be clear you're saying you're okay with expanding the nine. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I agree with Tracy. So, Greg you mentioned the alternate option. Do we have a plan for dealing with alternates with regard to who gets paid a stipend. Because we were believe we have factored that into our stipend discussion yet. I'll have to check tomorrow but I don't think we have any guidance on that yet. Okay, right. So the kid, yeah, because the questions that come to my mind are, you know, really the voting members because presumably if you have voting members plus alternate all the voting members plus the alternates than the voting members would get. I don't know what they would everybody get the stipend, or is it just the voting members who happen to be there establishing the quorum on and then the other I guess the other question is weird scenario is is if you start a meeting with the quorum that includes an alternate and then a regular member shows up. What happens with regard to who votes and also who is there. Does it be this stipend come into a weird situation there as well I don't know how you're, I don't know how that's being handled, but I was intrigued by the alternate option, then I started scratching my head over the, I think we would need that to establish a policy around dealing with the stipends and also who gets to vote if an alternate comes in. Alright, so I guess the question question is whether to expand from seven to nine sounds like there's some support but let's go to any other board member comments. See some hands up. Ben it's done. Thank you Andy. I'm a member of the conservation and trails committee as well. And like Mike I do think that having the additional people on the committee, especially with the expertise that we're seeing in them. And the things that we have on our list that directly apply to them. And they would be. I really think committees are ways that we build leadership. And I think when committees are engaged and are working on projects that the community becomes aware of I think it generates a certain amount of energy, not alone on the committee but also within the town. And committees that, you know, take on this kind of work. Really do help the town develop leadership. That's what you want to do because certainly you don't want to be sitting on the board when you're 90, and, and have people follow you. And this is, this is a ladder as far as I'm concerned and I think the nine is really going to help us do what we have to do this year. Thank you. Thanks Betsy. Any Cooper. Hi, thanks Andy. Personally, I don't mind how many members are on any committee. My concern is that one of the candidates for two committees this evening is so we're not going to attack anybody please. I'm not attacking anyone, but I have a right to speak publicly. You do. So you're preventing me from speaking publicly is uncomfortable. When I'm just cautioning you to not attack any. I don't think it's inappropriate. It's so when we look at committees, and we look at who's serving them. We need to recognize if they have public interest at heart. And the fact that you were already preventing me from speaking about what I want to speak with tells me that you know what I mean. Thank you. Thanks. Very post. I just wanted to say that listening to this reminds me of the whole Memorial Hall debacle. And it's like, I think, you know, things don't stay the same. And I think a lot of people now are getting more interested in the environment and more interested in, you know, the treasures that we have in our town and what can we do to save them make them better. And so to use, I just don't agree with the idea that, well, they had trouble in the past keeping people. I said, here's a group now that is asking for more help because they really want to do more. And I think that's what should be looked at, and not all in the past this didn't work. You know, like we never, most of us at least that I talked to didn't know about Memorial Hall and as soon as we heard Memorial Hall was maybe going to quit their committee. And so several of us volunteered to be on there and all of a sudden the whole thing is shelled, not to be heard about again. And it makes me wonder who's really pulling the strings what's really going on here you ask for community involvement people get want to, and then it just goes away. I really support this committee asking for more members because I think that they're only going to help, you know, take care of what we have in our town that I think we're in danger of losing if we don't take care of it. Thank you. Thanks. Any other comments from the public. There's one in the room. Great. Hi Irene runner I am exhibit a of someone who started on a committee and merger task force back in 2005. And I've been a devoted volunteer in various capacities ever since I still wave at people who are driving the town rolling stock. I still feel like I'm part of the team and in fact I am part of the team I serve on the Essex Energy Committee for the 15th or 16th year and I'm known as the institutional memory. I also publish a newspaper in town. As a member of the fourth estate. To be a check and balance on the government that I love. And I want to see do its best. There is no reason to criticize anyone reporting for a newspaper. You just serve their town. I read we're talking about expanding a committee number of people on a committee. Thank you. Increasing the committee. Thank you. Thanks Irene. Full disclosure. I read and I spoke about the energy committee on my front porch and that was what got me into politics as well. So, Happens happens to others as well. Okay. Any other Betsy Dunn and Mary post you both still have your hands up, but I'm not going to call on you. I'm just pointing out that your hands are still up. Don. Given that there appears to be no more discussion from the public. I like to make the motion that we approve the request from conservation and trails to increase their membership to nine. Thank you Don do I have a second. I can. Thank you Tracy. Any further discussion. Please say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed. Nay. Okay now this reminds me and we'll have to go back to the prior motion as well but I remember during the past discussion that if we're attending remotely we have to do a roll call vote if it's not unanimous. So, Don your vote. Hi. Tracy, your vote. Hi. Pat, your vote. Nay. Okay, and my vote is I. Okay, we neglected to do that on the previous motion for the consideration of the position statement so my apologies to have to return to that but Don your vote. Tracy, your vote. Hi. Pat, your vote. Was in a. And my vote was in a also sorry I neglected to do that the last time. So just to fill that in and do proper procedure. Moving on to the next business item, business item F6 F consider authorizing unified manager to Stein letter of support for unified planning work program request Dennis I still you see you're still here. Oh here. That's fine. I apologize for bringing this up on the active part of the business part of your, your agenda but the regional planning commission requires that you have the opportunity for public input. And if it was on the consent agenda we couldn't do that so that's why it's here. The regional planning commission puts out requests for obtaining requests in the various towns and municipalities for doing work under unified planning work program. And every year, since probably I've been here at least recently, we've submitted requests for work from the regional planning commission. The list is smaller and some of it's probably routine but I wanted to go over the list. It's basically three projects. The first project is televising our stormwater pipes. We've gotten grants for the last two years of $50,000 each year. We've been able to do the first year that will be doing the second year of that grant in spring. And the reason I'm here from talking to the regional planning commission is that because of COVID and the financial situation they're going to have additional funds. So this year we put a request in for $100,000 to hopefully complete our televising of all the old storm lines throughout the town. And if we don't get 100,000 we've requested that they at least provide what they've done in the past which is $50,000 would allow us to get a third year end of doing that televising. That leads to finding where the pipes are bad, where they need to be aligned. Most of these are old metal pipes, 50 years old rusted. And we did some lining this year for the tune of over $100,000 on Sand Hill Road. And we plan to do more as we go forward. The second item, we always request they do some traffic counts. We tend to request their traffic counts on the heavily traveled roads. Ours will be more on our side roads we did provide a list of roads we'd like to have them do this year. That is not there's no local charge trust for doing that it's just work that they would perform with their interns. The third area is important. It's every four or five years we should redo really do an update to the road management plan. We just start that probably will not finish it until or Aaron will finish it probably later this summer fall, but a key component of that is looking at the condition of our roads. And having the interns from the Regional Planning Commission, go out and do what's called a PCI test or pavement condition index looks at cracking looks at potholes looks at the condition of the roads rates those roads. To essentially combine with our own analysis to look at what roads need to be paved over the next four or five years and establish a priority based on the pavement condition index. We then throw in things like traffic counts. Obviously a road could be in bad shape but if it's only got 50 cars a day and we've got Susie Wilson road with 35 or 30,000 cars a day. It can make a difference in terms of which ones we tackle first, but, but the PCI is the first starting point of that. We've collected that about every four to five years you want to do that again and have them essentially do the work and they would underwrite that cost. That's the three week request. So the recommendation is that we approve our request and that the select board, if they do approve them, authorize the manager to sign a letter essentially indicating that it was presented to the public tonight. That's it. All right, thanks Dennis, any board member comments or questions. Any questions or comments from the public. No room Greg. No, not seeing any so done. Seeing there's no discussion from the public I make the motion that we authorize unified manager to sign a letter in support of unified planning work program request. Thank you don't do I have a second. Second. I think Pat got that one. Thank you Pat. Any further discussion. Okay, all those in favor please say hi. Opposed. Okay motion passes for zero thank you Dennis thank you very much. Yep. All right. Okay on to 6G discussion and potential action about including retail cannabis opt in vote on town meeting ballot. So, Pat, I remember back at the beginning of the year, back in the last year, you, you would wanted to manage this topic when we talked about it but I want to just shout to you before this meeting do you want to take the range you want me to handle it. Oh no you can go for it Andy. I'm not I'm not prepped so I could probably do it step right here sleep but yeah my apologies for not prompting you on that. So okay. So the situation as I understand it Greg did you want to go through something or you want me to run down the situation at this point. Go for it I can chime in if you need me to. So we had been anticipating the a petition to put the vote, the vote for retail cannabis opt in on the ballot for town meeting and the petitioner reached out to the town back in November and there was a request that the petitioner wait until January so that we wouldn't have to have a special election to do the vote based on the timing of the of the petition. And so the petitioner agreed to do that and was was happy to accommodate the request of the town but it turns out when the petition was turned in a number of them were not valid registered voters of Essex. And so, on the order of 250 signatures short. So the question is given that we need to warn the town meeting agenda. Next week. The question is, do we want to go ahead and go forward with warning or are asking town staff to put together the appropriate wording for us to warn it ourselves or do we want to push back to the petitioner to obtain more signatures. I miss anything Greg go ahead. Just the one thing about if I think the deadline it's past either today or tomorrow might have already passed in terms of getting more signatures. Oh, for the ballot so if there is a petition that comes in, it would probably end up being a special election at some point. And I got you with that. So, so, but I guess I guess to be to be totally clear though there. We don't have a town vote in April, there is a vote in April, but it's not there's no, there's currently no intent to have any town questions on that. Correct, there's the townwide vote for the school district and there's a village right. So at this point there's no municipal town business plan for April. And so that would drive if we were if, if, if that that is a potential for a future voting date but we would have to either get us to print our own ballot made to print a ballot to go and go with the school districts right so that's an unexpected cost. So, okay, all right Don I see your hand up. Well, our town Canada's committee has met often and opt out we're not making a commitment we're just by opting in we continue to participate in a discussion with the state. We can make you know our own decisions further on by opting out then that shuts the door for us to establish any kind of future with Canada. I just encourage us to put it on the ballot. We don't have to print the ballot anyway. This is a time to do it not make a special ballot or a special election. So, I know, Don you're on the, you remember the committee that's that's investigating this situation and so the opt in versus opt out is whether we would allow retail establishments in the town of Essex. Correct. Right. We still have the, the opportunity do we still have the, the opportunity to affect the zoning that would apply to such establishments. You do by opting in if you have to opt out you have no say. Right. If you if you if you opt out then they you can't you can't have a kind of retail operation in. Right, right. There's no, there's no, maybe maybe a step back a little bit there's no control over growing processing packaging. Any of that that's all all controlled by the state is law and our, I assume that we, we have zoning that allows, you know, that kind of use and opt in and opt out is only is for is for retail only. And Greg question I have and maybe I'm stepping on too many questions here is, do we have time to adjust zoning. The schedule here is, if we were to vote in March, they still can't open anything until October. Right. So yeah, the retail establishments issued by the state are supposed to be effective in October. The planning commission has already started to have very preliminary conversations about how to implement zoning around retail cannabis. So they do have a bit of a runway and that has it is something that they started talking about, obviously the more time they have better to prepare for it. What is what is the zoning change process. Once the planning commission approved zoning changes. It is a warrant for a public hearing and it goes to the select board. I can't remember if it's one public hearing or two. But it starts with the planning commission then goes to the select board before final approval. Okay, so there's no townwide vote for zoning. You don't have to have zoning available for necessarily for town meeting vote, or for a warning of the time meeting now. Okay. Maybe I'll allow others to ask questions pat you get your hand up. Yeah, I agree with Don. More specifically, because there was every intent made by the petitioners in the select board to accommodate us putting the question on a ballot because we assume the petition signatures would be there. For full disclosure, I did get a phone call from Meredith man explaining she was the original petitioner. You know, she explained, you know, her viewpoint as she had it. There is every intention to if we don't put this on the ballot to continue collecting signatures have no reason to doubt that they won't get them. At which point, simply we are just spending $10,000 on something that we know is coming. You know, I think we could say here and equivocate about whether or not they'll get the other 200 signatures but I don't think that they're going. I don't think that the petitioners see that as a huge stumbling block and honestly neither do I think that they're more than halfway there. Really, to me, this is simply a question of, do we put it on the ballot when we know we can fold it in with other items or do we wait and pay an extra. I don't know I said 10,000 I think it's somewhere in the 10 to 15,000 range, you know, assuming that we can somehow also get onto the April ballot just seems much cleaner to me, especially since the petitioners were very gracious in waiting to submit their petition they could have submitted this easily back in November December. So I think that from what we told them and with what was expected of them I feel that we should put it on the ballot and just simply simply get it done instead of having to do it later and then I think that honestly also will answer a lot of the questions about zoning because if it's a no in the town, then we know that that work doesn't have to get done. But if it's a yes then you know they have until October to make the changes get feedback, do whatever we need to do from a town policy standpoint. So I would support this, along with dawn for putting this on the ballot. Thanks, Tracy. I would support this as well. It feels almost a little underhanded to ask the petitioner to hold off. And then when they do turn in the petition, and then the signatures are verified. They don't have enough and then it's, oh, nope, sorry, it just feels wrong to me fundamentally. The community members have been asking for this I see no harm in putting it on the ballot. If it does pass we have roughly seven months to put in place the zoning and other discussions that we need to have. So I have no issue with putting on the ballot. Thanks Tracy. I'm going to tax your, your, your, your planning experience again here. So, establishments can open in October, if they're opening in October when do we have to have the zoning in place. I mean, if we went when can somebody put in a, you know, a permit request, if we vote March 1. My understanding of it would be that if the zone that they would have to comply with current zoning regulations, which I guess that's a question of would this be considered an undefined use or a retail use. That's getting into the weeds of planning and zoning. But if, if something is permitted before zoning changes, it would be allowed to remain in effect. Right, zoning changes any new business coming in after that change would have to abide by the new rules. Okay, so, so, yep, it does. It absolutely clarifies it right that that March 1, when we vote, somebody can come down to the town offices on March 2. And then pull a permit for a retail established establishment. Is that correct? I don't. Or do we know that this is and don jump in, since you've been on the cannabis committee, I think the state is not issuing its permits yet and it's going to take a little while. Right. So waiting on the cannabis control board at the state level to make some of these final decisions. Okay. First of July, you said done. That's what I understood. Yeah, so I think there is some. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. I just want to make sure there was there was there was time to actually put. And I'm not. I'm not using it as an argument not to put it on on the ballot. I'm just want to understand the, the ramifications, the timeline, because we haven't really had too much discussion about Canada's. So. All right. So, Tracy, I see your hands back up again. Yeah, and I don't want to get too far into the weeds. But the, from my understanding through final rulemaking, sort of the, what I see is the most important parts of regulations are set where they can't be cited within 1000 feet of schools and daycares. So that's important to note. So that doesn't take any, any left on our park local zoning that's at the state level. And most of those regulations are in place at the state level. Great. Thanks Tracy. Okay, so then we will go to public comment. I want to remind folks again that that's the best thing here and I need to get up at five o'clock tomorrow morning and go to work. So if, if you can keep your comments brief and if you are okay with agreeing with the somebody ahead of you. Go ahead and do that if it works for you. Just trying to keep move this along if we can. So I see Raj child as hand up first. I think your comment just now about keeping comments brief about a topic like this as the sixth or fifth item on the agenda at 910 at night kind of speaks to what I'm about to say. So I'm here to ask the select board to engage the community in a thoughtful and complete conversation about the pros and cons of electing to opt in on retail sale of cannabis and Essex. We have read flag to our community, and this board that we are here discussing this issue now because the petition was filed. Select Board of Municipal staff, excuse me, have not had time to bring this to a community conversation, and had to rely on a petition to push the question. This petition however failed to garner the requisite signatures falling short by 225 people, or 25%. Regardless of the petitioners willingness to wait to submit this but submit this petition they failed to follow the clear guidelines to garner the 5% signatures from Essex residents. And now we find that select board worried about a special election mid year is willing to consider overlooking that fact, and maybe place this question about March 1 just six weeks from now. As it relates to a date for a vote. We have a state national election this November and as there will be a Senate House election I would expect turnout to be very high. We should maximize that turnout on such an important topic. In addition, retail sales won't begin until October. This delay on voting should not be a significant hardship to our residents. While petitioning for a vote could arrive mid year. I hope any petitioner would consider the points I make above before asking the community to incur the extra costs of the special election. Essex residents will see no tax benefit from the retail sale of cannabis without also approving a local option tax. This means for instance that if retail sales correspond to an increase in any law enforcement activity or increased need for social services that we subscribe to this will be borne by existing budgets and Essex taxpayer taxpayers will be fully liable. They would not recoup any of these costs from the sale of cannabis, because we have not added community conversation in the local option tax. Many do not really realize this. The select board has indicated earlier this month that in no way does the board or staff have time and resources to engage in the community and adding a local option tax, which is a rather straightforward 1% addition sales tax purchases. I would argue that the impacts of adding a 1% sales tax are dwarfed by the financial societal and public health impacts of allowing retail sale of cannabis. We acknowledge that you have no time for community outreach and a lot due to lack of board and staff time how can you possibly engage in the topic of cannabis in the next six weeks prior to a vote. It has been said that once the vote is done the real work will be via zoning changing zoning can be a long technical process. And the results of that discussion should inform the community's decision on whether they agree with retail sales and not the other way around. It seems counterintuitive to ask someone to approve of these sales without first knowing where they might occur. Clearly after this conversation this evening there are many questions that staff can answer, and more answers coming in the chat that staff probably haven't seen yet. Residents are being asked to make a decision on retail sales without having a final set of rules from the state's cannabis control board rules are in proposed form and only two are in public comment. Several still need to be taken up and none are final. Again, why would we vote on something we do not have actual facts and a complete rulebook. There is one accurate information regarding the impact of retail sales of cannabis in Essex is largely absent from any of our municipal resources. I worried that this effort will mirror the ineffective effort collecting community input on the local option tax. The information hosted in our town and village website is incomplete or request for corrections and information additions related to the area of public health impacts was made by a content expert, the person who delivered your presentation in December. The information and adding accurate information, all mentioned of any public health info was removed. Are there any public health experts on the informal municipal cannabis committee that consists of town and village staff one trustee and a select board member, but has met infrequently and held only one hastily arranged public hearing that was poorly attended. In addition, taking this vote forces the village of Essex junction to move forward in a way in which it may not be ready, as we have not met the criteria of outlined above. How are you forcing this, unlike with alcohol the vigil village main performance own cannabis control board and regulate retail cannabis sales within its borders, but if the town town votes to do this first. I'm asking the board to proceed unless the village has had the opportunity to vote. Should the village decide to wait to kind of to have the kind of education facts based educational fact based conversation with our community it deserves. The town could approve a business within the village, regardless of what village residents want to wrap up I'm asking the board to change to choose to engage in a complete thoughtful factual and functional dialogue about whether we want retail sales in Essex and if so, where should sales occur I'm asking the board to resist the expedient path for one the prayer to prioritize this resonance over business interests. You'll notice I didn't bring forth any arguments for against the sale of cannabis I don't make any claims above. I only asked the board take the time to discuss this to bring in experts and provide accurate complete information to ensure voters are ready to call the question. The state has put us in this intangible position of having to make a choice like this with little to no information. I argued there's simply no rush, you can opt in at any point in time. Thanks. Thanks, Raj. Betsy done. Thank you Andy. Well I disagree with Raj. I'm sorry you're saying that I shouldn't say I apologize. I, I do believe that opting in or opting out is something that is not a new term for people I think they've heard this before. Do they know everything about cannabis, probably not. But I think just having the question asked, do you want it or don't you want it in your town. And I think that they can answer that question. And I think it's good to have it done because I think the people who are potentially the sellers that having the retail shops would like to know and get that off their bucket list and go somewhere else to put it into a different town that has opted in. And whether or not we gain a lot because of the local option tax or not. You know, I buy beer at the Essex free at the Essex beverage, and they don't there's no local option tax there it's something I enjoy. And I'm sure the people who would enjoy the marijuana would feel the same way. It'll be. But I think just the opting in or opting out is the issue at this point. And I think that's really what we need to focus on. Thank you very much. Thanks Betsy. Mariah Flynn at Sanderson. Hey, thank you. I also wanted to strongly advocate that there is absolutely no reason to rush. Similar to Raj, I think this is a really important decision with very long lasting impacts on public health and the use of the community and our ability to have a thriving and healthy community. There is the way that the law was set up, we are allowed to hold an opt in or out vote at any point in time there is no, there is no time limit on that so we can hold it five years from now if we want we can hold it in October. But there is a lot of reason to take caution and how you proceed with this. There is, I think, when someone who works in both public health but also substance use prevention work. This is one of the substances where I've seen the biggest disconnect between the public understanding of where we are with the substance the potency that, that it looks like now and the types of products that are available now and where, and where the public understanding of that is. And so I think it's really behooves the, our community to make sure that we understand that people know what they're voting for, or voting on. And that at this point, none of us know what we're voting on because the regulations or the procedures around what this legislation looks like or what this, what this law will look like are still under consideration at the state level. So we still all of those decisions won't be made until April. So if you have a vote before that essentially you're asking for community members to vote on something we don't even know what we're voting about. And it's clear honestly from the conversations I've attended around these meetings is that even the folks on the select board both at the village and the town don't understand what the options are and what's going to happen and what what's coming up and what's going to impact our town so I think it makes sense for all of us to have the time to be really thorough and thoughtful about this. There's things that we haven't even discussed things like water quality in our town that we haven't looked at what's the impact of that going to be as someone who really cares about the environmental impact I think there's a whole bunch of pieces to put in there. There's public nuisance around odors that we haven't looked at there's public health impacts there's impacts on increasing substance use rates and accessibility of the substance and promotion to you from the community there's all sorts of things that we really need to take the time to be thoughtful for. I think as Raj was mentioning there's no real benefits locally to us in terms of financial incentives so but there is potential financial costs to us locally so we really need to be thoughtful about what that's going to look like. And I really encourage us to, to not try to rush through something that feels like a really long, really important decision long term, and just to clarify the actual current record recommendations although it's not put into policy yet but the CCB's current recommendations are that there is a 500 foot barrier from schools only that does not include daycare centers, but their current recommendations is a 500 foot. Alright, thanks Mariah. Brian Armstrong. So first and foremost, thank you the volunteers the town I'm amazed at how guys, how hard you guys work to see both sides through. I am one of the owners of magic man who put forth that petition I'm also was born and raised at Essex and while I applaud the open dialogue. I second the motion of those people or the idea of those people to put it on the ballot. We, as somebody grew up in Essex and believes in the value of the community. It was really important to me that we looked at Essex to create jobs. We fully support the idea of a local tax when it's appropriate put it on we'd love to pay it because we think it's going to be an opportunity to responsibly bring cannabis which is already in the community. Secondly, to create jobs and thirdly, I do believe there's a source of tax revenue for the residents of Essex. I will agree with the town that one person who spoke on behalf of the town that we worked really really hard to safely get these signatures in one of the most interesting time in our country society or history to get these signatures. I would like to reinforce the issue in November. A if we were all our petitions were correct or signatures correct. We would have cost the town I heard anywhere from $10 to $50,000. We were asked to be responsible, we stepped back, we did that. Unfortunately, yes, there were some errors with signatures. So I do believe, you know, it's in everybody's interest to put this in a ballot, not to agree to anything, but just put it on the ballot and like Ms done said just get a pulse of where the community residents are. If not, I totally challenge Raj and the other woman who spoke while I appreciate your concerns. I'm the parent of three children. And I can tell you, I'd be far more concerned personally about the sale of alcohol than the sale of marijuana, especially when done in a heavy regulated fashion. But unfortunately, it's not going to be November. I think Pat Murray is correct. If unfortunately, it's not on the ballot. Yes, I believe in in this community, I believe in creating jobs and there's a chance that we will secure those in the very near future. That is not our preferred course. We think it's great community. We love to work with you guys we got you know somebody from our company also lives in Essex, you know just about to speak and again we want to be responsible, bring cannabis and responsible fashion to the community in a way that respects concerns, add jobs and create taxes. Thank you very much for your time folks. Thanks Brian. Meredith man. Hi, thank you for having me. I wanted to touch on a few points one is, I want to be clear that this opt in boat is for retail only. It is not for cultivation so it has nothing to do with odors and you know, stigmas such as that so to be really careful about knowing what you're voting for and that's kind of what I really want to touch on is that magic man is really all about education. We welcome everybody walking in our door, no matter where you stand on this issue and talking to us and having a dialogue. We, I just really want to stress that we want to help with the education, we want to make sure that no voters in Essex are left without the information they need. And that will continue on as long as magic man is standing in Essex. So it's something we really believe in, and can speak to we've done a lot of work with the control board, and with the cannabis community and we want to share that with the Essex community, and we feel like we can be a very positive asset. And I second what Brian said we're, no one's more sorry than me with all the hard work that the petition numbers fell short, we could have gone out all weekend and collected them, I frankly didn't want to expose our community or my employees this weekend and felt like I had faith in Essex to do the right thing, and really just let the people vote on it. And I really hope that you will come to me for education and information throughout this process, and that I can help you confidently put this on the ballot for March 1. I really wholeheartedly hope all of you can support us and vote yes so we can create jobs and get going. So, thank you. Thanks Meredith. Karen Moino. Thank you very much. I agree wholeheartedly with Mariah and Raj. I, to have lived in Essex for a long time about 20 years. I am a parent I have four daughters to who are graduates of Essex high school to our current students at the high school. I believe that our youth will be negatively impacted by the sale of cannabis in our community. I do agree that education is is needed. And I encourage the public to look at the health impacts of youth in Colorado, where it's been legalized since 2012, cannabis has been legalized since 2012. There's a lot of information out there, and they can check out blue rising together, and they have worked with creating some new laws in Colorado to address the problems that they've had that have negatively impacted them. The other thing I'd like to say is is that I've heard that putting on the ballot is getting a pulse. I don't think it's like taking a survey I'm assuming it's a binding vote. So, if it's voted on then it's in and the licenses can be granted so it's not really taking a pulse. It's a binding vote. That's all I have to say. Thank you very much. Thanks Karen. Okay, now I see someone that says Kevin or his iPhone, could you please identify yourself. Hi, I'm Kevin or well and I'm a resident, I am involved with magic man as well as some other businesses is my everyday life. Really I'm speaking as a resident of Essex. So, this is legislation this opt-in opt-out language has been coming from the state for a long time. So Essex is really just the conduit of that state level legislation. And so it's my view as an Essex resident that I want to have that opportunity in line with the rest of the towns, because there was sort of a town meeting in 1922 deadline, which did change throughout the process to do this opt-in opt-out vote. So as an Essex resident, I want the opportunity to be able to sort of participate in that democratic process. And while certainly it's not getting a quote unquote pulse, there is the opportunity for the town to react accordingly from a zoning perspective. And then sort of lastly, let us not kid ourselves, Chittenden County is very small. Whether Essex opt-in or opt-out, which should be up to the town's people to vote on when every other town is voting on it. They're going to be able to go to a news your Williston or South Burlington, right. So, let's not pretend that preventing retail sales and Essex will somehow isolate Essex from being a part of the cannabis industry overall. It is likely that opt-in opt-out will come up as something to consider. They did it in Colchester with Costco, you know, affectionately referred to as the Costco tax. So I certainly urge the board to have voters voice their cells as a conduit to the state legislation, because that's what the state is dictated. Let the town speak. They're the conduit of the state legislative process. And I think it's important that we have retail having a regulated market will increase the health and safety outcomes as it relates to an unregulated black market. So it's certainly my hope that the board will include this as a ballot measure. Thank you. Hey, thanks Connor. See, I don't see any other hands for as you already spoke. I just wanted to add one additional thing. It's quick. Yeah, I would just remind the board or point out that it appears that there's not clarity amongst the four of you that are here tonight. As to what the impact of this is, what opting in actually does, what this vote will mean for the community and how it will affect the zoning process. We've been through a lot of petitions in our past bunch of years here. We've been through a lot of recent votes where there was a lot of hesitation on moving forward with something without all the facts. And it's, it's very clear, if nothing else tonight, that this board doesn't have those facts and should probably wait. I'm going to say, I'm not necessarily against having this. I'm not repeating yourself. I'm not against that before. I'm just want to make sure you all know what you're voting on when you approve this for the ballot. Thanks. Thanks for that. Gregor their new hands in the room. Yes, yes, why in the room. All right. Hi Irene renner. Full disclosure I signed the petition over the weekend at magic man. Because I think people should be able to weigh in. The petition I signed mentioned a November voting date that has long passed. I would like the select board to consider warning this for April. That would give magic man the assurance they need that they will hear from people, but would buy us an extra six weeks. As a community to learn about this issue and learn exactly what is required of us. What this vote would mean, etc. The former police chief as well as the current police chief. To my understanding is not for this. We need to know why. Please give us some more time. Just think about this as a community to have conversations to perhaps even have them in person. Pandemic makes all this harder. Thank you. Thanks Irene. Hi, Andy. Thank you for taking my. Comments. I, I agree with Patrick and the others that. It is move point because it is going to pass and either. And I understand what Irene is saying about needing more time. But we've been asking for this for quite some time now. And there has been plenty of time I prefer a regulated market as soon as possible. I understand that there's arguments that that will drive further drive a black market. I don't think so given that there's so much research now. Across the country in terms of models to follow and models not to follow. There's a lot of time to work things out. This is just to decide whether the community wants to do this or not. And I certainly I hear Raj's concerns. I understand there's a lot of health issues, but the reality is the majority of people are users. And so me. I think it's going to be a lot of work. But sooner we start educating the public. On how it impacts your, your health negatively. I think the better off we are. I also support that this will support a local business. As well as jobs and. Drive business toward to more business to Essex, which I think is phenomenal thing. So for those that speak about a lot, I think it's a great opportunity to be able to talk about this. And I think it's a great opportunity for a way to support. That call for people who are looking for an LLT. But anyway, I would appreciate given that this has been months in requests. That is finally being brought up. I would appreciate y'all voting. Yes. Thank you for your time. Thanks. Okay. I don't see any of their hands. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? Okay. Okay. I'll bring this back to the board. Any. Comments from the board based on the inputs that we heard. That's right. I. Apologies. I. I take somewhat exception to the idea that the four of us. Don't know what we're talking about or that the four of us aren't on the same page. I think that there are a number of rules that are in place at the state. You know, has to. Work through. But I. Also believe that to not put this on the ballot would be to ignore. Much of the reality, which is that. Right now. We know there are multiple towns very close to us that have already passed this. I feel it's the duty of the select board to kind of honor the request that we made. Of the original petitioners. And to be honest. Legalization of marijuana. Colorado 2012, you know, it's 10 years ago now. I feel that if people have not. Come do an opinion or done a research on it. I'm not sure that it's going to be approved by this point. I'm not really sure that an additional four months at the April is going to prove to be that much of a difference. I think that the material is out there. I think that the research is out there for people to avail themselves of. And then we allow simply the residents of our town to decide if they want it or not. You know, we're putting this on the ballot and. Or rather, I would propose that we put this on the ballot and put it on the ballot and put it on the ballot. I'm not swayed by the idea or the decision that I don't know. What I'm doing. Thanks, Pat. Do you hear down any other comments? Yeah, I actually went and looked at the legislation because. Back in the fall, we had conversations around zoning and advertising and things of that sort. The legislation does seem to include. You know, some of the things that are included on where advertisement can take place. For example, you can advertise in a place where. Any more than 15% of people seeing that advertisement can reasonably be under 21 years old. So that type of detail is included in the legislation. It's. Yeah. All right. Thanks, Tracy. Don more comment. Can I make a motion that we put it on the ballot? I want to make a comment first. So my comment is related to the wording that was used in the petition around. You know, how to, how to word the warning. It talks about. City ordinances and it. Let's see the way I'm just going to read what I wrote here. The way the petition is worded sounds like it would be warning both the town, the village and the town. I would strongly prefer to modify the language reflect that we're warning for a town vote on the town opting in. We have no jurisdiction to warn over the village. Yes, I understand the vote would apply to the entire town, including the village, but I don't feel that the wording of the question should imply anything other than a vote for the town. I'm just. This is, this is what I had sent to, to Craig in my comments earlier. I'm just kind of reading it off. The wording of the patient also mentioned the city ordinance. I think this portion of the question needs to be made more generic for the town or should be just removed. I'm bringing this up because I'm, I'm, if we. The, the, the motion tonight on, I don't necessarily want to include the exact words. Of the warning so that. And do we, you know, can we, can we ask town staff to come back with appropriate wording that we can. I mean, we, we're going to be warning the, the budget. We're going to do the whole warning for town meeting next week. Right. So I'm just, I'm questioning whether we. Can go ahead and make a vote tonight with the, with the expectation that we'll vote on the final wording next week. Is that. Make sense to anybody. I just wanted to make the motion. We put the question on the ballot. We can word it however we want next week or however. So does that work for you? So work for you, Greg. Yeah. I would say something like direct staff to. Come up with the proper wording to put the question of opt in. Opt out retail cannabis on the ballot. We can, we can bring that back to you. So the, the, the, I think, I think what. Yeah, the question is if. Yeah. Can we vote to warn tonight, but approve the language next week, next week. Or, or is there. I think I've seen your nod. Greg. I would say something like direct staff to. Provide the wording to put this question on the ballot. Okay. If that's what you're going to do. Yeah. So I guess the, the risk there is that we then have this whole discussion again next week. That's where I'm. Or am I overthinking things here? Why would you have the discussion again? It's already. You know, I'm not so sure that's what Greg said. You'll, you'll, so you'll see the town meeting warning next week, which will be, you'll approve the warning for the, for town meeting, which would theoretically include. The wording for the question about retail cannabis. Okay. And give tonight. Okay. So. You're, you're, you're not going to have a discussion on opt in or opt out again. You don't have a discussion on the wording, nothing else. I'm not so sure that's what Greg said. You'll, you'll, so you'll see the town meeting warning next week, but I'm not so sure that's what Greg said. So you want. You're kind of approving it twice. Yeah. I don't think you need to have a whole second conversation next week. I think you've had that tonight. All right. So, so if we, if we, I'm just trying to walk through the, the wording of the motion, if we, if we were the motion to say. I guess I would recommend that we were the word, the motion then you're, you're suggesting that we. As town staff to come back with appropriate wording for the warning. But do we, do we. Make a motion to approve warning opt in opt out. And ask staff to come back with the appropriate wording to put on the ballot. I think something like that. So, so for instance, you've approved the budget. The select words budget. Right. Just there. That's going to be on the ballot. You know, that's going to be on the ballot. I, this is my mind kind of similar here. Okay. You're going to make a motion to put retail cannabis on the ballot subject to proper language. Provided by, as provided by staff. Okay. But having you having just said that we approved, we've already approved the budget and then we're, but, and then you're going to come back with language. Do we need to improve include that. I'm not going to resend our, our vote to warn based on the language that you bring us. I don't know. I'm going, I'm maybe I'm going too far. Yeah. I think it sounds like you're voting tonight to put. Retail cannabis on the ballot. And that you will see the ballot. For final approval next week. The warning, not the ballot. Okay. Don, do you want, you get what you need to. I think I do. Let me try it. Okay. I make the motion that we. Approve putting the opt in opt out. Question. Of cannabis on the town meeting ballot. To be. And to have this. To have the staff director wording of said, of said. What I want to say. Vote. That makes sense. You missed the word retail. Retail. Thank you. I knew there was something missing. So Greg. Okay. Do I have a second? I will second. Thank you, Pat. Okay. Any discussion? Are we okay with the way the motion was worded? All right, we'll go with it. We all know what it means, right? Yeah, I think we, we all clearly know the intent. We're just looking for the proper language. And happy to have staff bring that to us next week. All right. All right. Any further discussion? Okay. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. Motion passes for zero. Thank you everyone. Okay. Where are we now? Okay. Moving on to six H discussion on potential action on tentative agreements about shared services between the town of Essex independent city of Essex junction. We. Haven't yet had a discussion about those proposed agreements. We were originally going to have a discussion about the, the memo that came out about the agreements, but now there are proposed actual proposed agreements. The question I have is, does the select board want to have its first discussion about these and then in executive session, or do you want to talk about them publicly? I prefer to do my executive session. Mr. Chairman. Thanks, Don. Anybody else have an opinion there? I'm thinking executive session is the right place to have the first discussion as well. Is he tracing out in your head? So I least I have consensus. Can't tell what, but there he goes. Yeah, sorry. All right. All right. We'll, we'll circle back to that providing we get there before 11. Yes. Looks like we're going to might make it. Okay. Next. Okay. Okay. So the next item is a six I discussion of possible action about town meeting process and ballots. Greg, do you have something there to tell us? I do. Yeah. So the motion, the select board made, I think it was a couple of weeks ago to put all questions on the ballot. The intent is there. Just to, to do some housekeeping. There is some legislation that was signed by the governor late last year to be conducted by Australian ballot, except for the question about putting all future business on Australian. But so Susan McNamara Hill provided some language based on perks in the area that the select board should vote to move all articles to Australian ballot. If you do not want to hold an in person town meeting. So that would be the recommendation for tonight to make that motion just to capture what you had thought out to do a couple of weeks ago. Right. So we, we voted to mail ballots, but in order to make sure in order to have all questions on that ballot, we have to have this motion past this motion as well. So the question here, and I think our intent that we've discussed is to, is to have not to have an in person. Town meeting. This year's anybody. Disagree with that. I think we did we agree with no in person town meeting. Right, but we're still going to do some kind of budget presentation by zoom, but we do, we do need to do an informational meeting. Right. Yeah, we have, we have to have an informational meeting. And so in order to. The, the, at this point, everything that we're going to put on the ballot has to be on the ballot anyway. We don't have any, like if we had, if we had chosen to put local option tax on, we would have had to do that as a floor vote. Had we not. If we didn't have this authorization to move it to, to, to the ballot. We don't have that question. We don't really have anything, but in order to do things correctly by process, we need this, this motion. So anybody want to make the motion. We got the motion up in front of. Read the language to you again, just so you hear. The motion would go ahead. Select board. Vote to move all articles to Australian ballot. So moved. Second. All right. Thanks, Don. Thank you, Tracy. Any further discussion? Oh, I didn't go to, I didn't go to public comment on this. I see Betsy Dunn's hand up though. Should we go to public comment? My apologies for not doing that Betsy. Go ahead. Yes. Thank you again, Andy. So I think just off the top of my head though, I think that this statement that the governor has made applies to places that do not do an Australian ballot already. We are doing an Australian ballot. And only for our budget to Australian. We went, we went and looked back at the motion and the vote we made. And it was, it only applies to the budget. Yeah. Okay. That needs a change, I guess. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Yep. All right. Any other public comment? Anything in the room, Craig. No. Okay. All right. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. Motion passes for zero. Let's see next item. Six K consider appointment to conservation and trails committee. I think we want to do that in executive session. So. We'll move on to the next thing. And I got to remember a six L Greg, you had an item you wanted to add, right? I did, but we actually skipped an item. Yeah. Oh, I did. J. Oh my goodness. I skipped J. Six J right. Discussing a science, like word out street efforts for town meeting. So in the past we've gone to basketball games and other and hockey games and other events and passed out. Packets of material and encourage folks to come to. Town meeting. Last year because of COVID restrictions, we did not do that. And then we're not going to. I don't think we want to do that again. I think we're going to skip that again this year. Anybody. Check to that. I think it would be hard pressed to get into the schools. To do information. Yeah. So, uh, I guess the antennae or Greg is to consider doing informal. Not on quorum gatherings. Yeah, from our, from our perspective or staff perspective, what you did last year, I think there were maybe 2 or 3. Kind of online informal meetings, not without a quorum. Um, that, that a few of the select board members attended to answer questions, ask. Put information out there. We will, of course, have the informational meeting that Don referenced the night. It'll be on February 28th. So it's typically the town meeting night. So that'll be the townwide event with a quorum. Um, we can put together some Q and a sheets that we've done in the past and have those up on our website. And have them available if the select board chooses to do any of those informal online meetings. So I guess the big question for staff is if you want to do the informal electronic meetings again, and we can work on setting some of those up for you. Or any other ideas that you might have to get the word out about town meeting. All right. Thanks, Greg. And since we're mailing ballots, people will have, I mean, the, the. Many people won't wait until February 28th to come to the informational meeting to get their information. So this is an opportunity to. To answer questions for earlier voters as well. So anybody have any comments, anybody. Supportive not supportive. Planning on putting information sheets with the ballot. I'm sorry, I missed that Don. What about putting the information sheets that you would normally hand out and with the ballots. I'd have to check with Susan the clerk. I believe you're not supposed to bring informational. The voting booth or, and I don't want to. No, not to bring in the book when you mail the ballot, Greg. Yeah, but it would be. Would it be, my question would be, would it be considered similar to providing information at a voting booth and. Don't, don't want to run into any trouble about potentially playing people which way they vote by putting that in with the ballot. But I'll be happy to ask Susan about that and see. If that's valid or not. Okay. Any other comments, questions. Anybody willing to do a informal session. Up to your schedule, you can, you know, I would imagine we would work with Tammy to get something set up and she would help us advertise it and. Would we plan on having staff support? It would be just select board members answering questions. Greg, is that the. Last year. Basically just select board members answering questions. It's kind of the model that was the, it was the select board. Going to events back when, when that was happening before COVID. So staff would certainly help. Schedule the event and set it up and provide the link, but leave it to the select board members to do the actual. Posting. As somebody did two of them last time. I had one person come to the first one and two people come to the second one. So. I'm not sure how effective that is to tell the truth. That's good feedback. I'm happy to make myself available for as many as possible. Yeah, I'm happy to do it again, but I'm just saying that's what happened last year. I think it's just better to, better to offer it than that. Yeah, I can. Maybe we should do just one or two of them and have two of us show up. For those making more limited if I seem to recall the same thing that Don experienced. I had like three people in the meeting that. Elaine and I presented. So it was. I mean, I, I expect it's going to be sparse attendance regardless, but if we can. Get to meetings and then I feel like we've done our due diligence for people to come if they need to ask questions. All right. So Greg sounds like the board is in general supportive of it. Nobody's willing to participate. So if we can. Get some guidance with regard to, I guess, how we, how we, how we arrange the scheduling and I guess we need to put, you need to put together the materials and all that as well. And I assume we're, we're talking. Second half of February kind of timeframe. There is a school vacation week in there too. Try to get some before that. What do we know on ballots or get mailed. I do not know off the top of my head. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. The clerk's office. Yep. Okay. So that would be helpful. I guess to understand. Two weeks before the vote. I think it's. 14 days before the vote. I believe. Okay. All right. So Greg, do you need anything more from us? Okay. Jordan here from channel 17 is. He said it's the ninth is what he thinks. We've told him. To mail the ballots. Okay. Okay. So someone, I think once the ballots are out, then maybe we can have the start having them. I don't, I. I didn't or wasn't able to participate in them last year. Did we have a presentation we went through or is it. Generally just a question and answer thing. Just questions and answers. Okay. Okay. I thought that we had done like a. We had done like a brief budget. Presentation, like only like 10 minutes fairly quickly. Just to set a table. But, you know, I realized that we may all have gone into it with slightly different. So, so Greg, you and I are talking to. Town meeting TV. The last. The end of the end of the month there, right? So we need to have a presentation together for that anyway. You should have something. Yeah. Right. Or do we, I don't know. Note that to touch base with you on a budget presentation. Yeah. So I guess you and I need to work on that or something. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Okay. So there will be. Hopefully some materials available to be used in February. If, if folks want to use them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll need to learn the ukulele. Okay. All right. Yeah, we need Greg. Yes, I do. Thank you. All right. All right. And then the, I had already jumped to K, which is we're going to go into executive session of stocks, talk about appointments. And then L. Greg was another. Executive session to talk about contracts. Yes. Right. Okay. And then. I wanted to pull out the December 20th. Minutes. It's a very simple fix, but on line one 76. I wanted to remove the word daily. The question being answered there was how many emails did you get on a certain topic? And it said five or six daily, but it was five or six total. So just take out the daily. It makes a big difference. So it was mainly changed there and then. Tracy, you wanted to pull out January 3rd minutes. Yeah, I'm trying to get to the line item. Sorry, there's just been a whole lot of, I know I have it in email. But anyway, in January 3rd, I'll find it. Okay. So. At the topic of the local option tax. I thought it was lying to 74. Anyhow, Andrew Brown had mentioned that we could sort of set guidelines for local option tax on utility. And we later found out that that was not true, that that is not possible. And so we, we'll just wait for the next two minutes because that is something that was said. But I just wanted to, to point out. For these minutes, but that's actually not something that we can do. Thought it was lying to 74. That's what I had in my notes, but I'm not seeing. Oh yeah, to 74 to 276. I apologize. So there's no changes. I just wanted the opportunity to make that comment. Any other changes to the minutes from anybody. And someone make a motion to approve both of them. As a minute or December 20th has amended and January 3rd has written. I'll make the motion to approve. December 20th, 2021 minutes as amended. And the January 3rd. Minutes as written. Second. Thanks, Pat. Any further discussion? Those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Okay. Minutes are approved. I think that closes all of the business items for now. Consent agenda. I move to approve the consent agenda. Second. Thank you, Tracy. Thank you. Any further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. Motion passes for zero. On to the reading file. Any board member comments? I have one. Touches a little bit on. The, um, winter operations memo, but wanted to thank all of our staff over the last couple of days, the snowstorm and the wind chill. And I saw that they had moved to yellow status with all of the. COVID sickness that's going around. So just wanted to. Make sure that our staff knows how much we appreciate them being out on the roads at all hours, clearing with the plows. And I think it's, it's kind of a big job to do. And not as many people as usual to do it. So thank you. All of our public works, people. John, you're talking to the cat. You're talking to us. The only thing I hate about zoom. Okay. Anything else? So let's see then. We have multiple executive sessions. I guess the first one. Well, there's, there's two pieces to appointing to, there's two. Discussions about appointments. But I guess we can talk about both of those with one set of motions, right? So does anybody have. Emotions in front of them. For appointments. I do. I motion the select board to enter into executive session to discuss the proposed public official appointments. And according with one VSA section three 13. A three. And to include the. I guess just deputy manager. Thanks, Pat. Thank you, Don. So this is just a single motion. There's no. One out of it. Just want to make sure. There's no. Finding. For this one there. There's nothing else written. Just that. All right. Any, any other discussion. Okay. I was in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. We're going to take your session for that. Then we have, what else do we have? One about contracts. I have that one up if you want me to. Yep. Go ahead. I move that the select board make a specific finding that general public knowledge of contracts would place the town at a substantial disadvantage. Thanks, Tracy. Do have a second. Second. Thanks, Pat. Any further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. Motion passes. Get the other motion. Yep. I moved that the select board enter into executive session to discuss contracts pursuant to one BSA. Section three 13. A one. A to include the deputy manager. Thank you, Tracy. Second. Thank you, Don. Any further discussion. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. Motion passes for zero. So is that all of them? Because we're, we've got two different kinds of contracts. And we also set Greg, do we get them all? Are we doing two committee appointments now? Potentially. The motion to, to discuss the appointment to public officials will cover both of those items in the contract. We'll cover both of the contract items. Okay. All right. So then I guess the question is, are we likely going to need to do that? We may, right? Yeah. Okay. All right. So we may come back. Depending on the outcome. All right. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. So, all right. Thank you to all those who attended. If you want to stick around, we will, we may come back to make motions. To either do appointments or do address some contract question. So you're feel free to, I guess, hang out in this meeting. We are going to leave and go to a separate meeting for executive session and. Come back before we adjourn. I'm going to go up to my office. So I'll give me two or three minutes. And I will see you on different locations. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to take a short break myself. So yep. See you in a few minutes. Thanks, everyone. For the time being. I'll see you. We'll see you on different locations. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to take a short break myself. So yep. See you in a few minutes.