 Today and I am sure all of you have some R and D experience you know I do not have to tell you what is R and D research and development and the course is teaching engineering effectively. So, I thought before I could go to or slides maybe I will debate a bit why R and D experience is useful to teach engineering courses effectively. Now, engineering is the basis of technology and as you know technology is basically enabler it enables you to develop products, solutions, services, create new things, but the basis is engineering where you lay the basis through engineering education, but it is linked to technology and technology because of his sort of linked to business it changes very rapidly. So, there are lot of dynamics so, technology changes very rapidly and I am if I give an example it is probably a you know it is a old example, but it tells the point I am trying to make very clearly long back we had vacuum tubes we have now we have transistors now we have you know we have gone to VLSI so, technology is changed so, we do not teach vacuum tube anymore likewise we had mechanical watch that has gone to digital watch there is very little market for mechanical watch. So, mechanical watch knowledge has gone into somewhere else it is no longer useful these are called paradigm shift. Paradigm is a set a cluster of rules and techniques that sort of determine the boundary within which you can solve problems do new things create products. So, rules and governing techniques are there now when the paradigm shifts from one state to another state all the rules and techniques you have learned now has practically 0 value it is of no use you have to learn new rules new techniques to do the same thing in a better and more effective way. So, as the paradigm shift occurrence becomes more frequent it is our duty as a teacher to bring in and see this paradigm change and bring into the content of the course and teach it more effectively. So, that and that and this paradigm change occurs through R and D work R and D work intense R and D work in large industries intense R and D work in research intensive universities and that brings in the paradigm change. So, we got to know this we may not be expert or we may not be doing research, but our we should have some kind of awareness in this to make the course more relevant to the students. So, that is that thought one one reason why R and D experience is is useful and second is you might have you might be feeling like I do a lot of our leaders and you know so called heavyweights are talking about innovations you know in India I stands for innovations innovations. And the overall picture is that we are trying to bring in innovations in everything we do I think that is that is that is the item and in in engineering educations is a place where innovation naturally fits in because you innovate things and create products, create new services and create solutions for the benefit of the society. So, to bring in innovation into engineering curriculum ok now one can say ok now you teach a course innovation first course and innovation second course on innovation. I personally thinks it is it is not a very effective of doing it we need to bring in innovation maybe a bit of it and integrate to the course we are teaching we may be teaching a course on fluid mechanics, but bring in innovations there you know in in bring in innovation a bit in in in the components of learning in this this thing. So, to do that it is good to have in parallel some R and D activities going ok. So, I thought I should sorry put forward my view why R and D experience is useful in teaching engineering effectively ok. Now, before you go to the first slide I I I am going to continue on before you go to the first slide I like to sort of encourage you to interact you know during the session you know let us let us bring in cooperative learning and teaching and you contribute from your experience to the learning of others. So, I would like to encourage that so you know and as you say you have to be in dialogue not monologue. So, we can do that and please feel free and as you you know bring in your as you ask a question or bring in your comments suggestions or input you can just say sentence you know telling your name and affiliation. So, that you know I have a chance to come to know you ok. All right continue on that why R and D of course, I have given a fancy title R and D journey, but essentially you are going to talk about mundane things how to write R and D proposals for research grants from for research contract from industry and things like that. Continuing on this why R and D in an academic institutions the first two points I have probably spoken in a different way ok just just a just a minute back that you know you need to bring in innovation or creative learning into the classroom and that that needs kind of research experience and then of course, research always advances knowledge or applies knowledge and all these you do for the benefits of the society give back to the society ok. So, that is that first two things share things with the society that also you can do in making a very sort of sustained R and D journey in an academic institutions that is fine, but then what are from the personal fronts? Personal fronts are important because we are all you know human being we are not all sadhus we are all human being and to be enthusiastically participating in things we we have to look at the personal fronts. If you see the last three bullets kind of address that questions like your visibility as a faculty member I am not talking about international visibility, but you know visibility as a faculty member in nation is related to your R and D output in general and visibility it is a difficult to define term, but visibility is almost like you know just to put in a very lighted light manner it is all it is like stock price you know if your visibility is high means you know you stock price is high you are wanted and people want to talk to you interact with you and things like that and that is that is kind of you know related to your R and D output or definitely related how would you are a teacher because your students are the you know they are going to build a network and make you visible also. So, if they have light your you know the you know electrifying effective bring in your classroom teaching in inspiring them they would remember that they would do that thing. So, teaching is probably number one and then comes your R and D output which is going to increase your visibility in a scenario. Then if you have really done some very practical innovations in developing a product or generating a solution then industry would be interested in it because you are talking about technical things industry would be interested in it and with the current economic prosperity and the industry is filling very buoyant you know you can build partnership with industry to generate wealth once you generate wealth you are going to share the wealth you generate wealth. So, you become rich put it simply. So, there is a chance also becoming rich or share the generated wealth by doing good R and D technical R and D and finally, there are some missionary people you know as a as a child you have observed something you know you have observed a sick person having let us say cancer you it becomes your mission to cure that you know develop a cure for it. So, then you have a significant problem in your mind which has been registered just by observing and you want to do that and you can do that in an academic institutions where you have lot of freedom for doing R and D as well as you have facilities and resources for doing good R and D where I may not you know have said this because I am sure that most of you have some kind of you know feeling that R and D is important, but I thought you know in the beginning let me set a background that why you should take up this journey in an academic institution. This is again something you know it is very very basic you have fundamental or basic research and applied research, but if you talk about engineering a very simple definition of engineering is application of science to meet the needs of the society let us say it is a very simple crude definition. So, it is application application comes part. So, when you talk about R and D in engineering. So, it it it has to be applied kind of research and that is true, but even that in applied research you have a basic component. Basic component component essentially means developing new tools, new techniques, new data, new information, new knowledge. So, that you can do the same thing in a better way. So, those are engineering science development. And so, that is what I put basic could be advancing knowledge creation of knowledge base you know those are the basic research. And from a personal experience and you know sort of looking at my other colleagues my suggestion would be particularly to my younger colleagues that you begin with basic research focus more on basic research initially the beginning of your R and D career. Because that way you know your enthusiastic you will you will you will equip yourself with more knowledge more enabling tools and techniques. And then if you if you go through that journey for let us say 10, 15 years then you can embark on more on applied that is whatever techniques and tools you have equipped yourself you implement that in solving some significant problems. So, it is not that you have to stop applied and do basic in the beginning or stop basic and do applied. It is shifting the focus maybe can start more focus you put more focus on the basic and while in parallel you do applied and that you can do that is that just a you know from my personal experience it works that way. And of course, applied is such a direct application it may not be, but it is not trivial applications you you solved lot of difficult issues as you implement. I mean you know it is easy to say easy to generate ideas, but implementing ideas is entirely a different thing and in application you basically implement and you know your ideas remain empty if you do not implement and bring in tangible benefits out of your ideas. So, implementation details are not trivial at all I mean they are as tough as many difficult research. So, those who do applied research do not feel yourself that you know you are not doing basic research and you are doing very sort of mundane research it is not application research are quite difficult and that is one thing in fact we should do you know focus and bring in innovation there. So, these goes hand in hand particularly in engineering research that is both basic and applied and again there is you know if you you have heard of some say I do fundamental research, data institute of fundamental studies and there are fundamental. That is a relative term like in engineering a fundamental research would be the person who is not using empirical model you know model based on some basic rules basic governing equation and things like that, but if you tell that to a physics friend you will think you are being applied there because your physics friend is doing molecular dynamics with everything consists of molecules and atoms you know whether it is a watery drink or airy breath they are all molecules they are not continuous substance. So, they they are missing you know you are not I am doing the fundamental and then if it talks to someone in the same department who does string theory they will say no you are not doing fundamental I am looking at small particles I am doing more fundamental you are looking involved. So, it is a relative term, but so do not worry about that along as your research is useful the end result is useful you should embark on that basic or applied. This is something I I think everyone should try to do at some point of time it may be it would be difficult to come initially when you are starting, but have a big picture I mean this almost goes with what my colleague Professor Amannas you know you you have something you know you are targeting what you do. Similarly, you have a big picture in mind it is not that you want to get more data a new information and publish and get your get five more publications do not really have those as your goal even though you cannot escape that because those are the short term gain which will give you enough momentum to go on, but there should be always a long term goal a big picture. So, you know let us say if you are talking about a civil engineering problem you want to solve particularly in the city of Mumbai where you have very strong monsoons for five six months you want to develop let us say building materials that withstand the monsoon there is no leak water repellent super hydrophobic self-cleaning and things like that you know some something ahead of you and which is quite difficult to achieve because that keeps you sort of giving you the that drives you to sort of put more effort go extra miles and reach that. So, that is that is one thing is but it does not come easily in the beginning, but as you work on it it you will find that you yourself will generate such kind of scene for you that is have a big picture and you have to choose research problems and it can come if you think hard but the better way to talk to people observe things and interact with people interact with industry people and all these will you know will help you to finally, identify some problems you work you know you work with your students and keeping that big picture in mind. So, that is the kind of a more or less most those who are successful in you know research one is the focus and second is they have a big picture ahead of them. So, and all these will come through interactions and through thinking and reading. So, all these you know that the blend of all this thing there is no easy solution to this you have to you have to interact with people you have to interact with industry you have to you have to read you have to think all these one it is do to have some problems to work on. Now, why do you do that of course, we have you know we have sort of talked about that a good deal, but there should be some visible output for any effort you put in isn't it? There should be visible output that should be recognized by others. And R and D outputs particularly you know if it is R measured in terms of there are two kinds of output one can say one is very well defined this called productivity indicator. Those are numbers like you know like number of publications, number of patents, number of books, routine and you know those kind of them those are simply productivity that you know you have been active in research. Now, all these quality which is difficult to define. So, quality indicator which is difficult to define, but that is most important than the productivity indicator in the long run. So, you have to keep that in mind and quality indicators I need not read all these things, but in my I mean the ultimate high quality R and D work in engineering I believe should find its way into the classroom textbooks may be published after the work is done or it is being utilized in industry to develop a technology that is that is the ultimate test in my opinion. And otherwise that is you know otherwise that is clearly it does not happen in many cases because it is not that the quality, but it certainly the it is sort of guaranteed best quality work you can say if it is go goes into textbook because you know you want students to learn it. So, it is a piece of research so generic so valuable that you want to put into the textbook or it is so useful full of commercial potential that industry takes it in. But normally it does not happen may be one or two in one's career. Then what you depend on is good quality publication or good quality patents may not be utilized in industry, but industry would like to probably by the entire portfolio of patents you have done you might have done five six portfolio in a particular area five six patents in a particular area and put together they are valuable. So, industry would like to simply buy that out they may implement they may not implement depends on their business thinking we have no control on that, but they want to buy out. So, those are in my opinion quality R and D output and you have to keep that in mind you have to be careful that you do not just go on producing papers go on the you know just counting numbers and not looking at the quality ok. So, this we are going to get into proposals and things like that, but before that if you have any sort of comments to make or your experience to share with other participants you can do that on your R and D experience. Having I mean let me tell you from the at the very beginning that R and D in engineering is expensive and that is one of the reason where you have R and D in good amount in places like IIT, IAC, Bangalore and not in all engineering colleges because it is simply expensive and you need good some of financial resources to have R and D activities because you need research facilities in terms of sophisticated equipment, high power computing, then good support for consumables and you know it is expensive. Now, obviously you cannot it is a chicken and egg story unless you have done some work and establish yourself you cannot attract grant ok. And unless you get a grant to begin with how do you establish yourself ok, there are large number of government organization which give research grant starting from few lakhs of rupees to few crores of rupees ok. Individual research grants are you know few lakhs or few tens of lakhs of rupees all India counts for technical education, AICT and then there is a list of government organizations. Now, how do you approach them? Very simple with today's network it is not difficult at all. Now, all these government organizations have excellent website very informative website. In fact, most of the forms you are going to fill up to apply you can download from the site and all the instructions and informations are there. So, all you have to do is the visit to the site and download the form you would like to fill up and get your information ok. And most of these organization have variety of schemes so that they can cater to a larger section of researcher ok. Some researchers are starting out so you may need some seed grant, some initiation grant, young engineers grant you know things like that. So, you may you may this is your beginning maybe you can go to that and that way you can break that chicken and egg thing that you just pick up the scheme where they are trying to solve that problem you know giving you just a initiation grant. Or you are already an established researcher and you want to get into the next level by upgrading your research facilities and other things then you need a huge grant. So, there are some thrust area scheme and other scheme which keeps grants to the tune of quotes ok. So, you can get into that. So, you have to choose the right scheme and then make an application. So, this is of course just a procedure, but there are a lot details to it, but these are all available in the website one can go to the website and get all those things. For industry you may not have things in the website it is not simple at all. And as you know industry is thinking and government thinkings are somewhat different. Government thinking is more to give grants so that promotion occurs you know promote science and technology promote innovation, promote men power they are all promotion purpose. For industry links to the business ok also promotion in a different way, but is more into the business. And, but the industries which are doing very well they do not look at you to solve the day to day needs because they have the resources in their organization in house resources to do that kind of thing. They want to sort of you know partner with you to borrow your brand to do things for them for future ok. So, that is the kind of you know they think they have in mind when they look at academics, academic professor in industry. So, make your job or utilize the intellectual capital available among the faculty in a particular institutions to build partnership and bring in their business interest and develop let us say capability the companies capability for the future ok. So, you have to keep in mind industry is you know industries is not donating money or giving you grant even though it will come in the grant form. It may be a research grant, but they are not giving you grant as government organization would give they are looking for something. So, those for that you have to interact you have talked to the industry you know you can focus on two three industry in your area ok now suppose you know precision manufacturing the gentleman. So, he has to look at few industries which are fabricating that kind of products and then you have to network and find out what kind of things they are thinking and then based on your own R and D reading and thinking you know what is how the technology is going to take set in 10 years or 15 years down the road. And then you have to talk to them and say you know we want to build partnership and help you develop your capability of developing this tomorrow's technology ok. So, then they will come and give you grants and they and second attraction they have which my friend mentioned that they get subsidy they get tax benefits ok. So, that they will do that, but industry getting a grant from industry little more difficult then getting a grant from government organization, but I would I would strongly encourage you to get grants from industry because it you have to develop that skill as well and it it is more close towards sort of practical implementation then doing something very very sort of basic and academic. So, you you may have two proposals from let us say government organization and one from industry. So, knowing the source whether it is government organization or from industry now you have to prepare to write proposals ok. Now, it needs good amount of homework basically and to focus that homework or as you said the design the homework you want to put in to write proposal you have to think about the deliverables in that proposal in a way. Now, what do you want to achieve ok. Now, research is uncertain you know you do not know what would be the outcome that is fine, but still you have to sort of you know think what are what are the possible outcomes ok or what are more probable outcomes and how is that enough to write a proposal is that enough to attract grant ok. So, you have to and the simple deliverables would be like you know thinking about publication patents or the research infrastructure you are going to build out of this grant or the manpower you want to develop you know for example, if you say I am going to you know to a government organization if you say I am going to have three projects staff who are going to do their masters with me that is a manpower development in a particular area. So, that is that is a good output. So, you see what are possible you know you cannot the deliverables or should be you know it is you cannot really be very ambitious, but it is good to be ambitious you cannot at the same time do not be very ambitious because it would be difficult to convince the sponsoring agencies. So, these you keep in mind you know at the at the beginning that these are are my possible deliverables. So, when I do my homework to write a proposal these are the possible deliverables I have in my mind and these of course, you know you since you are going to write the entire project. So, whenever a sponsoring agency looks at the proposal the sponsoring agency will look at you your competence your your track record and your those things and naturally it you know the research proposal would be in the area where you have strong interest to carry out R and D and you have some research strength research strength in terms of your knowledge expertise and the facilities available and your research team. So, these are these are your research resources and also you know this is this is quite common, but you you do not reinvent wheels you know you you do not do things that has been already done and to ensure that you do not do that you do a literature search you know you do a literature and these days doing literature search is quite easy because of the e databases I I do not think all colleges have it do your college have e database yes that is very good IIT of course has it like for example Scopus Web of Science yeah. So, you know if you if you focus on a particular topic then you can go to these databases and in a matter of hours you can get the search done and you you know what has been done and what is available in literature and then you see you know your objectives in writing the proposal your deliverables how they fit in what is not there in the literature basically what they say existing gaps in knowledge all these things. So, this is basically the homework and this takes lot of time and of course getting the literature search done these days are very easy is matter of hours, but going through the reading the key papers making you know listing the advancements identifying the gaps and constructively creating the papers so that you can take it to a next high level all these take time, but you know once you focus in writing a proposal these are all this can be done. Then you have to see what you need and the you know you need a number of instruments you need a number of facilities ok and then this is very important I think this is the last one we do not put so much emphasis even you know places like IIT and ISC Bangalore the safety in carrying out the work then the ethics of carrying out that work and that is also coming into picture now particularly in some biological research and safety is very important see right now it probably does not matter as much because our research activities are not at a very high level you know it is not that intense, but if you have intense research activities and if you are not following the safety precautions then accidents would occur and once you have one or two accidents I think IIT Bombay we had couple of accidents in the last two three years and now we are working on putting in the safety things in the lab and this is very important if you if you find the work you know the experimental work you are going to do in your project or in general onset if you do not have the safety where then please do not do it I think that is definitely this thing and many cases you will find you there are knowledge available in the form of books and manuals so what are the safety precautions you take if you carry out a particular kind of experiment and likewise if you are into the biological work then there is a bioethics committee IIT Bombay has one not many places have they go through whether it is a sometimes it is just a formality because nobody gets into unethical work anyway but that is also something you got to check before you decide on the particular project so these are the things are what you say your homework one you know the homework one does before actually sitting in front of computer and start writing you have the literature search done you have you have some idea about what are the possible deliverables and you have some idea what are the facilities that are existing in your institute and the facilities you need so that that gets into the proposal and then some idea about the safety and other things that you are going to need so now you have whatever you need need to write a good proposal ok so and also based on that you have gone through the list of sponsoring agencies and you have made up your mind that you know I am going to give it to this agency for example if it is entirely let us say aerospace related you want to go for a aerospace agency that is very sort of common things so then you have to follow their format because each sponsoring agency has different format however there are some common things ok so that we will go through very quickly and first thing is of course objective of the proposal or the problem definitions now this is one can write down you know I want to do this I want to do this I want to do that but ok now those are fine those you want to do that way but then the question will be asked that why you want to do this ok and sometimes if you write in a listing manner it turns out that you confuse the clarity is lost somewhere so if you have to make sure so what is what is the problem that you are going to solve what is the problem you are going to solve and and define it very clearly so problem clear problem definition is very important in your proposal and writing the objective of the proposal what you want to study in a clear manner is also very important ok these are usually short sections half a page each but it should be clear case and focused because that sort of base the impression of the sponsoring agency or the reviewer of your proposal about the project proposal ok so that should be clearly written and then of course literature search you have done there is always a sectional literature search because they want to make sure that you are not in reinventing the wheel you are doing something which is significant so that is supported through your literature search and then comes a very important sections that is a method of approach essentially how we are going to solve the problem what are the if if you want to do a take a computational approach ok now do you have the right algorithm do you have the right software code you need do you have the technique ok or if you want to carry out the experiments ok now what is the kind of experience you have in doing this kind of experiments and do you have the instruments or you are proposing to acquire the instrument through this research grant ok now this this this has to be also this is very important because this sort of convinces the reviewer that you know you have a good chance of successfully complete the project because you have some clarity how we are going to go again you know it may not be all clear because you do not know what would come it is a R and D proposal after all but you have initial plan initial design how you want to approach in solving the problem ok that so here basically sometimes it is a good idea to give details of your experimental plan and also what kind of data you want to collect and how you are going to interpret the data to ok to develop the knowledge or generate the knowledge you want to generate or how that will help you to solve the problem if you are focused your entire proposal in solving a problem and this this is where I use a bulk of the proposal in fact this usually runs into four five pages ok whereas the problem definition and objectives may be put together one page this could be five six pages and this this also brings in your competency in dealing you know somewhere reflects that in in sort of handling that particular project and then manpower manpower is very important ok now one other thing is particularly these colleges where you know which where you want to nuclear these activities you can think in terms of giving good fellowship amount ok now you have to find a way innovative way to do that and of course you don't give money from from institute kitty or from your own pocket it also come from the project so you have to you have to budget your mentor in such a way that you have this kind of ability you have built in this kind of you know scheme or facility to give higher fellowship to the students to give fellowship to the undergraduate students if they are working so we have been talking about research grants so these are the grants given by government agents in the industry and these are like donations to do research ok so they are not really looking for deliverables however government you know organizations like MHRDA, ICT particularly those who are into manpower and education they want to see your you are really taking projects start training them and sending them to you know industry so that menpower training is in very important deliverables all these projects so you have to keep that in mind and then of course basic research this I think lately it wasn't there ten fifteen years back lately almost even the even for the research grant you have to sign an agreement this is not contract research this is not consultancy but you are just taking a research grant even for that you have to sign an agreement industry has agreements lot of government like you know your department of science and technology department of biotechnology defense DRDO all of them have their own agreements agreements you know like basically the scope of work activities to be performed the financial terms and and then you know some some on due diligence then confidentiality you know like non-disclosure and stuff like that and one important component is the ownership of IP IP is intellectual property you are familiar with that yeah IP is a generic name where patent copyright trademark design registration all these come in let's come to the other kind of research this is also R&D but it's it's a slightly different kind it's it's known as contract research everywhere else or in America particularly in India we call it industrial consultancy projects okay see consultancy is a big thing in IIT Bombay also because we are located in Bombay and Bombay is full of industries very a variety of industries chemical and and I spent some time in the DNR and his office and I can tell you it you know it's very intense like we IIT Bombay does close to 1,000 consultancy project every year so we have 400 faculties almost 2 to 3 projects every faculty on an average but most of the projects have done by about 15 to 20 percent of faculty members you know they are really known as the expert consultant one big name is of course Parthak the co-organizer of this course and close to about 15 crores total consultancy costing for the year so it's a big thing in IIT Bombay and it really builds an industry partnership isn't it and you find that if you are known as a good consultant you can also get a grant from the same industry or you can get a better consultancy project so it's it's it's a good year building partnership with industry you start with consultancy project and go to the higher level so I am happy that some of you have already started doing consultancy projects as you know these are short-term projects because time is money for industry they are very short-term it could be few days to few weeks or maximum few months it's never more than a year it is I have seen any consultancy project which is more than a year really and the belly variables are clearly identified and clearly defined this particular software package of this energy analysis or whatever it's clearly defined and you have to do that and deliver in time that is consultancy project and most consultancy projects depending on the industry almost all these days come with agreements ok now first agreement to sign is the non-disclosure agreement that you are not going to disclose whatever you have done in this consultancy project for a particular company to other companies which is fair ok so that is that is there and then but the real bone of contention here is the ownership of IP now while working on it you generate something which has commercial potential ok now and you can patent it right it it's a technology it may be a small increment but it's a technology and it has huge commercial potential now industry has given a project worth of 1 lakh but you have developed this thing which may which has a commercial potential of so it's a few hundreds of crores now industry would obviously like to own it this thing this is because you have done this in you know while doing this consultancy project so they always come out to it that whatever IP generated during this consultancy work would be owned by the industry alone but we don't agree to that our line of argument is that whatever innovations or inventions you make while working on this consultancy project ok it has arrows from the experience you have generated in doing R and D for 10 15 years working in other projects working with your students it really hasn't generated because you are you know what you happen to work in this particular project but the knowledge base your thinking and intellectual capital you have used have been generated over the years so since you know you have created some wealth you know through this IP you would like to share it instead of share it and that can be done by the joint ownership so IIT Bombay insist that whenever our faculty member finds agreement with industry on a consultancy project we say joint ownership in fact it was getting difficult so what we have done very recently we have worked out that 10 I think it was 10 point it could be said now 10 point standard agreements ok about all these aspects you know non disclosure terms of payment arbitration IP ownership all these points you have taken care ok and these we call it standard agreements so if industry would like to give us consultancy project this is the agreement our consultant signs with the industry so you are automatically taken ok so whenever you send a letter of we call it job letter to our client industry on the back of the letter we have this standard agreement so this is so that we solve the problem you know we have thousand consultancy project if you want to negotiate thousand agreement you would not have time ok so the most industries agree but there are industries who do not agree to the standard agreement they said no we cannot give this project this project is very important to us we cannot agree to the standard agreement we do not agree to the joint IP ownership then what you do take it as a special case we have our faculty experts would like to take up that project the industry experts ok now that team and we negotiate ok now we say ok now we will give you the joint ownership that you certainly have to you know share the you know the wealth which is going to be generated in future with us either you can do in terms of the upfront payment which could be like maybe two times or three times of the project depending on this thing there is you know there is no clear guideline on this ok now if the project is for 5 lakhs ok you get 15 lakhs upfront if a patent comes you own the patent ok and then that money is shared by IIT Bombay and the faculty member in a particular way because IIT Bombay has a intellectual property policy like if a patent comes ok patent comes up then we have a policy we is going to share the patent the patent is going to be owned by the institute IIT Bombay however the faculty member and students are the author of the patent and when the patent generates some money ok it will be shared in a particular way so that policy is already in place ok. So, you can get into separate agreement but you have to be careful and take help you know if you have an IP cell or IP cell we have I think each IIT has IP cell now you can also consult them and make sure you have understand everything before signing an agreement ok particularly for contract research or consultancy of course most of you know it there are many kinds of deliverables in a consultancy project the easier one is the testings you know you happen to have an instrument ok which does certain kind of specialized testing ok it could be the you know insulation strength it could be viscosity of a liquid or you know corrosion you know testing or whatever or structural you know some structural strength testing etcetera. So, you have built up this facility through grants and industries need this kind of testing but they do not need in on a routine basis. So, they want to acquire the in house facility for this but they may need maybe few times a year and if you already have the facilities and good track record of doing sound work on this they will come to you ok and these they come to know through your presentation in seminar conferences through your network you know your students etcetera you do not have to specially advertise it you do not have to really be a template and send to all industry it just comes out you do not have to worry about that. So, it is very easy and this IIT does good amount of this ok that this but this is most cases you really do not need research expertise to do this kind of consulting actually it is more facility best. Then there are other types which are both facility and expertise best that means you are directly applying your knowledge and expertise to do the consultancy project. So, they are your sort of reputation as a expert in a particular area will be the main driving force for the industry to come for that consultancy project. So, you have to establish your credibility you know most of the problems we get the consultancy projects we get at IIT Bombay are problem solving type. You know the industry gets a same term which is very critical to them. Let us say in chemical industry all have shown they find that the yield of a reactor chemical reactor has gone down tremendously that means their property will go down their business will go down I mean this is something which is very critical to them. So, what is the one thing is it is simply it has gone down now how to solve the problem. So, it is a problem solving. So, they have to come to the reactor expert in the that kind of reactor ok. And then they say we have this this is the major symptom we have it is very critical we want to get it done in three four days and could you help us. So, we get lots of this kind of problem solving type you know where they come out it is just one symptom and they want to solve the problem ok or you know in a manufacturing plant if you are producing too many defective goods you know the defective percentage you know in 6 sigma and all it is very very low. But if you start getting into percentage obviously, you are going to make loss. Now, what do you do? They will have some idea in fact sometimes you can talk to them and get some ideas, but they do not have the confidence to solve it and they may not have time also because it in this kind of thinking. So, they will come to a faculty expert who can solve this problem in two days three days or a week. So, we get lot of this kind of problems and some of our faculty experts do it you know and or you have developed a package to do energy or it or optimization of certain kind of processes you have that package you know this is your own sort of expertise. So, they can use that and and you do that as a consultancy project. So, those kind of things are quite quite common in our consultancy scene. Then process and product product development and this is again expertise based and this slightly more involved in problem solving and these are usually long term you know for example, a plant wants to go from let us say 50 percent of utilization currently to 90 percent of utilization because something is happening there are bottlenecks you have to be bottlenecked you know reengineer and things like that and take it to 90 percent. So, you have to carry out modeling simulations all kinds of diagnostic kind of things and you can do that or they want to they you know they have got a customer software they want a product which is slightly different than the product they are using. Then you have to you know design that new product. So, you get lot of consultancy on this in a different way we have one called IDC industrial design center you know it is kind of unique. Of course they get lot of consultancy to design the shop and other things about the product both from functional viewpoint as well as from aesthetic viewpoint because both has value you can have some functional and if one product is more aesthetically more appealing you can put 10 rupees extra there and people would pay. So, that is there our IDC gets lot of you know even designing a sack to store cement you know that and things like you know if you have seen that jet type petrol pump you know in the petrol station that is our design IDC design and that looks neat and it is functionally also you know more efficacious. So, those kind of things come project we do and then the last one is expert opinion this in my opinion this is the highest level of consultancy one can do. Of course you have to on the reputation or recognition as an expert. One example I can give in the IID Bombay perfect partner is an expert on software. Now if a bank wants to acquire a particular solution software solution out of a you know from a list of many they will come to person like first partner this is the expert opinion or in to make a particular chemical product there are three four technologies you know action may have one you know mobile may have one or you know different chemical companies have different technologies and they are all competing how do you make a decision you go to an expert who not only can see through the technology they are sorry advantages and disadvantages also able to see the future and see which technology provides you scope to improve and get into the next generation of technology that is you know in future. So, this kind of ability skill one has to earn one has to develop you know. So, when you get you know some of our faculty members are recognized experts in industries and sometimes their chapter is retainer you know you have retain as a residential kind of professional consultant or a residential consultant where you go one day a week for a year and they consult you on various issues. So, a lot of these experts are retained by two three companies as expert retainers ok. Keeping time you know you all know that this is very important that you have to deliver in time if you want to have a thriving consultancy going you cannot but do this. I think you all probably know those you have done you have to do bit of costing for your consultancy project ok. Now, what are the important cost components here of course, consultancy fee the consultancy fee is your charge you know you put a put a you know charge for the time you put in or charge for the expertise you give your intellectual input you give to solve the problem or to do the consultancy project you put a charge for that that is consultancy fee then main power cost is if you want to recruit some project staff or if you want to outsource then you put that cost then operational cost in these of course are done in IIT Bombay kind of costing the format we have we have four major consultancy fee main power cost operational cost and then overhead and all. And so, if you have consultancy fee and mental cost taken up all other cost are operational cost it is like your travel consumables your service always you can put it as operational cost ok. And then the institute puts a sort of tax on it it is overhead because you are going to use the water and electricity and you know other kind of infrastructure the library the computer to search and all things. So, that has a cost component and it varies from institute to institute but it is usually good amount. I think we have done all this thing then there is service tax and that has increased the consultancy this thing charge to industry industry of course does not like it, but government will collect service tax ok. And that is that is about 12.7 percent now that. So, 12.2 or something like that. So, that you have to add because you do not pay service tax for more pocket you have to and that is a good amount. So, any industry would like to pay because you know they are taking a service you are the service provider. So, that tax is they are we try to argue that you know this is educational institution lot of money is going towards developing facilities for education etcetera, but they do not agree saying you are providing a service. So, you have to pay the service tax and that is that is probably fair in a way. So, and industry pays it we do not pay. So, that is that is goes and this is very important do not have one idea or a one proposal. I think it is it has been shown that that is not a good thing to if all of a you do not find money for that idea or that proposal is not funded then you know it is not very encouraging at all. So, write at least 3 proposals or have 3 ideas going and of course, you do not submit all 3 proposal to one sponsoring agency you may be write one for the one industry 2 for 2 different government agencies 3 different proposals ok. And then if you are lucky you get all 3 funded fine you have to work hard and all 3 are successful you are an expert you will get lot of consultancy and there is a multiplicity effect and I will enjoy your R and D journey. Thank you very much.