 happened, there's some of our contracts that we know these contractors contribute to them. Ain't no question about it. You and I know we've been running for office long enough. I know that the fellow that buys the caterpillar tractor, he buys it on time, but he goes around and helps a little bit and I understand that helping business myself. But I said, now let's wait until this fiscal year's out and we're discharging a bunch of men, we're bringing them back, it loosens up summertime, we've got all these rights and then we'll release some of this money, but we'll keep faith of the Congress. So they went home and they all right. Now they've started it up and Fallon was gonna have a hearing and we got him to call it off. But then Kramer starts raising hell. Jennings Randolph don't stand too well in the pinch anyway, as you know, he kind of gives a little. So he's done called himself a hearing the 29th. I think what you can say to Kramer is, the president's asked me and Dirksen about withholding another $400 million. He can withhold it. You can't do a damn thing about it. You can pass resolution through this house, tell him not to and he'll veto the living hell out of it. And we're a hell of a poor people to be talking about withholding expenditures. And then when he withholds some, we make him cancel them. I'll get him not to take this other action and I'll get it released for you as soon as the year's over at a reasonable time, maybe August, September, somewhere along that where we can use it. But let's don't get this thing in partisan politics. Let me ask if I understand how you earmarked or set aside $400 million. Right. That's right. We withheld that at the range. Right. And you have contemplated or discussed the possibility of another form. Right. That's right. And I've told them and announced publicly that we're considering it, but we have not done it. So that they're that's what really stirred up the opposition when they heard the second withholding. Now, do I understand that even though you've discussed it and so forth, you are going to let that go out or how I would I would just forget it and cancel it and let it go on out. If I did, if I could buy them off. But you would stand firm on the 400 that you all discussed. That's right. Until till we decided that we could release it. And I'll be glad to talk to you about it. Whenever you're you get to her whenever we need some jobs, whenever we need to release it, I'm not all I want to do it for the economy period. Well, let me talk to Bill Premera. That's right. And talk to him, Dirksen. And let's get this hearing over in the Senate stopped. And what I will do, I'll take no action on impounding the other 400. If they challenge me and want to run in the ground, I can damn easily do it. And I don't believe you went between now and June 30. I don't want to, but I just want to help the economy. And I honestly think I honestly think that that we ought to hold it a little while longer, but we ought to release some of the housing, then road ought to come right after it. I think you kind of ought to do it by priorities. I think the soldiers are entitled to their release 600 million, because we've held it 18 months. I'm going to release some of the housing sometime in the spring. Then I'm willing to go along with the road. Can I talk to you about another man? Yes, or anything you want to. Anytime. Matter of fact, I resent a little bit. You don't call me up. You beat Charlie Halleck. He used to call me. Dirksen called me every week about something. I think we ought to get along better. I'm not, I don't mind you having all the men. If I expected if I got a real emergency, I'd get more votes in your place and I'd do some other places. Anyways, go ahead. What you got on your mind? You got a lot in 64. I mean, and your country was involved and the flag was going down. I imagine I could hardly fire on Republican side and get more help. And I could sometimes out of Rosenthal and some of my own boy. Go ahead. Now, what you got on right? We've got this debt limitation. I think our people, Mr. President, in the committee on ways and means tried to be responsible. And I want you to know that the action they suggested on the inclusion of PCs with that limitation did not mean and John Burns has said it would say it that he did not mean that if this was done, you had to reorganize the budget and show your figures differently. It was simply his feeling. And I think personally it sounds that these are obligations of the federal government and as such, they ought to be included in the ceiling. But that, in my opinion, is the least desirable and necessary of the two that they proposed. The other one was the lifting of the four and a quarter ceiling on full faith and credit obligations of the federal treasury. As long as I've been here, whether the secretary of the treasury has been Democrat or Republican, they have urged this arbitrary ceiling be lifted. In fact, one of your best friends, Bob Anderson, he came up and made the most forceful presentation, urging that the limitation be lifted because it would save money. It would permit the Treasury Department to more easily, more economically, more efficiently or effectively handle their terrible debt problems down there. Now, I don't like to see this issue because I think it's darned important, Mr. President, that you get an increase in the debt limitation. I hate to see it get involved in the partisan problems that they're going to be on this bill. I think it's Secretary of Treasury be happy to see you do this and our side, I think, would be happy to support if we didn't drive off a bunch of votes on the debt limit bill. Now, what you ought to do? I've looked over this whole thing, Jerry, you're all ought to play re-committal and partisan on this debt limit bill. This is one we need and we need in a hurry. We're fighting with the world. We've got all the finance ministers over there. We've got them to cut down their interest. We're fighting their balance of payments. We had a hell of a month this month. A damn good one. We're doing reasonably well. Federal reserves cooperating pretty good and we're moving along fine. This ought to be a quickie. You ought to run this and through and let us finance our obligations and do all you fighting on other things. Now, I think that Secretary of Treasury would be glad to meet you and endorse a goddamn bill to give him this leeway and fight for it and I'd go down and try to help him first on the PCs. Let's get back to it. I'm willing to appoint a commission. Put Bob Anderson on it, let him give us his ideas, put some of the other Republicans on it, put the controller general on it and agree on a budget that all of us will agree to. Every one of us. Now, when I and I are sold assets, it's all right. When we sell them, it's all wrong. I think we ought to agree how our budget's going to be and whatever presidents follow us, we can do it. On NIA administrative cash, I don't care. I'll teach it any way they want to treat it. But I think that it's important that if you're going to have all these loan programs that you all won't face up to, you just plain won't do it and you know as well as I do. College housing, I tried last year and you won't do it. You won't swallow that castor oil. R-E-A, you won't do it. I tried it last year. You're lending this money out three percent. It's costing us five percent. I think that I've got to have enough money if we're going to lend ten billion that you force me to lend. I can't raise it from taxpayers. I just can't go out and raise that much more. At first, it's not an operating expense. It's a loan. When I make a loan in my bank, I don't consider it an operating expense like the salary of my president. And everybody will agree with it. If your stans will agree with it, your Bob Anderson will agree with it. A loan is not an operating expense. Now, if we all are going to make us increase these loans, as you did, with Export-Import, Farmers Home, R-E-A, I went against all of them. I asked you last year to give me an R-E-A bank. I asked them to quit the college housing at three percent. That's, we know, we used to make these college loans. Three percent. You get five is easy. They ought to pay what the market cost. But I'm going to point a bipartisan commission. I'll talk to you about the commission if you want to. I'll talk to Dirksen about it. I want to have men that have nothing to do except draw the line. I plan to put Bob Anderson on it because I think I put George Humphrey on it if they want to. I put the ex-secretaries of the Treasury on it. I put Douglas Dillon on it. And let them come in and tell us, here's the way the budget ought to be. My own judgment is ought to be an NIA budget. I think what we raise on social security and just as much as government revenue is what we raise from an estate tax. And I think you ought to have that $175 billion we raise in there. And then the way we pay it out, I think that ought to be charged against it. Every expenditure we got, including Medicare, all this kind of stuff, except the loans. I think the loans ought to be. So that's the NIA budget. Now that's what I believe in. But if this commission tells me we want to go on with this present budget, that's okay by me. But we'll have a nonpartisan budget. We'll have it this year. We'll have the study this year and we'll come back to you this year. So much for the budget part of it now and the participation. Now when you get on the bonds, if you put this motion on here, you kill my debt limit. Now you don't want to do that. If your wife gets sick and you want to bring the doctor in to help her, well, you don't want to kill your kids. And that's what happens on this one. When you do this, you take on all the goers, the Patmans, all the group that's against what you want and what Fowler wants. You and Fowler are closer together than they are. But you just murder it and they can take it. And this is not a question of me or you. This is a question of the world picture. Bobby Kennedy came in here yesterday. He says, Germany is against you. France is against you. England's against you. Italy's against you. None of it doing as good as John F. Kennedy did. Well, now that's just because we're doing this fight in here. You cut me on one side and Bobby's cutting me on the other and you're selling your country short abroad and I'm not running for damn thing, don't want anything. I'll accept you as president tomorrow. If you give me any quit claim deed that you'll be president, I'll do it. I want to go back to my ranch and just enjoy life and I'm working my best and I'm not trying to be partisan. But we got to have this deadline and we got to have it this month. We ought to have it before you go on your holiday. We're too damn close. First, you made a mistake last year cutting it two billion, but you did. And now then we need it. Now when you put either one of these damn motions on it, you force me to try my damnedest to beat you, if I can and I can, I think. But anyway, you force me to do it and that ought to be the issue. But if it's going to be the issue, it ought to be on the second one. Not on this quickie that's up against the deadline because you just can't grind it out that fast. Now the way to solve both of them is the first place that John Burns won't admit this. But you folks started the sale of assets. You did it under eyes now. John Burns wrote in his minority report and I read it last year when I sent up the certification bill that this is what we ought to do. We ought to sell these damn things. And when it did it, then it got up there and you thought, well it helps him, gives him a budget advantage. Well I don't think anybody's elected or diselected on the budget, but anyway, that's that. And if you're going to do it, do it on the second one. And your participation, though, is that I'm just going to sell enough to meet the loan demands that you force upon me. Now how do you force them upon me? Export import, REAs, farmers home. Well Milt is raising hell, Fulbright is raising hell right now about farmers home loans. They can't get it. The banks don't make the loans so the government's got to make them that good loan. But we don't have the money. So I have to go out and get the money. And the only way I can get the money is to make them pay their loan or to sell the certificate that I've got. And the certificate are the best way to handle the money. Because you just sell an individual, nobody will buy 3% housing on. Nobody will buy 2% REA loan. But the thing that we're talking about here is that we are going to deprive you or the administration of the right to sell them. That's right. But let's simply say that if they are sold, they ought to and since they are an obligation of the federal government and this so has been so ruled by the attorney general so that you could sell them to the trust fund, then they ought to be included. And so are 98 billion others Jerry. You've got to tell them a lot of others the same way. That logic applies to a good many others. And what you do there is what you do there. Now you know I'm a good country girl. I can feel it when you do it. I've been doing it to y'all all these years and I know what you do is you run my deficit past hours and hours. Now we ain't gonna let you do that. He's my model and I'm always gonna he's my best friend. I'm gonna stay under hairs and oh Johnny he's got that little he's been messing around out there you know in Wisconsin. He understands how to do these things. I don't mind finding that out on the second one. I will just find out but don't do it on this and I gotta have quickie and it's you that's gotta have it. If we don't pay those veterans pensions and social security instead of my bragging on the 90th Congress I won't have to run it down. You think I'm gonna let you get by these hundred eighty seven to nothing boats and not glad that you praise his ally. I've just been I just been being real nice never saying a word got a rule and I'm taking all these things on making a list of them. So I'm a conscience won't hurt me when I slap back at you but you delivered them unanimous the other day up there and I felt so sorry for those poor neighbors the way you treated full. But they do it on the doing on the real one don't do it on the one we gotta have in a hurry that's why we're serious. I'll have power and and the whoever the tax expert is over there I guess it's standing on bonds the money man. I'll have them sit out with you and Johnny Byrne and whoever you want to on the Republican side and work out your bond deal and have them recommended as a separate measure I don't want to kill the deadline. Are the PCs if you want I'll have the bipartisan commission work out how that is now probably even in advance. I'll take Bob Anderson I'll take George Humphrey and I'll take whoever the secretary treasure was under Truman Douglas Dillon and Joe Fowler and I'll take the the controller general and we'll put the he's old man Richard's son-in-law so he's not a bad fellow and we'll have them say what a budget ought to be and I don't think this man's a part of his shoes I just jerked him out of the shoes I just jerked him out of the University of Maryland because Kermit Gordon had quit. Go to Smithsonian and go to Brookings and we'll follow what they say. I have been following Laird very frankly he's your monetary expert giving me unsure of hell and if you want to know why I haven't been following it I'm talking to him. I'm talking to him. I just I believe I've been a part of the establishment all my life and I talked to you and Dirkson. You're the only two men I talked to.