 Contention. Critique. Conjecture. Conclusion. Harlow with paperplusoffice.co.nz. Shop online any time. They're open 24-7. It's 19-6, News Talks ZB with Mike Yardley and joining us on the huddle tonight, Josie Pagani. Good evening Josie. Hi Mike. And from whaleoil.co.nz, Cam Slater. Good day Cam. Hi Mike. Now of course there's plenty of frenzy still underway over Labour's Crusade for gender balance. We've got David Shearer on the program after six. How do you think he can put this to bed, Cam? I mean apart from a sex change, Mike. Well Clayton's not having the operation. No. Look, in my opinion he's got to do a couple of things. Firstly, you know, no one thinks there's a crisis in Labour with women getting ahead. That's been their problem. What is the problem they're trying to solve here? Now everybody's talking about is the Labour Party set on making itself unelectable? So I think the first thing he's got to do is he's got to talk to working New Zealanders and say, right, your priorities are Labour's priorities. So he's got to talk about jobs. He's got to talk about incomes, housing. He's got to announce some big policy. And he's got to be absolutely disciplined about that for himself but also for every MP in that caucus that that is what they talk about. Nothing else. The second thing he's got to do is I think he's got to show at the conference and even before the conference that he's in control of the party. And that will mean making a strong position at conference against the man ban policy. And he's got to be prepared for some people not to like him, Mike. You see, I think that's the problem where he's tried to juggle everybody and keep everybody happy. Now's the time to put a stake in the ground and say what he stands for. Well, it's very hard to argue against any of that. In fact, I'm pretty much in agreement with that. But the sad fact is that David Shearer has lost control of this party. He is not in control. He's running from what is a really simple issue that should be easily dealt with. The only media he's talking to appears to be you, Mike. He's not talking to anybody else. And he's acting like the brave knight, Sir Robin, in the old... What was it there? You know what I mean? The old brave knight Sir Robin from... No, spit it out, Cam. I've got no idea what you're talking about. No idea? Why are you talking about Robin Hood? Are we talking Robin Hood? No, no, no. We're talking about brave Sir Robin. There was an old Monty Python holy grail type story about brave Sir Robin... You're noticing, Mike, this is good political tactic at work. He's managed to put sidetrackers all over the place now. Rather, you should be getting us back to the Labour Party, though, Cam. Well, indeed. Tonight, Cam... David Shearer is running away from this. And he's not talking about it. He's forbidding other MPs, particularly women, from talking about it, which is highly ironic. They've got a policy here, a rule change that they're proposing, which is supposedly to bring more women in. And yet, he's forbidding the women who support that to talk about it. It's gagging them at the same time. Although, Cam, did you see... Yeah, she made his situation a hell of a lot harder. Because she said he is committed to this. Well, you know, someone who is such poor media skill shouldn't be let loose on a TV show sitting there with Duncan Garner on one side and Chris Trotter on the other. She was absolutely torn apart. The crazy thing is that she thought she did well. Yeah, the problem they've got is that... Sorry, Cam, but the problem they've got is they're trying to distance themselves from the fact that this isn't just a policy that's up for discussion. It is something that's been backed by New Zealand Council. And so, I mean, I saw that interview, too, Mike. And I think what she was saying, which is true, and I agree with this, too, that the target of getting more women into Parliament so that you've got a more representative a number of women in Parliament, that's a great target. But there's a big difference between a target and a quota. Now, in a country like Afghanistan where women have been marginalised horribly for centuries, then, yep, you need a quota to get them into Parliament because you can't take 300 years to do it. Thank you, Josie. We'll take a break. We'll be back with the huddle very shortly. It's 14 to 6. Mike Yadley, drive. Yep, with the new ANZ, the bank that gives you more. It is 12 to 6. News Talks ZB. We are on the huddle with Cam Slater from Whale Oil and Josie Pagani. This issue in the Manawa too. The health authorities there are being accused of forcing elderly rest home residents to quit smoking by banning them from lighting up indoors or outdoors in rest homes. Is this over the top, Cam? Well, these poor old pensioners have paid their dues. They've actually, if they've got to being in a rest home and smoking, have beaten the odds in the first place. In actual fact, they've probed and paid their fair share with all the extra tobacco taxes that they've paid. I reckon let them chug away. Indoors maybe we can move them into a separate room. Outdoors, I don't see a problem with it. I think that these people are being picked on when they've unfairly paid an extortionate amount of tax. Yeah, they're not in prison, are they? Look, if I make it to my 80s, I intend to smoke too much, take up whiskey drinking, wear too much makeup, be rude to people and take up inappropriate hobbies. Maybe I should start that now. And all sorts of things like that. Exactly. You don't want to go into the grave regretting the things that you could have done. I think that's the thing, isn't it, that voluntarily a rest home can go smoke free now. So if all the people living there decide that's what they want, fine, but it's not a... We're not talking about prisoners here. I don't think we're moaning about it being indoors, are we? We don't mind banning smoking indoors, but if an old codger wants to go outside and suck on a cigarette... And the southerly go for it, yeah. That's where it seems extremely fascist, isn't it? Well, it's just... I just think it's unnecessary. It's different to the mental health... You know, the DBH... DHB, sorry, have won this case about mental health patients. Now, that's different. If you're a nurse in an acute mental health ward, you don't want to be working around people smoking. I think that's a different case, really, morally. No, it's a different case. As I feel sorry for them, they've paid all that tax from their cigarette smoking. This is the problem, though, that we've had with these health commissars that have dictated that we can't eat sugar and we can't smoke cigarettes. And these are all personal choice matters here. And if people are prepared to pay the taxes to do that, we should let them do it. Sure. I've got 60 seconds, guys, just very quickly on this dreadful plane crash at SFI yesterday. I was staggered to see in some of those Twitter photos that some of the passengers, as they evacuated out of the aircraft, were holding their hand luggage. I don't know if I'd be stopping for the hand luggage. They're high heels off, that's what I want to know. All these things that you're told... You know, you always ignore anyway. Yeah, but the one thing that, you know, you leave your luggage behind and take your high heels off. I would have been the one taking the photo because I would have been out there faster than anybody else. In your high heels, Cam. It's in my high heels. Don't knock it till you've tried it, Josie. Well, there you go. My heels are a plane crash. Well, you know, the interesting thing about this plane crash, now the video's been released and there's some reports coming out. It looks like the pilot dropped it in the water 200 metres short. Yeah, TLO too slow. It looks like the plane. Yeah, it looks like it, doesn't it? It certainly looks that way, absolutely. Thank you, guys. Very nice to talk. Josie Pagani and Cam Slater. It's eight to six in News Talk ZB.