 Fy oeddwn i, mae'r dweud y gaf, sy'n gwybod i'r gael ar gyfer, ond mae'n gwybod hi i ni maen nhw eu hwn, i'n mynd i chi, ac i chi'n mynd i gael. Yr hynny'n cymaint o gyfioedau cyfle ym hynny i mor gwnaeth o'r bynnag, yn y cwestio Maggychartman, yn y cwestii unio unigol mae'n cael ei ddweud, yn y ddweud mae gennym hon yn cwestiynau ni peudoch chi'n mewn cyfferon? Efallai nhw'n cyfeminio i gael o'r byddus. yn ddesgfaith, fel ydych chi'n gwneud ei fod yn sekwm o'ch hunain o'ch cychwyn ar gyfer, ac mae'r ddweud maen nhw'n gweithio i'r talu gyda'r gallu gwcliwnol pan o'ch cychwyn am draws gw ClickJetman, felly mae'n mynd i'r ddyfodol i'r ddweud ddiweddol i fy mhwyllt calledigo yn adreff iawn. Llywodraeth ddweud mae'n ddweud i fy mhwylltio i'r ddweud i fy mhwylltio i'r ddweud i fy mhwylltio i'r ddweud i fy mhwylltio i'r ddweud. Rydw i'n adonai'r amser yn gyffredinol hiad yn y gallu digwydd gwagodinol, prof. Anna Stec ar Djol Llancaisiau yng Nghymru, John MacKenzie i ddyn nhw i rhai ar y ofetr. Ffawr uchel. Rydw i'n meddwl am p'r dda, rydw i'n trefiau o'r hir, rydw i'n gweld ei wneud am gweithio hefyd. nhw nad oes arbennais bod ydych yn sicr i'r rydw i'r amser, yr nghymru, yr mynd i rydw i'r llwyffydd, Yn gael dwi i'n cymryd aethau hynny mae'n simhach fel hynny yw mae'n ei gynllun cyd-ddau gyda'r cyrraedd o fflaen o bryd, ac o llwyaith, o bryd cyfrifoedd, o bryd cyrraedd, o bryd cyfrifoedd, of Grenfell stands as a terrible testament to the priorities of the powerful. We remember with grief those who lost their lives there and renew our solidarity with the hundreds injured and bereaved. And we know now of another appalling price that was paid for that greed and contempt with the news that many firefighters who battled that blaze have now been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Grenfell represents a particular horror, but those impacts upon the health of firefighters are neither unique nor unusual. Here in Scotland, Anne's story is typical of the experience of firefighters and their families. Herself, a nurse, she writes and I quote, My husband George was due to retire from the fire service in June 2017 and we had planned our retirement intending to travel and enjoy a new freedom. In July 2017, we were to be enjoying an extended holiday on a sunny beach. Instead, we were sitting in the waiting area of our local cancer hospital after he was diagnosed with stage 4 kidney cancer six weeks before he retired. George sadly died in 2020 from cancer and as many firefighters will tell you, they all know a colleague with a cancer diagnosis or one who has sadly died of cancer and often at a young age with a young family. I end that quote. A groundbreaking study led by Professor Anna Steck has been published in the scientific journal Occupational Medicine this month. It is entitled Scottish firefighters occupational cancer and disease mortality rates 2020 to 2020 and it reveals the extent, the depth and the scope of the scandal and we can with accuracy call it a scandal I think for it has gone unaddressed in the UK by research, law and practice. The study indicates that Scottish firefighters have a higher mortality rate from cancer at younger ages than their counterparts in the general population. Rare cancers are often only diagnosed in firefighters when they have already reached a terminal stage and prostate cancer, leukemia and cancer of the esophagus among others have mortality rates in firefighters which are several times that of the general population. Other diseases too are far more likely to kill firefighters than the rest of us with mortality rates from stroke more than doubled and from heart attacks multiplied by five. Those findings are supported by a four-part study of firefighters health risks across the UK and by an assessment by the international agency for research on cancer part of the world health organisation which concluded that firefighting as an occupation was carcinogenic. Both these studies were published last year and align with evidence from many other countries. I'm very grateful to Maggie Chapman to give way on this point and I congratulate her on securing this debate. Following the decision by the World Health Organization with regard to the carcinogenic attitude with regard to firefighters does she agree with me that perhaps we now need to look to this being registered both as an industrial accident and disease so that support can be given to firefighters across the UK. Maggie Chapman. I thank Mark Woodfield for that intervention and I will come on to some of the requests of the FBU's campaign but I think that that would be a very interesting avenue to explore and I'd happily talk to him further about that after this debate. Firefighters in the UK have waited far too long for the protections which are standard practice elsewhere. Many, as we know, have died waiting. We in Scotland now have the opportunity to change this, to bring justice, care, humanity and respect to the firefighters to whom we owe so very much. That is why I am calling upon the Scottish Government to make four vital commitments today. The first, very simply, is for regular annual health screening for firefighters both during their period of service and afterwards into retirement. We know the importance of preventative health and the crucial difference made by early diagnosis. Let's give our firefighters and the medics who care for them the best possible chance of avoiding the worst. The second commitment, which I and the FBU are seeking, is that occupational information be included in health and similar records, including on death certificates. Again and again in this chamber and in our committee rooms we reiterate the vital importance of data, of accurate information to inform policy and practice. Where patients are or have been firefighters, that fact matters. It needs to be known and recorded. The third reform that firefighters need is for a just and fair compensation scheme, and this may be related to the point that Markingwood Field was making. Many jurisdictions, including Australia, Canada, Poland and nearly all US states, have presumptive legislation for firefighters, laws that recognise their enhanced risk and the realities of long-term and repeated exposure. We can learn from best practice across the world to develop a Scottish model filling that shameful gap in our justice and protection. Finally, I am asking for a budget to support the practical work that needs to be done on the ground in fire stations across Scotland. We need to ensure, as a matter of urgency, that stations have the resources, the facilities, the training and the systems to minimise contamination and to maximise health. It is a substantial task but an achievable one, and the FBU is ready and willing to work with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, with the Scottish Government and with us as MSPs to make it happen in every constituency. Three years ago in Dundee, a huge fire broke out at an industrial estate in a unit, the roof of which contained asbestos cement. It is too early to know whether those burning fibres in the air have affected the health of the brave local firefighters who put out the blaze. What we do know is that firefighters across Scotland, day in and day out, bear the risks of significant and life-threatening disease. Far too long, those risks to firefighters in the UK have been much higher than they need to be. Our firefighters put their lives on the line every day for us, for the safety of our homes and the wellbeing of our pets and our communities. They are the ones that we trust to come into our homes. They are the public servants that command the highest levels of public support and respect. It is time for us in Scotland to take a lead, to recognise and respect our heroes, to support and enable the Fibregates Union's vital campaign. I hope that the minister will agree to meet with the FBU and me to discuss how best we can do that, because it is definitely time to act. Thank you very much, Ms Chapman. Understandably, there is a lot of interest among colleagues to participate in the debate. We started late and afternoon business will resume at 2pm, so I will have to ask colleagues to stick to their speaking time allocations. With that, I ask Joe Fitzpatrick to be followed by Russell Finlay up to four minutes. Thank you also to Maggie Chapman for securing this important debate. I want to begin by joining colleagues to come at, I am sure, across the chamber by placing my gratitude on the record to all fire and rescue officers and indeed to all emergency service workers who keep us all safe on a daily basis. That collective gratitude is, however, worthless if we do not heed the warnings of Professor Anastheck, whose groundbreaking research has informed the FBU's decon campaign. As we have heard from Maggie Chapman, UK firefighters are four times more likely to get cancer in their working life. I thought that it was important to repeat that shocking statistic. In short, the decon campaign aims to protect firefighters and their families from carcinogenic fire contaminants. Not only are our firefighters risking their lives to keep us all safe, they are risking their health and the health of their family. I am pleased therefore that Parliament is debating this matter. It is incumbent on all of us to do everything within our power to protect those who risk their lives to protect us. Presiding Officer, I had the pleasure of visiting Blackness Fire Station in my constituency recently. Having discussed the decon campaign directly with firefighters, I submitted a written question to the minister on the matter. I was very pleased to be informed by the minister that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is engaging with this research and met Professor Anastheck in November last year to hear directly about the important research that she is doing and to offer Scottish Fire and Rescue Services co-operation on that work. I was further informed that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has a management of contaminants group, which has already made significant changes in procedures, equipment and facilities to reduce firefighters' contact with equipment that could contain contaminants harmful to health. I understand that that important work will continue and it is really important that this Parliament uses its power to make sure that it does. Anastheck, one of the difficulties encountered by officers is having suitable facilities to decontaminate their protective equipment after use, often reusing the same equipment for a second emergency call-out. One of the key recommendations in Professor Stach's reports is for all fire and rescue services to establish and strictly maintain designated zones within the fire station as a priority for preventing cross-contamination. That will not always be straightforward, so I call on the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to work with the FBU at a station level to establish designated zones as quickly as possible. The report sets out some of the ways in which firefighters may be exposed to toxic contaminants, including inhalation, dermal absorption and ingestion. The report also highlights some of the health risks caused by exposure, in addition to cancer such as coronary heart disease, cirrhosis of the liver and many others. I have a quote, but I am mindful of the Presiding Officer's points regarding timing, so I encourage people to look at the report from the decon work. I want to conclude by thanking Maggie Chapman once again for securing that important debate on the matter, which has allowed members across the chamber to highlight the risks experienced by firefighters every day. I would also like to thank the Fire Brigades Union and Professor Anna Stack and our team at the University of Central Lancashire. Finally, I want to thank all our fire and rescue officers once more for keeping us all safe. I hope that the Scottish Government can work with Scottish Fire and Rescue and the FBU to ensure that all the key recommendations of the report are implemented and implemented as soon as possible. I begin by informing the chamber that I have a commitment to attend an event at Glasgow Airport this afternoon, which means that I am unable to stay for the duration of Maggie Chapman's important debate. I mean her no disrespect and I am grateful to you, Presiding Officer, for agreeing to my request to leave after today's opening speeches. The issues raised today are extremely serious. The University of Central Lancashire study, commissioned by the FBU and referred to in Maggie Chapman's motion, is shocking. Professor Stack and her team found deeply concerning cancer rates among firefighters. That follows last year's WHO designation of firefighting as a carcinogenic occupation. I know that others will talk in detail about those findings. I turn to the two most significant recent publications from or about the SFRS. The first is the Scottish Government's Fire and Rescue Framework for Scotland, which was published 10 months ago. It contains seven strategic priorities, number six of which is the category of people. There are references to fair work and pay, equal opportunities, new skills and being representative of society. All important stuff, no doubt. Yet, in 37 pages, there are just two paragraphs about health, wellbeing and safety, and not a single mention of contaminants. The other report is the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service annual performance review, which was published four months ago. It lists 10 priorities, number 10 of which is people. That comprises almost five pages talking about diversity, inclusion and other matters. There is a page about physical wellbeing, mostly in the context of physical fitness. Again, that is all very important, but the entire 48-page report contains just two sentences on contaminants. We continue to strengthen our approach to health and medical surveillance and considering a range of options to ensure that we deliver health assessments in accordance with our statutory requirements. That really does not tell us much. I do not know what the firefighters here and elsewhere would make of it. Two official reports, 85 glossy and expensive pages, yet only the most fleeting mention of contaminants, which are likely to be the cause of high cancer rates and premature deaths. I do not doubt for a moment the commitment of senior officers towards their people. Few organisations have such an admirable aspre record. I saw this first hand on a recent visit to Paisley fire station, but I am left questioning why the corporate output shies away from this important issue. The bottom line is money. Specifically, it is about financial choices made by government. More specifically, it is about choices made by SNP ministers in Edinburgh about how money is spent. Many fire stations are old, lack basic facilities and are in a state of serious disrepair. It is beyond question that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has been starved of cash year after year. You do not have to take my word for it. Interim chief officer Ross Haggart has confirmed to Parliament's criminal justice committee that he needs £500 million just to bring infrastructure up to a decent standard. That is £0.5 billion. In closing, I commend Maggie Chapman's motion and I also back her specific calls for action on this very important subject. I thank Maggie Chapman sincerely and also for her superb speech this afternoon. I was delighted to host the presentation of the report with her late last year. According to action on asbestos, a firefighter is two and a half times more likely to develop mesothelioma at a type of lung cancer. A mesothelioma is invariably a fatal cancer that results from exposure to asbestos fibres. It causes horrific suffering and loss not only to those affected but also to their family and friends who have witnessed someone close to them suffer and die. Asbestos is related, illnesses are not the only risks that firefighters face as you have heard as a result of their occupation. Firefighters are four times more likely to get cancer, sometimes up to 15 years earlier than the average working person. That has been directly linked to toxic contaminants released during fires and it is unacceptable that the actual fact of the matter continues to go unaddressed any longer. As you have heard from other speakers, the World Health Organization declared occupational exposure experienced by firefighters as a carcinogenic preventable cause of human cancer, but yet there is no mandate or policy for regular checks or screening for cancer throughout their careers. It is totally unacceptable. However, it is not an issue confined to Scotland. We have heard recently that a dozen firefighters who have tackled the blaze at the Grenfell tower in June 2017 have since been diagnosed with terminal cancer, so there is no doubt that firefighters are exposed to health and life-threatening contaminants as a result of their occupation. There have been a number of studies that focus on the risks and dangers associated with the contaminated personal protective equipment and workplaces. A large focus was placed on the bringing of contaminants back to the stations on clothing, PPE and vehicles, and those studies have shown that there is a preventable high risk of exposure to carcinogenic and toxic substances in fire stations. However, as we have heard in the presentation, firefighters working in rural parts of Scotland have expressed fear that they are in increased risk of cancer, because so many of our rural stations are without running water. Their inability to shower quickly after returning from fires means that they cannot properly clean cancer-causing chemicals released during fires on their clothes and skin. I am sure that the minister will address his question, because our report last year stated that 11 Scottish fire stations in remote countryside areas had inadequate facilities, a matter that I know that the FBU has repeatedly raised. Professors' next study and research commissioned by the FBU now absolutely confirms what firefighters and their representatives in Scotland have been advocating for years. Unfortunately, firefighting causes cancer. In my last minute, Presiding Officer, I just wanted to address the question of all of Maggie Chapman's ask, which I fully support, but worryingly it seems that the industrial injuries, disabling and benefit advisory groups set up by the Government in 2016 hasn't met for some time, and I think it's important that we get that up and running. Having previously been involved in the fight against asbestos and cancers in other industries, it may be important to look at the causal link, which is clearly established, and to look at whether or not there is now an accepted causal link, which sadly is the case for workers who need to challenge their employers and fight for compensation for being put in those conditions. We should make it easy for firefighters to be able to do that, in the way that we have done for other professions such as Shipyard workers, for example, under the Metathiliau Leoma conversation scheme. It's a difficult issue to raise, but it's one that we must address. I fully support the Fire Brigade Union's asks on this matter, and I look forward to hearing the minister's response. I thank both Maggie Chapman for hosting this important debate today, and to Unity Consulting, led by Neil Findlay, who, for their contributory work in bringing this campaign to the attention of the Scottish Parliament. 15 million is the number of firefighters working globally to protect people and the environments with living and working by putting themselves on the line, by entering some of the dangerous situations to take control of fires and save lives. That is an inherently dangerous job, and those firefighters deserve a praise and respect for the risks that they have to take. Today, however, we are here to do more than just that. We are here to look at what we can do to protect the health of firefighters in return. The Fire Brigade Union's de-con campaign outlines practical steps that can be taken to promote the health of firefighters. That is based on new findings revealing higher-cancer risks that firefighters face just by doing their jobs. That campaign is based on the comprehensive work of Professor Anastec from the Centre for Fire and Hazard Science at the University of Central Lancaster, UCLan, for short. The FBU has been working with UCLan for three years to understand the link between fire exposure and cancer. Together, it has now evidence that firefighters are four times more likely to get cancer than the average working person. That drives home how important it is that parliamentarians, the Government, unions, fire stations and firefighters themselves gain the best possible understanding of what health risks there are being exposed to and what preventative actions can be taken. The FBU General Secretary made a strong statement to this effect, saying that the report delivers clear and authoritative guidance to fire and rescue services across the UK about the measures that they can take to minimise firefighters' exposure to contaminants. Right now, there is a step change happening in the firefighting profession to re-evaluate how health is best protected. That is because of vital research done globally that has facilitated this shift. Last year, the World Health Organization looked for the second time at cancer rates amongst firefighters. They were able, finally, to verify that cancer is more likely due to the work of 30 global studies that had monitored firefighters' health. However, as UCLan has shown, that is not translated yet into awareness on the ground, as 84 per cent of firefighters frequently or sometimes do not know about using respiratory protective equipment well enough despite inhalation and ingestion being one of the main routes for cancer to develop. More needs to be done to incorporate the report's suggestions so that those statistics are reversed. Facilities must also be in place on-site for cleaning and decontamination. Finally, I would like to close by highlighting some parallel work in the welding sectors to address the issue of inhalation and ingestion of carcinogenic contaminants. John Brown at the GMB-based BAE Systems on the Clyde have launched the Breathe Easy campaign to address the impact of heavy metal welding fumes on members and their families. There is a potential for collaboration across sectors with similar cancer risks on how we can encourage preventative measures to be adopted so that there is more uptake in workers' following protective procedures and that there is significant and sufficient provision for these measures from employers and government in the first place. I congratulate Maggie Chapman on securing this debate and thank the Fire Brigade Union for all the work that it is doing on this issue. The exposure of firefighters to toxins during the course of their employment is creating a health crisis. There are currently 357 fire stations in Scotland and the FBU estimates that over 100 lack sufficient showering or toilet facilities. The figure was confirmed by interim chief officer Ross Haggart when I questioned him at the criminal justice committee recently. He also confirmed that around one in four fire stations in this country lack basic bathroom facilities and some stations do not have a running water supply. In total, 220 are in poor or bad condition. 150 do not have showering facilities, 100 lack drying facilities and 11 have no water supply at all. The FBU also claims that a number of stations are held together by internal scaffolding. The fire and rescue service has also cancelled a multimillion-pound contract for a new command and control system due to financial pressures. Mr Haggart estimated that £138 million was needed just to address the essential health and safety issues that are being highlighted. He also said that there was a further £630 million backlog on the fire services capital budget. Those issues are nothing to do with budgetary issues this year. Those issues are nothing to do with whatever settlement may be coming for Westminster. Those issues are a result of a failure to give the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service the resources it needs to invest in its capital projects over many, many years. I believe that it is shameful that we are in this position today. The resource budget for the fire service has been cut by £40 million in real terms since 2012-13, and is set to suffer a further real-time terms cut over the next four years. It is clear that there is a very rich scheme of research that shows that firefighters as an occupation is carcinogenic. It is also clear, legally, that the employers have a responsibility and that, if cases were taken to court, they would be liable. There are very practical issues that this debate raises. We know that, over the period 2012-2013, until last year, almost 1,100 firefighter jobs were cut across the uniform post in Scotland, which is almost 15 per cent of the total workforce. That is partially due to lack of investment, but there is also a growing perception that firefighting is not a safe profession and that the pay levels are not attractive and that the FPU is currently balloting over pay. I think that the message that comes out of the debate today is that the Scottish Government needs to make a top priority to make sure that the risks that are being highlighted in this debate today are addressed. They have a legal responsibility to act as the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has a responsibility to put into place a safe system of work for the people they employ. Frankly, this situation is not good enough, and firefighters deserve better. Ms Clark, can I call Jamie Greene to be followed by Richard Leonard up to four minutes, Mr Greene? Thank you. I am not sure how I am going to do this ahead of Richard Leonard. I know that he is going to give a stomping speech on behalf of Scotland's firefighters, but I will do my best. I want to thank Maggie Chapman for raising this issue in the chamber today. It is a really important debate. It is an issue that I have raised both in the chamber and the Criminal Justice Committee on a number of occasions. We should not be having this debate in members' business from opposition or back benches. We should be having it from the Government's benches because what has happened to Scotland's firefighters over the past 16 years is shameful and it is a marker shame on the Government. I mean that as no disrespect to the minister on the front bench because I know that she is new to the role and new to the Parliament, but this is a long time coming. It is absolutely right that we get it on the record The briefing from the FBU made it starkly clear. There is not much that I can add to the statistics that we have heard in today's debate from some of the excellent speeches that I have heard already, but they have made some very clear asks. Those were reiterated by Ms Chapman at the beginning of the debate today. The introduction of legislation so that firefighters have a clear route to compensation. I know that I have worked on legislation around compensation in this Parliament before. I know that it is difficult, I know that it is complicated, but it is not impossible and that is something that I want the Government to reflect on. Annual health monitoring for all firefighters and those who have retired, and that is key because let's think that the average age of a firefighter in Scotland is 41 years of age. They fall well below the threshold of many of the standard checks that older people would currently get, but we know that they need those checks for all the reasons that we have already heard today. The last and most important one that I want to focus on in my brief comments is investment in facilities, equipment and what I call the basics. Those are the absolute basics. I raised it in this chamber before. None of us would come in and sit in this Parliament if the roof was dripping and falling down. None of us would sit in our offices if we couldn't go to the toilet. None of us would cycle in to work if there wasn't a shower facility at the end of every corridor in the member's block. Why would we put up with such conditions but we expect firefighters to do the same? It's shocking and it's shameful. They are putting their life on the line day in, day out, every hour of, every day. In recent events, very high profile fires across Scotland have reminded us of the absolute tragedy that can occur when fires break out, but they are always there for us when we need them. Why are we not always there for them? I want to mention also briefly when the firefighters with the FBU held a protest outside this Parliament in October last year, I went out to see them. I did get some bemused looks from some of the trade union officials, but nonetheless I was pleased to be there and I think they were grateful for my presence. The reason I went out, Minister, is because I went out to speak to the five fighters themselves. It's all very well apothecating over academic studies. Let's go and talk to them one-to-one. They told me what it's like on the ground. They're really proud of the work that they do. They're really proud of the success rate that they have, but they do it in the most difficult of circumstances. Why do we have fire stations with no running water and basic shower facilities? It's that decontamination that needs to happen quickly within hours or even minutes of getting back to the fire station. If you can't have a shower, if you can't change your clothes, of course you're going to be at higher risk of cancerous outcomes later in life. We know that. The health experts tell us that. The academics tell us that. If we know all that, why can't a firefighter do the most basic thing when they get home and have a shower? We all do it, so why can't they and the Government need to think about that? As was mentioned by Katie Clark, it is about budget, and it's about capital budget, not resource budget. It's not a pay discussion. It's about investment in facilities. There's half a billion pounds backlog. I know that the minister doesn't have half a billion pounds of per sleeve to fix that, but this has been happening for 16 years as chronic under-investment, and the minister must reflect on that. The Government must not just apologise, but realise what it's going to do to make a difference. I'm not expecting to pull rabbits out of hats to find that kind of money, but it's going to have to come up with a plan and how they're going to invest in basic facilities so that we reduce the risks. I simply want to close on this. I could talk about this all day. It's a really important issue, but every one of us in this chamber owes it to Scotland's firefighters to protect them as much as possible. It is simply not happening. We are playing catch-up with our emergency services. This Government must and should do better. I thank the Fire Brigades Union for supporting this critical, significant ground-breaking research carried out by Anna Steck and her team at the University of Central Lancashire. There is a direct relationship between working-class occupations and life expectancy, health and wellbeing. It has long been recognised. I mean, go and look at the old trade union banners, shorter hours and longer life, out of darkness into light, the hope of labour is the welfare of all. A reminder that the trade union movement from its inception has always organised and campaigned for its members and not just to mitigate the effects of the system, but to fundamentally change the system. What comes in this report should not surprise us, but it should nonetheless shock us all, and it should shame the Government into action. The findings are stark. Scottish firefighters, compared with the general population, are almost twice as likely to die from unary cancers, two and a half times more likely to die from cancer of the esophagus, more than three times as likely to die from acute myloid leukemia and nearly four times more likely to die from cancer of the prostrate. Let us be clear that this high prevalence and high mortality rate of cancer is caused by occupational exposure, which is why it strikes not only the older but the younger firefighter too. Only last week, the Daily Mirror revealed that just five years on from the Grenfell Tower fire, 12 of the heroic firefighters who saved so many lives there themselves are now suffering from rare terminal cancers, some are aged only in their forties. As recently as March 2021, the Industrial Injuries Advisory Council ruled against recognising cancer as a prescribed disease for firefighters, citing, I quote, insufficient evidence. Well, now we have the irrefutable evidence, now we have this new data, so not to right this wrong would not only be an abdication of duty, it would be a negation of the truth and it would be justice denied. So the action we need from the SNP Green government is this, resources for our fire and rescue service for preventative screening and monitoring of firefighters irrespective of age. Second, the routine monitoring of firefighters exposed to toxic fire effluence after attending incidents. Third, we need properly resourced and active joint health and safety committees, but we also need facility time for training on the FBU decon programme as part of that preventative health approach. Fourthly, now we have the devolution of IIDB, Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit. We should have our own active industrial injuries advisory council for Scotland. That is precisely what my old friend and comrade Alex Bennett, a miner, trade unionist, a tireless fighter for his class, not least at IIDB appeals tribunals who sadly passed away last week long campaign for. That is how we should honour his memory and it is precisely as well what Mark Griffin is calling for in his member's bill. This FBU campaign is about saving the lives of those who saved the lives of others. We keep our faith in them. It is now our turn to repay their faith in us, justice for our firefighters, victory to the FBU. Thank you to Maggie Chapman for bringing the debate to the chamber to everyone who has spoken as the last speaker. Of course, welcome to the guests in the gallery and thanks to them. Many of us will have friends, family members or colleagues who have been diagnosed with cancer and witnessed the intolerable toll that that takes on them and their families. For those who dedicate their lives to protect us from the risk presented by fire to life and property, the likelihood of suffering, as we have heard, is four times higher. It is totally unacceptable. Despite that knowledge, firefighters still bravely face the flames and take on the job that few of us have experienced. I cannot imagine what it feels like and that bravery to continue to do the job that they love. As with so many things relating to cancer and other associated health outcomes, we still do not fully understand the precise details of why that increased exposure is so prevalent in the line of work. However, that absolutely brilliant report and the accompanying campaign, we now know so much more and even better than that, we know some of the information and detail that we must take, the steps that we must take to protect those workers. That is a truly groundbreaking piece of research. It lays the foundation for an improvement in the fire service, the likes of which we have not seen for many years and it is important that we take this report seriously. The FBU's decon campaign has been a welcoming example of how we can utilise first-class research and increase awareness campaigns to decrease harm and achieve progress in the workplace. It is a model for the sort of work that we should be doing right across the workplaces, in industry and services, and I wholeheartedly applaud the FBU and the team at the university for that achievement and for taking that forward. That report not only provides evidence for the heightened risks for firefighters and what they face, but it provides practical steps that we can get behind that we have heard from other speakers. We can successfully minimise firefighters' exposure. For the sake of time, I particularly want to comment on the fact that some of the steps that can be taken are actually very simple, but, as we have heard, because of the way in which we have seen the firefighters' workplace decrease and the resources go into that, it is quite shocking that we cannot do some of those simple steps at this time. I think that everyone in the chamber would agree that that must change immediately. That research is groundbreaking and we must meet those simple steps immediately. By taking simple steps such as wearing respiratory equipment at all times, preventing cross-contamination of PPE, changing clothes and showering within an hour, regular health screening for firefighters—as one of the members mentioned, I have retired firefighters—we can hugely change the outcomes and it is absolutely essential that we do that. I conclude by again remarking on the importance of this study for firefighters and for the way in which we look at workplaces. It is so informative and I really enjoyed reading it and thinking about how that could change the outcomes for so many of our workers across industry and services and improve the outcomes for valuable professions. Thank you for everyone who spoke and again to Maggie Chapman for bringing this crucial issue to the chamber. First, I, too, would like to thank Maggie Chapman for raising this important debate and bringing it to the attention of the wider Parliament today. I would also like to acknowledge the significant work of the Fire Brigades Union in commissioning this important research with the University of Central Lancashire and the production of the report that has been discussed today, which I have closely read, and I welcome them and Professor Anastac to the gallery today. The safety and health and wellbeing of all SNP staff who work so hard to protect communities in some of the most challenging environments is of the utmost importance and a key priority to me. Now, whilst, as the employer of firefighters in Scotland, the FBUD-Con campaign, the research and any of its subsequent findings are a matter for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, as minister with portfolio responsibility, that is an issue that I intend to pursue rigorously given its vital significance. Through regular meetings with the FRS board chair and chief officer, I am fully aware of that research and I know that they have been engaged with this work for a number of years and met with Professor Anastac in November 2022 to hear directly about the important research that she is doing and offer SFRS continued co-operation on that work. SRS established its management and contaminants working group in 2018, which we have heard to look at the potential risks and how to support firefighting safety. The group includes representation from the FBUD and has links to external specialists and is supported at the highest levels of SRS staff. The purpose of the working group is to look at technical, procedural and cultural solutions to mitigate the risks of personnel and any others who may be affected by the actions of SRS personnel being exposed to contaminants. I am very aware that she is quite new to the role and this is a massive challenge that she has been presented with. Would she accept that, in particular some of the research that is coming forward, it makes it clear that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service have significant legal liabilities and that there will be a need for significant capital expenditure and that puts this into a priority category for attention. Is that something that she will try to address? Minister, I will give you the time back. Just to assure Kate Clark that I did say that this is something that I intend to pursue rigorously for the reasons that she has outlined. It is not that long ago that a sutstein tunic was inextricably linked to the courage and the dedication of our firefighters whilst now we absolutely know that that suit, along with the aerosol vapours, signify harmful contaminants. The SFRS have already made significant practical changes in procedures, equipment and facilities to reduce firefighter contact with equipment that could contain contaminants harmful to health and that important work is going to continue. Many years ago, probably about 15 years ago, I was on call in a communal refuge in Ayrshire when we had a fire. I will be forever indebted to the firefighters that came out that day and their dedication to ensuring that all the women and children were safe. One of the things that I noticed for two years after that was that the suit worked its way out of every single nook and cranny in that refuge, so that suit I know is a significant contaminant. We know about some of the practical changes that have been introduced, including working practices, to ensure that firefighting equipment is properly cleaned and stored to reduce contamination. Operational personnel who may have been exposed to contaminants are encouraged to shower as quickly as possible on return to a station grounds. I know that in some of our remote and rural areas, we have limited welfare facilities and procedures have been developed to ensure that firefighters in those areas have appropriate decontamination solutions. That is not ideal, and I intend to engage directly on that urgent matter. I am very clear on that. A number of steps have also been taken to mitigate risk. That includes supplying all SRS appliances and training centres with specialist decontamination wipes and the trial of station zoning systems to limit any potential spread, which is something that another member mentioned earlier. I am listening with interest and I will take what the minister is saying at complete face value on the urgency of the matter, but what I have not heard are any of the practical solutions that I think we need to be hearing. It is all very well offering decontamination wipes to people, but they need showers and facilities. If they do not exist, where are they going to come from? As Jamie Greene himself pointed out, it is very difficult to answer those questions when I have not directly engaged with the FBU on this matter, which I am going to do in a few weeks as an extra meeting because of the significant importance of it. I will come back on those issues because I recognise the importance. Opportunities are now being explored as to how the SRS can work with Professor Stick on the potential positive impacts of policies, training and awareness and preventative measures as the contaminates group continues to explore steps to minimise risk and improve firefighting safety as a result of the newly published report. As part of the wider commitment to the welfare of SRS staff, they have developed a dedicated cancer awareness and prevention area in their internal eye hub. That is important, given that some of the types of cancers that we are talking about in some age groups is more than just 1.5 per cent or 5 per cent. It is significantly higher than that. SRS has also implemented enhanced cancer-focused screening questions and discussions during routine medical assessments, for example skin checks, testicular and breast-self-checks, and I have introduced a data collection process to record, monitor and report on cancer diagnosis, which includes details of the type of cancer, age, gender, role, duty system, work and home locations. Given the recent research highlighting a potential increase in the rate of heart attacks and strokes, I am keen to explore that further and will engage with the FBU on their asks surrounding annual health monitoring. I think that that is really important. In February 2022, the service also signed the dying for work charter to show continued commitment to the welfare of their staff by protecting rights at work of those facing a serious or terminal illness. It is important that they can choose the path that is right for them and their families without having the additional worry of financial uncertainty. We will continue to carefully consider any specific proposals from the FBU on the potential for any new legislation surrounding compensation and protection. However, certain aspects of the health and safety legislation are reserved and specific proposals would be required so that they can be assessed against legislative competence, but I am clear that I will work with the United Kingdom Government on that, should we get to that position. My officials will also continue to investigate the current status of occupation recording and we will look at options and procedures to see if the proposed changes are feasible. I know that capital resources are indeed very tight specifically this year and we have ensured that that will be protected at the level that it is, but I am going to continue to discuss capital requirements with SFRS, including looking at a degree of state rationalisation to ensure that fire stations are located where they are most needed to cover risks in our communities and to allow additional investment to be made in remaining fire stations, while keeping this research forefront in my mind. I again thank Maggie Chapman for the opportunity to discuss this issue and for members for their considered contributions from across the chamber. For my retired firefighter uncle, forever known to his watchmates as Dark Cloud for his very sunny disposition and for all current and future firefighters rest assured that this is an issue that I am keenly focused on and I look forward to working with the FBU on this matter at the meeting that I am going to have with him on 1 February. Thank you very much indeed minister. That concludes the debate and I suspend this meeting of parliament albeit very briefly until 2 p.m.