 Thank you everyone for being here tonight. My name is Betsy Koh. I'm in Chicago and I've been a wiki tree member. Well, like many people I joined and then I sort of got intimidated and I backed off for a while. I would say that I've really been active since very late 2020. And some of you may know what I do in real life is I'm a musician. I'm a flutist. And one of the things we have in the music world is something called a master class, which is when somebody comes up on stage with a teacher and basically they have a lesson in front of a whole audience. And that way everybody gets to learn. You know, the person on stage but also the people who are just observing. The place where that and so that was sort of my vision for this, the place where the analogy breaks down is that I am in no way a master of wiki tree. I am maybe a little bit ahead of some of you or behind some of you. I do love to do wiki tree. A good day for me is when I get to do a little wiki tree. So I've learned much more than I knew two years ago and I have done the Scotland Project's Tartan Trail, which was an immense learning experience. So the idea is I hope that everybody or some of you have some really specific questions where you'd be willing to say, hey, could we pull up this profile? And then you tell us, Smith, one, two, three, four. I'm having trouble adding this person's spouse. And then we would work through it together. So, and I also want to thank Ayoan for being here with me as a co-host and more of a master than I am. Oh, I don't know. There's so much on wiki tree. It's hard to be a master of it all. Yeah. Before we begin, I have a generic question. Does wiki tree have like a mentoring program? Because I'm ready to add a bunch of stuff, but I've got it all on ancestry.com. And it's like, it wants everything from familysearch.org. And it's not, it's not all there. So is there, if I asked a question, would somebody say, hey, yeah, there's a mentoring program and somebody could be tied up to me? Yes. There are a couple of ways for you to get guidance, Ruth. One would be, I mean, for example, if a lot of your profiles were all in a specific area, you could join a project and get connected with that group of people. And if they had like a, something like the Scotland Project Tartan Trail, you could do that. You can, you probably were paired up with, you were greeted by somebody, am I right? Yes, I was greeted by somebody and I read through everything. My biggest thing is though, I'm ready to start these profiles, but I don't wanna screw this up completely and then end up redoing everything. I don't understand, do they self-form or what happens? Okay, would you be willing to let us work through one of them together? That this is perfect. I mean, this is exactly the sort of thing that we were hoping to do. And to just touch on something you said, not everything has to be from family search. I mean, it's wonderful and I love the fact that you can look at a record and then do copy citation and then there it is, but you can also draw from other sources. You would just have to learn how to cite them. Family search is the easiest, but. Yes, that's what I figured out, which is why I'm not happy because most of my information is not from there. Right, right. Well, would you be willing to be our first? Come up on the stage and give us like. Oh my gosh, that's what I was planning. Drop my water. Maybe somebody else has something better. I'm ready to look up things. Okay. All right, Steve, what you got? I got the page ready to go. I mean, no, I'm looking up for other people. So if you tell me who it is, I will pull it up right now. That's somebody messaged to chat, or am I? I just can't figure out how to, I'm just on screen, not a multitude. So I can't, I'm just not even gonna figure out how to tell you where to start. I just know I have this information and it doesn't want me to duplicate it. It wants me to find it somewhere and I'm just thinking if I work somehow with somebody, it would go smoothly. Right, right. Well, could you tell us, cause what I can do is I can pull up some of the pages you're looking at and screen share them and then we can look at them together. Are you working on one specific WikiTree profile right now? If I click to that, am I gonna lose you? Probably not. Or you could put the profile number ID in the chat. I'm in the same situation as Ruth where I've got a lot of people in ancestry and I was wondering if there's some way that I could bring them over to WikiTree because WikiTree is a lot more universal I find than ancestry and I'm really hesitated in trying to put all these profiles and I have quite a few people, a lot of family lines. But I'd be very happy if there were some kind of a tutorial for people like Ruth and myself that really have things over in ancestry is kind of a step-by-step. How do we get stuff out of ancestry? How do we copy the records and things that we already have over there and that we can put them on WikiTree? That would be really helpful. Yeah, I've done a lot of searches. So I put up my somehow like... Oh, I see it. Montgomery 139. So he's my grandfather's grandfather. Okay. Can I ask, is this how we... This is Deborah, sorry. Is this how we use JEDCOM? Is that one way of transferring it across? Good. Eoin, do you want to talk about JEDCOMs? Yeah, and I'm thinking maybe it would be good to have a separate thing about JEDCOMs because that's probably a lot of questions that people have and we could go... I can make a short one or something and we could kind of go through it because it is different on WikiTree than it is with a lot of other sites. But on Ancestry, you can export a JEDCOM out of your tree there and then upload it to a country. So that's one way that you can move it over. The tricky part is that we have a 5,000 person limit on JEDCOMs. So if you have a lot more than that, then you would need to split your JEDCOM which from Ancestry is a little more complicated because they don't let you do that. So there's some middle ground steps that you'd have to do for that which I don't have anything to be able to show that tonight but it's definitely something we could do a video for like for a better time. Okay, thank you. But there is definitely a way to move the information. And if I could comment too really quick. The issue with JEDCOM is of course the profiles don't look great. So I usually try to convince people to just upload their ancestors one by one because then they have complete control over the data that's being entered into those profiles. And it makes it a lot easier to handle the information once it's been created. It's a lot easier to know what's been cited and so forth. Just JEDCOM creates a lot of, I don't know what's the right work junk on the profiles. So that's something I would stray away from unless you already had everything added to Ancestry and you literally had thousands of people on the JEDCOM and it's like the most efficient way for you to do it. And even then I would encourage to split into much smaller JEDCOMs just because of the way our process works. You kind of go through and review everything and compare if the profiles are already on the QTRI. So if you upload one that has 4,000 people, you're gonna spend a fair amount of time going through that. So small chunks is really the best way to move things over. Yeah, I'm in the pretty fortunate situation that my, I started on Ancestry but my Ancestry tree is relatively small. I know people have thousands and thousands and I'm in the hundreds. And I just have been transferring them over manually and I find that it's a good opportunity to review my research. And I do a lot of flipping back and forth between Ancestry where you can look at the census records and family search where you can easily copy the citation and then I put it in WikiTree. Does everybody know, first of all, can everybody see the profile I've screen-shared, Ruth's Montgomery? Herbal? Yeah. Yeah. This is a really good feature that I didn't learn about for a while. It's down at the bottom on the right, this roots search thing. Are people familiar with that? Have you used it? You can't get it to work. You can't get it to work. Okay. So, well, I use it a lot. Ever since I found out about it, I use it a lot. So just click on it and then I almost always go to family search. Can you just do that for me? Yeah. Sometimes I have to log in, re-log in with my credentials. It always logs me out. Yeah, me too. It asks me for 19 and what's that? A and do you know why that would be? For your ID number, that would be your WikiTree ID. You just put in the number. No, I'm logged in. Even if you're logged into a WikiTree, when you go to a root search, it's still going to ask for your ID. It's something like an API client. It's like a separate tool. I'm just going to try it out. Yeah. So that's a really nice, quick way to get to results to your person. I'm going to go back. And Ruth, when you're ready, if you want to, if you want to ask us like what you said, you are afraid of making a mistake. And by the way, don't worry. I mean, things can get, anything can be reversed and undone. Nothing irreverible. So the interesting thing is somebody's filled this out since I put this in because I was trying to figure out how to make a biography for him. And I don't know what's going on here. I'll also just say, Triva, I see your hand. We'll come to you in just a second. Well, it's useful in this square here that you can see Sandra Emmons. And it was the last person who did something. You can also go to the changes on any profile. And you can see everything that's been done. So since you did something on August 7th, Sandra did a couple of things on the 12th. Oh. Interesting. Yeah. Maybe Sandra, someone you want to collaborate with. Could be a cousin of yours. Yeah. Yeah. Could be. And the funny thing is. This guy had a brother born. Several years before with the same name. Yeah, they often do that if they die. If the first son dies. I have a picture of his gravestone and I'm wondering how much trouble I'm going to be in when I try and add him. Of the. You mean of the other one with the same name. Exactly. Different years, but same name. He died. Even the middle name is the same. Yeah, everything was. I think there is actually probably three kids named this. But I don't have confirmation of a third. Well, when you go to add a new private profile, you always get a list of close things that might be a duplicate. And if you are sure that they are completely separate people, then you can say, no, you should check the box to say, yes, I have, I have examined this and no, it's not the same person. And then it will allow you to create another profile with this, even with the same name. Because I mean the name will be the same, but the dates will be different. Presumably life, you know, the timeline and the places are going to be different. So has this person who's modified this? Have they added links to these? Well, let's look at what what they did. So again, it's changes. So. She added his mother. So she created his mother. And then. She edited the biography, although the biography still looks sparse, but oh, just by adding sources. And then edited. She edited the marriage. So would you, would you like to see how to, you said you were at a loss as to how to do the biography? Do you want to, do you know how to edit a profile? I'm not. I'm just, I'm very new to this stuff. And I find that's okay. That's not too obvious. Yeah. So again, this sort of bar up here is very helpful. So you would go to edit. And then this is your opportunity up at the top to make any changes. Maybe, maybe I'm just hypothetically, maybe you need to change his middle name. You can do that. All of that stuff up here. Oh, maybe he was born on February 2nd. You can make that change. It's best if you can, if you're certain to, to, to like you, like it's certain on the birthday. If you're certain he was born in South Carolina, that would be good to, to click that. And then coming down. And that's where your biography is. And so what I, what I like to do is, is you can do sources two ways. You can have a list down here. Or you can do inline citations. I'm, what I'm going to do. You know, when do you think it's okay if we use the find a citation for the death? So, so, okay. We want to, we want to back up this, this fact that he passed away in 1988. So I put my cursor there. And I also grab this, copy that. Okay. And then I go site my source. And then I paste that in there. Now I can, I can get rid of this because now we've Make sure you have the, the reference code in there too. The reference code. The I'm trying to describe symbols now. I could type it up. Let me type it in. If you look under the hot sources section. Is it there? Okay. And here's the thing before you. Well, first of all, we could say, you always have to say what you're doing. So we're improving the bio. But if you want to see how it's going to look in the end, go to preview. And then that's going to create another box below. And you can see now, Oh, he passed away in 1888 with this one. So now we have like a footnote type sort of citation. Where is it? Okay. So I'm going to add the code. To be able to get it to populate. Under the sources section, just copy what. Steven pasted into the chat. I believe that's the trigger. So put it underneath the header for sources above Alabama select marriages. And it should generate it in a bullet form. Okay. All I see from Steve in the chat. Is the references. Yeah. Copy that. And then under the sources heading. So I've got to double check it. No, I don't think that's correct. I think it was listed there. Okay. Oh, of course. Yes. Yes. I've done a lot of wiki markup. Thank you. Yes. No, that's it. Make sure that's accurate. Of course. Yeah. If you're ever. If you're wondering. Explain that all again, please. Okay. it adding adding your own sources yes okay so if there is nothing on there at all at the moment yes well you actually you have to have at least one source to create a profile that's required required so hopefully how do you source how do you okay well it's it's part it's one of the fields when you create a profile so and then when the profile is created that source will automatically appear maybe we should create a profile from scratch I think you should idea okay all right you well let me just show you so I made that little change thanks to Steven and so now we preview again and maybe I didn't do it right let me double check now this is why you preview things is it the backslash because I can't figure this out now I have to look at my profiles it says on the right side of the screen Betsy that you're on do you see where it says how to add sources on the right side yes go scroll down a little bit it's got it right there right okay does everybody see where my cursor is oh I put it at the front it should be a forward slash in the back that's what it is I got it reversed space and there's a space see even so I'll say to everybody who's newer to wiki tree there's there are a lot of little fussy things like this that you just you get used to and that's a rookie here yes there we go okay so there are our footnote type citation backing up the fact of the fact about his death and then the rest of the sources so you could do the same thing if you had the actual link to the document for all these other ones like I don't see like the link for the 1850 or the 1860 but I I know yeah this time I actually have these things mm-hmm I think this would be easy to find on on family search and then you could do that copy citation well what's funny is he comes up as Bill on one of them and I'm like I don't even know where the name Bill came from but it's right thing so it's confounding me yeah I mean people sometimes from census to census it's a little maddening but they their names do change sometimes it's a middle name that gets used or a nickname it could have been the information could have been provided by a neighbor you know weird things happen I have a lot of that stuff like nothing actually looks like it matches but I know it's right mm-hmm think you've got to remember a lot of people are illiterate at the time they didn't go to school exactly um then you would just do a full safe and now you can see that if you go to changes you'll you'll see that I edited the biography I didn't want to ignore tree are you still there I you had a hand raised and I'm sorry it took so long to answer your question no that's okay when you were talking about Roots search you said you'd be able to see something and I didn't catch what you were saying and so I was trying to ask the question about that repeated but that's okay I'll just watch the video well maybe what what we can do is as we look at other programs profiles we can do that again because that's that's this Roots to Roots search feature is very useful and then then we'll walk through the process again I threw a link to what I worked on yesterday we want to use as an example I provided a link oh sure okay a little simpler than this one in terms of citations and biography I fleshed out a biography on mine every time if I create a new profile yeah there you go yeah and I have one we can look at to that I'm working on at the moment Steve you want it since this is yours you want to talk us through it yeah so this is one of the profiles I created I was researching some German families in Wisconsin actually some cheese makers are connected to these people so now we have this profile I've connected it to the world tree so they are now connected and we can see some DNA connections in the corner now that these people are related to them and I just I like the biography a lot because it allows me to go through step by step really establish a timeline of what's happening you know get the major events down try to cite them as I come across them and then of course the sources I also like to highlight with some special bold text just indicate what that source is so like for the German one you can't read it but it says this verb so we know it's the verb record and then the other ones the burial which I mean it's a find a grave which isn't the greatest source but at least it tells you where they're buried so that's something I can use for that if I want to cite the depth I would want to actually go for a death record in that case for example but that's just the example of a simple sort of starter profile obviously you can get a lot more bigger and convoluted beyond that you know with images and things like that but just a good example of something I just started like literally yesterday and this this profile is only a day old and it's just waiting to get expanded great and with your sources here were you using that ancestry there's a that app that it's like an add-on an extension for no so the citation for family search was just copy and pasted from the document on family search and then the find a grave I just used the citation at the bottom of the page for that oh okay I see yeah I had to manipulate it a little bit to get it to look nice but I don't really use the citation app and I haven't well I haven't used in a while but I have it installed if I wanted to use it because everybody can see up can everybody circle a little one up there that's an extension that's really good for a when do you know it's the wiki tree sorcerer yeah wiki tree sorcerer yeah that might be a little bit advanced for right now but yeah that's handy I want to get to a couple of questions Judy you had your hand up first and then Kathleen yes it's more of an etiquette question than anything some of my ancestors records have been put out there by Jed comes by other people and I have found errors in them as I'm sure people find errors in my work I have emailed them directly through wiki tree and not gotten responses I've put notes on them about and basically what I've asked them because the errors aren't sourced I've asked them if they have sources I've gotten no response I have put notes out there about what I found that contradicts what they have and where I have sources I put those sources out there at what point is it okay to just go change stuff I you know it's very frustrating because I'd like to see accurate information out there yeah I mean if you've made a good faith effort to communicate you know generally I've found people to be very responsive but but not always and so if you really have tried then you made the good faith effort and I would say if you have credible sources to back it up then go ahead and make the change okay and and there was there is one person who has a number of profiles for my family and somewhere I saw and and I may be misremembering this but I remember seeing a note somewhere where he said if anybody would like to take over these profiles email me and I did that and have not heard anything back and is there you know I don't know you know people get ill people die people move on to other interests is there any way to take over a profile you know once somebody else has it but isn't responding Aaron there is yeah it's actually we have an unresponsive profile manager process and there is a help page for that that I can link to in the chat but basically it just involves leaving a comment waiting so many days you know just trying to contact and then you can fell an unresponsive profile manager for it goes to our team members and we'll try and reach out and contact them and either work with them if they answer or if they don't then you can let us know which profiles you want to manage oh super and we can take care of that very good thank you just posted it right there thank you both for your answer I try Kathleen did you have a question yes thank you Steven if I could if we could scroll back up to the biography on this new report right now you have a reference for the birth and a reference for the burial and let's say you found the marriage record if you add a footnote to that does the burial automatically change to footnote number three or do you have to do some judging oh it's just going to push it down so whatever order your citations are in the biography it'll automatically adjust the location of those in the sources field so if you get cited in the first line so even if it's not chronological like you needed to cite you know something from the tombstone that stated something on it that wasn't available anywhere else it might show up as the first source even though you know it's like the last thing that happened in their existence was they you know they died got a tombstone so it can be applied anywhere in the text and then it's just going to correspond to the order of the text okay great thank you another question I had was I'm doing some research in Canada and I'm starting to do some earlier research and so do I put the names of the places as they were known during that time period or as they were known today I would ask the time yeah a lot of times when you go to add a place as you start typing it in you'll get a pull down menu and you'll see you might see like three different listings for the place you want with date ranges and okay you would want to you know pick the date the date range that's appropriate for the event that you're your document okay thank you I can also comment on this too oh sorry oh no go ahead Steve so if you scroll to the top and you see the birth location you'll notice that it's referencing Prussia and Dütcherbund which I've written in German means German Confederation obviously that doesn't exist anymore but Germany didn't exist until 1871 so any dates before that I don't put Germany in I actually override it and I type in what the actual municipality was or country or entity at that time and and even before that if you go back to 1806 there wasn't even a German Confederation because Napoleon had invaded at that time it was the Holy Roman Empire so then that would have been you know the entity before that so I always try to put in the historical names of the places whenever possible when you do categorization though it's going to have the modern location because that's just how categorization is okay all ready thank you yeah and then one last question I had is um as I've been adding profiles I've been doing like birth you know the best resource for the birth you know the original for and for the marriage and for the death that type of a thing but yet I noticed when I'm looking at other profiles sometimes people have are putting on like five different birth records and you know I mean this five different references for the same or similar birth record or you know and the same thing I mean how much is is one good one enough or do you all like all that extra information on there um I I think more is always better but but sometimes um you know my my profiles if you look at all the profiles that I'm working on they're in different stages and some of them are really really complete with all the possible every source I could possibly find others are sparser and maybe I maybe I just have a dump of of of sources and I haven't really done a bio you know at the very least I always like to document have one source for birth marriage and death okay great well thank you for your thank you for answering these questions I appreciate it I'm I'm new and I'm just learning also thank you absolutely um Caroline oh hi um my questions about when you find profiles like whole families and um they've the biography is okay but the sources have got a lot of s and stuff after them that don't link to anything so I assume they come from Jed comms where they've fixed up the biography but um they haven't picked up the sources so there's no sources that I find that link to anything so can if I've got sources can I put them in and then delete all that stuff is that okay to delete it mm-hmm it is right yes yeah yeah any if it's just jumble that's not um a source that's going to lead anybody to anything then yeah okay and and then um would that qualify for the challenge the um sourcing challenge if not like they did have stuff there but it didn't link anywhere I'm actually for this the monthly sorcerer's challenge yes yeah no no the monthly one yeah I haven't looked at their um the rules for recently but I I would have to check with them right okay I know they did a little bit different I know their rules are a little different than like the source of thunder my kitchen I just don't remember off the top of my head right okay so maybe I need to go back and look at that yeah it should it should say it on their page right okay I thought about I I want to say yes it would because you are I think that's where it's different is that like with wiki tree if there's stuff there we consider a source but I think for the sorcerers challenge they want the actual links and stuff so I think it would but I'm not 100% sure right okay thanks yeah and there are there are whole crews of wiki treers who spend a lot of their time cleaning up profiles like that yeah I I enjoyed doing the cleaning but I just wasn't sure about taking out that that stuff I mean when it's a full GEDCOM download and it's on the whole things rubbish then I don't mind you know using that GEDCOM cleaning thing um but you can't do that if they've already changed the biography right right yeah like like Steve said non-verbally yes yeah lots of cleaning wax on wax off wax off thank you sure uh Kathy Kathy B uh yes hi um I'm also a new ish to wiki tree I started in April and I'm glad we're talking about bios tonight because that was my main question I've I've come across several different kind of formats and you guys may have already answered my question by showing it with the footnotes but I've also seen something with like a table of contents and then taste you down to other parts of the bio and then I've seen a few some of which I did myself because I didn't know how to do this and now I do where I'm just putting in as many sources as I have and then I was going to figure it out later um so is there a preferred format I mean ultimately at the very end of the day the inline sources like what we were showing you how to do is um the ideal but don't be afraid like if you just have a list of sources that's awesome like don't feel pressure to have to have it formatted and you know because eventually someone will will come along and probably tell me I just want to show about about um the oh I don't want to be on I let me I don't want to be on your by the way I don't care well all right let me just yeah okay I'll do it and then I won't save it so do you see how under sources we have the two equal signs and then sources and then so like sometimes you might want to add something like research notes which are a big thing on wiki tree especially if there's something where you know it's still up in the air some site sources still need to be located there's a discrepancy um so that's how you would do that if you preview it then you'll see you've got the heading and I can add whatever magic yeah take that out just hit the cancel button yeah yeah and also let me show this is this is handy if you decide you don't want to do anything you know just return to profile without saving and then nothing nothing changes and while we were talking about uh table contents biographies I had two more links to some of my ancestors that I did work a lot on so people want to see more complex uh profiles you know the the first one is intermediate and I'd say the second one is much more developed because he's kind of a brick wall for me so I've thrown literally everything at the the wall to try to break it down and you can look at those if you want to just uh Sheila um I was in family search where I back a couple of years ago I started to put in uh one of my my tree lines on the maternal side and then I I haven't had really very much time and I found wiki tree and I thought oh this sounds fantastic so I came over to wiki tree and got bogged down again with a time constraint and but what I went then I went back to family search about a month ago and I was astonished to see that the family tree that various people have been working on it and they they're somehow over there you can merge trees or whatever and suddenly my tree goes back to like 1066 or something and I'm thinking wow there's some really interesting people and the like my great great grandmother I have a source for her I know she existed and everything but somebody has carried it away back a lot further I would love to be able to is it legal to take the information that somebody else has found and posted on another website and post it somewhere else I mean a source is a source I mean it's you know I mean if you believe yeah it's not like she's asking like if she did a if she copied the all the people that have been added to the tree yeah is it legal to to take somebody else's research and all their work and add it to say in wiki tree which is really a world tree I don't know how that works I would love to be able to extend the tree somewhere other than on family search I have two thoughts on that one like Betsy was just saying a source is a source so if they have your great great grandmother and they have a birth record for her there's no reason why you can't add your great great grandmother and her birth record if it's someone's like written research or their photos or something you know that's maybe not like a record source you don't want to just copy that over no I wouldn't do that but it's really it's all the steps they found all the records somebody else has found all the records for these people that go back a long way and they have they found the records I haven't but they're connected to my one of my relatives yeah records I mean records are records available for anybody so just the nature of genealogy collaborative genealogy isn't it yeah we're not all going to be able to do the work ourselves yeah exactly oh that's that's helpful to know because I've got you know I've sort of stopped doing things because I got stuck in I said but somebody else has done a lot of work and there there are the records they're out there I just hadn't found them myself but you have to know they're real well that's then I'd have to do the research to be sure they really are real for sure but anything that's been digitized it looks pretty it looks pretty real unless I found something else that was digitized that had the same name and the same dates but it was a different record I might question then whether even whether my record was the correct record that's genealogy yes I hope that I hope to have more time to work on this because that's absolutely fascinating it's a lot of fun yeah sorry go ahead oh sorry I was gonna say the the facts are not intellectual property but the stories that are written from the facts can be intellectual property and the also the digital images you might want to check and you might want to go back to the original source of the image and get you know and take your own image from that instead of using someone else's photo which might also be an intellectual well I think that in one case on on not on wiki tree because I have very little up there where I was astonished to see where I have the original old black and white photo of my mother and I doubt very much that this other person who is a distant cousin would have the same thing but she's put her name on it and I thought that's odd and she's posted it on that website as you know yeah that happens unfortunately yeah that a lot of that happens on ancestry that happens all the time yeah well that's that's where it happened and so I mean I could write to her and say do you happen to have an original copy of that photo if not I do but to do it politely so that she would attribute it to me as being my photo and not hers I mean otherwise I'd have to go into photo elements and and and say property of Sheila you know type of thing put a kind of digital watermark on it of some sort and I'm wondering whether should I be doing that for my old photos yes is it going to prevent people from using them no it won't prevent them but it'll have you yeah you can order a takedown yeah but also he posted it on ancestry they are allowed to use it well that's what's happening yeah it's part of your agreement I'm grateful that we keep tree is is pretty strict about photos and and you know we're not supposed to put up anything unless it's I mean well if it's a photo of a person if I see something on ancestry I always get written permission from the ancestry user I explain what you wiki tree is I say I'm doing this profile I provide the link may I put your profile up there the photo up there and then when I do if I get the permission which I usually do then I will credit it um posted um with permission of ancestry user so-and-so yeah exactly yeah thank you very much that answers my question and I was just gonna add uh I don't deal with ancestry I stay away from it because these can be situations but if I was going to say uh do anything regarding find a grave so people take photos uh for gravestones and upload and define a grave I will not use that photo I will link to it obviously in my sources but I will go out on my way to take my own photo of the gravestone ensuring that I have the copyright of it so then I can upload that photo to wiki tree and I know for a fact that it is my photo so that's a different situation to get around it if you're concerned about running into you know other information or images that are somebody else's images but that might involve an extra work that you might not want to do so it just depends on the person really what what happens when you've taken a photo and somebody from find a grave stole it you bring it up to them report it to find a grave yeah I have that I have that situation where I took a photo of the family thing and somebody else took it and stuck it in their tree because they're related to me and they they they don't even have the right information which is even more compelling oh oh mine it's the right information so they don't even know where this graveyard is it's in a freaking swamp let's see uh I'm I'm sorry if I mispronounced your name Lorraine yes Lorraine I have a couple questions the first one is about images and is there some guideline on sizing I was surprised when I put up my first pictures how large they showed up I I thought they were just sort of standard jpeg size and all of a sudden they're huge on the on the biography do you like us yeah uh a profile id um Campbell two seven one one four okay you're gonna look it up what was the number again two seven one one four okay so if you look at um go back up and click on my father or my mother okay looks normal to me yeah scroll scroll down okay so these are okay this size I don't need to yeah I mean it's sort of it seems proportional to the text how are you viewing the website um pc okay yeah that that's the standard image bar so they they all show up that size in the that side of the page and then the text is is fixed in nature on the left hand side of the screen to about that width that seems okay you know you know I think my cousin edited these because they were bigger before and the caption was below the picture did that format change you looking at the images tab hmm this might be different see where it says engagement photo clearance I mean that that type that caption was below the picture I mean this was below and it was tax not a link I don't know why it's a link click on the link and see where it goes oh just do the details yeah did they do something anyone I I'm not sure I don't have to have seen my shoes looking like websites always updating right yeah that's kind of interesting looks like looks like you're the one who's done the most recent things yeah um the one place where I'm on wiki tree where I'm used to manipulating image size is when you're inserting it within within uh a poster on it's a free free space page and that's that's different but when you're just putting it on a profile I think it just it's standard it doesn't matter there's no guidelines like try to make it x pixels by x pixels yeah I looked at our photo I looked at our photos epic here to see if we have anything about size and we don't and I I think whatever size you upload the photo I was like on this screen the images tab they're going to show it all different kinds of sizes um so you might have one that looks really big on here like see the marriage license right how big that is but when you go to the profile they're all going to be you know there's kind of a standard size for those on the side like see how much smaller the marriage license is there yeah so okay so that's interesting there was a change because it used to be like a photo caption and now it's a link so that's interesting okay um the other question I have is any advice on sources for birth and death records like without paying a county to look it up for you well um again I would I would really recommend the root search starting there um yeah I've looked at family search yeah if you don't have ancestry then family search is is probably your next best bet and their their election of records is is phenomenal yeah um are you not finding what you want there now and I'm you know I'm thinking that maybe the record was put up by somebody who is just adding stuff and if you have someone who for example isn't actually buried in a cemetery they were like cremated and thrown over the ocean or something there's not going to be a record except with the official death record right local cemetery here has a record of all cremations as well even if they're not buried there what so what is I'm just saying in their in their records of burials they also have a record of cremations like local county records no this is the actual cemetery so they do they've got all the cremations in there and say buried elsewhere oh okay thank you doesn't mean it's everywhere of course great um gee how's her her goes um jean jean jean hello can you hear me okay yes okay so this is just um right alongside with that um so uh I looked up some vital records let's say uh priest whatever in uh wisconsin and um so what I did was I cited um instead of paying $15 just to get the record which I can't do oh I know that yeah so I wrote down yeah there you go uh I wrote down the reference details you know the county volume number page number a microfilm reel uh index volume uh the sequence number and then collection and I wrote the um I copied the um each uh the you know url and location that Wisconsin historical society library second floor Madison Wisconsin and I don't remember which one I use this for I was trying to find that but um I would do a you know a sighting on that is that would that work uh lights and lights too sounds like it would yeah something like you described like it sounds like you're describing how someone else would be able to go and find it yeah as long as I yeah just put everything and put down yeah um the other thing you can do I'm just going to go to my dad's profile um you can say um uh like his naturalization certificate and his death certificate um I didn't necessarily want to post them right and so I just said um you know I have it it's right you're not actually allowed to post it because the municipality has roles against reposting them right yeah like Wisconsin tell me not to copy it when I was very very new to wiki tree and I was doing my dad's profile I put up his death certificate as a picture and then I thought no that's not a good idea yeah so um that that's what you described um Jean sounds sounds very thorough okay good thank you sure um oh wow well if we wanted I was going to say we would try and create a profile but we're coming up on it on an hour so um so we plan if if people want next time what we can do is we can create a profile from scratch and walk through that why don't we plan on starting with that next time yeah yeah excellent I think that would be a awesome idea I mean you guys have opened my eyes and I think I know kind of where to go but I would really like to watch more I don't want to just start all this and have to redo it for sure I'm so glad it was helpful and I think when I was when I was new the best thing that was helping me was on the Saturday YouTube livecasts they would put up a lot of profiles and just seeing other profiles was no helpful yeah if you go and watch those you'll get to see a lot of different things and they kind of inadvertently will show you different features of wiki tree while they're clicking through things so it's another good place to just go and be able to learn yeah great well thank you all for being here tonight any any last last questions quick questions just thank you oh seems like we could do a good thing yeah job everybody thanks people for coming like we we were hoping that we get a good crowd with the questions and we did so yeah at one point I saw that we had 43 people yeah which is great yeah so please please come back this will be happening the first Thursday of every month same time same bad channel same bad channel