 Good afternoon, my name is Alex Fraser, and I'm producing director at Bucks County Playhouse welcome to Lambertville Hall This is the Playhouse's Education Center just across the river from New Hope, Pennsylvania Where the Playhouse is in Lambertville, New Jersey We're delighted today to be talking with Kier DeLay and Maya Dillon Who are starring in the Playhouse production of Ongold and Pond by Ernest Thompson Welcome Kier and Maya, and thank you so much for being with us today. This is the first time that we are Trying a conversation with I hope it becomes a series and talking with Artists who perform at the Playhouse about their work and about working at the Playhouse And so we're excited to To get going so tell me about your first exposure to Ongold and Pond Well my first exposure was having seen the film But so long ago I could barely Remember the plot. I mean I kind of vaguely remembered it, but for all practical purposes working on the play was like it was a New play completely for me And Maya I was there opening night at the Hudson Guild in a little 80-seat theater where it had its very first performance Wow opening night. How fantastic is that? Why were you there opening night because I've done six plays at the Hudson Guild? I'm not sure I'd done all six by then, but I had done da which was my first Broadway play which transferred from the Hudson Guild to Broadway won four Tony Awards And I think Ongold and Pond was the next year. So that's why I was there. That's great Kier had a nice conversation with our playwright with Ernest Thompson And I don't remember this because I just remember the play so clearly I loved it But he said that Tennessee Williams was in the audience sitting next to him Wow It was laughing convulsively throughout. Wow. Isn't that amazing. Yeah, isn't that amazing? So when you're approaching a role that you're familiar with or you may have seen before Does does that influence you in any way? It's yes, but basically you steal from the best So you steal what's useful and then make it your own you'd if it's I think Lawrence Olivier always said that steal from the best But you really bring your own Sensibility and certainly with us being married This is not our relationship, but being married for 16 years There are a lot of things that married couples Just naturally in a relationship. There's a comfort level that I think we bring to the play That you can love somebody at the same time that you want to kill them and When he's several times doing the play says I think you're trying to kill me and I say I've thought about it For my point of view since I hardly had remembered the film. I think it was an advantage I didn't have to come in with preconceived ideas, but could start kind of exploring from scratch and with the help of Johnny Silverstein who this our great director Who pointed the way and was very helpful because the the characters very different than than I am in real life. I mean He's a thank God But that's kind of fun. I mean it's sort of like when you When you play a villain for example, not that this man is a villain anything, but but just Just to choose an overt example if you play a villain you don't try to find the evilness you find what it is You like about the villain if you're gonna play Iago you can't you know quietly Underneath it all some of the society is a horrible person you have to find all reasons why you like him And that's the way you make a character come alive. So you don't get some kind of cut out version of it So it's an interesting journey to explore someone who is as different as Norman is For me, it's been fun. That's always a challenge in a play It's interesting that you say that because it reminds me that I find that the actors who are known for playing The most evil characters the most villainous characters are always the most charming delightful wonderful people as are you and I think that is a Very same thing and the converse often those who play the sweetest most wonderful Characters are not yeah, and I think it's very interesting how that Dicotomy of being very different from the characters that you play Do you do you think Ethel is close to you Maya? Do you find a lot about her that is familiar? No, she has a lot more energy than I have First seeing where I am You know setting up all said, you know rolling up the rugs taking up it No, that has a lot more energy than I have I Think Ethel is far more optimistic than I am. I'm not a pessimist But she has a I wish I had her sunny side Where she's always looking on the bright side and always looking for The the good in every situation When we rehearsals Johnny said to me our director He was he wondered why I tell that story about The red scooter that you know, I wanted for my fourth birthday and I say My father told me I couldn't have one He said I'd understand when I was older and I say I'm a lot older now and I'm afraid I still don't understand but he gave me Elmer my doll and Elmer and I became the best of friends that contrast and I realized just as I'm doing it The reason it's in the play I think is that's the contrast between Ethel and her daughter is That Ethel wanted that red scooter But she was happy to have the doll that she got instead and that doll became her best friend How interesting and I say to my daughter, you know don't you think everyone looks back at her childhood with some bitterness and regret about something and That to me that's the bitterness and regret was that I didn't get that red scooter But it didn't ruin my life and I think that's her big message to her daughter is you take what life gives you and You make the most of it and you can't Keep hashing over what didn't happen and what you didn't get? I think that's one of the things that impresses me most about this play and now watching it many times There's nothing gratuitous in that play everything that is in there. There's a purpose. There's a reason there's a foreshadowing You know, it's so interesting the medications delivered early in the play just to make sure that the idea of the medic I mean everything in the play really comes home to roost Yeah, and in an extraordinary way. What was it? What did you discover about the play? Well, you don't have a strong memory of it. What did you discover about the play? What was the most interesting thing that has been revealed to you through the performance and rehearsal of the play? I Did not remember because this was a long time ago. This was 1979 seems like only yesterday I Remember it being funny. I don't remember The depth of this play and And of course when I was watching it in 1979 I was in my 20s, so I was not relating to these old people on stage I just laughed ha ha ha this play deals with a lot of Important issues to people who are facing getting older and you know, what might happen if you lose your partner and It those those are the things that resonate now, which are Beautifully explored in this play Norman is My character Norman is consumed by gallows humor and the fact he's reaching 80 He starts he's 79 as the play opens and has his 80th birthday during the course of the play and I'm very close to the age of this character the difference is that Norman is consumed with thoughts of his own demise and Including his humor his humor is so tied in with what's why say it's gallows humor But there's no way of reaching my age that you don't start thinking, you know, there isn't that much time left I'm in good health Fortunately, and I'm doing pretty well given how old I am, but nonetheless there are those thoughts, so You know, I think of the her the human personality This is true for anyone, but this is the actor's job is to choose which color out of the rainbow works for that role We're we all have red Blue green and all the other colors of the rainbow some of us have a stronger red You might have a stronger blue. She might have a stronger orange, but we have those colors And it's up to us as actors to decide which color is the main color for that character And then to go inside yourself and find that aspect even if it's not a strong Color in yourself as it is in the character and concentrate on that. So that's kind of the job that we have I'm just very happy unlike Norman who is a real grump and a grouch Kier wakes up happy every morning. So that's a great gift. It is The other thing I mentioned because you alluded at the beginning of our conversation And that is the advantage of working with one's wife or some friend that you've had people that you work with before is that normally your cast in a play and you meet the rest of your cast members on that first day and it's a little bit of Shadowboxing, you're not you can't we are all a little bit. How are we going to get along a little defensive? Whereas when you either are married to your partner on stage or have worked together many times Which I have for example with Elizabeth Ashley. I've worked with her for about not with about nine times You're so ahead of the game. You don't have to go through that shadow boxing Period where are you trying to say is this person gonna trip me up or not? Or are we gonna get along? That's gone. That's you're so far ahead and given the fact we only had Two weeks rehearsal that little that was very important. I just have to say that I saw you all do Katana Hatton roof speaking of Elizabeth Ashley two years ago in Provincetown and Extraordinary performances and an extraordinary play and I know that you had you ever done the play before But you of course famously start opposite Elizabeth Ashley in the Broadway revival In 1974 1974 playing the Sun and so what was it like approaching a different part in the same play playing your own father it was a it was a magical experience because In the production I did with Elizabeth Fred Gwynn played Big Daddy Fred Gwynn was quite brilliant I happen to think I think his Performance was even better than Burl Ives who created the role on my first Broadway play was with Burl Ives So I know I had the experience of working with an actor, which was fine. He was a good actor But Fred Gwynn was special in this role and so when I came to this role never thinking I would ever be cast in it I'm not obvious casting for Big Daddy, but I so admired what Fred did that I My says you shouldn't mention this too often because it's gonna sounds like you're not Doing the performance yourself. Well, I did do the performance myself, but emotionally I channeled Fred Gwynn and I grew a very large beard. Why cuz he had one and I also did a voice I'm I played the whole row way down here And that's because Fred Gwynn's voice was way down there I'd never done a role like that before with that voice. So it was a magical experience. I almost felt like His spirit came down and under my body and I just walked out and there was it was a remarkable experience Yeah, I know I said this before but it's so similar Rosemary Harris who'd originally played the daughter in The Royal Family on Broadway did the Broadway revival and played the her own mother in In effect, and I think at first she said she couldn't do it the memory of Avila Gallien was so extraordinary in her mind and She finally was persuaded by Ian Kaufman and it was a Beautiful performance and she said it was a tribute all she could do is offered up as a tribute That's that's that's that's a good word. I wish I knew it was a tribute to Fred Yeah So I'm so curious and I'm sure this question has been asked so many times But you have gone back and forth between film and theater so much of your career And I'm I'm I'm curious what brings you back to the theater and I applaud you for coming back as often as you do because we lose so Many how I'm who go and don't come back because the idea of eight perform They'd rather sit in a trailer than do eight performances a week, which I don't understand But but but how do you find it and what brings you back to the theater? There's a well There's a cliche that I've made up and it's oversimplified because I've had wonderful experiences in film. However The cliche is that Theater pays the soul and Film pays the pocketbook now. That's having said that I've had wonderful experiences in film, but there's something about I started doing theater in junior high and Then high school right near where we're where we're playing this play at the George School in Newtown, Pennsylvania Which isn't very far away and they had a remarkable drama program for a first for a high school level It was you could take it as a half unit subject and we did gals worthy and Shaw and Soroyan and that did acting exercise and I have no question that the seed was I didn't realize it then because I thought who Who would pay you have so much fun? It so it didn't occur to me to make make a profession out of it But I know looking back that that's where the seed was planted and that was live theater My early experience is profession with all live theater. There's nothing can match the experience of A lot of a live audience. There's something palpable even in silent scenes I like to describe the experiment with with the comedy is obvious because you hear the laughs But even in very serious scenes, there's something that I call the roar of silence that you feel that the silence is differ from night to night and You know every performance you're trying to get it right all over again You know you try not to imitate you try to recreate each night something you found before But maybe you find it a little different Whereas, you know film it's it's one take. I mean you do may you may do a number of takes But the editor's gonna choose one of them So it's like the same the exact same performance all the time every time you see the movie. Do you ever watch your films? Oh, yeah, I oh that's good because sure most performers I know when you ask like I always tease I teased Marcia Mason that we were gonna make her sit through a Marcia Mason film festival When she was here and she was like The worst nightmare of hell would be to have to sit through all of her films Well, I'm always curious to see how well how much I've achieved that I felt that I was doing at the time It's a learning experience to see yourself in film and you know, I'm I have had occasions Which where I wish that I hadn't not too often, but I remember there's a film I did John Houston was in it It was called decide which I played the Marquis decide I was filmed in Germany And I made the mistake of going to a film premiere in New York with a red carpet without having seen a private screening first I think I would have made my excuses. So anyway all I can tell you is The review and I don't remember a critic by the name of Wanda Hale She was the she was the first critic to use stars one two three or four Nobody has had done that until and she was the critic for the New York news Back then this would have been in the 60s, but she started which she was way before the 60s the 40s and 50s and into the 60s and Her review of the film described sitting behind Cure Delay as he got lower and lower and lower in his seat Does that tell you how I thought about the film? That's funny. So speaking of Bucks County. How Maya, how do you find the audiences here? You haven't had so many because we're all you're only in I think your fifth performance But so far, how would you describe wonderful and I have been stopped on the street because this is this is a wonderful little town Oh, this is the most charming location for its theater Right here on the river. It's gorgeous but I've been stopped on the street by people our age and by Teenagers 20 year olds who have stopped me to say hey, I loved your play How great is that tell me a story about somebody was sitting next to an older group of people. Oh, it's a funny story You tell it. Oh There was some people sitting actually behind some friends of mine for the Sunday Monday who were Complaining before the show started saying I don't want to see a play about old people then they were old They were age-appropriate and they were saying well, we don't have to stay You know if we can always walk we can always leave at the intermission. We don't have to sit Well, apparently they not only stayed they loved it. So well, I have to say we have a younger staff member who came to see it a little bit kind of like I'll make it through the first act He came up afterwards and just said I have to say And told me I kind of came trepidatious and I just loved it and he's not a theater person. So it was like a really Strong endorsement I think for your performances and for the whole cast and the play the play itself holds up It's not dated at all. I don't think so. I think this is a universal play about human relationships We just have another couple of minutes And so I just want to I The audience is so interesting to me It's the one thing you don't have in film and television and I'm just wondering in your first few performances What is what have they taught you about your performances or the play? Our director Johnny Silverstein has the greatest laugh. I've ever heard the character Charlie in the play Who's famous for his laugh has nothing on Johnny. He laughs He's the best audience but he tends to laugh at different things than the audience. I mean they overlap, but The audience is laughing. It's somewhat different places. So it's The audience teaches you how to pace the play, I mean Johnny pace the play but the audience is the last it's always the last character when you're doing live theater and They have taught us where Where the laughs are and because it's a very funny play, but also You can feel where the audience is with you and where In the scene with Christa when I slap her that gas The and I asked someone, you know, what's What are the most moving part to the play because I'm thinking it's I don't want to spoil it for anybody who hasn't seen it But in the last scene when there's some medical issues But I asked someone Actually, I think it may have been Johnny what what what are the what are the tugs at the heartstrings of the audience? And he said that scene with my daughter and also the kiss With Norman and Ethel There's something about the thing I love about that slap is that and is that I shouldn't say this bit Is that in script? Yes But it says if the actors feel brave enough that I could slap the table if I didn't feel brave enough to slap her But Christa said go for it and I think it's important but what's so wonderful about it is the is the Ethel immediately regrets it and and the warmth and love that comes from her immediately after that slap is So palpable and it's really a beautiful scene. There's so much Beautiful It's no wonder it's as the way he's complimented him Basically was telling him he's passing the mantle on to yes, he did he said that to him. Wow. Yeah, I'll give you another an example of Learning just a quick laugh that the top the audience Taught me it has taught me that works the play in the play There you I have an encounter with my daughter's new boyfriend whom she eventually marries and I kind of he's a dentist and I rake him over the coals at a certain point and he kind of interrogating him and So at the very end of the play Ethel my what Maya is on the phone with her daughter and But only she's on the phone with this dentist whose name is Bill and And she says who is this? First I don't know who I am to the phone and I start saying I'm fine. How are you and I have no idea who it is I find saying who is this and he says I said, oh bill. It's bill. So my lines has written our bill. Oh Bill so Johnny our director said When you finally realize which bill it is turn to the chair where I haven't given him a hard time and Well, he laughed every time I did it in rehearsal You can get a laugh at all from any audience that moment did not Maya gave me this idea of trying it and it's working. I'm now going bill. Oh Bill Want to see my teeth? That's great. That's wonderful. So we discovered the audience laughs so we know it works So in our last minute, I have to say as I was thinking of questions and now I haven't needed any of them You all are such natural Conversationalists, but I was I I thought well, what did James Lipton ask people on the Inside the actor studio, which I'm afraid I've never seen even one episode But I thought but I hate those questions But he asked the Proust questions at the end and I thought well I'm not going to do that, but I am curious in our final moments. Yeah What role have you not played that you would most like to play and Are there roles that you haven't done together that you would like to do? I'd love to do kind of hot tin roof again It was such a short when you do and maybe I'd love to do on Golden Bond again When you do it for three weeks, you know, I when I started in this business doing DA I did it for a year on Broadway and crime to the heart again I did it for a year and there's something fabulous about you can only do it with good material but both of those plays are brilliant plays and just and Just being able to dig deeper and deeper and make discoveries over the months. There's something so Fulfilling about that I can think of roles that now I can't play because I'm Beyond the age. Oh, I don't think that counts. I don't think that counts. No, well, I Love check off and and I would have liked to have done Sonya in Uncle Vanya, but I aged out so I guess I'll have to do the mother then Did three sisters. I sure did by Lynn Meadow. Yes, I was there. Maya and I worked together several times at a great distance but still early in our careers and I'm just remembering Yeah, who were the other two sisters Dianne Weas Dianne Weas and Lisa Baines Lisa Baines Yeah, Lisa Baines that was a great for Daniels was Andre. Wow Sam Waterston was Vershinin what a cast yeah, what a great cast yeah on East 73rd Street. Yeah How about you Kier? Well sounds like I'm not a very original person, but I gotta tell you I agree with Maya, I feel I Would love to get to do Big Daddy again because we how long did we do? I don't think we had as long as we do here Well, we did it at the Watt Theater the Welfleet Welfleet Harbor Actors Theater that started so we did it on the Cape We have three weeks there and then we had one week at the Tennessee Williams Theatre Festival in Provincetown So we did get to do it for a month But you know getting a taste of it. Oh, it's such a rich play and that I mean I would give anything To to do we have such a fabulous company and a fabulous director In fact Elizabeth is coming to see the show next week. Yeah, our director is coming. Yeah Great and well, that's our bell. So we are out of time. Thank you both so much Thanks for being here and sharing this with us and thank all of you and to our howl-round crew. Thank you so much Hey Great, how easy is that? Well, you're you have great ease too. You're easy. That was so much