 This week's episode is sponsored by Change. Change is an online mentoring program that teaches people with no experience how to create a real profitable online business and e-commerce. I have been working with Ryan at Change for a few years now and attended many events and got to meet the amazing community of like-minded people. These guys are the best of the best. The support these guys offer is personal, no bots or employees. There's no experience needed but like anything in life it takes time as it's a real business with real results. For more information go check out Ryan on Instagram at RyanGybe and he will guide you through the steps to help build a successful business. You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. Boomer on and today's guest with Noel Wilcox. Noel, how are you? I'm very well. Good to meet you James. Yeah, good to see you. You're here to expose child maintenance. You're seeing a lot of suicide. There's over three billion pounds we're missing, a lot of dark stuff, a lot of corruption which we'll touch on but first and foremost how are you? I'm very well thank you. How are you? Yeah, really good mate. Thanks for coming on the show. It's good weather in London for a change. I'm surprised. It's been a bit of a mad summer but sun's out mate so everybody's happy. My god, what on earth was July about? The weather? Terrible. It's been awful isn't it? It was if I was back in Scotland. Before we get into everything but I always like to go back to the start of my guests. Get a bit of understanding about you know where you grew up and how it all began. Right okay so my name's Noel Wilcox and I grew up in Swiss Cottage in London. Grew up on a council estate. Well sure want to know. How was that? It was very tough, very tough. You know you had to learn you know how to survive on the streets and stuff like that. I remember there was an estate just down the road called Rowley Way. Very very dangerous you know so you had to have your wits about you. Nothing like what it is nowadays but yeah it was quite something growing up in London. What were you like at school? Not very good if I'm honest about it. I was a bit naughty. I actually did get expelled from school for fighting so yeah I wasn't particularly good. What about parents? My mum brought me up. My dad left when I was 18 months old and yeah we you know we kind of struggled, lived in council flats and stuff like that then my mum got a good break. She started working for Vodafone and flew up the chain very quickly in Vodafone so yeah then life started progressing, started getting better. It's funny to all the broken homes and missing fathers that kids end up expelled or involved in violence or prison or they end up in the porn industries. With the broken homes the big percentage of kids being bad has a massive effect. Did you think that affected you as a kid? Your father not being there? Definitely gave me demons you know 100 to 100 million percent. It gave me demons and I had to go through quite a few journeys you know to try and get my head right because I couldn't understand why I was in destructive relationships etc etc and that's a very interesting point that you've just bought to the table there regarding you know the amount of young men that have come from broken homes. Do you know what the actual statistic is of the amount of men and boys that are currently in prison? Is it 60% or something? 76, 76% it's a huge problem. Yeah. You know it's a massive, massive problem and I think just as a society we've lost our way of actual family values. Why do you think that's broken down? Because I think the emphasis in our lives at the moment is all about making money and somewhere along the line we've actually forgotten what it is to just come from you know families what family life is all about. You know life is meant for living not existing and definitely in the UK you know it's this fast pace that we've got of society but also as well there's no support mechanisms out there for families for broken homes etc etc. You know it's all very very one-sided. A lot of research you know. I just feel as if it's getting worse now you've got social media, you've got dating apps. Back in the day 60s, 70s, 80s people met. It was lived on the street maybe or the local pub and they worked at their relationship. It might have been painful but they never broke. They were married at 17, 18. They raised a family four or five, six kids. Now you've got people single girls of the 40s, 50s, 30s, 40s and they don't really want kids. They don't want family but I just feel as if they think the world's over populated. I think there's not enough people on it if I'm honest but again I'm not so sure. If I'm right but it just seems as if the family morals and you talk about the prison stats of over 70% coming from a broken home. The figures are there. It's so important to have a mum and dad and if I've got kids to different women so it's but I know I'm a good dad and I'm there but it still could affect them no matter how good I'm doing. How many how many children are there? Two. Two different women. Right okay. Yeah. So but I'm there at my job. I would be down London full time if I never had my kids back home. They're 12 and 13. Then he did that. I know with these figures and stats and I spoke to enough people the father not being there it fucks them up but I believe mentally, physically, spiritually or whatever you want to call it. I just believe as a father my duty is to be with my family and as a you want to be alpha and everybody talks about masculinity and alpha. The most alpha thing you can do is take care of your family. I couldn't agree with you more. I really couldn't and like you say it's become quite sad in society at the moment and I think definitely one of the reasons why we're witnessing this kind of social devastation that we're seeing at the moment amongst our communities is because mum and dad are not in that child's life. That's what I think. What did you do after school? Just kind of bum jobs. I've always worked. Funny enough I started off as a waiter at Pizza Hut when I was 16 years old which was quite interesting. Just washing dishes that sort of stuff at Pizza Hut. I started getting involved with security. I started working doors, started doing bits and pieces like that. I joined the army reserves and that took me on a different journey. What age were you? I was 18 when I joined the army reserves and it was probably one of the best things that I ever did. How so? Life experience and I do firmly believe that the morals and the values that the army instilled into me has made me the man I am now. Messing father, king, the thing where you've got some structure? Exactly. A bit of structure in my life, bit of motivation, made me realise so many things. It gives you that real kind of like mental robustness that you can get through very tough times. They make it tough in the British army, my god. Some of the courses that you go on and stuff like that are absolutely horrendously hard. The sleep deprivation, the wet weather, the cold, particularly when you go to places like Brickon. It is absolutely horrible. I had some of the SCS men on and they're mad as fuck. Because the British army haven't got it, they're not that many troops compared to India or Japan or Russia, but they're the strongest I believe because they're fucking nuts and they're training the SCS guys. The stuff that they do and the stories that will tell me off-camera, I'm thinking, what the fuck? People don't even know. People don't know half of it. We only see what's on the news, but then that's all bullshit, but the stories that they were saying, the stuff that they have to see. I don't, for me personally, I don't agree with words, but again, they happen, who else is going to serve and protect if people were to invade or whatever. But the more I got into it, because I went to join the Marines as a kid. Really? Why the Marines? I don't know. I spoke to a guy and he just, he says he trained him and he says, and he just looked in great shape, and I thought, fuck, I'm going to join. I went down to the local place in Glasgow, done the test and everything, and I was, I think I was to go away for six weeks, but I can't remember if I was training somewhere, and I ended up going, fuck that, for some reason, but I wanted to go to the Marines. I just looked for an out, I just wanted some stability. I wanted, like you say, structure. I felt as if I was slipping, then the football career was going, and I just thought, man, I'm, and the drug started coming in, and I just thought I need that away from here because I felt was a slipping, and I did slip for a good 12 years. Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. I mean, I think definitely the system, the way that the British army kind of like operates, you know, its structure, you know, how we always keep to the basics, whether your special forces, whether your infantry, whether your royal logistics or whatever it might be, it's just the structure that you always stick to the basics. And then when you go off and you do specialist sort of training for, you know, whether it's operations or courses or whether it might be, you know, those fundamentals, the building blocks are already there. So it's kind of quite easy to go off and do that. And my God, the fitness is just, it's crazy. Yeah, it's just crazy hard. A bit of your later say, so many men from, and the sniper as well, Craig Harrison, mad he done the world's longest sniper kill, but just so fascinating, but it's fascinating also how their minds go. The SCS guys, I noticed they were, they never really gave a fuck. The snipers and stuff, I've seen the struggle. I think I don't know what sort of training you get in the SCS, but Chris Ryan, I had on and he was just, he just looks happy. Just looks as a fuck it. And that takes us because it's, it's not a humane thing to see destruction, kids dying or people dying, it's not normal. But a lot of these people see this, but some of them have, how did I have on the guy? He was supposed to kill a skipper, um, Scottish guy. Oh, uh, Macalice. Macalice, Peter. I went to interview Peter and he's just an old guy sitting in the old folks home just loving life mad. But yeah, I've interviewed people who's in the dark side can't get out. Craig Harrison said to me, I would rather been a war zone because I feel more at peace than I do actually in peace. And I thought, wow, just used to madness, just used to that. I don't know what sort of adrenaline it is to kill someone, but he used to get women and kids walking and he's got that call to make that call. So he doesn't know if they're suicide bombers or not. It's some dark stuff that people don't realize what people actually go through. And I've got nothing but mass respect for anybody who serves. That's their decision. That's because I was going to say, going to join the Marines and I don't know how my life would have been. But I just obviously, I speak to enough people and I think of the destruction and you talk about Iraq and all this stuff and there was no weapons and what was it all for then? Did you ever question it? And there at the time, I was just so loving life that you had a bit of stability and some structuring your life. You know, I think with a soldier, it's not for us to question, you know, why we're there. You know, you swear that oath, you swear that oath of allegiance, you know, and obviously at the time it was, you know, to Her Majesty the Queen. And that's when I believe when I joined the army, you know, the values that this country really stood for, you know, in terms of our constitution, in terms of how we were structured as a country. And that's the reason why I joined and swore that oath. The story of weapons and mass destruction, you know, it's a story that I think it's just going to go on for a very, very long time. Well, you know, were we supposed to be there? Weren't we? I don't know, you know, but soldiers just follow those orders and soldiers can't be blamed for going out and doing the job where we've sworn that oath to do that because somebody's got to do it. Yeah, that's what I say. I have nothing but respect for soldiers because I know how dark it is. But when you swear by that oath, you're just there to take orders. You're just signing up because you feel as if this is the thing that I should be doing. I'm here to serve and protect. So I totally understand that. It's just when you start looking at it. So I'm now outside in the corruption of the government, you think, fuck me, look at all those innocent fucking brothers dying for what? I question that. And I think hopefully they've not been fucked over because people are genuinely believe they've got a purpose to do the right thing to serve and protect. And that's take so much courage to be willing to die for something that you believe in. And that's the ultimate courage, I believe. Yeah, I mean, I think you've raised a valid point there. You swear that oath of allegiance and just in your mind, at that time, Saddam Hussein was the threat. It was called Obtelik, by the way, when it was the Iraq war. So he was the threat at that time. So that's what we trained specific to do. Whatever role you were fulfilling, you know, when you're in Iraq, that role is what you train to go and do. And beyond that, you didn't really think any more or any less than what you are actually specifically tasked to do. And to be honest with you, at that time, when you're going out there on operations, your main thing is I need to come back alive and I need to keep everyone around me alive. And that's kind of what you're more focused on. How is it seeing people that you love die? I personally haven't experienced that. You know, I did see some stuff whilst I was on operations that I had to deal with when I came back. You know, I think this word PTSD now is just kind of like a sound bite for when someone's having a bad day or whatever it might be. You know, actually getting those night tremors, the smells, the heat sometimes that you, you know, it's different experiences that you would have when you're actually serving on operations and you're consistently living under stress. Every day when you're going out that gate, you're living under stress. You don't know if you're coming back that day. You know, sometimes there might be mortar attacks during the night. You can hear the mortar bombs coming in and you're like, Oh my God, where is that going to land? Do you see what I'm saying? And then there might be an explosion, maybe three, 400 meters away from where you are. So I think it's just the stress of the environment. This episode is sponsored by Fireaway Pizza, the fastest growing pizza company in the UK with over 150 stores. With their fresh quality ingredients and unique pizzas, they will have you coming back for more. Use code James20 for 20% off. That's James 20 for 20% off of being there. But then the flip side to the coin is it's quite peaceful. If that makes sense is it can be quite peaceful because the only thing that you've got to worry about is what's in front of you. Not all the stresses and the headache of what you get back here back home. You know, out there, you kind of left your own devices. You know, you've got the protection on you to do that job or to do that task. And the only thing really that you need to worry about is obviously coming home and keeping everyone around you safe. How long were you a soldier for? I'm still part of the army reserves now. I can't let it go. Why is that? I just can't I just can't see myself living my life without having that there. You know, I'm 48 now. I mean, thank you very much. But I mean I just can't let it go. It's a part of my life that I just can't let go. Just like the madness. Like you say, if you look peace. I feel at peace. Yeah. And what does that mean as well as what's the duties then? Do you can you got a call up anytime? Yeah. So what they did is they amalgamated. It was the old TA, you know, and they amalgamated the TA into the regular army. And now you've basically just got one that's full time and one that's part time. You know, they both have to we both have to achieve the same training standards. You know, we get paid the same. Obviously, you only get paid for what you do. And you get paid per your rank. So whatever your ranking structure is, you get paid. And then you get a bounty every sort of every year. You know, you get your MOD 90 card. There is there is literally no difference. You know, you get full access to all the military kind of stuff that a regular army do. The only thing that you don't get is dental. Do you think with the way society is now, there'll be another war? Or do you think it's more chemical and do you think it's different from World War One, World War Two, where people have got the guns and the battling or do you feel as if? I see a lot of instability in the world. And the weirder something is nowadays. I think that's our new reality. And we need to accept that. You know, some of the stuff that's spoken about, you're like, really? Where has that come from? And I just see a lot of instability in the world. I don't see any great leaders in the world currently, you know, who are in top positions. So comical to read those fucking weird cartoon characters. It's mad. There's nobody you go out. Do you know what? I don't like orders myself. I'm not a man who I like to be a leader. But I just feel as if there's nobody you can really go to know what he sounds as if he's got it figured out. Everything just seems a big game for money in the elite where just keep the rich rich and the poor poor. How strong is the British army? Compared to others. It's woeful. Absolutely woeful. Could we ever be invaded? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, massively. You know, it has come out recently that currently, as it stands at the moment, the British army would not be able to fill half a football stadium in the Premier League. But then what doesn't make sense to me is we're just importing all these men of fighting age. And our British army has been absolutely decimated. It just doesn't make sense to me. Why is it Britain? Why is it so powerful then Britain? What is powerful? There's a powerful nation, don't you think? Would have invaded fucking over 90% of the world. Why is it because why was it so powerful compared to other populations and other armies? Because of that military structure, you know, you look at, you look at Sandhurst, you know, that's where all the officers go. Real intensive training. I can't remember how long it is at Sandhurst. You know, it's the structure, it's the education, it's the, it's that military attitude that you have to adopt, you know. And then you look at the way that you're structured throughout you join the army as a private soldier, then you're assessed whether or not you're going to go down the kind of non-commissioned officers route as a leader, or you're going to go kind of into the stores. That decision's made, you know, what path you're going to take. So you're either going to go kind of go down the tactics route, or they'll look at you and think, you know what, you're a lot better as a stores person or wherever it might be, you know, because that's where you're going to be efficient and that's how you're going to work. So you've been doing this for 30 years, I don't know, about 10 now? Yeah, 28, 28 years. I've just recently had to take a leave of absence because, you know, I've got so much on at the moment, you know, I've got a scaffolding company as well. So that's very busy doing really well. And there are other projects that I'm kind of working on at the moment. So I just had to take that leave of absence because to be honest with you, James, I started feeling a bit overwhelmed. So let's touch on the main reason why you're here today, the child maintenance stuff. So when did, it wasn't child maintenance, but it was in 1992 and 93 when it all started? So in 1993, it was the inception of the child support agency, yeah, which is known, most people would know it as the CSA. So that became live in 1993. So what was the main purpose to get money off the mail or to get money off the parent who wasn't there? How did it all start? And what was the process of actually it all being there? Okay, so the process was when it all came live was that when a resident parent was receiving benefits, a condition of that benefits was that they had to give the name of the non-resident parent. That's how that came, because what they wanted to do, if they were paying benefits, what they wanted to do is recoup the money back into the treasury. Yeah, of course. So they wanted to claim some of it back. Yeah, and they wanted to claim some of that money back. So that was a condition of that, but also they also ran a scheme where the resident parent could also contact the agency to carry out an assessment on their partner, ex-partner, wherever it might be. What percentage of the UK pay child maintenance? Currently at the moment, they're near about the million mark. It fluctuates from year to year from what I've seen from about three quarters of a million to up to a million. But we're quite high at the moment. We're into about the million mark, I think. How many of them do you know are there support? That I don't know. I don't know how many people are on income support or on benefits or whatever it might be. I don't really see that sort of data. So are some of the people that are coming from every month, are they near enough among people? Yeah, roughly. We're really close to about that million mark at the moment. I think we're about 960,000. So what made you look into all this? Through my own experience, to be honest with you, I was refused contact with my daughter. For no reason whatsoever. And I couldn't understand. There was just too many unanswered questions. I'm a man who served my country. I've got no criminal convictions. I've got my own business. I've got my own property. And I can't see my child. Why is that? And then an assessment was made against me. And I had this random number that came through the door. I tried to repeal it. I tried to go through the process and nothing got absolutely nowhere. You're just ignored, consistently ignored. What did you do? Went to my MP. He tried a little bit. He just tried to help a little bit. But it just became a repetitive thing. I've sent a letter. I've sent a letter. I've sent a letter. Why don't you pick up the phone and actually ask somebody, how have you come to these figures? So they obtained a liability order against me. And they tried to send me to prison back in March 2022. For what? For non-payment of child maintenance. How much? I think the liability order currently sits at about 7,500 pounds. How long do you get prison for? It's a sanction. Remand? No, it's a sanction. Stay in prison till you've... No, no, no. So it's a sanction. So the maximum is six weeks that they can give you in prison. Or they can remove your passport, your driving license. They can freeze your bank accounts. They can go into your bank account and take any amount of money without a court order, which they tried to do. They tried to raid my bank account with absolutely no paperwork affiliated to them doing that because I did a subject access request with NatWest. They can secure the money through a DEO, which is a direct earnings order. And that's pretty much their enforcement powers, but they're very, very harsh enforcement powers. How did they get that sort of power? Obviously they've got HMRC with tax and they've got some sort of power, but I believe they've got more power than HMRC. Is that correct? They've got more power than any government department in the United Kingdom. Why is that? I believe because it's big business. I believe that child support, child maintenance is big business from the data that I've read. Do you believe they maybe use kids against the parents to make money from the parents? 100%. So if you encourage the non-resident parent not to see that child and there's court orders preventing you from seeing that child, then it's all one way traffic. They can take the money from the non-resident parent. Whereas if you've got 50, 50 shared care, that's divided, isn't it? So it's in their interests to cause that chaos. From the family courts to the child maintenance service. Is that all in favour of the female? The majority of the time? The majority of the time, yes it is. And I get asked this question an awful lot. And the answer to it is, why does it favour the woman? The reason for that is, is the way that the child benefit laws are written, which is currently being challenged in the High Court at the moment, because it's discriminatory towards fathers. Do you feel as if there should be more protection for the fathers? Yeah, definitely. There should be a lot better appeals procedures and definitely accountability. From what I've seen with the child maintenance service, they have absolutely no accountability whatsoever. They are a completely rogue organisation who just make up their own rules as they go along. You talked about, before we spoke about over £3 billion gone missing, what was that? £3 billion hasn't gone missing. So what's happened is the old child support agency, because they didn't have the access to the technical data that they have nowadays, where they could go direct to HMRC and obtain a figure from HMRC. So what they would do is, they would inflate your income by 300%. So make out you're making more than what you are? A lot more. And they used that as a lever to scare you, the paying parent, into contacting them. So that was a matter of course, that they used that tactic. So HMRC used to use that tactic, but what they used to do was make the corrections. So once you got into contact with HMRC and you cleared up whatever it is that you owe them or whatever it might be, they would make those necessary corrections. Whereas with the child support agency, they never made those corrections on those balances. Yeah, because we talk about suicide is high, with these sort of cases as well, child maintenance, people struggling, they can't take the pressure. What sort of scare tactics do they do? So by inflating that income, you know, the first thing that you're going to look at it, because it's got the crown seal on it, you're going to look at it and you're going to go, well, hold on a minute, I own that, I own £20,000 a year. Why am I being assessed on £60,000 a year? So your automatic reaction is to contact the agency and give them the correct data. So that's what paying parents were doing, giving them the correct data. But what they weren't doing was making the necessary changes or correcting those calculations and on that account. So let's say, for instance, they wanted you to pay £100 a week, they would assess you on £300 a week. What would happen is you would start paying that £100 a week, but they never made that correction of that £200 a week. And what would happen is that would just keep growing in the accounts balance, which is known as the 1993 and the 2003 schemes. Yeah. And we know that this was the tactic that they were employing, because Noel Shanahan, who was the director of the Child Maintenance Service, in the oral hearings with the public account, sorry, the Public Accounts Committee, he basically gave that evidence that that was what they were doing. And he said there's severe question marks over the £3.8 billion. So you've done six weeks? No, no, no. They're trying to send you there for six weeks? Yeah. So is that another scare tactic? Of course it is. Yeah, it is another scare tactic. So what I did is I kept myself assessment right back to the end, which was the correct tax year. So what they did in my case, they cherry picked the income. So the year when I went for my mortgage, which was 2015-16, they went after that particular tax year. And then the year after, I didn't earn as much money, so my tax had fell and it favoured them to use the tax year 2015-16. So the claim against me was made in September 2017. So logic and common sense would say to you that you need to go back to the tax year 2016-2017, because that's a true reflection of your income. But they went back to my tax year 2015-2016. So that was two years prior to that because that was their favoured tax year. Then obviously, the minute that I said to them, well, hold on a minute, that's not my correct income. They said you're non-compliant and then they started whacking on all their fees. So what they run is a service called collect and pay, which is where they add 20% onto the amount that they're collecting from you and then they deduct 4% from the receiving parent. So in total, that amount there, so it suits them for you to be non-compliant, because what they're going to do is deduct 24% from the money that they're collecting from you by putting you on to collect and pay. So the money they collect from you is not 100% going to the parent? No, no. And they can take anything up to 24%? Yep, so legally they're only supposed to take 40%, up to 40% of your income, because they go in at the gross amount. So it's not even after you've paid your bills or anything like that. So it's really like a stealth tax. So they can take 40% of your income? They can take 40% of your income. Not matter if you've got other kids, mortgage, other bills. So if you're making a grand a month, they can take 400. Exactly. And this happens now? This is happening time and time and time again. And how much of that 400, say I make a grand a month, they take 40%, how much does that 40% go to the mum? So if you think about the 40%, they will deduct 4% from the mother. So whatever the amount is going to the mother, we're saying mother because it is predominantly mothers, but for the purposes of this, it's the receiving parent and the non-resident parent. So the receiving parent will receive the money, but they've already taken their 20% that they've put on top, and then they'll deduct 4%. Does that make sense? Yeah. So if the, because I get, listen, people are struggling. And as a father, it takes two, male and female, it takes two to create a kid. And as for a mother, I know mothers, single mothers who struggle. And if a father's working, I believe a father should provide and protect no matter if they're in the relationship or not as a father's duties. Me now personally, as I've made changes in my life, I understand the most important thing is my family and to be the right role model and try and lead by example. I get my kids every week at the start, it was a bit in and out of their lives because I just, I choose partying, I choose to drink, I choose the drugs because I don't give a fuck about anybody. I'm starting making changes and I understand now where I'm in at my kids need me. And I've viewed enough people who realize they're broken home and the father not being there, it affects them mentally as they got older. So my duties is to be there, pay my way. So I understand if the child maintenance is there to get money from fathers who just don't want to see their kids, don't take any responsibility, as a positives from it also, from a mother's side to go, wait a minute, he's just got me pregnant fucked off, doesn't pay anything, I want at least something. We know now, listen, kids are used as weapons, mothers can be spiteful and say, well, you're not seeing your kid and the, it's always in their favor. And if you go to courts, it can take months, even years. And I know a lot of broken fathers who have messaged me and not seen their kids in years, I try to sort it out. And it's mothers shouldn't fucking be that way. But we're living a world where people are spiteful, but also living a world where mothers want to protect their kids. And some fathers are assholes and dead beats as well. But is there positives from child maintenance for the single mother just trying to get a bit more money to survive and feed our kids? That's a really, really interesting question. I haven't seen many positives in theory, the way that the child maintenance service is supposed to work in theory, it should make sure that the money, the right money gets to those children. But that's in theory, in reality, the way that it works from what I've read, all the research that I've done, it just leaves a trail of destruction on both sides. Yeah, because I pay direct pay for my son, but I get my son every week as well. So, but I still get messages from them. It's due here, I pay, it's due there, but I had no contact because I pay direct, I see my son. Why are they still involved in my life as well? Is that what they're always doing? I think 16 or 18, I think 16 or 18, but I like to think I'm a good father now, I'll always be there, but why are they still constant? So one would have to question the state's involvement. Why are the state interfering in private arrangements? Why is that? Because it suits the state, this high regulation, because we see it everywhere. Everywhere that we go is this regulation, regulation, you will do, you will do, or we will do. And they've got the full backing of the law behind them. They've got all this legislation that they're putting through that suits their own agenda. Is this for people who are only saying the buff certificate and know they're the father, or can it be if a woman says, well, he's the dad, can they come for someone who's not on the buff certificate? Yeah, 100% they can come for you. Without DNA? Without DNA, because if you look at, if you, we do know of cases where men have been sent to prison when they've disputed paternity and how on earth are they able to obtain the DNA from that child when they don't have contact with that child? So the CMS and the CSA say, well, you can use our laboratories. Would you trust that? So people are paying money, they've never had a DNA and they might not be the dad. 100%. See that? But also that's on, but that's also on the other side of the coin as well because some women are affected by this as well because some fathers get custody of the children and then they go after the mother for child support. What's the maximum you pay for child support? There is a maximum. So somebody's making a million a month, making it happen for bigger. So for one child, you'll pay 12% of your salary. Yeah, for one child, that's how it's supposed to work. I can't remember what the other calculations are. I think for two children, it might be 16% and then it might be 18%. I don't have the figures monthly. It's still a big hit for a lot of people and it's mad to think that people are taking their own life for otherwise. The suicide rate so high with the two maintenance thing. Can we come back to that? Yeah, of course we can. If we come back to that because there's a bit, like I say, there's a bit of a story here that's developing. And very, very recently, Sir Ellen Campbell, who is obviously a knight of the realm, he has asked for a public inquiry into the child maintenance service. And what concerns me about this is that none of the media, nobody has picked this up, that he has asked for a public inquiry into the child maintenance service for inaccurate maintenance assessments. Why is that? Do you believe it's all corrupt? It's not for me to say that it's corrupt, you know, but something's not working here. And that's the only way that I can see it. Something is just really wrong and something's not working. The knight of the realm has asked for a public inquiry in the House of Commons. And it's like this question just hasn't even been asked. And what he's also said is that people need to be compensated who have had these inaccurate maintenance assessments against them because it's very, very, very relevant, very relevant. So say a child maintenance make up and say, well, you're this, this is a percentage we've taken. Can anybody, can you count it attacking and say, well, wait a minute, that's wrong. These are my pay slips. These are the tax up here. You can, you can do all of that. You can try all of that and you will be ignored. Ignored, ignored, ignored. It's, it's a very, very dark hole that the child maintenance service and parents are petrified of this service because of the way that they operate rather than letting two adults come together and discuss what's best for that child. How can you have something in place that essentially has become a monster that where the minute the a non-resident parent gets a letter through the door, they either stop work and go on to benefits because they know it is a lifetime of hell with this entity. It does become a lifetime of hell from what I've seen and I've experienced that. I've experienced five years of sleepless nights of just sheer and utter stress going to prison for a fictitious debt and that is the key word here, fictitious, because if I bring you back to these interim assessments that were being carried out, the arrears balances grew to 3.8 billion pounds. So what's happened is when the CSA was closed down in 2012, the child maintenance service came alive and what they did is they dragged that debt from the old cases of the CSA, they dragged it into the 2012 scheme and what's been happening and what we've been seeing is that paying parents who are paying for their children, all of a sudden will wake up in the morning, go onto their portal and they will see that they've got thousands of pounds of arrears on their accounts. So what changes then? Sorry, what changes then? How can people make changes for a better structure and a better not protection for men but a better understanding because you said about the mums and dads coming together but you know yourself, people have one night stands, people hate each other, they'll have disagreements, people have affairs, it turns toxic and people don't even want to see each other as parents. So it's difficult to try and have an adult conversation special when it comes to something so sensitive as a child. I know many deadbeat fathers don't even see their kids and they just don't care so it would be hard for them to get them in the room with their mother. So what do you think could help with a better structure to put things in place where people can get a better understanding of okay well this is where you get paid, at least pay something as your kid do the right thing. How do you think it gets put in place where there's not enough pressure getting put on someone where people are taking a life, people are going to prison, people are getting much more took off than what they shouldn't. What do you think is a better structure to get in place? Can we come back to that point because that is a very interesting point and that is how I would kind of like to summarise from all of the detail of what's been going on and you know you've mentioned suicides, you've mentioned how can we fix this and stuff like that and like I say that's kind of like more how we would summarise on how we can, I don't necessarily know if we can fix this problem but we can certainly look to where it's a fairer system but then one would argue that the child support agency has failed, the child maintenance service is failing. So what is it? Is it the best of three? Do we set something else up for it to fail? For 30 years this system has been running and it just does not work and we are throwing hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money at a system that just does not work and it hasn't worked and the proof is in the pudding. So this debt that they've been distributing amongst paying parents, the very tragic thing about this is that there is no way for a paying parent to challenge these arrears. They get this liability order and then the armory door of enforcement powers opens up, the paying parent cannot see any light at the end of this tunnel and very very tragically they will take their own life and that is really really really tragic and there's a couple of cases that I've paid a lot of attention to and one of the cases is Gavin Briggs who was a young man, he was paying for his children through a court order, that was all part of the divorce settlement and Gavin took his life a couple of years ago, July, a couple of years ago and I've spoken to his father on numerous occasions. They inflated his income to around about £76,000, he was a train mechanic, they don't earn that sort of money. He was then given £15,900 of arrears on top as well, as well as him already paying for his two children which was all part of the divorce settlement. When I did the figures they left him with something like about £120 to £150 a month to live on. He took himself and it was really really tough to hear this you know and it's a very very sad story, really sad story. He took himself off to a field, bought himself a sandwich, bought one of those barbecues that you can transport around and he lit the barbecue in his car and obviously poisoned himself. You've been driven to do that to yourself, can you imagine what was going through Gavin Briggs' mind because he's got no way out of this nightmare and it has been covered by the media, the actual story was covered by the media. That cannot go on, whether you owe the money or whether you don't owe the money, the state can't have that amount of power to force you to pay a debt that you don't owe where you actually deem that that is the only way out is to take your own life and Ian and the mother Julia are two just beautiful people you know Gavin served his country, he was working just trying to get on with his life, his father served his country, his mother is a beautiful person and their lives have been absolutely destroyed by what's happened. You've seen a lot of cases like this? I've seen so many cases like this and since I've taken this kind of role on I've had so many people reaching out to me and I mean these stories are just absolutely tragic. I'll give you another example of a high profile case that was covered by the media as well was a case of Johnny O'Neill. He was paying nearly 700 pounds a month for one child, he just wasn't earning that sort of money, he was also given 4,000 pounds of arrears. Do you know what he did? Left a suicide note on Facebook saying that he hopes that he can change the system of the child maintenance service and he left and he left that note on Facebook and then he tragically took his own life. So that's the pressures of what you mean and this is what they're doing and he I've listened to the recordings, the family have sent me the recordings because they were able to obtain the recordings from the child maintenance service. A lot of the recordings don't make sense and the recordings are in the wrong order. Surely that's perjury, tampering with evidence, a lot of the recordings just don't make any sense to me at all and that's when I look at it. Is this deliberate or not? Like you know, I don't know. What do you think from what I've said to you? Yeah, I don't know. It's a weird one. It's like I say I pay direct so I've never really had, I've had issues where they've made more money and they've tried to get more money but I pay more than what they asked for and I just find it all weird that they've got so much power to close accounts and take money and put people to prison. Who is behind it all then? Who's actually behind it? Is it the government? Is it a private company? Who's behind it all? Can I come back to that point because that's another really, really interesting point as well. In March 2022 there was another Public Accounts Committee with Arling Sugden. She was the Director of the Child Maintenance Service and she was cross-examined by Debbie Abraham's who is an MP about the suicides and the amount of complaints that she'd received regarding the way that clients are being treated and the case of Johnny O'Neill that I just spoke to her about was one of the cases that she actually challenged Arling Sugden over and said that the family have contacted you numerous times. The mother said to you numerous times I'm really fearful for what my son's going to do. No response from the Child Maintenance Service. No response whatsoever. So what they do is they hold an internal review process when a client is what they call you takes their own life and she categorically stated that they find most of the time in the internal review process that the CMS is not responsible for that person taking their own life. She made quite a bold statement by saying that their clients most of them are in a load of debt anyway. That's quite a flippant response. Then Viscount Younger who's just taken the position of Undersecretary of State, he said something quite contrary to that and that's where I'm quite disturbed about different accounts different stories that's coming from the top and Viscount Younger said that he's just taken the position and he's read a lot of cases that have resulted in tragic circumstances and he said the processes need to be in place to stop people from taking their own lives. So who do you think is being dishonest? So she says because he's in other debt that it's not Child Maintenance Problem. Exactly and they carry out an internal review process. Is that not like marking your own homework? It's sad to think because we're not going no suicides on their eyes and people are struggling but that extra when you get a date later let's get the red right and it's bold and and they're consistent. It does break people down understand that people are chasing money and if you're fucked up a lot if you fuck something then people want that money but it's just the powers that they have they are ruthless. But that bill you've agreed to that bill that's come through your door you know what that bill is the bill that comes through from the Child Maintenance Service or the Child Support Agency you've got no idea and the difference is is that you know bills whether it's with a bank or your mortgage company or whatever it might be they are regulated by the financial conduct authority. From what I can see there is nobody that's regulating the Child Maintenance Service. How does it if the parents agree because they're supposed to then just let you be if there comes an agreement but I still get I still get text messages they all pay me it's true but I'm not dealing with them I pay direct so how does it how does it work when if a parents come together like you say if two parents come together then should they all stop 100% because you you know when are we going to start treating people like adults yeah you know that's an adult decision isn't it to have a child it's for me maybe I'm old school maybe I'm a bit of a dinosaur I don't know but that's a big decision to produce a child is a big decision and a child should never be produced for financial benefit and currently the systems in place support that effort the more children you have the more money you can claim since when has that been right maybe I'm old school I don't know you know if you if you decide to have a child both parents are equally responsible for that child financial schooling health whatever it might be both parents are equal shouldn't be one that dictates more than the other but the system currently supports that let's touch on the suicides again because I think it's important for a lot of people who are arguing through this process and who are struggling who don't see a way out because of the pressure and the bank accounts getting frozen taking more money that they should how is it anything in place for anybody to get help or seek help or where do they turn to Samaritans that's about it really what about lawyers Mark that's more money I know as well yeah solicitors because there's no legal aid assigned to child maintenance any legal profession that you contact they're just not interested they'll just say sorry can't help you because there's no legal aid there's nothing in it for them but it's interesting that you talk about the suicides because I want to talk about the Brian Hudson report and Brian Hudson through FOIs which is the freedom of information yeah so what you can do you know about freedom of information and why it's there and that I don't know why it's there but the freedom of information act yeah so it comes under the freedom of information act which is where you can request certain data from government bodies yeah to make them more transparent basically what did I get I think I've done that with my my lawyer done that for me I think for all my court cases and stuff freedom of information act to see to see what data they hold on yeah everything if there's any little surveillance nor that years ago it was they they've got to be I don't know if they'll ever be a hundred percent honest but they had to give all the information that was on me were surveillance the time I was in prisons every time I was arrested they gave me everything all photos of stuff me and police sales so that's more subject access for subject to actually request it was yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so so that's all the data that's held on you by that department by the police that was yeah so what freedom of information is therefore is to obtain data held by those government departments yeah so what happened with brian hudson he carried out a study between 2017 and 2020 and brian is an expert with data I mean he's phenomenal with data and his calculations so what he did he obtained data from what do they know and that was direct from the cms so it was the data that the cms so it's undeniable indisputable data that has come from the child maintenance service and in that data he found between 2017 to 2020 he had found that a thousand and 13 paying parents with a rears were dead a thousand and 13 paying parents let that just sink in for a minute that is a substantial figure and he obtained obtain that data from the child maintenance service and then he also carried out another study and this is all life expectancy so he worked to a table of life expectancy so it could be like from 18 to 25 what is the life expectancy of somebody to live you know 18 to 25 then from like 25 to 40 yeah you know like those tables so that was the study that he carried out and with receiving parents it was something like one percent but with paying parents with a rears it was 14 times more and when covid came when the pandemic came enforcement dropped by 28 percent why why because obviously they weren't there to enforce certain things because you know all government departments were closed down etc etc he then did a further fi y after 2020 and he obtained the data from them there again and the death rate had fallen by 27.5 percent so enforcement had seized by 28 percent and the death rate had fell by 27.5 percent because there wasn't pressure on because there wasn't the enforcement process of what was happening so the data would suggest that there is suicides you know we would you know the data would suggest that that paying parents are taking their own lives and it has been highlighted in public accounts committees it has been highlighted in other areas but it's just ignored it's just ignored by the government it's ignored by the DWP it's just ignored by everybody this is a massive massive problem it's such a huge problem this is then we look at the national audit office do you know who the national law right so the national audit office they're the regulators so they regulate all government departments and since the inception of the child maintenance service the national audit office every single year have refused to sign off the accounts of the child maintenance service based on inaccurate maintenance assessments the maintenance assessments that they've carried out are not in line with child maintenance legislation and they're refusing to sign off the accounts based on the fact on the 1993 and 2003 schemes that it is inaccurate maintenance assessments that have been carried out Joshua Redway from who is the director of the national audit office in march 2022 in the same public accounts committee hearing he categorically stated that parents are being pursued for debts where there is no evidence to substantiate that they owe that money yeah it's mad even for the when the lockdown came and the everything dropped with the suicides for people who pay child maintenance it's sad to think the people are taking a leave see if you go to prison for the six weeks did await the bill no no no usually and i don't think it was seven days in baloney back in the day for a fine but as soon as i was out the fine was gone so if you do prison time you're still obligated to pay what you're owed and they'll come off through again so the only thing that they can't do is put you in prison because then that's double jeopardy isn't it so they can't put you in prison no but then they've got all the other enforcement powers still do you get a fine or anything for going to prison or going to court they go to court for it and then they send you to prison or can they just take you straight to prison just like they just shut your bank accounts down and just freeze everything can they just come to your door or they're not get that sort of power they've got to go through the courts well a couple of things here that we're going to talk about is currently at the moment there's a case in the high court which is the declaration of incompatibility yeah do you know what explain that please right okay so a declaration of incompatibility is regarding human rights and the way that human rights are being violated so in the child support act 1991 section 33 subsection 4 it precludes the magistrate from checking the calculations of the child maintenance service so in essence what that means is that when you go to court whatever figures are presented to that court the magistrate will punish you regarding those figures the magistrate has its hands tied they cannot check those calculations that those calculations are in that they are correct but we know that these calculations are incorrect because the national audit office who are the regulators and the auditors every single year refuse to sign off the certificate of efficiency based on the calculations and the figures that the child maintenance service are producing why is that how has that been allowed to happen i mean is that a complete failure that the judiciary are not checking what's going on with the DWP is it a complete failure i don't know what do you think yeah i don't know it just seems all messy and how can people check up on the facts and the figures and the names that you're saying here can people look up on that and just kind of look into it more detail also and just confirm everything yeah of course they can you know we'll we'll publish the links where everybody can see what i've spoken about today regarding the child maintenance service is all evidence-based you asked me a question earlier is this you know who who's running this who's running this business that i can't answer and if i knew the answer to that i would certainly say it have you heard of a company called circo circo yeah how the fuck do i know that name because they're in our lives i'm sure i've had letters from them well they're in our lives every single day is that a private company yeah it's a private company and do you know who the ceo is no rupert soames do you know who rupert soames is winston church or his grandson okay do you know who nicolas soames is his brother his brother yeah but do you know who he is no all right okay so he's a conservative mp so one would ask the question how are circo securing all of these contracts so they've got a border force contract is that debt sorry is that debt no border force so the the illegal immigrants they're all coming across so border force are picking them up yeah and then circo are housing them probably i don't know i haven't looked into them that much that they had because we had that in glasgo but it changed to i think g4 because it used to have the the transits for prisons now we're now we're getting into the nuts and bolts of this yeah so circo they have had the contract since 2008 of the child maintenance enforcement commission contract and in 2015 to 2017 they were awarded extended the contract of 47 million pounds the child maintenance enforcement commission how on earth has a corporation a corporate company got statutory powers how on earth has that happened that they hold that much power and circo published a press release in 2015 saying that they collected a billion pounds was this a billion pounds of the 3.8 billion pounds that's never been out because we know that figure doesn't exist it's been confirmed in many transcripts in oral hearings that that 3.8 billion pounds is not owed but they're continuing to collect this money that is not owed and that is the reason why sir ellen cambell has asked for a public inquiry into what's going on then you look at who else is involved with the child maintenance service and you just said their name a minute ago g4s apparently they run the administration side of it then there's another company called tartar and rishi sunak has financial involvement with tartar they run the computer systems of the child maintenance service i mean what do you think's going on james seems as if it's all linked it just seems as if it's big business where there's a lot of money to be made the makeup private companies we can go down the rabbit hole looking at black rock who've massive all around the world there's so much darkness but again i'm not clued up enough but i can only give my opinion it just seems if there's money to be made if you're involved in politics if you're mentioning those names like church always grandson or whatever they're going to have some sort of power where they can run these private companies and collect debts that maybe are not there or they are there and making some extra money and then taking the extra money but what that money they're collecting they'll start taking extra money from the parents so it covers it covers costs so what they'll do is just use the the normal the average human being and just fucking bleed them dry for their own greed their own power i don't have all the answers to it but there's a lot of big corporations and big businesses who you hear i've not got all the paperwork but i can only hear and speak to enough people and watch a few videos and think well that's a bit dodgy there but i know g4 that's where i must know that from that connection it's just all paperwork businesses okay we'll make up a business we'll sign this but yeah how do we get more money out of these people so we'll just we'll put more pressure on them say they're making this amount it's just greed at the end of the day all comes down to greed but for all these people that's working on it then and they've got that power who's signing for the power is it some that inside the government who's given them the free role to then be collecting something that doesn't exist yeah again that's another very interesting point that you've just raised there who is benefiting from this who who is benefiting from all of this money i you know i i couldn't honestly say but i do know that's in since 2019 the child maintenance service gave the treasury nearly 850 million from the 1993 and 2003 schemes sort of a billion pounds that was collected 850 million was given to the treasury and only 1.12 million was given to receiving parents out of a billion pounds but 850 million pounds that was given to the treasury of a debt that's never been i keep saying it we know that that debt is a fictitious debt so why are they collecting this money and giving the money to the treasury so you're talking about 98 percent 97 percent going to a treasury and the parents only getting 1.12 million basically less than 1 percent exactly nearly a billion exactly so when you asked me earlier do the receiving parents get the money they get a bit but in terms of what they're collecting they get nothing and that's what i'm saying to you is now become big big business a state-regulated big business to make money but if you start taking food away from these people's mouths then you become a target so you're speaking out as deep as if you can become a threat just beginning of speaking out in higher places now and going well wait a minute this name's here where's that billion pound went because it's it's a system where it's a good system for them because when it comes to kids they've got that there we talk about kids being used as tools the government will use them as a tool but for everything you're saying is correct they'll using kids well wait a minute nobody likes to speak out when it comes to kids and people think well the parents should be paying this and that but if there's corruption and there's a billion pound going missing if there's 3.8 billion where is that then there's got to be but what is wrong with speaking up nothing that you see this is this is the thing what is wrong with speaking up what's happening with the inquest the inquest with the guy who's wanting to look into oh you mentioned these names earlier right so is that a possibility of people looking into it or will it just get swept under the carpet it has been swept under the carpet it has in the case of Gavin Briggs and in the case of Johnny O'Neill it's already been swept under the carpet when Ian Briggs attended court public coroner's court the coroner stated the CMS I'm refusing to listen to any evidence in relation to the child maintenance service that is the coroner's job to listen to the evidence to determine how that person has come to take their own life that is the coroner's that's his job and he stated in a public court that he's going to refuse to listen to any evidence regarding the child maintenance service so is that banging your head against a brick wall so it is banging your head against a brick wall but paying parents are paying the ultimate sacrifice and all we get in the media and that's what I'm highlighting it on both parts I'm just impartial to all of this I've looked at receiving parents receiving parents I'm not getting the money that they should be and I've just clearly stated that by saying of this debt that's been collected only £1.12 million was paid to them the rest of it was paid back to the Treasury and I can't understand that that bit I can't get my head around because that bit has never been owed to the Secretary of State these are just facts and figures that are all out there in the public domain and I've just looked at them that's all that I've done I don't listen to what the news say you know every time you hear anything about the child maintenance service we're going after deadbeat dads that's just propaganda all these fathers and all these mothers are all paying for their children they're paying hence the reason why they're called a paying parent and the reason why the receiving parents are not getting the money because the non-resident parent is so busy trying to fight the system of these arrears that they've been getting on their accounts so just going round and round and round in circles and until there's a public inquiry into what is actually going on where the money's going making it transparent nothing at all about the child maintenance service is transparent and it's got to be transparent the same way that the court process has to be transparent any public body any government body has to be transparent this is what we're electing our officials to do you can't sit back in in a web of secrecy and stuff like that we've you know society has moved on from that the cloak and dagger days we have to become transparent we've got to start reducing this regulation and let people live their lives and grow up everybody makes mistakes we've all made mistakes my god i've made hundreds of mistakes in my life yeah what you mean yeah you know i'm a human being just the same as anybody else but we've got people who are going to eat and i'm not saying that they're any less or whatever but they haven't lived real lives and they're making these laws they're not getting up every single day battling the traffic going to work getting these bills come through the door you know which are really stressful with the cost of living crisis and stuff like that and like i say the child maintenance service are pumping this propaganda oh we're chasing feckless fathers deadbeat dads that's all that you hear to let the public believe that all fathers just don't pay for their children but we're going to force them to pay for their children all of everybody that i've interviewed and everybody that i've spoken to and read their case studies james they're all paying for their children whether it was a part private arrangement whether it was this or whether it was that and like what you're experiencing you're paying for your children and the child maintenance service is still harassing you in some way why is that allowed yeah how did did you ever sort out with them when you were going through everything that you were going through so what i did is i sent them my tax return of what it was for that year i mean i went through all the appeals process i went through uh the independent case examiner and the independent case examiner actually ruled in my favor and said that they never carried out a mandatory reconsideration they said they never carried out a mandatory reconsideration which is when they make an assessment if your income has changed by more than 25 percent they have to reduce um that amount to whatever it might be yet again it was just all ignored ignored and the independent case examiner actually ruled in my favor the dwp got in touch with me and they said i would like to pay you 75 pounds compensation but then they carried on with the same figures they never made the adjustments so when they were going to send me to prison i sent them my um my tax return and they know that it's a lot less and at that point i never heard back from them again but i still have this fictitious debt out there that allegedly i owe cannot affect your credit rating yes they can place it on your credit file so the reason why i stopped paying for my daughter was because my daughter was involved in a high-profile case where the stepfather and the mother were arrested this is in the public domain as well they are arrested for the suspicious death of the grandmother and child protection services got involved etc etc then when i started reading the police reports and the statements the stepfather categorically stated under police interview if i had more money i would do more drugs and he admitted to doing cocaine three to four times per week well surely that puts my daughter at risk i provided that evidence to the child maintenance service yet again all ignored we only administer child support that's all we do but section two of the child support act says something completely different so where does it say that so this is what i'm saying in our every single day lives the legislation that's been put through of this high regulation they only pick the bits that they want the law is either the law or there's no point having the law you can't just pick the bits that suit you or we don't like that bit because we can't collect the money the reason why that's there section two the welfare of the child is because it is the welfare of the child to stop things like that so if a child is being brought up in a crack house that is what section two is there to do to protect the child yeah i see some dads who listen to try and do whatever they can not to pay any maintenance but then also on the other hand i see a lot of dads who the mother tries to get whatever they can and the money doesn't seem to go to the kids they're all cutting about in their designer clothes and having their nights out at the weekend so i see both sides as well but what happens if like you say is there the mother was an addict she was an alcoholic or she was addicted to drugs but you're paying something you know the kids maybe at the grandparents she's not spending the money on the kids how is there anything in place for the father to know where the money's going like receipts so that child can be made a financial ward of court but the cms will not allow you to get that to court because they will carry out their enforcement process so if you provide the evidence to the child maintenance service and you say my daughter's at risk you can provide the evidence that that child is at risk or is vulnerable to drugs or whatever it might be of course you still need to pay for the upkeep of that child but it needs to be done in a responsible way and regulated way that's when regulation is supposed to come in not in our everyday lives but that's where regulation should be used in something as serious as that you know drugs destroy people's lives in one way or another i've known a lot of people who've taken drugs over the years come on i run a scaffold company scaffolders are the worst for it yeah scaffolders are the worst for it they fuckers are born at the now and all i see is people who do drugs they don't do well out of it yeah of course and that and that is you know the bottom line but are people turning to drugs are they turning to alcohol because of the pressure of the state i think the pressure of life in general as well but i did extra pressure of getting your wages took off you and just paying for a kid that you're maybe paying too much and where's the money going there's a lot of facts and figures to look into so see when they're taking money so see they take my wages and they if they give the ex-partner money does she know how much she's getting or does she just get a slice of whatever the chair maintenance cover right so my understanding is of this is that when they produce a statement it's not like a bank statement where you can see what's coming in what's going out the other end and the balance in the middle because that way they'd never be able to add a rears so until they produce a full set of accounts and full statements of exactly what's coming in what's going out and the balance the same way that banks do the same way that your car finance does loans etc it's a full statement isn't it it's quite easy to understand but the way that they're showing these statements nobody knows so i mean off the back of that if you said to me what positive any positive outcomes from this i would say that non-resident parents resident parents put your differences aside no matter what it is and communicate with each other and get to the bottom of exactly the amount of money that he's been paying or she's been paying or what he's been receiving and then you can determine and put your case together and and use the correct channels start highlighting this people have to stand up for themselves because the state are just going to keep using the legislation and it's okay to say no and since when have we just accepted as the queen subjects as the king subjects that corruption is okay we've now come to accept it in our lives oh it's okay to be corrupt because they're just doing it and it doesn't really affect me so i'm not really that bothered about it but if you've got children this can affect your children at any time your son or your daughter could meet the wrong partner and before you know it their life is turned upside down and destroyed so we've got to get people to communicate and that's what we need people to do and that's what we need to promote is communication is absolutely key go to meditation whatever it might be sort your differences out and find out who's paying what and who's receiving what because none of these figures are adding up the national audit office are clearly stating every single year that there's overpayments and it's not like 10 pounds or 20 pounds this is millions of pounds there's like overpayments of 11 million pounds underpayments of 20 million pounds you know we could sit here and say okay it might be a clerical error if it was a couple of under quid but this is millions of pounds do you feel as if it would be beneficial for both parents to get together where the mother would make more money and the dad would save more money because you're cutting out the middleman who's bleeding people dry and putting the pressure on them exactly exactly i know a million percent that receiving parents complain as much about the system as what non-resident parents do but unfortunately receiving parents are not taking their own lives as a result of what of the child maintenance service actions they might be leaving them in maybe a bit of poverty or short of money or short of bread that week but non-resident parents are taking their own lives as a result of these incorrect maintenance assessments and the pressure and the pressure of enforcement you're talking about corruption what sort of corruption is involved what sort of tactics did it do to the parent well in 2022 there was a case deletion of cases that they had deleted from the 1993 and 2003 schemes to the value of 78 million pounds but they'd actually deleted case files the national audit office you know were very very vocal about that that they had deleted case files to that value and the long and short of it is is that the national audit office where they keep saying that it's overpayments underpayments misstated misstated means errors constant errors errors errors this is what keeps flagging up with the national audit office but deleting data that's a criminal offense that is 100% a criminal offense oh yeah in evidence exactly but deleting data is a criminal offense and I think under fca regulations that any financial institute that they have to hold data it might be from seven to ten years or something like that in the archive they can't delete case files programs or whatever it might be but the trial maintenance service have and pizza scofield said oh so peter scofield is the uh he is the main civil servant of the dwp he's like their highest ranking civil servant and he has said oh we've got process in place now where case files can't be deleted well that's just not good enough is it that's a lot of money yet again 78 million a value of 78 million pounds just disappears just gone disappeared what you're hoping to get out of that center of view today and all I want to raise awareness what I also want is resident parents and non-resident parents to put their differences aside and get to the bottom of who's paying what because I know many times the paying parents are saying I'm paying what they're telling me to pay but the receiving parent is saying I'm not getting that money and consistently saying that they're not getting that money so where is that money going I don't know where that money is going the national audit office doesn't know where that money is going and that's what I want and I want people to come forwards as well and I'll give the website that people can get in contact with and what we want is people to come forwards who have been affected by the child maintenance service and the child support agency and this goes back to 1993 and what we really really want is people who have unfortunately lost loved ones to come forwards and to pass with that data of then what we need is their name date of birth and the date of their death then we can determine how many suicides have been caused by the child maintenance service and that's the data that we want to collect what happens if you've got all that data and people make a stand but what's the next steps to then try and get an inquest to look into it and see if there's corruption to see the figures don't add up how does people then make that happen well then there has to be pressure put on the police with that data the pressure has to be put on the police to get the right warrants to conduct the right investigation into what exactly is going on where is this money going who is the recipients of all of this money and why a debt of 3.8 billion pounds which we know is fictitious I mean if you look at the fraud act 2006 inflating incomes that is a fraudulent action by doing that so why why are the police not looking at this why are people not taking this a lot more seriously than what it actually is it's a huge huge problem and I just don't understand why people are just not paying attention to it in the high places but for anybody watching who's feeling that pressure who's feeling that struggle who feels as if something ain't right with the child maintenance service what advice would you have for them where can they turn to how can they speak to you where's the links for people to look up on it and try and get some help to ease the pressure yeah again that's a very very interesting question that you just asked me there there isn't support out there for non-resident parents who are under that pressure but the only thing that I can say is that when you're under a lot of pressure and no matter what's going on in your life that pressure will always pass at some point and people you know who tragically take their own lives as a result of it there are other options and all I can do is ask people to reach out speak to whoever it is stand up to the child maintenance service what's that old saying whoever shouts loudest gets heard use the correct channels that are there if you've been inaccurately assessed and there's an order that's out there for you look at the judicial process you know look at getting your case into a judicial review look at getting it into the court of appeal the high court whatever it might be and get it out of the this system that you're in where you can't appeal the appeals process that you go through fails and it fails dramatically the only way that people can appeal against these inaccurate maintenance assessments is going through a tribunal but that's the tribunal that they steer you towards ICE which is the independent case exam now you're lucky if they'll hear your case for up to three years so the whole system's failing from top to bottom and in this when the system's failing the child maintenance service are going to carry out their enforcement that happens quite quickly literally I would say from the time that they write to you within four weeks they'll start their enforcement process against you yeah it's fast it is fast where do you go forward with the future with all I think obviously I'm a parliamentary candidate for reform obviously this is not I'm doing this off of my own back you know this is not a reform policy at all and I want to be quite clear about that it's just something that we have to keep talking about keep talking about and not go away and eventually change will have to come what is reform for people who don't know reform what are they what do I think reform is for people who don't know what it is it's a political party um we're doing currently very well in the polls at the moment and if you ask me what do we stand for I would say common sense we're a common sense party it's what we fucking need nowadays mate and that's all the common sense seems to about the window and there's trying to normalize all the madness people the thing about human beings we can be dumbed down quite easy we can be manipulated quite easy and it's just to stay open minded just look at every angle question all question what you're saying question what I'm saying we don't have all the answers we just speak what we kind of learn through life and and that's okay but just question everything if you're struggling with child maintenance if you feel and it hits the nail in the head we go well wait a minute I didn't know that I can look into this further in fact I can just try and be an adult with my ex-partner and try and put the heads together and come to some sort of agreement where we're not getting the piss took out of is for anybody like I say which are social media links and stuff for anybody that it's maybe want to ask questions or get involved with you do you have any links yeah I've got the links and I will obviously you know people love access to those links you know that'll be down the bottom um but do you know what it's quite interesting you know being with reform I've met some amazing people really really supportive of the work that I do and that's what I've received is a lot of support you know from reform um you know the people I've met are absolutely amazing and I never never in a million years did I think that now I would be involved in politics and what I would say to anybody you know if you want to make that change do what I've done I'm nothing special I'm just a guy that's come from you know a council estate who's worked his way up who's worked incredibly hard created an own business his own business I'm no different to anybody else I haven't been to Eaton I haven't been to Oxford I haven't been to Cambridge but I think anybody who's looking to get into politics nowadays to make that change you just have to come into it with a common sense approach because we're hearing so much madness and nothing's making sense and that's what we need and I think that's what the public want at the moment it's just people who live life people who make laws who have lived life who understand the struggles and that's what I kind of want out of this interview it's for people like me to come forwards where you want to make that change that's why I got involved in politics because I saw something that was completely wrong something that was completely in just so I wanted to make a change and the only way that you can make a change and get yourself a voice is by doing it politically no for common idea how are you feeling I was a bit apprehensive obviously when I came in today I've done you know some interviews before I've obviously I've done an interview with Alex Reed great guy yeah like Alex mad bastard like this is funny man hard to hardly sleeve you see the sensitivity with him man but what a fighter he was back in the day as well great fighter great great great mix martial arts fighter but you know more importantly with Alex he's very pure he's very from the heart and Alex has been such a huge support to me you know he fully backs what I'm doing he fully agrees with what I'm doing because obviously he's had his own fight you know in the family courts and stuff like that and he's seen that injustice as well so you know he's been a massive massive support to me Alex you know he's a good friend you know we're pretty close and I genuinely think you know that he's a great guy he really is yeah so listen for coming on the day and saying everything you've said so hopefully it can open doors hopefully you can get an inquest but would you like to finish up on anything else for today okay so I just want to go over just all the bullet points yeah to refresh people's memory yep yeah so that's what I'll do so we've established that the debt of 3.798 billion pounds was created through interim maintenance assessments we now know that parents are being pursued for debts where there's no evidence to substantiate that they owe that debt the national audit office have confirmed that yeah if you think back Joshua Redway when I spoke about him we've also established that there's a lot of data out there regarding paying parents taking their own lives in comparison to resident sorry receiving parents who are the recipients of the money we also know that Sir Alan Campbell has asked for a public inquiry which has just been swept under the carpet we don't hear any of the mainstream media talking about it or highlighting that paying parents are being pursued for debts and being forced to pay money that they just don't owe and what I want out of this is for non-resident parents and receiving parents to come together and start talking out their differences and come to amicable agreements with maintenance but also find out who's been paying what and who's been receiving what because we've also established that the national audit office cannot sort out the accounts of the child maintenance service and we also know that they've refused to sign off the accounts of the child maintenance service listen thanks for coming on today and telling your story hopefully it can open up some doors hopefully there is an inquest and hopefully fathers can and mothers can sort things out and try and live a happier life and be better parents and sort things out and just everything just seems messy that seems messy of the child services just seems everything that you're saying is legit and just how fucked up and corrupt it can be and it's scary to think that innocent boys and are taking a life for pressure for a company which seems to be making money from people's pain and misery so listen come on they appreciate it I wish you all the best for future and you know if anything I can ever help with you know I'm here thanks a lot James it's been a pleasure God bless you too