 Hello there, it's Thursday at noon. I know it is Do you remember our arrangement Thursdays at noon on CFUV Are you ready to get started? What do you have in mind? What I want to do now is called first-person plural You make it sound excessively attractive That's what I have in mind The crucible will ever set the metaphor for the McCarthy era as the Salem witch hunts Like the 17th century impression of the woman accused of devil worship and witchcraft proved by accusation and association the abandonment of the assumption innocence and demand for special exemption from judicial or senior characterized the red scare of the mid 20th century United States With the formulation of the House on American activities committing in the 1940s and passing in 1950 of the McCarran act Communists living in the United States became the target of a witch hunt The sizable number of people had been and were continuing to be members of the Communist Party in the United States As a result of the Great Depression of the 1930s these working-class families and left-wing intellectuals Saw the darker side of capitalism and the collapse of prosperity throughout the Western world The religious right often co-ops the idea of family and children in popular press So what often got lost in this witch hunt is the fact that thousands of children were living under the threat of their parents being arrested in jail and executed Nothing drove this home more for the communist community than the 1953 execution of the Rosenbergs Husband and wife who were convicted of treason and put to death Leaving behind a family and a community Nancy Hood was one of these red diaper babies Growing up in Massachusetts her father Otis Hood was an active leader in the American Communist Party The decision by her parents not to go underground made her wife difficult throughout the 1950s and 60s Long after many people thought the red scare had passed It was actually 1975 before the House Un-American Activities Committee was finally dissolved Though by that time it was called the Internal Security Committee And it was illegal to be a member of the Communist Party until the mid 1960s Several movies and books have been made telling the stories of red diaper babies Nancy Hood's presentation. I've got a song Connects her personal story to the music of that time Music that was sung by American communists and leftist activists As a performer his love for music was grounded in the music during her trying childhood But has created what she calls a living history of the McCarthy era Music and storytelling are powerful ways not only to record history But also to connect people and move them to social action On today's show, we're going to talk about the role of music and story in creating social change You'll also share a sample of Nancy Hood's story and talk with her about why she has decided to tell her story at this time and in this way Is it true that there will be 14 women arrested? No sir, there'll be 39 now What is the child? The Scooty Osborn will hang Hang? Hang you said The deputy governor will permit it He says sir, he must But not sir or good for sir or good confess just to see Confess to what? That she sometimes made a compact with Lucifer and wrote her name in his black book with her blood and bound herself to torment Christians Still God's throne down and we must all worship hell forevermore, but surely you know what a jabber is Here's the problem that Mr. Proctor at open court she near chose the thought to death I'll chose you She sent her spirit out Oh Mary Mary She tried to kill me many times, Scooty Proctor Oh, I never heard you mention that before Oh, I never knew it before I never knew anything before I say to myself I must not accuse this woman For she's sleeping dishes and so very old and poor But then she sits there denying and denying And I feel a misty coldness slamming up my back And the skin of my skulls begin to creep And I feel a clump around my neck and I can not breathe air And then I hear a voice A screaming voice And it were my everything she's done to me Why, what has she done to you? So many, hi Mr. Proctor She come to this very door begging bread and a cup of cider And Mark says whatever I turn her away empty She mumble Mumble? She's a mumble and she's hungry What does she mumble? You must remember Goody Proctor last month A Monday I think You walked away and I thought my gut would burst for two days after Do you remember it? Why, I do, I... So I told that to Judge Hopper Then he asked her so They're a good city What curse do you mumble that this girl must both sit after turning you away And then she replied Why, you're excellent No curse at all, I only say my commandment I hope I may say my commandment And that's an upright doctor But then Judge Hopper said recite for us your commandment Out of all of the ten she could not say a single one She never knew no commandment and they had her in a plot lot And so, condemn her They lost when she condemned herself What, the proof, the proof I told you the proof, it's hard proof, it's hard as a rock I'll go to the court again Mary I'll tell you, sir, I will be gone every day now I'm amazed you do not see what way do you work, we do What work do you do? Please work for a Christian girl to hang old women Mr. Crocker, they will not hang if they confess their sins But only sit in jail a while From the time the American Communist Party emerged in 1919 Until it began to fall apart in the late 1940s An estimated one million Americans Immigrant workers and university intellectuals alike Were communists And although the causes they stood for, fought for And in many cases went to jail for Would hardly raise an eyebrow in today's liberated society In their time these people were considered radicals Vanguard of a new society They believed in a better life for the working class They were among the first Americans to perceive the fascist Threat of Hitler's Germany But as anti-communist hysteria swept the country Following World War II People in the communist movement found themselves Either denying their principles or defending them Before various state and federal committees They lost their friends, jobs, and sometimes even their freedom Close quote Boston Globe, Mary Thornton, April 30th, 1977 The House Un-American Activities Committee Was established in 1937 and originally investigated Groups on both the left and the right Martin Dias, the first chairman of The House Un-American Activities Committee Had ties to the Ku Klux Klan, however And it was not long before right-wing radical groups were ignored In favor of investigations of the American Communist Party And other left-winged organizations After World War II The House Un-American Activities Committee Went after Hollywood In 1947, 41 people were interviewed These friendly witnesses produced a list of 10 Hollywood playwrights And producers who were subpoenaed But refused to answer questions in front of the committee Evoking their Fifth Amendment rights The Hollywood 10, as they were eventually known Were cited in contempt of Congress And served between 6 and 12 months in prison each Another group of Hollywood producers Fearing they would be arrested and imprisoned Began naming names for the committee Over 320 people were eventually put On a list of known communists And were blacklisted from work Hollywood would not be the only target Of the House Un-American Activities Committee During the early 1950s, the committee's power grew And the Red Scare went into full swing The Soviets' acquisition of the hydrogen bomb And the Korean War fueled a frenzy of fear The enactment of the anti-communist bill Called the McCarran Act in 1950 Made life impossible for the American Communist Party The bill essentially outlawed the party And then required members to register with the government Not registering meant being fined Registering meant being harassed by the government And was tantamount to an admission of treason This era is often called the McCarthy Era But Joe came rather late to the witch hunt In 1953, McCarthy became chair of the newly created Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations Of the Senate Committee on Government Operations His tenure only lasted about 18 months As he crashed and burned with the subcommittee's Investigation of the Army By going after the military, McCarthy provoked Eisenhower Into calling for a halt of the investigations McCarthy didn't have the power to fight Eisenhower And the committee stopped its most daring witch hunts What isn't talked about often in popular histories Is that the House on American Activities Committee Continued its work on into the 1970s And that red squads in local police departments In such major cities as New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, and Boston Continued to arrest and harass members Or suspected members of the party That FBI conducted wiretaps Conducted illegal searches and surveillances Lightmailed witnesses, ruined reputations And imprisoned members or suspected members of the party Well into the 1960s By focusing on McCarthy, much of the tone And tenor of the time was lost That tone and tenor is beginning to be Recovered by the children who grew up In the midst of the witch hunt So-called red diaper babies Many of these children went on to be activists In their own right They often led anti-war and civil rights protests In the 1960s and 70s In 1998, Judy Kaplan and Lynn Shapiro Edited a volume called Red Diapers Growing up in the Communist Left The adult children of the Red Scare Shared their stories and memories of the era Including much of the difficulties of being tagged As a dirty communist In 1992, Eric Stang Produced a documentary about the stories Of five red diaper babies Folk musicians such as Pete Seeger Have kept the music from the People's Songbook That was published in 1947 Alive through concerts, albums and now CDs The written word, the spoken word And the song have recorded the history Of the Red Scare through the eyes of the children Who were affected most directly by the witch hunts Telling stories is a powerful recording Of history in virtually every human culture The personal story not only clues The listener into the teller's inner world But it also connects the teller to the listener To the extent that the story resonates With the listener's experiences The story of the red diaper babies Isn't just a story of political persecution It is a story of stigmatization and oppression It is a story of mourning the loss Of security and freedom and the consequences Of being the victim of such witch hunts There are many reasons we tell such personal stories Confessions are said to be good for the soul And many tell their personal stories in order to be healed To find peace and affirmation Others tell their stories altruistically To provide their audience with confirmation and affirmation That we are not alone We share a history and an emotional bond of suffering Stories preserve culture Stories change culture Stories remind us what worked in the past And what hurt in the past Songs ritualize stories Making them easy to recite And allowing others to share in the telling by singing along Such ceremonial recitations Keep the story alive And solidify their meanings and tellings Arthur Miller told the story of the red scare By evoking the story of the 17th century Salem witch hunt Today we will listen to Nancy Hood's story of the red scare She evokes not only her confessional history But also the rituals of songs that others from the era Can remember and reside with her She also provides a history that will be tied up With her own We are reminded of Leslie Marvin Silcoe's description of ceremony In the book entitled such I will tell you something about stories, he said They aren't just entertainment, don't be fooled They are all we have, you see All we have to fight off illness and death You don't have anything if you don't have the stories They're evil as mighty, but it can't stand up to our stories Let the stories be confused or forgotten They would like that, they would be happy Because we would be defenseless then He rubbed his belly I keep them here, he said Here, put your hand on it See, it is moving There is life here for the people And in the belly of this story The rituals and the ceremony are still growing What she said The only cure I know is a good ceremony That's what she said Giving sociology an edge! Be commonest, I shot back at the little boy In my first grade class Phillips work school, Roxbury, Massachusetts I knew I wasn't dirty And I had no clue what a commonest was But I was not about to put up with insults of any kind This incident at age 5 Is my first clear memory of the persecution That was to shape my childhood years It was 1951 and the U.S. was in the middle of the Cold War Nancy's parents, who were both communists Were soon to be targets of the anti-communist hysteria Gripping the country Joe McCarthy and his Senate committee had begun their witch hunt Of so-called subversives throughout the United States For the next five years From 1951 to 1956 We were under siege Many Communist Party leaders including Boone Our upstairs neighbors went underground to avoid arrest But Dad refused to go underground And became the spokesperson for the Communist Party In Massachusetts The FBI followed him to work and back every day They came in twos wearing wide brimmed hats And double-breasted coats And sat parked in their blue car outside our house Day and night with a spotlight And when our parents weren't at home They came to the door asking us questions And trying to get in I, a child of six, stood in the front hall The door opened to crack No, you may not come in No, I don't want to talk to you Our phone was tapped And we received phony phone calls into the wee hours Hey, commie bastard, why don't you go back to Russia? Or worse We kept a whistle by the phone And Dad turned our ringer down at night so we could sleep Someone threw a rock through the front window With my family, I marched in picket lines In defense of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg I was seven when the Rosenbergs were executed in 1953 I found Mom who never cried Weeping in the musical From then on I lived with the unspoken terror that it could happen To my Mom and Dad too The world was a dangerous place Only years later when I watched a documentary on the Rosenbergs And found myself crying and shaking uncontrollably Did I understand the full extent of my terror There was no room for the fear we felt Therefore humor became a way of survival This following wonderful tongue-in-cheek song is a good example Who's gonna investigate the man who investigates the man Who investigates Ming of 1954 Dad was arrested twice They came to the house and arrested him while he was in bed with the flu I remember standing in the hall And watching him put on his coat and hat and be taken away What was going to happen to him? Would he come back? What if they arrested Mom too? Friends of ours had been sentenced to years in jail Who would take care of us? They killed the Rosenbergs I was scared I drew pictures on the blackboard of McCarthy and Truman and Eisenhower With big noses and snot coming out And with gustowy children saying He shall be removed He shall be removed just like the garbage floating down the river He shall be... Otis was arrested again on May 20th Along with six others under the 1919 Anti-Anarchy Act This time he was allowed to go without bail They arrested the books Two wagons full from our house alone While neighbors congregated by the backyard fence to watch The police trooped through our house And carted away all the books from our attic And some from our library as well We five children hung over the porch railing Watching the officers sweating from lugging Cartons full of books down three flights There goes Tom Pamey cried There goes the Bill of Rights There goes Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln The books were locked behind bars in the Roxbury jail On the grounds that they were dangerous and subversive materials Later in 1956 when Dad was arrested along with six others Including Boone under the Smith Act And held in the Charles Street jail until bail could be raised They arrested him from his workplace Worried and not allowed to visit, I wrote Dear Dad, how are you? I hope the jail is not too stinky, love Nazi Kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss Dad responded with a puzzle drawing and reassurance that the jail was not stinky And I was not to feel sorry for him This next haunting love song was written During the struggle to save the Rosenbergs What shines from yourself What shines from yourself In 1964, Dad was among 44 communists Nationally who were ordered to register under the McCarran Act He refused, and as with all the other legal cases brought against him The charges were eventually dismissed By that time I was a sophomore at Oberlin Conservatory Where the political climate was so dramatically different That when I cautiously revealed my history, I was an instant celebrity But I needed to find my own path And therefore chose not to play a leadership role in radical student politics In a rare letter from my Dad Responding to my question Was he disappointed in my choice to pursue music instead of political activism? He wrote, no You will get involved in your own way in your own time There will be no escaping it It will be part of the world problem or part of its solution I have no doubt whatsoever Which side you will always be on Never have I regretted or blamed my parents for what I lived through These experiences have made me who I am And I am proud of my parents for standing by their beliefs As a result of living through those times I have a strong sense of injustice No tolerance of oppression And a great deal of compassion for the suffering of others I know how easy it is to lose our rights And I hope that in the telling and singing of my story I have raised awareness for some Comfort to others And encouraged each and every one of you To continue to support the civil liberties of all people Bravo I ask you in your flyer For I've got a song You talk about how you grew up as a red diaper baby Tell me what that means And tell me a little bit about what that meant In terms of your experience growing up A red diaper baby is a child of a communist At least that's what it means to me And both of my parents were members of the American Communist Party So I was born in 1946 And grew up in the efficacy McCarthy era Now they were living in Massachusetts at the time? Yes, in Boston Both my parents are from Massachusetts And my dad was the chairperson of the Communist Party of Massachusetts And when did he join the party? He joined the party during the Depression He was totally politically unaware until the Depression And he was working as an architectural sculptor He was fortunate to have worked much longer than other people did Among his friends But when that whole profession dried up He couldn't find any kind of work And found himself among the liens of jobless Americans Trying to figure out what had happened to him And that was not that rare to turn to the Communist Party during that time? Not at all This was 1933 And there were thousands who turned to the Communist Party Many who joined the Communist Party Because of the experience with the Depression and looking for answers That was what happened with my dad He was looking to understand what was going on And he started reading From my mom it was different She had gotten involved in organizing the teachers' union out in Indiana She was a Radcliffe graduate Very much an intellectual from an upper-middle-class family Where my dad came from A large working-class family outside of Boston Different backgrounds with him And for her, she was much more politically aware than he was Her brother had been a conscientious objector during World War I Had gone as a medic or assistant And wound up having a mental breakdown after he got back from the war She witnessed all of that And also he had attended a lot of the sacro and benzetti trials And would come home and discuss them at the dinner table That was a big awakening for her as a teenager Oh, wow So she kind of began to become more aware of issues And traveled and lived in France for a while when she was a young woman And became aware of fascism So all of these things converged for her With the Communist Party and the teachers' union And that was how she got involved And so they had you after World War II And the atmosphere in the United States changed quite a bit And they met and married late in life First had my sister and then three and a half years later had me And the atmosphere was already starting to change You know, being progressive, being communist, socialist In this country in the early 30s, there was a mass movement You know, things really started to shift into the 40s There was kind of a red scare that began to happen And it began to have investigations into anybody who was leftist It was the passage of the McCarran Act and the Smith Act Which outlawed the Communist Party So it was when I was five years old that the trial was going on in the Smith Act And they wound up sentencing it with 11 Communist Party leaders At the same time, there was a whole inquisition going on in Hollywood All over the country Organizations were purging themselves of anybody who was even slightly Leaning to the last out of fear of being labeled themselves When you talk about Hollywood, I guess what also coincided this time Is that there was a lot more awareness of celebrities There was better mass communication And so you were aware of these red scares In a way that might not have happened 20 years before Because of radio, because of the way that theaters reported newsreels and so forth This is true And the beginnings of television, I'm sure you didn't have a television when you were five No, we didn't have one until I was quite a bit older But no, this is true Information was certainly spread through the radio And also people were starting to be labeled and banned from radio And when TV came on from TV So singers, performers like Paul Robson and Pete Seeger Who had, you know, were enjoying popularity Along with this whole red scare Suddenly couldn't get on the air Couldn't get to perform in this country Paul Robson had to go and live in England And he was living in the Soviet Union for a while So here you are five years old And you're aware of the fact, I guess, or became more aware of the fact That these people being banned and these people being arrested Were similar to your parents Well, not only that But when the trial, Smith Act trial was going on in New York My mother was called in to testify Oh, wow So she left to testify at what was called the Foley Square trial So it was already very much touching my life Now, did you have neighbors who, you know, like kids can be cruel sometimes Were you experiencing like peers giving you trouble over this? Certainly, certainly, and that's my first story that I tell in the I've got a song program which was a boy in my first grade class Calling me a dirty communist And I didn't know what he was talking about I didn't know what a communist was All I knew was when you call somebody a dirty something, that's something bad So it was on the level of cooties for a while Yeah, right I mean, I really had no idea what he was talking about Nor did he, I'm sure You know how children are, they absorb the tension in the atmosphere So for me, some of the memories from my early childhood Are much more physical than they are sort of being able to Sort of clearly put together a whole picture It's more like I can trace back the fear right back to age three But I didn't have words for it then And so you're in school and, you know, you get into elementary school And part of what the education of elementary school is about Is teaching you about your government and being a good citizen And all of these kind of civic lessons And yet you understood the government to be Well, essentially, I guess to put it in child's terms Angry at your parents and ready to get them Did you have trouble reconciling that? I mean, on the one hand, you must have felt like Every kid does that they want their family to be good And secure and so forth And yet here you were being probably told one thing in school When experiencing a whole other thing in your life What was that like? Well, for me when I was, you know, a younger child talking Grandma school, I very clearly felt protective of my parents And there wasn't, I didn't feel tugged In terms of my allegiance at all There was a third grade teacher who we believed was working for the FBI Who would actually interrogate my sister and me and the upstairs kids Oh my gosh Because their dad had gone underground In the 50s when they started arresting a lot of communist leaders And it was kind of a decision from the heads of the Communist Party That people should go underground to avoid arrest That would be the best thing to do So our neighbor decided to do that And he was underground for three years My dad refused to go underground And believed that that was the wrong tactic To be open about his involvement in the Communist Party And to take the heat So therefore we were targets, you see Because he was the spokesperson for the Communist Party in Massachusetts I want to be clear, when you say targets You had some physical danger about this I mean people threw rocks on your home Yes They called us all hours of the night The phone would be ringing with people making threats Or just a silence So there was a feeling of danger And the FBI was following my dad everywhere And they also would come to the house and ask us questions And this teacher would ask us children where our neighbor was So there was definitely that sense That I didn't see all teachers as being her I was able to discriminate about that But there was a clear sense as a child That you could not trust anybody outside of our immediate circle with information You really had to watch out Couldn't mention people's names or divulge any information Because it was so dangerous to them It's quite a lesson to learn when you're that young That's right But I don't remember as persecuted in the school In my grandma school years as much as I was in my high school years That was a very different experience And high school had to have been a little bit after McCarthy, is that right? Yeah, well it depends how you... For me the McCarthy era continued on into the 60s I guess because then the Karen Act continued on And my dad was... the law was still in existence And they were trying to get him to... You had to register as a member of the Communist Party Of all the Communist Party without want So here was a catch-22 And for each day that you refused to register as a member of the Communist Party You were fined $10,000 And five years in jail They wanted him to register And this was in the early 60s Oh wow People he refused to register Now that's really interesting because When you hear the history of it now When you're taught the history of it You're taught that it was all over by 57, 58 Somewhere in there You're listening to First Person Plural On CFUV 101.9 FM Victoria How did music help you cope with all of this? Did you actually sing these songs? Oh yes All these songs were pretty much a part of my childhood experience And whether they were songs that I sang with my family Or songs I sang at a camp I went to My mother was a piano teacher So I heard a lot of music at home Why would we sing in a car? We sang a lot as a family And music was definitely a source of hope And solace I think it helped me with my feelings of some powerlessness We listened to a lot of recordings by the Weavers And Pete Seeker and Woody Guthrie and Paul Ropeson And went to their concerts And Pete Seeker's concerts He would get everybody singing So here we would be singing these songs That were anti-war songs And there was this incredible feeling of not being alone I imagine singing together Put together a kind of connectedness Oh yes Even if you were singing along with a recording Oh yeah, very definitely So the songs themselves are incredibly powerful for me And I've talked to other red diaper babies Who have the same experience So these songs were very much a part of our life And a part of our experience After you put together this program Have you connected very much with other red diaper babies? Is there a group of you that... There's a group of us who remain connected to each other We really became like extended family And so there's a sense that even if we don't talk to each other for a while We can kind of pick up where we left off It really is that sense And then in the process of putting this together I was in touch with a number of my childhood friends Who were extremely helpful In getting me support and editing and all of that stuff And then the first performance in May We did it at Community Church in Boston Which is a progressive church And so a lot of people came to this performance Who were part of that whole childhood circle And that's what the video is made from? That's what that video is made from So many of the people who came to that program These songs and knew this story knew my parents And so it was a very friendly place to do this first performance And it was extremely healing I think for everyone who came And now lots of folks cried and laughed And I got wonderful comments from people Have you had a good chance to... Have you had several other chances now to present your program? Right after that was asked to perform at a peace rally On the Boston Common And I did a ten minute segment That's the condensed version Right, it's a real challenge to cut and paste And then I was asked to perform a larger section of it For a Fourth of July picnic that the friends had In doing this, in marketing this, in talking this up I have come out to lots of people And people that I've known People who live in my neighborhood I've known for years But never talked politics or disclosed this about my childhood And I have been most heartened by the response I've gotten From both people that I know But not shared on this level And people that I don't know at all Who just thought, wow, this is really interesting This is really neat you're doing this Do you think that this is a timely topic to bring up now Given the war on terrorism and the... Very much so Patty Although that wasn't... I didn't know that was about to happen When I first envisioned doing this program I first envisioned doing it It was very much welling up from inside me This is something I've got to communicate to people about But that since Bush is taking office in September In his response to September 11 I have felt even more strongly that This is a story I need to tell people about Do you see similarities in the Patriot Act And what you went through in the 50s and 60s? Yeah, yeah, and it's a lot of people doing things That I have read as reference to the Second McCarthy era Certainly in the ways that people have been labeled As anti-American Anybody who has voiced opposition Labeled and vilified That kind of thing going on And there's this sort of sense of fear People being afraid to speak out Although that is shifting, I must say There is a...the peace movement here Is growing and gathering motion Which is very encouraging And these are not... Not all people who were involved in the peace movement During the Vietnam War Many of them are newcomers Who have never been politically active before So that is encouraging Have you had many young people come to Any of your presentations? Yes, I've had a real range in age From 12-year-old boys to people in their 90s Do you have a sense that younger people Are responding to this as more than just historic? I think so But I think people can respond to my story On a lot of different levels I think people can respond to my story On a level of what it's like to be persecuted As a child And that covers a wide range I wanted to ask you about the search warrant That's on the back of your pamphlet Oh, yeah I thought that was really interesting To describe on radio But the thing that struck me about it Was that it was a municipal search warrant From a municipal court So we kind of have this idea That it was the FBI doing this Or something like that This is a good point to bring up That it wasn't just the federal government It was local government that was involved In this whole process of hunting down the Reds And the police stations had red squads They were called red squads They were particularly assigned to The whole problem of the commies So basically their job was to find the commies And harass them They were assigned to I actually can't honestly answer that question I don't know what their assignments were I think they were red squads Exactly what their jobs entailed I couldn't tell you That I know that in Massachusetts They, you know, Massachusetts legislature Passed their own anti-communist act So it wasn't just federal government With the Smith Act and McCarran Act But, you know It was permeating through several levels Yes So the books were The arrest warrant that you're talking about With the warrant for the arrest of the book Yeah Which I found amusing in some ways too That it says papers, pamphlets, documents Other materials It seemed that they were afraid of the materials As much as anything else It says other materials that could be used For the purpose of advocating, advising, counseling The overthrow of the government of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Or the government of the United States of America By force and violence or other unlawful means And this seems pretty antithetical to freedom of speech Well, yes And what's interesting is that they had arrested, you know Documents like the Bill of Rights And writings by, you know, Thomas Jefferson And Abraham Lincoln And all Marxist dogma That they had arrested That's just amazing Well, you know It remains, I guess, threatening to the sitting government To think of being connected to the people And responsible to the people Well, I want to thank you for talking with me And I wish you much luck with this Thank you, Patty, and thank you for your interest And maybe we'll generate some interest in Is it okay to put your information up on our website? Sure Your phone number and your email? Mm-hmm Okay We'll do that and see if some other people can hear your story I think it's an important story you're telling Mm-hmm And I'm very happy that you shared it with us You have been listening to First Person Plural On CFUV101.9 FM In Victoria, British Columbia Simulcast it on 104.3 cable And cfuv.uvic.ca First Person Plural is produced weekly By Dr. Patty Thomas and Carl Wilkerson Music for First Person Plural is composed, performed And produced by Carl Wilkerson For more information about First Person Plural Or Patty Thomas and Carl Wilkerson Visit our website CulturalConstructionCompany.com