 on Think Tech Live, broadcasting from our downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii, and Moana, New Ikea. Today we're looking at no arbitrary arrests, detention or exile, Article 9, freedom from all in our world, and we're joined by an amazing advocate who works with Amnesty International, who is the Regional Development Director. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights guarantees everyone on earth deserves not being subjected to arbitrary arrests, detention or exile, and the UDHR Article 9 guarantees no unfair detainment for those defending our collective democracy and individual dignity. Aditya, can you share with us a bit on why this issue is so important in international human rights law? Sure. Thank you for having me. The importance of this is that not only is it about individual dignity at the very core essence of it. In other words, what happens to us as individuals, but it's also a critical protection for people who are ensuring that the other rights, that the rights of others behave in a free and dignified manner are being protected. So for example, if you were arrested, say, for taking on a case or making a human rights declaration, and I was defending you, and then I was detained, not only would my rights be violated, but also your ability to get protection and to get representation would also be undermined. So it has a cascading effect, which then creates a whole undermining of civil society and respect for human rights. It's really true. It kind of is that the beginning thread. And if you start pulling it, you could see how everything that keeps us warm and makes the world a welcoming place in this rule of law would actually unravel without that. Can you also share a bit on how this right is central and core to the global arena in the world that we face today? Yes. Well, at first I'd like to point out that this right was actually the founding principle of our organization Amnesty International. In 1960-61, there were two students who were simply toasting freedom in Lisbon, Portugal, during the Salazar administration at a bar. I mean, how threatening could that be? And they were detained and arrested, and that led to the lawyer Peter Benison, our founder, basically saying this was unacceptable. But at the moment, I would argue that this fundamental freedom of not being arbitrarily arrest, detained, or exiled is basically being challenged and undermined by the rise of authoritarian governments in various parts of the world. The restrictions that are placed in terms of trying to crush pro-democracy activists, or just human rights activists, or even journalists. So, in other words, it's a critical threat to the flow of information. And the flow of information is essential to people knowing what's going on and of course what they can do about it. And I think that this is why we see the use of detention rising in many places. This is why governments are using, they use trumped-up charges or they will sometimes not even bother charging people, but they'll just hold them. And their hope is that they will wear people down or just make people forget them. And that by doing that, you can basically silence the scrutiny of your behavior or people challenging your policies. No, I really appreciate you bringing up that example of the spark that really lit the candle for Amnesty International. And it's one of the traditions we do at the end of one of the trainings that we always get to have that toast to freedom. And it's that most basic nature described. It could be as innocent as students toasting freedom and then having those rights. But then it is exciting how it inspires others to take action as well, because we understand how all of our rights are interconnected. And if anyone's rights are challenged, then all of our rights are threatened as well. One thing that always inspires me is when you look about how people get involved, can you share with me a bit about what first inspired you to care about this issue and some of the first campaigns you were involved in? Absolutely. The human connection that you refer to is so fundamentally powerful. It makes a distant country or an issue real, especially when you can say this individual is just like me. They're not some powerful person or they're not so different that they don't deserve to be able to express themselves in a nonviolent manner with complete freedom. In other words, how would you like to be treated? How would I like to be treated? That was certainly a core draw for me when I joined Amnesty back in 1994 that what we were doing as an organization was not only personalizing human rights, but we were also personalizing the response. Because what we have done is basically taking these cases of people being arbitrarily arrested and detained and turning them into challenges or opportunities for people to engage in and work in solidarity for people they may never meet or may never be able to have a conversation with. That work has been core to the organization and been so important to me that I think when I think of the time working here I can think of big campaigns which are amalgamation of individual cases and I could also think of individual campaigns. One of the first ones that I would refer to would be that of Ken Sarawiewa and the Ogoni Nine. These were Nigerian environmental activists who were detained and then eventually executed by General Sani Abacha who was the military dictator at the time in the late 1990s and they had done nothing. They were framed for the murder of four chiefs but their mistake was that they had basically said that shell oil was polluting not only polluting their environment but also was colluding with the government to basically intimidate and harass people in that region and I think that that campaign really crystallized the link between the environment and rights. It crystallized the focus on the role of multinational oil corporations in some cases in a very very negative light and it also I think birthed many many new activists who were like you know what we cannot continue doing business as usual and filling up the tanks of our cars when these companies are doing such terrible human rights violations. That was one case I think that really came to mind as one of you know the one that shaped me. There are some others I think that are known to many people. Aung San Suu Kyi of course was a long time Amnesty prisoner of conscience and that is a categorization that we have for some of these individual cases of detention but Aung San Suu Kyi I think you probably remember or be a Kadir who was a you know the Uyghur business woman and in those cases we actually got to meet them when they were released and you you know people say human rights work is is very very hard and you have your victories far and few between but when you do and when you meet someone like a Rabbi Kadir or even Aung San Suu Kyi it makes it makes an impact on you you suddenly realize that there is something that has been strengthened inside yourself just by working on that case and meeting that individual and they and they literally will tell you thank you you know the postcards made a difference the letters made a difference just knowing that there were people paying attention probably saved my life or saved me from being tortured. That's an excellent example and definitely a walk down memory lane for me as well. I remember writing my first letters in college with Amnesty International and sending them off and then being at a training I think it was focusing at the area coordinator but also the one for experts on specific countries and then to meet a person who I wrote the letter for and actually see them in person and it brings tears to your eyes when they say your letter made that difference I am free today because of you and that was unbelievable and now as you mentioned Rabiya also writing letters for her and then later being able to assist her in Geneva during the Universal Periodic Review of China and working on speeches with her and seeing China still trying to manipulate even the UN human rights mechanisms to not allow her to come into the Palais de Nacion and work with her so even once we get them released it continues and then your example of Kensar Wewa that was one of the greatest experiences when I was at that point just the area coordinator and we created that resolution that then created the Just Earth campaign between Sierra Club and Amnesty and those first campaigns the meetings of Minnesota with Indigenous peoples and connecting environment and human rights which all of us knew were interconnected but had not seen that really diligent determined campaign and that was exciting to host those first couple of meetings between Amnesty, Sierra Club and of course Kensar Wewa I remember working with UN, PO, Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization and later working with Owens Wewa his brother was a medical doctor on Maui and still raising issues here with Shell in Hawaii and it really is so much that has happened and the way you put it that people are thinking about filling up their gas tank and the consequences and connecting those dots and showing how we're all in a way complicit but we all can be catalysts for change that really does remind me of even Myanmar and the struggle today as all those people are seeing it high turning and able to hopefully one day be able to achieve what Aung San Suu Kyi had dedicated her life to so it is exciting and it's even during COP when you talked about it that issue is on the negotiation table that's in the global stock take based on the Paris agreement so it is exciting to see what you were talking about those drops of knowledge those drops of determination being able to now shape international instruments and institutions well and I think one of the other things that you know I would also say is that case work around individual detention is bipartisan is too small but you but it's something that when there's an individual and you and people really learn the story of what they've done and and how unfairly they're being treated there it actually does break down barriers one of the things that I know you you've been involved in of course is with the Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission in Congress which is a bipartisan congressional body in the House of Representatives that just works on human rights one of the strongest projects that they've done is called defending freedoms and it is literally about pairing a member of Congress with a case of a prisoner of conscience and and it has proven to be incredibly powerful because it allows constituents to develop a relationship with a member of Congress it allows the member of Congress to become a champion for that individual and it you know it can go from making a statement like oh I'm thinking about so-and-so today who's still in jail to sponsoring a resolution to even visiting the country and demanding to go and visit that person in other words it's flexible what people can do and it also begins at the journey which of course is fundamental about learning about the issue in other words working on the case of of an individual will teach you why is that individual at risk what are they fighting for and why is it important to change the larger context and I think that that's fundamental to human rights work that's why these cases are so important that really is an excellent example in Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission that's crucial because just recently the new representative from Hawaii and the second district Jill Takuta agreed to join the Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission and participate and that's due to the great work of Ben Chow to be able to say why this is important and as you're describing that it's also good to look at the Senate because the Senate has created that new human rights caucus and Senator Maisie Hirono has also signed on as well so it's great to see Hawaii of our four members having two of them actively engaging in this process and as you said there's a whole array of advocacy tools that's possible that they can sharpen it's a speech on the floor it's a letter it's a congressional visit and it's also exciting when we see what we can do I know there's the right for rights campaign can you share a bit how everyday people can either participate through Amnesty International or participate by adopting and working with prisoners of conscience to show how valuable this important right is absolutely and it's and wonderful showing from your congressional leadership and being engaged like that that's wonderful attribute to all of you so you refer to something called right for rights which is an annual campaign that the our movement does globally so it's not just here in the United States it's literally every member of Amnesty International between the end of October and the end of January all work on the the same 10 cases sometimes 12 sometimes 14 but these are cases that are from all over the world they cover all sorts of different individuals and sometimes communities that that may be facing a risk the organization will develop what we call a toolkit so that you have background information you have model letters that you can use or model postcards that you can you can write for yourself or you can click and and send send them electronically but what we do is basically try to maximize pressure to get traction on these 10 cases now of course as we said that the 10 cases are indicative of a larger human rights issue and so they're educational tools as well and you can you can take part in this anywhere you can take part in it as a group by organizing an event yourself or by locating a local Amnesty chapter or you can go to the Amnesty USA website www.annestyusa.org and click on the write for rights tab and you can the the the the different cases are there along with the different letters and you can personalize them and it you know it sounds too neat and too easy maybe or it sounds like what kind of impact is this going to have and and yet it does um we have had people released because of right rights cases because you you've got to remember that you're not just one voice you're part of 40 or 50 countries where Amnesty members are sending letters on that same individual now just think of what it would be like to be sitting there and suddenly your inbox crashes because everybody that you can think of is writing to you about the person that you are detaining or or in some cases your your suddenly your mailbox your mailman shows up with a bag of 500 letters 600 letters. I remember this wonderful activist Dr. Taiye he was a member of the Ethiopian Teachers Federation who was jailed for about six years and when he was finally released he came to the United States and he said he always knew before um an Amnesty campaign that there was the campaign because the guards would come and tell him your your friends are making noise again or and and he you know he was removed he was moved from solitary confinement to a regular cell his treatment improved and and you know he said you cannot overestimate how important those changes are because everything about detention is to break you and and if they if you think that you're alone then it's much easier for them to break you and I remember that so taking part in the right for rights campaign during this period is very fun it's it's exciting but you can do that throughout the year because we also have an individuals at risk network where you can also find information and those go on throughout the year and you can form as I said you can find groups in your region or in your town and you might be able to do some things together with them so that you know it it it does not have to be a huge operation but it can also be as creative as you want it to be. No it's a it's an excellent tool and it reminds me of the I just got one yesterday from Canada and it actually goes back sort of to what we're looking at with the UN Framework Commission on Climate Change it's looking at two elders from Torres Strait Islands of Australia and talking about rising sea level and and it's important to fill and build on the case they brought to the UN Human Rights Committee under the international covenant civil and political rights but it's exciting to see how amnesty has also really evolved I remember when you couldn't work on your own country under WUK I was mainly civil and political rights but really that evolution to include economic social and cultural civil and political can you share how amnesty have you seen it change in the positive transformation to really make a difference in the world as a global movement. Oh you're so right I mean the organization that you and I joined has has evolved and it had to I think one of the the biggest things was you know everybody thinks of anyone who knows about amnesty will think oh it's an organization that started in the United Kingdom and it's based in the United Kingdom well it still has a large chunk of staff in the United Kingdom but in the 2000s it decentralized and it has set up research and campaigning offices in in different locations around the world and that's been incredibly important to not only become a real genuine member of civil society in those regions but also to have more diverse staff and partners so that the organization really is no no longer a quote unquote western organized human rights organization that was one thing the the next big thing which you already referred to is this work on ESCR economic social and cultural rights which is you know has basically enabled us to work on evictions and housing it's enabled us to work on climate and and economics it's enabled us to work on access to health and arguably even abortion rights can be seen as an ESCR ESCR issue amongst others the organization I think has had has learned that even discussions about conditions for elections which was also a taboo you may remember we we said you know no elections no politics nothing we're just human rights and a lot of our partners said that doesn't make sense you know you you can't ignore the political context and how it drives human rights violations and that's changed and it's it's it's changed in other parts of the world and it's influencing how the whole organization approaches the ability to campaign the ability to speak freely the ability to be in opposition and not be detained or beaten up or intimidated and it's coming also it's changing the way we do work here in the United States but I think I would just say that the work on the environment has probably been the most powerful evidence of this evolution you know we we many of the abuses that we work on and the people who are being detained are as a result of climate change injustice or climate change induced poverty and competition and conflict and you can't just take care of the symptoms you have to address the root cause and that's changing climate policy and so I think that that that's really exciting and I and I I suspect the organization will continue to evolve you know because human dignity has to manifest itself in so many different ways and it has to be protected as creatively as possible and maybe you can share because I just described that example it reminded me of the annual general membership meeting in San Diego and that powerful panel on abortion as a human right maybe you can share what the AGM is and how that functions and how amnesty makes decisions to make a difference yes so the AGM the annual general meeting happens usually in February every year it literally is what it says a meeting of amnesty members but also people it's open to the public and there are our panels different discussion groups and caucuses to discuss the whole range of the organization's business from specific cases or a particular crisis in a region to you know how do you organize yourself and a group in a high school you know what are the skill sets that you need and what are the resources you know it's it it really is a marketplace also of ideas like so many of these AGMs are where people decide well why don't we try this and someone will say yes no do it this way and then suddenly three months later you've got a wonderful successful campaign that's happening in a number of different places the next one is going to be in Washington DC and it's going to be followed by what we call a lobby day where amnesty members will be able to go up and meet their congressional representatives to talk to them about human rights concerns and that's also something that evolved you know with the organization in in the past amnesty did not do anything beyond basic interaction with the US government but now we've realized that you need to have human rights champions in the government to keep the US government accountable but also to keep the US as a force for human rights and so we do lobbying we train people we give them materials we help them organize the meetings and then you know we we we basically say go and have a good meeting and remember you're you're cultivating a relationship so those are the kinds of things that people can do and of course you can learn more on the website you know www.amnestyusa.org or you know for those of you in Hawaii you can find Josh who is a savant and a mentor for many of us and and find out how you can get involved but we are we're in some very difficult difficult times right now and this is when we need to come together and hold each other up and take care of each other and working on this particular human rights issue of detention and exile and um is is so fundamental but it's just the start and it can lead to so much more so um looking forward to helping and answering any other questions that might come up later but this is great to have this discussion. No it's really powerful because it reminds of of all the different ways that people participate in it's that flame of freedom and it's sort of like a muscle and if we don't exercise our democracy muscle and we don't get involved in politics then bad things usually happen and so as you describe that it also shows why the UDHR is such a powerful tool because it outlines those opportunities for a new way forward for our world and Article 9 serves as that valuable vision rooted in the rule of law with basic right it's fundamental freedoms ensuring those freedoms and dignity for all maybe in the final moment you can share with us a bit of your vision for the future of this right and potential paths to respect protect and fulfill these rights on the ground and around our planet. Sure I think that the that arbitrary detention needs to be exposed for what it is which is not the prerogative of government as a but it's a violation that governments cannot be allowed to get away with I think in too many parts of the world people assume that the governments have the right to detain you and then answer questions later that until we we change that fundamental orientation where we're going to be playing defense and and that is not where we want to stay we have a wonderful human rights education program that is developing learning learning tools or modules for people to use and is also training msd members to to be traders you know we because that's not only how we tilt the balance in terms of orientation but it's also how we build the movement because if people don't feel like they have the right to speak and speak freely then they're always going to accept constraints and that is exactly what we need to change so building on our human rights education work working in partnership with with more impacted communities and other organizations I think are going to be fundamental and I think that that's what we're trying to do now and of course continuing to evolve to have a full spectrum of human rights but I I'm optimistic that the organization is going to continue to play a critical role but we need to up our game here in the United States as well as domestically that's really so succinct but so sincere because it's countering a culture of fear but then cultivating that culture of conscience and courage and compassion for one another and that really summarizes article nine that recognizes everyone's everywhere is entitled to those basic rights and no one should be subjected arbitrary arrest attention or exile and also the world amnesty international is done as a champion for core values and a voice for people around the planet mahalo attitude so good to see you I'll never forget coming out of covid and seeing you in dc on capitol hill reminding me that the world was all coming back to normal again and it was great to reunite with you because I had never been two years away from you during any period of time for around the last decade and I've always admired your work on capitol hill for many people around the planet mahalo