 Thank you very much for that intro. Welcome everyone. Lovely to see you all. Hi, I am Leo Harvman. I am a Program Development Advisor at UCL since about a year and a half. So there didn't used to be any such a thing at UCL until then. And now my colleague Karen and I have been doing it for a while. We've just about figured out what it is. Did you want to Yes, well I'm Karen Schackelford Caesar and like Leo I'm a Program Development Advisor and we're in a small team within the Academic Development Unit at UCL which is called UCL Arena Center. And we've been engaged with doing program development as devised I think by Professor Simon Walker who brought us over from digital education into his team at that time a year and a bit ago. So this is what we're doing. So yeah, so we thought we'd give a quick overview of this. The program development unit, sometimes we call ourselves unit, sometimes team. We are a sort of subgroup within the wider academic development group and the idea was that we wanted to provide some support, some encouragement and some inspiration to people that were developing brand new programs in a more of a consistent way. So that's kind of the consistency of our title. So in other words having a bit more of a structured process than just well there's a whole bunch of forms that you have to fill in. Of course there are a whole bunch of forms that they have to fill in and that is one of the kind of I guess one of the challenges of our work is to try and help do things that which are going to help people with the processes of putting together all the paperwork that they need to complete in order to go through the processes to have their new programs approved. And part of the reason that people I think will say that their engagement with us has been worthwhile is if they feel that we have helped them achieve that process. But we also wanted them to think a bit outside of just what's on the form. So we're sort of trying to do a bit of both things. So some key things that we offer in this service are a program design workshop which is kind of quite a quite an initial stage of people saying we've got this idea for a new program and it's kind of a bit more embryonic. Usually they might come to us at different times and and then we also tend to work with people who are at a more advanced stage usually post approval when the powers that they have said yeah great do this program we want you to do it then we then we tend to do a learning design workshop with them which is the famous ABC workshop that was developed by our colleagues at Clive Young and Natasha Parovich. And that was a kind of a piece of our work that we brought with us from digital education. So in a sense is because we were doing that kind of learning design work with people that they were interested in moving us over to start doing this program development work. But one of the interesting things about this for us has been how not very digital our work has become and and how we feel like something is missing like it was almost as if there was a sense that if you bring in these digital people to do this then they'll automatically be able to infuse some sort of good digitalness into what people are going to produce. And but actually what we find is you're working with people where you have very kind of short you have you have a very short space of time when you have their attention and can get them to do stuff and they are concerned about what is the next hurdle they have to pass and the program design workshop stage and we also potentially offer other activities to them at that time but usually they don't want to do a whole bunch of stuff they want to do that workshop and they want to get the paperwork in and get the thing for approval. You know and so it's like this is essentially what we are thinking about thinking with you today in this workshop is how can we make a useful early intervention to think about digital at that early stage of the program so that it is not isn't only later on when they come and do an ABC workshop with us and we started to do some learning design around the actual modules that they're planning to develop into full full pieces of teaching and learning that we say and what kind of what are the digital elements and why would you be using them because in some ways at the state when we get to that stage a lot of their decisions have already been made so I hope that that's kind of putting it in terms that are clear enough about what our dilemma is so yeah so we kind of mentioned already about this that previously we were members of the digital education we were a team called the advisory team and that was basically what it sounds like people wanted advice about anything and everything when we mentioned we meant to know it and and I remember one day I sent Karen a message saying oh how's work today and she said it's the usual it's like trying to mow an infinite field and and that was really what that job felt like there was it could it could be anything it was about everything and so to move to into doing something that was more focused and more kind of you know a bit a bit more specific and not necessarily all about anyone and everyone's needs but more about thinking about you know the particular working with particular groups on supporting them was um was quite exciting um but but you know not as not it wasn't turns out it's not as easy as it sounds we thought like oh it'd be great we'd only focus on these things um but um but there that there are there do continue to be um to be challenges here but we wanted we wanted to um you know thinking in terms of this curriculum design it's not it doesn't tend to be a formal activity and there is little support form or informal or informal provided at most higher education institutions um we we wanted to make sure that we are doing this and not just helping people do their paperwork so um sorry I'm just realizing that I've said already some of the things that are on these slides so we were just trying to make sure that we are presenting presenting the opportunity for people to think in the initial stages about the overall um overview of their of their program um and um and then later work with us on more of a classic learning design of actual modules and so we normally do this um you know we meet with them initially just kind of scope it out program design workshop maybe that can be more than one um they can have a session with students who do a quality review of the of the the documentation that they've written um which the students are not necessarily from their discipline but they are trained in looking for um what what they think a good program document program proposal is meant to look like and ask them some um some tricky questions um we use sometimes use a tool a tool known as the chart tool um which um it's sort of um similar in some ways but more of a light touch thing I guess to the tester process if you're familiar with that so we're looking at what are all the what's all the assessment that you've got across your program and um when is it happening what are the different kinds um and so that's sort of looking at the variety and also the bunching and our things happening or like you're making all the students do all these assessments in the same week and things like that and trying to avoid some some pitfalls there um and um and so we also have various kinds of um potential activities that we can do that we that we offer but people don't necessarily take up around taking deeper dives into areas um so like it's more more thinking about assessment or employability um UCL's connected curriculum which is all around kind of connecting um learning with um research and thinking students thinking about students as researchers um and um sustainability other kinds of topics that that we would like to work with people on but usually that they want to do more the core activities and kind of because you know everybody is very busy so this is sort of a typical um pathway through the kind of um process not every single program does it's always a little bit different in in every case but um somebody might think I'm going to do a new program I have a kind of pre workshop meeting with us um they put together an initial like very kind of quick thing about the finance and business case and that's a new a new a new stage um so they have to kind of clear that they're supposed to clear that before they come and do program design even and um and sometimes we feel like actually the program design is kind of the part where you're going to help them to figure out what the what the program is um and what might have been useful before they doing that but it's you know that's tricky um then they're doing paperwork after they've done program design with us might have student quality review there um paperwork approves approved might do more program design activities with us here but not necessarily program is approved now they might do learning design usually they're quite keen on doing learning design and maybe um chart tool um while they're doing the module design and development so yeah so it's that abc workshop stages you can see this is quite far along in the process when we do most of our work around um thinking about the digital and blended kind of aspects of the learning that they're designing the paperwork will tend to define in not in great detail but in some detail what's all the assessment for example so then you kind of come to that stage and they're like well we've already decided some of these things and it's kind of tricky to unpick it now because we'd have to put things back through and say can you we make a module amendment and all that and um and I don't know about where other people work but that process is very very long and they're like we really don't want to amend anything and um and we we kind of understand that um so I'm going to hand over Karen to explain um our program design workshop one kind of the way that the the classic version that we currently do um because what we're ultimately thinking is how do we insert some digital thinking into that workshop I'll hand over to you Karen. All right so um our program design workshop one uh basically we've had a pre-meeting with a program team or typically we have a pre-meeting with the program initiator and our program lead and maybe uh somebody who somebody else from their faculty or department who's closely affiliated with the program that's being thought thought about um so they tell us at that meeting what their vision is for the program what what they're thinking is where they're at if they've started looking at the what we call the p-map documentation um or not and based on what they say um we take them into we offer them our program design workshop one which is slightly kind of like a tap us menu um we have a kind of folder with activities and we can slip activities in or out depending on what ground they may have already covered before they meet with us as a larger program team so imagine yourselves as a program team and you're sitting around tables possibly um related to what your teacher of people that you've taught with in the past or you know but anyway you're you're a jumble of people who are going to be working on the same program um so in the room we would have the program initiator our lead as I said they're absolutely essential to the process uh then we have academic staff who maybe people who teach on modules that are likely to be pulled into the program or might have something to do with new modules to be developed for that program um we might bring in the departmental administrator or somebody who's a program administrator to give some feedback on some of the things around running a program that the academics themselves may not be aware of but will impact on how they design the program uh you might bring in their learning technologies to the department or faculty has won and all our faculties now have a person called a faculty learning technology lead um and they're welcome to come sometimes a careers consultant is available possibly at their faculty's marketing guru so you've got all this kind of knowledge and background at tables in the room so in the groups um the groups are quite arbitrary we ask people to summarize the program vision in 50 words this is where you kind of separate the sheep from the goats because you often find that whereas the initiator has one vision he may or she or she may or may not have been particularly successful in conveying that vision to everyone else in the room so you can end up with some images which do not reflect uh what the lead thought the program was about and so that's an opportunity to start discussing well okay what is the program about really um uh can go back sorry I just thought we should show the actual um yeah and uh yeah so then uh then we go on to so the first page was a vision um this this is a sort of copy of the um the slides and a mix with the we also give them a workbook so they can write down their thinking as we go through the discussions so with regards to the vision we then say well okay what are the key elements of this program that you want prospective students to know um what are the adjectives so that will characterize it so they choose uh the top 10 in groups again and then at the end of the discussion within the group uh everybody presents their top 10 at each table and then they decide what the ultimate top 10 are going to be going forward and that can be used in marketing so here we'd have the top 10 on display here um the next discussion that we have is what do we know about our students or in this case prospective students so we discuss here who are we actually aiming to bring into this program um and what are they coming in with what's their background um what do we want them to know on the way out how will we have transformed them um what will prerequisites be um and this can be a good conversation to have both with the marketing person the careers person and um or the other people in the room uh because uh you can find again that not everybody was thinking of the same group of people coming into the program uh we had one workshop where the initiative where I asked the question so with regards to widening participation how are you thinking of bringing more people onto this program and then program initiative said we're not worried about widening participation um and um somebody else in the group said oh yes we are of course we want to widen participation yeah we need to bring more people in uh so okay so how are you going to do that so I said well what are your prerequisites and this went through a list and the list included chem a level chemistry and then someone piped up a level why did they need a level chemistry and everybody sort of went silent and had a moment's thought and then they said well they don't really need a level chemistry so why are we saying that that's a prerequisite okay we'll scrap a level chemistry um but there are lots of things that could have just gone through automatically without any thought going into it so just getting them in a room to talk about very simple basic questions that everybody thought the answer was already known uh can actually reveal that many things have not been thought through uh and now can be you know thought about and uh decided so we have that discussion and then the next one is what's distinctive about the program this is another one where the marketing person is quite useful um kind of because they can give an insight as to whether the institution is already offering programs of this ilk because we don't want to be stealing students from each other whether the name given to the program has any traction in the marketplace we had one program where um uh they were doing something with brain science and the marketing person said well you have to have neuroscience in the name brain science is not anything that anyone's googling anywhere so they'll never find you so neuroscience had to be in the name and I think there was some displace about whether it was applied or something else um and which one came which word had to come first and so on so little things like that were that other the academics probably who cares um but the marketing person oh yeah you care if you want students you care um so things like that uh so why the program why now are you looking to fill a gap in the market or is this same old same old that multiple institutions are doing um our similar programs being offered by competitors what is going to make the program stand out if that's the case is there something unique about it do you have some sort of placement um is it a new way of teaching um how are you going to attract students to the program um do you have any connections with prospective employers and here your careers person in the room can contribute um to what they know um is there issues around uh overseas students what proportion of them are you hoping to attract what promotions are you going to use what channels are you going to use to promote this program and all of those kinds of questions um and then uh we go on to possibly how the program is structured um so uh this will probably look kind of familiar if not the diagram the idea is how many modules will students do in pro in term one two and three how many credits will those modules have and if it's an undergraduate um program that will have multiple years if it's a postgraduate program it will probably have one year this is a typical thing though some master's programs do have 18 months or two years so there's some discussion about that if they're bringing in modules that already exist um where will they be placed um do they have permission to use modules from other departments in their program um new modules how many of those do they plan to develop um teaching staff do they have enough how many numbers all of those questions around the practicality of actually making this program land in the real world um and then we look at program outcomes this is this tends to become homework and then we might need to again or exchange emails or beyond teams to discuss kind of what the program learning outcomes are going to be um so uh those categories uh sort of loosely based on Bloom's work and the work of uh some other authors and researchers on kind of categorizing outcomes um and it's something of a of an art to actually write good program level learning outcomes and we have a workshop in that as well if they want help some programs are going to be accredited so the accrediting body may already have established what the program learning outcomes need to be um and then we can piggyback on those and they might want more help with breaking that down into module learning outcomes and so on so we can help with that um and then we have a bit of time for coming up with an action plan uh led by the program initiator or lead as to what the next steps need to be um and then they can assign them to members of the program development team uh and um then we encourage them to give us some feedback on how the workshop went for them and whether we let them know what other option what other activities they can do as follow-ups um and uh yeah and then we let them go after three hours of hard work and argument we also give them lunch right so over to you so thanks Karen so it's at this point now now that we've welcomed you to our world um that um we want to ask you to think think yourselves into our shoes um and help us devise an activity that helps teams to think about how to design intentionally blended programs um so in other words one of the tensions that we think quite often happens in when when we don't think about this early on is that people will default to a version of um blended which is actually where you have technology enhanced admin what technology enhanced learning as such um and that's kind of what we what we are hoping to um to kind of steer them away from early on so so thinking about who our workshop attendee is when they're coming to workshop one they think they're they're really thinking about the big picture um they don't know the details of exactly which modules probably they have what the content is or what the assessment's going to be they haven't done the learning design to design the modules yet and they may not really have heard of the some of the ideas that we introduced in there about there being six different learning types that are based on lower large conversational framework so this is some of this is kind of key knowledge that will help them in thinking about blended learning later on um but they're not kind of ready to do that yet to stage yet um and we might have the ones that really only want to use technology for to support the admin processes because that might just be what that you know what they've been used to in the things that they've been involved with already um and um and you might have also have um potentially and this is rarer I would say they're kind of really enthusiastic people that just want to introduce kind of new and cool things that they think are are kind of fun to have um but they but you know so maybe this just pops up just in this module and we might you know that might be okay depending on kind of what's the learning curve for students to to learn it or you know what um what are they getting out of it and is it worth them getting that out of it um but it might be nice so that they're thinking more in terms of um things that things that are actually there people are going to actually build their skills and their um knowledge of overtime and um so so what we would love for the impact to eventually be if we were going to have some kind of activity in the program design workshop is um that they will be thinking about technology something to support active blended learning um so they might be thinking maybe they want to have some kind of signature technologies they don't have to think what they are yet but you know like there could be ones that maybe will recur across some of the modules of this program or always be used um and um and they will be clearly understand what the purpose of the technology is that they're that they're choosing um and they will be giving consideration to the support or the kind of learning curve involved in the tech mix that they're choosing um so this isn't something that they're going to think about in the in this you know workshop one with us this is what this is where where they want them to get to eventually but we want to start them on that journey towards thinking about these things so we're thinking maybe we could put an activity where they're going to think about moving towards this direction um where they're going to have about 10 15 minutes in the workshop so like if you think back to the slides that we showed you before with our other kind of prompts which are you know very very much prompting them to have a discussion about it and come up with some things that they believe in what would the activity be so over to you please um get together with your neighbors and um and have a have a chat about it um have some post-it notes and um paper if you want to scroll some things down and um I think we we can have 15 minutes probably about that's more realistic than longer we've got half an hour but we want to report back as oh yeah yeah right yeah 20 minutes yeah uh do you want more paper because um that we put paper on these tables we weren't we're very pleased to see that so many came but we want that there's there's more paper on this table has a bit of a scary part really so um we grab two sheets from here okay I'll take it to the table over there okay um I mean that's a short summary of it like not just accidentally obviously it's every time now I've been there and done all that I want to like I want to jeopardize other people's conversations with my bitter experience thank you thanks very much for that it's really interesting to see it and think yeah we did that yes we didn't have a liable that there is a solution to say they've done a lot and get on we still ended up being in the um in the the linguists the academic linguists we like because we don't do anything digital and so we weren't allowed to do the stuff that we wanted to make I think actually to be fair since I've left things have improved that's because I'm not learning all the time oh was it the pandemic well I left just as the pandemic sort of hit yeah so the pandemic probably you know we've been both with the mindsets again we're doing all of these things we have our signature privileges we have our language centre yeah yeah and despite the fact that we have the most now in our status but they must have come around but this will say they have no choice they have to listen to what's going on and then we'd get emails saying what did you just whistle and say we're going to totally do this bye so we can ask people So, at the end, as you said, 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes. So that takes us to five past now. So that would take us to, that would give us 10 minutes, to talk about what they're thinking on the matter. And then maybe do we have five minutes or so after that? Well, questions might come up, you know, sort of, you know, because we can ask, I mean, they have a question. And then they might have questions about ABC. Or chat. Yeah, but then you didn't really want to give them too much information to have something, you know, you want to see what it would ferment without having too many things to, because if you present somebody with an idea and then say, now go and think of your own idea, you always go back to the idea you've just been told. And you try to patent a new idea of the one that you've just heard. So it's that ear week that you can't get rid of. So I don't think it should be a problem. Okay, so the next. But. Is there any way that we can do something about it? Is there any way that we can do something about it? Because if you're hitting people that you think you can do something about it, then it's when it's done, I guess. Well we're thinking that most of the people who have teaching roles will have modules that they're teaching now. So developing this new program is on top of their regular work. So they are already using learning technologies in their modules. It's just that they probably haven't thought of how their use impacts on the rest of the program from a student perspective. And that's the shift in their thinking we're trying to get them to make. That's why I'm saying that we can get them to experience it when it's a student example. It's true. You could almost put this on. Oh god. I don't know. I don't think so. We do run this workshop online if needs be, but it's one workshop. We use Jamboard. Basically just to get them talking. But we usually do it. If it's online, it has to be shorter. We're all called doing stuff online. And actually they're a brand new program team that they haven't even written the documentation of what that's their program about yet. Probably hardly know each other. You know, it's like actually coming in and having a having some delicious institutional sandwiches and a chat and then doing the workshop together and all this can be quite a good kind of experience for, you know, forming their relationships and getting them to work as a team and all that. It's harder to kind of, you know, online always feels like a meeting. I just think that it's so much easier to put yourself as a student when you're being a student and when you have to come in. I mean, the idea that I'm getting my head from what you're saying is trying to put this put academics in the students shoes and to experience being in different modules and having in different experiences in the learning environment online in the different modules and finding a slightly confusing and inconsistent and seeing, you know, assessments in one module over here. But I'm not sure quite because we need to give them that sense of confusion in like five minutes. And maybe maybe it's a video. It's problematic. Well, we don't really want them to get embroiled in worrying in worrying about things that they have no impact all over the password stuff on getting lost in the library. Yeah, but yeah, but things like it's a kind of sort of like some sort of techno enthusiast who might have their students using blogs and have them using a wiki and have them using any number of and needing to go on Twitter and create, you know, sort of like so people who are really enthusiastic and really want to be creative in their teaching but the students are overwhelmed by the number of different technologies that have to get that get their heads around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's another project. So assessment option to research project with some other other universities. That's interesting. Sometimes the academics are more enthusiastic about it than the students are. But I think that that's also a kind of the unknown trust upon you, you know, but it doesn't mean it's not good for you. So I understand that they're like I just wanted to be simple and clear and easy and that means that that's the sort of message from students who are trying, but I think we all think that makes we all want that in life at the same time. That's not how the world is. You cannot make the world. Yeah, the students who can come to the house. Sometimes they bring like the PhD or a master's student along to, you know, who's done a program who's done or doing a program in their department that's not too dissimilar or even if it is dissimilar doesn't really matter because they can still have useful insights. It's about brings perspective outside of the academic zone. Sometimes the groups are really small, especially for when they're in a really, really early stage, they might not have recruited a lot of the stuff that will end up teaching the program so they actually like where are all your colleagues or they don't exist. Yeah, but we also encourage them to in the meeting that we have if they don't have many people who will actually be directly involved with the program, we encourage them to invite critical friends so other programs that are currently running. See if you can get their program lead to come and join the fray and sort of because that person will have experience of running a program and they'll say well you know when we were doing ours. We designed it this way, but actually when it hit the ground that turned out to be a bit problematic. So I would recommend you, you know, so it's just really getting them in the room because everybody's so busy, you can't count on people to meet in the corridor and have these conversations. There's no water cooler. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, when we started doing these questions are a bit simple actually they know all the art story. It's amazing how much it brings out. Yeah. I haven't had that really had those discussions properly. You know what they have one person's talk to another about not as a whole group. Yeah. I'm going to sit down. What about another thing they want to do more. We'll finish it half past five minutes. If we give it five minutes. We can have feedback on questions. Ideas, and if we've got time, we can discuss, discuss, yeah, discuss, yeah, discuss our ideas. I mean they have a workshop running concurrently for the online people. So maybe they have no intention of people attending the workshop. I can get that impression. Yeah, I think they know when we talk the information we didn't get told. Remember some people will be on line. So I thought maybe they're either they're on or the online people just we just assume that they're not really participating. Because I thought the screening was workshop to go to that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the presentation. Yeah. Honestly, I have no idea what she said, but I thought everyone likes to talk now. Maybe your idea could work. Like in monopoly, you get a card and the card gives you a scenario. You know, you, your partner has stolen the money from the bank. You are now broke. Go directly to Jay. So, so you could have a scenario sort of you're a student you've gone into your model course. The assessment is not where you thought it would be. Or you've got, you know, got multiple types of submission. There's no information. So, or you want to get a book from the library that told that it's on the third floor library. Distance. Yeah. Again, something that they can do much about, but what they would not tell them to go and get it. Yeah, it should be, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are issues like that. Digital sort of like in the planning of kind of what's the ethos of your approach to digital resource. Lots of discussion, very little notes. Interesting discussion. Okay, good. I mean, if. How are you guys getting on? Do you think we're mad? I don't realize that I've seen you so many times and not realized who you are. Actually, of course I know you as well on Twitter. It's something. It's that's where some heart and these Twitter, you know, it's so evil. But I don't want to not see these people. They're not the people themselves, but they're tweets. Sorry, I'm interrupting your conversation. How are you? You know, if it was easy, we would have done it. Are you guys getting on? Well, that's good. Shut the floor. I came and tried to disrupt them, but they got back on track. Amazing. Well, maybe we should. This is good, isn't it? I like this open door. It's quite hot. Nice. Even probably warmer, but yeah, at least the air moves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. You're keeping active. What a lie. Yeah. We've got eight minutes left. Well, we better. Yeah. Okay, we better have our, our reporting back wrap up time. So that we don't run out of time. I love that you've all been discussing so actively. So it wasn't a completely meaningless question that we asked you. Well, they even understand what we mean. So maybe this, this group, would you like to tell us a bit about your discussion here? So we were talking about, and we, there was a little bit of bias in our blended learning. But sort of like the conversation, the way it went is that we got to the point of personally asking any program, people who can't require blended learning is the number one is that is the program that we want you to deliver. It doesn't lend itself to the language. Because although blended learning is something and very much a buzzword and something that everybody's doing, it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be blended. Sometimes it could possibly be that it does just lend itself face to face. Sometimes it could be sold in your life. Sometimes it doesn't have to be blended. And that's where you start looking at all the questions around the activities of students and the activities of the academics and looking at activities that are taking place and does that lend itself to blended. Is it possible and as learning technicians possibly facilitating that conversation around that because as mentioned, sometimes you may turn around and say an activity from an academics point of view is that, oh, that's not something that can be done and blended. And then it's from a learning technicians point of view, we start feeding with a thought process of can it not be done? Have you maybe thought about this? Have you maybe thought about that? And a really good example used was something like the randomization of mathematical questions, for example. Done face to face, that's almost very, it can be done, very difficult to do. But from an online perspective, randomization of questions and things is very easy to do and quite done quite well. So it's looking at contextual, looking at subjects, looking at things like that can lend itself. From a mobile perspective, one of the things that we also spoke about is that through the pandemic, obviously we were forced to move online. And we obviously during that period of being online, we realized some benefits and some pitfalls, and hence why blended has come about from that. And from my own experience, and some other people at the desk as well, we're talking about is that one of the most successful things that we've used through the classroom. And using that being a mechanism of facilitating blended learning, but at the same time, my personal opinion is that sometimes we seem to shoehorning blended into areas that isn't really necessary and possibly looking from a program point of view, listening to some of the students this morning, is that listening to students' expectations about the social expectations about coming to learning institutions and maybe looking at it from a program point of view of a longer period of time, looking at it in a year segregation rather than a single year. So for example, first year students potentially giving them a more on site experience to build those relationships to build those social interactions. And sort of maybe minimizing that over the given interactions that they can maintain those social aspects, but to an online format. Sounds like a very interesting conversation. And really some great points coming out of it. Did that lead you to have any idea on like, what would be the activity in our workshop. I think this part of the problem is I was hoping to come to the session because I am and for myself, I was hoping to come to the session to find an alternative to a classroom. Because the classroom works so well for what we do is that I was hoping to maybe come find some inspiration about sort of what everything's on how maybe some of the other groups will come up with some of that inspiration or possibly I mean, pick your brains later on, possibly even like, well, then it's enough just to find out a little bit more about sort of what those possibilities are, what the other options are around that. But the reason for a longer format time, we haven't talked yet. We start talking a little bit before the workshop. The first thing really is to let the program team members to based on the part in the division, and to list the certain tasks or activities that we should do in order to achieve the vision and problem. So to list all these activities first, right, and then we want them to say, look, you've got all the activities listed, and you identify one by one which one is better, then you have to put it online. So that one bit, and then after the first stage, then there's the knowledge is our team members, they do, keep it. If you really using this the best for online, it's taken, think about that. For example, this assessment task, just for example, it can be do offline meetings, but actually online, they didn't know that, so they can make them realise that actually they learned something and then can add them to that direction, but have to come up from them first and then we can work together to draw the conclusion together. So that's where we got this off. Thank you. You wrote on some post-its, I can see them there. I was just talking about thinking about how to compute the cell. That reached someone in there, but we did start them actually with the thought that we need to do some sort of policy, policy set with the programme because they don't have an idea what they're doing, they don't know how they're going to do it, they don't know how they're going to assess it, so they're not coming very much. It's always really good to start, I think, with that whole play, there's a lot of best ways that you can do it, and that's obviously a very significant thing, so that's what we're going to pass on. Next person is from the beggining of this. Well executed. You want to stick with music, no wonder. Thank you, I like it. I'm excited, thinking of all programme-level policies, the idea of consistency, all of the student affairs, and we don't want to do these things, kind of do these things just for the same thing. We don't want one more dress, but it's a way out of whack to see everything else. And we don't want it to just be eternity. Sorry, James. But we didn't want to have kids that experience the students involved in it. I know I've just gotten into contact with lots and lots of us too, lots and lots of things. So that's the idea of hats. I think it's probably the greatest symbol of the note in this group. In just that sense, that's all the sense. The idea that we need to, ideally we have students or prospective students or a group of some kind of people with possibly prospective students in the group that is on it. So we could be like, okay, what are your expectations? And what are the same people that are in the same group? Obviously, it's a really different thing, but start bringing a student voice in at that point and say, well, actually, you don't have to learn a lot to do that. Because it's horrible and invasive software that steals the copyright environment. Can we use it at the collection? For instance. So the idea of preferences. Thank you very much for that question. Yeah, so we've done a little shopping preferences. We were thinking about really keeping a room that didn't know the content or the sentiment that they were going to be designing activities for. And therefore, what we wanted to do was to help them out with series of tips and tricks and talking to their students and then they did have an idea of what the concept was going to be. They got some ideas in what we thought we should do with the activity and some kind of devil's art approach where we've got people to think about the things that they actually would be comfortable with and they wouldn't want to do it. But then a challenge, they would think of what they would do as an alternative and that was completely uncontainable. So that they had to put themselves into another person's shoes. Any gloves? Yeah, let's pass the bat on because we all think what I've written about teaching for lots of things and bears and come back to the room. Yeah, so it's that idea of we've got the teaching approaches but there's also the teaching perspective. We've talked about perhaps by teaching perspective and actually understanding what are the predominant perspectives in that program team and then actually in our project design learning intentionally that put it in both perspective and back to the idea of looking at using what we've got there, the impact. And it's like, for the idea of putting the impacts as before in the tutorial, you can obviously use that as an impact assessment then for those approaching it. Also, the other thing that we're going to be talking about, larger attributes and how those blended learning and activity that we're going to learn in the library, so digital larger attributes which we're going to be talking about as well. Love it. Thank you very much. We've got a lot of time. Our 15 minutes, we've probably tried to squish an hour of activity, but we want to do a warm-up of technology tools for students and how they changed over the last 10 years. So things around shopping and entertainment, so just finding out about people's experiences then we said we have to consider the fact that even if it's a main program, we're probably drawing in modules that exist already and might be able to radically change those. So what activity can we do? What tools are they already using and kind of like that impact of the things that we're doing? We've then very rarely got some kind of hard-sorting activity or app thing that's going on in the middle. So yeah. Good. That will make sense in a minute. So then we're thinking about universal cyber learning and the multiple modes of engagement and action, expression and representation and how technology might be fitting into that. We were then thinking about skills development and what expectations there are for that. So whether you're working with any external bodies, say for example if you're in a health sciences department, do you have to do something that meets with the country's requirements and so on? Okay, that's one covered. And we also wanted to reflect on the digital skills that students need and so whether we're able to do anything more offensive about development skills and what the schools want to change. Now you can see that James got another post-it note there about what the space is. Yeah, well just a couple of options. I think one of the relates to what this group was saying is the idea that we should perhaps look at opportunities to stretch students and to develop their skills depending on what outcomes we're looking for. So doing something different to others and not being consistent isn't necessarily a problem as long as that plan and it's developmental and that's what you want. We said that some programs wouldn't be interested in that. But then just coming back to this point that was made over here and that is I think we should mention something that cropped up at the beginning of your presentation, you can find in past expression and then inclusivity. So sometimes if we listen to our existing students who were great this morning and we listen to our existing experiences that it's very, we're only going to get what we've always done. And so therefore we need to try and open up the conversations to think about wide and past especially inclusivity and of course blended learning has a lot to offer there. So that might be something we should feed in and encourage a discussion of that. I think it was definitely a bit of a mission of blended learning because for us, we look at things in terms of synchronous and asynchronous activities and they could be online, offline, in-person or there's like high flex stuff we're just trying to start some work out. So I think there's a combination of different things and we just need to be careful how we use blended learning's term and the biggest what's happening over in the change of technology is the expectations of our students. Actually it's probably more around the variety of different activities in the places where students need them at the time that they are receptive to what those lessons might be. Excellent summation. Thank you. Thank you very much. That was amazing. Thank you. We really appreciate all your thoughts and we'll go away and allow our minds to be boggled a bit more now. We probably don't have time but do you ever apply this model of these ideas to existing programs? Yes. We do work with existing programs but they typically will come along with a particular aspect that they're looking to do some kind of review work on so they already have identified something that they want to enhance or change or you know they think there's an issue and we normally tend to do maybe more of the ABC style work with them because they have an existing program that's already made so they're not starting from nothing. But it also depends on the issues that they're having with the existing program. Is it that recruitment has fallen off? Yeah. A precipice because then they may need to go back to brass tax you know it could even be in the title of the program that nobody's googling it. So you know they do need to re-ask the questions that they thought were answered. Thank you all very much.