 I have to wait as usual. Here we go. What's up guys? Drew here, thatanxietyguide.com. Back as always with Billy from the UK. I love it again. Anxietyunited.com in the UK. Yes. We are going to do episode 10. This is 10, right? This is 10, this is 10. Episode 10. Double figures. Double figures. We are in the big leagues now. So we're gonna do episode 10 of our Anxiety 101 series that we started a while ago now. And we are discussing an article, I'll go through the same intro, an article that I wrote many years ago. We will link it in the video description on both channels wherever you're watching. And we're just taking the article bit by bit and going through each section and kind of talking about it. So today, what are we gonna talk about, Bill? We are talking about the impact of lifestyle and the choices that you can make, whether positive or negative. Very good. This is true. So I guess what I'll do is I'll kind of just go through what I wrote and then Billy has put me to shame with a torch of good notes that we can talk about. Oh, here comes Copper. My dogs are here, so you may, they may make yes appearances. So if they have any input, I'll let you know. How not to be afraid of a thunderstorm. I'll have him talk about that. So what I wrote was lifestyle choices can influence your panic disorder positively or negatively, which I think we would both agree with. So I just made, it's a short paragraph. I talk about eating a healthy diet, avoiding alcohol and things like recreational drugs, because anything that changes your mental state can be an anxiety trigger. I talked about regular exercise, getting out the sun, and you have to wear your sunscreen. I'm obligated to say that. Getting sleep, learning time, stress management techniques. And I even wrote, I can't believe I wrote this, but it's true. Don't ignore your emotional and spiritual needs and that sort of thing. I can't believe I wrote that because I was never that guy. But there's truth in that. I was tired. I let my guard down for a second. But there's truth in that. There really is. I'm on board with that now. So that's kind of the broad brush. We should probably talk about that. And I think let's start with talking about diet. I think the general gist for today is that the lifestyle choices we make can have an impact, right, on our anxiety state because your lifestyle choices affect your mental state and your physical state. And especially for me, I can always speak for me when I get really run down and eating like crap and I'm not sleeping, you know, I'm more likely to have a bad day anxiety-wise. So you should think, yeah. Do you think it becomes like a bit of a habit? Because it does for me, like I'll go on maybe a healthy eating thing for a few days. But then I suppose it's, what's the word I'm looking for? Convenience. Convenience takes over. And you just, there's a McDonald's two minutes down the road, you know? Yeah. I think if you're gonna, in the note that I made, if you're gonna really 100% go for this, then you've got to be prepared to maybe put yourself out of it. Like with the diet thing, maybe you have to buy fresh ingredients. You have to buy, make fresh meals instead of buying processed pre-packed food. And it just takes that a little bit longer to prepare. You know, the food is better quality. It's just that you've got to be prepared to put in a little bit more effort to get that reward, don't you? It's about making an effort across the board rather than just trying to get all the benefits from doing bits and bobs here and there. If you're gonna go for it full 100%, then go for it. That makes sense. That's true. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely true. I think it's just like anything else we've talked about. The exposure takes effort, everything takes effort. So I think we're out of audio sync again a little bit, but... I don't know. Yeah, so anyway, we're just gonna, yeah. The other thing with diet, the other thing would be like dehydration as well. I think people don't take enough water on board or liquid, and I've read in numerous places that being dehydrated can mimic some of the symptoms that we would get with anxiety and stuff like that. So like dizziness and, you know, so it's important to make sure that you're getting the fluid as well. Yeah, you're probably right on that. And I will say like the diet thing when we started on that. For me, it wasn't so much that, and what took it for me was like going back to the gym many years ago and starting to lift again and starting to eat healthy because of that. And when I do watch my diet and I eat well and I keep my weight down, and you know, I'm just, I guess it sounds ridiculous and cliche, but when I'm actually feeding my body what it actually needs to like be healthy, I do feel better. Like even mentally, you just feel more, for me, I feel more resilient. Like I'm able to handle more. I can tolerate more stress. I can tolerate more crap as it comes my way. It's not something that you think about consciously though. It's not like eat a banana and sit there and wait to feel good. It's just something that would gradually, so maybe people sometimes expect, you know, if you sit down and eat a healthy day's food, you'll expect that tomorrow you're gonna feel. And that's not what we're saying. It's a continuous thing. Don't expect this to change overnight. And I think it's probably important to say, and this kind of plays a little bit into the meds thing that maybe we'll talk about one day, but diet, I hear people talk about it. Oh, I actually made a video about that called what are the best herbs? Oh, it's gonna refer to it. Yeah, that's herbs and supplement. Right, what can I take? What can I eat and ingest? That's natural, people always say, I want something natural and food is natural, that's fine. But that will fix or help my anxiety. And like you said, it's not, I know a lot of people talk about things like magnesium, which is true, magnesium does have an impact on your nervous system and whatnot. But I urge people to, we're talking about diet. It's just a smart thing to keep your body in a healthy state. Don't look at the things that you eat, any special foods, magnesium, I hear a lot, potassium. You mentioned bananas. Well, if I raise my potassium levels, I'll be better. People who eat cherries, because they heard that cherry extract is good for anxiety. Like just, we're just talking about being healthy overall. We're not talking about eating something that's gonna make you feel better instantly or fix things. This is a video across the board for everybody pretty much in. A little bit, anxiety or otherwise, yeah. I think the water thing is a good thing too. Sometimes I'm guilty about drinking it out. So being hydrated is probably a good thing. Yeah, yeah. I think headaches is another thing with dehydration. People, they say to drink a big glass of water and it might just be that. Yeah, that's true. That's true. It makes a big difference. So the things that we eat. The next. Yes. Oh yeah, go on. No, no, I'd say the things we eat and the things that we drink. And I would probably add, for me, and I can only go by in my own experience, I pretty much just drink water. I'll have coffee now and then, but usually it's decaffeinated coffee. I stay away from caffeine. But I'm pretty much just drinking water all the time. So. You drink a lot of tea? Yeah, I mean that's fine. Tea. English. Yeah, you're obligated. So it's coffee. For me, it's pretty much just water or it's coffee and it's usually decaffeinated coffee. But if you stay with liquids, it's not a good idea to go through the day drinking pounding juice or soft drinks that are loaded with sugar and that sort of stuff. The best advice I usually give people is like, make every calorie count. So if you're gonna take in a calorie, make it something that your body can actually use. Yeah, yeah. And unfortunately a can of Coke isn't something that your body really needs or wants or will use. So. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's that. So you wanted to move on to the next thing, exercise. That's a pretty big thing. Well, yeah, exercise. I mean, that for me is one thing like I'll get set on doing something. And I don't know if you can offer any advice on this, but like I'll get into something. I was doing the couch to 5K thing. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. Yeah, I've heard of that, sure. Okay, yeah, so I went through the first week. I did three, I think it was three times in the week. So like you do it one day, have a day off, do it the next. And it was only like, I think it was walking for a couple of minutes, then jogging for a minute, then walking. And just basically gradually just building yourself up. But it's staying motivated to see these things through. That's where I come and stuck. I'll get into something and I'll feel a bit of a benefit. And then something will crop up. And then I'll just, it'll come to the time where I'm supposed to do it next. And it's just, I'll do it tomorrow. And then it just never gets done. And I don't know why I can't stay motivated to continue with it. That's a tough one, because we all struggled with that. We all struggled with it. Yeah, yeah. So what was it for you? What got you to the gym every day? What got me to the gym every day? So that was years ago. So I've been pretty much consistently lifting again. And primarily my choice of exercise is weight training. So I was training, training. And I do my cardio too, but for the most part it's strength training. What got me back in there? Honestly, it was just, it seemed like a challenge that I should meet. And when I was younger in my teen years, early 20s, I did that a lot. And then it just sort of fell off. And when I started having real anxiety problems, I started taking medication. I gained a huge amount of weight. That was 100 pounds heavier than I am today. And so there was no exercise in my life. And when I came off the meds and started getting my shit together, I didn't know what part of my French, but I just sort of naturally lost a lot of weight. And I had gotten into the 250 to 240 pound range pounds here in the U.S. And I have no idea what that is in kilograms or stone. Expensive. Yeah, high. I was still heavy. And I said, okay, this is crazy. I gotta go back to the gym. And I started going to the gym, which was literally right around the corner from my house. I could walk there. I would drive there because I'm a lazy bastard, but it was right there. And it was just the challenge of like, okay, I've gone this far without doing this. So let's see what I can do if I actually start exercising again. And then- So was it, did you go to lose weight or did you go to try and help? I went to lose, I went to see if I could lose more weight because honestly, that was right around the time of like my 40th birthday or so. So it was in my early 40s. And you know, your body changes over time. So those of you who are watching or listening who are around my age, understand that. And your body is different. Not many left. Yeah, we're all dropping off, you know? It's only a matter of time. So, I love it. So your body changes and I would look in the mirror and think, well, I'm not liking this and I know I could do something about it. There's no reason to just accept this. So I had a lot of different motivation when I went back to the gym. And then for me, I'm very motivated by a challenge. I just always have been. So I like to do hard things. So I wanted to be able to get to a 225 pound squat, which doesn't sound like a lot to some people listening, I'm sure, but it was a big deal for me when I got the two plates on both sides and I was able to do that again. So did the next steps just become the next motivating? They did, so like now how much can I lift? Now how much can I lift? And it just became me against me and that's what kept me motivated. And then, you know, the weight loss just kept happening. So at one point I got down under 200 pounds, which was a little too thin for me, but I'm dead. And so I just become motivated by the challenge of doing it. That's what helps me. So yeah, yeah. So it was good that you were motivated by that and not motivated by the weight. You know what I mean? More so than challenge. That was a more of a side effect. Positive side effect of actually having something that you was focusing on. Maybe that's where I go wrong because I try to decrease the sensations by doing things more rather than... Yes, it's more though. Yeah, yeah, but I think maybe if I tried to run for 15 minutes and then try and increase to run 20 minutes rather than try to run for 10 minutes without feeling as bad. Right. Because that's what I was always focused on. Like, can I do this session without feeling as bad as I did last time? The bed, the anxiety bed. Yeah, yeah. So like concentrating on how out of breath I am and stuff, you know? So rather focus on how far you can go, not how bad you feel. This is a really good... I actually did two videos on this. I feel like it's like commercial videos here, but I did a series of two videos on this. And I guess I could link those if you're interested in looking at them. But what I found was... Yeah, yeah, we will definitely. Yeah, going to the gym, when I started going and exercising, and whatever, it doesn't matter what your choice of exercise is. It could be running, it could be walking, it could be any, for me, it was weight training. It doesn't matter. It was the single biggest best decision I made for my anxiety also because it just served as... What I found was something that I wanted to rise to the challenge. So I wanted to be able to lift more weight. I wanted to get stronger and all that thing, all that stuff. So when I would start and I would, you know, find myself, because I was in a good condition. I had not been in the gym, I was sedentary. And so I would start just huffing and puffing and my heart would be racing. And, you know, after a set of squats, I would get a little lightheaded, which is normal. That's normal. That happens to everybody who does the exercise. And I really had to pick in many moments like I would be in the gym and I would want to run out of the gym. Like, because I was feeling lightheaded and hard to breathe and my heart was racing. You know what we all know what that feels like. And I would want to stop and come back to safety. But not stopping was more important to me. Like the challenge of like, no, I'm doing another set. I'm doing another set. And it taught me, and more than any other thing that I did, exposure and otherwise, to just be okay with those feelings. Yeah, but maybe you were in that danger. Yes, like, and I would have to sit on a bench sometimes and literally just focus on one point at the wall and keep telling myself over and over and over. Like, I did this to myself. There's a reason why my heart is pounding. I just did this. I just lifted that weight over there. And so for what it's worth, the exercise thing, I know it's a whole topic by itself and I'm kind of passionate about it. It was the single biggest catapult for me that sent me forward. Because what I discovered is, if I could get through an hour and a half of the gym and feel lightheaded and feel the rubbery legs and all those symptoms and just keep going, then when I felt lightheaded or rubbery legs in the shopping mall, I didn't care anymore. Easy. De-sensitizing yourself to say no to those things. So, yeah, I would highly, highly recommend it. It doesn't matter what the exercise is. I was just going to say, yes, perhaps, and in the notes that I made, like when people think of exercise, they probably think of running a marathon and swimming the Thames. But it doesn't have to be that, does it? It can just be a walk. It can be like housework, hovering. If you don't, the less you do, I guess, now, you know, it doesn't really matter as long as you're active, you're moving. That's exactly right. Right now, and if you've not done anything, especially because if your anxiety is keeping you from it, I don't like when my heart rate goes up, so I don't exercise at all. So if you're sedentary, then your conditioning isn't so great and it might just be a very gentle walk around your guard. That's all you need to start to feel those sensations. But any moving is better than not moving every single time. I had a friend once who used to, when they used to get the heart fluttery thing, they used to run up and down the stairs in the house just to prove to themselves that they were fine. Sure. You know? And that worked out fine, I'm sure. Yeah, exactly. That's it, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a tough one. I think maybe by means of encouragement, because I always like to offer that. So I also knew that I had made huge steps forward when if I don't sleep enough, I tend to get those skipped heart beats. They're called premature ventricular contractions. Everybody has them. And I have them now, then. And they used to scare the hell out of me. They would trigger instantaneous panic, but I would feel them. And when I got to the point where I could be in the gym and like an hour in at the gym and have them on a constant basis and just keep going. Just let it go. That was a huge, huge, huge step forward too. So yeah, I would say whatever it takes. So you talked about just walking. It doesn't matter. You don't have to get off your sofa and run a marathon or you don't have to be, you know, an Olympic weightlifter. Just do something, something. And there are so many benefits. So many benefits. Mental, everything. But that's it, isn't it? It's not just, well, it is everything, as you say, the physical benefits. Sure. I mean, even if you're not getting out of the house, it's not about that. It's just everything. It's sort of the chemicals, whatever it is. There are physical benefits. There are mental benefits because if even just like stress management when you get into an exercise group, I do feel better. Now for me, you know, I'm lifting heavy. So there's an element of stress and anger management in that. So if I had a really crappy day, it always feels better after I've thrown around some heavy weight for a while. But more than that, it's the challenge. It's like, I did it. I did it. I did something for myself. I feel good. I wish something. Yeah. The key for me, I think the takeaway from this would be to find the right motivation to do it. And that will keep you on that path. Yeah, so maybe you just want to be motivated to run the 5K, like who cares? Yeah, yeah, exactly. You just want to get to do it. So that's what we do. So what was next after sunshine? Next. Science. I like how you wrote that. Sunshine, science, proven to increase feel good chemicals in the brain. That's what I wrote. So I hear a lot about serotonin, stuff like that. I don't especially know too much about it, but science, there is science behind sunshine. Yes. Vitamin D. Yeah, vitamin D. We can't, we need it. We need sunshine to synthesize vitamin D. And when you're vitamin D deficient, you could have nervous system issues. So it's for people like us, we should try and do that. And there's a lot of studies, mood-based studies. So when you go into Scandinavian countries and north up into the Arctic Circle, where the sun doesn't really shine for six months at a time, that the depressive moods become more common. Yeah, the sun makes you feel good. I mean, do you feel that yourself, like when winter time comes and it's earlier, dark nights and seasonal affective disorder? Yeah, is that a thing? Is that a thing? Should we ruffle some feathers or is? It's probably a thing. It's probably a thing. I don't say it's not a thing, because you know what, I never, I used to really like the winter. And the last five or six years, I'm growing tired of the winter just because I don't want to shovel snow anymore. Like I'm just getting tired of that. We get a lot of snow around here sometimes. We do. So I just don't want to shovel a lot of snow anymore. So yes, when it's a particularly harsh winter here in New York and it feels like it drags on from October through freaking March, yeah, I'm losing it by the end a little bit. So I can totally get why people would become a little depressed and down and anxious. I don't necessarily notice it so much in the winter, like I feel down, but what I do notice is that when the sun's out, I do feel better. Although I'm known about the heat and stuff, but like my favorite time of year is probably March, April, when the sun's just starting to come out, it's not too hot, there's a bit of a breeze, but the sunshine definitely makes me feel more positive. I think so. There have been times, especially, because I've also dealt with depression from time to time. And there have been times when I've had to force myself to literally just go out into my backyard and sit in the sun. Even if I did nothing and just put headphones on to listen to music, just sit in the sun. I haven't had to do that for years, but, and I would feel better. Now I wouldn't fix everything, but I would feel better after sitting in the sun for, say, 20 or 30 minutes, just having the sun hit my face. There's something about it, so. Yeah, get outside. Being in the dark house all the time is not good. Let's talk about sleep. We were talking about it before we went live. I'm not sleeping well at the moment. It's rough, dude. I go through it. It's so weird. I go through these stages. I'll be sleeping fine for weeks, like having plenty of sleep and I'm getting up early and everything's hunky-dory, but then I guess the first night where I just can't get to sleep and then I'll have a night where I just feel like I'm waking up every five, 10 minutes. I'm probably not. And then I suppose the worst time is when you go to bed, you're messing on your phone till stupid o'clock and then you put your phone down knowing that you've got to get up in a few hours and then you've already jeopardized your day. I feel like the first thing I think about when I wake in the morning then is like I've already sabotaged myself and then I'm already negative and then I'll start focusing on how I'm feeling, stuff like that. Am I already tired? Have I got enough energy to do this or that? You know, so it's like you're waking automatically negative. So it's just bad. Sabotage. Yeah, because you did that. Like I thought that. Like I did this to myself. Like, why did I stay until 3 a.m.? I shouldn't have done that. It's so weird. And you always find that like when you do put your phone down later at night, you think maybe you're going to be tired of it. But for some reason your brain just decides, nah. I know that there's a whole lot of research now. In fact, they think of the latest, you don't even have to jailbreak your phone, the blue light. Like I always, now has a thing called night mode or something. Yeah, yeah. Well, I've got Android, Samsung and that's got a blue light filter. Yeah, yeah. And there's a reasonable amount of evidence that seems to say that those, that blue light disrupts our circadian rhythms, keeps you away. I would say I put my blue light filter on last night and it made no freaking difference whatsoever. Let's get Samsung on the phone. I'm on my money back. I'm going to guess it's probably a cumulative thing. But I know that what's weird about that, not to talk too much about the devices, but the business that I'm in, I'm in a technical business. I own technology companies. So the network never sleeps. So these things are our link to what's going on in our own network and our servers. So there are alert messages that come to us at all hours of the night. Not so much when things are running well, but, and I got into the bad habit many years ago of the phone is always next to me all the time. It never goes off. It doesn't go on silent. It doesn't do anything because when something goes down, I need to hear it, right? Yeah, yeah. And what I find is like, we're engineered to the point now where that's not even a thing anymore for the most part. So nothing happens at three o'clock in the morning, but I'm in that habit. And if I turn the phone on, if I just unlock the screen and that light hits my eyes, I am up. Right. Yes. So it is a thing. Now, I don't know how it affects me going to sleep. I know that there are people probably watching and listening to this that will yell at me and say, I told you, it's keeping you awake. And you know who you are. Like no phone before bed, I get told that a lot. I always do. Right. Same thing. Yeah, but I do the same thing. And so sleep is a tough one because I think when you don't, so you feel like it starts you off in a negative tone. Like I just, I ruined my day. Yeah, yeah, I feel that. Definitely. Even if I've gone, like sometimes I'll go to bed like super early, but like if I have an unsettled night because that happens to me again, like it's very rare that I'll just, it's probably very rare for most people to just go straight through sleep, wake up as your alarm goes off and feel superb. There's probably not that many people. I didn't even know that's a real thing. People say it is, but I don't know. Sitting in the movie, super. Right, right, it must be real. Yeah, yeah. But I suppose that's it. I suppose being negative automatically like the way that I am, perhaps. I think too much about it. Like everybody gets up like that. Nobody wants to get up for school in the morning, you know? It's just that because, you know. Yeah, that's what I think. I mean, I assume that everybody hates waking up. So, but I know that people, you know, oh, I feel so good this morning. I feel so refreshed. I've had that a few times. I have woke up and actually felt, you know, ready to tackle whatever. Yeah, it's rare. I don't know. Sleep is not a strong point for me. It's just not. I don't sleep a lot. I haven't for a long time. I'm kind of like okay with what we were talking about before we started recording. I'm kind of okay with the three and a half, four hours, you know, and then like I said, every week or so I have to do a longer night. But it just seems to work for me and I don't seem to be walking around sleep deprived. But, you know, whatever, whatever works for you. I guess that the key here is find the groove that works for you. Yeah, yeah. You're going to sleep. But you read like, and I said it in my notes myself, like try and get a regular sleep and make sure you get enough. But when you're struggling, it's like when people say that's the advice, get your head down at the same time, get a regular pattern. But when you can't sleep, it's like how can you take that advice? So I feel their pain. If that's what you're reading on the internet, you know, get yourself a regular sleeping pattern sorted out. Well, I can't, but you know, just I suppose go to bed at the same time. The advice that you see is go to bed at a regular time. If you can't sleep, don't just lay there, you know, get up, read a book or something and associate bed with sleep. Right, no phone, no TV. Yeah, yeah, that's it. I've heard all of those things. Yeah, yeah. But you know, it's so funny and I'm sure there's validity in that because zillions of people do it and they have success with it. So I'm not saying that's wrong. But for me, it's always like, you know, geez, I wish I had more money and that the advice would be, well, go get a million dollars. Well, yeah, that's great advice. Thank you, Captain Obvious. Like, you know, like when you're telling the person who doesn't really sleep, just go to bed earlier, but I don't go to bed. That's the problem. I'm sure I'm gonna lay there and like my eyes will be wide open, but I don't know. But I think just whatever your groove is is probably the best of, I'm not a good person to offer advice on sleep, but I will acknowledge that when I get too sleep deprived, I am more likely to have anxiety issues. Absolutely, there's no doubt in my mind. I agree with that. I agree with that. So, yeah, so sleep, I guess find the best way you can to get sleep. I'm not a good person to offer sleep advice because I don't. We were just got done talking about sleep and we wanted to move on to, in my article, I talked about like taking care of your like emotional and spiritual health and you wrote in your notes, do things that make you smile. And that is pretty big deal. Yes. So let's talk about that. I think that the main thing, like I was thinking like hobbies, I don't know what it is. There's so many different things, different sports, whatever it is. But the main takeaway for me was to make sure that it was something you were doing because you want to do it, not because it distracts you from anxiety. So that was my main sort of thing. So whatever it is, sewing, if you like sewing, you know, grab the sewing kit when you're feeling that you've maybe achieved all you needed to do today. You've done the uncomfortable stuff, you know? So rather than if you've got to go somewhere, sit there and do some sewing to try and take your mind off it, that's not, I was thinking, you know, do things that make you smile because you want to do them. That's true. That's a good point. So they're not just anxiety tools. Yeah, yeah. Like normal people, people who don't have anxiety have things they like to do. So, you know, we should have things we like to do too. Now, I think sometimes when you're in the thick of it and you're really struggling, it's hard to find pleasure in things like that sometimes. Because when you're so incredibly focused on just how you feel, it can be hard to like, you know, I guess find fun and things. I know you've always been like a game or a bed, you know? Oh, yeah. Like so even when you're struggling, does that help you? Yeah. You still enjoy it. Yeah, yeah, it's one of the only things that can sort of just take me away, distraction. I guess it's because you're not just sitting watching, you're actually controlling and, you know, you're having to actually take part in an active thing rather than just sitting watching TV or reading a book. That makes sense. So it does help, but what I try not to do is I try not to do that if I'm feeling this, if I'm feeling bad, then I try not to go on and use that as a distraction because I don't want to, I don't want it to become like a safety thing. We're heading back there to the safety, you know? I'd rather just, I'll play the game when I want to play the game, not when I feel that I've got to now because I feel like crap. So that's good. So that's actually what I do. So you can find enjoyment in the gaming, but you just won't go to it as a escape from, oh, I'm feeling panicky, I'd better fire up my GPS for whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's pretty good. And I think, you know, and I think a lot of us too would probably think, well, before I had these problems, I used to enjoy doing this. Or, you know, I used to like to do this. And the, oh, there are real change over time. Maybe we don't enjoy the same hobbies that we used to, but odds are, if you used to like it, you still like it. Yeah, yeah. I think you forget, you forget the thing, you forget the person that you was and the things that you used to do, don't you? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. You create new habits that are sort of to accommodate anxiety. That's what I've done in the past. Like, you know, you find things to do that do distract you and do help you. But you're maybe not passionate about it, you know? That's true. So that distinction between using it as a distraction and actually finding joy in it is part of it. Yeah, yeah. And in the beginning, sometimes it might be more of a distraction. But in the end, it would become just something that, anything that makes you happy is never a bad thing. So. That's it. I said, I put in my thing, anything that makes you feel happy, energized, fulfilled, motivated, refreshed. Sure, sure. Prepared, alive, it's a good thing. I know that for me, the gym became a little bit of that because so it did solve two purposes. It's also a hobby, I guess I would call it a hobby. But I got into, for a while, I got into woodworking again. So, but I renovated the house. We did a lot of renovations in the house and so I did a lot of the woodworking myself and then I got tired of doing it, but it was good to get, those things help in a big way. Yeah, definitely. I decided to learn to play the guitar. So I used the guitar as a stress reduction and that's like just my, I can just put my headphones on, plug them in, you know, just play for an hour. And get enjoyment. Just for the enjoyment. And when you do that, I find that it brings my overall stress and anxiety levels down. So when I'm doing things that make me happy, then I'm much more resilient. I'm able to deal with much, shovel more crap as it comes my way, you know? Yeah, yeah. So it's definitely worth it, for sure. Leads us, that leads on to the time and stress management. Time and stress management. I'm probably not a good person to lecture on this too because I just, I brute force my way through life. I will freely admit that I am not the best person at that. But it matters, right? And I think so much of, well, what's the best way to say this? I think time and stress management is a control issue. I really do. Yeah. Yeah, I really do. And I think it's time management, if you feel like your schedule is so hectic that you can't breathe, or you're feeling stress or pressure because of what's on your plate, you know, what you have to do, tasks, obligations. Yeah. I think that really is a control thing. Yeah, yeah, I would agree. Right, if you feel like you're not controlling it, it becomes hard for many people to deal with, I guess. My dad's called me an ostrich a few times because I buried my head in the sand when stuff's going on. So you've either got me trying to do everything and get it all done. Or the opposite to that, I guess, is just hide from everything. Yeah, away until either somebody else deals with it or it comes to a point where I'm freaking out big time because I have no choice but to deal with it. Right, it doesn't make it worse in the end. So I hide from whatever the issue is. So I don't know, stress management is a tough one. It's something that I could probably talk about at length because of what is my pride. I don't even know what my part of that is. Yeah, yeah. And I think we're all different. Some people have a very strong internal feeling of control. Like I feel like I can control my day every day, pretty much. So even when stuff happens that's unexpected, like, okay, well, no problem. We're just gonna deal with it. I'm gonna delegate it or I'm gonna do it myself. Because for me, for whatever reason, I just wake up every morning and I always have with the belief that I control my day. But I think of you the type of person that doesn't feel that way. Like the day will control you, you know. Unforeseen circumstances, like my schedule will get messed up. Somebody will change something on me. Something will happen that I wasn't expecting. If that is a source of stress and anxiety, then I don't know how you deal with that because I don't understand any point of view. So I'm not sure what your view is on that. I don't know. This side's anything for me. So I don't know. Well, good. You know what I mean? So you have that internal sense of control. I don't know whether it's a good angle or not. I don't know whether feeling the need to be in control is a good thing, I don't know. I think a lot of it is, this is a crazy discussion, but I think a lot of it is knowing when to exert that and take control and I can control this and I will control this and I will shape this the way I want it. And knowing when you can't, like this battle in a fight and it's okay that I can't control this, I will come back to it. Nobody's bleeding, nobody's gonna die. This is fine. I suppose it's like being in control of situations that are important. That's the thing, like not deciding whether we're having mashed potato or roast potato. That's probably the thing, you know? So people perhaps get that controlling, but that's not what you're saying. You don't have to be in control of how big the grade is. I think that's probably true. And I think sometimes stress becomes that feeling of being overwhelmed. And especially when you're struggling with anxiety and panic a lot. I know in my worst days, like the phone ringing was too much. Just having to decide whether or not I should answer the fricking phone was very, very difficult. Or knowing like, well I have to eat something, but like what the hell should I take out of the refrigerator? These were hard decisions and they would stress me out to a certain extent. So I guess it depends on your mental state when you're feeling better. It's probably easier to manage stress and your time. But like what did you actually write here? Don't let external things get on top of you. Do what you want. It's about bills burying your head in the sand. Don't leave things till the last minute. And so there's nothing wrong with the schedule. I would probably say I don't plan a lot ahead, but I used to live entirely freeform, entirely. So I lived my life with like little scraps of paper, like notes to remind myself to do stuff. I would forget things and I had no calendar and no schedule and I lived for many, many years that way. But in the last 10 years, I do kind of have a schedule. Like I roughly know what's gonna happen today or this week, but having no schedule and just let life come at you, I think it's probably a bad idea. That's pretty much how I live. I tend not to plan things. Yeah, because I always feel like if we plan something, it gives me time to anticipate it. So it's not a good, I'm not saying this is the way to do it, I'm saying it's a bad. I do acknowledge that that is not the right way to do it. So you might not be planning, you don't wanna plan something because now you're gonna anticipate having to do that thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So whatever happens to me, yeah. Yeah, I hear you. Whereas I should be, I should plan to go and do something and then go and do it and prove to myself that it didn't matter whether I was freaking out for a week before it or not. I still did it, still got through it, yeah. Makes sense, makes sense. So I think the planning and scheduling thing, I always aspire to be that person like this. It's okay, I'm gonna spend 30 minutes on my email and I'm gonna make sure I spend 30 minutes on this. I'm never gonna be that guy, it seems like I should be that guy, but it's never gonna happen. And then I wonder, when you are that person, does it fix stress and time management or does it just make it worse? It's probably worse, go two minutes over on that phone. Right, to me I think it's just, that rigid thing is just not something I accept that well. So I don't feel like I'm offering anything today. It's just sort of rambling on and I don't know, we'll see. Yeah, it's good. So let's look at the unhealthy, unhealthy ourselves. Unhealthy stuff, yes, let's go through that. I'm a good boy, I don't do any of this. We've got alcohol, alcohol, which is over there. I think the number one thing that's accessible to all of us, you know. I would say, I would say, and then you've got recreational drugs, smoking. I'll just run through the list, caffeine, sitting at computer all day and I junk food and staying up all night. That's the things that I wrote, the unhealthy choices. There's probably hundreds more, it's just that these were the ones that really stuck out for me. You're probably right, I would agree with that list entirely. Alcohol for me, I will tell you that there was a very long time where I had no alcohol, nothing. So I had no caffeine and no alcohol because anything that, you know, the caffeine obviously, is it would make my heart race. I didn't like that. So no caffeine and no alcohol because I was worried how I would feel. You know, if I got that slightly buzzed or drunk feeling, that wasn't good. That I didn't like it. That's a really tricky one because I used to, like I don't think I've touched alcohol for about eight, nine years, some of the stupid. But I used to have a drink every night to try and take the edge off. But then I got to the point, like however long ago it was, many years ago, where it just, it started to, rather than making me feel less anxious, it just started making me question how I was feeling after I had the drink. So it was like a complete role reversal. I used to feel that I had to have a drink to try and make me feel different. And then it became a thing where I can't have a drink because now I don't like that different. How it makes you feel. Sure. Yeah, it's really strange. And I think in my article, I wrote anything that changes your mental state and I was very hyper-vigilant against that. Like I don't want anything that makes me feel differently because I don't want to feel differently. Yeah, yeah. You know, that was a little bit scary for me. So for me, it was a big deal when I got to the point where it's like, all right, I'm gonna have a drink. Like, and I would just sip on it a little bit and slowly like, all right, am I okay? Am I okay? But alcohol is a tough thing because I think a lot of people do kind of use it. They sort of self-medicate with it. The thing for me about, I don't know, it was probably about three or four years ago. I went to a friend's house. We were going around there for dinner and he bought some non-alcoholic beer and I knew that it was non-alcoholic and I had a few sips out the bottle and I just couldn't drink anymore because I was feeling the effects of alcohol even though it was non-alcoholic. Which said to me, I know that 99% of this normal, if I was to drink alcohol, would be in my head because I'm drinking non-alcoholic beer and it's making me feel. So that just answered the question, like the majority of the effects were probably in my head anyway. It was just that, I don't know what it was, maybe the taste of alcohol, the taste of beer or whatever just triggered, maybe the memory. Yes. And I think those feelings could be real because alcohol does have a real impact on our bodies but then we magnify them. So for me, I would get that first feeling of being maybe a little disconnected but I don't know what the feeling, everybody seems to experience different things but that would freak me out but I'd have to sit and remind myself of what you had or whatever, had a half a drink or had a beer or whatever it is. And for a guy that weighs over 200 pounds, I'm like a lightweight with that stuff and I was for such a long time but I think that also became for me as much as I think our advice here is avoid unhealthy choices like alcohol on a regular basis or excessively. It actually became an exposure tool for me. Like not that I would go out and seek it but if I was in a social situation and I could have a drink, it got to the point where it's like, okay, well, can I? Let me do this and keep reminding myself that I did this on purpose and it's okay, it's fine, I will feel better in a half hour and I always would. And so as crazy as it sounds, while alcohol is probably something to be avoided for the most part, it actually helped me. I think only as an exposure tool. Yeah, I think perhaps as we've said on a number of other things, it's like as long as the alcohol is not being used as a crutch or a safety behavior, you're not taking a drink to try and hide away. Yeah, so as long as in moderation, I guess. But I do know, I know one person in particular that actually, well, at least did years ago, I don't know if they're doing it anymore but would walk around all day in a briefcase, like in conducting business and in a briefcase was always a collection. They're either small, like tiny models. Maybe just, yeah. When you buy it at a liquor store or they give you on an airplane and he always had a bunch of those in his briefcase. And so when he would start to feel panicky, he would drink one and it would calm him down. So, I'll call it a tough one but I think the advice that we're offering here is lifestyle choices matter. So alcohol and recreational drugs and smoking and things that generally speaking aren't probably healthy. Smoking is just, we know it now. This is 2017. We are aware that smoking is going to kill you dad. So don't do it. Not being able to breathe is a bad thing. Like sitting all day is a bad thing. Not sleeping is a bad thing. Eating junk food is a bad thing. We all know this. So the takeaway is just make the best choices you can make. And I think make the choices that any person would make. Whether anxiety or not. Like everybody wants to be healthy, right? If we have our choice. So, yeah. Make the best choices we can. And I think, I'll add one more thing I guess as we try and wrap it up but. Like one thing that helped for me in a big way was when I started to understand that when I was out and feeling crappy and like working on that, like it doesn't matter that I feel crappy. I'm still gonna get to the office. I'm still gonna live my life. I would sometimes stop and literally look around me and think that guy probably got three hours of sleep too. Or like that woman over there probably had a big fight with her husband this morning or her kids were late to school and it was like a stressful, like, you know, tough morning. But she's still out going to work and doing her thing. And so we try and make the best lifestyle choices we can and we aspire to be fit and healthy and strong and bodies functioning perfectly and like spiritually enlightened and awesomely sharp mentally. But nobody walks around like that. Yeah, in fact, I'm realistic. Right, so we, those are things that we can aspire to and try and make the best choices we can but you're never going to get to a perfect place either mentally or physically. And so understanding like the people around me probably feel just as bad as I do for a variety of reasons and yet they're still going. So, you know, I don't know. So I think that's just because we're telling people to try and make healthy lifestyle choices. But if we fail to make those choices and we feel like that- Yeah, don't beat yourself up. Right, it's okay. We're not telling you to get to a perfect place. I'm far from in a perfect place. I think everybody is, so. I mean, there's probably people out there that have had severe panic attacks, major anxiety, drank beer, smoked cigarettes in KFC and got over it. So there probably are people out there. I suppose it's the choices they make when it comes to dealing with the anxiety and that's the, you know, facing your fears, essentially. You know, it's so funny because I don't really listen to Joe, you know Joe Rogan, because you're a UFC guy, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a US comedian. And he has a very, very popular podcast that I don't generally listen to. He does. A few weeks ago, I happened to see an excerpt on YouTube and I don't even remember the name of the guy he was talking to, to be honest with you. He made his fortune playing poker, this dude. And he very matter of factly told the story about how he was in Las Vegas with friends of his and they were drinking, just continuously drinking, 24 hours a day. He didn't sleep for like two days. He was popping all kinds of different drugs for fun and he popped like four times the maximum dose of like Viagra because he wanted to have some fun and he'd never tried it before. And he wound up literally putting himself in the emergency room because he just, the human body is not meant to do all of those things for three days straight. And lo and behold, he wound up in the emergency room and did have a mild heart attack at the right age of like 31. But it was an extreme, extreme circumstance. And this guy told the story as if he told the story about how he went to the supermarket and bought eggs. There was no fear in the story. He didn't change his lifestyle. He's a crazy person. But you know, and it really made me stop as opposed to being the entertaining story. And it shouldn't be an entertaining story to hear a guy say that he gave him some heart attack. But to see how he just so matter of factly discussed all those incredibly unhealthy things and how they led to a stay in the hospital blew me away. And it really, I thought about our podcast here and I thought like about where I've been and things. It's so your reaction to what's going on and how you train it. This dude wound up in the hospital and practically killed himself. And he told the story on a podcast and said he was telling the story. Like I said, if I go and ski, there's nothing. And so what's our excuse? Really, God. I was driving and I felt a little panicky. Oh, boo-hoo. Your own interpretation. It is, it is. But we should make the best choices we can to try and maximize our choices, maximize our odds of feeling good. That's about all we're doing here, right? That's it. Give yourself a head start. Or give yourself every chance to get there. Yeah. I think we may have broken a record here on this. I'm not sure. We've been going for a while. Yeah, this is probably gonna be every bit of 40 minutes of anybody's hung in all the way. So I guess we'll kind of wrap up. Well, it was the last part of the article, isn't it? It is, it is. And I think we should probably talk a little bit about what we're gonna do next. Okay. There is one more tiny little thing in the article called The Good News about how this is so treatable. But we don't like giving you that. No, that's all good. We don't wanna talk about good things. So I don't know if that's worthy of its own episode, but maybe we'll do a Q&A. We'll do that one. We'll do a Q&A. We'll try and wrap things up next time. Put a bell on it, I guess. Maybe we're gonna talk, and I guess I'm asking for people, if you've gotten this far, if you're 40 minutes into it, you're still hanging in there, more power to you, and maybe we'll do one on medications, maybe. Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of where we are. So I guess as always, comments, questions, hate mail, flames, whatever, trolls, bring them. We wanna hear it all. I think comments are so good. I sent you one last night that the comments sometimes are so great, so great. I really appreciate them. It's all good. It's all good. So anyway, we're helping some people, and that's the- I think so, I think so. Sometimes I'm not sure how we're helping people, but I keep getting very nice comments from people, so. For the giggles. Maybe, all right. So that's the deal. So as always, thatanxietyguy.com or thatanxietyguy anywhere you want, Facebook, Twitter, it doesn't matter, Billy. It's at anxietyunited.com and the same rules apply. Links are in the description. Sure, sure. So I guess we will do a wrap up next time, maybe a Q&A. Yeah. And yeah, we'll kind of go from there, and then we'll- Suggestions. Suggestions, yeah. Suggestions. Actually, I had had some suggestions. Somebody wanted to talk about fatigue. Like, how do you get rid of the fatigue? I know we've talked about that UNI sometimes, that feeling. Yeah, that was the number one symptom on the whole thing, yeah. Fatigue. I've had a couple of suggestions of things that people would like us to talk about. So I think next time we'll just do a wrap up. We'll do a bit of a Q&A. We'll respond to some questions that we've gotten. Yeah, so if you've got any, if you've got any questions and you've got this far into the podcast, not only do you get a medal, but we will also answer your questions. Yes, we will. Next week. We will talk to you by name next week. Yes. It's like your moment of greatness, your brush with fame. Thank you. All right, folks, thanks for hanging in there with us. Appreciate it. We'll see you guys next time. I have to find my recording software and stop it. This is the awkward time when Drew has to try and stop. See you later. Ta-ra.