 When you took over the Yankees in 1996, one of your first meetings in spring training, you looked around the clubhouse and you told the players, this is a team that can win it all. Paul O'Neill has told me about that scene, David Cohn has told me about that scene. Why were you so confident to say those words to those players at that time? Jack, I was a nervous wreck, man, you know, I had a little time to spend with pitchers and catchers, but I knew that the first, you know, all in meeting with when the regular showed up was going to have to be the meeting that was going to leave an impression on them as far as what I was about. And I was very nervous because I knew how important that meeting was. I really, you know, called upon my, you know, I had to certainly forget about my record. I was 100 games under 500 as a manager and been, you know, fired by three different teams. But I, you know, I was confident I could do the job. It was just a matter of, and being a New Yorker certainly helped because one thing about New Yorkers, you know, you can, you can talk a good game, but you've got to show them what, you know, what you're made of and what you can do. So and I was thinking about the sports, Jack. I was thinking about teams when Super Bowls or the NBA Championship and, you know, a lot of those teams never showed up again because they spent the time just, you know, in the glory bathing in the glory of what they accomplished. And I wanted more than that, especially being with the Yankees and what the Yankees history tells you they're used to doing and the expectations. And the one thing I hit on, and it was based on my thoughts as far as other sports teams manage when they win and, and, you know, this past year may have been the Boston Red Sox. You know, I mean, last year, the Boston Red Sox, it looked like they were digging in for the long haul and all of a sudden they never even get the playoffs this last year. You just celebrate it. It's something, your goal you set for yourself when you accomplish it, you sort of exhale and you're not allowed to do that. So I knew my meeting, you know, basically I know a couple of things I said that every single one of my coaches have been to a World Series and I haven't and, you know, that I'm buying a ticket and, and then the one thing I, and I, again, you say things and you feel you need to say things. And then I've heard players, as you said, you talked to Paul O'Neill and he remembers certain things. I remember saying I, I don't want to win one World Series, I want to win three in a row. And, you know, I had planned to say that just to let them know that, yeah, you win one, but not that anybody can do it because it certainly, it took me generation before I got to it. But the fact that you really want to verify what you just did. So I said we win three in a row and as it turned out, we, we did win an almost four in a row, but that certainly wasn't, you know, what I was thinking when I said that I just want to let them know that even though you win, you still have to come back out there and do it again. So you mentioned that three in a row Yankees win 98, 99 in 2000 and as you said, almost one in 2001, but no team since that three P has even won back to back championships. So that three P has even grown, I think in impact over the last 20 years or so. How do you evaluate it? When you go back and look at what those teams did, how do you judge it? Well, it was something special. But again, it's, you know, you have to have the right makeup and I had a ball club and you've been around them long enough to realize that they stayed hungry. They never stopped to admire what they had accomplished. The one thing that I felt I could do was in the spring, well, actually the spring of 97 after we won in 96, you ran spring training in the exact same way. You know, you weren't going to go bathe in the glory of what look what we just did. So we tried to stay the course, did all the boring things in spring training cutoff, you know, hit the cutoff, man, relays, run down plays, all the things that you assume everybody knows, but you don't take it for granted by not thinking you have to cover it. So, you know, I know 97 hurt a great deal. I had trouble really peeling Bernie Williams off to the steps in Cleveland when he made the last out that day and Paul O'Neill was in another zone when he was at second base and I went out. I thought he had hurt himself when he slid in the second on the double. And he said, skip, I thought it was out, I thought it was out, skip, I thought it was out. So, this was a different group than I've ever, you know, been involved with they were riveted in what they needed to do and they were hell bent on doing it. Joe, your first year as manager was also Derek Jeter's first full season in the Major Leagues. He comes to New York. He's a 21 year old shortstop starting for the Yankees. We all know the stories about how there was some chatter in spring training. Is he ready? Is he not ready? And you said too late, he's our shortstop. How quickly did it become apparent to you that this kid was built for center stage? Well, I'll tell you, it happened before I even met him, to be honest with you. I remember the media when I was talking about, you know, looking to the spring training of 96. I said, Derek Jeter will be our shortstop. And then I happen to be watching the news one night, this is before we went to spring training and, you know, they posed a question to him about, you know, you're going to be the shortstop and his response was much better than mine because he said that I'm going to get an opportunity to play shortstop. In other words, you get a chance to win the job. And that sort of stuck with me. And then all spring, when he, as you said, you know, you mentioned he struggled. There's no question. He struggled, but I never saw any panic in him at all. And that's really unusual, especially, you know, you're in New York and the expectations are so high, but Derek was so and still is, you know, very comfortable in his own skin that, you know, whatever was going to be, you know, the result of spring training, you know, he was going to accept it. But when you're right, when we got toward the end and there was some chatter about, you know, we can send them out and make a deal. We have this extra picture. What's his name? Mariano Rivera. That's right. We can make a trade. You know, I said, you know, I basically, my opinion was you can always send them out, you know, it doesn't have to be now. But let's start the season and see what happens. And of course, he showed us what happened. First, first game, it's a home run makes a, makes a back to the, you know, to the field catch and left center field. And, you know, we're off to the races. You also mentioned Mariano Rivera. I thought early in 1996, you used the perfect word to describe having him in the bullpen. You called him indispensable. What type of weapon was Mariano for you? Not only in 96 where he played a different role as a setup man, but then also when he becomes closer and going forward from there. Well, Jack, it was interesting because, you know, when we hit on that formula and I can't, I can't tell you today when that started. But, you know, I, I became brilliant, man. I only had a manage for six innings and Mariano would pitch the seventh in the eighth and then, you know, Wetland would get you on the edge of your seat once in a while and, you know, watch him finish it up. He was indispensable. It felt like he pitched every day and he just never, never disappointed. Then fast forward, you know, Wetland goes to free agency. We say, yeah, I, you know, I'd certainly be willing to take a shot with Mariano as the closer because he pitched in so many key situations during the course of the 96 season. And, you know, he stumbled. He stumbled around a little bit starting the season. And I remember, you know, the one game against Oakland had at Yankee Stadium. He, he pitched to the same hitter twice. And that's, that's not indicative of a successful closer. And I remember saying to him, because he was really down in the mouth. And I said, you know what? I don't know how long it's going to take, but it's yours. So, you know, you just, uh, hitch it up and go after it. And, um, he certainly showed us what he was made of. You know, before 1996, you mentioned it earlier. It had been more than 4,000 games for you as a player and a manager, not getting to a World Series. You had a great description once you said, used to be like watching everybody else eat an ice cream Sunday and you weren't allowed to have a bite. You get there in 96, you win in 98, 99 in 2000. 20 years later, we're going back and talking about that run. How much pride, how much emotion, how much joy oozes out of your pores when you get the chance to reflect on those years? Yeah, you know, I, I, I still get goosebumps. You're talking about it now because you never lose the connection with those players. And, you know, and, you know, I get a chance to see, you know, Clay Bellinger now because of his son, but he's knocking it out in the National League. You know, and he was in the family room with my daughter, you know, when you think about that, but there's a connection that doesn't go away when you win a championship and these players that are included in it. And of course, the core four can't say enough about, you know, Posada, even though he wasn't a roster guy that first year, you know, after that, he certainly was a huge part of what we did. I, you know, I think, you know, if you count postseason for him and for Pettit, those are Hall of Fame numbers when you watch how they played under pressure. And it was just unbelievable. And of course, you know, Derek and, and it was it was pretty special to see those guys year in and year out, maintain the hunger they had to go out there and, and, and, you know, beat people. Joe, you've mentioned the hunger a couple of times. You and I both know there are very talented teams that sometimes never even get to a World Series, but you had talented teams who delivered beyond the talent and the hunger. Were there other factors that stood out for you that made those teams so special? Character, character, they, they never panicked. I mean, you know, they, they tried like crazy sometimes. I mean, it was like getting blood from a, from a stone there, like even in 2001, trying to score a run or trying to clinch it in 2000, when we basically backed in the winning the division and we won 80 something games. But it was a group of a group of grown ups that showed up every day and, and, you know, and went out there and we're going to do their job. You know, Derek, Derek was the leader. There's no question in my mind to see even the veterans and during that 90s, 60s and we're looking for him once August came around. They were looking for Derek to do something, you know, instrumental in that game that the that we were playing. And, you know, he certainly didn't disappoint. They weren't afraid to fail, Jack. Yeah, it's nice to to get the confidence of winning on a regular basis. But you know what the formula is and the formula is, don't take anything for granted at 98 season was magical. I mean, we just we just never lost. I mean, you know, we lost what? First three out of four games or four out of five games, whatever it was. But it was crazy. It was you go out there and you the patients and you can't appreciate unless just you're in that dugout and realize that these guys never lost their focus. And that, you know, I just felt very fortunate to, you know, be able to ride that horse. You know, I know Babe Ruth and Lou Garrick aren't here to fight for their team. And it's difficult to compare generations. We could we could do some simulated games on the computer. But since you brought up the 1998 Yankees, do you consider them the best team of all time? I think so, you know, what we accomplished. And again, we didn't have excuse me. We didn't have any slam dunk all stars all the time. I mean, even 90 I mean, 96 probably because it was my first championship. That was the club that I think I'll always be close to because of the biting and scratching and I remember George about halfway through the season said, I don't know how you're doing it. You're doing it with mirrors or something because, you know, how he used to like to to beat teams up, you know, we were winning by a run here, run there. A squeeze play, which certainly wasn't indicative, wasn't indicative. And George didn't want it to be of who the Yankees were. You know, he liked the big boppers. And, you know, then of course, you know, we get strawberry and Cecil fielder and it sort of changed our personality. But they they they were 98 club and not only the fact that we won 114 games, because that was surpassed a couple of years later by by Seattle. But the fact that we went into postseason and had to get through Cleveland, you know, after playing a sloppy game to here and losing game three to them in the post and postseason. To go back and come out and just, you know, win the whole thing. I mean, that you talk about pressure, you know, that and and also beating the Mets in 2000, it wasn't a whole lot of fun until it was over with. All right, Joe, I'm going to intensify the pressure of this interview to help your players. And I've played a little game with them where I asked them the first word of phrase or anecdote pops to their mind when I mentioned a name. So I did this with a couple of your guys. I have to say, Bernie Williams, what jumps to mind for you? A leader that shocked them when I told him he was a leader. He said, what do you mean? I said, well, you go out there and play every day. You know, that that that was indicated, you know, Bernie, Bernie willed himself to win, but but he was a leader. And and he fit right into what Don Mattingly used to call him Bambi because that that's, you know, he was a glider. He was really special, but he was a leader when, you know, when I know I can count on putting him in the line up every single day. That that that's a good indication for me. How about a lefty that you relied on a lot and picks a lot of big postseason games? Andy Pettit. Andy Pettit was magic for me. When I first saw him prepare for games, I thought he was scared to death. So he'd be sitting there in the train, his room staring. And then when you, you know, watched how he went out on the mound and even though he was, you know, sort of a type A personality, really trying to harness stuff. When he had to make a play, you know, you've seen him come off the mound, even though he wasn't the most, you know, he wasn't a gazelle. I mean, he'd come off and make a play. And then when I took him out, if looks could kill, man, I tell you what, I can't tell you how many times Jack, he used to come in my office before he went home on the days he pitched that didn't finish and apologize for showing me up. I said, you keep showing me up the way you think you're showing me up. I never want you to come out of a game, but he was special. You're inextricably linked because 1996 was the first full season for both of you. How would you describe Derek Jeter? Well, of course, man, he was he was the guy you could ride. Um, he he could go five to five. Jack, if we lost the game, he'd be an unhappy camper. I could tell you that where, you know, I've played on a lot of teams that didn't win and guys would come in the clubhouse. They'd get three or four hits. They'd be satisfied with that day at the office. But that that was not acceptable to Derek. And you got to see the blossoming of the greatest closer in baseball history. Mariana Rivera. Money. What can I tell you? You know, I put my hands in my pockets when I brought him in the game. That was it. I became a fan like the rest of the people in the ballpark. And when loser draw, he was going to be out there and. You know, be that be that guy who you can count on in the game. I remember the one game where I was really resentful. Probably the only time I was resentful of the the Met fan. I mean the Met fans. I'm all right. The Yankee fans when they boot him, I guess it was game. He gave up the lead against Boston or something and will come off the field because I had to take him out of the game and they boot him. And I was resentful of that. Only because of, you know, how often he was out there and how often, you know, he just walked off in victory. And how about a guy who Jeter was the captain? What I used to feel is that for a passata kind of was a captain in the clubhouse sometimes too with the way he worked with his pitchers. What stood out about Jorge? Passion. He willed himself. You know, for a guy who struck out a lot and, and, you know, talked a lot and was very animated. He was very reliable when it came to, you know, calling a game. And again, that wasn't Eastie Pam. He started out as an infielder and normally catchers really have to have a feel for calling a game. And we've had a lot of conversations over the years when he was, you know, when he was playing because, but he would, he would take, you know, take the criticism the way it was meant to try to help. Joe, a couple of my yes colleagues, of course, were former players for you. I need to start out with a guy who I think you love his fiery nature as much as anyone, Paul O'Neill. Oh, the warrior. I mean, I think, I think George Steinbrenner named him perfectly. You know, he'd bite and scratch if he had a chance to bite that bat when he made it out, he would do it. The only thing I ever caution Paulie about was if you hurt yourself and you can play, I'll break your neck. That's all I got. I'll kill you. And, and things, you know, it may have come out, Jack, but when he used to come into the dugout after he made it out in the key situation, you know, he'd break a bat, he'd go down underneath and all kinds of noise. And then he'd come up and, and walk by Zim and I and he'd be mumbling and all that kind of stuff. And then Zim would tell him that because he'd always say, you know, I stink, I could, you know, I, I should go find a job, blah, blah, blah. And Zim said, you know, there's a sender block place in Cincinnati. I know they're looking, you could really help. And I can't tell you, I can't use the words that he would yell at Zim after that, but it was funny. It was funny. Every manager wants to know when he gives the baseball to a starting pitcher that that pitcher is going to give every ounce of his being to try and help a team win. I know that David Cohn fell under that heading for you. That was all about trust right there. If there was ever a man that could will himself to do something. I'll give you a couple of instances. I met first off, you know, he was a free agent and, you know, I just let it be known how important he would be for us to to resign him. And then of course he had the aneurysm and spring training and you know, and it was devastating. And but, you know, I, I, in 96, when we won, you know, in 96, probably the best decision I made, the biggest decision I made in, in the World Series was to pitch him game three. And I remember, and again, you know, he's a superstar. He's a number one pitcher on any staff. And I, I called him in and I explained why I wanted to pitch him in game three. I should do the only one that ever pitched in that ballpark. And that could be intimidating to a starter because the ball jumps out of there. And, you know, again, he took that role and got us win number one in 96. And that was huge for us. It really was. And then there was, I think it was 98. If I'm not mistaken. He was pitching to Cleveland and at home. And we had a pretty good lead. And I remember going out when Manny was the hitter. And he said, I'll get this guy. And I turned around and walked right back to the dugout. Manny popped up. But I should have taken him out of his word. He said, I'll get this guy. And then told me he had a grand slam off him, you know, but. And then, then the one, if there was ever a doubt about trusting him, brought him in in the one run game in 2000 in the world series and Denny Nagel, I think still doesn't talk to me to this day. Two out in the fifth inning. And I just didn't want Nagel to pitch to Piazza again. And Coney cranked it up in the bullpen and come in and razzle dazzle them and pop them up with like an 85 mile an hour fastball. You left one out, Joe. You mentioned the game three and 96, but you had to have a face to face eyeball to eyeball meeting with him during a tense moment. And he said to you that, that he was okay. Said after the game, he was lying. But then in my book, he said, well, I was lying when I said I was lying. I really believed I could get those guys out. Well, as I said, I think he could will himself to do things. And even though he lied to you, he was still going to make find a way to make it, make it come true because there's no question if you ask him how he feels or if he's all right to pitch to this next guy, he is never going to tell you I've had enough because he's going to, you know, choreograph something for you. And, you know, whether it's sidearm overhand screwball, whatever the heck he had to make up, he was going to get it done. And David Cohn was was one of a kind when it came to that. Joe, when you see these players, either it's an entire group of them, or if it's individually, do you immediately transport yourself back? Are you back in the clubhouse? Are you back in the dugout to those memories just flood forward when you see some of your former Yankee players? Yes, yeah, that there was there was a closeness that we had that was unparalleled in my career. I know that I mean, I, you know, I played with some very special players, but the group as a whole the unselfishness that we had, you know, you go back to the first game we played in the 96 playoffs. And I wasn't sure if I was going to DH, you know, Strawberry or Cecil Fielder and Strawberry walked in the clubhouse and he's, I said, Straw, I got an issue here. He's, I said, I don't know. I'm going to DH. You were big daddy. He says, have big daddy DH. I can handle sitting on the bench better than he could. Cause I didn't listen to him. I played Strawberry and he went hitless against Perkins. But that, that's the kind of group I had.