 All right, there's one way to more than triple your odds of long-term fitness and health success. In fact, the thing I'm about to say is probably the most reliable way that you can dramatically improve your odds of long-term success. Hire a good trainer or a good coach. By the way, I say good because hiring a bad one isn't going to help you. But if you find a good trainer or a good coach, you'll more than triple your odds of success. What does that look like? For the average person, when somebody loses weight, they probably will succeed long-term by about 5% to 10% of the time. It's not good at all. With a good trainer or a good coach, you're looking at between 30% to 50%. Now, that doesn't sound great, but it's phenomenal when you compare it to the alternative. So if you want to go from almost 0% success to something like 30% to 50% success, hire yourself a good coach. There's nothing better. You know what's funny about that stat, by the way? Normal training and baseball, right? Those are the two things where if you hit bat for like about 300, pretty good. If you fail more than half the time, you're still really good. You're still crushing, right? I see where you're getting this. Yeah. If you're a trainer and you get like 30% of your clients to have like long-term success as defined by they lose weight or they get fit and then they maintain it forever. It's something they develop. It's a relationship that they keep going on for the rest of their life. You're killing it. You're really doing a great job. I mean, still 30, you know, 30, 50% still, you know. Yeah, I was hoping you weren't going to like, because when we had this baseball game that we had did with our personal trainers before it was pretty depressing. Oh, no. I had a lot of expectations about how fit and athletic and, you know, awesome it was going to be and everybody just like completely sucked. Yeah, they don't have no skill. Yeah. Baseball, personal trainers, it's not a good mix. No, no, no. This is actually the stat that I think eventually made me tired of personal training. I had a hard time with making peace with that. Like, and I don't think I didn't go into it knowing that stat. Like I didn't realize, I thought that way more people had way more success with weight loss, especially if you had the formula, right? If I knew what you need to do macronutrient wise, program wise, things like that, that there would be a much higher success rate. But even when you're really, really good, you're only clipping at 30% if you're lucky with your clients. And so 70% of the time you fail, that gets. They used to eat at me. No, it's that's what, I mean, I really think that's what pushed me into management and less, and I less, I liked training less because I got tired of that. I got tired of, and there was much more success with coaching trainers. Teaching trainers had to build their business and be successful. Even though there's a high turnover rate, even on trainers, I felt I had more success helping them than I did with clients because, and now a lot of that you have, I think it's important to note that a lot of that has to do with adherence, right? Because there's a large percentage of that 70% that fail, more than half of them, it's purely because they don't even adhere to the advice. 100%. Absolutely. Yeah. Look at the stat of like somebody just coming to the gym without any kind of coaching and guidance. Oh, zero to five percent. Barely even there. Well, we used to have a, we used to have a stat at 24 that if a person got a gym membership without a trainer, they fell off in the first three to seven months on average. If they got five personal training sessions, that was it. Which is nothing. Yeah. Which is nothing. Five personal training sessions with a trainer, they were there, that average person would stay longer than three plus years. I mean, so, I mean, that's huge. That's a huge return. Yeah. I mean, first off, this highlights just how hard it is, right? So, because people listen like, oh my God, that's, wow, you're considering really good success rate in a 30, 40, 50%, you know? So half or less. But yeah, but that's because it's hard. The modern world in our lifestyle, just the default lifestyle is designed to make you obese and unhealthy. You literally, literally have to be weird. You have to be on the fringe. You have to be not normal or not average in order to maintain a healthy body and a healthy, you know, good fitness and good mobility for the rest of your life. You can't be like most people. And that's hard. Like think of anything that is against modern society, against what you would do on a regular basis. That means you have to develop behaviors and disciplines and structures that you're not going to get normally. You're not going to learn it at home growing up. You're not going to learn in school. We're not going to learn at work. It's just not going to happen. So that's why this success rate is so low. All the cards are stacked against you. Now that being said, this is just reality. This is just reality. Here's your two numbers. Zero to 5% success versus maybe 30, 40% success. Okay. So obviously one's a lot better than the other. So your best bet is to hire a coach or trainer. And by the way, that 30 to 40% success rate, what's thrown into that are people that work with a trainer for two months or three months or whatever. People that work with a trainer for a year or two year consistently, I bet you that number is probably double that. So because towards the end of my career, my success rate long-term with clients was pretty high. I would say probably closer to 70% of my clients develop really good behaviors, but these were people that work with me. The long-term ones. Long term, right? Long term. So that's, that's what you have to understand and consider, but there's nothing more effective than hiring a good guide because this is a process. This is not a, you know, I thought the same thing Adam, when I became a trainer, I thought, well, I'm just going to give people the answers and they're going to follow it and that's going to work. Well, that's, that's like nothing. That's nothing. I thought success where I was getting people to lose weight and I got everybody to lose weight, but that nobody kept it off. And that same thing, I remember when I figured that out and I was like, wow, this sucks. Like I got to keep getting new clients and ones that fall off, end up getting out of shape. Like, like, when does this stop? When am I able to really fix this? I think that's the other part that was really hard as a, as a young trainer is people just, people hire you and they just want the answers. And so when you've, because they don't know, they have no idea. Yeah. And I don't, they don't realize that, you know, even if I just give you the answers, um, you're, if I just give you the answers, you're more than likely going to fail down the road. And so, you know, you're in this service based business and so, and, and you're trying to build your business and your book and you have these people that are hiring you and they're like, just tell me, just tell me what I need to eat, just tell me what I need to do. Everybody says that. Everybody says that. And when you're young, it's kind of like, oh, fuck, you know, we can tell this person like, no, it's not how this is going to work. Like later on, when you build confidence and you have the track record, sure, that's easy to, to have that attitude. But when you first start out, it's really difficult to overcome that objection as a, as a trainer, you know, or how do I, how do I solve this, this problem that our people are telling me what I need to give them in reality, if I just do that, even if we get to our goal, say in three or six months, they're going to put it all back on after they leave. Yeah, I mean, we're in the information age. A lot of this information is out there, you know, like to be able to research and find like a good workout routine to find good nutrition, like programs and things like that. But to go through the process and to get in that mental place where, you know, you're, you're going to be successful and you're going to do it long term and adhere to it. That's a whole another concept. It's also to understand what to expect and what the process feels like and looks like, because that is a lot of people don't understand that. Oh, you mean when I first start this weight loss journey, I'm not going to lose weight. I'm going to try and build. Yeah. Oh, you mean, you know, protein and calories, I have to increase them a little bit. I don't feel that you mean workouts aren't going to feel like I'm dying. It's going to feel like, you know, I'm kind of like easy at first because I got to get my body. You mean I have to learn these skills of movement. I can't just go to the gym and beat myself up. Like, and what does that feel like and what does this process look like? Oh, there's other signs to look for. Like maybe the scale is not moving down, but wow, my energy is better. My libido is better. I have better movement. I didn't even know to pay attention to those things. This is what a guide, you know, helps provide for you. It helps you along that path and then helps modify and teach you how to read your own body. But, you know, one of the challenges with this, and there's more resources now, but one of the challenges with this is trainers were never trained on this. When we learned how to become trainers, they teach you biomechanics. They teach you calories, proteins, fats, carbs. That's it. They don't teach you any of this other stuff. You have to learn through experience. You have to learn through five, at least five years of training people how this works, how this doesn't work and what happens. And there was no courses at the time. There are now, but at the time, there were no courses that taught you this. You had to kind of figure this out on your own. It was a lot of trial and error. And the ones that stuck around were the trainers that really cared about people and really were able to crush their own egos and figure out that they were not doing a good job and all that stuff. Nowadays, thankfully, I have companies like NCI where, you know, the reason why that's the only certification course we officially work with is because that's what they focus on. No other course really does that right now. Like there's really no course that teaches you this entire process. All the other courses are still about the X's and O's and the connecting dots. That's part of the formula. But the other part of the formula I would argue is much more important. The application. That's it. I mean, that was... That's everything. It's really... I mean, I don't know of anybody else that's doing it like them. I mean, that was what was so attractive to their business was that it wasn't... Not only were they on point, like a precision nutrition is a popular nutrition certification in our space. But again, it's very formal, just like all the other national certifications where it's like, so it's very science heavy, very basic protocol heavy. It's not like application. It's not like, oh, what do you do if they want to do this? And how do you... How do you communicate to them of this? Yes. And so I think that's what NCI did. Such a good job was filling in that gap. I mean, a lot of that think of what attracts people to the podcast is that we help kind of fill in a lot of those places. Because there's nothing on the podcast that we talk about that you can't chat GBT or Google search that. I mean, you can. You can literally find the information. But it's the application process, the communication that we have on the show that we talk about for an hour. So all the nuances, because it's not black and white. And NCI does a really good job of, I think, bridging that gap between your standard certification and then like how to really apply that to clients. Right. All right, today's giveaway, Maps and a Ballock. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. We're also running a sale this month. Maps starter, the beginner resistance training program is 50% off. And then the starter bundle that includes Maps and a ball and Maps Prime is also 50% off. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the rest of the show. All right. So I want to address the elephant in the room because I guarantee people watching us on camera right now are like, why is Sal and Adam so dark? Why is it going to be an elephant? Yeah. What is that? And why is Justin red? What happened to everybody's skin? We got back from vacation. That was a good talk. How do you guys see this? This is like tan. The red is tan for you, guys. Adam and I look like we wear all the beach. You just look like you're embarrassed. Your skin just gets red. By the way, dude, you got to use the red light therapy for that. Really? For sunburn. Okay. Yes. It will make it well. I'll do that to my back because I actually was pretty happy with the fact that I didn't get too crispy or anything. There's levels, you guys. Did you lay out at all? I mean, did you actually lay out by a pool? I think you just did a lot of stuff. Yeah. So Justin and I were, and we were in play with our families. That was a good time. You guys did all. I mean, you kids are old enough. You guys did a lot of adventure. Well, that's the thing. I just had to keep them busy. And honestly, it's the best recipe because then their behavior and everything, they don't like just attack each other constantly. They were like totally like cool. And we had a great time with the kids because we kept them busy, you know? And we staggered it so we'd do some days where we were chill and we were doing the pool thing and all that. But we would definitely do the adventures and all that. We'd kind of undulate it. But yeah, I mean, I did get a lot of sun. Like I was out in the pool and I was out there getting a lot of exposure, but was constantly kind of like getting sunblock and all that. So I had to make sure I didn't get too crazy. What did you guys, you guys did horseback riding? I saw that. Horseback riding. We did this boat tour where it was it was like on those inflatable boats that... Is that the one they canceled and they redid it? They canceled, we did it. We did it a couple of days later. Epic. It was good because it was like the best weather. We went further than we've ever been because we did it one time before, but this time we went all the way to the Poly Coast to the very end. And so there was this one part was this cave tunnel. And so we went through a couple that we've been through before. There was this one I didn't know they had at the very end and he just like decides to bomb it and he's like going full speed into a cave. And I'm like, oh, shit. We're all just like holding on for dear life. And he just knew exactly that, you know, the dimensions of it. So I was able to kind of like go in and like go through the other side clean and everything we didn't hit anything. But I just it was dark. You had no idea where we're going. Like I was just glad that he knew. Like we had no idea. It was just like he was just going full speed into this like cave. Like that was pretty sketch. I'm so glad I cancelled mine. Oh, you'd have loved it. No, you would have loved it. This guy is like cabanning the whole time. I did. Yeah. So you guys did those two that you guys go hiking? Did you do Waimea or anything like that? Yeah, we did. We did a hike which was like this one I actually preferred the one we did last time. But this one was like all out in the open. And we went about halfway and realized that like to be able to get back up, we're not going to be able to go all the way. Which one was it? What's hike? It was it was Waimea, but it was like it was a different it was a different hike. It was cool. It was fun. It was really that was a challenging hike. It wasn't anything relaxing about. I love I love Kauai. I love cool. It's like if you like outdoor shit and like jungles and hiking and stuff like that. That's where all the locals the locals love that more than it's the most islandy feel least touristy. You know, I love the islands. We did. I've been to Waimea. So this obviously I have two little ones. So we don't do anything. We just go and we stay by the pool. Yeah, yeah. The pool and the beach all there. Yeah, I don't know if that would be different if you didn't have kids or not. Huh? No, I didn't. Come on. Let's be honest. Dude, let's be honest. Well, okay. Truth. Hey, to be fair, when I went with Jessica and with just her nights when we first started dating and I had the, you know, well, she's adventurous. Correct. Yes. And I'm in love at the time. Yeah, yeah. So it's going to be awesome. Yeah, you try to get some. You know what I'm saying? So she's like, so. Oh, I love that she pressed them on that though. She's like, get some out and the outdoors and everything. Oh, I mean, I can only tease so far because I'm 100% that way. I mean, I'm just, vacation for me is a pool and book and like, I don't want to move. I don't want to make any, I want to make no plans. Like Cassie, my sister and her husband, hopefully she doesn't get mad at me for bringing this up. But they got into a fight before we come in because Tom is like extreme level of Justin and Courtney. Like they go hard. They go hardcore adventure and they are detailed planned. Like before they go to vacation. Like day one of this, day two. Not only day one this, day one, we get up at nine o'clock. We do this. We, we stop at this breakfast spot at 1030. Oh wow. Then we do this thing and then we catch lunch at two o'clock at this famous taco spot here. Like, I mean, he maps out and they're, they're on the go always. And you know, we came, we went up to truckie for the week. And she lives nearby there, right? So they were, and we, I had a bunch of my family that was up there. So of course my sister wanted to come over and see family. And it was telling Tom, like, hey, I want to go over and visit Adam. He's like, okay, well, what's the plan? You know, it's, you know, it's my brother. You know, there's, there's no real plan like that. He's like, well, what do you mean? Like, well, what day are we going to go over there? Well, I don't know. One of the days we'll go over there. He's like, well, I got my mountain bike and I've got this going on this thing. And so I know like, I'm the reason why they get into it because they'll call me and I'll be like, I don't, I have no plans. I'm all ask me that morning how I feel. Like I'll tell you what I got going on that day. You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, my attitude is this, like, hey, if you stop by, that's great. If you don't, I understand if you're busy and stuff like that. But you know, this is what it looks like when I'm on vacation. So you guys must have been by the pool or the, or the lake? Cause you got, yeah, we were, we were at the lake almost either the lake or by the pool, you know, the pool at our, our Reno spot that Max loves that. So it was hot up there. Oh yeah, I got hot. But not the, the back half. So the first half was, I mean, it was beautiful. The hot was 85. Okay. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That was the hottest day was 85. And we had two days of that. I also golfed all day. So I golfed on the hottest day. You know, we were out at the pool a couple of days. We were on the lake a couple of days. So I was, I was out in the sun, but chill. Everything was, yeah. No, we were, we were, uh, we were by the pool, the beach all day. And then, um, so my son is my youngest, right? My Aurelius, he's like I am. So it took me four days to get him to really go into the pool. Cause he's super cautious. There's, in fact, at one point he had his life vest on, his hat, his little sandals. And he stand, the kid pool is like literally this deep. It's only like, I don't know, like 12 inches. And he's just standing with his feet and he's just looking around. I'm like, get in the water. No, you're just looking at everybody. All right, whatever, bro. It's just that right there. And there's, I mean, Aurelius and Max are a lot alike in that, in that sense. They both are very cautious. I mean, Max is going to be four years old this week. And, uh, he's still like sometimes scoots his butt down the stairs. Ah, he's just like, oh my son, yeah. Yeah, like you just, now granted, his mother also like, so it started like, you know, she was, she's always been really cautious with him going down the stairs. And, and then like, when we started letting him go down the stairs by himself, she'd be like, scoot on your butt. Scoot it. So she's trained him to do that. And she's still to this day, I hear her do it sometimes when he's like, all right, mom, I'm gonna go downstairs, get a banana. And she's like, all right, go down on your butt. Let the poor kid go down the stairs like, he's going to be 16, scooting on the fucking stairs. She'll say, and his friends are going to be like, what the fuck are you doing? Oh, my mom always told me to scoot on my butt on the stairs. So it's like, be careful how hard wire you are to wire this. She'll say, well, at one point, because you know, when you go, when you're on vacation with little ones, it's, it's different. It's a different vacation. You're not, you're doing, you know, what they want to do and it's busier and you got to pack. Bro, that's just live as a dad now. Every part of your day is the fucker about you. At one point though, I had this epiphany where I'm, we're trying to structure their fun. Do this, do that. And I'm like, you know what? He's going to just do, let me just let them do what they want. And I'm just going to hang out with them. I don't know why I keep trying to tell them what to do. So at one point, I'm like, I did that. I figured that out. And what my son wanted to do was go play by the water fountain and play with the water. I'm like, all right, let's go do that. So we go over there and then I made a mistake. And I made a total dad mistake. We were outside. So I thought, oh, I'm going to teach him how to spit water out of his mouth. Well, what do you think he did the whole trip at every restaurant? Were you with us when he did that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're at a restaurant. Nice restaurant. My son just walks up to me. Pfft. All over the place. Oh, man. He's crazy. He's dude. That's the best. He's just going to look at me all angrily. Dad, he taught me that. Yeah, like, damn it. So now at home, that's what he's doing. He's just spitting everyone. Oh my God. I'm like, no, buddy, you got to do it outside. He did it at Jason's house yesterday. He did? Yeah, because he's got grass in the back. He's got the fake grass, though. But he's just spitting out food. I'm like, no, he can't do that. He's like, why? It's outside. I don't know what to really say. I taught Max to piss outside, which I'm sure you went through this also. And so I've already had to wrangle. That's all he wants to do now. Oh, yeah. So we're in public places. He's like, I'll just go pee on the tree, Dad. There he is. I'm like, no, no, no, no. We do that at home when we're at work. There's people. Yeah, yeah. We don't do it when we're at public places. No, no, Dad, I'll just go pee right here. And I'm like, no, no, no, we don't want to do that. So yeah, it's those things when you don't really think all the way through. You're like, oh, this will be cool. I'll teach him that. He can just go pee right here. You know, hop out of the jacuzzi, pee on the tree right there. There's nobody around. It's not a big deal. And then they register that as, like, oh, I could just go to the restroom like this now. Anywhere. Yeah. It's like, no, it doesn't fair the game. It doesn't work that way. Son, let me talk to you about Megan's law list. You can't do that. Dude, I have a story for you guys. I've been waiting to tell you once we got together. So we went up to Truckee with my family that I've told you. You guys heard me tell us there. You guys know who Stephanie is. Yeah. This was my, like, hardcore conservative side of my family. Like, they had five kids. They were all homeschooled. They all end up having four or five kids. Stephanie has five kids homeschooled all of those kids, grew up in church, very, very strict home they grew up in, very conservative, and, you know, a bit naive to some things. And I was the, like, the rebel bad cousin, you know? I'd come over and, like, they'd want to hear about, like, the latest, you know, hip-hop songs that were cussing and saying bad stuff or the latest slang terms or whatever like that. And so, and they'd sit around and I, so that was, like, how we grew up, right? So she's, and she had, and I absolutely love her and her family. Her kids are amazing. And so she has this bit of night. She's a little bit naive with some things, right? Well, she's got the five kids. Her oldest Rachel is, I think she's at, like, I don't know if this was when she was in high school or this was middle school when she's, she's at a church camp. And my, my cousin, Stephanie, she had bought all the kids these big beach towels and she got them. So each kid had their own. So it was, like, you have the banana one, you have the palm tree ones. They all have, like, their patterns on them that are, like, you know which one's yours so they don't fight over whose towel. Well, she does this, like, I don't know, a couple of weeks before they go to church camp, Rachel goes off to church camp. And it's, like, I think the second day that they're there, she gets a phone call from, like, the major camp counselor there, whether or not they say. Yeah, we're calling about your daughter's towel. Oh, I got it. I tell me yes. She's, like, was it eggplant? She goes, no, she goes, she goes, what's wrong with it? She goes, the marijuana leaf. Oh, she didn't even know that that was a marijuana leaf? So she had to Google marijuana leaf and look it up. She just thought it was, like, one of those Japanese who like plants. So is this a Canadian towel? Yeah, so I got a picture of it. You never get a weed towel. I got a picture of it, dude. It's a fucking, like, all weed plants all over. Now it's colored, right? It's, like, this purple and blue, like, it's all these, but it's, it is marijuana leaves, like, crazy. She had no idea that it was that. She said there's a church camp like that. That's hilarious, dude. Oh my God. Yeah, she had a group. That's cute. I know. It was, like, so endearing, right? It's like she had no idea what a marijuana leaf looks like or just a, I mean, and also in her defense. That's funny. Like she found a website. It's like bananas, palm trees. I mean, it's all, it wasn't like, wasn't like on a, like a stoner page where it's like marijuana plants, bongs, smoke, up in smoke. You didn't have anything to say, like, lit or anything like that. It was just, just all these trees and plants and fruit. And then marijuana leaves. And so she sent her kid off the church camp with that. That is so cute. Oh God, it was so funny. How old is it? Rachel. So Rachel's in high school right now. And high school. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So all the kids there were like, oh my God. She's really into reggae. Yeah, so I'll have to ask her what it was, because I know it happened in the last couple of years. I don't know if this was right before Rachel got into high school or she was in high school, but she's the, yeah, she looked like she was in high school in the picture that I saw. So it must have been more recent than I even think. So yeah. Did you guys know the Declaration of Independence was written on hemp? Everybody know that? Hemp paper. Well, they used to use hemp like crazy. Yeah. It was actually, there were major crops. William Hearst that like paper, also clothes, it was really popular. Yeah, no, Justin, a lot of people don't know that. William Hearst, right? Yeah. It was a newspaper or he, he. He really a big media newspaper publishing company. Yeah, and he wanted, he was competing because he made, was it paper that he made from wood pulp? Yeah, I think so. And he wanted to crush hemp paper and stuff. So they, he put out these newspapers propagandizing against hemp. Yeah, it's terrible propaganda ads. Yeah. And that was some of the first laws against it. I was going to say that's what, I mean, there's all kinds of laws against it, but it's because it was super competitive, right? That was the reason why it got shut down and because you can make a ton of stuff with, with hemp. So much. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like, I mean, even, wasn't it like rope and everything too? And like all kinds of like, yeah. All kinds of like tap, like, I forget like what other kind of materials, but there's like a ton of different things you can make. Yeah, actually, if you look at hemp and the ability for the, the speed at which it grows, and the products, and the products that it can create, it's actually a pretty damn versatile. Super durable. Crop. Yeah. Super durable and great for the environment. You know, grows really fast, apparently easy to grow hemp. We're talking about not necessarily marijuana, but yeah, pretty interesting. That's why. Yeah. And that was the first propaganda. What was, you know, back to you guys as vacations, I wanted to ask you, like, because you, especially you, you did so much. What was your favorite thing that you did while you were out there? There was a couple of things, but I think, I mean, the boat tour was great, but I think honestly it was like, because the North Shore was open again, the last time I had gone, like I think there was like a landslide, a mudslide that like prevented you from going up towards Princeville and all that up on that side. And so we were able to do tunnels, this beach that you can do snorkeling. And so we did that like twice. It was just so epic. Like you could just, the kids were, it was actually really cool because we kind of sat back and we're watching the kids as they went back in and they, like they were just like, oh man, I see that. Like you could just see their excitement as they're like seeing all the turtles and like all the stuff. Like they were everywhere. They're like, the fish were everywhere. It was like totally epic. So that was cool. We didn't do a ton, but we did go to Poipu Beach and there's a section there where sea turtles come up. So I don't know what I, okay, I had a complete misunderstanding. So my, first of all, on the way there to Kauai, getting my kids excited, getting my son excited, I'm like, you're going to see fish, you're going to see turtle. He's like, turtle, turtle. So the whole time he's like, I want to see turtle. I want to see turtles. So we're like, okay, we got to go and see turtles. And so I asked people at the resort and they said, oh, Poipu turtles come up. Now I thought it was like little turtles. I thought little turtles were- You did? Yeah, I don't know why I thought that. Oh, yeah. Bro, they're massive, massive. So they all come up and we get there and they're already up on the beach, but they're not moving. And it's, my son can't, because he knows turtles that look like this, right? So he can't, I'm like, and you're, it's obviously kind of roped off, so you can't get close to them. Yeah, yeah. And he's looking at them and I'm like, that's a turtle. And he can't, you can tell he's like, you know, it's a rock. I'm like, no, that's a turtle. And then they start moving their flippers and his eyes open up and he realizes this is a giant turtle. And he looks up and he goes, this is kind of scary. It's a little bit scary. I said, no, they're not going to get us. Don't worry. I made the same mistake with Max last year when we went to Hawaii. We stayed at Turtle Bay. So, and that was my first time staying at Turtle Bay. And I just assumed Turtle Bay. Turtles. Lots of turtles. No turtles. So the whole time I'm like, we're going to Turtle Bay. You're like hyping it up. Yeah, I'm hyping it up. We're going to swim with turtles this, because I've been in Hawaii and actually swam with the turtles and seen massive turtles. And so I just assumed if we were going to Turtle Bay, there was going to be like more turtles than I've ever seen there. And so I was like hyping it up the whole trip to get there. So the whole trip, where's the turtles, daddy? Where's the turtles? I was like, no turtles. Yeah, no turtles. I'm like, we're driving all over the island looking for turtles. But he threw in a little tantrum at a luau. We did a luau, which there's this luau we go to every time we go to Hawaii, Smith's family. It's been around for a long time, right? Yeah. And I was hyping it, telling him about the fire guy dancing with fire. Anyway, he's walking, whole time he's glued to it, right? Because they have the, they all, he likes fire stuff. So fire's coming, he's excited. It ends, right? It's over. It's like nine o'clock at night, 9.30 at night. Do it again. I'm like, we can't, it's over, buddy. Boom, throws a full blown tantrum there in the middle of the luau. I try to walk with him like, I'm sorry, buddy. I want to see it again. Like, I wish I could do that for you, but I can't. Dude, Max was throwing a fit. The day we were leaving, and my buddy, my buddy's family and his kid was up there, which is his like best friend who's a year older, him hunter, and they're both into Mario Brothers. And they got all their like Mario Brothers, this and that, and they like, they were playing, and they were great the whole weekend. It's just when they're starting to leave, they're messing with each other. And Max starts getting home mad, and he's crying, and I come over, what's going on, what's wrong? He took my star, and I look at Hunter, and I'm like, star, what's, what's star? And then Katrina comes walking over, it's an imaginary star. I'm like, Oh my. So he's throwing a fit, because Hunter goes, I took your star. It's not even real. It's not even a tangible thing. And he's throwing a fit because he's like, and he's like crying. He won't give me my star back. And I'm like, Daddy takes it right from him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretend him to me. I was gonna say, he was so satisfied. He was a new one. He was so satisfied. I'll give you a power-up. Yeah, I'm like, I cannot believe he was throwing a fit over Hunter stealing his imaginary star. And the solution to it was, Daddy took it back, and Hunter was like, no, you didn't. I said, yes, I did. Yes, I did. Hunter starts crying. Tells his dad. You guys start fighting over the imaginary star. He's an imaginary star. You kids are so funny. I love it. That's funny. We were watching fireworks, you know, for the fourth, and you know, I explained to him how loud they were gonna be. But you know, when you don't see fireworks ever in front of you, so he's watching them all excited. They start getting loud. I can look, I'm looking at his face. I can tell little by little, he's getting scared. After about three or four of them, he's like, can we do something that aren't so loud? I'm like, these are fireworks, buddy. They're all loud. We're committed. We had to go inside. Couldn't finish the show. I was like, and Adam bought like, he bought, so he bought a box. Yeah, I saw he had this huge array of like, big old blasters. It's sad on the bottom. I know why Adam got this one. It's the same reason why I would have got it. On the bottom it said, Whisker D's, Whisker Don'ts, Joe Dirt, where he has all this like. No, it says on the bottom it says, the most powder allowed by law. Maximum the, maximum legal power. Yes. I'm like, hell yeah. It's so how I picked America. I bought it when we were, we were heading back from Truckee and we stopped and so I wasn't even planning on doing this. Like I, I stopped there on, because I knew in San Jose, I knew that it's illegal, right? Fireworks were illegal over here. And so I, I pull, I pull up, we go to the bathroom and there's a bunch of fireworks stands there. And so I'm like killing time why Katrina's inside with Max and I see all the fireworks. I'm like, oh man, I'm looking at them and I see this like the biggest box of like, and I'm like, those look badass. I'm like, I'm going to buy them. I'm going to buy those. And worst case scenario, if I can't light them up, light them somewhere, someday or whatever. So I literally asked, what's the biggest, baddest ones you have? And they were this, and there was only seven fireworks in there. But each one of them. They were like this big. Yeah. Each one was like a grand finale type of legit ones. They were legit. Those are the best fireworks, legal fireworks that I've ever bought before. It put on a really, yeah, we definitely had the best fireworks. They're not like the illegal ones we had when we were kids. Yeah. All we had was like snakes and like stupid shit. You ever shoot off M80s and stuff? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Definitely not around like adults. No, no, no, no, no, no. We would, yeah. Yeah. That was all underground. That's all very dangerous stuff. Lots of black cats and cherry bombs. And yeah, I was, I was that kid for sure. Hey, did you guys, so Brett Contreras did a big pose. You guys see the study? Oh, of course. Hip thrust versus squats. Of course, dude. I was quick to be on that thing, dude. I know. Okay. So here's the deal. If you listen to Mind Pump, you would already know. We, one hundred, literally confirmed everything that we said about squats versus hip. The whole debate, which one's better for your butt, blah, blah, blah. We're always saying, look, squats are probably generally better because they develop everything. It's more functional. Study comes back. Your signal. They both build the butt pretty similarly. Squats build everything else more than hip thrust. Now here's why, and I want to address this because there's definitely people listening right now who are saying, my butt didn't build with squats. They only built with hip thrust. Okay. Here's why. If you are unable to properly connect and fire your glutes with a squat, a hip thrust is better for you. Because it's a glute, essentially, it's not really an acylation. But it makes you squeeze the glutes and it helps you feel them. I would do hip thrusts with clients that were just quad dominant when they did their squats. But everybody else, generally speaking, squats are superior. And so I'm glad they did that. Yeah, I mean, the truth is, if you're trying to build your butt, it's an incredible, you would never want to not do one of them. Yeah, you do both. Yeah. I mean, if you're trying to build your butt, now, if you're not somebody who cares about building your butt that much and you just want overall balance, start like, that's why I don't hip thrust that much. It's not a big focus of mine to build my butt. You already have a nice butt. I mean, that's how good squats are, though. I mean, that's the point, is that it's not that hip thrusts aren't incredible and don't have tremendous value. It's just that squats are incredible for that and it hits all of that and some. And we've been saying this since day one. So in this study, because I know in the past, they weighed heavily on the muscle activation. That's the E. Yeah, the E-stamp stuff. Yeah, so that wasn't a huge part of this study. No, this was literally a study that looked at hypertrophy. So here's the thing. When you look at studies on, I think it's EMGMs or what MRI or activation of that stuff, that doesn't tell you the whole story because at the end of the day, who cares? It's about how much muscle you built and or how well you perform. That's it. That's just it. But a result. It doesn't matter. So a hip thrust, you'll squeeze your glutes at the top, but it doesn't load the glutes like a barbell squat, especially in a stretch position, for example. So when you compare them head to head, the glute gains are almost identical. The squats are superior with everything else. So if you want to pick one exercise for your lower body, make it barbell squats. Again, if you can't connect to your glutes, hip thrusts are great or doing both. This is like one of those like, you know, they have to, which one do you pick? Why don't you just do them both? Now, for performance, for athletic performance, you just can't come in. Come on, barbell squats all day long. A hip thrust can't compete with a barbell squat for just overall athletic performance. Well, I mean, period. I just don't think that it, I don't think it competes with it. I think it's a, I think hip thrusts are a great exercise as a secondary movement for somebody who's trying to build their glutes. But if, and that person really needs to be, that needs to be the primary focus for it to be a major thing to be in your routine. Otherwise, if you're hip thrusting more than you're squatting, you're missing out. I mean, squatting is, is, is superior for all those reasons that there's, you're getting more value than just glute activation. Right. In a good way, a good way to combine them is like that there's two ways to combine squats and hip thrusts. If you have no trouble connecting to your glutes with squats, so you're not super quad dominant, then do squats first and then do hip threats second. If you have trouble connecting your glutes, your quad dominant, do hip thrusts first, squat second. Now it's not because you prefatigued the glutes, it's not, it's literally, if you do a hip thrust for, if you have trouble connecting to your glutes when you squat, hip thrusts allows you to feel the glutes and then that should contribute to form that contributes to more glute activation. That's really all it is, the feel thing. So squats before hip thrusts for most people, hip thrusts before squats, if you're quad dominant and you have trouble feeling your glutes. I do want to point out that, I mean, this is another, or highlights another reason why I love Bretton Charis. I think the way he presented that with leading with, you know, I was wrong. This is what, I believe this to be true. Here's what the research said. To come forward like that, I think, and to present. He has integrity. Yeah. Hey, by the way, do you know why he was, you know why he's wrong? Because there was a self-selection bias with the clients that he got. He became known as the butt-building person. So the kind of clients that started coming to him Yes. were people that had challenges firing their glutes and building them with traditional exercises. So he would get these people who were more quad dominant or whatever, and he would do hip thrust and lo and behold, their butts would grow. So in his experience, hip thrusts were superior, but that's because he had a self-selection bias of people that came to see him. Yeah, really good point. Right. But now if you took the, like we did, not all of us train just everyday people. We didn't have, I wasn't known as the butt-building guy. I was just a personal trainer that at one point became known for being a good personal trainer. So all of the clients that came to me were just everyday people. I didn't have people specifically picking me because, oh, I can't build my butt doing squats and deadlifts. That's the guy that does that. So that's why he had that opinion. I mean, Justin was known as the ass man, but not for those reasons. Not for those reasons, yeah. Just on my license plate. The license plate. Did you guys know that there's a, I think this is true. There's a proctologist and that was his, that was his, his license plate. Ass man? Seems a little inappropriate. What's that, what's that a joke on? What's that a joke? It's in a movie. It's in a movie. It's in, Kill Bill. No, is it? No, no, no. That's a different. That's fuck-wagging or something. That's a fucking wagon. No. Ass man, I think, was in the one with Vince Vaughn. I think it was in Seinfeld, dude. And it's the one where he gets out with the bat and he's kind of, he acts all kind of gangster. What's he called? Damn, it's good. Andrew, you should know this one. Do you know, It was on Seinfeld? Oh, Seinfeld, yeah. Oh, maybe it's on Seinfeld. Yeah. So it's okay. So I saw it. Yeah, you see, I didn't say it. Cause I've seen that, I've seen that too before. You know, I'm a huge Seinfeld fan. So it was either that or that, the Vince Vaughn one, or both that I've seen that on. Did you guys see, I was like looking at, at Instagram my way back from White and I saw that, Oh, what's his name? I wasn't gonna say BJ Penn. It's not BJ Penn. It's, Oh my God. Why am I forgetting his name? He's the, the one that did all. Jake? No, he's up, up from Canada. George St. Pierre? George St. Pierre. God, why didn't he say his name? He did a confused BJ Penn address. They look alike. They're the same. Yeah. No, but so, so he did a post and he had Elon Musk training. Oh. Okay, so it's him. Is this really happening or is this just a bunch of bullshit? I think it's happening. No, it's not. Dana White came out and said that he might be ordering again. I've heard all kinds of crazy stuff. I've heard. You think it's just bullshit? I do. I have like, So first off, Okay. Zuckerberg has been training Jiu-Jitsu for a while now. Elon not, so Zuck in my opinion has a, but here's the deal. Why are you going to do this, Elon? You're going to take your time away from building billion dollar companies, solving the world's problems so you could fight, you know. I don't know, man. I feel like, Well, okay. I guess a lot of, They conquer so many things. It's almost like it's just another thing for him to kind of, Okay. Flex. You also have to understand that part of why Zuckerberg and Elon Musk especially. They're so competitive, dude. Well, no. In today's time, like part of being a really, really successful CEO, entrepreneur is that you are, you're out there promoting yourself. And Elon Musk is one of the greatest at promoting himself. This is another way to promote yourself, which in turn then helps all your businesses. So don't think of it as like, Oh, this is taking away from his company. He's like, No, this is self promotion. Well, here's the truth. Yeah. Okay. Here's the other side of it. Okay. These are billionaires. It's like a small club of people. And let's be honest, if we were all billionaires, like we would fuck with each other all day. 100%. Yeah. We shit like that. 100%. I don't know. So it's kind of funny. It makes perfect sense. It's kind of, because he was in the Mars race or whatever with what's his name. And you know, so I mean, that makes, as a person, I kind of feel like Elon's kind of hilarious. Like if I sat down with him, I'd be like, Oh man. Yeah. So I mean, Zuckerberg, like he went through that whole process of like going through the tournaments with BJJ. Right. So he was like, I'm sure he's like, feel confident with that. So Elon's like, let's do a cage match. Right. Just to up the stakes a little bit. Yeah. I think this is just all self-motion. I really do. Yeah. Yeah. I think that these guys have math. Listen, there is a ton. He's bigger than him. There is a ton of genius CEOs that are incredible that we don't even know the names of. Because they're old school. They don't self-promote. They're quiet. They crush it business. They go on to the next company, crush another company. And nobody knows who they are. Nobody knows because they're great at executing. What makes these guys so great is not only are they great at executing and building businesses, but they're also great at self-promoting. And to me, this is just another way to self-promote. I think that's what this is. Who'd you want to win if you watch them fight? Elon, of course. Come on, Elon. I don't know how to do this shit. I don't know how to do this shit. He's like an alien, dude. I don't think he's human. That's the reason why I don't want it to happen. I don't want to see Elon get beat. You don't want to see him get beat. I want to win. He outweighs Zuck, but Zuck's been training for a while. Zuck's got some skill, I guess. Yeah, but cage match means you could throw punches and stuff, too. Yeah, but yeah. He just closes this and takes him down. He'll beat him. Is he a purple belt or a higher? I think he's been training. Look, if you've been doing jiu-jitsu for two years, you'll submit most people if you hit the ground. Just because it's like swimming. You have to learn it. So you hit the ground. You don't know what you're doing. You move the wrong way. The guy's going to choke you. I feel like you're biased because that's what you did. Yeah. Well, I mean, that gives me experience. I don't know that. I mean, I've never seen like Elon move. You know what I mean? I don't know how well he moves. Yeah. Do you? How about Zuck? Well, yeah. I haven't actually watched him do that either. See him roll is going to be really, really weird. Didn't he like redo the match so he could win? Is that true? I feel like that. Yes. No, I brought that up. Yeah, there's an article like that. Yeah, I brought that up. No, he did. So like there was like. Because he argued with the ref or whatever? Yeah. And they made him, they redid it. So like he. Oh, that's bullshit. Yeah, he supposedly originally lost and then they, he had to recount the something. I don't remember what he complained about. Like that wasn't fair. And then they redid the match because he's Zuckerberg. You know what I'm saying? It's like the billionaire. He's not Zuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, hilarious. Anyway, I got, I got a, I got a great study on strength training that somebody sent me. So, um, you know, when, when, when we came out with the resistance training revolution, the idea was to, to come out before things started getting mainstream with strength training. Cause we saw the writing on the wall, studies were coming out confirming what we had known about strength training, which at the time, for most of, you know, I guess, or last maybe a few decades is kind of a stigmatized form of exercise. Nobody really considered it to be a longevity form of exercise or one that was for fat. It was just bodybuilders and that's pretty much, and maybe athletic performance and that's it. But we knew when you stacked the chips and did the math, if you had to compete forms of exercise, strength training is just superior for longevity, for health, for fat loss, et cetera, et cetera. And the, and the data is starting to come out to really support it. Well, another study comes out. You ready for this? They compared, this is my favorite study so far for strength training. They compared different forms of exercise for depression and strength training was superior. That's a cool study. It was superior to other forms of exercise for depression. The thought process was before, well, just moving will make you feel better and just getting healthier will make you feel better. So really the form of exercise doesn't matter. But although there's truth in that, there's also truth and they're not all equal. And in this study, strength training showed to be better. What art did you, do you recall what all the modalities were? Was there like yoga running? Let me pull it up. But I know it was cardio versus strength training. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Okay, now let's speculate. Like what's, what is your reason to, obviously we know it for muscle and metabolism and all the obvious things, right? Bone, like we know, we know that it's superior. That's why we've always touted it anyways. But for depression, that's interesting that, let's say a really good yoga class doesn't even, it doesn't compete with resistance training or a good leisurely run doesn't compete. So what is it? I got you. Okay, let's hear you. So I'll tell you my theory, but let me tell you what the study says. So first off, they looked at 58 studies. So this was a big analysis. It wasn't just one study. So they looked at a lot of studies. 58, 10 countries, almost 5,000 participants. Okay. So this is like legit. Yeah. They found that for depressed youth exercise, so just general exercise is significantly better than usual care for reducing anxiety alone. So compared to the typical treatments, any exercise is better than the typical treatments. Exercise is better for depression across the board for usual care. In depression specifically, resistance training outperformed aerobic exercise, mixed exercise, and mind body exercise. Mind body being like yoga, stuff like that. So resistance training against mind body, against cardio, superior for depression. Wow. Now, here's what I think. Yeah, let's hear your speculation. Here's what I think. I think, okay, health benefits are going to make you feel better no matter what. All of them will improve your health. I think inflammation in the brain. I think insulin sensitivity, because strength, building muscle is best for that. For sure. But I think it also has to do with the fact that when you do strength training, although all forms of exercise, you have kind of these objective, measurable progress. Strength training, you struggle, you challenge yourself, you get stronger, you add weight. You get stronger. It's so objective. It's so clear that I'm doing 50 pounds more now than before and it was hard and I have to push. I mean, just play devil's advocate though here. Like, I mean, you could do that with running. You know, the first time you could only run one mile and then the next time you went out there, you could get a mile and a half, and then your mile and a half time was down by 30 seconds. So there's ways to do that. There is, but let's say you take the average person. You like euphoric sort of rewards too. Yeah, you get that also with running, right? Let's say you take the, let's say you take, because this is done on youth, right? You say you take a youth and you say you take someone who does a mile in 13 minutes or just whatever, I can't run a mile, right? And you get them to go from 13 to seven minutes, okay? That's a huge improvement. Seven minute miles healthy for the average kid. How is that going to feel in their everyday life? Now take a kid who couldn't do a pull-up, couldn't do a push-up, couldn't do a squat. Now they're doing five pull-ups, they're doing 25 push-ups. So what you're saying is the real world confidence. Totally. The real world confidence. The strength carries over to everything. It carries over to a lot more. And you feel it. Whereas stamina you're not going to test quite often. Whereas strength, like I'm getting up, I'm standing, I'm moving over here, I'm bending over. My posture seems different. The other thing would be the hormone changes. We know strength training raises testosterone. Right. It balances hormones, other forms of exercise. It's kind of mixed, the insulin. So this is all speculation that I'm saying right now because they don't know why, but this study does show strength training is superior for depression. So if you're at least in this study or in this analysis, if you're a kid, if you're youth, right, so adolescent teen and you're depressed and you're looking at what form of exercise is going to help and you want to pick one because you're probably not going to do five or three, do you use strength training? That's the one that's going to give you the most pain for your buck. Yeah. Now my recommendation, if that was somebody who's specifically trying to get into strength training to combat depression, or anxiety, I would start with like a maps 15 type of protocol, right? I love that. Yeah. Because it's every day, it's a little bit very doable. Versus trying to do something more intense, more consistently, I think just building a habit or routine of, you know, lifting one or two exercises every day. And then building on that as you go, I think that would probably be if I was a doctor who was prescribing it to somebody for that reason, I think that's how I'd probably prescribe it. Here's the other part I even think of. You take a bunch of, I don't know, 15 year olds and you have them do this group does cardio, this group does yoga, this group does strength training for six months. Whose body is going to look significantly different at the end of it? I have another one for you. That's also going to contribute. I have another one for you. How about testosterone? Yeah, that's that. Testosterone is a feel good hormone confidence builder. And so if you're depressed, fat, lazy, not moving around so with that and your testosterone levels are low, and you can go for a run all day long, you can run like crazy and do yoga like crazy and you're not going to see the increase in testosterone like you will from squatting two or three days a week. So that there's probably a good reason why it does. The other thing too is that if you're depressed and anxious, one of the characteristics, not always right, but one of the characteristics, you might be in your head quite a bit and you're just thinking and mulling things over and spinning. You can run, you can walk, you can even do yoga and still stay in your head. But go lift weights properly while you maybe in between sets, but while you're doing your set, you ain't, you have to think of what you're doing. You can't think of, I feel like I can go on a run and just think about my problems. If I'm lifting, I got to, like I got to move the weight. I have to be in control. Due to the complexity of the skill. The skill, the weight. Like you're going to hurt yourself. That's a good point. That's what I find. Yeah, the repetitive movement. You can still be milling over a lot of these ideas and things that you're wrestling with. As you're running, sometimes people look at that as its own kind of form of therapy. Yes. But like to your point, like you can't even consider that when you're lifting weights because you have to be in the moment of actually lifting the weights and doing the movement. I'd love to see it compared to something like Jiu-Jitsu. Like it would be really interesting to see. Oh, I mean, Jiu-Jitsu would be great with what you just said because you have to be present with that too. That's right. You have to be all super present. It's a skill. It's a skill. You build strength, increase strength. You're also rolling with companions and other people. Oh, yeah. So there's a community aspect to it. Wow, that would be huge. That's right. So it would be really interesting to see. Yep, touch and working with other people. Yeah, it's a whole different stimulus. You're a 100% present. You cannot even, for you think lifting or squatting, you have to be present. I mean, you can't relax. You put to sleep a few times. That's right, right? So talk about even more present. And then you also- That's a great example. And then you also get the community aspect of rolling with other people. And so it'd be really interesting to see that compared. I bet that would be a really good- I bet it would crush on you. Yeah. I mean, Perfect World, you do that with some strength training. But I mean, in terms of like traditional forms of exercise, obviously strength training. I mean, I just love, I mean, I really, I hope that we see this in our future. It's really unfortunate because of how much big pharma controls the narrative because it would be amazing to see us reduce the amount of prescribed medication for things like anxiety and depression and more things like this. Like, hey, how about you go strength train for 15 minutes a day and practice a new form of sport or art or something like that. And the results would probably be- It's weird that it's like an alternative means, right? Instead of that being the standard and you don't get that standard, then you go to get prescription. Right, yeah. I foresee a future. Well, not foresee. I would love to see a future where these clinics where people get treated for things like depression, anxiety, include really well-trained trainers and coaches that are part of the whole protocol. Like you show up and this is a part of it, which would also include body work because I think that's also that would contribute significantly. Obviously talk therapy, working exercise, proper exercise, diet, and then you can have pharmaceuticals there as a backup. Yeah, I mean, if they don't, isn't this enough for people to realize that, big pharma doesn't really care about truly helping you like it's promoted. It's really about keeping you in the loop or in the cycle. They care about helping you with the tools that they have and the ways that they can make money. So it's not that they don't care about helping you, although I'm sure some of them don't. It's that here's what we have to help you with. So we're going to figure it out with this. Not necessarily what's best because the best thing to do would be to do it in these other ways. It's rather we have a drug for that and that's what we do. So here you go. Yeah. All right, so let's give Dr. Jolene Brighton a shout out. Love her. Oh, excited. She's coming back in studio. So amazing doctor. She's known for her book. I think it's Beyond the Pill, right, about the side effects and issues with birth control, how to come off and all that stuff. If you're a woman, she's a great follow. Hey, check this out. If you want to know if your hormones are in the right places, if testosterone is optimized, if you have good balance of estrogen and progesterone, you can get blood tested at mphormones.com. They can prescribe testosterone. They can also work with peptides to help your body burn more body fat, optimize your longevity, your health. By the way, they also carry the GLP1 agonist peptides like semi-glutide, brand name known as ozempic and others. So if you're looking into peptides, go to mphormones.com. There's doctors there. They work with prescriptions. This is not some shady gray market research lab. This is legit stuff from real pharmacies. Again, go check them out. Go to mphormones.com. All right, here comes the rest of the show. First caller is Narm from California. Narm, what's happening? How can we help you? What's going on, guys? I just want to thank you guys for everything you've done. I found you guys very late in life. Very unfortunate for me. People have always been saying during the pandemic, oh, listen to this podcast, this podcast. Nothing resonated until I found you guys. I actually found you guys from a YouTube. And I was like, who are these thick-necked dudes just talking about things I want to talk about? So I unfortunately found you guys in February. I immediately bought Maps Aesthetic and Maps Anabolic Pro because I'm kind of a sucker for a deal. But since I'm a sucker, I didn't start either of them. So my main problem is I'm a chronic overtrainer. I've kind of lost myself in this whole fitness journey. And a lot of things you guys talk about really resonate. Like for example, I think Adam, one time you were talking about the misconception that we have to destroy a body part, eat and then recover and do it over again. Kind of lived for the pump. And with age, I'm realizing that's not the best way to maintain gains. I've heard you guys talk about what's optimal versus what someone can tolerate. And finding a balance between the intensity, frequency and volume. Currently, I'm doing an eight by eight program. I'm not sure if any of you all have ever done that one, but it's pretty high volume. And just like anything that is novel, the first few weeks, you feel it, you get sore, you love it. But the problem with me is I'll have a great workout. And the next day, I'm eager to get back into the gym, but I probably should be taking the day off. So I go into the gym. I'm like, oh, I can't really feel the pump. I call it a wash and then I end up doing cardio. And like I deplete myself. So it's like difficult for me to have an active rest day. So my two, I have basically two questions. Do you guys have any guidance on recognizing signs of overtraining and striking the right balance between pushing myself and getting recovery? And what's your perspective on eight by eight training and how it compares to any of your programs? When I was trying to figure out which program is probably best rather than just buying whatever the deal is for the month, I was looking at anabolic symmetry or even bands because I have some right and left imbalances. But I just wanted to hear your take. Yeah, Norm, the best... First off, let me ask you a few questions because I'll help me answer. How long have you been training consistently for? Man, like 16 years, since I was 17. Okay. And how many days a week are you in the gym? Five? Six? Five. But honestly, like two of them are like... I would say four of them are solid, but one of them is just like me going in and then I'm ending up doing a lot of cardio because I'm trying to burn calories. All right. Diet-wise, are you hitting protein targets? And then also, how is your sleep? Protein targets, yes. Sleep is anywhere between six to eight hours. I'm averaging seven, so I would say it's pretty solid. Okay. All right. So this is going to be pretty easy. What's the goal? You want to build muscle? Is that the goal? Build muscle and be aesthetically... be more aesthetic. Okay. All right. So this is going to be... The answer is going to be easy that I'm going to recommend to you. The hard part is going to be for you to start to identify what it feels like to not over-train. So I could give you the signs of over-training, but what's going to end up happening is you're going to keep going to over-training. You're going to notice the signs trying to back off, then you're going to over-train back off. So what you need to do initially is follow a well-written program. I'm going to give you Maps and a Bollock. That's the perfect program for you. Follow that and then get used to what it feels like to not over-train. Okay. So rather than trying to pay attention to the signs of over-training, try to get used to what it feels like to not over-train. That's going to give you a nice starting point. Okay. Maps and a Bollock is going to be ideal for someone like you. Do the three-day a week version. You're the gym three days a week. And if you're getting stronger consistently, you're doing fine. And that's probably what's going to happen. What's probably going to happen is you're going to follow Maps and a Bollock and you're going to get stronger on a very consistent basis. Now, after that, then you can follow one of our other programs, but use how you felt during Maps and a Bollock as your guide. Anything above and beyond that means you're doing too much, because there's a lot of room between doing too much and over-training. In other words, there's the perfect amount that's going to give you the best results. More than that, you get worse results, but you're not necessarily over-training. You're just doing more than you need, and you're taking away your body's ability to adapt, but you're still not over-training. But if you keep pushing that, eventually you get to over-training. We don't want to just avoid over-training. We want to stay in that sweet spot. And the best way to do that is to train in a particular way that is likely to put you in that sweet spot and get used to that feeling. So I would say follow Maps and a Bollock. That's probably the perfect program for someone like you. It is a really easy answer. It's challenging mentally for most people that have to go through this training, as all of us have experienced this ourselves. So there was a period of time where I finally realized, like, oh, wow, I'm not only over-training, but I'm nowhere near what optimal is for me. And then when you hit that sweet spot for the first time, it feels like you should be doing more. And that's the mental challenge, because if you are going to follow Maps and a Bollock, like we're telling you to, you're going to be in weeks two and three going like, fuck, I don't know. It's just, I'm not seeing enough yet. Or I think- Doesn't feel like enough. Yeah, I thought I could do so much more. And then you're going to, oh, I'll just do a little bit of this. So the goal right here, or if you were a client of mine, my goal for you would be, let's focus on building muscle, following this program to a T, and then after that, I'm going to get you shredded. So, and that's only going to make the getting shredded part easier. If you trust the process, you trust me as a coach, and I say, listen, eat at a maintenance or in a surplus, not a crazy surplus, maintenance or surplus on most days, and follow the program to a T. When we get out of there, you're going to be stronger, you're going to have built significant muscle, and then I'm going to get you shredded. So you will have a faster metabolism, so then we go to get lean on the next program, which you are on the right track. I think symmetry would be a great choice for program two to follow up. Yeah, and I mean, recovery is your most priority right now. So like even, you've established the fact that you're disciplined enough to go to the gym multiple times throughout the week. So like that five day a week schedule, you can maintain with this program. However, you need to adjust it quite substantially. So there is trigger sessions that you can do in the gym, this is with rubber bands or body weight. The thing you have to really like make sure you manage is your intensity with that, like keeping it real low to moderate, if any. And it's really just to like get that kind of pump to get blood flow. So that way you're able to kind of recover and heal going into your next sort of foundational day where that's where you're doing all the work. Okay, so I'm gonna give you some specifics, okay? Okay. So here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna take a week off, no lifting whatsoever. I don't care if you walk, hike, whatever that's fine, but just take a complete week off. Don't change your diet, still hit your protein targets. Then when you go back to the gym, follow maps anabolic as it's laid out. Justin brought up the trigger sessions. Those are done on off day. So three days a week you're lifting, three days a week full body. On the days in between you do what are called trigger sessions. You could do two or three of them in a day. Don't overdo those. It's literally you're just getting a little pump. Use, use bands. Little pump. Just get a little pump. You're not trying to work out. You're just, you're just getting blood flow to target areas. That's it. That's, that's on the off days. And then that's it. Follow that. And you're gonna get strong. I would guess how tall are you? How much do you weigh? 190. So I'm on the heavier side. How tall are you? 5'8". 5'8", okay. I'm gonna say your body weight might not change, but you're probably gonna gain a good three, four pounds of lean body mass and lose three, four pounds of body fat. That's a, that's a realistic, I would say expectation for something like this. But you got to do exactly what I said. Take a week off first. Cause you're probably already past where you need to go. And don't fret getting shredded right now. Like right now the goal should be get strong, build your metabolism. So right now I want to get you in a place. Sleep, get recovery. Yeah. Right now I want to get you in a place where you are stronger than you've ever been. You are eating more than you've ever ate before. And we're, we're setting you up to get shredded after that. Got it. Yeah. Thank you. I actually was thinking about taking one full week off because when I involuntary have to take a week off, I always come back more developed, stronger. That's always the sign. Yeah, you're overtrained, man. You're overtrained. Yeah. Even when like two days, I like my work is busy and I have to skip the gym two days. When I come back, my workout's actually amazing. And then, you know, I get like, Oh, well maybe I'll add this more thing and I'll work out extra hard the next day. And then I overtrain again. So just remember what we say. When you, when you've been training like this for a really long time, like you have, and then we tell you to go down to three days a week, the challenge is going to be the mental challenge. Is you thinking you should do more and like that more is going to get, and more is not going to get your results. You got to follow it to a tee. Trust, just trust us. Yeah. Got it. And I guess, have any of you all done the 8x8 training or heard of it? Yeah. I mean, I'm going to assume that's 8 sets. Yeah. That's like 8 sets of the reps. How many exercises of workout is that? Three? And are these all compound lifts? No, not compound. It's usually like, if you're doing chest and biceps on a day, you'll do three chest and like two biceps. I first learned about it, like off Steve Cook, he used to do a YouTube on it. He would do it once in a while. It's just really short breaks, like 30 second breaks. Yeah. So, you know, it's, listen, there's some, I think, some factors in that that might have some value, but programming is much more than that. I mean, programming is actually quite complex. And so, like we said, follow MAPS Anabolic as it's laid out. Don't worry about what you've been, hasn't been working, right? So stop doing it. Take a week off, start MAPS Anabolic. And you'll get stronger by week two. Okay. So by week two, you're going to feel stronger. And that's when you'll know. Don't add more. Don't add more. You're going to want to add more. Don't add more. Follow it as it's laid out. Don't lift to failure. You're going to stop every set about two reps before you think you're going to fail. That's the intensity. And then watch what happens. You're not going to get very sore, but you're going to get stronger and you're going to build muscle. Okay. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. You got it, man. We'll send that over to you. Thank you. Yeah. This, the first time I did this was, I don't know, I want to say late twenties. I had just read a dinosaur training and I was reading old time, you know, like old time training techniques and how lifters lifted a, you know, at the turn of the century. And I'd never tried really training that way. I'd never done it because it was always sold as like, this is what beginners do and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, and I remember at this point, I was already in my late twenties, like, what do I have to lose? I'm just going to give it a shot, see what happens. And I remember getting stronger by the end of the week. Like by the end of the week, I was lifting more weight and I said, Oh, there's something to this. And then that was the beginning of the, the transformation, how I programmed workouts and what I understood about. Yeah, it was, it was mid twenties for me. And it was like the first time that I put like 10, 15 pounds on in the summer. It was fucking insane. That's like, that's how much I was over training. Double days basketball, doing all this stuff. And I literally just scaled way back. And again, the hardest thing for someone like this is the mental side. It's not physically, it's easier. I mean, physically you're doing way less volume, way less intensity. So in your head, you go like, this can't be right because everything else in my life, the more I do, the more I put in, the more I get out. That doesn't work that way when it comes to training and nutrition. You just got to understand that finding the right balance is what's optimal. Next caller is Calvin from Portland. Calvin, what's happening? How can we help you? How's it going guys? I just want to say thank you. I started listening to you guys around like COVID time. And I started chiropractic in school during that time. You guys have like definitely helped me change kind of like my, like being like fitness, health and how I want to communicate that to my patients. So just want to say thank you for that. Awesome. Yeah. So I've been lifting for about three, four years consistently. And since listening to you guys, I've always wanted to be able to hit a full squad, like full depth all the way down. I can hit 90 right now and I stop. And I'd love to be part of like the squat and scroll club. I know that was a big thing a while back. So I'd love to be part of that. And so I really want to get there. But I'm having some trouble. I think it's my ankle mobility. You know, I've done hitting mobility religiously for the last year. I haven't really saw much progress in that. So I love some advice on kind of like your guys's, you know, expertise and like how maybe I can help with my ankles and also just also keep my chest up during a squat as well. Have you tried squatting down with your heels elevated to see if that makes it go down lower? Yeah, that does make me go down lower. Okay. Hit your ankles in. Yeah, here's the biggest key with mobility drills that I think, one, it takes a long time to make like a significant change in like range of motion. It's this is not like a do it for a few weeks and I noticed this huge difference. It's a consistent working at it, working at it. And you're better off with more frequency than a shorter bout of like higher or longer intensity mobility drill. Meaning like some people like, oh, I'm going to dedicate my off days, you know, of training two or three days a week to my mobility days. Well, you'd be way better off knowing that, okay, combat stretch is the major, like your ankle mobility is the major limiting factor in your squat. So you try and actually do the combat stretch like five times a day every day, just for like two or three minutes. Like you don't, it doesn't need to be this big ordeal. It's like, you got a minute right now, get down on the ground real quick, do combat stretch on each side. And like doing it more often throughout the day, every day, just for a few minutes, is going to get you, get you there faster than like, like an intense mobility hour session of all mobility work, you know, every other day or every few days. How often do you get to work out like barefoot? Honestly, I haven't, I've gone like without shoes now squatting. So that's definitely helped. I feel like stability wise for my foot. I just feel like also like I just really have tight calves as well. So that probably contributes a little bit, maybe to it as well. Yeah, you just got to practice the mobility. Yeah, just practice. And there's a lot of, I mean, do you have Prime Pro? Cause that's where we have all of our options for ankle mobility drills. You know, there's some good ones. I don't have that. Okay, we got to get you, we got to get you that for sure. Cause then you're going to have some more options. Obviously, you know, Adam brought up combat stretch. That one kind of like covers the bases, but to, you know, address anything else, mobility wise with the ankles. Like we have like toe squats in there. We have ones where we're actually like pressing and holding in like a lacrosse ball in between as you're coming down to, you know, really, really try to get some stability there around the ankles and get it to function properly. So there's go through that and then go through and practice them as much as you can. By the way, we wrote that with what I, in my opinion, one of the best chiropractors I've ever met in my life. So that, yeah, I know. So Dr. Brink is in there with us. And I think he's one of the most brilliant chiropractors that any of us have ever met. And so you'll get a chance to kind of see him. He's the one who demos and takes all of us through. Go through that, go through piano toes, go through all of that stuff, man. It's really about strengthening your feet and supporting around the ankle. Yeah. And as you practice this, and Adam hit the nail on the head, like do it often, practice it throughout the day, every single day. As you get better, go lighter with your squats. What you don't want to do is keep the same weight with the new range of motion because it's going to be, you're asking for trouble. So when you start to challenge your range of motion, I would cut the weight in half and slow down and pause at the bottom, pause at the part where you're like, okay, as far as I can go, hold it down there, build strength in that bottom position. That'll help you out. But it's going to take a little while. It's going to take a little while. Yeah. Well, awesome. Appreciate you guys' help. No problem. And then there was a second part to your question. Is that it? I just was curious too, I think I added this into my email as well, but just wanted to know, like I know you guys had Steve Cook on the show a couple of weeks ago. He kind of talked about how he was kind of going into chiropractic before he went on the journey that he did. So I was just curious about, like kind of your guys' like chiropractic experience, if you guys have any, and like kind of what that like kind of encompasses as far as like whole health and functional medicine. I think there's a huge opportunity to be a good chiropractor. I think there's a lot of shitty ones. Just like there's a lot of shitty trainers and coaches and why I still think there's lots of opportunity in the R space. There's a lot of opportunity in the chiropractic space. A lot of them are in the business of adjusting and having you come back forever and for, and that's why we fell in love with Dr. Brink was he was actually, for me, my first experience with a positive experience in the chiropractor. And I've worked with actually a lot of chiropractors my entire career as a trainer. And I got the same type of experience with every other chiropractor until I met him, who was focused more on the quality of movement than he was with popping me and adjusting me and then sending me on my way to just come back and see him again next week. And then he'd leave you with like homework and things for you to do at home, which I think is like super valuable and you gain a lot of trust from your patients that way. And also like eliminating the whole like 50 minute windows of like being able to kind of get people in like a factory. So if you're in at all different in your approach with chiropractor, I think you'll stand out like crazy. Yeah, at the end of the day, Calvin, this is the difference between the chiropractors that we've had great experiences with and those that we've had bad ones with. The good ones alleviate pain, but then they look to solve the root cause of the dysfunction. Right. So good chiropractors are also movement specialists. Bad chiropractors, they just know how to adjust. They're not movement specialists. They're not looking at improving things like connection, mobility and strength. It's all about, oh, here this makes the pain go away. And then they'll say things like stop squatting, stop deadlifting, don't overhead press anymore, whatever. A good chiropractor will alleviate the pain, but then address why your body's moving in a way that causes that to happen in the first place. They're looking to solve the root cause. And it's night and day difference between those two that I just mentioned. So I would say for you, after you're done with your chiropractor school or if you've already finished it, I would look at courses on movement, correctional exercise. That's where you're going to get, that's where you're going to separate yourself from your peers. Things like kin stretch. Kin stretch and yeah, correctional exercise, period end of story. Stuff that physical therapists do will help you a lot. Yeah, I got a pretty evident space school too. So we, we preach like rehab and definitely find the root of the problem and like kind of correcting it. So awesome. That's great. Good deal, man. All right. We'll send you maps, prime pro. You're going to love it, especially with the field that you're in. Sweet. Appreciate it. Thanks guys. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. Yeah. So Jordan Shallow explained it best on how adjustments work. So essentially, because you always wanted to like, how does an adjustment, because I could have my back had hurt. I could go get cracked and all of a sudden the pain is almost completely gone. Like what did they do? So the subluxation sort of a method. Yeah. So, I mean just adjustments, right? And so basically what it is, is you have all these, you have joints and you have small muscles and connective tissue and things that hold those joints in place. And you're not, you're not able to really stretch and remove them. It's not like a big joint where I can stretch my hamstring. It's different. So what they do with these adjustments is they cause movement in those areas, release, because the CNS, for whatever reason, is causing those areas to be tight because it thinks it needs to protect itself. So then the CNS relaxes, oh wow, the pain is gone, but then you have to take it a step further. Why is that happening? Why does my CNS think it needs to create that situation to produce, to provide stability? And it's because there's some kind of an imbalance or some kind of a movement issue. There's some kind of weakness or tightness and you need to address that root cause, but the adjustments themselves are not bad. They're great at alleviating pain, getting you to move again, but then you got to take it a step further. Now that we can move again, all right, let's fix the problems. This doesn't happen again. You know, something I didn't tell him that I think there's value in too, is while you're addressing the ankle mobility is allowing him to elevate the heels and still squat really deep with lighter weight. So I think there's a lot of value just for your hips and getting comfortable with moving weight with that kind of depth and then continuing to work on the ankle mobility. The only thing you just need to be cautious of is not allowing that to become this like crutch that it's like, oh, I'll just squat with squat shoes forever, but I did do that while I was working on my ankle mobility. I was continuing to squat and squat with depth. I would just use my squat shoes. And then as I slowly progressed and got to a point where I could do it barefoot like that, I think there's some value in doing that too. Next caller is Max from Austria. Max, what's happening? How can we help you? Hi guys. Thank you for taking my call. First, I want to say thank you for all the great content and advice you guys are giving. It helped me a lot to understand fitness topics. I highly appreciate it. So I'm 23 years old and been going to the gym for three years now and calorie tracking moved me into a dangerous spot where I was at around 6% body fat. And this led to several health issues like low energy sleeping problems. And for the past two months, I've been bulking again currently at 3000 calories. But I'm sort of noticing that I'm too food focused again through tracking. I'm currently at around 150 pounds. And I try to stick to 0.9 to 1.2 gram per pound of protein, 0.4 to 0.6 gram per pound of fat and the rest carbs. And this often leads me to making sort of a number game out of it where I constantly want to optimize everything to always hit my macros and also stay in these ratios. And I'm afraid to not drag my food because I have to gain weight to be healthy again. And I just want the security that I'm eating enough and not dropping weight again. So my question is if you guys could give me an advice how to track calories without over complicating everything, also not stressing mentally about it, and get rid of my nutrition rules that I set myself and sort of use tracking as a tool that helps me to be healthy again. Yeah, so the way to do this, Max, is to back up and to give yourself much looser, less specific guidelines. I like this protein. Yeah, you're getting into a place where a lot of fitness fanatics get into where we start to, I mean, we make something healthy unhealthy, right? You can move towards orthorexic type behaviors where everything has to be perfect. And the way to move out of that is to literally take your focus off of it. Okay, you literally have to take your focus off of it. Now there's a complication here in that you need to gain weight. You've probably been ordered to gain weight, is that correct? Yes, sort of, because I was at a really low body fat percentage and I have to gain weight now. Okay, so here's one way you could do this that you can kind of give yourself looser guidelines and maybe not get caught up in some of the specifics. How many times a day are you eating right now? Around four to five times, depending if I'm at the gym or not. Okay, I would keep the meal frequency the same and then here's your new rules, okay? When you eat, make sure there's a protein, make sure there's a vegetable, make sure there's some kind of a starch and that's it. Eat until you're satisfied and that's it. Don't count anything. Don't count protein, don't count fat, don't count carbs, don't count calories. Eat until you're satisfied. What does that mean? That means you feel good, not stuffed, like you can't breathe, but you feel good, like, okay, I'm really, really, I feel really good. And just follow that, just keep that as your guideline and try not to, now here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna eyeball things and kind of say to yourself, oh, that looks like about 40 grams of protein. That's fine, but don't get caught up in it. I also wouldn't weigh myself on the scale or pay attention to anything like that, except for maybe the weight that you move in the gym. If you're getting stronger, you're on the right track. That's where I put most of my focus, actually, is I shift the kind of neurotic behaviors around nutrition over towards paying attention and tracking your lifting, like paying attention to sets and reps and the weight and progressing and getting stronger through your workout and really just staying fed, staying fed so you feel satisfied calorie-wise for fueling your workouts. That's like, now you're eating not for your body composition or for how you look, you're eating to perform better in the gym. And so me gauging my success of how I'm going right now is based off of me getting stronger in the gym. And if I feel like I'm not, oh, maybe I need to feed myself more and then feeding yourself more to fuel the workout. So switch your focus of aesthetics and body fat percentage and weight and stuff and focus it more on performance in the gym and what foods make you feel good when you work out. Like if I eat meal one and two before I lift, like, oh, wow, I noticed I got a great workout. Okay, you learned something. Or, oh, wow, I noticed I was tired of this workout. Maybe I needed to add a little bit more carbohydrates in there. So start thinking about your food as fuel to your workout and focus more like that. Yeah, also, I've noticed that I have a low appetite, especially when I'm stressed out. And therefore, I sometimes forget to eat or forget to eat enough. And that's why I started tracking again to make sure I'm eating enough because I also have a very active lifestyle, burn a lot of calories, go. I'm a lot outside, do other sports. And therefore, I'm also burning a lot of calories. So like I said, I would keep the meal frequency. So that's something that you could track. Oh, I got to make sure I eat at these times. That's something that I would definitely maintain. Here's another thing, too. 6% body fat, you need to gain weight. You got low appetite. Here's where I would tell somebody to throw in the occasional, like I mean literally like maybe three or four days a week, hyper palatable meal, something you really enjoy eating. You like a burger and french fries, you like some pizza, that's okay to have maybe four or five days a week, especially for someone like yourself who you tend to want to eat less. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But I would maintain the meal frequency. That's how you're going to keep yourself from under eating, is if you track just I got to eat four times a day or whatever that meal frequency is that you're currently hitting, just maintain that and then I think you'll be okay. What's the meal that you would tend to skip the most, like is breakfast one that you're consistent with? No, I'm very consistent with breakfast. I'm currently not skipping any meals. So I really hit all my meals, even though I'm maybe not hungry, but then I have to eat it again to get the calories in. Tell me about your activities that you're doing outside of the gym. Like what's your lifting routine? How many days a week are you lifting? And then what are all what are these activities that you're saying you're doing a lot of? Four days a week of lifting, then cycling, I also like running. I'm getting like 10,000 steps minimum each day and also like going on hikes when it's sunny weather. You're doing too much. Yeah, are you telling yourself you love doing all these things because of the results it gives you as far as leaning out and getting shredded? Or do you just really love just doing all that stuff all the time? No, I'm a very active person and I just love doing sports and actually now I want to bulk again. I don't want to be shredded again. I want to bulk again. Well, then you got to cut back on all the cardio activity and your lifting should be if you're going to do that much activity outside of the gym, then your gym should only be lifting one or two days a week. You'll get better results, by the way, this way. Yeah, if you bring your lifting down to two days a week, you're going to build muscle and strength. So in other words, Max, if you like the outdoor stuff, if that's what you really are passionate about, then I'd reduce the strength training. If you like the strength training, then I would reduce the outdoor stuff. But it sounds to me like it sounds to me like you like doing the outdoor stuff. No, I'm actually more into the strength training stuff. So then cut out the cycling, bro. Yeah, cut out the cycling. Especially if the goal right now is to build muscle and to gain weight. Yeah, it's working against you. I would cut out the running and the cycling. You can do hiking and stuff like that, but no running, no cycling. Maybe once a week and that's about it. We're going to send maps and a ball to you. You should be following a program like that also. Do maps and a ball like cycle run maybe once a week, Max, and keep tracking or not tracking. Keep tracking the meal frequency, be looser on your guidelines, and you're going to start gaining weight. You'll start gaining muscle this way. Thank you so much, guys. You got it, man. All right, Max. Thanks for calling in. Okay. Bye, guys. He was very excited with the advice again. I couldn't see his expression. I was like hoping to, but... I'm so glad you asked that, Adam. Yeah, way too much. I had a fight when he's like, yeah, I love to do all this stuff, and I'm like, hmm. Yeah, I know. Seems like someone's obsessing also about a lot of activity and movement all the time. Never less than 10,000 steps. I cycle, I run. Let me ask you guys a question. Let me ask you guys a question of all the people you've ever met and worked with. What percentage of them genuinely, genuinely enjoyed being that active all the time? Less than 1%, bro. That's why... There's definitely people like that, but it's not... They tell themselves that. That's why I asked. I mean, it takes a lot of self-awareness. To admit this part, because they... If you've... I mean, we're always closing ourselves, right? Yeah. On our own beliefs, you know? And so you tell yourself like, I love to run. Yeah, but do you really go into it? It's like this very therapeutic thing? Or is it like this love-hate punishment relationship? The therapy of it, it's interesting, because I would say 90% are literally running from something. Right, literally. Yeah, I think that's why our messaging comes out. That way, sometimes we're so passionate about that. This is because a very small percentage. And it doesn't mean that there is a percentage of people that have a very healthy relationship with it. And it's something they love to do. And I would never take that out of their life. Here's a telltale way of knowing. Okay. When you meet somebody that genuinely loves to go out and be that active, they try to do the least amount of workouts in the gym just to support them. You don't see them lifting five days a week and doing all this other stuff. No, you know, as a good example of this, my brother-in-law. He actually hates to work out in the gym. Yeah. And even that is like twisting his arm to get him to just, I'm always like, dude, just lift once. And he's an outdoor guy. That's what I mean. That's when you know. Like the guy is, he is never inside his house. He doesn't watch any television. He's just all about the outdoors. Yeah, I have tendencies with that for sure too. Yeah, so I mean, yeah, you can tell. I mean, but quickly he was like, I like gym, the gym more. So it's like, oh man, then you don't like the running and cycling as much as you think you do then. Look, if you like Mind Pump and you want great fitness information, if you notice that the fitness industry puts out a lot of crap, check this out. Go to AskMindPump.com. Ask it any fitness or health question. It's an AI model that will answer your question based on our episodes. Okay, so it's coming from us. So you know it's true. AskMindPump.com. You can also find all of us on social media. Justin is at Mind Pump, Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano. Adam is at Mind Pump, Adam.