 Let me welcome everybody. Let me welcome you to the Future Trends Forum. My name is Brian Alexander I'm the forum's creator host and your chief cat herder for the next hour I'm delighted to see so many of you here today We have a fantastic guest on a vital topic, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation I'm absolutely delighted to bring Deborah keg friends in here She's associate vice president and dean of online continuing education at the University of Utah She is also Someone who won a fantastic award from edgy cause last year the 2020 diversity equity and inclusion leadership award Which is really well married. That's a real focus on in this topic today She also has a whole bunch of fans as you can see from this representative tweet where Danielle says Deborah keg friends and is who I want to be when I grow up. Well, who is this Deborah keg friends? Why do we all want to be here? Let's find out by bringing her on stage and talking with her Greetings Brian the How's my how's my audio your audio and video are like Wonderful, I feel bad for Danielle saying that she wants to be with me when she grows up because I'm not yet grown up I'm I'm still a work in progress and So just as long as we get that right out out there right at the beginning Well, that's okay. So noted no problem with over an ego check with I'm so glad you could make it and thank you what you could be here The this this topic is is one that is a great urgency to Education in general to the forum in particular To introduce you besides introducing your achievements fan base as I just did Let me just ask you for the rest of 2021 What do you can be working on the most? What are the big issues that are uppermost in your mind? And what are some projects that you're gonna be spending most of your time on? There are so many and and this is why my staff do get a little They give me feedback to say, okay, you don't have to do everything you don't have to boil the ocean So I'll try to give you different buckets of what we're Working on so as you know, I'm fairly new to the University of Utah We're still bringing together two very disparate units online and continuing education and turning it using IT service management principles to really provide the Framework for how we provide services and programs both to the campus and then to the the broader community We have been as most universities and colleges have Been asked to expand the number and the experimentation in modalities and in credential types So that and that's that's huge, you know, that's that I say those few words But it's really the work of a lifetime and then the third piece of it is really what's very close to my heart And it's the the access piece so the reason we're doing all of this and especially the reason why we're doing it in higher education and in public higher Education is really to reach those students that we haven't been able to reach before or haven't been as successful As reaching before whether or not they're degree-seeking students or whether they're community members who need different skills To do a better job in the changing workplace. So those would be those would be the three buckets You know, who are we as an organization providing services? How are we expanding and experimenting with modalities and credentials? And how does diversity equity and inclusion kind of provide that foundation and the North Star for all that we're doing I can see how all three of those overlap too. Yeah, well, thank you. I I think your staff have it right This is an awful lot to accomplish Friends I have all the kinds of questions for a guest but the purpose of the forum is for you to share your questions and comments I'm going to fire off a couple of quick ones But please reach down to the bottom Strip on that screen and then either press the question mark button to type in your question or comment Or press the raised hand button if you'd like to join us up here on stage I promise you we're very very polite and happy to welcome you on stage One question I'd like to ask before we get really seriously rolling is How did you get started on dei issues? What was the what was the impetus that sent you down that path? So it's interesting when I was just out of college. I thought that was my or like as an undergraduate I thought that was my awakening about interest in issues of of diversity and um, and then I had a flashback to being nine years old And standing on the sidelines of a field at gym Maybe we were 10 and I've I've I've tried to confirm this with my classmates from that time And we um, the girls were not allowed To participate in gym because The the theme of that week happened to be football and girls were not allowed to play football So we stood on the sidelines and yelled at and I'll name him mr. Kerry We we chanted male chauvinist pig over and over and over again So if we think about that awakening moment, it was probably that way back in elementary school When I realized that there were some things I was not allowed to do because I was a girl And so I think I got into dei issues the same way a lot of people do where where you come from a very personal place And then you gain empathy for other groups of people who have Likewise been marginalized or excluded from things they want to do so for instance Shop and that that caused me to be a very Very very bad student in homec because I did not want to be there. I knew how to so thank you You won't let me work with the drill press. So I'm gonna misbehave So it's um, so it just set up this like a whole dynamic, but that's how I got into it I got in it through through women's issues and because I have had such kind and generous um other people in my life who represent different races Um sexualities gender identities They've been able to help me Expand my empathy and expand my work so that I can say by gum. It's it's not just women's issues There's intersectionality. We need to work across a whole spectrum. So I have revealed now more to this group of 106 people then then anybody should know and um So that's I don't know if that answered your your question and mr. Carey. Sorry, but You could have broken the rules for us Where where was that? What state was that new jersey? South Jersey. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah I wasn't too far from you. I was in uh, new york in that time. Yeah Yep, and I remember the rules about shop Um, oh gosh, don't get me started to this day to this day, but I'll let it go. I'm letting it go in the past Well, that's great. It's a great personal story and and I really love the way that you identify that within yourself is a way to build empathy Uh, we're discriminated against again through other other venues and other axes. Um, we have uh, Some questions starting to come in already and I'd like to begin by uh, let's say bringing up one of them one of the questions now from David hul who is always a wonderful person here in the program And david asked what are some of the challenges that your work in dei is facing within the state of utah um, so utah is often seen as a monolith and and by the way, i'm not yet in utah. Thank you pandemic. I'm still in colorado planning on moving out once vaccines Once there's a public health imperative for us to be actually back on campus But um, so everything i've learned is from a distance and I just wanted to put that caveat out there so, um, utah is seen as as a monolithic culture um And it's not as monolithic as I perceived it from the outside So there are huge swaths to the population that are deeply committed to equity and um at the university of utah. I have I've not seen The support for equity diversion diversity and inclusion Right up through the highest levels of the organization with consistent Messaging down and out through the entire organization That said, there are still some some issues in the monolithic culture of the religion. There is there are just The lgbtq community though very well supported in utah There are some There are some perspectives that does not They are discriminated against so that's that's that's an issue in the circles that I run in It's not the case So at the university, it's not the case and again in huge swaths of the state It's not the case and maybe it's just more exposed there than in other parts of the country where it probably exists everywhere But it's just not as pronounced um I think that That utah is actually doing it very well So the other the flip side of the the monolithic reputation Is that there is deep empathy toward people and a deep desire to help people And boy, if you can tap into that The sky's the limit So i'm at david. I appreciate that question and so for me My biggest challenge in my position right now Is that I want to make sure that my staff are aligned to campus and national practices So we have so much activity on campus. It's it's non-stop. So we're writing a grant To provide a better racial equity in a community that's very diverse in terms of race immigration sexuality religion How do we how do we allow the the neighborhoods to really come up with solutions to economic and and racial inequities? And how do we how can we support that work? We have lots of So hr Is just all over the how do you recruit? How do you retain? How do you advance a diverse workforce? How are you inclusive? so So I feel incredibly privileged to be at utah. Are there are there issues here and there? Absolutely But in general there is such support for Except it's called edi there and I just can't get it straight At the campus and throughout the higher education community that it's just um, I feel very lucky that I can pursue What's close to my heart as part of my job? David, I don't know if that answered your question or not. It was a little bit rambly Uh, I thought it was a great a great question and a great answer. Thank you. Thank you, david Uh, Deborah if you're if you're new to the forum by the way, that's a great example of a q&a and how we handle it So you can always after those Bottom of the screen and for those of you who are just coming in hello to folks like sushpa. Hello, richard Hello, uh foreign guest in the program before michael cato. Hello. Hello gale. Hello lisa and julie. It's so many Uh, we have more questions coming in I want to make sure that everyone gets a chance to ask so but next one is from racial nemer at the university Who asks what is the balance for you between meeting faculty members? ecological needs with advocating against their use of technology that have implicit biases e.g. proctoring software Oh, rachel rachel rachel you have looked into my inbox, haven't you? That's uh, that's fantastic. Um, so this is uh, this this is very interesting. Um And it's it's a problematic area because as a service organization What what were What we do is we provide tools to faculty to meet their pedagogical needs And as the tech service unit were slightly distanced from the practice service unit So the center for teaching and learning Excellence or for learning excellence. So we try not to get into that practice And yet when questions come up about implicit biases in the proctoring software about Um, not just in the ai but in the their existence. Um, in general, it does come to us. So it's been um, it's been interesting and the What I the the message that I sent out yesterday. I had two pop in at the same time One came from the surveillance committee reminding me that a certain university is being sued for its use of proctoring software And another came from the students who said, how can we talk to faculty about assessment? And bingo, that was the one so then I wrote back to the surveillance committee and we're going to be meeting with the students to say What let's let's talk about assessments broadly and let's talk about messages And messaging so that you can have that conversation with your with your faculty Because it's going to be the faculties of faculty communications and the student of faculty communications That can help influence a broader discussion about what does it mean to assess learning? And how can we do it in a way that's that's equitable? And then for the surveillance committee also through in a fuqo reference just to make them go read something always Yes, yes, and um, rachel, I don't know if that that helped answer your question I mean that's it's it's it's difficult Because some faculty truly believe that the only way they can assess is In a proctored exam situation And when we're on campus, it's not a problem if they want to have a proctored exam situation We just run them through the exam center and students come in But when they're remote That that it It it introduces a wrinkle So before if they were remote They could either go to a local place where they could be proctored in person They could come to campus or they could they could opt into a proctoring software situation but now They're they have no choice they feel that they have no choice But to engage with this proctoring software. We haven't really had a lot of We we haven't had that many issues with it I mean so our our ticket The number of tickets is very very low But it has engendered a wonderful conversation about what does it mean to assess learning on campus that I think is well overdue Oh, it's good. Good. Good. Great question then again. Thank you for for great We we have a couple of questions along a similar topic and I want to bring them together if I can First this is from Kate Montgomery at SMU And Kate covered in the forced embracing of online modalities over the past year and illuminated vast inequities within What types of systematic changes do you expect to see moving forward? Kate that's a great That's a great observation I mean, I think one of the things that cova did was it and I don't know how many times we've heard laid bare Over the last year, but it laid bare the inequities in access to technology and Broadband and so I think that's the first big one. I think many universities the university of utah included Really went out of their way to provide laptops and mobile hotspots for those students who didn't have it And so I I don't see that going away. I actually see that increasing I also see that we're we're going to move as As quickly as we can to really have mobile friendly Learning opportunities and service opportunities. So I think those are two things actually providing the technology and the data access Probably working statewide on broadband access and I think that's That I hope broadband comes read tracy matrano Uh, she's definitely an advocate for this But really getting looking at broadband as it's it's a utility. Everybody has to have it at this point mobile first designing for mobile first and then the other pieces it's And everybody here has done it that slow walk of saying that was emergency remote And we want to have well designed online opportunities and hybrid opportunities I think that we will see more large lectures go away in favor of asynchronous Short videos and then a flipped classroom kind of thing where where students go into recitation or sections To engage with problem solving and pure learning. So I think there's going to be A tremendous shift even for our on the ground courses there And kate, I don't know if that answered your question And I hope I got your name right there because you're a little question went off my screen. So It's kate montgomery. I think that was great. Thank you. Please please follow up if you if you'd like to add more Now that we've been showing you the different ways that the q&a box works Let me just show you how the video box works Let me just add to the stage the awesome A long time friend of the program tom hams Well, hello tom. Hang on one second. Good afternoon I think we've lost somebody I managed to really carefully just the Switch screens there and there we are all three of you. I'm looking at the right way. You're looking. Hi, Tom No, I'm looking the wrong way Thank you, Tom I was curious about you had mentioned in your in the in the lead up to this this your discussion of modalities and It's kind of curious what you meant by that because one of the things that I've been working on As I think about technology and how it relates to instruction Is this, you know, the pandemic has really shown How we Have developed this continuum of instruction And what you know when you take away some parts of those tools such as being able to be in a room with somebody You know, how do you make those other pieces work? So now we put those tools back and what can we learn from that? You know kind of fluid instruction method Right now. I'm kind of starting to work on a paper on You know, should we really stop talking about online education and should it all be you know Based on the pedagogical needs rather than some arbitrary classification of You know, you must have a computer and a modem to take this class kind of thing I think you sort of have to modem. I just showed my age there I have to say your example of Your example of the the the football in the shop class really kind of blew me away because You know, I know how old brian is and you look like you're not as old as we are so The idea that you were faking that when you were In an era when I was also in high school But no this idea of uh, you know, we when we first did this distance education remote education Whatever we called it 20 years ago wherever you were There was a need to have these very specific boxes because There wasn't an assumption that everybody was going to have access to that and be able to access that We're still not quite there yet, but you know, we're a lot closer than we were a year ago and but you know, I I want to use technology as a way of augmenting what i'm doing in my You know pedagogy and not arbitrarily decide. Okay. This is online. This is in person I want to choose online when it makes the most sense to do online I want to choose in person when it makes the most sense to do in person Is that kind of what you're heading talking about when you talk about modalities or am I totally messing with that No, I think I think you're absolutely right, Tom And I think uh, the some of the affordances of covet and we've been told specifically don't lose those learnings Like campus leadership has said that and I I can put the learnings into two buckets one um A greater percentage of faculty have a greater degree of comfort with tools technology tools Because they've had to like they've just had to jump in and They a greater percentage of faculty have a greater openness To different practices that those tools Or those platforms afford so those I think those are the those are the big learnings when it comes to modalities I think that in general we'll talk we're talking about either fully online and then there's a subset of that fully online mostly asynchronous and self-paced So think about like mookie, but not but not quite mooks And then and then it goes all the way to the the synchronous remote And and trying to come up with definitions so that people understand what they're doing In part so that we can We can market them I mean, there's no other way to say it so that we can market it to students So that they understand what they're getting into So if we say for instance this course is online But they sign up for the course and they're meeting three times a week for a 50 minute lecture And it just happens to be over video conference Is that really online and and so we're trying to to kind of flip it and see it from the student perspective As we come up with naming conventions for those different types of modalities And I think that I'm seeing a willingness Also across the campus to say Let's it's almost it's it's hybrid, but it's it's hybrid like in all caps where Where there's some asynchronous and there's some in-person and there's some synchronous remote All mixed into one Class experience So it's it's that's what I mean when I when I talk about experimenting with modalities I even mean like mashup. Maybe it's mashup. Maybe it's like mashup modality That we're really talking about Because I think you're still going to have fully online and you're going to still have fully In person but even that in person is going to be mediated but with with tech tools and platforms And then there's just like all of it's in between and and it's exciting because we don't know what it's going to look like But it's terrifying because we don't know how to tell people how to We don't know how to describe it so that they're coming into the right experience That meets their their learning needs and meets their life needs Does that so there were just are you running up against? No, absolutely. Yeah Are you running up against institutional or accreditation barriers as you start to work through that? Um, not yet. Not just the marketing side Not not yet. So, um, I think the that the the The last conversation with an accrediting body and it was it was the general one It wasn't like a specific. It wasn't um a bet or anything like that. It was Let's talk about the learning outcomes. Let's talk about um, it was interesting. So You know, there's still the contact hours piece that we have to to be careful of but I think that And maybe it's wishful thinking tom But I think that there there just might be a redefining of what does a contact hour mean and what does And who are you having contact with? Is it does it have to be the instructor of record or can it be a coach or can it be a facilitator or Like what what is that measure? And so that's um, so no, there's We haven't gotten that far down the road to say these are our definitions. Hey creditors. What do you think? Um, but I don't think we're planning on any Outside the realm of what's happening already The questions. Yeah, the contact error question is a big one in my mind and that and how that how that plays out You know realistically I've you know, I did I did I've done some hard analyses of my own classes classes and just thought about instruction and maybe 20 contact hours and then the other 80% asynchronous where the students, you know, and then I'm there to Be there on the edges to make sure they head down the right path But I mean they've still got videos and stuff like that. But anyway, I will I will exit the stage before brian unceremoniously dumps me So Thank you, Tom Thanks, Tom That's a good question and and thank you again for the for the detailed answers We have we have more questions piling in and I want to make sure that everyone gets a a chance to ask them One comes from jody green at ucse Let's see Hello jody Hi jody Hi jody. I'll get it. We're good You and thanks so much. This is really great. I have a question about what if anything you all are doing at utah for Preparing students to become effective online learners Do you have a sort of orientation to how to be a great online learner because we're finding that one of the Keys to addressing the persistent concerns about equity associated with remote and online education Is to make sure that we provide robust learning support so I work with our education team I run a teaching center and You know, we are in charge of remote instruction support But what we found is there's not a lot on the on the learner Facing side the student facing side That that goes hand in hand. You know, we build to keep learning along with our keep teaching website But beyond that, how do we help undergraduate students become good Online learners because it requires a lot of skills that a tradition In-person learner may not have not that we train them to be good learners either but we can talk about that another time So that's my great. I know and it's great and I wish I wish I had a really good answer and to say we have We've got this dialed in because we don't I think that one of the things that I've seen In the planning stages is a bridge course like an on ramp course That includes some of those things how we're but it's it's more general It's not necessarily for the online, but it's how are you good student? How do you manage? The technology, how do you manage mental health issues? So it's it's a little bit more general and I would love to hear from other people who who have things Because I will I'm meeting with the the student government next week and I would love to bring that up for them And and if there is something out there to everybody at the university of Utah, I'm sorry. I don't know about it Um, so um, and if there's anybody from the the you on there And they just want to put that in the chat and say debbie you don't know you this yet How do you not know this yet? Please tell me one hot tip that I'll give you and then I'll get off is Yes, please found that um that uh, if you're gonna use, you know, short videos for this that students give Advice to other students about learning is a lot more effective than having faculty give advice to students about learning Um, nice to their peers And as you know, okay, and to us. So anyway, that's just one thought great And is it are they using some sort of annotation software to do that in video or? Um, no, we literally made short videos. Uh, you know that we post I see I see Oh, that's great. And so if we were to do an online orientation module that included stuff about learning we would probably use Students. Um, I'm also going to put in the chat a wonderful set of resources that were developed Thank you another institution On this topic, but I have to go and find them. So, okay. Thank you, jody. I I appreciate this and Thanks for adding Another thing to do This is this is a good thing. This is a good never ending, right? And isn't that the best part? Yeah Thank you much. Thank you. Bye jerry Bye debra. And if anybody So, um, as examples we'd like to share, uh, please, uh, please Share through again the question box or through the chat box Um, debra, we have one from uh, kathleen freitag who's at portland We're navigating the same and discussing digital literacy with a tiered approach Um, and people mentioned uh peer-to-peer learning. We sederve melanie hove and the matthew plure matthew We're coming to your question. I promise, um The the part the students struggle with the most is learning to understand the practices and boundaries of every instructor Uh, so, uh, that's that's a really really nice thing See a little bit more about that because you repeat that please sure, uh, the students struggle with the most Is learning to understand the practices and boundaries of every instructor And you give some examples what they value how to get the grade or learning they want and so on um Matthew's a superb commentator, uh, and he has a question coming up, uh, but let me just uh, uh Mention that jerry. Thank you for that question And we have another one another video question coming in from carolin coward who has One of the best jobs in the world. She works She does y'all just so I have to bring her out of pure envy Caroline So I have to number one. I am a huge fan of deb cake franson. I bought the I'm wearing the I've got the Oh my god, I'm a fan girling right now. This woman is brilliant Of he is kind She has foresight like you would believe. Yeah, I'm I'm such a fan Well, thank you. I'm also a fan of this guy too, right? Dr. Alexander up there I'm just the host man. I'm just the host Thank you. So so my question is how is the university of utah handling? Dei or eid you have everyone at the inclusion and equity issues amongst, um faculty ranks, uh, Tenured and non-tenured and administration. There's a huge equity and inclusion disparity in higher ed administration and faculty. So what what is your institution doing about this? So there is a VP VP for edi so cabinet level There's also within faculty affairs And I don't know I don't It might be an AVP level, but but you know a title like an acronymed For faculty diversity And so they are so they're working hand in hand to make sure that that we're doing the best job we can to recruit and retain um, especially faculty of color, but um, but along all like to ensure diversity Um across the across the faculty ranks um, of course, this is problematized by By the the decrease in tenure tenure track faculty And so that's um, so so we'll just we'll just kind of set that that kind of not so nice piece of it aside for the second For a second, but what I see is absolute commitment Like I said, it's it's It's stunning. It's encouraging And so then when I write for instance when I say something to my staff and say Could we please bring in a content expert to do a content analysis? Of like just pick one course and let's see it Are these materials and are the practice is inclusive what I hear from from my bosses go This is exactly what we need to do There is such There there's so h again hr is on board like it feels like everybody is aligned And I think if there's one thing that I if there's one word that I pull out It's this alignment and if people are on their own campus is saying I don't know where to start Aligning yourself Like just making that one phone call writing that one email Uh, just to say to somebody else. What are you doing and can we replicate or can we join with you? I think is is amazing. We um in our unit. We also set up a and and yes, I'm I'm a little bit trend For once I'm trendy like we're calling it the jedi council because they wanted to call it And I was like, please call it the jedi council. Please please. I don't get you gifts if you call it the jedi council So it's the justice equity diversity and inclusion council. I love that. No, it's not awesome I hope it doesn't I hope it doesn't distract from the the importance of it or the the absolute Seriousness the life and death of it, but it just does add just a little bit of feelings to find the truth. Oh, yeah Sorry I had to I'm sorry. I know you did that's okay. It doesn't we forgive you for that. Um, so, um so what's What we know I've lost my train of thought all I can think about is is that um, yeah bad start So what we're doing is also aligning with what's happening at the campus So for instance the museum has the black refractions exhibit from from harlem And so we make sure that we provide a services if they want do you need some video? Do you need? Do you need an uh an asynchronous tour? Can we have a virtual tour of that? So we're trying to find out Who on campus is doing what and then making sure that our staff know that these are available. Um, angela davis was in town um a couple weeks ago, um A big shout out to amber ruffin um Her new book with her sister um It's some and I can't remember the title. I'm in the middle of it now and for for White people it's probably very I mean for me. It's very uncomfortable because I read it and say oh, please. Please. I I hope that Nothing like that has ever emerged from my mouth, but I I don't I don't know um And on the other hand wow, this is what people of color put up with every single day so we've got these voices on campus And it's a click away. I mean it's literally a click away. You click it There's your video you're on you can watch it after the fact when you're on the treadmill I mean it's it you has made this so easy for people to access Different voices that I think it's just it's it's raising awareness Which is is that first step and with hr right behind saying this is how you advertise for jobs This is how you write job descriptions. This is how um, this is this is what is important in having a diverse pool and Making sure that the finalist pool is diverse as well That's I mean to have that as just wave upon wave of effective practices I believe will make a difference in the long term. It's um, the the Yeah, I I I can't say enough good things about it. It's a multitude of efforts that are all kind of Meeting in the middle and supporting each other and using sort of the same language and the same tone and Multi-pronged effort Exactly. That's wonderful. Multi-pronged aligned There we go back to alignment. Excellent. Yes Carolyn, thank you so much. Carolyn so good to see you. Thanks. You thank you both We have a whole bunch of folks in the chat have been sharing examples of Different resources for this And I've been sharing the backs over we can see them But um, some of these are very very powerful We have more questions coming in and we also have 15 minutes left And I want to make sure that everyone gets a chance to ask their questions Uh, we had uh, john o'brien came in the president of edgy cause. Who's that? I'm sorry. Who's that? What's in? Okay. Oh john o'brien. Okay. It's it's a good name. Sorry. It is a good name It's still wrong, but but you know, it's it's a it's a pretty good name. Um, and uh, are you john? And yes, is there a quote restore evolve transform? Unquote conversation happening relative to dei. So restore evolve transform And I'll flash this on the screen too. I'll make sure that yeah, please too because that's a that's an interesting one All right Not as a quote john, can you say what you mean by um Restore I can I can get evolve and transform. So I don't I I don't know not not as not as those three words No, not not that i'm working on and yet all three of those words Resonate and so except for that restore, which I just want to poke into a little bit more But but certainly that evolve and transform. I mean I I hope what we have is is transformation That that we we and maybe that's why restore isn't isn't jumping out at me as as a As a motivating verb Evolve yes, but I think at this point given everything that that happened in 2020 with the murder of george floyd with the just the racial reckoning all of that It's got to be transformed because we And and and transform can be Can be abrupt and painful don't get me wrong and scary But I don't see any other way But like um the way carolin said that that there's just From lots of different places the same tone the same message to affect Real broad change. I think that's the only thing we can we can do so John, I don't know if it was a multiple choice question But if it's a multiple choice question, I'm going for c my answer is c Transform But I think there are probably places where people are not ready for transform Or institutions are not so maybe it is about evolve and restore Even though I don't know what restore means in this In the chat John mentions that he's having some audio visual problems or else you join us But he said that you got it right He says c is always the right choice So, okay, good to know anytime. I have a class with a Non-proctor or proctored assessment. I'm going with c for all of them Right down. Thank you john And thank you indeed We we have we have some more questions and also another resource to share This is from Everybody by the way Rachel this is a link from her for a link for resources new for students new to online And so I'll I'll tweet a bunch of these out when we're done. Thank you. It's a great set Thank you, Rachel. Oh, we have a another question along these lines That I've been waiting to ask this is from leslie harris at bucknell asks how do these dei issues intersect with it in particular You're using your awareness to change policies and practices in it Excellent question And this is where this is where I feel most comfortable because this is where I've worked so long with edu cause And a shout out to john o'brien and edu cause for really Privileging and forwarding and making Very salient dei issues across all the offerings of of edu cause And so leslie what what we have done Over time is we have we have community groups in edu cause Again, it can't this is the commercial part of of this q and a But the women in it the diversity in it the young professionals in it All of these groups are really aligned around how do we recruit retain include and promote a diverse it workforce and So I see it as intersecting with it in a couple of ways first We need to We need to make sure that our services In it meet the needs of the population we serve And so we want to make sure that we have either a really honed sense of empathy and And compassion and seeing things from other people's perspectives to provide those services and or That our workforce the the employees in our units are actually representative of the Of the the student body and the faculty body in the community that we serve So that's that's one big thing just just to make sure that that we have diversified our our workforce And we have practices for that Uh Koopa hr is is one great organization that you can look at they've made diversity equity and inclusion A central part of the work they do working closely with edu cause most hr units Are members of of this organization And so there's another piece of alignment really making sure that that your hr is supportive of this and and has a broad understanding of it and I I'm sure there are some hr units that don't but but you can also point them to these freely available resources and thinking That's out there already um, and then there's there's this idea too of inclusive Design practices and inclusive pedagogy that sometimes that some units some it units are responsible for And in that case it means working with faculty to help them understand that the design decisions they make For their their courses their programs and even for individual classes Have an impact positive or negative on the students that they teach and so really raising awareness about The impact of their their design decisions. I think is um Is important for it and I wanted to a shout out to Amy Collier from Middlebury Who has a great article in um edu cause review on inclusive design and design justice And what design justice is and and it can and it could work anywhere It can work for programs and for services is you you put at the center of your design So when you have the persona that you're designing for that persona is From a marginalized Community or a marginalized population Or has a marginalized Identity and if you design for them It's actually designing for everybody, but by putting them at the center You don't lose them the way we usually do design is our persona looks a lot like us highly educated and And probably in a majority culture and we designed for that and then we miss out on the the breadth and the The potential reach of our services and programs design justice turns it on its head And so I I'd really recommend reading that um that article by Amy Yeah, and also just a plug. Uh, Amy another really really good future transform guest Yes We have Even more questions, but also friends. We've got seven minutes to go So I want to make sure that you know, we don't lose anybody And here is one of those questions that I mentioned before that I threatened to bring up. This is from a media plur Mathew asks How do you address faculty who think that college is a sink or swim experience? And are therefore reluctant to pick up more caring approaches Mathew, I wish I could speak french with you, but I cannot I can only say some curse words I will not but I will answer that question. This is um, this is Sometimes difficult because and I actually had this discussion with somebody in engineering earlier in the week where There was and this is lovely. Um, there was a commitment to access um, there was a commitment to equity And I said, okay, can you promise me that you do that you do not have engineering courses where? Um You say in the first day of class look to your left look to your right two of you will be gone Please tell me that you don't have that because if you've got that then All of your talk about equity and inclusion Doesn't it doesn't ring true because you will be Having assessments that are sink or swim So this is where the the student voice comes in and this is where we're working with student government to say Let's have you it's it's sort of what jody was saying the student is student teaching Is effective and I think the student messaging to um, The the faculty is also effective, but you should know that i'm also having to say why do we have Um non-credit courses. Why do we have professional certifications when they're not our our traditional core product of a degree? and that it it is it's it's constant communication and it's Also persuasive communication about this is the mission of higher education the mission of higher education is is uh the creation of of new knowledge But it's also the dissemination of that and the product the the way we package it Doesn't matter as much as getting it out there and sometimes that new knowledge is is skills That non-matriculated students can use in the workplace to affect the social good to improve the social fabric and so that seems to resonate with some but not all faculty and And if you've got different messaging, I'd love to hear it Because this is hard And and he will follow up and he also just shared a really nice length. I'm tweeting out to his persona worksheet assignment Okay, nice. That's very very good. And thank you Um, thank you for that great exchange between the two of you um, we have another one from uh, a couple of these actually are Specifically focused on individual technologies. So let me bring up a one Andrew Zuberi Who is among other things someone who survived at least one of my classes? and How can higher ed come up with safeguards against facial recognition and AI bias in ed tech tools Holy cannoli, I don't know Andrew Um, but here's some ideas that I have. I think it has to start with putting pressure on The companies that are developing it. So I think one of the more frustrating Periods of time that I had was probably 10 or 12 years ago when we were trying to influence companies to develop Accessible technology like why isn't that why do we have to be the ones Individually all 3 000 of us putting this into our Contracts. Why don't you just design? tools that are accessible And so for me, I think this is the next stage of it where we have to put pressure on companies to say design tools that protect privacy that don't have That don't have biases in them It it will never be perfect But I think that collectively as higher education if we can put pressure on maybe that will have an influence When I first heard about the surveillance committee at the University of Utah I was I was taken aback a little bit because they wanted to come in and and and have oversight over proctoring software And maybe zoom but maybe not When is but whereas before they were really concerned about cameras on campus and privacy and surveillance and And now I'm I've I've come very quickly to embrace that because I also think that Faculty involvement and researcher involvement in this can help us leverage our voices with those vendors And to say no, this is not this is not appropriate. This is not acceptable And if collectively we say that then maybe there will be change Oh, that's a great question. And uh, since There are a couple of Notes on the in the chat in response to this Elena O'Malley mentions a documentary called Coded bias Yes, word adds that we should insist on an ethics statement from every vendor that we work with nice Um, and we have a question from uh, the awesome sally moody amu Also in portland state. So we've got the all coast represented here today Uh, and she asks what are your thoughts about platforms like circle in Where students have learning communities online separate from their teaching faculty? um My thoughts are i'm all for it and I don't I Students have always had separate learning communities. So in person on the grounds. They've all I'll develop those. I think that the only The only caveats I see with that Are are these safe places for students and is there equitable participation? So if those things could be could be built into it somehow or or have students become aware of those inclusivity and equity and safe space Places i'm i'm absolutely all for it because the more The more that uh students take ownership of their own learning and again I'll go back to jody one more time that peer-to-peer learning is so powerful. I think that's wonderful I think there's some caveats, but um, we can address those I'd like to um, take advantage shameless advantage of my role here and uh and take the last minute to ask you a question, uh for myself Which is I'd like to imagine How would higher education it look different? uh Say five years from now if we all committed to the kind of work you're talking about Everything from changing your design persona to exploring different ways of Training and supporting our staff Well, if we just hit fast forward on that vision, what is it in the five years? How are we different? I think we're full we are fulfilling our access mission We are reaching different communities and different student persona or persona with with um With the content they need when they need it And acknowledge the fact that there is not a straight line Even though we we can only report success if if we report the straight line toward completion of degrees or certificates I think that um the humanities will rule in my in my um In my lovely space because I think they're at the basis is a basis of a lot of that and there's layering on of different um Uh more skills based tools or technology on that but everybody's got that deep grounding And and that was a shameless that was shameless for you brian wasn't it just to go right for the humanities at the very end but um I'm so that's that's I think we're fulfilling the access mission and I think that We have a wide breadth of opportunities that run from the traditional to the very new And that that it's that the way the tools are provided and implemented is equitable and inclusive So that's my that's my happy place and I'm gonna I'm going for that and um, thank you I I do I didn't say thank you at the beginning brian this it's an honor to to be with you and be on here so Thank you for that and thank you to everybody for being so generous And sharing both with questions and resources You are what makes um higher ed tick and I'm I'm grateful to be able to be here with you Well, thank you so much for saying that that was beautifully said and a marvelous guest Thank you so much for everything you say. Thank you We're we just blasted past the end of the hour. So we have to wrap things up Uh one quick question never how do we keep up with you? What's the best way to track your your work in Utah? I Don't know We don't we don't yet have a website. I every time I go on twitter. I fail badly like really badly Like really badly. Um, I've I've given up. So I don't I'm I don't know for now LinkedIn LinkedIn you can follow me on linkedin. There it is. I knew there was something I knew there was something out there And we'll bring you back later on too. Thank you so much. Thank you very much Take care everybody Now don't leave everybody because we just have to touch on what's happening for the next uh a few weeks So just to give you a little flash forward remember we have people who are going to be talking about reinventing a public university We have analytics leadership campus closures disruption and gaming education. There's just a few topics We also have many many venues for keeping up this conversation everywhere from linkedin and twitter uh to slack and facebook And if you'd like to go back and look at previous previous sessions Where we focused on diversity equity and inclusion or we focused on transforming higher education it or both Just go to tiny world.com slash ftf archive Thank you all uh today for all these wonderful questions and great resources. It's an absolute delight Um during this wild time. It's been especially good spending time with you. Thank you for all of your contributions It's great to be part of this community Now until next time, please take care be safe and we'll see you online. Bye. Bye