 Thank you all for joining us for this international perspectives, the diverse journeys of women in STEM. I'd like to begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land on which I'm meeting you from today here in Canberra. I'm speaking to you from Ngunnawal country and I pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging. So my name is Julianne Guevara and I'm Australia's Ambassador for Gender Equality and I'm your moderator for today's exciting discussion. We hope that this session today sparks your interest and curiosity and encourages women from across our region to consider studying STEM degrees and pursuing a STEM career. So today, of course, you'll hear from three women who have very diverse and exciting careers. We have an astrophysicist, a cyber expert, and an expert in bananas. In fact, I think I've seen on YouTube her being referred to as banana mama. So firstly, I'd like to introduce you to Professor Lisa Harvey Smith. Lisa is Australia's Ambassador for Women in STEM. She will tell us about her role and why it exists and a little bit about her career. After that, she will join a panel, along with Tagalima Nimea, who's a cyber expert from Samoa and Dr Feeney Devani, who is a geneticist and a molecular biologist from Indonesia. So the panel will discuss their careers and also the impacts of their work. As audience members, of course, you're welcome to ask questions. Please post them in the Zoom chat. And if there's time at the end, some of these questions will try and select and be directed to the panel. So without further ado, I'd now like to pass to Lisa Harvey Smith, our wonderful Ambassador for Women in STEM. Lisa, I'll let you introduce yourself and your role and tell us a little bit about what you do. Yes. Thank you so much, Julianne. And good afternoon, everyone, or maybe good morning from wherever you're joining us in the world. It's great to have this dialogue about STEM careers and a very exciting world of technology and science. I'm speaking to you from Mua Nina country in southern Australia and Australia's women in STEM ambassador. My role is to work with the government, with the business sector, and with education sector as well to make STEM education and careers more accessible and safer for women. Before I was appointed into this role, I was a full-time astrophysicist for almost 20 years working in the UK, from Germany, the Netherlands, and then finally to Australia. So it's been a really exciting journey. Nowadays, I'm actually also an author of children's books and a couple of adults books too on astrophysics. So my career has kind of taken a bit of a path and I've written more than 50 scientific papers as well in my research which focuses on the birth and death of stars so how they're born and die in our galaxy. I've studied magnetic fields in space and how they shape amazing clouds of glowing gas in our galaxy. And I've studied distant galaxies and supermassive black holes. And it's really great to use the physics and mathematical skills that I learned in my university degrees to actually look at the universe and try to understand more about its history. And I've spent years on very exciting international projects, including the development of the Square Kilometer Array, or SKA, which is a huge radio telescope, which is currently being built in Australia and South Africa, and many countries around the world have come together to create this very exciting project. So when it's built, when it's finished, it will be the most powerful radio telescope in the world, and we'll look at millions of years of the history of our universe in radio waves, so invisible waves that are coming to us from distant stars and galaxies. And this project is wonderful because it just typifies the international collaboration that makes science so special and allows people from different nations to come together in study and in, I guess, the practice of science as well. Outside of science, I sit on the advisory board for the Australian Space Agency, which is quite a new agency, only about three years old, but our space industry is booming, which is very exciting and it's great to be on that advisory committee. And I'm also on the Questacon Advisory Committee, that's for our National Scientific Wonderful Science Centre, that it's hosting this event today. I've written five popular science books, books for children as well, and that's a really wonderful part of my career journey that I enjoy very much. But since I was appointed as Australia's Women in STEM Ambassador, I focused on creating Australia's STEM stars of the future. So my team and I work closely with the Australian government to build the visibility of women in STEM and to create positive changes in our society. We do it because it's the right thing to do, but it's also sensible economically. Advanced mathematical and physical sciences are worth $145 billion a year to our economy. And according to a report from a few years ago of the economy and the contributions of different parts of it, if 1% of Australian women moved into the STEM workforce, it would add $57 billion to our economy over the next 20 years. So this is why governments are very, very keen to get more women and girls working in STEM. Of course, it's important for other reasons. Women need to have access to well paying jobs for women's economic security, as well as taking their rightful place in designing the technology that really defines our culture and our society today. And technologies are coming into every area of work, so that this is really an important thing that young people see in race. And a career like many places in the world has a serious shortage of women working in STEM jobs, and it's particularly bad in engineering and computing. So, we're really keen to increase the participation of women in the STEM workforce. To tackle this problem, we got together a couple of years ago armed with some government money to bring together people from all across the STEM sector to create a 10-year plan for women in STEM. And that was a really great project because it helped us understand reasons why people aren't necessarily going into STEM careers and to have a plan to achieve greater participation. So we've also got a STEM women database, which was launched just over a year ago, I think, and has thousands of women signed up. And these are women who work in STEM and they're willing to go into schools to talk to young people about STEM careers, and also people who may wish to join boards or committees in large companies. So it's really giving women opportunities to speak to the media, to speak to schools, and to get greater visibility of women working in these areas. We've got a wonderful Girls in STEM toolkit, which is a website for young people in secondary education, so in high school, who can go to this place and really see some exciting role models, some exciting resources, and also great resources for teachers who can make their workplaces, their schools more gender equitable. So showing kids role models that aren't just people like Einstein, the traditional scientists that maybe we learned about those of us who are a bit older. I'm sure that there are thousands and thousands of women making discoveries, as they always were, and as they always will be in the future, women doing great work in science and making those women more visible is what we try to do. The Office Runs Future You campaign, which shows kids in primary school, really exciting STEM careers using non-traditional role models in the fun animated characters. So we launched the campaign last year, and it's been seen by more than three million young Australians. And we've measured a threefold increase in positive attitudes to STEM education amongst girls who've seen the campaign. And slightly smaller, but all the equally important increases in boys assessments of how exciting and important STEM is in the world. So that's really great that we're able to create role models for young people and try and drive young people to see more options for themselves in STEM. We've also got initiatives to improve workplaces. So the government has funded the SAGE initiative. And the SAGE initiative is it guides universities and research organisations to just sort of on a journey to remove the barriers to women's participation in the workforce and women's leadership as well. So that universities and research places will have more women in leadership and better workplaces. For example, things like equal parental leave in workplaces so that men can take more responsibility for looking after children. So we're trying to really dismantle some of the structural barriers that women face in education and careers. I've delivered more than workshops to more than 11,000 teachers to help schools do better and avoid gender stereotypes in their classrooms. And we're trying to raise awareness of the benefits of STEM jobs amongst teachers as well. So we're changing the way that research funding is assessed. So when people submit applications for research funding, we're removing the names of the applicants so that they can be assessed on their merits and not on maybe some stereotypes or assumptions about the applicants. So we're doing a lot of different work. It's important because by building a system where all talents are recognised, we create an inclusive STEM culture that delivers great innovation, new ideas, and science and technology that benefits everyone in society. So it's our common aim as nations around the world to work together to this to this end. And it's great to see colleagues from different nations today who are going to share their studies with everyone. I really love this discussion. So thank you once again for having me in this discussion. And I look forward to our panel session. Thank you very much. Thanks so much Lisa for that really insightful introduction. I mean, I think it's great to hear, of course, the work that you're doing as Australia's ambassador for STEM, the importance obviously of engaging with young women and girls at an early age about the possibilities and the variety of work that you can do in various STEM fields I think is really fantastic. And I'm really pleased too that you obviously highlighted, you know, the significant opportunities that you have for international cooperation and I think, you know, that will be a little bit on display here today of course with the other So it is now my great privilege to officially welcome our other panelists who are joining us from across the Asia Pacific region. Firstly, I'll turn to Tagalima Namia, who is the principal PC and network officer for the Samoan Ministry of Finance, a position that she's held for after several successful careers in both the Samoan private and public sectors. She completed her master's degree at RMIT. She's the first Samoan woman based in country to be a cyber security expert. Tagalima believes in leading by example, and she will use her IT skills and experience of working within male dominated environments to inspire Samoan women to become IT literate. She would like to be bold enough to follow their chosen career paths. She would like to set up information centers and online platforms that empower Samoan women to access new career opportunities skills enrichment programs. So thank you so much for joining us today Tagalima. I have the privilege of introducing Dr Finney Devani. Dr Devani has earned her PhD in biology from the University of Melbourne in 2004. She is an associate professor at the School of Life Science and Technology at Bangdong Institute of Technology in Indonesia. She is a specially appointed associate professor at the Department of Advanced Science and Biotechnology at the Graduate School of Engineering at Osaka University in Japan. Her research group, the genetics and molecular biotechnology research group is affectionately known as the banana group. The goal is to improve Indonesia's fruit quality through pre and post harvest technologies. The group has also been involved in space biology research since 2007. And in 2011 the team successfully sent Indonesian tomato seeds to the International Space Station as the first Indonesian space biology experiment. So thank you to both Tagalima and Dr Finney for joining us today from your respective countries. I would now like to begin asking you a few questions if I could. Maybe first turning to Dr Finney and then Tagalima and then to Lisa. I was hoping that you might share experiences of when did you fall in love with STEM and when did you decide that STEM was for you. Dr Finney if I could turn to you first please. Thank you very much Julianne and also thank you for the organizer to invite me to this prestigious event and it's very happy to have you here. I was falling in love with STEM since I was very young at elementary school. I was chosen as a Dr Pechil in Indonesian or a little doctor at my school to take care of my friends at school. Then I when I was sixth grade when I saw a TV news about one of Indonesian woman scientists, Professor Prathini Sudharmono, she is the first Indonesian astronaut. And then I had a dream to become an Indonesian astronaut too. But unfortunately until now my dream to become an astronaut is not come true. However, in 2007, there is an opportunity to learn space biology in JAXA, Japan Space Agency. And in 2011, then I became one of the space seed for ASEAN future team member together with scientists from across the Asia Pacific country and sent in Asia tomato seeds to space. So in parallel, we also developed this experiment to study the effect of microgravity in banana ripening. Despite I couldn't reach my dream, I'm glad that we have sent an Indonesian tomato to become an astronaut. Okay, thank you, Julie, and that's when I fall in love with STEM. Super. Thank you so much, Dr Pechil. Dr Pechil, can I turn to you? What made you fall in love? Thank you, Julie Ann. So I first became interested in science when I was in year eight. I had this amazing science teacher and she was more a role model to me. It got me interested that I would work so hard to try and get full marks for any assignments in science. And that was when, and so science became my favorite subject. And because of my teacher's encouragement and support during high school, I always thought of becoming a doctor. But it wasn't until later that I was at a time to try to decide on what to do as a to undertake as a bachelor's degree. And that my dad, who was really sick at the moment, I mean, at the time he, he said to me, do something that when you come back, I'm still here. And so this was something that, you know, kind of made me thought and change my path. And so instead of undertaking a doctor's degree, which will take about six or more years. I decided to pursue a degree in computing science for three years. And that was, that's how it led me to a career path in IT career. Great. It's amazing. Yes, those stories about how influential teachers can be. And it goes to the point I suppose that Lisa was making earlier about the importance of teachers, you know, creating that that mindset that there are opportunities for you. Yeah, I mean, there's so many moments aren't there in life when you get some inspiration, but the ones I remember really when I was about 11 or 12. And I lived in quite a rural area so away from a lot of city lights and my dad and I went into the garden to look at the stars one night. And he had read an article in the newspaper saying that you could see the planet Mars. So we went outside and had a look and he didn't know where to look and I didn't know where to look and we were kind of staring up at the stars. And I remember it saying it was very orange color very distinctive bright orange and we found it. And after that I was just amazed by this, you know, experience. And, you know, we got a really old 1950s star Atlas like a book paper book of the skies, and I learned how to identify the different groups of stars or constellations. And, yeah, I never looked back I just became obsessed with astrophysics. I wanted to become an astrophysicist I didn't even know what that was or how you could do it. But, yeah, after reading a million books and, and then deciding to go for it. Obviously went to university and studied for seven years to actually get my PhD and become a researcher, but it was just a fill in love really as a child and that was a great moment. So it's really important for parents I think as well as, you know, the great things teachers do but all parents have the, the capabilities by their children even if they don't really know much about science because my dad didn't. Beating curiosity I think that's a really good point to add to the conversation. Tagalima, could I ask you, how did studying in Australia contribute to your career because I think yes as I mentioned in your bio you studied in Australia. What doors did studying in Australia open for you when you returned home to Samoa. Well, cybersecurity was not a degree that was offered locally but having the chance to study abroad and coming back, gave me, like, gave me confidence and you know I had the ability to apply for a job that I've always wanted. And since I've returned I've had opportunities to work in partnership with a network that you know through some network I was able to work in partnership with the girl kick Academy in Australia. So, to launch a girl kick Academy in Samoa so we were, we wanted we were focusing on teaching girls at the age of six to 12 on just the basics of coding. What we were trying to do is for girls because you know in the Pacific you don't get much opportunities like as in Australia where they have a lot of you know camps and coding, you know, technology related opportunities, but we wanted to give the girl something new. And hopefully that they could develop it as a new hobby, be able to have the ability to create their own app or game. And with the goal that they will be interested enough to start a career path in technology, or, or stem. And in addition, I am currently working with some women in leadership initiative. I'm an alumni in partnership with women in business. And we, we, so we do workshops for someone families around the island in different communities, and my contribution to this. So I've been educating parents and children on some cyber security issues and how they can surf the internet, you know, safely surf the internet. It's a very important issue you raise and in fact here in Australia to we have an in safety commissioner. Julie imminent grant who is focused on those very important issues around cyber security for not only, you know, for businesses but also for families, you know young women and girls who are obviously accessing the online environment and of course we're doing more so than ever now during this quarantine period. So, really interesting to to hear your story about the importance of networks. As you build out your, your careers in in science and technology. It's really important obviously to have those sorts of networks and, you know, ordinarily I think you know for a lot of our male colleagues they have those networks they they build them they encourage growth in them but it's lovely to hear that you're, you know, building your own networks in stem in Samoa. Dr Fanny if I could now turn to you about your experiences and how studying in Australia contributed to your career. And what doors did it open for you when you returned to Indonesia. Thanks. I went to the University of Melbourne to conduct my study. Since this university is one of the best university and well known globally and graduated in 2004. During my PhD, I was focusing my study on molecular biology field using barley as a plant model, mainly new approach, as well as some cutting and technologies in molecular biology I learned. One of the most important things was experience to conduct a research as a big team member. I was lucky during my PhD, I have opportunity to join one of the best cell wall group in the world and I learned how to conduct research in Bali with multidisciplinary team. The experiences give me opportunity to develop not only my skill and knowledge in life science field but also opportunity to develop my confidence and to learn how to manage a big research group. Back to Indonesia, I start my research with only three students and a little amount of funding as well as limited infrastructure to be able to run a molecular biology and then genetic engineering research. I was one of the first generation of molecular biologists at genetic and molecular biology expert group at my university at Institute of Technology Nando Indonesia. I was lucky that my institution and my senior colleagues were very supportive at my early career period so I was able to do my research with my students. Fortunately, many opportunities come at the first five years of my career as faculty member and my research project to continue until now. In 2004, I obtained funding from one of the Indonesia biggest companies in the world for my proposed research to develop banana post-harvest technology. Then followed by several research awards from the Royal University of Women in Science as well as from the Salam Brzee Foundation and the Australia Industrial Research Award to continue my research at the University of Melbourne and Queensland University in Brisbane as a postdoctoral fellow and visiting scientist. I started with only three students and now around 100 students and postdoctoral fellow have been joined to our research group, the Banana Group. Of course, I'm very lucky that my former PhD and postdoctoral supervisor in Australia, Professor Tony Besig and Dr Ed New Begin always support my career until now and I would like to thank them for very continued support and today I'm very happy that Tony Besig also here with us. Hello, Penny. Thank you so much for coming. Okay, thank you, Julianne. Thank you, Dr Feeney. And it's great, yes, that we have people joining us from around the region who are interested in hearing, you know, these these personal stories. And it's amazing the work that you have done obviously to grow the network of molecular biologists in Indonesia through your work and your passion so that that's fantastic to see. Can I please encourage people to continue. I've seen questions popping up in the chat. As I said, we will hopefully get some time to allow to post those questions to the panelists so keep those questions coming in that's absolutely fantastic. Now I wanted to ask all the panelists and I might again start with Tagalima and then Dr Feeney and then Lisa. How can we build collaborative STEM networks so I mentioned this in the case of Tagalima's response to make STEM a place where everyone can thrive across countries and regions. You know what opportunities are there for collaboration, including to address I suppose those gender inequalities that I think you know Lisa in particular has touched on. So maybe if I could start with Tagalima because you mentioned STEM networks and then I'll turn to Lisa and then Dr Feeney Tagalima. Thank you, Julian. Um, this is a hard one. To be honest, I've been thinking a lot about it and I don't really have a clear answer. But because I know it's a bit difficult in the region because we're diverse and and I know for some we tend to have some, I mean networking is out of a comfort zone. And it was I was like that. And for me, I actually give credit to my Australian Award, Australian Award experience, because this was where I was able to have the opportunity to build network, not only with people in Australia but with some other Pacific Island scholars. And it was there that, you know, I was able to get out of my comfort zone. And I, I know it's a bit difficult but you know this is a challenge within the region and I'm very interested to be part of the solution. But another thing that I felt was helpful in my networking experience was having a mentor. Because having a mentor is someone that you know you share the same similar interest and you can ask for support or guidance and also, you know, throw some ideas around and you know for me this was what really helped me to get to where I am today. And when I was studying, I sometimes I, I would sometimes, you know, need that, you know, just that support. And so, I turned to my mentor and she was really helpful as for opportunities for collaboration and addressing gender inequality. I would say early introduction of technology in early learning and primary education curriculums. I'm not sure about other Pacific Islands, but for some more. The computer is mostly introduced in your year 12. And, but I think if we bring stem in at an early, early age and normalize it, it will definitely address some gender inequality, you know, having both boys and girls learn the same thing from a young age. It will give them will give the girls, you know, confidence to know that you know, this is it's normal not something that only boys can be a part of. And this, I guess this was part of why I wanted to to teach coding to young girls at the age of 6 to 12 because you know I wanted them to to be encouraged and you know there is something for them in technology and you know they there's so much that they could do with technology and I just wanted to encourage them to have an interest take some interest in in a technology career path. And I believe that children taught at an early age have better chance of, you know, success and better chance of developing their abilities and their capabilities. Thank you so much Tagalina and I see people high fiving you for you know the work that you've done in terms of yeah like having the confidence to create those networks so good on you. Lisa can I turn to you please about your experiences with you know establishing networks, you know what what tools did you use, you know what opportunities are there to try and break some of the down some of those gender inequalities. Yeah, really, it's really interesting I think earlier on in my career I probably relied more on official networks, so the research group and my supervisor and the colleagues around me, and also maybe my professional society for my, you know branch of science so in my case the astronomical professional societies. But there's quite a limit to what they can achieve. You know, you can achieve great things when you get together in your professional society. We had a women in astronomy chapter in our professional society, and I led that for for some time and we developed together. Really great policies that have been taken up by many universities and research organizations around Australia. And that work has really improved workplaces, which is great a great example. But then, as I've gone through my career I think I've developed more informal networks now with groups of people who are working towards the same goals. Whether they be in gender equality, or whether they be in STEM, or even in science communication. So lots of really great groups that I'm a member of where people discuss what's going on. And some really informal where you know I'm in some WhatsApp groups of women in STEM who share information and support each other and ask for help when they need when they need it. So I would really encourage maybe people earlier in their careers to to reach out to their peers and their colleagues and people that they perhaps admire maybe a bit more than you to get advice and and not just mentoring but that sponsorship which really means someone actively working to advance your career. And I think all of those things are really valuable. Yeah, thank you Lisa I mean that point you make about sort of that multi disciplinary kind of approach to networks is quite interesting and so I think Dr Finney you mentioned this as well so I might turn to you and just ask you about your experience with networks. Okay, thank you. Yes, our banana group consists of men and women expect from many fields, and each member has equal right to become a project leader, as well as each team member has right to be treated equally as part of my experience. Let's start with more non disciplinary research, which was focused on molecular biology approach, then our team become multi disciplinary stem stem. We are using bananas model, bananas model research using different perspective from genetics molecular biology, nanotechnology, remote sensing IOT art and design so on so our team is become bigger and bigger and we have many collaboration with both government and private institution in Indonesia and other countries, and to do banana research. In 2017, we then launched research foundation in a big research foundation for Indonesia biography and baby city, and also international research center for banana as well as a banana smart village. In addition, in 2019, I have also pointed as head of genetics and molecular biology expert group at ITV, and also become ITV academic senate as representative of our faculty. As you know that our task is to create university and academic policy that applies to the university. So, also, I get to say that our faculty and university also lead by women. In 2017, I was also chosen as a member of Indonesia Young Academy of Science or this young academic science process of both men and women in Indonesia young scientists under 45 years old. As a member, we have so many opportunities to within our collaboration, both nationally and globally, including with Indonesian Academy of Science and Australia Academy of Science members. In 2016, we have the first Australia Indonesia science symposium in Canberra, and I become one of the seven compares for this prestigious symposium. So, yes, in my experience, as well as we are experts in STEM field, both men and women have equal opportunities in their career, I think. Thank you, Julie. I have one last question to ask you all and then we will go to questions obviously from the audience. My last question I'll start with Lisa. What's the most exciting thing you've done in your career so far? Oh, that's so hard. I'm going to cheat and say lots of things. Okay. In science, I weighed a supermassive black hole in a distant galaxy using only the laws of physics. So watching gas whirling around this black hole from millions and trillions of kilometers away. Using the shift in the light towards the red or the blue color and spectrum managed to use some physical equations to figure out how much the black hole weighed. That was really, really cool. Professionally, though, working with hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of engineers, you know, experts in different fields, and scientists as a design and watch emerge the SKA telescope and that I talked about earlier and the Pathfinder telescopes in Australia. Incredible and to get the first images from that telescope working in it for close to a decade. That's really special. And of course, the other things I do in my career that I didn't even expect to do, like hosting a TV show about stars and stargazing, writing books. I've toured Australia in theaters with Buzz Aldrin, Second Mantle Step on the Moon and other Apollo astronauts. So just meeting incredible people, sharing science with the world, doing scary nerve wracking things as well as the hard work of research. It's been a really fun journey. Great. Thanks, Lisa. Tagalima, can I ask you the same question, but I've also got a question just to throw in from the audience because we're, I'm just conscious that, yeah, we're, you know, running out of time and I do want to give the opportunity for people and from the audience. So in addition to what you've done, that's super exciting. Can you also talk a little bit about what keeps you motivated to stay abreast of knowledge in your field. So how do you how do you keep up to date basically with with developments, you know, in your cybersecurity sector. So thank you Julian for the question. Well, I'll first answer the exciting part. Maybe it won't be very exciting for most but for me it's exciting to be actually to be actually, you know, to actually work with my colleagues in my organization on and sharing my knowledge on ways we can try and to ensure that our IT, IT network or infrastructure is less vulnerable to cyber attacks. So yeah, as you know, like cyber attacks is frequent now, and it's all around the world. And, you know, it's something that and to link it to the question. You know, with technology, it's ever evolving and you can't really like, you know, something that was there yesterday, you come back today and it's a totally new, you know, it's evolved. I would say the way most I'm just talking from experience and my from with my colleagues, we join forums and, you know, you do a lot of research it's more like with technology you just have to research. If you hear something on the news, you know, just one and on Google and start searching and, you know, we, we know, you know, what's out there so, you know, even if you don't have direct, you know, experience with it but just to be able to have that knowledge that, you know, there's a possible, there's a possibility that, you know, your security could also be, you know, infiltrated like you could be the vulnerabilities in your own organization could be exploited by someone else. I think it's all about researching joint forums that, you know, that have a lot of people that share the same interest with you. So, yeah. Sorry, I'm on mute. Thank you so much for that. Dr. Feeney, can I ask you what's the most exciting opportunities you've had so far. Thank you Julian. So together with our group, the banana group, with local villagers in Indonesia and local government, we have done a village in Bali into last banana smart village. And then awarded by Indonesian Ministry of Environment and Firstly, as the best sustainable village in 2020. So I think this is one of our happy and exciting experiences since our works can be applied and useful to help and boost local economy. So, Julian, if you don't mind, I'd like to save two minutes video clip about the banana smart village activities to the audience. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so much Dr. Feeney. Even I'm super excited about bananas now after seeing that. I have to come to Bali if the pandemic's over. I would love to. I would love to. And I'm sure everyone who's watching today would love to as well. Let's turn to some of the questions from the from the audience. Lisa, if I could direct this one to you please. There's a question from the audience about what are some great resources for highlighting the economic and business reasons to increase women's participation in STEM careers. And in your opening remarks, I think for those of us who are struggling to gain traction just using moral or ethical arguments for it. Do you have some suggestions? Yeah, I mean, there are there are tremendous number of organizations who have released reports on STEM and workforce. So I would, if you know for those things, certainly in Australia. There are links on our website women in stem.org.au. So that one is quite handy for, you know, a lot of information. The women in stem decadal plan as well the 10 year plan that's available on on the web and that's, again, got a lot of the research and links behind, you know, the justification for increasing participation in stem. There's lots of various workforce reports from from Australia, but I'm sure overseas in in in pretty much every nation people are working on this issue. So I would I would certainly encourage people to take a look at the women in stem ambassador website. And, you know, that there will be I'm sure a lot of a lot of books about, you know, workforce needs and, you know, a bit lighter reading, but certainly a lot of those sort of in depth reports available on the web to Thanks Lisa. There's a couple of questions coming through about, you know, how people get involved in learning about stem at different age groups. There's a question about resources available for adult learning. Also for younger people. Dr Fanny I know you do a lot in terms of education about your areas of research. Can you talk a little bit about how you engage what's the best way for people, whether they're at those older ages who might have a curiosity about stem or all the younger people that you've engaged with. Thank you Julian. So thank you for the question. Actually, yeah, I have an experience to build and also collaborate with other scientists in Indonesia and all around the world. This is from Indonesia we call it diaspora to make a forum, scientists forum. And I think it's the best way to encourage young generation and also other people from other field from stem is to promote through the forum. And the forum is made by scientists from a multidisciplinary field. So we usually conduct the workshop and also we also always conduct the I also say to Julie in the in the previous we also conduct as beside the workshop we also conduct like the science competition for the young generation so I think it's the good thing to promote and especially in Indonesia promote the stem for young generation. I think that's, yeah, that's my experience, June. Great. I have a question from the audience and Tagalima if it's okay I might direct this to you. There's a question from someone in the audience who said what is the most important point in your life that helped give you that extra push to follow your dreams. Okay, I guess for me, growing up in a family of 11 children. So, you know, and my mom being a role model she even when we were still in school, she still, you know, took courses. And so she became that person that we wanted to follow her like we just want it, you know, so for me, I guess it wasn't, I didn't really have like, you know, I had a dream job which was to become a doctor. So, you know, I was trying to follow my mom's footsteps to keep, you know, studying and you know, be educated and stuff. But so, I guess for me, the important, I think it was not an important point in life, but it's the important people in my life that actually pushed me and you know that was the extra push for me because my mom was the role model. My dad was the force behind us because he would be standing there like if you know if you don't do your homework like you know you get some. That's how it is in the someone like like you like you your dad or your mom will be like standing there do your homework this is wrong this is like you know they'll so he was the force behind mom was the role model. And so we just follow that in all steps or it for me it's the important people in my life that you know it wasn't a point in life it was just the supportive, the people my network, my supportive people around me. So yeah. Thank you, and it's great. Yeah, I think that's been a concurrent sort of theme throughout all of these is the importance of role models. And, you know, mentors as you say and be that you know from members of your family to, you know, teachers I mean I think it's really great to hear the various ways in which people are encouraged to reach those sort of fantastic heights that you all have in your various careers. I think we're coming close to conclusion. I did want to thank all of our panelists today. To Lisa to Tagalima and to Dr Feeney for your contributions thank you so much for the very unique perspectives that you shared from each of your countries. I know there were questions about where people could access today's recording and certainly I think what we will try and do is make sure the recording is put on the Twitter accounts, so the ambassador for general quality Twitter account. I'm sure Lisa would be happy to have it on hers as well. I did also want to thank the Australian government agencies that were involved in today in organizing today's discussions. Thanks to Questacon here in Australia for hosting this online event. If you are interested in further information to about opportunities to study in Australia, then there is additional information as well that's available on the DFAT website. I'm hoping that today's discussion really has been one that stimulates. Some of the discussions about the role of STEM in girls education. It may stimulate you thinking about how you might want to do a career changing to STEM yourself. I just would encourage you also to continue to discuss this with your networks. I mean obviously again the importance of networks has really come through in each of the panelists interventions today. I want to thank again the panelists for the fantastic work that they are doing to make all of our lives better. And to thank you in whatever part of the world you're watching this from for participating in today's discussion it's been really fantastic. Thank you everybody.