 That part is recorded. Okay, I'll stop recording now. Oh, okay. So, I mostly work with the COM OPS team, and I work on metrics related stuff. So, like, these are all the links. That's my Tash ID, that's the web page. You can check it out and connect with me on Twitter, LinkedIn, whatever. So, till now, for metrics, I've worked on analyzing Fedora data, FedMessage data, basically, to understand how people interact in IRC or how events like this conference or, like, force them impact your contribution activity and so on. So, it's some pretty exciting stuff. So, this talk will be about improving the contributor retention rate. So, we have a lot of newcomers coming to Fedora. Like, they join past groups. They ask in IRC, like, what should we do now and so on. But, I mean, not many of those get retained. Like, they don't become long-term contributors. They just drop off somewhere in between. So, we want to look at, like, improving those contribution, like, contributor retention rates and, like, what we can do that. So, since I work with metrics, I'll be looking at it from some sort of data perspective. And so, for that, I did some sort of survey also. So, we'll look at the results of that survey. And I also analyzed Fed message data of some, you could say, pretty successful and long-term contributors. So, I was hoping we could look at that. And then, in the end, we could have an open discussion about some important things. I mean, some important topics which came from the survey too or any questions you have or anything. So, these basically are the number of FAS accounts that were created. So, in 2012, it's pretty low because that's when the Fed message thing started and I gathered all the data. So, you could see that roughly every year, 5,000 new FAS accounts are created. But not all of these are for people who want to contribute to Fedora actually. So, some people, I think, just create the FAS account for posting questions and ask Fedora or something. So, yeah. So, I basically tried to divide them into number of contributors we were looking at by their activity. So, if the messages are not just about FAS account creation, then I basically classified them as contributors. So, this is like the year-wise distribution for short-term contributors, long-term contributors and those who are inactive. So, as you can probably see here, we have a lot of, you could say, orange thing which is short-term contributors. So, short-term contributors are basically those which came. They did some activity like they contributed a little to Fedora and then they left after three months. Long-term ones are those who stayed after three months. And inactive ones are just the ones who are not like, who just created the accounts and were not interested in contributing. So, does inactive in 2016 mean they've done nothing in calendar year 2016? Yeah, that's actually interesting because we had a lot of spammers in this year. So, that's why... I have a list of the spam of accounts that I can give you. So, that's why we have a lot of inactive contributors there. Yeah, so I think we can probably look at these things and talk with the ratio between... Yeah? How exactly is inactive measured in this, like not a single interaction? Yeah. So, it's basically like they have less than 10 Fed message count and they are mostly for fast like... So, in Fed message, we have topics for fast like, right? Fast, some create ID or update ID. So, if they are just those fast messages, then it's like inactive. And then there's another thing that... So, we also looked at the not category for Fedora badges. So, basically this is how I measured it. So, those inactive ones are not really contributing at all. They are just creating a fast account and updating it. They didn't, I mean, contribute to anything else. I mean, or if they did, it was not in one of the Fed message topics. But I think we have a pretty comprehensive list on Fed message. So, even if they attended at least one I actually meeting, it would be recorded in Fed message. What? Yeah, even that's their main message. And short-term ones are those who like contributed for less than three months. And long-term ones are those who have like three plus months activity. And even those who like contributed and then went away for a considerable period of time and then came back and joined and again contributed. So, if they stayed for a long time, I considered them in long term. So, for like three plus months, that's the criteria. So, yeah. So, what we can see is basically from this graph that even though like 5,000, something like about 5,000 accounts are created and only 20% of them become long-term users. So, the long-term ones are the long-term things. And only you can probably see like every time it's something about 1,000 in these years and not considered in 2016 because yesterday in 2016. So, you can probably see that it's something about 20 to 30%. So, it's a good ratio that one into five, like out of five newcomers who join us, like one stays and becomes a long-term contributor. That's pretty good for our community. But what's really interesting is that these orange people, there's a lot of them and they only contribute for three months and then they leave. So, that's about 50% of the people who join, which is quite a lot. So, I was trying to reduce these numbers of people who basically leave in three months because they're basically interested in contributing, right? So, why are they leaving? So, what are the steps and initiatives that have you taken in that direction? Do we have the data of, I mean, their fans and their mail ID or can we contact them and ask for the visa or not something like that? Yeah, so contacting them. I don't know if they would like when people contact them, like mailing them. So, out of five, even if one continues. So, out of five, even if one replies. No, out of five, one is already staying and becoming a long-term contributor. Then asking if we just question five people who are leaving. And if one of them would reply that there are many things that are of the reason, or whatever reason, please. So, will that be helpful for us? Can we look up to something like this or are we taking some other steps to, you know, get the reasons or retain them back? So, I haven't actually looked at what we are already doing and retaining them. But I don't think we are mailing them something like that. So, most people would consider it something like spamming, like why is Fedora constantly messaging me that come and join us. So, we wouldn't want them to feel like that. But I look at some measures like why are they leaving and what we could do to improve those things. So, that's what I might ask. So, you can find the actual numbers here. I have added the link. And yeah, 2016 was a lot about spammers. So, I did a survey of some Fedora contributors to understand like what made them stay here and contribute for a long time. So, I'm pretty sure like some of you have received my message about it. Like, do fill the survey. It's for my talk tomorrow and all that. So, yeah, so about 16 people who took part in the survey and they were pretty distributed. I mean, some of them are part of Red Hat now. But none of them were Red Hat employees when they began. And yeah, so they contribute to diverse areas like Infra, Comops, or diversity apps, docs, security, everything. So, I think it was a diverse group of people in general. And they all joined with the intention of contributing for a long time. So, that's pretty much the kind of people we are aiming at, right? So, yeah. And so, these are the people who took the survey and that's the length of contribution in now. So, as you can see, the blue thing is just like two people, I think, who stayed for... So, they have contributed currently for only less than three months. So, they are new covers. And the rest of it's like, they're pretty equally distributed. So, during the survey, we had people who had contributed from three months to one year, one year to three year and who have been contributing for more than three years now. Yeah. So, to look at what I saw. So, I basically asked them questions about the community. So, I asked them, like, what makes you contribute to Fedora? Is it the work you do, which you love? Or is it the community? Or is it a mixture of both? Or is there something else which I'm not looking at? I don't know. So, most of them said that it was a combination of work and community, which made them stay. And, yeah. So, and then, like, the blue thing is people who said that it was just the community which they loved and that's why they stayed here for a long time. So, yeah. So, as you can see that the positive environment and the good community really matters. So, yeah. And these are some, like, some people also find the other option and they talked about, like, the four Fedora foundations, freedom, future, friends first. And that's a sense of giving back and constant learning as the reasons which made them stay. But it was mostly, like, a mixture of work and community which made them stay. And then I also asked them to give ratings to how much, like, how good is the Fedora community? I mean, how much they like it? So, as you can see, like, most of them have waited five. Basically, it's excellent and one is, like, pretty bad. We don't like the community at all. So, as you can see, like, most of them have waited four or five. So, it seems like everybody likes the community. It's a good positive environment. There's one, three and have included in feedback. So, it's a good community in general. So, why are people not staying, right? They should stay. Yeah, and this is the feedback which I got, I mean, apart from the ratings. So, yeah. So, the ratings give a general positive overview, but these are some points which I think we should consider. So, and I think we should discuss this in the end, in the open discussion because, I mean, there are some interesting points here. Like, in the first one, we said, like, some individuals are working a lot more than others. We could probably discuss about steps. We should take to make it a more, like, homogeneous distribution of work in Fedora teams. And then the second thing which I think is really important is that how should, I mean, how should we scale the community at this moment to other countries which don't have much of a Fedora community or a small Fedora community? I think this would be a pretty good topic for discussion in the end. And the third thing which I really like, so it was, like, here the connections are made which are not just virtual and which actually feel like real connections because when we work in IRC, we don't actually see the other person, right? I mean, unless you're working in Red Hat and you're actually meeting other people, it's just all virtual for us. So it feels like real connections and that's where people actually stay. So I'll talk about this a bit later also. When I talk about how, like, Fedora events like this confidence or Falcon, like, affect us and impact our activity. So I think this is important. We'll look into this later. Yeah. So, like, you were saying, like, what measures should we take? What did I look at? So these are the three main things which I found. So I definitely found newcomers who speak up more in IRC meetings or on mailing lists. They tend to stay for a longer duration of time than, like, the others who are silent. So maybe we could encourage, like, people to speak up more in meetings because that's a good way to interact, right, and get opinions. And one thing which we could do was we could probably assign action items to them during the meeting, some small sort of stuff, like, initial, which you think, like, a newcomer could do. That would probably give them a sense of responsibility early on and then, like, make them actually feel a part of the whole team, like, they're actually contributing to the whole development process, made them stay. So the other thing which I would like to talk about is, like, a good feedback process. So sometimes it's just, like, you keep on contributing. You don't know what you are doing wrong. And you would, I think, you try to contact people and then, like, get more work, but you never really know where you're going wrong or if you're doing something wrong, what's really happening around, right? So I think a good feedback process is really important. I mean, newcomers don't actually contribute, I think, on huge, like, the most important part of the whole thing. I mean, they start small, right? But still, even when they start small, giving feedback to them is really important. And we have, like, good mechanisms, like IRC Karma, so, which we could use and Fedora badges, so we could encourage them more to collect badges, right? So from my experience, what I found and the pop-up thing was, like, when I joined Comox, we had this sort of onboarding badge series. It was not really defined much back then. I mean, I joined about a year ago. But to get started, I had to collect some badges and that gave me some sense of, like, sense of, like, yay, I was actually doing something and not really contributing, but you could say, like, yes, I was going ahead step by step. Like, it was a good start for me and it kept me motivated, it helped me keep track of all the things. So, yeah. I think that badges and, like, giving karma and IRC would be a good way for newcomers, like, to give them positive feedback in the whole thing. So another thing which I would like to talk about is interns. So we have a lot of intern programs. Here, I mean, the Red Hat interns, then the Fedora also participate in Outreachy and Google Summer of Code, GSOC. So just in here is a GSOC, I think, participant right now. And so these are some of the, I mean, Outreachy and GSOC are not really intern programs, but students contribute to it over the summer. So basically, what I'm talking about interns is that they get a good, like, foothold in contributing early on because they have assigned mentors and then they contribute for a long time. So they actually work with the project, right? A lot. So maybe... So we should probably make them stay because there are a lot of good examples, strong examples, like, who started early on as Red Hat interns and then they went to become on as long-term contributors. I personally know Mary Nordin is one of them. She started as Outreachy, I think, participant and then she is now working full on Fedora design badges and she's doing some really great work. Another thing which I would like to talk about is the onboarding process. So usually when newcomers join, they don't really know, like, what should I do? How should I start? So they keep posting these questions on IRC and people try to reply to them as much as possible but it's a bit tough, right? Maybe you'll start and initially tell them that, yeah, you should do this and then but you cannot mentor them step by step every time and you cannot do that to every person who wants to contribute, right? It becomes a bit tough when you're working. So maybe perhaps having a defined onboarding process for your team would be a great thing. So at Comox, we are trying to create a defined onboarding process for different teams so we have one already for Comox and then I think we have we are working on the modularity one and infra one already, yeah. So it basically involves like wiki gardening tasks and then getting some badges and all that for Comox but then it could be catered for your team according to the team's needs and what the initial tasks would be for the team. If you contribute to Fedora, you should come to the Comox workshop on Thursday and help us feedback about onboarding process for all your different sub-parts in Fedora. So we have a ticket regarding the onboarding series which you can see and definitely add your team to it and what you want to it. So yeah, this is just a screen shot just in created a ticket that says he's in there. So the Comox onboarding process is something like this. So you create an account and then you join the IRC and then there's a list of badges which you have to collect. They are just basic stuff like updating in your info in IRC or speaking up in a meeting or something like that wiki gardening which people can really do and newcomers can do it easily. And then you could probably write a post for Comblock, community block and publish it so that would be a good onboarding thing. And then design team also has one so it got cut in here but there were details about this about design team onboarding process too. So you can just basically see the ticket. I have added it in the link if you want to know. So these are some of the badges we are working on and we are also trying to create a general onboarding type of series for everyone. So it's a badge for like posting to mailing lists and becoming more interactive and more active on them. Then there's also one for because it reads and so on. So yeah. So that was one part of it. Now this is the second part where I looked at the activity of some pretty good peddler contributors like they have been contributing for a long time and they work like they contribute a lot. So I looked at about 10 or 20 of those so I haven't included all of these graphs in here. So these are basically the data record charts. So what I noticed was one of the important patterns was that so there was more consistency in that I mean activity rather than like contribution. So here the scale is a bit different. So this is not exactly zero in here. It's something like 100 or 200 or 1k and it's not zero here. So you cannot see on data record charts but there is some activity here. This just means that this is the lowest point in here. So you can see that it's pretty random that people are contributing more sometimes and they're contributing less sometimes but it never becomes zero for a long period of time. So I mean they are consistent even if they are not contributing like the most always. So that's something I think we should encourage like in new commerce that they say for a long period I mean for a long period they contribute like even though they are contributing not much just a little like doing some small stuff but I think yeah that's something we should look at like consistency should be valued more than just contributing a lot when they join. So this is what I was talking about earlier so I measured the impact of attending Fedora events so I I measured the impact of attending FOSTEM basically and not FLO so what I was trying to do was trying to measure like how many members were onboarded during FOSTEM and like how like attending FOSTEM affected the activity of Fedora contributors like did their activity increase or did it decrease of what happened. So I have published like a blog post about it on my blog here so that's the name like so I had some pretty good finding so I mean obviously apart from newcomer onboarding that you can do at such events and there are many people coming and like at FOSTEM like there are various booths so people come and join Fedora and say they are interested to contribute so I mean obviously onboard newcomers but apart from that if you are an existing like contributor so I saw jump like long term activities of contributors over a period of time I mean if they attended Fedora events like this what happened so this was basically for FOSTEM 2014 so I analyzed the short term and long term activity short term was basically just like a month before the event and then a month after the event so there was there were some jumps in the short term activity too but you could say that that was because of I mean they didn't work during FOSTEM or anything else but I think the long term activity one is pretty important so so these are basically the buckets these are like the message account for the user land this is like the number of users who were contributing in that in that region so the blue ones are before FOSTEM and the orange ones after FOSTEM what happened to them so as you can see like so here like so people from there is a decrease in the number of users here right so people are basically jumping so all these people I mean it's same here but all these there are some people who jumped from there from here so it I mean people could have jumped from this to this but oh are you trying to like are you understanding what I'm saying so yeah so how are you able to track from FOSTEM from FOSTEM specifically so I use the FOSTEM batch so I got user names from the FOSTEM batch and then I tracked their activity before so everybody make sure to get the bad for this company yeah would your data allow you to show for example where the missing less than 100 people actually landed because I mean I understand the conclusion in your drawing which is that everybody leaked buckets and we leveled out and pushed a bunch of people over 11 to the last one so are you curious if that's what happened or if that's just our conclusion yeah so so you want to know where the people are so you can theoretically tell me that Bob was in the less than 100 bucket before and by the end of your period after where he was in the less than 5000 yeah so I have a list of those users who jumped from say bucket 1 to bucket 2 or from bucket 3 to bucket 1 and so on and that I haven't published it on in the blog post but in the blog post I have quantified the numbers like for people who jumped from that was one of the parties yeah so it's all there in the blog post it's quite big so yeah basically a lot of people like they jump from here to here and that's what happened in first time like 2015 too so yeah if you attend a Fedora event it impacts your activity I don't know how or why but it does so you should attend as many events as possible probably yeah so that that was the last thing yeah so this is the last slide this is the summary so it's we found that like community matters like positive environment matters for you to stay so so you should probably I mean we have a good positive environment going on in Fedora so you should try to maintain that then having a defined onboarding series thing would be good lessen the work for everybody I think when newcomers join so it would probably help it would be easier for newcomers to I mean start working with the team too and also for people I mean I mean also for team members they don't have to interact with like every newcomer always like keeping a track of their progress probably this could be like a defined thing and then we should probably encourage interactions and create a good like feedback mechanism which we can help them with so that they probably get a sense of like their contribution like what they are doing and how they are doing it and how they can improve and individually we could say that attending Fedora events is good for your activity and you should engage more in mailing lists and IRC in meetings like you should encourage new covers also like engage more and that we should look for consistency more than just like having peaks in activity so this is it questions and yeah a big thanks to Sachin who helped me with metrics in some places with the on-boarding thing because yeah so he is basically a G-solve participant who is working on metrics and on-boarding in commerce questions, discussion hmm how about this evening on a smaller session focus only on this pondering part so when people get bored I come to some similar conclusions most interesting findings that we very likely get people who remain federal contributors from some places where community already exists like Red Hat in general either companies which use Fedoras or Red Hat or universities where there is already somebody from federal community because like we get the support from them and they get explained and they need something about the Fedora how it works I'm very afraid that this doesn't work for people who are really new guys for example they are allowing the town state whatever and doesn't have this help and if you create a festival and now I will focus only on those packages we have contributed Wikis and Sarabha packages and you assume Tech Trevill which can take days but not years and you are suddenly alone you don't know what to do because there is a lot of materials they say you can study the package guidelines and you can add it to Wikis but you all you see guidelines so long that even after 10 years I don't know I don't have those information in my mind right now and you try to edit Wikis and ok so I'm not waiting for Fedora guidelines I will try to edit that but I will find it's locked document the same for the front page so what I can do maybe can do something better for them and actively reach them those users like send them emails ok you are now already sponsored and you built your first package in Ohio so you now may learn about coding and there is a link for the wiki or probably some video or now we have the branching period what that means congratulations this is your first branching period and yeah so like the onboarding series like if we could have a defined process for the package maintenance it would be really good I mean like Amita was talking about earlier about sending mails to people who are not active anymore so I don't think it would work in all cases but it would surely work in this case where like you say they have to wait for a long period of time before a review or anything like happens so yeah that that's actually a good thing like if you send them mails and I think like publish a defined guideline for what they could do later on it would actually be a good thing so I think we could I mean at Comox we could look into this I mean after the onboarding series after we are done with that for the teams we could look for package maintenance first of all a big thanks for everything you have said and everything you have done there is a lot of value in all that and everything that the Comox team does but I am a bit afraid that we are trying to solve a social problem with technical solutions it's like solutionism I mean of course we could just have that message listening to all the users activities that we could automate this process look up what the user account was created this is your first launching window or you have done this, you have done that we could send out all the automated messages but in the end what really counts is personal contact when I joined Fedora over 10 years ago the groups I first joined were the packages and then the ambassadors those groups that had the sponsoring or mentoring process in place so that was not a coincidence it was these groups had the sponsoring whatever you call the process in place and these are the groups that you want to join you have one person that you can get in touch with for every question and so on I think we should rather focus on the personal side of sponsoring or whatever you call it rather than technical solutions, I think metrics and numbers and technical things are fine to give us an impression I think the numbers are really astonishing so many people dropping out I wouldn't have guessed that I have no idea why it is like that but the solution then is not a technical one but something that has to do with humans interacting I agree with this but sometimes it's like you need some figures to support your facts to take a decision like whether this thing is better or whether that thing is better you need some figures for that I think we could use data that way as a support system to encourage our mechanisms and to know whether to get feedback whether what we are doing is good or are we doing it somewhere are we going wrong someplace and like you said regarding the sponsorship thing I think this has been discussed quite a lot about one-on-one mentorship but I don't think it actually works in every team because it's not just that feasible in every team right I mean they are like a small number it certainly wouldn't work say in the know or in the servicing just because they don't have the manpower to have dedicated to mentors but for other teams I consider it important we have been trying to establish something like that but on the other hand I don't think that you can establish the same process throughout all groups the ambassadors have a very well-defined process it's a step-by-step pick-through wizard already on the other hand other groups have any information I think it should be more specific to the team but instead of one-on-one mentorship a defined set of guidelines would be good right at least for the beginning I mean and then you could like have some mentors if they stay like a group of mentors because one-on-one mentorship might work in small teams but not in large teams like suppose like there are a lot of people say ambassadors are the biggest group in the era and they have met one-on-one mentorship all the time so you sponsor other ambassadors right you need to get sponsored and become an ambassador most of the strictest process ever so the hurdle to join is very high but people can jump that high because of the good mentorship okay the ambassadors are by far the biggest group in the era so but but do you want to keep I mean like do you want that and like all teams would it be good to have that I mean if it works for them well my point was let's try to the decision what works for them should be on the they should define the process their process the process for whom they is different for who we and so on and co-ops should strive to support all these by providing data and so on I'm pretty sure that's what all you are working on it doesn't mean that we can establish the same model everywhere yeah who joined the career ambassadors you guys or in the long term that's the particular thing because the perception is some people are very strict, some sponsors are stricter than others they want the high hurdle but they don't accept anybody who hasn't been in a different group before like you have to have another group that has very strong opinions yes well then there are no differences too the Indian ambassadors have different guidelines than the rest of the ambassadors just because they have so many people applying from universities they require them to do something before they can become enough etc so they have so many regular differences there's differences between the teams and even differences between the sponsors one sponsor is more or a mentor is stricter than the other so I think there's no way to establish a common process yeah but again it's the personal contact that matters but if you don't have that personal contact you see it's really hard in ambassadors you do have even every time yeah but I think you are already for some time part of Fedora and if you are the guy who just created the Fedora account and you're oh ok I will do something in Fedora and suddenly within one week you don't want it ok so what I should do I should take a tribute and now I'm waiting so we agree that there needs to be more interaction between experienced members and less experienced members I think the key is rather that as someone who comes into the group you need to know what is expected so it shouldn't just a group should just let the things happen but you get to have a one on one you get to have different form processes it should be a transparent thing so a group should consciously decide and say this is what we expect this is how we think it should go and that is the guideline for people who want to join and it's the guideline for people who are in the group to make the behavioral system I think that's what you're looking for if you're new you can deal with a lot of things if you know what you have to deal with if you have to chase the information then the barrier is not higher so I think that's what we did in cockpit if someone comes in and has a question and we have to update those documents or have a discussion if the process doesn't work just make that transparent and conscious I think that's the most important part the process always changes and adapts say the group doubles in size for some reason then you have to change it then you have the quality and for that you have the metrics you have the personal aspects of course the people the people who are most active will define it for you the most in your meritocracy but if you make a conscious effort to talk about that maybe say every once in a while say do we need to update our process and still work for us or update as you go to join to make that information accessible I mean it depends on where you join if you are personal if someone goes to your recommended join that group and that's working then maybe you go to the fedora website and say ok how can I contribute then points to the previous what can I do for fedora so if you take those different avenues and then to count and make that information accessible and just care how would you track those users like how would they join how would you keep track of them why did they join so it would have to be something like a survey necessarily if it's a website and you have the information there is general information but if someone talks to you for example you can talk to them I would suggest to use email because if you use a website it's just another website and you have a bunch of them but you can probably anticipate what they will ask during the first year so we can not say them ok here is a type of information study all of them but we can say ok it's been 3 months since you joined fedora and now it's probably time to learn that we have 6 what is it because when you start you don't know that we have 6 that we have community operations that we have fedora infrastructure so you can say ok make some kind of education and prepare the plan now it's one week since you joined you should learn about this it's one month since you joined you should learn this it's one year since you joined you should learn this now you are educated please join something that can educate other people transfer so it has to be something you mentioned that there is a after the second third year of confusions that the third people leave third month not years after third month after third month so for me that's like disaster enjoying the project after the third if you leave the project after the third month there is something very wrong with the process I wouldn't necessarily say so of course I was surprised by the high number 2 but maybe it can be simply explained that they had the wrong expectations because the info to achieve in that particular group was not there so I think the way to narrow that down is that you probably don't want a survey because they are following them or so I think that's where well one I mean it should be easy to generate a list of all the people who came in after three months you could either do a survey with a you generated three months ago and for people who didn't see any message from you or something bad happened there was yes and it should have like you could fill out the survey and help us understand why you left we are trying to improve our process or you can contact this person really personally you need to have both ways survey alone won't help maybe a single email with a survey would be good but not like constant besturing did we analyse what the people did before they left like if the typical user leaving only had a few wiki edits it was probably a spammer but if he had tried it turns out it's always package maintainers leaving because they leave because the package review gets stalled then that's certainly something we need to analyse what they have done before I didn't analyse it team-wise but it would be a good topic which team is okay so I don't think that's still I don't think that's technical or communication I think that's a culture that should be a cultural element of the community that is broken and should be fixed if we start agreeing that there is an issue there after that we are also trying to understand that we might also find a solution about it but for me personally as I see because I'm not 10 years in college I'm much better than that that's very very sometimes there are a few people that are very negative which turn other people off and that is if the system whole system of the volunteers doesn't know anything about this negative elements that things that three months so in my opinion tomorrow I'm going to talk about this there is a sort of effort done on keeping as we mentioned your interpretation of having new people who are here and after that all this energy is lost because of the people in the project so in my opinion it's definitely a cultural issue of the community and it's not a general one it's a few people that are negative that this needs to be fixed if we want to be able to help totally agree with you thinking of a cultural issue for example let's get back to the example of the Indian ambassadors we had a lot of people signing up just to get a federal project of our email address and they called themselves federal ambassadors before they were approved because it looked good on their CV and that's why the requirements from the Indian ambassadors have become more strict so there's cultural differences and on the other hand I agree with the hostile or person issue it doesn't necessarily need to be hostile like offending or something there's also people who just get too too powerful to sit there on their control of a certain group and it's hard for you to get in and like you mentioned the topic of action items I know that from a community they had somebody who was just sitting there who was controlling their group their design group and whenever a new configure came up it was like oh no that's not how you approach new people actually it's just not to be to be fair it's not only of the Dora issue it's many other communities especially more communities that tend to be open and you both that you've seen in the last couple of years a decrease in hostility and increase in stability from the male in the west where the frequency had something to offer environment we tried really hard to remind people of the code of conduct and our friendship value in a way that we hadn't been sort of before kind of slow to make a change but I think I feel it's been positive I hope all the people are seeing that as well so I think that time is like up we are 10 minutes over yeah so we could discuss more about the onboarding thing like whether we should do mentorship or anything in Comox workshop so you should definitely have you have something about sponsoring and your talk is that does not have to be very active do you think about the works okay hi thank you very nice to meet you regarding the language we are going to be talking about mailing list so such a nice one so it's available you can use it anytime to gather data you can gather data and then you can get the category of data also and for a lot of people so it's on cloud I'll take a look I had no idea this is great and the stuff from my talk this morning the scripts that are running are on github and I'll point to you at them so you can look at those too right now it's killing github so I have to work with it yeah so take a picture of me so you can get a picture of me yeah three, two, one so I mean good are you happy with that awesome so I tried to do it before the vlog but it couldn't be done because he's so serious but from next year cool thank you very much I guess is it lunch now yeah I think so I'm good I'm hungry I shot some pictures of you so I have to pack it to share just thinking yeah this is good I think it's one of the best I've seen and it's oh oh this is also speaking in English aha maybe I just heard all on telegram no I don't think so because telegram is public so you can message privately on telegram aha just plan on one okay I'll use the telegram so I'm not familiar with the quality so I'll send you a private message on telegram okay but will it be full quality of the picture you can get the option to send a compressed version or send a false file when you drag and drop it or when you attach it to telegram I'll prompt you for that somebody show me how to do it how to send a private message okay I'll just send you a message and then so you actually just click on these users I don't know I'm using this so the name must be written down because I haven't seen it yes it's here and then you click on the message so this is just for now this is attachment so it's high yeah so to attach there's the attachment oh attachment multiple yeah okay did you like it yes I didn't stop the video so it recorded you need help Justin you need to help me to stop this I think what's up