 The next item of business is a member's business debate on motion 984, in the name of Liam Kerr, on increasing awareness of the work of veterans charities in Scotland, and this debate will be concluded without any questions being put. I could ask those members who wish to speak in the debate to press their request to speak buttons now in a column named Kerr to open the debate. Mr Kerr, please. I am very proud to bring forward this member's debate today, and I would like to thank all those from across the chamber who added their support to the motion, allowing us to debate and highlight an extremely important issue and the solutions offered by various charities. I would like to begin by welcoming all in the public gallery, particularly those from horseback UK, and thank them for coming to listen to what I am certain will be an informative and productive debate. Before we get to the challenges and solutions, tonight's debate gives us the opportunity to pay tribute to our armed forces and veterans community and recognise the immense contribution that service personnel have made to Scottish society, whether during service or afterwards. My motion then seeks to highlight the considerable challenges that are faced by some veterans who may require help for physical and or mental health problems. This is important. A UGov survey for SAFA, conducted in October 2017, shows the extent of problems faced by veterans. 33 per cent of former services personnel feel isolated or lonely due to mental or physical health issues. 34 per cent felt overwhelmed by negative feelings. 27 per cent admit to having suicidal thoughts after finishing military service. I also understand that only 60 per cent of working-age veterans are in work compared to 73 per cent of the UK population. Of course, it is not to say that all veterans will experience this, but we must acknowledge those statistics and ensure that our veterans who require assistance receive the very best advice and support as they readjust. That is where the vital work undertaken by veteran charities and organisations in Scotland comes in. I want to take this opportunity to highlight some of the outstanding work that they do. Approximately 320 armed forces charities operate in Scotland, providing a wide variety of services, including, but not limited to, health and wellbeing services, education, employment and career services, advice and advocacy services and housing provision. The scale and nature of those charities differs massively. There are the large nationally recognised organisations such as Poppy Scotland and the Royal British Legion Scotland. Poppy Scotland will no doubt want me to flag that they have launched the largest campaign ever outside the annual Poppy appeal to inspire groups, schools, businesses, clubs and organisations around the country to raise £1,918 or more this year. However, there are smaller but no less valuable organisations also playing a vital role in helping with the complex transition back on to Civvie Street, ensuring in the words of Wingsville warriors who work with wounded and medically discharged ex-service personnel to provide them with skills to be professional pilots, that veterans return to their communities as professionals to look up to, not to look after. Another who I am very pleased to have represented here today is Horseback UK. Co-founded by ex-marine Joc Hutchinson, whose work was recently highlighted by the Prime Minister no less, uses horsemanship to inspire recovery, regain self-esteem and provide a sense of purpose and community to the wounded, injured and sick of the military community. Learning to work with a horse is one of the most intricate and challenging things that anyone can do. The courses and voluntary programmes at Horseback UK give participants a place where they can learn new skills whilst overcoming any physical limitations and by taking a holistic approach aid mental and social recovery. The impact that this charity has had on the lives of those that they supported has been extraordinary. Talking of his own experience a Royal Marines Corporal said that the charity had started an important new chapter in his life and had shown him that there was still hope. The spouse of another stated, the effects have lasted longer than I expected them to. We had a few moments before he left when he would normally have gone into the darkness but much to my surprise and delight he was very chilled and relaxed. You can hear more at the reception that I am holding right after this in the burns room at CR1. That is why debates like those are so important. It gives us the opportunity to highlight those organisations that are going above and beyond but also to highlight what actually is out there. During the veterans and armed forces community debate in November, Richard Lochhead rightly highlighted the difficulties that some armed forces personnel may have in understanding what each of those organisations delivered. I wanted to highlight and welcome the work of the veterans gateway. Veterans gateway, many of whose team are veterans themselves, has the first point of contact to put veterans and their families in touch with the organisation's best place to help with the information, advice and support that they need, from healthcare and housing to employability, finances, personal relationships and more. Additionally, we as representatives have an important part to play. I am pleased to see both the Scottish Government and the UK Government proactively seeking to address this. In particular, I would like to welcome the UK Government's plans to introduce different driving licences for veterans. This is a scheme that could be implemented by the early 2020s and will be the first universally recognised ID for veterans in the UK, creating a new proof of service for veterans and ensuring that they have access to healthcare benefits among other things. This is important because I think that those who serve our country deserve recognition, and that should help. On which note, I would like to highlight the Royal British Legion and Poppy Scotland's Count the Min campaign. Despite an estimated 1 in 10 of the UK population being members of the armed forces community, there is limited information about where they are or what their needs might be. By adding new questions to the 2021 census, we should be able to improve our understanding of this unique community and ensure that the needs of our forces personnel, veterans and their families are fully met. I urge the Scottish Government to continue to look at ways in which we can highlight and support veterans, charities and groups, particularly those smaller ones, such as Horseback UK. Thank you, Liam Kerr, for bringing in the debate, because in my constituency it is something that is very close to my heart and the veterans that I work with. Will he join with me and encourage his colleagues in the chamber to look at the ASAP project? It was piloted in Hamilton and rolled out to the rest of Scotland and for local members to make connections with our local ASAP project, which is a project between Poppy Scotland and Scottish Advice Scotland, in order to ensure that they know that they are signposting the veterans that they work with to the right people. You get additional time, Mr Kerr. Liam Kerr. That is fine. That is a very important point. I thank the member for the intervention. The answer is yes. Without organisations such as Horseback UK, the cost and impact on our local services and local authorities could be great, and the negative impact on the veterans is even greater. The positives that arise to society, individuals and the economy as a result of the work are considerable. I genuinely thank the members who are in the chamber this evening for coming together to discuss the important matter. I hope that some of you will be able to join me at the event that I am sponsoring with Horseback UK in the Burns room after the debate. I thank Liam Kerr for bringing this important motion for debate to highlight the work that veterans organisations do. Only yesterday we celebrated 100 years since the representation of the People Act, which gave many women the right to vote for the first time. According to a tweet by Poppy Scotland yesterday, one of the main reasons that this was made possible and supported by the public and some of the establishment was due to the contribution women made to society during the First World War. The First World War will also be commemorating 100-year anniversary in November this year, and it changed the UK forever. The effect it had on those who served and their families is immeasurable. Over 6 million men served in the war, three quarters of a million never returned home, including my great-grandmother's brother, who died at the Battle of the Somme. 1.75 million suffered some kind of disability, and millions more could not find work on their return from the front. To care for those who suffered whether through their own service or through that of a family member, the British Legion, as it was then known, was formed to support them. To this day, Scotland still has a large and vibrant armed forces community, including reservists, regular personnel and their families, with estimates showing that the community encompasses over half a million people. In a previous member's debate, I spoke about the many veterans who have been supported and cared for at Erskine hospital and the dedication of the staff there who have worked there for the past 101 years. The impact and effect war continues to have on our forces and their families is substantial. Therefore, the support from our veterans charities and organisations is still as crucial today as ever. One of my Blantyre constituents, David, has had support from both the British Legion and the National Gulf Veterans and Families Association. David served in the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards and was stationed in Germany prior to the First Gulf War. In late 1990, David received multiple injections all at the same time in preparation for possible deployment to the Gulf. As it turned out, he was not deployed but has suffered from ill health since. David left the army in May 1992 and suffers from a combination of health issues, including impaired mobility, that he believes are directly attributable to those injections. The problem is that David and many other veterans have never found out the exact cocktail of vaccines that they were given. As the MOD says, his medical records are missing and the army initially denied that any such injections took place. However, certain declassified documents indicate that these vaccines may have contained strains of anthrax and botulism. The lack of transparency by the MOD in this issue inhibits civilian doctors from giving an accurate diagnosis and treatment for the health issues such veterans continue to experience. More than anything, David simply wants an acknowledgement that the injections took place and the information on what he was injected with, as he believes that that will inform his on-going treatment. The National Gulf Veterans and Families Association has provided David with advice and support, but it is limited in what it can do in this instance. It would be helpful to them and to the good work that they continue to do for David and hundreds of other veterans in Scotland if the MOD was less retentive about medical information that it holds. That would be helpful in improving veterans' quality of life. Since the First World War through to the Gulf War and beyond, successive Governments have let down too many of our veterans and their families. Being thrust into the new civilian life or families left to deal with the loss of loved ones is too often too difficult for someone to deal with alone. We can dispute the merits of going to a particular war, as to whether troops should be deployed or not and to dispute who our allies should be. However, what we cannot dispute is that our veterans, charities and organisations are very often left covering gaps in support that the Government should be offering. We all owe a great debt to our armed forces and their families who have sacrificed so much for us and to the veterans, charities and organisations that endeavour to support them. However, it is the UK Government that must step up and protect our men and women who go to war and protect us. I thank Liam Kerr for bringing this motion to the Parliament and for allowing us to debate this important subject. At the outset, I ought to declare that I am officially a veteran, although I do not like to consider that as an entirely appropriate label. Why? The word veteran comes from a Latin word, which means old, and I do not consider that I am old. I am going to part that comment because my children continually tell me that I am old, and what I would like to do is to look at what veterans' charities achieve, and a particularly horseback UK. I spent two years of my career in the services undertaking mounted ceremonial duties in London. I have to confess that when I was posted to London to do this, I was not keen. In fact, I was sent screaming and kicking to Knightsbridge. When I started, I subscribed to the old adage about horses that bite at one end and kick at the other. I would have added at that stage that the bit in the middle tried very hard to ensure that you landed in the line of fire of the kicking bit or the biting bit. Twenty-four weeks of riding school taught me something different. I joined a ride of young soldiers, most of whom had never touched a horse, let alone ridden one. Most lacked confidence in their abilities and questioned the wisdom of ever having joined a regiment that actually had to ride horses. Within a week of finishing our course, we all rode on the Queen's birthday parade, and that was quite an achievement for young soldiers. During those twenty-four weeks, we learned a lot about island, and we all learned a lot about horses. I saw young soldiers maturing and gaining a confidence in their ability that they never had before. Those that did particularly well were those who came to trust the horses and build an empathy with them, working together and trusting each other. That is what I understand horseback UK as about building confidence, self-esteem and a bond of resilience that is not questioned, just accepted. Let me be clear that horses are not stupid, but they look to their human counterparts for a lead. They do not judge those human counterparts on their physical stature. They judge them on how they are treated. For service women, adults and children who lack confidence, horses provide a vehicle to rebuild a faith in their inner being. Horses are also not solitary animals and neither are humans. Both need a community, and I recognise the importance of a community within veterans. I served in much more peaceful times than many younger, recently discharged veterans have. However, I suspect that many soldiers have probably seen things that they would rather not have done. Sometimes, being with friends and colleagues who do not need to ask any questions in an unspoken understanding of what has gone on before is a very important kind of therapy. I like to finish by saying that there are many veterans charities and I wish them all well. I actually believe that those independent charities can do much more than government charities who are often bound by regulations. The independence of those charities give them the ability to invest as they see fit and make our veterans charities the envy of the world. What we all need to do is to remember that, to keep their independence, they need our help, and that we should give them freely. I thank Liam Kerr for bringing the debate to the chamber and for highlighting the important work that has been done by horseback UK and veterans charities across Scotland. I pay tribute, like others have, across the chamber to the work of those charities and thank them for all that they do. As you all know, the majority of my involvement with the armed forces stems from Her Majesty's naval base Clyde at Faslane in my constituency. There is a significant number of both serving men, women and veterans who live in my constituency with their families. I know how incredibly important it is for them to be supported throughout their careers and, indeed, when they retire. As Liam Kerr's motion highlights, there is a stigma surrounding seeking help for physical or mental health problems in the veterans community. The support of charities, like the ones that I will mention, allow veterans to live a full and independent life after leaving the forces. Let me start by talking about a charity that we all know well, which is SAFA, the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Families Association. They aim to ensure that the needs of our armed forces and our veterans are met, and they have independence and dignity after they leave the service. I know that they provide a range of very valuable support for a person's physical needs and mental well-being, and it is hugely practical support for veterans and their families. They work throughout the UK, and I am blessed to have them operating in my area. At this point, I would like to give a huge shout-out to Mary Birch, because she is the divisional secretary of my local SAFA. Aside from being enormously helpful and sympathetic, she is tireless in her fundraising, in support of organisations such as Erskine and the Skylark Trust. However, I have referred constituents to SAFA when they are struggling to receive help elsewhere. Let me tell you about a veteran's widow, who is struggling to get in and out of the bath. She needed adaptations to her bathroom. The council was unable and, indeed, unwilling to help, but SAFA stepped in. They funded adaptations to her bathroom to allow a shower to be fitted. That let her maintain her independence and continue living in her own home. That is a very real example of the service that charities like SAFA provide for armed forces families. That kind of practical lifelong support, not only for the veterans themselves, but for their families, too, is just so helpful. Another prominent veterans charity in my constituency is the Armed Forces Veterans Association. Their office is unusually based at Dumbarton Central train station. Given the infrequency of the trains, they can spend useful time there, because they have also developed a museum of military artefacts. I encourage colleagues to visit. However, they provide information and advice for military veterans, and a counselling service is also available. They are open every weekday for people just to pop in, have a chat and a cup of tea, and they are supported by volunteers who can continue to be part of the forces community after they finish their service. I have first-hand experience of just how important their service is in helping veterans, perhaps dealing with PTSD, to access health and housing provision and have worked with them to help veterans in very practical ways. The work done by veterans charities in my constituency right the way across the UK is invaluable. It is right that veterans who have served their country deserve our thanks, our recognition and our support, but there is still more to be done. We must ensure that veterans get access to the right support at the right time. I encourage all members in the chamber to find out information about their veterans charities in their local area. As MSPs, we can play an important role in raising awareness of veterans charities in our patch and right the way across Scotland to ensure that everybody does, in fact, receive the support that they need and deserve. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I, like others, would like to thank Liam Kerr for bringing that motion forward for debate tonight. Before I go any further, I should say that I am a veteran myself, having served some 15 years in the army, both at home and abroad, with another 17 years reserve liability. Although I left the army back in 1994 before the term veteran became the accepted terminology for ex-service personnel, I suppose that I have the same feelings as Edward Mountain has about the term veteran. It is really important to increase the awareness of the work of so many veteran charities across Scotland. They do a really good job and, in a moment, I want to highlight the work of Age Scotland's veteran project, particularly in the north-east. However, before I do that, I need to say how disappointed I am to see the withdrawal of the veteran first point service in Grampian, which occurred last year. The veteran first point service closed simply because, even with the Scottish Government offering to meet 50 per cent of the funding, Grampian NHS could not find the cash to enable the specialist service to continue. I have repeatedly raised the fact that Grampian NHS has been consistently underfunded over many years, and certainly over the last nine years, by some £165 million. The board believed that it had no option but to decline funding for this important veteran service. However, tonight, I do not want to focus on the negative, as I want to be positive about this issue. I know that Age Scotland has stepped into the breach with help. It is active in the north-east with the community development officer, and the aim is to ensure that veterans aged over 65 get the help that they need when they need it. I want to emphasise that it does not matter how long ago an individual served their country or for what period they served, you can get help and advice from the Age Scotland veteran project. Their helpline is now a gateway to a range of veteran support organisations and projects, and, if they cannot help an individual or family themselves, they make sure that someone else does help. I know that time is short this evening, Presiding Officer, especially after we extended decision times, so I will end my contribution to this debate by saying once again congratulations to Liam Kerr for securing the debate. The debates like this are important, and I do hope that the Age Scotland veteran project continues to be a success, especially for veterans in my patch in the north-east who need the help and advice that is provided by them. Thank you, Mr Rumbles. I call Graeme Dey to be followed by Maurice Corry, Mr Dey, please. I thank Liam Kerr for lodging the motion, particularly where it focuses on horseback UK, a charity that is undertaking excellent work supporting our service personnel and veterans. It is an organisation that I know something of, certainly the fundraising aspect of, even though it is not based on my constituency. Not long after being elected to Holyrood, I was asked to officiate in a cycle ride around Arbroath that was being held to raise funds for horseback UK. There, I met Jock Hutchison, the CEO and co-founder for the first time. Jock tends to leave a bit of an impression on folk when they meet him, but my abiding memory that day was not Jock with his cowboy hat and a larger-than-life persona, but chatting to some of the severely wounded veterans who benefited from the charity's work. It was a genuinely heartwarming experience. The invitation to welcome the cyclist across the finishing line came from Ian Wren, who was a volunteer fundraiser at the time. Ian has since taken retirement from his work and assumed the role of horseback's fundraising manager. He is a constituent of mine, and along with his wife, Bev, is a well-kind face at community events where he flies the flag for the charity. He is something of a force of nature. Ian is also one of my Facebook friends, and it would be fair to say that he posts us regularly about his fundraising activity as Murdo Fraser takes the Twitter on the wind-up. However, just as charities and causes need something that sets them apart from the crowd, so, to be successful, they need committed fundraisers like Ian. I pay tribute to him for all that he does on behalf of Horseback UK. There is another Angus South connection with Horseback UK. Jock Hutchison previously served at R.M. Condor on her road, a base that I know is close to the heart of the cabinet secretary. In 2008, when the idea for horseback came about, it was a particularly traumatic year for 4.5 commando. It was in a recently completed tour of Afghanistan. They had lost nine of their own in combat, with a further 16 marines suffering life-changing injuries. Jock and Emma Hutchison offered the farm at a buoy in the somewhere that the injured marines could visit for a break away from clinical recovery. Over the following 12 months, several groups took advantage of their hospitality. Although horseback's work has spread much further than the north-east of Scotland, as a constituency MSP for Condor, I want to highlight some of the support that the organisation has provided to those who have served with 4.5 commando. Lance Corporal Jason Hare, who is now the organisation's operations manager, was previously based in Abrol. Jason served for 14 years, including undertaking three tours of Afghanistan. In 2008, he was severely injured whilst on patrol in Helmand after triggering a land mine. Following extended treatment, he returned to his unit to continue his rehab and transition into civilian life. It was whilst there in 2010 that he became aware of horseback at UK and joined colleagues on a visit. He believes that the activities that horseback at UK give participants provide not only an insight into horsemanship and rural activity, but also potential careers, as they braised themselves to transition back into civilian life. He describes the organisation as having given him and many others, and I quote, a renewed spark and enthusiasm for life. Another R.N. Condor beneficiary of horseback at UK, Corporal Matthew Turnbull, says of it that it shows that there is still hope in life. He notes that the charity's work is valued not just by him but also by his family. That is an aspect of horseback's impact that we should not forget. As the recovery of injured personnel progresses, so too can distress an emotional toll carried by wider family ease. There can be no praise high enough for the work that the charity does. The positive benefit brings to the lives of injured service personnel. I am pleased to have had the opportunity tonight to join others in recognising that. I thank Liam Kerr for bringing this very important debate tonight to the chamber, and I always welcome the opportunity to speak on veterans' issues in this Parliament. Additionally, I want to take the opportunity to thank Horseback UK for the work that they do for our wonderful veterans. Liam Kerr gave a great description of the work and the benefits that it brings to veterans in areas such as building up their confidence and self-belief. I would also like to draw attention to what Claire Hockey was saying. I am very, very interested in what she said in relation to our service personnel who were involved in Gull 4 1 and the question of the vaccinations. This is something that is very much on my mind at the moment, and we are hearing more about it. I fully support the point that you make. I would like to discuss that you are sometimes chairman of the cross-party group, as we might take this forward. No doubt, the minister will probably address this issue later on. It is a very big problem, and we need to get to the bottom of it. As Liam Kerr's motion notes that the veterans' charities are important and can be a difficult area to work in, he also pointed out that there are at least 320 groups in Scotland who deal with it. Some of the groups deal with over 200 cases a month in dealing with veterans in lieu of support from local authorities. I have had conversations with several of those charities and they tell me that they struggle from month to month with finance to provide this support. It is important that we support them as they provide a high level of individual health care that could not be replicated by the public sector, but it is delivered by them and is so desperately needed for our veterans. In conclusion, on 16 November last year, I called on the Scottish Government to see what could be done to provide financial support to those charities who deal with those costs. I hope that the cabinet secretary will be able to update the chamber on what the progress has been made in relation to my request in November last year and what has been made so far. I would like to be given by joining colleagues in thanking Liam Kerr for securing the debate this evening. I would also like to join colleagues in paying tribute and recognising the tremendous contribution that our forces community has made, both in service and as veterans. I have to confess that I had only first come across Hospark UK, I believe that it was in a debate that we had in November when Liam Kerr mentioned it. I believe that he began to tell us an anecdote and kept us in suspense, which I think that we are still waiting for later. Unfortunately, I am unable to make it along to the reception this evening, but I wish him all the best for it. I am really struck by some of the comments that have been made. I think that Edward Mountain, who spoke of horsecraft and engaging with the animal, has been able to rebuild faith in our being. I think that that is a very powerful way, certainly, to describe it. A colleague mentioned earlier about the forces when the return has been professions to look up to and not to look after. There is something about reading and learning about the work of Hospark UK, which seems absolutely incredible and incredibly empowering. One of the aspects of the work that is being struck by is that veterans who come along to use the service can end up engaging and working with Hospark UK. It is tremendous to see the empowering nature of the opportunities that are provided. The services that I understand are now providing to the wider community. On the website, it describes children who are social or academically marginalised. That speaks to the tremendous contribution that our veterans and forces community makes more widely across Scotland and in various communities. As an MSP in Renfisher, we have Erskine nearby, which has been mentioned already. We also have a newly opened Warblinded Centre at Hockhead. Erskine is a tremendous feature for people's lives across the west of Scotland, and it has fantastic links with the local community. I recall as someone who is musically engaged throughout high school every Christmas having the opportunity to go out and perform for veterans in Erskine. That was a great honour and a great privilege that many students saw. It speaks to the great partnership between veterans charities and the wider communities in the areas that they serve. I commend Erskine on her recently published strategy, which recognises some of the challenges that are faced. It is very ambitious in adapting to the needs and demands of the veterans community. I also want to recognise the fantastic Scottish Warblinded Centre, which opened at Hockhead in my colleague George Adam's constituency of Paisley. It is a fantastic centre that provides advice on the use of specialist equipment, financial support and helping people to increase their confidence in independent living. I now have overfair to staff, some of whom are from my own constituency of Renfrewshire South, and having spoken with them, I know how much they value the opportunity and chance to work there and recognise tremendous work that goes on at the Hockhead Centre. I thank Liam Kerr for bringing this important debate to the Parliament. It is also great to debate this in February, and I hope that we have more opportunities not just around remembering Sunday to be recognised in the fantastic contribution that we hope for veterans charities and our veterans community makes to Scotland. I thank Liam Kerr for bringing this worthwhile and interesting debate. I, for my part and the Scottish Government's part, are always very keen to increase awareness and champion the valuable work that veterans charities do throughout Scotland. Liam Kerr's efforts are doing precisely that as well as the reception, which I will mention again just for advertising purposes, which takes place immediately after this debate. It is true to say that the third sector in Scotland is strong and dynamic, and it plays a crucial role in the wellbeing of our communities. We are very fortunate to have a good mix of people and organisations within the veterans community here in Scotland who are making a real difference. We do, and I am told this by people who are very active outwith Scotland, have the real advantage of scale, a very close-knit sector, a fact noted by forces in mind trust in the armed forces charity sector in Scotland report in 2016. I continue to be grateful to all the charities, a number of whom have been mentioned tonight, organisations such as Veteran Scotland, Poppy Scotland, Legion Scotland, Erskine, Scottish Veterans Residences, one of which is just across from this Parliament, Combat Stress and many others who work very hard to bring everyone together and to make sure that support is there for those who need it most. If I can just pick up on one or two of the points made by members, first of all, Graham Day's point about the impact and the offer that was made by horseback UK to the Marines that he spoke about that had come back from Afghanistan with what is called quite chillingly life-changing injuries. In my experience, having visited horseback UK, it really is the case that sometimes horseback UK is able to reach out to those veterans in a way that other charities, other organisations have not been able to do. Actually, it is something very odd in a way, something very surprising when you visit horseback UK to find that relationship in terms of dealing with a horse. The way in which it can change people is quite extraordinary. It was something that I have to confess that I was not aware of before visiting horseback UK. Also, just to mention one or two other points made by members, Jackie Bailey mentioned the Dunbarton train station veteran centre, which I have visited. I can tell you that the train service was excellent that day, as was the coffee and the reception from the veterans that were there. I think that the very substantive point that was made by Claire Houghey is very important. I am glad that Maurice Corry has picked up on this as well. Not so much the issue, which is very important in its own right about the cocktail of drugs that were given to veterans or service personnel going to Iraq and Afghanistan, but about the point that Claire Houghey made about the MOD being very retentive on health records. I have made this point repeatedly to UK ministers. If they can facilitate the passing on of complete health records from somebody's service period to a GP or the health service, then it can make so much difference. Is that the reason that Claire Houghey mentioned that physicians can take a much more balanced and rounded and informed approach if they are aware of the history of somebody's medical history during their time in service? Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I thank the cabinet secretary for taking the intervention. On the point of medical records and Claire Houghey's point about veterans needing that support, will the cabinet secretary join me in not being surprised about me raising this in this debate, that it is for once and for all that the UK Government should take responsibility for the men who were used in nuclear testing sites in Christmas Island and give them their medical records and give them their compensation? As a point that the member has raised before, of course, she is met with those veterans, as I have done. The same point applies. Anybody who has served in the forces surely has a right to have their medical records available to them, of course, as we have the right to do as civilians, but also, much more importantly sometimes, is that the people who are looking after them in a medical sense also have access to those records. I think that that is a relatively uncontentious point. Progress has been made south of the border. The latest excuse that I got when using it with the UK minister was to do with the different computer systems and IT systems in Scotland. That is not sufficient. We should be moving on that much more quickly. As Christina McKelvie has intervened, her intervention in relation to ASAP is again a tremendous charity, but it has a very different impact from, say, horseback UK. In particular, veterans who want to try to access and are perfectly entitled to a series of benefits that they are not aware of have been absolutely transformed in their situations by the advice that is given by ASAP. I am lucky in my constituency, or just outside it, rather, to have the benefits of an ASAP office co-located with citizens advice in one particular individual who has changed the lives of many veterans. It is extremely important that we mention those. Mike Rumbles' point is raised before about the health service. I made that point in a recent meeting with Maurice Corry. The Scottish Government gets not one single penny to fund anything that we do for veterans in Scotland. We do not receive anything in terms of the block grant. We want to spend money on veterans because we think that it is important, so whether it is the millions that went to combat stress, the millions that have gone in terms of providing housing, not least in Cranhill and Glasgow, whether it is the veterans fund that I will mention shortly, we spend this money because we think that veterans are a priority. I think that there is a role for the UK Government, not just in relation to Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland, to say that we have taken on those people in the first place. We have an enduring responsibility, and that should be recognised in the block grant. We could do so much more if that was possible. Mike Rumbles? I hope that the minister recognises that I made the point that the Scottish Government offered a 50 per cent cash payment to the health board, as well as the health board that would not take it up. I do not doubt his personal commitment to veterans in Scotland, but I want to make it clear that I said that and acknowledged that. I do acknowledge that, but the point that I am trying to make is that, in relation to things that we want to do specifically for veterans—of course, veterans' first point had an element of that, not least in the peer-to-peer support that was available beyond the health services—we have to find this money from other budgets, from education and other budgets. I just think that there is a case to be made for saying that the UK Government, given where the service has been rendered, has a responsibility here. Horseback UK, as I said, has visited there some years ago now. I had the privilege of visiting in 2012 to see the work that it does. After traumatic injuries, service personnel and veterans can feel isolated and their confidence can be affected, Horseback UK has helped more than 1,000 individuals over the past decade. I recognise that recovery is very often more than a clinical process. People need to help to regain self-belief after injury. We heard from Edward Mountain how horses can actually provide that route back to increased self-belief. They also empower the injured to help others, Horseback UK, by creating a purpose and a community for recovery. The Scottish Government, for our part, has been able to directly support Horseback UK and other charities and organisations that help veterans and their families through the Scottish Veterans Fund. Through that fund, we have invested in more than 140 projects in areas such as housing, healthcare and other services. Over £1 million has been awarded through the fund to organisations working to support the veterans community and the services charities since its creation in 2008. One of the reasons that we created the Veterans Fund was because there is a report done by the House of Commons health committee in 2007, which was pretty damning of the provision for veterans in Scotland, not least through the health service. That is one reason why we have sought to improve matters there. The panel met last week to review applications that were made to the Scottish Veterans Fund for the 2018 round of applications. Funding awarded will be announced in the coming weeks, and I have to say that, unlike previous years, apart from last year, I am no longer the person responsible for proposing which funds should benefit from that. That is done now by the Veterans Commissioner and others. More broadly, it is quickly in relation to health. The Government continues to be committed to ensuring that all armed forces personnel and veterans living in Scotland have access to the best possible care and support, including safe, effective and patient-centred healthcare. We are also fortunate to have outstanding public and third sector organisations that look after our veterans and, very often, as Jackie Baillie rightly said, in relation to the families of veterans. For example, a network of champions for armed forces and veterans are there to support armed forces personnel, veterans and their families, to get access to the high-quality services and treatment when they are required. That is arguably, and I make this point unashamedly, more effective here in Scotland than elsewhere in the UK. That is something that I am fed back from those organisations that are active across the UK. They are very complimentary of the things that we are doing, although I am always acknowledging that there is more that we can do. The Scottish Veterans Commissioner is also looking at veterans' health and wellbeing. His interim report on veterans' health and wellbeing in Scotland, Are We Getting It Right, was published last year and positively concluded that veterans are not experiencing disadvantage in health and social care provision in Scotland. That might seem odd language, but the reason that we do that is that there is a consensus within the veterans community that it seems to me that what governments and other agencies should try to do is make sure that there is no disadvantage rather than provide an advantage. We do that in some circumstances, not least in relation to prosthetics and other very expensive items. We make sure that there is an advantage to veterans, and I think that that is right. By and large, what we try to do is make sure that there is no disadvantage. Why should you be disadvantaged just because you have served in the armed forces? I look forward to the commissioner's next report, which is due to be published in the spring. The report will look at the physical and mental health of veterans in Scotland and improving health outcomes for all veterans and families. We will carefully consider his recommendations. Mental health continues rightly to be an area of key focus for the veterans community. We all have a responsibility to help to realise the vision that we have of a Scotland where people can get the right help at the right time. Of course, I am well aware that the Government has a very special responsibility in that regard. People should be able to expect recovery and to fully enjoy their rights free from discrimination and stigma. An increased investment to support delivery of our national mental health strategy will help to drive that improvement. We should also recognise the priority that we attach to that. I mentioned that we have supported combat stress in partnership with NHS Scotland to deliver specialist and community-based mental health services to veterans in Scotland in total over £8.5 million has been provided since 2012. The vast majority—I think that that was the point that was made early on in the debate, and I forget who it was that made it—apologies for that. The vast majority of our armed forces' personnel transition to be real contributors to our society is one of the areas that I most frequently agree with Tobias Elwidge, who is one of the MOD ministers. The vast majority of veterans transition to society without any issue. For many, the very fact of having responsibility for their health, for housing and for a job is the scariest thing that they will ever have done, and that can provide real challenges. They need to have support from us in terms of mental health or physical challenges. Our armed forces and veterans charitable sector, which Horstbank UK is a vital part of, offer a strong and effective network of help. I would like to reiterate finally my appreciation and commitment to continue to work closely with all of our partner charities and organisations to further support for our veterans community moving forward. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Thank you. That concludes the debate and I close this meeting.