 Monty, let's get started You think so gosh, I'm much louder than you are. That's I guess normal No, I'm always louder than you are Hello and welcome everyone to Monty and Terry's cocktail hour But this will be a casual discussion between Monty and me, but you're all welcome to attend The reason why Monty is here because he had the original idea for the big 10 at least a name and And the reason what I'm here is that I term that I mean I work to turn that idea into Implementation so we are probably the two people that are to blame for it Yeah, this is this is sort of the normal way that it works I I toss a half baked idea over a wall somewhere and expect somebody to clean up my mess So thanks. Thanks, Terry. So we're we're one year into the big 10 governance change now and Maybe we should take like one minute to expand what it is because it's still confusing to a lot of people Yes, what is it? And so I would summarize it as Redefining what we call an open stack project Previously we used a top-to-bottom approach We kind of tried to spot the important project and make them official But that created all sorts of issues the most obvious issues is that it creates a cat catch 22 between Being important and being official because you had to be important to be official but to actually be official you had to Kind of become important and and that created all sorts of issues So we moved to a bottom-up approach which is to define what the open stack community is What it stands for what are the processes it follows? What is its mission and then consider that whatever is produced by that group in in pursuit of that mission is By definition an open stack project Yeah, a way to a way that I often Say it to people is that we we we changed We changed what we're what we're defining from being what? What open stack is to to who open stack is we collectively are open stack so by definition Whatever it is we do whatever software we the people who are open stack produce is is necessarily then at a It is it is an open stack project Regardless of how ridiculously named it might be or or whatnot and obviously it's a more inclusive Definition so that means we have an influx of new projects and that created the need to also describe better what it is We actually produce so at the same time we came up with this redefinition of What is an open stack project? We also introduced the concept of tags Which are units of information we can attach to projects to describe their position in the ecosystem Their degree of maturity how is it it's to consume them how diverse the community that is Producing the project is etc etc. Yeah, this is a this is an important thing So the the catch 22 that the theory was talking about it just a couple seconds ago Had us in this position where we we we had a process to put a thing in like into this incubation stage but But oftentimes Deployers weren't really interested in deploying things that were that were in the sort of bucket of not quite ready And so we didn't really have a good way to get a project it turns out when you start a project It's not ready like that's just life No matter who you are or what your intentions are or how it's gonna go And so we just didn't have a way to work on Things to get them to the point where they were ready so that we could say oh, yeah This is actually we've worked on this for three years now, and actually it's pretty good now We we had this problem where we were needing to bless something Too early in its in its technical development, right? Oh, yeah Well, we definitely want one of these so this one this one seems great We're gonna accept it into the into the fold and and we're all going to love it and say it's great And then people come by like that project sucks and we're like well, of course it sucks It just started six months ago. Like what are you expecting from it? But that that was because of those this allows us a way to actually Work on things and recognize the people that are working on them as as doing important work, right? Like they're they're doing things that we're all gonna interact with but not necessarily to have to start from a Yep This one is finished in production ready, and we're now going to add it to the open stack project You know, it's it's sort of a card for the horse thing So what happened during that last year? This is the effect on the number of project teams Release to release so the graph shows Horizontal project teams what we call horizontal project teams are teams that are working on multiple projects. So QA infrastructure Release management security, etc. Where our vertical projects are specific projects like neutron nova cinder etc and This is not the first time we change the governance by the way Maybe maybe you weren't in the earlier years of open stack, but you can see here in Falsum we actually recognize that working on an horizontal project is actually a good thing So that's when we actually said well infrastructure is kind of an important piece for us And and we should recognize whoever is working on that as open stack community And so that create a surge around around the Falsum area Then here Monty had another of his ideas And that stuff happened programs The idea was we should we should bless the the goal of a project rather than the project itself And that created a space for additional repositories to be created We had a governance problem there Which is that everything was structured on a git repository, right? And it turns out that some things you might want to do might want to live in more than one git repository But it was it was creating a really strange like we we had the longest the hardest time figuring out how to deal with with Python nova client right because it clearly wasn't in the nova repository, which was the project but clearly it was important And people needed it and for the yeah for the longest time is this nova is this not nova is it whatever and It's a terrible conversation. Nobody cares like that's not actually like it's a stupid conversation to have So we tried to get rid of that there you actually by the way Yeah, I'll let you finish this but you know you missed a governance change in your in your in your chart here We'll come back to that in Q&A Good big tent three phases to big tent the first one is when we first introduced it There was a catch-up on incubation You must realize that we were completely stuck by the end of the Juno time frame when it comes to adding new projects And we even add requirements for incubated project that were really hard to Reach for new projects So there was at the moment we work we we set up the big tent change all the project that should have been incubated before kind of Joined and that created this surge in this initial search during the kilo release then Around the Liberty release. It's actually the horizontal efforts that caught up We had a lot of new things new collaboration grounds that were enabled by the big tent We had collaboration around puppet around chef or an unseable and that created the radius surge in the number of horizontal efforts that were recognized as project teams and finally the last one the meat that can one is is The stock for sketch up a lot of project that were in Stack for before the change now we're an official projects and so we had we actually encouraged The project that were part of the open-stack community But we're unofficial to become official during the meat as the meat a castle So those are the three steps because again It was it was part of continuing to educate people that things were about who who we are right So if you're working on something in stock forage and you're doing things the way that we do things And you're using all of our processes and you're you're you're coming to this summit and you're and you're working yourself then You're just nothing that's less important about you than me like that's that should be that we're all Collectively working on a thing and if you're happy to be working on a git repository that I don't really care about I'm probably working on one that you probably don't care about so that's fine Like we don't have to necessarily all love each other's git repositories Maybe we should maybe we should all love each other's git repositories So weeks we we expect the curve to slightly flatten now that most of the catch up due to the governance chains was was absorbed There are a number of consequences to this change some are good some are some are bad Some are pretty ugly and will cover them. It was always a trade-off I guess and we were so that one of the good things that we were completely stuck and we are no longer stuck And I think that's the single major driver Around the idea is how much? Stuck we were by the end of the Juneau cycle with a person or a set of people are now free to decide that they wanted to work on a thing and With that with the some minor exceptions. They don't really have to spend a lot of time convincing Us that it's a great idea right like go nuts. Yeah, the requirements to become official We're so high by the end of the Juneau cycle that we could not really add new projects anymore And more importantly we couldn't drive the right behavior anymore because you could add new requirements Like like you should have at least 95 percent test coverage in your unit tests But then that would make the step to become official even even harder and so we would perpetuate the problem Designate in particular. I remember had a had a really big problem with this which is that they were right on the cusp for like forever of becoming official and the pushback from the TC was you don't have enough different companies working on this and the designate team was like Yeah, well none of the companies are working on it yet because you haven't let us into the Into the room and so that everybody is waiting to see if we're gonna be the thing And and so they're they're all saying we're gonna jump in Once you let us in the door and we're like we don't really want to let you in the door until you've got more than one or two Companies working on it and and they were rightfully quite frustrated With with that and so we can we can reuse now tags to drive the right behavior We create for example for example tags to describe that a project has support holding upgrades and that created actually a Surgeon project that we're interested in implementing that so we can reuse Governance as a way to drive the right behavior now The next one is more collaboration. I touched on it earlier We saw collaboration in spaces where they were known before we used to have like ten different sites for chef recipes or for something else and Facilitating creating project teams resulted in people getting together where they were working separate before that's really a good outcome as well Yeah, and we saw like even in in some things that had already been part of our ecosystem. There's a great. I think it was over the I Don't know somewhere in the Breedier metaka, but somewhere in this period of time, you know We had the really good Sort of collaboration and clean up between the the fuel folks and the in the puppet open stack folks There was like hey, we're two different projects that are both using a lot of puppet and we've we've got some some overlap here Why don't we get to the point where we can work together on this and that was a really I think that was a really good Recent outcome of those sorts of things and the next one is more reactivity in support for the integration engine strategy that we have in open stack trying to Come up with infrastructure solutions in general for whatever Technology is there. I think we facilitated in creating new project teams also helped I'm not sure we would have Magnum today if we stayed with the old system And so that we would have argued for a very long amount of time about the about the feasibility of it Is this really a thing we want to do is whatever and you know Do it and then it's there and then people like excited about it And something else might be something that there and it turns out that people aren't excited about it And that's okay too. We need the flexibility to be able to experiment and to try a new thing and have the users either Be interested in it or not be interested in it is is a much better way to be driven by our consumers and our operators So they can let us know the things that they like and don't like by using them And we don't have to have Four years worth of arguments about whether you know DNS is a good idea You know make it Either be popular or won't The next one is competition. I said we enabled more collaboration But we also actually enabled competition between projects used to be a program would own the space like monitoring for example and and so Anyone that would want to prove that they can come up with a better solution or any project that would not fit the bill would stay There forever, and I think we have at least a mechanism for replacing Projects and or having multiple projects addressing the same problem space now. I think it's a good outcome as well. I agree Although just for everyone out there We we don't necessarily want everyone in the world coming up with their their their own new from scratch Compute implementation So competition, you know within reason. Let's let's not do that other thing. I mean unless it's really good The last one is that it kind of forced us to document what we meant by by behaving like an open-stack project because Before it was a bit of an old tradition between old timers that were like sharing good stories around Campfires, can we set a campfire here? How many how much trouble would we get in if we set something on fire in this room? It's just Texas. It's a big tent. I should just try it and see if people like it It might not be popular we ended up Kind of having to document that now and and we worked on On that and the result is called the project team guide and it's kind of elaborating on the four opens that were the structure of the principles of open-stack into more more of a detailed step-by-step what does it actually mean to behave like the open-stack way. Oh There's not one. No focus. Yeah, focus. Yeah products. You can focus mean well. Do we have that? Yeah somehow It's it's a product. It we as as we added more projects. It actually helped us to focus on the core infrastructure pieces The integrated release was already too big for us to distinguish between between the very basic things and the layers above it and I think We are starting to see we can actually focus on a smaller subset of projects without Getting into problems with other integrated project that weren't part of it Yeah, that's the part of the part of the real issue there is There's you know, we can all sit around and argue what what is I as and you know is is this I as or is this I as plus or is this moving into the paths layer and we could I mean we Would be the world's most boring conversation But like we could we could try and make a taxonomy of that which is kind of the world that we were starting to get ourselves into That doesn't actually solve anybody's problems, you know Defining whether a project is is a is a an I as or not an I as project is you know It's it's the why there's reporters and stuff like that out there to write articles But but because we only had one bucket to put things in right we had the integrated release So it meant by definition. We were by by accepting effort that people might want to use We were we were we were creating this this single-sized thing, right? So so we were starting to imply that that you you If you wanted to deploy open stack clearly We were expecting that you definitely wanted databases of service right and you definitely wanted Hadoop as a service Like those are things that were important to you and there's other people that were like You know, I don't those aren't those aren't important to my use cases I don't want them and we're getting really frustrated that we're we're all of a sudden trying to it was we were implying to operators that they needed to to Install all or nothing of this kind of growing giant bit I think it's pretty clear to people now that we're not I hope I hope you're not thinking that that we're we're trying to Tell you that you should install literally every open-stack project or we don't like you That's that's not that's not the case and it's not reasonable It turns out that that choice and flexibility are good things. So there were a number of good outcomes There are also a number of bad outcomes. Oh, that's perfect. Skip the first one because we covered afterwards single vendor actually we don't place any requirements on corporate or organizational diversity in in before we accept project teams on the big tent now and we kind of hoped that being in the big tent would naturally result in More diversity to be brought to projects but actually some projects are single vendor and stay single vendor and and we basically provide collaboration resources to Efforts that are 90% driven by a single company which could be seen as a waste of resources But we we still live in a in a in a world where we hope that that project would get more Diversity but we could have the discussion of cleaning up the most single vendor project that don't get Multiverse city, I guess, you know on on the other hand and this is a this is a there's So that the downside to having single vendor projects, right is the theory that that the The company that happens to employ the people who are working on that on that project might Have a change of heart. They might decide I don't really I don't really care about this thing anymore It's it didn't drive as much revenue as we thought it, you know Whatever our product manager who is doing that, you know just you know Lost a whole bunch of money gambling in Vegas So we're gonna we're gonna cover it by by canceling this project Whatever the the thing is and so it's theoretically sort of at the at the whim of of that of that company and that on the flip side There's oh, sorry, and it also implies that the people working on on an open-sac project are necessarily Driven by or controlled by the company that they work for and there's a another panel tomorrow about about Balancing employer need and upstream needs and all of those sorts of things and it turns out that the reality is a little bit more complicated than that You know a a company ceasing to have interest in funding a project does not always mean that that project all of a sudden Ceases to have developers working on in fact sometimes new developers that you weren't expecting to exist Pop up out of the woodwork and they're like oh hang on wait. We were using that We weren't lead to develop We weren't really contributing to it because it was going fine, but it's really important to us We're gonna put some developers on it and we've in fact seen that in last year happen from exactly one of those scenarios So it's it is a bad thing. We have seen or it's a potentially bad thing, but there's as with a lot of these things It's it's not necessarily a black and white that there's some there's definitely some areas of gray Yeah, this is the bad. This is not the ugly yet So the other bad aspect is there is still a lot of confusion due to all those new projects and the communication around them I think it's mitigated now by the project navigator But I think a lot of more efforts need to be made to make that more consumable by someone new to the Open stack collection of projects making it simpler to figure out what what is what Yeah, it it's also We We may be in the middle of of open stack governance thinking For for good chunks of chunks of our day Terry and I and some some of the others It's possible that some of you out there may not spend 95% of your time thinking about the intricacies of open stack project governance I mean, it's a weird choice. I don't know why you would think about anything else But you know, I I'll I'll concede that that might be a choice that you might make in your life And and so the fact that now we are a software project that produces apparently people Rather than software Might might seem confusing We should ship people can we put people in boxes and send them to people wait, no, that's a bad idea, isn't it? Yeah, is that what containers do neat? I've learned what containers are now. Oh God, this is not good. Yeah, the last one is you sure this isn't the ugly section The last one is that and that's when I didn't anticipate I anticipated most of the other consequences, but not this one actually we kind of Require projects to behave in the open stack way before they can join now and So sometimes there is an established project has their own mailing list has their own buck tracker has everything set up and we before and they want to join open stack for for some reason and we don't have a good answer to them because We first require that they drop their mailing list and adopt ours drop whatever buck tracker they were using use launchpad and then maybe We will maybe it will pass the bar to get accepted So it's a hard sell to ask them to drop everything. They've been doing successfully so far behave like this for like two or three months before we can us Decide if they're behaving like an open stack project and we've had a number of Established project that could mean is it that it to join us due to that? Yeah, and it's a it's a It's it's eased the thing for the people who from the beginning. They're like, oh, yes I am already in the open stack ecosystem and I have a new idea And I want because I really like the way that that operating the open stack ecosystem works I clearly want to start doing my thing there and there's other people who maybe didn't have that thought they They may just sort of be over over somewhere else and And and realize oh wow actually I kind of seem to be filling a need that opensack has and maybe we should just you know Collaborate in that way, but we're pretty We're pretty adamant that do that you do things in the in in some particular ways and we're not really gonna we're not We're gonna budge on that So it is a it is a tough sell there. Well, it's part of the it's a consequence of saying This is produced by the open stack community if you're not part of the open stack community in the first place Makes it more difficult for you to exactly to add your code to it. Yeah, so ugly now Yeah, maintaining our identity is we created a lot of silos in the process of having all those project teams and it's Extremely difficult for the few people that are watching over the governance to try to keep track of Everything that's going on in every project team so maintaining the identity which is central now to What what is an open stack project across all those different projects actually proves difficult and and this is I mean This is one of the reasons why we are considering changing the event layout as well is to make sure that we We as a community spend more time exchanging together rather than force people to go in their own corner and and their own mid-cycle And and come up with something there when they're four or five projects then You know a small set of small set of people can kind of you know check in on them see how they're doing See what somebody may need help with and what not when there's you know 70 I I can't I I cannot stand up at a whiteboard and and from memory lists for you all of the open stack projects anymore I There was a period of time where I could do that But I would always miss one and I'd have to think about it for a second and be like Novo right that's But but yeah, it's it's it's trickier and it's also we've we've always had sort of a consolidated approach to Approach to doing things and there's there's almost always in every project like one thing that that project wants to do a little bit differently And and it's easier to sort of interact with that with the folks from that and say okay Why I hear what you're saying maybe we can maybe we can you know expand how are like oh That's a great use case and we hadn't really considered that so that's something we'll we'll expand and have be part of everybody's world or Yeah, that's actually not gonna work out because in aggregate and scale that's gonna that's gonna be a problem But again if we can't touch in touch base with everybody From a from an interpersonal basis It becomes much more difficult to have those conversations on a on a on a collegial level And it starts to become more of no you're just gonna do it this way And I don't have actually physically have time to talk to you about why Right, I don't have time to convince you that you are going to to follow this particular rule And that's that's not a really great experience for people Whereas in theory if the identity itself was carrying along then it it would it would it would it would come as a matter of course For the people in those in those projects that they would they would automatically choose to follow a thing And that's a really tricky thing with a lot of projects Yeah, another ugly consequence that we kind of need to address now is The limits of the tent and it became apparent during the last cycle where two projects were Actually proposed and did not get the usual consensual answer because we didn't really have a good answer the one was the puppy projects and the other was the tacker project and Puppy was rejected seven against six and tacker was accepted seven against six as not It's not normal like that's usually we we were all like oh it's it's for most of the past been like yeah That's not I mean nope Or of course that that makes perfect sense and these were these are actually really really Not easy conversations because they got into some really sort of existential questions about about what we're doing and and very specifics on you know on how You know how these are how these are helpful or hurtful or whether these You know like a a service that's going to interact with with Existing APIs that are out there that are themselves not not free Is is that a thing that us having a thing that interacts with those? In increases the openness in in a way that that that helps our operators or is that a thing where we're essentially doing You know open washing on top of on top of things that aren't and that's that's not it There isn't an easy cut-and-dry answer that that's it That's a really that's a really intricate and involved conversation to have and I'm glad that we've had some of those but it's also not not always the most fun thing to have because You know you've got people trying to solve a problem and and there's there's real things We have to dig into but we kind of have to have that discussion outside of the pressure of Specific project those are two different duty completely different cases But we need to have basically have the answer already before we start considering those projects So I think one of the things we need to do during during this cycle is to have the discussions around those two edge case and try To come up with a yes or no answer that we can all agree to so that when the project comes We can actually have a consensual response to that so that actually might be that might be good rather than ugly There's it's all good. It's all good. All of these things are actually all good cleaning up the tent. That's Another ugly consequence. I think there are a number of corner cases project that go nowhere half dead projects or completely dead projects that we accepted in good faith hoping that it would grow and Improve and have more contributors that are not going anywhere and keeping them in the tent is actually tainting a bit the rest of the It makes the tent smell a bit like like death and And so we will probably have to have those discussions about removing some projects out of the tense during this cycle I'm not supposed to keep the dead animals in my tent. Oh, that's you the smell. Oh, that's me. Okay, never mind This is another one. I think is is also because I'm mr. No black and white answers I think there's also some good things about about this Even though it might be ugly and it might cause us to have some some unpleasant interactions with some of our friends but we We have never been able to figure out Up to now how to kick something out of open stack once it's in It's it we've had mild discussions about it a couple of times in the past and and it's just gone nowhere Um and and so actually in this case We I'm hoping that as we go through this process It will not be pleasant, but that we can actually start to figure out how to say, you know what this isn't working out You know, it's not you it's me whatever that is But like that that's actually a healthy thing to do if we're talking about a long term You know in in the first three years of opens like it doesn't really matter that much But clearly we're around for the long haul at this point I'm not sure if you've looked around this place, but there's a bunch of people here I'm pretty sure that that we're probably going to be seeing open stack clouds for for many years into the future, right? So so actually shepherding this Not just for today, but for the for the future as well as important So being able to do this is is an important thing That we we have to learn we we we have having that we have never done it Makes me makes me pretty sure that we're not going to like it the first time we do it Well, it's it's a lot less costly to do it now it used to be very costly because it involved renaming repositories and So whenever you remove something you would not read it like the next day obviously now that it's it's almost just like a Config file change. It's really easy to Remove a project from the official list and make them unofficial. They can stand in open stack infrastructure They can keep keep their git repositories. They can be revived and re-exist and then re-add it I mean, it's not like definitive in any way. This this actually reminds me of This came up a little bit yesterday in a different conversation And possibly should have said this in the in the early very early side about what is what is the big tent? But just for to be really really crisp and clear for anybody who is still confused about some of these things Just because a get repository exists in in the little open stack namespace, so it's open stack slash foo That does not mean it is in the big tent. That does not mean that there's anything official about it being in a Git directory is as absolutely no meaning We we have a we have a nice yaml file in our in our governance repo That lists the things that are in in the tent right like it that is that is where Meaning becomes ascribed to a to a project and it can be varied and richer than we stuck it into an organizational bucket Of of get repositories again get repositories are artifacts. They're not in they're not important things in either We have eight minutes left including questions. Are you saying that we've been rambling? Yes, me on the stage. That's very and we did not cover any of our next challenges now Alright, maybe I should talk faster. Yeah, we so big tent. We did it and now what's next I mean, we've always looking into the next Governance change that will be necessary to address new challenges our next challenges. You will have to pick some meaning We can't cover everything Interoperability is one obviously we added it to the mission statement during the last cycle I don't know if you won't speak to it. I As a person who works on this day in and day out. I think this is a really important one so so so But I don't believe we have a really great answer for it yet The the the death core and ref that projects are working at it from sort of forward of one direction of describing what is What of the existing things that exist are interoperable? But us driving design and decisions to increase the interoperability of things I think is is a is a is the the other side to that coin that we've got to do Yeah, we also have end user experience also added to the mission statement more obviously because it was Conspicuously absent. Yeah, and I I would argue that these two are are are very closely related to each other The there's a balancing act between between facilitating deployer choices and operator choices and and having those seep out of the of the abstraction layer to the end user and usually When when we get it wrong We've given an exceptional amount of flexibility to the deployer and the end user is stuck holding the ball of complexity And I would really like to see us Us take care of the user by taking care of those those complexities for them Is is sort of where I'd like to see us get with that and there is also addressing both ends of the use case spectrum we have a community that is I mean anything that gets into up and stack is pushed by someone by you human and that human is driven by most either use cases of the of the organization that is working for and That addresses quite well the middle end of the spec in the middle of the spectrum Which is like medium-sized private cloud stuff not so much the massively scalable and not so much the really easy to implement scale and We as a community need to drive towards those ends because there will not be naturally Emerging from the dynamics around our community. That's that's challenge I think we need to think about how to drive those priorities even if they don't emerge naturally from the Contributor demographics we have And this one is in yours. Yeah Yeah, this is this is the other thing right like we're all of this has been about facilitating grassroots Distributed federated development right that that that teams of people can arise and they can kind of do whatever they want Because because that's a that's a really good way to to get parallelism, right? A lot of a lot of bandwidth by by parallelizing things and we all know that because we all work on massively parallel systems, right? But but without coordination and without without forethought and design that can that can very quickly just become utter chaos and And so as we've we've now very effectively facilitated our ability to massively parallelize our our development efforts We kind of need to come back in and figure out the The the the central coordination part and the and the forethought and design part, right? Which doesn't mean necessarily just telling everybody that they're wrong, but we've we've got to have some some overall holistic Vision or design of of how all of this fits together and what what using an open-stack cloud should be right? Not what is it today now? What can you eke out of it? But like if if I were to draw a picture of the perfect open-stack cloud What what would it be and that we all know that and that ever all of this parallel development effort can actually be in its in its own way and through its own freedom actually it's at least tangentially getting towards something that that ultimately looks like That that perfect that perfect ideal cloud because right now I think that we have lots of people Driving towards lots of visions of perfect clouds They just not all of those versions of perfect clouds are the same thing That ties into the next point, which is how do we? Manage to do cross-project work We've optimized a lot of the structure and the last a lot of our events around Vertical silos and now it's difficult for us to push any type of change across a number of projects And how we will be able to address that in the future is part of our next challenges Yeah, and and the last one is we're thinking the design summit because those are not really productive anymore, and so there is a discussion going on right now on how to best Encourage those new challenges like solve interoperability issues cross-project work overall technical design And how do we change our events in a way that that helps in that direction? I don't know and also like there's there's a there's an immense number of really interesting people here at this event today and And there's there's a bunch of interesting content And at the same time we're attempting to in parallel Also run a an event where we where we design and plan the next version of the thing right and that's when you have 7500 people coming here for for for this That's that's maybe it's maybe not the best use of of the of the time of the people who were Baking this to be over in a corner separated from all of the you know, it's it's it's kind of Rare that that we're over here on this side Presenting things right and that that should we should be able to free up to both be able to present things that we're working on But also to be able to listen to other people's presentations about how they're using this in the field Like I usually at these events do not have time to go and sit in people's talks about their deployments Right because I'm over in the other event And the other in the other building doing things so so hopefully we can we can get the right balance So we can do all the design work We need to do but also get to participate and see what cool things people are doing with the software we produced right like I'm always hearing third hand. Oh, did you see that talk at the summit? I'm like, I know we didn't see the talk of the summit like they did this really awesome scalable thing and I'm like Cool that would have been neat to have seen You know but it's also about having the time to listen to people rather than being on between two sessions and running I'll have a lot of people trying to corner me during this week And I just like don't listen to them and just run and that's a horrible experience for them That's a bad outcome for us as a group because we're we're not ready to listen We have a time for our extensive Q&A session of one minute One minute and a half So there it looks like there's a couple of microphones out there if anybody has Questions for us that we do not cover. Ooh, there's a person waving through the it looks like an Adam. What's up? Hey The networking or the neutron stadium. Yeah, that's the whole thing in the tent It seemed like it came in before the big tent was around and came in and on some of the spec reviews Reviews going Applications for new projects. It was there's some contention coming from the networking Yeah, that's an excellent question. Yes So then Armando still Yeah, hey, that sounds like a plant part of the of the project team we basically said that Once a team is approved they can have the repositories They want and that the neutron stadium built on top of that and and you had a number of projects join that But at some point the team that was approved was no longer Completely confident with I mean the code that was developed was actually developed by separate sub teams and that drove a new change that you can And it's I Mean a simulating the tent with the stadium. It's a bit of a leap I would say so and I mean us as a neutron core team a sort of lost control Or how all the various bits and pieces were fitting together within the neutron smaller Ecosystem if you will so to answer to that person's question is that we we've recognized that and we're trying to get to a solution And especially at this summit. We're having a session on Wednesday No Thursday morning, I think don't trust me look at the schedule even though I put it together and We'll try to get to the bottom of it I I make it my mission to you know to get to a final resolution before I Decided that no longer one around SPDL because it's it's an enduring exercise And we're out of time which means we can take one more question or not. Well, thank you everyone for listening to our first