 Good afternoon and welcome to the Vermont Legislature's House Natural Resources Fish and Wildlife Committee. This afternoon we are going to be briefed on the 2021 Lake Champlain Action Plan. We have with us Mark Nodd, the chair of the citizen advisory commission on Lake Champlain's future, and Hillary Solomon, district manager for the Portland Meadoway Natural Resources Conservation District. Welcome, Mr. Nodd and Ms. Solomon. Thank you for having us today. Thank you. Yes. Mark, do you want me to just go ahead and get started? Sure. I think Representative Sheldon introduced us and we shared, and I think as part of the meeting summary, an introductory letter that I think describes the Citizens' Advisor Committee in our work this year, and then Hillary can walk through our action plan and then we're ready to answer any questions that members might have. Thanks, Hillary. Great. Thank you. I feel like I should call you Mr. Nodd and Representative Sheldon, everybody. Good afternoon. So, yes, as mentioned before, I'm with the Portland Meadoway Natural Resources Conservation District down in Portland, Vermont. I'm here on behalf of the Vermont Citizens' Advisory Committee on Lake Champlain's future. That's a statutory committee comprised of 10 citizen members and then two senators and two representatives. And ideally those members are people who have a pretty good understanding of the water quality issues facing Lake Champlain. Can everybody hear me? Okay, great. Facing Lake Champlain represent a variety of interests who would be interested in those issues and also are located throughout the basin. So today, we had a few more people earlier, so I was going to introduce the folks who are here. So Bob Fisher, who's the water quality superintendent at the City of South Burlington, wasn't able to sort of hang on for that afternoon. But he was going to be here today as well. And then of course, Mark Nodd, who you probably all know who's a lawyer from South here out. And then myself who work on agriculture, stormwater, forestry projects, water quality assessments, project ID coordination and implementation, that type of thing. So that's the group here today, but of course there are other members of the group, including Senators Randy Brock and Virginia Lyons and representatives Carol Ode and Leland Morgan. So overall, the Vermont CAC is charged with understanding the scientific data and information about activities that affect or have potential to affect water quality and wildlife in Lake Champlain. So we consider the needs and impacts of a variety of sectors as we consider water quality in Lake Champlain balancing regional needs for agriculture jobs, economic development, etc, with the desire for preserving and creating a high quality environment in Vermont. As you probably know, the Lake Champlain CAC presents a report and a work plan where we summarize information that we've gleaned over the past year through a series of public meetings where we get experts and speakers to help give us information about topics that we've decided to delve into a little bit more deeply each year. So through that information and citizen input, we provide a report and sort of a summary of action items that we hope that the legislators would be supportive of and help move forward any actions or legislation that would support these items. We also have corollary groups in New York and Quebec that are working on similar types of action plans and items in their own respective areas that we try to coordinate with. So the Vermont, the action plan for this year is a reflects the findings and recommendations, including some that were highlighted through changes in recreation changes in sort of folks activities because of COVID. So we saw a lot of increased demand for public access to our surface waters, and including the Lake Champlain and its tributaries and through that additional access we know that we have needed to work for some time on increasing the locations where we can access Lake Champlain, especially in the South Lakes. So those, those items were sort of highlighted for us as we saw more need and more desire for people to get out and enjoy the natural world around them. We also saw the need through some, you know, some sad stories I think in the agricultural sector for sort of an increased support for farms as they transition to more sustainable farming practices. And also intensified concerns regarding human health, due to the impacts of multiple chemicals being found in our surface waters. So those are all pieces that have influenced our points and action items that we are presenting through the current work plan. And we also believe that a healthy Lake Champlain ecosystem requires redoubling the state's funding for investments in developed land and natural infrastructure, improving stormwater pollution controls and restoring forests and floodplains soils and wetlands and stream corridors. So this year, our focus, our focus was especially on agriculture and the pollutants and chemicals that we find in surface waters. So I think that we talked a lot about the laboratory analysis of these chemicals and the state's sort of storing of data related to these chemicals and I'll get into that in a few minutes. So you've probably received copies of the action plan it's blue this year it looks like this. I wanted to highlight a sentence out of the introduction because I thought it was really topical so I'm just going to read that quickly and then I'll go on to talk about the different points that we are hoping to highlight this year. So agricultural and stormwater runoff streambank erosion invasive species climate change and next generation pollutants are continuing burden and threat to Lake Champlain. I think it's good that we recognize that we've been working really hard already to combat these pollutants, but it also is important that we recognize that it's going to take a lot of work into the future to make sure that the lake is is healthy. What I think is investment in natural and developed infrastructure, which is fairly inclusive, but healthy ecosystems provide resilience to climate change we've already seen some pretty big changes in my area where I work. We're in the state related to climate change related to stream dynamics related to changes in flow because of increased melting, you know melting and rain melt sort of incidences in the spring and increased power of thunderstorms in the summer. So we're seeing a lot of changes, a lot of erosion, a lot of streams turning into little gullies and a lot of sediment getting transported downstream to Lake Champlain. So we need to protect our most critical parts of the natural ecosystem, such as our intact forest blocks and headwater areas and our flood plains and wetlands throughout the watershed to help combat combat this. Initiatives like the functioning floodplain initiative needs support and group groups need grants, such as the ERP grants from the Department of Environmental Conservation and other investments to help support assessment and restoration activities in Vermont. And the Lake Champlain Basin Program has been doing a really good job they have pollution prevention grants and they had a fairly new these technical proposals that a lot of people applied for this year. But I'm not sure and I'm not sure about, I don't think we've had an ERP round from DEC for a while, maybe a year. So that might be something we could follow up on and figure out if there's going to be a round coming soon and I may have missed something but that's just something that's been on my radar because we're kind of waiting to figure out when we can like funding for natural resource projects is something that folks are interested in so. So then likewise we need to focus on pollution from developed areas and local businesses are going to need a lot of support as the three acre rule kind of gets up and running. It's going to be costly and also confusing for these businesses as they kind of deal with the regulatory piece and trying to make sure that they're treating their stormwater effectively on their newly regulated properties. The second one is investment in public access areas and the recreation economy. One highlight of the Vermont economy is certainly our outdoor recreation tourism I know, and politely we've been talking about this a lot because of the closing of Green Mountain College. So we've been looking to bike trails and other things where we can both conserve the natural environment and also enjoy it. So again the state you know we don't have a lot of areas in the southern part of Lake Champlain where people can, you know, non motorized recreational folks can access the lake so that would be something that we would love to see some time and effort toward, and then also just, you know, improving access to our ponds and our rivers throughout the state. And then that first increased access brings us to something which would be invasive species, which we've certainly seen new invasive species continuing to appear in Lake Champlain and other lakes around Vermont. So many, so many areas, many lakes in my area do not actually have a greeter program. And there are no boat wash stations in my district that I know of. So both of these things would be things that would be good to redouble efforts on. Maybe take a look at those, those, those areas and the greeter programs that we do have are run by teenagers and volunteers so there's not a lot of sort of professional staff on site to help them. I think about how daunting it would be as a young person to approach people as they bring their boats, you know to unload and inspect them for invasive species so we're asking a lot of young folks and retired folks without really a lot of support from somebody who provide technical assistance. Our fourth point is that we need more investment on an agricultural transition to sustainability. I think that as a worker in Vermont who provides technical services to farms were often faced with pretty grim stories about the economics and future of farms in our area. We had a farm who was applying for a grant to agency of ag to get some conservation practice equipment, and they have to go through their financial information on the application. And it turned out that they had spent their entire retirement IRA in the couple previous years because they because of the low milk prices. So there were three dairies and Paul it recently there are not any more dairies and pop up sorry poltney three days I'm getting a little nervous. Three dairies and poltney until a couple of about two years ago and now there are not any left here. And then of course, a lot of the farmers in the area tried to grow hemp to help, you know turn around their financial situation but that did not turn out to be economically rewarding to them at all. We do have some hopeful stories. We have a small farmer who opened a grain mill locally and they've been processing locally grown grains and then selling pizza in a meadow and people were riding their bikes and driving their cars to this meadow to get pizza so that you know we do have some spots like that there's another farm farmer who opened a small butchering sort of station at his beef farm. And we have people from out of state to who are looking at investing in the area, trying to look at sort of carbon sequestration practices and regenerative agriculture so definitely some bright spots. But we definitely need more support and quicker response from the state. So I think that the payment for ecosystem services work that's been mandated by the legislature needs to move forward relatively quickly and not get bogged down. And I look forward to, you know, I look forward to that, that system getting started and getting sort of its feet on the ground I know it's still in a development phase. But I think both that and the opportunity for some carbon trading and maybe payments for carbon sequestration are places where we could help encourage things to move forward a little faster and try and get these farmers you know payments for the services that they are providing to our to our environment and our state. Okay, so then we move on to the other side of the coin which is enforcement on farms. I think we all know that public perception is poor surrounding the working relationship between the agency of ag and Department of Environmental Conservation when it comes to enforcement of water quality violations at farms. The protocols should be clear when a direct discharge of pollution to a surface water is founded a farm, and both agencies need to take responsibility for their actions and their obligations. Entities working with the farm and enforcement need to provide clear instructions to the farm and clear information to the public when these stories are publicized which of course they often are. The agency of ag can provide technical support to farm so they understand and can meet the required egg practices and DC can step in when a farm violates state or federal water quality laws. Agency of ag to also provide guidance and support to farms transitioning to a more diverse and more sustainable agricultural model. And we need the agency of ag to assist farmers as they redesign agriculture to be more sustainable and reduce non point source pollution. Our last topic that we looked at as I mentioned were chemicals in the water. So first, we need the state to keep track of chemicals that are sold and used in Vermont. There have been some reported issues about the quality of data tracking and databases used by state agencies, and we need to prioritize that clear and accurate tracking of chemical data in Vermont is is important and needs to be done accurately. Second, there are some new or newly worrisome agricultural and industrial chemicals being found in our waters. And we need these need to be tracked and monitored. They're difficult to monitor and I think some funding and expert and our expertise may be needed to ensure that the new monitoring programs that the agency of ag are robust and useful and the agency of ag is trying to monitor some of these compounds. So I think we should support them in that endeavor and make sure they have enough funding to do it correctly. So those are our topics, and hopefully you have a copy of the handout. I think Mark and I are happy to answer questions or talk about any of these in greater depth or length. Sorry, I got a little nervous. It makes it hard to talk and then I You did great. Thank you. And we do have it. It's up under today's date handout and then your letter is is also up there on our webpage committee representative don't Good afternoon and thank you for your patience. We had a busy floor session today so I do appreciate your patience in coming in sticking with it. I know you care about these issues and sticking with it and helping us become more informed is worthwhile. So thank you for that. And it's always good to see you and Mr nod. My questions and I do appreciate your annual plan of action is really helpful, especially when you look at the breadth of challenges in front of us to get a better understanding of the collaborative effort that goes into identifying and prioritizing needs. So thank you for that. I guess my question I have a few questions if you don't mind. One is in regards to ongoing monitoring. I know that most recently the state. The person who was in charge of I believe she she might have been supported with a similar funding source that the Basin program is supported she was in charge of monitoring for the algal blooms the the cyanobacteria algal blooms that we unfortunately experienced due to too much nutrient loading. And with that retirement. Can you describe a little bit what's the, and perhaps this will be a better question for the, the agency itself but, but knowing how closely you work with the agency how are we maintaining the monitoring of these algal blooms because of the toxicity this is important information to keep the public engaged. And if you know the answer to that. Mr. nod, I don't I do know I work very closely with several lake associations including like promising they have a couple of stations and like St. Catherine and their couple of. They, they tend to follow this very closely so it would be, we would be interested down here to know that sort of fate and you know what is happening for that program this summer and like you said it is it as timely as people get out on the lake. And it would be good to have that information so we could follow I'd be interested to follow up on that too. I can, I can maybe provide some context and, and what updates I might know. So I think you might. Thanks, Kerry, again, nice to see you. I think you might know that I think it's Dr. Angela Shamba recently retired for long term from her long term role as leading the long term water quality monitoring program that I believe is primarily supported through Lake Champlain Basin program funding. It's, I think it goes back almost 30 years. We heard from Oliver Pearson at lakes and ponds with the agency that they were eager to try to replace and fill that position. And her role was not only the cyanobacteria monitoring, but also the breadth of all of the other parameters that the long term monitoring program has. Recently, as the CAC presented a resolution to the Basin program requesting them that they increase the monitoring particularly related to these what's called next generation and, and, you know, Angela's husband Nat who worked in Department of Agriculture doing pesticide and herbicide science for a very long time. Also, he reminded me that there's, there's some next generations but a lot of these chemicals, two big chemicals of concern atrazine and glyphosate, more commonly known as roundup are hardly new. They've been around for 20 or 30 years. What's new is the increased level of utilization, particularly as cover crop practices have implemented and are required, certainly very highly supported as a way of reducing nutrient load. But now there's this concurrent chemical load as they use these defoliants to prep soils to prep the fields for planting of other crops seasonally so we're hopeful that whoever is hired is up to speed and moving that along very quickly. But I'm not certain is the exact status of who's leading that program at this time. I'm certain there's a number of agency staff who are carrying on, although last year with COVID isolation. There were a lot of fits and starts about people actually getting into the field to keep up with it so the report that Oliver shared with us showed a lot of gaps in the actual data and the quality of the data that was delivered. That answers your question. Yes, it doesn't. Madam chairman ask a follow up question. As you know the TMDL is focused on the nutrient loading into Lake Champlain and half the state drains into Lake Champlain. I appreciate your interest in seeing that position filled and the addressing other chemicals of concern but with respect to our compliance with the Clean Water Act directives to reduce these nutrient loadings. Are we in your mind in partnership with perhaps with the basin program is the state also on top of doing the modeling to determine whether we're achieving our pollutant reductions to your knowledge. Is there any actual in the field monitoring occurring to demonstrate reduction in nutrient loading from the by the practices that we're installing I don't know a little more specifics on on field monitoring but I know that a lot of energy is devoted to increasing the quality of that monitoring a lot of monitoring occurred to build the TMDL. And I know that one of the focuses for the citizens advisory committee, you know, historically we've been very focused on making sure we have the funding to support the investments necessary. So thanks to the legislature and the governor we've moved, moved beyond that and now there are either projects being implemented, or the increased in improved monitoring and the modeling connected to that monitoring to be sure that we're actually achieving the success that we're seeking Hillary Mike knows specifically the quality of that monitoring. I think I feel like the state. So the TMDL is the, like the credits, the phosphorus credits from the TMDL are definitely created through modeling, not monitoring, but there has been an effort to make sure that those of us who are participating for example the La Rosa partnership laboratory program where we collect samples and then the state lab analyzes those and and pays for the analysis. There have been efforts to make sure that those samples are fulfilling those types of requirements that they are creating information that is feeding back up to the state then showing whether or not practices are effective and trying to show sort of long term in smaller streams so not on the lake itself and not at the big tributaries that come out on the lake, but at smaller streams where we might see a more quicker response to practices on the landscape. So that program was halted last year because of COVID there was no like watershed group or conservation district water quality monitoring that occurred. It is back this year and it's been changed quite a bit so we're kind of working through the new new process new system it's a little bit limited because they don't allow you to take samples outside of the summer low flow sort of we can get we can get rainfall events during the summer, but we're missing the spring sort of flux of phosphorus out to the lake and some you know spring and fall. So I'd love to see that actually broadened in the future with a little more flexibility for the times that we take the samples, but it is at least in place this summer so we can we can continue to monitor. Thank you. Do members have other questions. Representative Dylan. Only if others don't I can always fill the air with quick questions as ongoing problem of mine is not knowing when to shut up. Again fascinating to hear what you describe as as ongoing challenges, and we share with you about news and species control. I know that there's a grants program through the department curious to know your reaction as to whether there's adequate funding to meet the funds. And then the second part when you mentioned there haven't been any ecosystem restoration grants for a year I presume that's because of coven and interested to know, knowing that we have a clean water fund available. When do you anticipate seeing those dollars become available to partners. So I may have missed something I think there was a grant to do conservation easements that was released at some point which is still part of that ERP the ecosystems restoration program. So I need to follow up on that but my sense is that we're waiting, we're waiting and hopeful, and we're told there'd be a another round in January and, and it hasn't come out yet so. I think between that and then the new through act 76 the enhancement grants you know we haven't heard how those are going to be. If that'll be part of the service providers or, you know, held separately at DC or with another organization so we're kind of waiting to hear about those as well, because that's the natural resource funding as opposed to the more strictly stormwater funding that for now would be going through the service providers. And the grants and aid for news and species control. So those are so so the lakes I have I work with nine associations down here who apply for those grants and they get about 20% of their projects funded each year. I think that's where it's difficult they have you know it's so and so grandkids are the ones who are the greeters and the grandpa is the one who's like sort of helping out and making sure that they're there on time and doing what they're doing. I think it's hard I think it's challenging. I know as you know when I was in high school, I don't think I would have felt very comfortable working with somebody who was taking a dirty boat into a lake and having the authority to tell them that they couldn't and they needed to wash it off so I just, I do think we should revisit those programs looking at the reader program and and trying to get boat wash stations like mobile boat wash stations because if you do find something dirty and they had to clean the boat on site. So it would be, there is not enough funding. And it's, it's, I think the programs could be looked at again. Representative McCullough. I have a question about the change in sampling protocol where you no longer get spring fresh hits and only during the dry, the dry period. Because one, it would appear to me that that would give a more favorable result for programs with that are that are likely polluting. Secondly, now the new results aren't going to fit with the, you know, in any kind of a linear way and you mentioned you'd hope to get those changed back. So with the change in protocols going back and forth is not a very scientific approach and what's going on here who changed these protocols and it's my is my my dissertation somewhat accurate or or not at all. I feel it is I feel like there were some watershed groups including our district who had been sampling since the program started in 2003 and we had very clear objectives and reasons why we were sampling certain locations and times. For whatever reason, I think the program got a little bit overwhelmed, maybe they, they were so encouraging of new people starting to monitor and, you know, I think DC wanted to encourage groups and towns to collect data where they could and wanted them to encourage them to use it for projects and, you know, trying to figure out where to put projects and if they were effective, and it just got maybe overwhelming so they sort of clamped down and Bethany Sergeant is the person who's in charge of this program and who over is overseeing these changes so anybody wants to call her. No. So I think she's responding to what she sees as too much demand for something. You know they use the state laboratory to, to also analyze their own data, you know water samples and so we were providing sort of some competition. So I think it would be nice in the lab so it would be nice to revisit this though I think we're not doing ourselves or the state of favor by not allowing these groups to do the work that they feel is important and that they've been working on for years. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for that we did. We did try to intervene when that was happening last time. Representative Dolan. I apologize for not knowing this answer but what do you mean by double redoubling. What does that term redoubling mean when you talk about attention to our water quality objectives here. Are you, are you saying that we're our attention is varying or there's less money available. What do we mean by that term. I think sometimes, and I will admit that I didn't did not write that particular word into the document so I'm getting a little bit just interpreting myself. But I think sometimes the concern is that you know we passed you guys past acts 64 and then act 76 which x64 being you know kind of an all encompassing and act 76 being a little more, you know limited to specific funds to do specific things. And we sometimes get a little nervous the folks on the ground we don't we don't we don't want you to think like oh good we're done we did it, we want to make sure that everybody understands this is going to be really hard work and with climate change and you know things that are happening that we control. It's going to be a slow process and so we just want to make sure everybody's aware of that and that I think that we all feel supported to as we do work that's challenging both emotionally and sort of in terms of not always seeing results after your after you've been working on something so I think that that that's what is meant by that and I'll let Mark step into if that was. Yeah, I think that for some folks, there's this sense that we've been spending a lot of money for a long time, and we're not understanding or seeing progress in solving a number of issues facing the lake and it's all very connected all very interconnected and any ecosystem is and depending on changes in practices and changes in policies, we, we see some initiatives that might trip and stumble and falter and monitoring comes and goes we know historically invasive species, if we step away from funding invasive species, they creep, and they, they expand, we know that with horse chest nuts with Eurasian mill foil with a number. The Basin program funds a number of invasive species and monitoring efforts and significant funds have been delivered through the Basin program to the agency and natural resources in the state to manage for months impact on Lake Champlain and we're the vast majority of that impact and of that the vast majority is well that number one largest contributor stems from agriculture and agricultural practices. So I think the redoubling is to not take our eyes off the prize of continued to make investments in challenges that have been developing for a century and what we heard and recognize and the note about COVID spotlighting or amplifying things that we heard was that, you know, COVID took away from some of the good efforts that people were doing because of isolation and, and you know the sensible practices that limited at the same time, we need to catch up with that and do more around our monitoring and around investing in these healthy systems that, you know, Vermonters got outside we saw over 100% increase in utilization, and that was during a time where there were, you know, we didn't have physical border controls but there were clear travel restrictions limiting anyone from outside of the state coming into the state. And we're poised for a lot of pent up demand for people to get outside and engage and Vermont is a maybe target isn't the right word but Vermont has enjoyed itself at the, you know this we're at the center of 70 to 90 million people who come here for the outdoor recreation economy and our hospitality and tourism and outdoor recreation industry are critical to our economy and critical to supporting and educating those that come here to play and use those resources and critical to building that constituency for improving the quality of the environment that they like to play in which is for us and for future generations and our kids. And so we're catching up with a lot of previous past intended but not well executed practices, and we're learning and I think that's the redoubling we really need to double down and make sure that we're investing in it and climate change makes it more challenging because climate the climate change that we're experiencing is different from other places and we're not going to see enormous heat that perhaps others and we're not going to see enormous coastal flooding. We have amazing natural resources that create healthy clean water, the maple industry and the skiing industry might be challenged with increased heat. We have a longer growing season, which might invite more invasive invasive pests as they shift their habitats. I think really we need to prepare ourselves more strongly for what's in front of us and monitoring and investing in these infrastructure, whether it's natural infrastructure or our developed land infrastructure to manage stormwater runoff is the most critical investments particularly as we're looking at some strategic funding from our congressional delegation and particularly with this lens of COVID recovery. Thank you. Madam chair me I ask one make one more statement, if I may. Yes, I do want to take this time. I do want to take this time to thank I'm not legs and playing bassin program I know you've been integral part of that with the citizens advisory committee and shepherding federal dollars for Lake cleanup are the base and clean up efforts. The role of Senator Leahy in our congressional delegation has been instrumental at bringing more dollars to support our work and your role has been I think instrumental in getting those dollars here, and, and your role and in seeing in ensuring those dollars are well spent so I want to extend my appreciation to your good work and through that through the base and program thank you. And I just, she's not engaging today but we have a new staff person supporting us so we have a coordinator inside the agency we're staffed by an agency person part time. Sarah Coleman. And recently the steering committee of the base and program approved hiring a staff person that will facilitate our work in Vermont but also our work as we interact with our colleagues at the New York citizens advisory committee and at the Quebec citizens advisory committee. So Catherine Dar joined about a month or more ago six weeks ago. I think that next year she will certainly be more involved with our work in front of the legislature, but it's another example of the base and program, making significant investments in supporting the work of the committee and the work of the agencies in our and Department of Agriculture in in managing Lake Champlain and moving forward with policies and monitoring necessary to assure that we're achieving the high quality environment we seek. That's great yeah thank you. Just to echo what Representative Dolan said for your commitment and your hard work on behalf of all the monitors to try to move the ball forward on Lake Champlain and water quality issues. And also for yeah putting up with our, our flexible schedule. Very much appreciate that I know you probably had lots of things you needed to get done today as well so thank you for being patient and joining us and I'm not seeing any further questions so I think we're, we can adjourn for the day. We thank you as well for, you know, hosting us and also for the work that you guys all do on, you know, natural resource issues and helping to keep our waters clean so so thank you. Yeah, thank you again. All right. Good afternoon everybody have a go enjoy the sun before the rain comes.