 someone who has never prayed before to please pray today so is there anyone who hasn't prayed in this class seems like most people have pray but hope hasn't played but I prayed before oh hope has it okay you're keeping account of that chance okay so yeah hope would you be able to lead us in prayer today can I pray okay fine chance you volunteered hope remain standing for hope father god we thank you so much for this wonderful morning god of gods and king of kings we thank you because you love us and now lord that we are here before you as we prepare to learn about the local church Lord that you will teach us because we are your bride the church is your bride the church is the one that you came for and you will be coming back to take your church home so Lord prepare us here to pass learn from you there as we are here this morning we feel so expectant that Lord you will give us the expectations we have about you and be ready to be led by you as we continue to live on earth in preparation for eternity we thank you we love you for any Jesus name we pray and believe amen amen amen thank you chance thank you for leading us in that part of prayer we've been studying about the local church and in the last class we looked at the structure and church government and the way it progressed in the early church so after doing that you know we we saw that there were several roles that emerged some at the level of administration initially so we had the decals and then you know we eventually had elders in the church and then later on we saw the role of a bishop emerging and then the bishop who is also you know in the spiritual ministry not just the the administrative and logistic side of things but also in spiritual ministry we saw the emergence of pastors the emergence of senior pastors one pastor being assigned to a local church so in this manner church government took shape and we kind of compared to our present day structure here you know present the current church and we said that in terms of the government different churches as led by God have a structure which is suitable for them okay and we looked at styles of governing and we discussed some of the common patterns that people use so we had done most of the types of church government but we have a few more to touch on so we'll do that today and then we will proceed to the next chapter here so I think we were at house churches and we talked about the importance of fellowship the importance of connecting deeply with other believers and house churches provide that opportunity and in today's time a lot of churches do not want to get into a more of an event management mode so they prefer at the house churches and maybe once in a while they have a large gathering where the entire congregation can join it but one challenge of house churches is the the issue of oversight because if you have leaders who have caught into the vision and they are well equipped they're all flowing together it's alright but if you find some of the leaders taking the church in their own direction and not reporting it to the leadership of the church then it can be problematic right so what we call as splinter groups so you can have certain groups that break away from the main vision that break away from the main church and that can be problematic so that's about the house churches now cell based churches I'm on page 24 in our notes and cell based churches are it's similar in a sense however it's it's not exactly house churches so cell based churches are they could be mega churches they could be large churches but what they have done is they have they have provided this option to the people to be connected in smaller groups now the the connecting in the smaller groups can be done in various ways in some churches they may want to regroup people based on their age group or in some churches they prefer to do it on the basis of people's interests in some churches they may do it on the basis of ministry interest so there are different ways of grouping people within a congregation and they allow people to connect in smaller groups and these smaller groups have a rhythm the rhythm establishes you know it gives them an opportunity to connect more often than your your Sunday service and the larger meetings they establish strong relationships here they can develop accountability they can also study God's Word they could pray together they could become those groups that catch the vision of the church and you know serve in their own capacity so cell groups the cell group model is a very very effective model we will be looking at it a little later as well but for now you know we we can know that this model exists and some of the largest churches in the world they have cell groups in them and it's been a great contributor for the growth of the church so cell groups are good and cell groups also have the downside of splinter groups coming out of them if the leaders of the cell groups are not in sync with the rest of the elders and the pastoral team of the church so that that is a danger but of course you know if you if you have a system where where you can provide proper oversight to these cell groups and keep the cell group leaders in sync cell groups can work very well so that's another structure that is common mega churches mega churches are the emerging model also so to speak we see so many mega churches the mega churches are known for the number of people that attend these churches and you know the Sunday services are more like an event and you know it's it's pretty well done it's pretty well done so mega churches how we could sort of classify them as 2000 plus members and the advantage of a mega church is that the mega church has a voice it has a it has a voice it could have a voice in the city it could also have a voice for the nation it could have an international voice just by the sheer size of the church and the the capabilities right the resources that they they have once when they speak people take notice so the influence of a mega church is is tremendous and you know that can be used for God's glory and organizationally you know generally we find that mega churches are pretty good and this could be because of the kind of leadership that is provided usually if you notice mega churches they will have a strong visionary leader who is also good organizationally okay so this leader could have founded the church and eventually we could have developed a pastoral team we could have developed ministry teams and you know there's a there's a good structure provided to the church so it's sort of easier to go through the rhythm of the mega church you know the the life of the mega church so that is the the way in which mega churches are generally established and they do well they do pretty well now the downside of the mega churches could be the lack of fellowship so uh you know people come into the church but if there's organizationally there's no way of tracking then if there's no way of uh uh getting to know them quickly and and getting them into cell groups or things like that then people might feel disconnected quite soon so people come in yes and people might also leave so that is a challenge in a mega church and you know doing this well connecting people well in a mega church it's easier said than done it is very difficult it is very difficult unless the the church has established great systems early on if they have established those systems then you know probably people come in and they quickly connect and they still are able to grow and feel loved and blessed at an individual level okay so that is possible however if it's not well done like organizationally if there are challenges then you know it's difficult people might feel left out now the other a challenge it's not a downside now we said that a mega church can have a voice because of the way things are done but if something goes wrong in a mega church okay for example uh if uh the funds are not utilized properly or if there is a model failure uh you know or if the pastor has a model failure or the somebody in the past routine uh shows issues it's picked up very quickly okay it's picked up very quickly and the news spreads and that can have a negative impact on the people now it's not to say that smaller churches don't have these issues smaller churches can also have these issues but uh i'm talking about the impact the quick and the large impact that a mega church can have you can't compare it with what a small church the impact from the small church so that again is is something to um you know take notice of uh and it's possible that mega churches also have a lot of media attention so you know if they say something uh which is unacceptable to the to the media the press or you know the the government they can get into trouble quicker so these are the the uh challenges of playing a church and also we know that it is a it is a good thing that you know god um wants churches to be large it's there's no it's not again it's not we're not talking about right or wrong uh but there's good in everything they can also be down sides the point is to go in the direction that the lord is leading you and we will discuss later it's okay to uh trust god for our church to become a mega church because there are so many people who need to hear the good news and uh uh why can't we have you know large churches every church grows and every church becomes a a large place that can uh that that can nurture and disciple people okay so uh yeah mega churches are a good option now moving on to the next kind of church setup that exists the multi-site churches uh multi-site churches um uh are also kind of coming to the fore lately uh and uh that these are also uh preferred by people the reason being uh they're geographically accessible for people right so in a city uh if there's a wonderful church in the heart of the city and the city is the large uh in in terms of you know distances and all of that people they find it difficult to go to that particular branch so if you have multiple branches people can uh be part of the life of the church they can learn from the teachings of the church they can be discipled by the church wherever they live they don't have to travel uh you know far into the center the heart of the city each time to be a part of the church so multi-site churches are uh coming up and a lot of people prefer this now uh the structure of the multi-site churches usually you have the senior pastor but you have a good pastoral team unless you have a good pastoral team it's difficult to run this because you know you you you must be sick you need to have that rhythm uh you know together with with the other members on your team so as the senior pastor directs the pastoral team can sort of flow and you can have the churches running simultaneously good oversight being provided to the churches and in a multi-site church one of the the common features is share sharing of resources okay so a lot of things could happen centrally like centrally people might decide what the themes of the sermons will be in the upcoming months centrally there can be a plan for member care centrally there can be a lot of other you know ministries that are launched out and the branch churches kind of feed into that so shared resources is a common feature of multi-site churches so all these options exist there are there are strengths there are weaknesses and definitely there is no perfect church okay and we we have to do our best to be led by the spirit of God and move in the direction that God has for us so some of you might be pastoring churches so please bear this in mind you could go with any structure you could go with any structure but be aware of the downsides so then you know how to plug the loopholes from the very beginning now any questions any comments that you would like to add to what we are discussing today yes Samuel please go ahead thank you thank you pastor well I feel you know for those of us who long to start churches I think knowing these different types of churches is really important but I also feel you know like strategically like yeah it has it has some significance like for example you know if I want to have a huge impact let's say if I want to impact my state my city but the format that I'm comfortable with is say of a cell based church okay so that that's a conflict in itself so I'll probably not be so effective in having a huge impact like probably I should have a format that is more scalable to a mega church that's what I should aim for so I'm thinking how many pastors out there are people who start church have a vision in mind and then structure the church according to the vision versus you know like we start I think the very natural way to go is you want to start a church you start a church but you're not really thinking about structures and it sort of organically takes place you go and go and go and go so from a cell base you become a house church to probably independent church then then you realize that you need to put some some leadership in place and then probably and then again depending on on your leadership team then there's potential of becoming a mega church but then is there a possibility that you know you become a mega church and then you realize that it's not aligned to the vision and somehow you want to dial down or you want to you know you want to stick to a cell because you realize that you know you started the church in first place so that people have close fellowship with each other you know and somehow you're not really focused about impact having a huge big scale impact but you are like more like at least that's what I'm thinking like if I want to have a church I want to have it in small numbers where you know very small congregation but the congregation they know each other very well and let's say I want to stick with that but because I haven't so I think I'm just my bigger question is uh strategically planning versus letting it organically grow into depending on uh so how like do you measure like I don't know I don't know if I'm thinking says but I don't know I get what you're saying yes yes I do I get what you're saying so any any comments thoughts on that okay thank you uh Samuel it's a really good question for any pastor uh and I would say it's a combination you can't have one or the other okay so uh yeah because we begin the church with a vision for sure uh and we must have a strategy in place okay but then if you ask any pastor who has pioneered a church over the years they will tell you uh there was the broad vision and uh there was the strategic plan but they had to make place for the organic growth as well so there's a lot of tweaking there's a lot of accommodating growth uh that happens there is there is a transitioning that happens so a pastor yes we put the structure down uh you know on a piece of paper as the Lord gives it to us but I know for the fact that you know things evolve as as you keep moving forward okay so certain yeah so it definitely happens but we mustn't compromise on the uh like the big ticket items like at least you need to know clear cut you know um some some aspects of your church which wouldn't change okay um okay how do I put that now for example your uh like you know your uh statement of faith that remains the same right so that has to remain the same your mission has to remain the same if you're going to to be uh like APCW all people search world outreach uh and the name was given when everything began so day one right so uh the vision remains the same and also the mission we'll talk about these things later so mission is you need to know like what are your your your uh main approaches so if you are about reaching the uh the unsaved people all right doing a small cozy connective church it's good but it will always growing the people will always tend towards encouraging them to step out at some point okay so things like that so if you have some of the core um your your core aspects in place uh that helps but then things will evolve organically you have to provide space for that and uh from time to time you may also want to make some changes okay for example I'll just tell you uh like if you choose a certain cell model there are many cell models out there uh you know if you study various churches there are different cell models now you may start off with one cell model and realize uh that at this point the church is rather small and you don't really need cell groups it's it's going okay so you might want to discard it all together for a couple of years uh till such time that you have more people in the church uh and then you might come across a different cell model that suits your congregation and then you kind of you know put that in place but one uh a point that I want to make right away is whatever you plan for your church plan long term okay so if you incorporate a certain cell model uh think of ask the question in the next 10 years you know will this model help disciple the people and grow the church so at least I mean I'm just giving you a decade as uh as a uh scale here but you could you could plan you know way ahead you could plan way ahead and when you have when you're able to plan into the future right uh I think that's very important for a leader to be able to plan like well into the future and it helps the church because then you minimize those many uh you know transitions and all I mean if you can avoid it yes but of course you will definitely have transitions happening from time to time you can't you can't change that thank you just some examples yeah um just one small thing um but yes you know as you are asking so it got me thinking um I think the default is for any any person starting a church the default is growth you know you want you want growth the growth and um you know somehow um I don't know I think most churches aim for a larger congregation and probably multi-site churches and happy you know branches all over and I'm wondering if there are churches that you know of which have you know which have taken the other route which is you know we will we will keep ourselves as house churches or we will even if we are growing we will probably uh you know call it a different church and let the like let's say um I'm hypothetically just let's say you and I start a church um and then we have say 16 of us here uh but after two three years we become 100 and then we decide to split so you and so you all you you lead a separate church and I lead and then that becomes 50 church like church of 250 each and then again so it's not really these churches I mean even though they originated from the same uh model but now they are two independent churches and and so on so I don't know if that there is a model like that uh yeah so it happens Sam it happens it's I I know I wouldn't call it a model but I know that these kind of things happen uh and they happen quite often okay okay so yeah it's an intentional split not not like you know there's a dispute or conflict but it's like we're just too big uh I and I don't think we are having close fellowship the congregation is too big to manage so let's call ourselves two different churches okay so the uh do you know of churches that okay so personally I don't know of churches that grow and split uh for effectiveness but I do know that cell groups do this so in a given church uh like even at ABC uh we we incorporate the G-12 model of uh Caesar Castellino's uh church uh and uh the G-12 model is where you grow right you grow up to 12 people and then you kind of split and you split but then there are the dynamics like the cell group leader uh can be a part of two cells so you can be a part of that mother cell and then another cell group as well uh if you would like to and uh that way you know he can still have that fellowship with the earlier cell group so this is the original model but uh you know it has kind of uh evolved since then so just to adapt ourselves to the practicalities of vanguilla city so yeah I know that cell groups do that but uh intentionally churches going in for things like growing and splitting I don't know of a model like that and if you ask me I think it's a it's a I mean I don't know how you would manage that in the long term because uh you know for people it's for the pastors and all it's okay but for the people if you tell them okay now you had good fellowship now we are 100 people now split it doesn't work like that relationships don't work like that yeah sure thanks thank you Sam uh okay we have two more questions we will take that out so Kennedy is asking is there something like an online church so yes sir Kennedy recently I have observed uh certain pastors and ministers who have launched only an organic uh sorry online church so uh they physically they don't meet physically because these uh one particular church that I I know of uh it's a global ministry so they have people from all over the world attending the uh teachings of this minister of god uh and you know they do it in a periodic way uh and from what I have observed when they have their services and the teaching is going on at the end of the teaching they actually announce members and they would say things like okay we have a Kennedy uh you know I'm just saying like Kennedy from such and such a country and Nancy from this country who have become members who have become members so uh yes there seems to be something like an organic uh why am I saying online church happening uh but then if you talk about the effectiveness of an online church um it's too you know it's too uh initial to to make a comment on that because so many other things have to be answered the question about how to disciple them what about uh you know meeting them in person mentoring counseling so there are many aspects of discipling people how how are we gonna work on all those uh aspects there are questions that need to be answered but I have observed online churches lately uh where yeah they people can't meet physically because it's global unless they have a center where they invite people to come physically and meet and if they do that also how often can people buy an air ticket and go to another country to attend the church unless they have a pastoral team they send out ministers to different countries and plant you know churches physically in their zones so we'll have to wait and watch uh how how this pans out so uh yes Avni you have raised your hand you could go ahead please yeah I'm uh I'm just following up Samuel's question yes uh when the cities grow like new localities come up okay so now the people are coming from far off and now they have shifted so now that is the reason where you know one another branch of the church can be opened like the church splits where you know I've seen uh our local church back in our native where because a new locality in a far off in the same city but outskirts they have now they started a church there and so many people from this church because they have opted to stay in that locality and meet their houses there they start going to that church so that can be one of the ways the church you know splits and people are divided okay okay so uh then the the hearts of the people are ready isn't it they are prepared to do this yes yes yes yeah then it's easier Avni uh yeah so if that is taught to them and they are willing to do it it's good uh but the point I was making is if if this splitting thing uh is is the strategy of the church uh it may not be easy you can prepare the people but if this is going to keep happening you grow up and then you split into you know one church becomes two churches uh it may not be easy because you'll have people of all kinds attending you know different personalities different mindsets so just to keep splitting may not be uh an easy thing to do so that that was your main minimum point that I was making yes ma'am thank you so much sure thank you okay uh we will quickly take up a few more questions here okay we have more questions uh yes so Abraham says please is the church structure and administration the same okay so um Abraham church structure is the uh it's like the blueprint that you have for for your uh church ministry for example you have the senior pastor and there is a pastoral team and in the pastoral team you may want to have a um you know a separation like you you have the uh I mean an APC model is like you have associate pastors now associate pastors uh are serving in various capacities so you know they oversee churches uh they oversee worship they oversee missions they uh oversee children's church so in the pastoral team you have that whole spectrum of of uh you know oversight and then below that we have ministry leaders so ministry leaders you know when it comes to workplace ministry there's a team uh who who sort of runs that whole area of uh workplace ministry there's the the women's ministry so there's a team of people there who kind of take up the events associated with that and the workers associated with that so there are the ministry leaders and then the cell group leaders so there is a structure as you can see it's a it's like a blueprint so even as the church grows we might have additional uh uh roles additional areas of ministry that come up but the structure sort of remains the same you still have the senior pastor the pastoral team the ministry team the cell group leaders you know and so on and so forth okay so that would be your structure now administration administration is the uh like you know your your systems your processes the the way you um taking people so these things that you establish for the working of your model that would be the administration aspect of it you know how you run it organizationally so that is the administration aspect i hope it clarifies uh something at this point iberha thank you thank you so much bro okay sure thank you thank you iberha yes uh we we have kennedy who had raised uh is that kennedy you can go first and then i think christopher has a question also just to add on some more time yeah i think there's a new client where you find their churches and they're very strong ministries like in the case of uh the late tv jojo uh the scorn church then he has his tv ministry where the ministry tends to overshadow the church now how would you okay so uh kennedy has said you gave the example of tv joshua and you said there is a church and there is a tv ministry yeah you have a church uh we have a strong ministry easy like you feel like the john hagin yeah he has one strong ministry that tends to overshadow the outside of the church okay let's in the case of tv joshua had the manu then we had the scorn church then he had a strong ministry of tv tv joshua yeah how how do you break this okay so you're saying the uh i'm trying to um you know get your question actually here you have your own church okay fine i get your question in our kennedy yeah i get your question okay so you say uh even though a lot of pastors may not call uh a certain ministry by me it's it's actually happening that way okay so uh we will come to that i don't know if you will touch yeah maybe we will touch on it towards the end here so uh somebody who's in the role of a pastor you know the pastor's role is oversight shepherding of the people but that pastor might have an anointing like a teacher pastor on anointing so uh apart from just the oversight of the church you know god might give that individual a ministry for the uh the nation or the different nation so you might find that this pastor he's overseeing the church but he's also you know teaching uh he could be writing books doing other things to equip people uh believers in the global body of christ which is actually all right no which is okay because if god is grace that person to do two things um that individual will be able to do it and there is really nothing wrong with that uh now yes some pastors uh like to call that that different ministry by another name okay uh maybe that's for organizational reasons i don't know uh but if you look at churches and pastors in general i think it already happens and there's nothing wrong with it because god gives you a grace to oversee your congregation but at the same time you know you could have an anointing you could have an apostolic anointing a prophetic anointing the teaching anointing where you're doing more to equip the body of christ and that's that's perfectly fine as long as uh you know we are true to both the the visions uh that god has given us does that make sense canady okay okay thank you yeah what's up where would you would you credit what kind of category which one which one where they have a combination what they have a combination what i mean is the most strong i mean the strength of the church like when the ministry meeting you get so many people they attend why don't you look at the size of that number that's smaller yeah yeah yeah so uh yeah so that could happen um but you see i don't know i mean i i wouldn't want to judge that uh you know that the ministry is doing better than the church uh i mean i i don't know uh as long as the individual has been faithful and they're doing their best for both uh the callings that god has for them or rather the grace that god has for them i think it's fine it's very hard to uh give that comparative comment that oh how come this is growing and that is not growing okay thank you sure okay yes canady thank you yes after slipper please you can ask your question uh yes pastor so last week um uh there was a question on uh you know what type of church was uh apc church and um i think broadly it was defined as a non-demo and a denominational church yes uh that is from a side i think from a structural point of view yeah and uh maybe i'm going a little bit uh beyond that i just wanted to understand is it um aligned towards you know um uh an event evangelical uh church um uh you know based on on the bible and uh you know being able to uh you know i mean the mission is to you know to evangelize and spread the word uh is that is that what apc is i mean uh is that what is apc yes yes uh christopher yeah uh yes so you're you want to know in terms of the mission of the church isn't it like what what does the church want to do okay yes that's right yeah okay okay i'm just looking okay so uh yeah the mission of the church see it's a non-denominational church we are bible based uh all right and uh aspects of like evangelism uh discipleship missions all of this are a part of what we do because we go by the bible okay the word of God so uh we don't necessarily classify ourselves uh you know just with one name like say we are evangelical or we are pentecostal or we are uh you know some other term you can use so we we try not to use those terms because otherwise what happens like you're understood that you belong to a certain category okay uh so we're just limiting ourselves to say saying that you know we we are a we are a bible based church and i think a good thing to do will be to go to uh yeah i'm just getting the link for you the statement of faith which is on our website okay and just have a look at that um so yeah we don't classify ourselves by any of the any of the um what do we call like like categories okay categories you can call mainline and legal presbyterian methodist uh pentecostal evangelical so we don't put ourselves under any of that we're just like you know based on the bible that's what i would say and i i don't know if there is a term uh to use for for that so without actually uh yeah as an independent church independent yeah you could say so we are independent yes in terms of like organizationally we are independent now you can use that term yes all right thank you yeah sure thank you so again like when we say independent right uh uh all these terms have a certain definition and people understand it in a certain way uh now independent wouldn't mean that we are we are not well connected to other ministers in the city or you know other ministries in the city uh we do believe that for accountability we must have good relationships with ministers and ministries in the city uh so you know over the years pastor has tried to do that and you know we as a team believe in that and we continue to uh establish uh good relationships with other ministers of God so uh yeah independent doesn't mean that hey you know we are not accountable to anyone uh but we do believe in connecting with other ministers of God and we let them speak into our lives as well yeah so just uh an additional point over there all right good questions everyone it's good to think uh generally the first few chapters in the the house of God course end up you know taking more time because uh the class wants to understand you know how this works so i'm happy that you are not thinking so any other thoughts before we jump into the next topic okay great so yes we've understood that uh churches can have different structures uh and uh you know based on the on the structure God would help that particular church to disciple the people and at the same time have an impact uh on the city and the nation so if you look at church history uh you could i mean you can study it in depth but we we don't uh we don't want to get into it uh you know in a deep way uh but just going over the history we've noticed that there has been uh uh reformation in the church structure over a period of time uh and uh in the 1400s you know there was this restorative movement where uh the theology that people believed in that uh got transformed so you have uh Martin Luther as one of the leaders who helped people think differently but but around the 1400s people were into indulgences and you know there was a very huge division between those who uh were clergy and those who were lately and the later did not even know the bible they did not even read the bible and the concept of grace uh was was not taught to them but it was Martin Luther who came and he brought in a reformation that's what's called as a reformation uh in the knowledge uh of uh God okay so so there was a reformation in theology uh and uh because you know people were invited to read scripture and uh and develop their thought process uh you know eventually you find that the way church was done kind of began to change so the 1800s you find more of reformation in terms of uh the spiritual understanding of of things so in the 1800s you have moves of God where where healing movements took place and largely healing the understanding on healing uh was transformed okay so uh even things changed in the in the body of Christ uh and then moving forward so you would hear more of uh uh meetings you would hear of you know large crusades you you would hear of tent meetings and things like that happening in the 1800s and then you know later on uh there there was more like church and structure based uh uh changes that kind of started emerging and that is still happening even till today you know we looked at various kinds and types and systems of of uh administration that that can take place in a church so it's still evolving and people usually tend towards whatever government is suitable for their community of people now uh this is important a good structure is important because you know uh only then the church can grow uh uh and in the long term right you can equip people and these people can become mature and strong in the Lord and they can go ahead and uh take part in the ministry that God has called them to do so uh when we study the word of God you know we we learn that the saints are to do the work of God's ministry okay this is in Ephesians chapter four versus 11 and 12 so uh the reason why God has established the five-fold ministry is to equip the saints to do their ministry so what we see happening on the earth now is people are aware that each one of them has a grace and a call okay now they everyone is not called to five-fold ministry offices but every believer is called to do something for the kingdom of God okay so the ministry is through the saints so currently you know there there is more of equipping the saints that we talk about where every believer everyone who who is a part of church you know is growing in God's word it is growing in understanding their own ministry and stepping out in their own ministries and this is done as an integral part of a local body of of God okay so as a part of the local church now every believer stepping out into ministry doesn't mean that you know they they have to be separate from their local church we can all be part of the local church be accountable to one local church and still be serving in the capacity that God has called us to serve so equipping the saints that's what we are seeing happen across the earth yeah and we also notice that you know there are a lot of apostolic apostolic churches that are that are rising up so apostolic churches would mean that you know the the people grow to a place where they then step out and they take the word of God around the world and they plant churches very similar to what you see happening in the early church okay so there is that whole journey that we've seen happen in church structure and if you look at you know various forms of church structure that still exist you have denominational non-denominational independent and all of that but more and more you know the understanding of the apostolic seems to you know we seem to be gaining that revelation and a lot of churches seem to be moving in that direction okay so with that I will stop here let's take a break 10 minutes of your stopping now at 9.52 so we will be back you know at 10 or 2 and continue from where we have left okay see you soon everyone thank you