 Hello and welcome to Wrecked, the Michael Rectum Wall podcast. And this is episode one, and today I'm joined by a special guest, John Kleizig. John Kleizig has an MA in English and has taught college rhetoric and research documentation, argumentation for over a decade. His scholarship concentrates on the history of global eugenics and Aldous Huxley's dystopian novel Brave New World. He is the author of a great book called School World Order, The Technocratic Globalization of Corporatized Education. And he is a contributor to Unlimited Hangout, a great publication. The activist post, the Center for Research on Globalization, and many other publications. And this should make you a little wary. John is also a black belt in classical Thai Kwan Doh, so don't mess with him. And he also a certified kickboxing instructor under the International Muay Thai Boxing Association. So if things get rough, John will be kicking his way out of this. Let's get started. Hello, John. How are you? How are you doing? How are you doing, Michael? Thanks for having me. Great to have you. So your work in education, in particular, the School World Order book, deals with public education. And so what I thought we'd do is take a look under the hood of public education. In other words, as anti-statists, we definitely do not prefer public education. It's a means of indoctrinating students and creating little, good little statists. But you have a lot of documentation and you've done a great deal of historical study and some futuristic projections into the public education system. So why don't you tell us a little bit first about like public education and its history? So public education, at least in the United States, starts somewhere around mid-19th century. And basically it has two main functions. One is basically to develop a citizenry. And so it has a political angle. Another is to develop a workforce that has an economic angle. John Taylor Gatto in the Underground History of America basically refers to this first beginning of public education under horseman was basically one of the premieres that sort of brought it about as the beginning of compulsory education. And then from there, we sort of have a couple of different phases throughout the history of American education that basically goes from compulsory education to a process of federalization and then to a process of corporatization in which the state and the corporate sector merge. And then my book takes off where technology sort of drives that to its logical conclusion into something that Ray Kurzweil will call the singularity. Let's talk a little bit about the kinds of pedagogy that has been informing public education from the outset. Some of the pedagogical philosophy behind it. I think Dewey and Mann and others, especially important there. Let's talk about that ideology and pedagogy and just what kind of people is this system has, what kind of people has this system been trying to produce? So a lot of my research also focuses on how the order of skull and bones, which is a Yale secret society of fraternity, how they have been instrumental in setting up not just a compulsory education system, but also a pedagogy that's rooted in Hegelian collectivism and then also a methodology that utilizes stimulus response psychology in order to condition students to have the appropriate politically correct thought processes and also the appropriate workforce skills. So it's basically a mix of Hegelian collectivism with a Vuntian stimulus response psychology would be the pedagogy and the methodology. And again, the goal here is to basically use use the psychological conditioning in order to inculcate the various citizenry into a larger politically economic collective that builds essentially a controlled workforce that serves the state. Excellent. Oh, that's great. So now some of the technologies of late that have been that are being introduced, well, you've done work on some some technologies in terms of, you know, not just the behaviorist methodologies, but also the kind of technique that has been appropriated by education, what's it called educational technology or something like that? Yes, the broader use of little euphemism ed tech is sort of the truncated buzzword for all things educational technology. And in my book, I sort of break it down into three broader classes and then sort of a fourth class that sort of integrates the other three. So the first three classes are the adaptive learning course where the socio emotional learning biofeedback wearables. And then there's this other burgeoning trend called precision education, which basically is going to use various genetic screening technologies in order to cap a student's their their learning based on their genetic IQ effectively. Okay. And the data that'll be extracted from these three three categories of ed tech, especially the first two, the adaptive learning course where in the socio emotional biofeedback wearables, those are going to be data mined to enhance artificial intelligence in the in the limited sense of ed tech, but also in the broader sense of the goal of developing an artificial general intelligence, and that eventually something like Elon Musk's neural link would interface the populace with with that broader artificial intelligence through the Internet of Things in the Internet of bodies. Right. So let's let's just define a few of these things. Well, let's let's backtrack a little bit before we go further on on this track and talk a little bit about the role of, you know, eugenics and, you know, neo Darwinism and, you know, social Darwinism in in the education system coming out of, you know, the Germans that you you've talked about and Dewey and so on. You could talk a little bit about like what role has eugenics played, you know, connected to the IQ test, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So in in my book, I cite John Taylor Gatto's work quite frequently, and in particular, one of the citations that I reference, and there's an essay in there called against schooling. And in this, he breaks down the five principles of education that were published by Alexander Inglis, who was the head of the faculty education faculty at Harvard at the time. And one of the principles is the selective function. And so he's basically using that term playing on Darwin's idea of natural selection. So one of the principles of education is to sort of weed out the so-called unfit from the reproductive sweepstakes. And one of the ways that you would do that would be essentially to create sort of a social hierarchy within within the class structure. And one of the one of the metrics for who should be, you know, considered unfit was had to do a lot with IQ. And so and so based on these theories, though, there became something called in the early 20th century year precision education. And it's a play on something called precision medicine and precision medicine is basically a push, I think was Obama that came up with the precision medicine initiative. But it was a it was an angle to convert all forms of medicine, all health care to be personalized based on genetics. So just just take that out of the health care industry, move it to the education industry. And basically you're going to personalize the students education based on their genetic IQ metrics, which is essentially comes directly out of the the whole eugenic leveraging of the Simon's Benet IQ tests. Some of the early tests that substantiated the Simon's Benet in terms of eugenic classification had to do with in Indiana. There was the cases of the the Jukes and the Calacaques. And there was, I think it was the final in school for the feeble minded and the guy's name, I believe, was H H God or the guy that ran it. So so today, precision precision education basically comes out of this whole idea of mental hygiene eugenics. So what do you think the overall function of all this is just to stratify the pop, the workforce to stratify the labor outputs that are expected here, or is there something else going on? Yeah, effectively, I believe that's the case, you know, essentially to create a caste system. So we've touched on sort of some of the biometric basis for this for this caste system. But when we dig into the psychometrics and look at some of the other ed tech devices like the adaptive learning course where the biofeedback wereables fit into the equation, the caste system is as much psychometric as it is biometric. But it's basically just, like as you know, stratify a workforce in terms of the necessary hierarchy of basically worker bees feeding into sort of the the board hide mine run by this sort of corporate government, AI, technocracy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's talk about that a bit. You're suggesting and you said this before with reference to Hegelian element that there's a collectivism under this Can you speak to that a little bit? What what is collectivist about it? And how does that how does that impact the pedagogical methodologies? Well, so one way that we can see the sort of the manifestation of the the collectivist Hegelianism through education would be through some of the SDGs at this point. And I believe it's SDG number four that focuses on education. And one of the sub points, you know, you have four point one through however many under that under that particular. Let me just point out that these SDGs come out of the agenda 2030. These are sustainable development goals of the United Nations agenda 2030 project. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And most people when they hear that, right, they think like, well, so all things environmentalism, right? So in other words, you know, green technology, storing the environmental resources, maybe regulating certain industries. But what a lot of people may not be aware of is that they also have a broader economic program for reducing poverty through what they call stakeholder partnerships. They literally use the stakeholder capitalism language. But then there's also provisions for education. And in there, again, I believe it's I believe it's SDG number four. And one of the sub goals is to create a global citizenry, right? In other words, everything that somebody learns in a given school in a given nation state should ultimately condition them to be good global citizens in the larger stakeholder capitalist world economy. So that's that's that's one way that we can see how this sort of collectivism how it pans out through the education system. Yeah, excellent. So, yeah, let's just let me just say a few things here about stakeholder capitalism, where this comes from, in case you're not familiar. Stakeholder capitalism is the brainchild of the World Economic Forum, in particular, Klaus Schwab. I think he founded that idea in really in 1971 in his book Corporate Enterprise Management and Mechanical Engineering, of all things. And in this book, he buries this little nugget of stakeholder capitalism, which is this new supposedly new form of capitalism in under which corporations no longer simply serve to make profit for their shareholders, but are supposed to serve all of their stakeholders. Inclusive of, you know, the community, you know, the workers, the customers, but also the planet. And so really this stakeholder regime, and it's being driven largely through the Environmental, Social, and Governance Index on the stock market and in banking, the stakeholder regime is I have argued is a form of, it's a demarcation device in order to basically starve out particular players from the economy by directing all capital investments towards compliant corporations and companies. Would you add anything to that, Jake? Yeah, well, one thing that's worth pointing out is that in about 1973, so during the third annual meeting of the World Economic Forum, this was the meeting at which Klaus Schwab pitched his stakeholder capitalism project to the WEF, but this was also the same meeting at which Aurelio Petschi, who was a co-founder of the Club of Rome, pitched the premise or the thesis of the Limits to Growth Doctrine, which is basically this neo-Malthusian environmentalist project that becomes the impetus for the SDGs. Both of those were pitched at the same annual meeting, and it's worth noting here that also in attendance there, as I believe it was the honorary sponsor, was the founder of the Bilderberg Group, who was Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, and he was a former Nazi SS. So the convening of these three people together sort of demonstrates that the stakeholder capitalism and sustainable development go together hand in hand with this corporate roundtable mode of global governance. Yes, let's get into a little bit of that about some of these globalist organizations you've mentioned, which I've treated in my book, and you did a lot of the research for me on the Great Reset and the Struggle for Liberty, these globalist organizations beginning with the Royal Institute of International Affairs or Chatham House, Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderberg Group, the Club of Rome, the World Economic Forum, and the Trilateral Commission. What can we say about these organizations and what their impact, what kind of impact they're having on governance globally and on the economy in particular, since we'll take a little segue into this discussion on globalism and what these organizations' agendas are, how they are influencing global governance and likewise national government, et cetera. Yeah, so the precursor to all those would have been what Lord Milner called his roundtable groups, and he actually had a publication called the Roundtable, and these were sort of stemmed out of Cecil Rhodes' Rhodes Trust and his Rhodes Society. So Cecil Rhodes set up the Rhodes Society basically as a program to indoctrinate colonial intellects into becoming Anglophiles so that they would basically come back and propagate and promote and enforce British imperialism in their home colonial states. And the Roundtable organizations were basically these groups, think tanks, NGOs, you would call them nowadays, where in those given nation states, those colonial powers, there would be a meeting of all sectors of the economy and the state, so heads of state, business people, heads of media, perhaps religious figures, and these people would sort of come together in brainstorm ways to plan the global economy in line with sort of British imperialism. After the World Wars, or to begin with after World War I, you had sort of the shift what Carol Twigley calls to the Anglo-American establishment. And so in many ways, this is where this is why the RIIA or Chatham House Royal Institute of International Affairs had basically a counterpart developed at the same time, and that was the Council on Foreign Relations. So this was basically the American counterpart to the British Chatham House. And this also marks the point at which the American power basically becomes the superpower or the rise of the American superpower. And so in many ways what you see is sort of the British imperial project sort of morph or merge into the American project. And through these satellite roundtables, they started to basically, I guess today we call it diversify or branch out. And so after World War II, you had the Bilderberg group set up, and that was largely the focus of that was mainly to sort of galvanize or collectivize all of Europe into what is now the EU. And then later on, the Club of Rome is set up in the late 60s, and this Club of Rome is largely focused on all things environmental, so global environmental projects. So that brings in sort of the environmental angle to the political economic planning that was part of the previous roundtables. Then the World Economic Forum is a few years later is set up. It was actually at the time called the European Management Forum, so it was sort of set up more in line with the Bilderberg group, but then quickly branched out to sort of include more of the non-Western nation states into the planning process, and that the Trilateral Commission basically sort of does the same thing with a heavy emphasis on relations between Western powers and East Asian powers. And so when you get to the modern era here, what we have is something like the World Economic Forum where as you and I put together in that chart in your book the Great Reset and the Struggle for Liberty, we have representatives from all over the place, and not just representing either the British Empire or the Anglo-American establishment, but truly like a global diversified powerhouse. Multicultural, multilateral kind of... kind of trying to represent the idea that all these people, these exotic peoples from their standpoint, are representing the whole globe in some sense, and likewise their project, which is an englobalist agenda, doesn't look like it's being superimposed by some centralized European elite. It gives the appearance of buy-in from these peoples. I think it's a very thin scrim to hide their overall globalist single-world government objectives. Yeah, and as we also found sort of digging into the mission statements, the updated mission statements of even the British Royal Institute of International Affairs and the Council on Foreign Relations is this emphasis on DEI, this emphasis on diversification and equity and including all these other nation-states or representatives of these non-Western nation-states even into the earlier roundtables that were set up from an Anglo-American perspective. And as you demonstrated in your presentation at the most recent American Freedom Alliance conference, what you have on the board, the boards of all of these roundtables that we noted was at least one high-level Chinese national who had their hands often in investments in other American corporations or were perhaps members of the Chinese Communist Party itself. So, you know, what I see in this next phase here is sort of how I describe the shift from the British Imperial Project to this Anglo-American project, which in many ways at least looks different or has a different spectrum of representatives in terms of its member states is a similar shift going to be from basically this Anglo-American establishment to what the World Economic Forum is calling the multipolar world order, which in my opinion is basically just a euphemism for a one-world order of which China is the model and which will essentially be the new core of that new global governance system. Yes, I agree. China is definitely the model. They've said that clearly. Marie Strong said it. Recently, Schwab said it on official Chinese TV. He said that China is a good model for many countries so that was a sort of mix between Schwab's German and Chinese accent there. But anyway, the idea there is that, you know, China is, what do they like about China? They like the idea that they have sort of oligarchical corporate power on the top with, you know, profit production for a few and a kind of static economic order and a kind of, you know, kind of technological control and surveillance over the population. This seems to be the model, don't you think? Yeah, I like the sort of the dialectic that you showed between sort of demonstrating the shift from like Maoist style communism to what Xi Jinping calls Chinese, I think it's socialism with Chinese characteristics, yeah. Right, and basically what you show is that that's basically a process by which the Maoist form of communism integrates modes of market capitalism or what we might call fascism and sort of puts these two together into this technocratic blend while on the other end of the spectrum, right, we sort of are doing just the inverse, right? So we have this market economy and we're slowly bringing in these collectivist sort of socialist communists, otherwise, statist methods of control of the economy, one of the impetus that we're seeing now is effectively the ESG scoring. Right, yeah, the ESG is just a, it's a demarcation device for admitting corporations, companies into this approved regime of these approved producers and it's not statist directly, I mean it's extra governmental in a sense because it's using corporate coercion in order to force this regime on these corporate players and then of course it's followed up by my executive fiat in government and legislation but I think it's pre-legislative, when you think? Well, yeah, I mean this might actually sort of bring us back to the school topic too because part of what is going to enforce that system and we've sort of seen companies as of late with the whole Bud Light thing, right? Want to, you know, virtue signal their inclusivity just because they think it's good PR clearly it wasn't for Bud Light but more so that it's good for their ESG score which seems kind of like this tug-of-war between the actual consumers and sort of the PR disaster on that end of the sort of the dialect but then at the same time they still have this incentive to meet the ESG scores and so it'll be interesting to see how this plays out but you know, another element again going back to the schools is that the people who are put in the CEO or other executive positions to basically make the decision do we want to go with pleasing the consumer or do we want to make sure our ESG score is high? I mean those, a lot of those people they're coming up through an education system where they've been effectively indoctrinated with woke, identitarian politics for, you know, their entire life for the most part and so that is its own sort of like pre-legislative enforcement mechanism because it's sort of enculturated in their outlook and they bring that to the table before they even have any pressure placed upon them from the consumer or the ESG scoring. Yeah, that's right. It's kind of like there's a battle between finance capital on the one hand and consumer capital on the other. I mean the finance capital is what's driving this ESG. People like Larry Fink dictating terms, telling companies if you don't make this ESG bar if you don't, you know, cut the ESG score basically you're out because we're going to see, as he called it a tectonic shift of capital toward these ESG compliant companies and away from these others. So this is a, this is not the state per se but it is the establishment and they have then of course state repercussions or follow-up with this. I think that it's the best way to put it. It's kind of like the state comes along afterwards and effectively legislates this after the fact, after these corporations have been coerced into this regime. And I think you're right. These corporations, all these major players they've been indoctrinated through education and they've been brought into this regime over many years and through public education or even private education in the university systems which is completely completely sold into this kind of thinking so this kind of perpetrates itself. You don't even need to legislate it really. Yeah, I've been recently in contact with some of the undercover mothers which is an organization that has been exposing a lot of the ills of the school system a lot of the woke stuff and in particular what I find particularly important about some of the work that they've done that I wasn't even fully aware of has to do with how the private school system and not just the private school system but like the elite private school system like the Groton school like Hotchkiss those types of schools where the elite are basically brand you know Charlotte's dad went to Hotchkiss and so did you remember Yeah, Charlotte Isherby, right? Charlotte Isherby Yeah, Charlotte Thompson Isherby wrote the forward to my book wrote the liver dumbing down of America 700 page book on the federalization of education and globalization pretty much the foundation of most of the research that goes into my book but you know her dad who was Skull and Bones, right? The Hotchkiss, well, you know apparently through the accreditation systems for the private schools the National Association for Independent Schools would be one of the accrediting agencies that they promote and they push right DEI and you know all the woke critical theory stuff that we see at the public school level so a lot of people think well I'll just go to a private school but through the accreditation system basically you have the same system and so it's not just that you know the worker bees are sort of being indoctrinated with this this sort of ESG mindset but as early as the you know the youth of the elite they're also being indoctrinated and so you know these are most likely going to be the people that are the CEOs or the trustees or the presidents and so they're bringing it there from the top down and the bottom up together, yeah. Yeah and it would seem these elite institutions and the indoctrination of these you know elite subjects would be even more important than getting the working classes involved because after all they're not going to make any decisions even though we're called you know workers are called stakeholders in this regime they have really no say whatsoever about any of this and nobody vote you know they haven't voted on the Paris climate accord and they haven't decided that this is the way things should go economically and they're going to pay for it tremendously you know in energy costs and all kinds of transitions away from so-called fossil fuel use and you know all kinds of taxes they're going to be paying for these you know transitions to renewable energy they're going to pay for that renewable energy and they're going to pay taxes for the for the the subsidies for those renewables so this is enormous anyway well yeah one of the things she also noted was that she's got some kids this is one of the undercover mothers that are in in I think I forget which school it's not important but they were studying economics and she was saying that you know the math that they're doing she's like this is not the type this is not up to par with the type of math you need to run to be any sort of economists worth their salt and the thing was that you know we sort of discussed it and you know why do you need to have the mathematics for the economics if you're essentially in this system as you know we're effectively you don't have to worry so much about are the consumers going to buy it right are the markets going to be ready for you're not looking at that and you're just looking at am I going to be attracting enough finance from the top down and then whether or not anybody buys it it doesn't matter because my ESG score makes my my stock go up and it keeps me basically afloat so you don't really need to have traditional market economics to run a company under ESG scoring because everything is guaranteed a priori exactly except of course you know this will flop and I mean this is unsustainable technical economically it can't work for long so it will implode but it will exact tremendous pain in the process and it could drag on for decades before it finally completely collapses yeah and I think that's I think the reason why they're so willing to sort of ram this through at this point in history is because if they were to do that under in a society that doesn't have the control grid the social credit system that they plan to have fully installed very soon you know there would be lots of unrest and lots of repercussions that right might not go so well for the people who hold the power whether corporate or government but right if you basically do a control demolition of the economy and guarantee that you your company sits perched on top of the hierarchy through this ESG system and you have the social credit surveillance creating place well I think they assume that what is the average person going to be able to do about it so as it implodes they're still going to be forced to have to comply with their own ESG social credit score they're not going to have any alternative markets to go to and if they try to go outside of either of those paradigms they'll be all sorts of automated repercussions you know and perhaps even maybe label you a terrorist or something else to sort of pre-crime you or disappear right this is where the fourth industrial revolution comes in of course is once they establish this sort of goes back to this kind of a caste system through this ESG and through the stakeholder regime which is ironically built as something that benefits all stakeholders but everything they say is really the inverse of the truth we know that so isn't it something that now the technology comes in this is where all of the surveillance technology all the fourth industrial revolution technologies which some of which you've already referred to like the internet of bodies the metaverse even and the transhumanist technologies like brain cloud interfaces and all of these things are I think the way I look at it is these are these are the technologies that are meant to you know contain the social body after this kind of reset has been enacted definitely the goal here is it's basically a giant skinner box right so what I did mention before is that adaptive learning course where it literally comes out of BF Skinner's teaching machine so he used to have these he took the idea of stimulus response psychology so all learning or all behavior can be reduced to a person's physiological responses to environmental stimuli so basically he just took that concept and converted the environmental stimuli to learning stimuli so whether it be question answer multiple choice short answer matching something like that and he had an analog system you put it on gears on a wheel of a tape sort of like a like an old style view master it's got two slots the learning stimuli is on one slot you scribe your answer on the other turn the gear you get automated personalized response some of them would dispense chocolate to reinforce the behavior so you just take that and digitize it convert the gears and wheels to windows on a computer you can click the the knob to a click on a mouse maybe you game on find it a little bit so you have some of those don't be triggers with the reward system being through any of the digital badges you can earn by winning the learning game maybe put some videos in it but basically then take that concept take it out of the school and just sort of put it into the broader market and incentivize particular behaviors with whether they be monetary rewards or punishments but they can also just restrict your access to the market right you can restrict your access to travel and we saw with sort of the covid jabs right you know if you didn't have your jab you know I still haven't been in a classroom since then I have to be online in order to work there because right that was one of the incentive incentives to get you to comply to whatever are the corporate government mandates so basically what you know the entire social credit system is basically just sort of creating a ubiquitous what he called the Skinner Box so that was he referred to his teaching machines as his box so literally he referred to the teaching machines as the Skinner Box but the original reference was to sort of the he built on EL Thorndike's puzzle box experiments where EL Thorndike at Columbia College used to put you know the pigeons and rats and the mages in the mazes and see if you could condition them to perform certain behaviors Skinner Skinner converted it and made it operant which meant instead of just could they perform a particular behavior it was could they could they perform an operation so they often have like pigeons that would like push buttons to operate a very simplistic mechanism and it was actually something called Project Pigeon with the United States military where they were worked with him to see if they could get pigeons to launch missiles they're going to pet them anyway so that's the broader that's basically the system that we're seeing here is a broader social is a Skinner Box method of social credit basically so you're saying that the social credit score which of course is you know putatively implemented in China and the pairs to be on the horizon in the West and is already sort of being introduced vis-a-vis well it will be very strongly introduced if we get to a centralized central bank digital currency won't it and social and a digital identity which is another one of these technologies of the fourth industrial revolution we would have this sort of the score system which would then effectively monitor all of our behaviors and give us a sort of an output, a reward system or punishment system that's like a giant Skinner Box effectively is what you're saying yeah I mean so you know again if you're reducing all behaviors to responses to punishments and rewards and all you have to do is make it so that every mode of societal interaction whether commercial, public, private healthcare, transportation, workforce education just assembling together for a rally if you can set up a technology grid whether through biometrics or through a digital ID tracking trace everywhere you go and everything you do then it can basically force you to behave the way it wants you to behave in all those different scenarios by either blocking your access to them when you don't comply or incentivizing maybe if you get a really high risk for credit score maybe you get a discount on some purchases which they actually do in China as well so it's basically just his whole theory of learning and behavior writ large he actually has another book called Beyond Freedom and Dignity right because for him the very notion of freedom and dignity are like these like antiquarian sort of notions almost you know anachronistic like superstitions right because freedom implies volition implies conscious implies more than just these physiological reflexes and dignity right would also be predicated on again some sort of agency or volition but for him there is none the inner monologue that you have in your head the thing that you call the self that thing that's just an illusion it's not it's ephemeral for someone like Yuval Mola Harari he literally in Homo Dennis he speculates on the nature of consciousness and at one point he says it might be nothing more than the roar of an engine as it as a plane goes through the sky which the roar of an engine is totally a byproduct right the roar of the engine does not propel the plane it has no function in making the plane get off the ground or land it's just the sound that comes after all that has happened so he speculates phenomenon yeah yeah exactly yeah so yeah I was wondering if you tied into Harari because he's the now he's of course the sage WF sanctioned sage of you know this fourth industrial revolution technology and says the human beings are completely hackable the idea of free will of history and further that Jesus is fake news so he's a very pleasant fellow and so let's take this now into the question of you know this education that we've talked about is obviously the idea here has been to produce a certain type of subject that will be completely amenable to the system that's being implemented in this case now we're looking at of course this stakeholder ESG personal personal carbon allowance social credit score system all that so just what you know and then there's the question of will is you know they're talking about the idea that they can hack us so that effectively we would become remote control subjects this is really what they say this isn't just us talking they say so that would lead our listeners I hope to think about what's our recourse here yeah so you know when I wrote the book this is before COVID and I thought I would have at least like 10 years to sort of you know sound the alarm I figured I'd sound really kooky at first but you know slowly as these things started to emerge into public discourse you know or in the commercial scene that people would be like no this is what that guy was talking about and at least have a heads up on some of the you know not so pleasant implications then COVID happened and you know I was open you know prior to that you know I'm a public educator I was hoping that you know I could try to work within the system and maybe you know wake some people up and you know maybe garner some sort of resistance right some sort of you know counter pedagogy or methodology or some reform from the inside and COVID just accelerated everything right I mean like the stuff that I thought I had years to talk about I mean because we were forced to use distance learning and everything was online and so that meant and then the CARES money came out and that gave every school millions of dollars to purchase right not just the learning management system which are the dashboards where you put all these different applications but then to also you know like for dental tech at one of the schools where you can't go and work on a person during COVID well you need a simulator right and so they had it was a silly little 2D simulator it was like literally a cartoon guy and you know they'd have some sort of symptoms that would somehow have a graphic and then you'd have to diagnose but you know just move forward into the future and we'll have metaverse stuff and you know this is sort of just getting the ball rolling so at this point you know I have to say that you know your main recourse is to get out of the public schools this isn't as much impossible and that doesn't mean that you know when you're out of it doing some homeschooling building either what they call sometimes the co-ops or the pods right getting together with other like minded families in your neighborhood helping each other just hate the homeschooling maybe find some other disaffected or open minded educators like myself who would be willing to maybe help out in whatever areas you might feel like you need some professional assistance and beyond that you know it doesn't preclude that you can't go to the school board meetings to you know still voice your opinion and potentially vote out or run for school board because even if you take your kids out of the public schools and thereby take away their attendance money which is a big bulk of the financing that they have you're still paying for those schools with your taxes so you have every right to go and you know voice your opinion about what's going on with the public schools and maybe by voting with your dollars getting out of that system starving them of the attendance money and then going and having a polite dialogue you have to be extremely careful about how you engage in these scenarios because as we've seen the Department of Justice has already attempted to label upset parents as domestic terrorists I believe moms for liberty which is listed as an old group yeah yeah by the southern poverty loss center yeah yeah so so you have to be your rhetoric your your logos is obviously extremely important that means come with facts come with literature whatever you're saying print out some primary sources maybe if it's something to do with the new federal legislation or the state legislation so you can hand out and they can see that you're not just talking you know making up conspiracy theories right but in doing so what I have the conclusion I've come to in this modern era and much of this has to do with the sort of the abdication of the classical method where we don't teach logic and grammar and rhetoric anymore and that is that most people are persuaded more by pay phones and ethos than they are by logos now the logos is what should actually ultimately convince you of something right it's the actual truth of the matter but if you come into this scenario with perfect logos but you come in right and your energy is a little too upset or hyped up even you know your tone might be off they'll immediately point the finger at you and try to call you a terrorist so you have to come in there as polite as possible so yeah so yeah for those who may not be familiar with the triumvirate of it's Aristotelian rhetoric which John has briefly lost and that is there are three elements of course there's the logos or the reasoning reasoning and then of course the pathos which is the emotive force and then ethos which is the credibility of the speaker anyway sorry I couldn't resist I've been out of the classroom so long I just wanted to take a pedestal there for a second anyway take a pulpit for a second I should say okay so those are things we I'm sorry I should I don't know why I didn't say this but you could also go to something you know if you're wanting to just learn for the sake of learning and not for some sort of accreditation you should go to something like Richard Grove's autonomy university I believe I will be developing some lectures on some lessons some lectures on rhetoric and I think you might be doing some lectures or some lessons as well so then that's another another option I should have mentioned that sorry yeah things like that and of course in our circles there's Tom Wood's liberty classroom the Ron Paul curriculum for K through 12 and others so yeah that's that now what about the adult world where we're fighting out the you know the ESG we're fighting the we've been told now there's going to be a new disease X coming down the CDC has told us about disease X that's next and the social credit score the whole nine yards with the and the whole ESG regime the climate change rhetoric and argumentation and policy which is going to be coming down on us very hard if things don't change what about how do we oppose these things I've given a nine point plan in my book but I'd like to hear your thoughts yeah so that's I mean each of those angles might take a slightly different strategy I always say that the first and most important is you know regardless of whatever five nine ten point platform program I could offer none of that is going to make a whole lot of difference if we don't in our daily lives make an effort to minimize our usage of these various technologies as much as possible and then to the extent that we use them right we need to try to use platforms applications applications devices that engage in as little data mining or data tracking as possible using encrypted applications as much as possible and I'm guilty of it I still have a gmail because everything is so busy that I'm off to have to reset all my contacts and it's so you do it one step at a time right you slowly right this month work on changing your e-mail next month work on I was told by a friend I believe you've been on your show Boye Morick that there are Android devices you can reset the operating system because otherwise Google basically is just in there tracking stuff all the time and there's ways to reconfigure the phone itself the hardware or at least the operating system so you know just not all at once but one thing at a time and then otherwise you know just you know non-compliance as much as possible as the whole you know the jab scenario I mean I'm not looking for I've heard that recently Biden required masks and testing at a recent event I saw a headline on Patrick Wood's technocracy news and didn't read a whole lot about it the sort of skin that so you know as you mentioned disease X might be coming around the corner but you know we at least I like to think that you know it was it was a lot more resistance than they planned for and that in doing so you have to stay again you have to stay as peaceful as possible because the the main goal or the the main trump card they're going to try is to label anybody that that goes outside this paradigm that resists in any way so label you're not just a conspiracy theorist or somebody who's mentally ill but quite literally a terrorist in the wake of the whole January 6th so those are the three sort of basic things I could say you know abstain from these technologies and devices as much as possible don't comply use cash whenever you can and then in the process when you go to if you're going to go to an event a rally a town hall remember the first and foremost most important thing is right do not give them any any any angle at which they could suggest or imply that you're anything other than a peaceful human being that's trying to live peacefully and freely without you know aggressing on anybody else yeah excellent yeah so yeah you you hit you hit several of the points in the nine-point plan I don't know if you've ever read it but if you've gotten a chance to look at that but yeah that the resist these technologies the first of all the CBDC the central bank digital currency which means you have to have an alternative parallel currency in place currencies in place the reason to reject the digital identity because this is how they're going to track every move we're going to reject the internet of bodies because this is a way of monitoring and surveilling on your organs and organ systems including your brain with brain cloud interfacing and we do this not because we're Luddites this is also going to cause Luddites Neoludites they're going to call us nutcases who are technophobes and all that but we don't reject the technology per se we reject the technology for the because of who's wielding and to what end right I mean this is the key yeah you could I mean so like this is one example of Fitbit right which is a basically a biofeedback wearable and it could look at anything from your heart rate to other metrics blood pressure things like that how many steps you walk today you know they could design that thing to not track the data and send it to some aggregate database for other analytics or group analytics in terms of trends across you know various fitness goals across different populations and age groups and genders like this is this is what they're dealing with it so you know again the technology itself could be useful to you and they could even offer it in a way that doesn't have all the things that are the reason why we're not we don't want to use them but you know until that happens you know the costs outweigh the benefits absolutely and I that's exactly what I what I've said and what I said in the book at this point we cannot accept these technologies because of the way they're being they'll be used in particular the way they'll be wielded to you know surveil and control us in almost every respect if not every and in some ways unimaginable unimaginable ways at this point well let's I think that we've come in a little circle talking about education and technology and you know the system that's being implemented and the means by which it's being done and the ways to resist it so unless do you have anything else you'd like to add no I think I think I think we covered the waterfront I think that was a good roundabout yeah okay great well it's great to have you John who are not familiar with your work I would point them to your book School World Order School World Order which is available everywhere and you want to give us some information on how do they how can readers and listeners I'm sorry how can listeners reach you how can they find your work best way to find me is just go to schoolworldorder.info and then on that website it's got links to all my social media you know I don't spend a whole lot of time on Twitter so if you message me on Twitter it might take me a little while to get back to you emails the quickest way I respond to all my emails sometimes it might take me a day or two but I try to get 24-hour responses but otherwise yeah schoolworldorder.info is where you can find me in my book excellent and so you also put up your articles for the unlimited hangout and so forth up there I would suppose links to all my articles you know I do some video reports every now and then I actually just recently posted a video on a new social emotional learning robot called Moxie which uses GPT-AI to not just data minors, kids language algorithms but also face scan them and then it aggregates all that data and involves this social XGPT so that might be something neat you'd like to check out I've got that on my YouTube again both of which are linked on the website and there's even a link to bibliography all the sources in that book which is 100 pages worth of them it's over a thousand well over a thousand and so yeah all sorts of good resources on that website excellent we'll put that in the show notes so we've got to have you back on there's so much more we could talk about but we only have so much time and patience from our listeners so thanks so much for coming and we'll talk to you soon you're listening to Rect with Michael Rectinwald find more episodes wherever you get your podcasts and get more content like this on Mises.org