 Good afternoon, this is My name is Henry Neufeldt. I'm head of the climate change unit at the World Agroforestry Center ICRAF in Nairobi in Kenya and I welcome you very much to this discussion forum organized by ICRAF together with FAO and While we start going through a quick round of introductions I hope that there will be more people coming in and So that we take as much time as we can for discussions afterwards The title of this session is called using climate smart technologies to scale up climate smart agriculture and forget the practices It's a bit of a tautology and I apologize Climate smart agriculture has had quite a bit of a Let's say It's it's been a very shiny kind of brand coming up It's managed to unite sort of the development the agriculture and the climate change Communities under one brand and in doing so it's raised a lot of expectations Term has been around for about four or five years. There are a couple of publications That have been put forward around climate smart agriculture of what it really is what it could be and Still we lack we still do lack a bit of an understanding of what it could actually do and this session here is Also meant to bring shed a bit of light on that question There has been a global alliance for climate smart agriculture Which was launched recently at the climate change summit in September in the in New York There was also there's also an African Alliance for climate smart agriculture and we will also talk about these Two new institutions and what they can potentially deliver In resolving issues around food security adaptation and mitigation So let me just quickly introduce our speakers first We have Alexandre Maybeck who is a senior policy officer On agriculture environment and climate change in the office of the assistant director general within the FAO Then our second keynote speaker is a Todd Rosenstock Who is an agroecologist with a craft and he investigates how smallholder agriculture affects the environment and society? And then we have Panelists here sitting next to me. We have here Sorry, where is she? I'm sorry, I cannot I can't get the name right in get in Guenya I think as she's a manager for communications and knowledge at founder pound the food agriculture and natural resources policy analysis network With 21 years of experience in policy research and advocacy Then we have Martin Bualia. He's the head of the comprehensive agriculture Africa agriculture development program cat up within neapad and Finally last but not least Austin Teebu He's been working as a land resources conservation officer at Malawi's ministry for of agriculture irrigation and water For over 10 years and he's also the FAO focal point for economics and policy innovations for CSA in the epic epic program and then We will have Richie Ahuja who's sitting here in front. He is An expert in business development strategies and spearheads the environmental defense funds engagement in Asia He will be rapporturing. He will give us a short summary at the end of the the session so without losing any more time I'm gonna ask an example to Say a few words about What climate-smart agriculture is some backgrounds opportunities and challenges and then we'll hear what? Todd has to say about climate-smart agriculture a panacea or propaganda. Okay, please Alexander so I will very briefly Introduce or reintroduce for those of you who who already know what climate-smart agriculture is what The the way we understand climate-smart agriculture in in FAO which Can be slightly different some from some of the things that are around more and more and Just extremely briefly giving examples because examples is probably the best way to understand what climate-smart agriculture could mean So once again Agriculture has to address a triple challenge more food in quantity quality and diversity everywhere for everyone Adapt to climate change and contribute to mitigate climate change The important point I think is that this triple challenge has to be seen at very various scales Global local and and households and we always need to keep in mind these various scales when you look at Systems and and what can be their contributions to climate-smart agriculture? Growing demand all over the world due also to to diet changes, but especially in some countries and and Many of these countries which are already food insecure and which will be the most affected by climate change and Globally worldwide FAO estimates that production has to increase by 60% Very briefly main effects on of climate change on agriculture production a decrease of production in certain areas a change in the geography of production between countries and inside countries and Also, and especially an increased variability of production so The the impacts on on food and nutrition security have have been well described in in the HLPE reports 2012 and now in the IPCC report recently released with Impacts on the most vulnerable countries and the most vulnerable people mainly and With impacts on food security and nutrition, which are much more than just decreasing yields Decreasing yields and the consequences of decreasing yields changes of the geography of production and so Vulnerable countries having to import and price volatility and the combination of all these effects so Agriculture can also contribute to mitigate and the way we see it In in FAO given the fact that agriculture has to produce more is to understand mitigation as a reduction of emissions per kilo of output Globally having emissions increasing less than production and also Enhanced agricultural soil carbon sinks, which means sinks above and underground So the concept has first been introduced in in 2010 It's with the title of a brochure that FAO prepared for the the Hague conference One so it's amazing how the the word is now all over the place Probably because this idea that we need to address various objectives at farm level at country level and globally is really needed and Also one other important point about the climate smart a culture approach is that it is not only Practices or systems, but also systems from an agronomic point of view But also the policies and institutions and the finance which are necessary to enable these changes So it's really the three of them with to a certain extent why I Climate smart I don't know what is a climate smart technology. I'd rather think about climate smart systems and When you try to take these three objectives together food security Adaptation and mitigation globally what we want to do is more resource efficient systems and more resilient systems But be also careful to what we mean want to mean by resource efficient systems It's not only more crop per drop It's also more income per drop more jobs per drop in the countries Where agriculture is the main source of jobs and an income for the population? Which means that it is very country local system specific the way you imagine The technologies and the way they are integrated in a system and globally what what we think is that the trade-offs are Not really between food security and mitigation or food security and adaptation But rather because between increasing resource efficiency and increasing resilience and This is where you'll have to look at trade-offs and synergies an Important point, which is why I was insisting on the various levels in the system is that We need to increase the general resilience of food systems, which means the physical Resilience environmental, but also the economy can social resilience of the system One of these dimensions being able to compensate for a certain time But not for a very long time, but for instance social protection can help farmers resist a Physical shock avoid them selling all their livestock for instance and enable them to recover afterwards But resilience has also to be seen at various levels each level being able to compensate for another The resilience of a household depends on the fact also on the fact that they are diversified The diversified sources of income, but also it can be compensated by social protection for instance Trade can play a role to a certain extent provided that there is income So that why I we were insisting on the need to understand how the various systems relate one to another Household to the farm the farm to the landscape the the farm to the food chain and all of that constitutes various food systems So really very very quickly and and you'll hear much more about it after me Understanding climate smart agriculture has to be done on the ground in the field in in in real systems So these are just examples of a brochure. You'll found you'll found downstairs where we tried to look at the Various dimensions of the impact of a technique in in other words and to come back to the title of my presentation We believe that there are opportunities to have climate smart systems more efficient and more resilient But the challenge is to be able to properly measure the various impacts of the techniques both environmentally Economically and socially and in various time frames and these are very different according to the system It's not the same if you introduce Uriah deep placement in Bangladesh where jobs are very Low-cost and you need more jobs and in China for instance Where job labor is much more costly So you need mechanized systems and and the impact on food security will be totally different in the various systems and very often what happens is that Which is what where climate smart agriculture makes a change? We've introduced a technology for a precise objective and we measure that precise objective We have the baseline on water and we and we measure how water is used Very often. We don't have the impact on economics on livelihoods on income on social issues on gender Sensitive sensitivity extra. So these are some cases where we have them Sustainable grazing for better livelihoods in China This is an interesting project because in the beginning it was introduced as a mitigation project To increase carbon sinks, but in fact it is totally Transforming the systems and the livelihood of the people and it's much more of food security and an adaptation project With a carbon finance component, but it is this carbon finance component which began triggering that the institutional changes You'll hear probably more about these went after one insisting also on the important of genetic diversity just as an example of things that that we need In order to be able to react to Uncertainties and this is another very important dimension of climate smart agriculture when we say increasing resilience We mean resilience to everything because we do not know exactly what are going to be the changes in 30 or 40 years in in whatever area landscape approach is also a key one I've already mentioned that one and I will stop here to leave the floor to my colleague Thank you So what I'm going to be talking about today is trying to answer. Oh, it's cut off. Hopefully not all of the slides are like that What I'll be talking about today is trying to answer this simple or somewhat complicated question in climate smart agriculture or propaganda or panacea And here in like this title slide this question is incredibly complicated Especially for climate smart agriculture because with climate smart agriculture what we're talking about in many cases is multiple dimensions We're talking about multiple practices here. You can see it's agroforestry intercropping Conservation agriculture improved cook stoves as well as multiple outcomes. So we're looking at nutrition security We're looking at poverty alleviation. We're looking at natural resource management And so how do we even begin to think about and begin to analyze this type of complexity? I would tend that it's this type of complexity that is largely made the in Helped spur the debate about whether or not climate smart agriculture can actually achieve some of its ambitions And it's because of this we need to pull back from some of the sort of Indi-idiosyncratic case studies and try to get to the real big issues that we can then start to bring these these topics to scale So over the next about ten ten minutes or so I'm going to be telling you about the initial results from a meta-analysis that that we've been conducting about specifically to try to answer the question of farm management practices Effect food security at an adaptive capacity and mitigation And so I was sort of inspired to take on this topic largely because I was seeing things like this in the news The global Alliance for CSA wants to reach 500 million smallholder farming households The African CSA Alliance and the NEPAD vision 25 by 25 want to enrich 25 million households by 2025 this type of effort will require a Herculean change in how we as scientists and we as development practitioners actually implement agricultural development And so but the real question here is what is the evidence base all of this type of development initiatives is Fundamentally based on the assumption that we have evidence for that improved practices CSA Will improve food security? Adaptive capacity and mitigation objectives well and also it's based on the fundamental assumption that we have some idea about the synergies and tradeoffs between these different components And so what have we been doing so far? we've been trying to make a sense of essentially what is a pile of disparate literature and So we've been doing a meta-analysis and a systematic review of 65 practices in 15 indicators And so when I say practices We're not talking about the aggregate level of agroforestry We're talking about things that farmers actually implement on the farm on the ground leguminous and inter-crop agroforestry in deep placement of urea things that farmers would actually need that you can analyze Individually and then also aggregate back up when I talk about indicators. These are indicators of food security adaptive capacity or mitigation for food security, we're looking at four main indicator categories of ranging from income productivity and In such in terms of adaptive capacity, obviously, this is the hardest one. We're thinking about things like soil quality We're thinking about gender differentiated labor. We're thinking about nutrient use efficiency water use efficiency and things like that mitigation is a little bit more straightforward Carbons sequestration greenhouse gas intensity and the like and so what we've done is essentially we Utilize discipline oriented keyword searches in the web of science database and we came up with 144,000 candidate papers and with the help of a small team and of Masters level students including Helena who's in the audience here today we went through all hundred and forty four thousand papers and Tried to see how they matched our inclusion criteria So here we were interested in whether or not there was that they had information and data on a CSA practice and a non CSA control as well as whether or not they took place in a tropical developing country So from that hundred and forty four thousand we narrowed in reading those abstracts We narrowed it down to about 16,000 papers and those papers we then downloaded the full text and further analyzed them to see if they met our inclusion Criteria that left us with a six thousand papers in which we had to actually extract data from that We thought were relevant to answering our main question, which is Climate-smart agriculture or panacea or propaganda or in other words What is the evidence based behind climate-smart agriculture so far? We've extracted data on about 20% of that and so I'll be talking about that based on the numbers that we've already extracted We presume that in the end this database, which will be hopefully ready by the Montpellier CSA conference if not a little bit later on in the year We'll have about a hundred and twenty thousand individual data points in it okay, and so if we start and so if we just start to map the Where the studies have taken place to see where and how and what information is available These are the studies that we have. This is a random sample from our 1200 studies that we've already looked at Where they where they are actually located on the map and these studies have they're talking about at least one indicator Relevant for food security adaptive capacity or mitigation. You see that it's a pretty good global distribution But if you look a little closer, you also see that there is some geographic clustering that you see that in Western Kenya And maybe around Accra in Ghana, you know, there's actually Quite a number of studies that are in a relatively small location And what so what does that mean for when we're trying to scale climate smart agriculture? Well, what it means is or what it suggests at this point is that we may have a biased data set that our Information base may be inaccurate to be able to say That this type of practice will have this type of outcome in a new location when we then go to Studies that have two practices now or two that Address two components of CSA like food security and adaptation in the same study. They the size of the data set reduces dramatically you we basically lose 60% of the studies And so why is that important? That's important because what we know from about 50 years of agricultural research and agricultural for de-met development research is that a Lot of time interventions are place-based So we can't presume that the types of interventions and the types of outcomes that we might see in one location Are going to be able to be extrapolated to another location quite easily and so these synergies and trade-offs may not actually be transmissible and Lastly if we look at studies where we have all three indicators May probably given this projector. You might not even see any up there. There's but there's a seven dots So we we basically reduced it to less than one percent of the studies have looked at all three all three components of CSA in the same study and this is this is important simply because they greatly reduces our ability to characterize what is Normally thought of within Clementsmore and agriculture, which are these triple wins these win-win wins When we start to look at the data and actually use common meta analytical techniques, so this is the Food security response across multiple indicators for six different practices at different aggregated levels And that's it sounds a little complicated, but let me let me go into a little bit more detail. And so So this is an effect size so an effect size measures the relative effect of the treatment to the control And so anything to the right of that red line is a positive effect anything to the left of that line is Going to be a negative effect if it crosses that line It's not significantly different than zero and you can you may have positive or negative control or negative effects And so basically what you see here is that there's not only a wide variability for any given practice for instance in agroforestry, but there are some Clear winners the use of inorganic fertilizer seems to be quite positive The use of increasing protein and livestock feeds as well The interesting part is is that in most cases people are talking about climate smart agriculture at a very aggregate level They're talking about agroforestry as climate smart. Well, as you can see in these top two two Panels If once you start disaggregating the data from agroforestry to actually leguminous agroforestry the actual effect changes And so I would argue that you would need to actually begin to think about it in this more disaggregate level when you are identifying things as climate smart And lastly, let's let's look quickly at some synergies and some trade-offs And so this is just the synergies and trade-offs for the adaptation and food security indicators that are already in 130 random Sample of a random sample of 130 studies So as you can see there's only 55 comparisons in that in that 130 studies so that's back to the about 60% decline that I mentioned earlier and everything in the red box in the lower left-hand corner Is where you don't want to be this is lose-lose So about 6% of the studies showed that there were lose-lose effects in between adaptation and food security And the opposite quarter in Cata cornea. There's about 32% of them show that there were actually synergies So this is what everybody is saying is possible with climate smart agriculture But equally important 60% of the studies that we that we looked at and granted it is a small data set at this point shows that there's equal or a more likely chance of actual trade-offs between adaptation and food security than there are synergies and So so while today I've just really focused on a very small amount of our initial data The emerging trends seem to be clear somewhere clear that there's geographic Clustering of the studies which would suggest that we have challenges in actually extrapolating the data There is a likelihood that we will see trade-offs as much as we would see synergies as well as that there's large variability amongst and with and Between and within individual practices. Thanks Okay. Thank you. So before we go to some questions. We'll have another round of Panelists giving their sort of views on what they've just heard also just making some statements in regard to let's say the Alliance here So let's start off with Martin and then Lami and Austin in that order and I'll ask you to be fairly brief so that we have as much time as possible for questions and answers where you can sort of Elaborate more on any issues you might want to raise. Okay. So Martin you want to kick us off, please? Thank you very much. Okay. Yes. Thank you so much Yes, I'm going to be very brief and thank you so much to the two presentations I think they do give us a very good scope in terms of the discussion Now and I pick it up from the messages key messages out of the two presentations and I would say Is it possible looking at what we've just heard in terms of what is client-smart agriculture? Is it possible then or is it correct to say that in fact? Climate smart agriculture is just any good agricultural practices Anything that is actually good and then underlying the word good is going to give us Productivity food security is going to give us adaptation is going to give us a mitigation value and sometimes when you look back into What we have described and what we've known as good agricultural farming When we say climate smart agriculture, are we saying anything different? What is new in in this? and I start by saying That yes, in fact, there is something new there is something different one of the first important issue is that In dealing with and talking about clients smart agriculture We want to go beyond just the issue of Securing productivity. So this is more than just productivity issue There is something that is actually very very clear about the threats that climate change All the opportunities that climate change Bring on the whole spectrum and space and Productivity and on the food systems. So you're looking at the Everything that we're doing in terms of farming practices or what you call agriculture and look at how far is it going to support enhancing ability to deal with the new Imaging trends and and threats opportunities that are very specific to the occurrence of climate change climate variability and this again, it's about understanding the actual risks Which are actually going are very localized is appreciating the actual opportunities that you attribute to to that climate change the second point I want to make is a Is that when you look at clients smart agriculture in terms of what is different? And in terms of those practices is actually that is something that is compelling beyond we talk about holistic comprehensive approaches, but in climate smart agriculture, we are seeing a very practical compare to look at Agriculture to look at farming in a very very integrated holistic And I like what the the moderator was saying in the beginning that is more than just clients made smart technologies But that we look at climate smart Systems because it's about your practices is about yes policies and institutions as mentioned resources But it's also about managing the trade-offs in terms of different constituencies But also the trade-offs in in the time and space So what are we doing today? Vis-a-vis what are the needs requirements of future scenario and the last in the third point in terms of The practices of claims smart agriculture is actually the value and the one issue About the claims smart agriculture is actually how much it should bring back the value the benefits into the local Circumstances both in terms of environmental resilience social resilience But today especially when you look at Africa the issues How do we support the communities to harness their resources land and water in terms of increasing access to Economic expanding economic opportunities and and actually enabling them to move in that spectrum towards a Prosperity, thank you. Okay. Thank you very much Martin We now have Fabiola Muñoz Dodero who is the executive director of the National Forest and Wildlife Service server here as well It's a pity she couldn't make it to us a little earlier because she missed the Presentations, but I'll give her that the chance of listening to their respondents So then she can make something out of that and we'll have more chances to hear afterwards. Okay. Well, thank you very much for coming Anyway, it's been it's great to have you Lami, please When I was being introduced they said that I'm working for an organization where we're working in a policy space I would like to throw that into the discourse of you know climate smart agriculture I Listen to the presentations and I also listen to the presentations before this session in yesterday What I'm seeing as a missing link It's the enabling environment that we all agree that it's part of What will make you know our efforts for climate smart agriculture to be successful? I Just want to share with you The experience that just we had with our organization where we did some scoping studies in 15 countries in Africa Southern Africa and East Africa to see how the countries are actually responding in terms of you know the climate smart Agriculture debates and also climate change What we are seeing is that that the countries do recognize that climate change is there They also respond to the to the cause for climate change and most of the discussions are hosted by the ministries of environment What we have seen with the ministries of agriculture is that Out of the 15 countries that we we we did the scoping studies They were about four or five where they have policies that speaks specifically to climate smart agriculture So as we discuss I would like us to to look at how we can actually accelerate You know really for the countries to have the enabling environment that will complement what is happening on the ground So we find you know this disjuncture that you know on the ground there are a lot of Experiences there are a lot of practices that is happening But there's a gap between what is being practiced and what the policies are saying so as we discussed We need to to also accelerate on that front Thank you very much. I mean that's a very important point and Alexander already mentioned it that we need not only look at the technologies. That's very important Austin, please just give us your your thoughts. Oh, thank you very much. I'm on the radar From the introduction, I think I'm the most tail end panelist here I am from the extension side of All these practices So I'll focus my comment on what it takes to scale up climate smart agriculture practices I like the matrix that told presented. I think it's four dimensional But as we go out in the field the matrix could become hundred dimensional When we are working with the farming communities the issues of productivity is they come in issues of costs the issues of resource-saving environmental issues or indicators and Also the institutional Indicators that we have discussed in the presentation from FAO so When we are at that level We must make sure that All those indicators are satisfied and that's the main challenge that we face in crime is smart agriculture. We have observed that those practices They do respond to as many of those indicators and the my suggestion to the method study that we are conducting and the aircraft is that we should Go on beyond the three indicators to satisfy what the farming communities need or what they expect from these practices and Finally I'd like to suggest that we have quick policy briefs to our decision-making people the politicians that crisply presents what we expect or what we suggest The winning solutions to the challenge that the farming communities are facing in the because of the effects of climate change. Thank you Thank you Austin and that's very important for us to talk about the question of scaling up I think we should hear more about that It's one thing to know the benefits in terms of adaptation mitigation and food security But then another question altogether might be how can it how can we reach these millions of farmers that? Todd was already mentioning Fabiola, do you want to say a few words with regard to climate smart agriculture and potentially your own experience here out of the country, I don't know Una ventaja es que parte de la información que se ha compartido con ustedes hoy día y yo ya la había visto en alguna otra presentación Con los colegas de Icraft y con gente de cifro y con otros que venimos trabajando En esto y una las yo quisiera comentar básicamente tres temas en particular sobre Tecnologías climáticamente inteligentes para una agricultura que esperamos Se pueda volver climáticamente inteligente la primera es el tema del reconocimiento de los saberes tradicionales que es uno de los puntos esenciales creo que estamos muy alejados del tema de Tecnologías que han sido utilizadas en el pasado y Tecnologías que están siendo utilizadas hoy día pero que en realidad no llegan a nivel de Ser asumidas por ejemplo por aquellos que tomamos decisiones entonces esta articulación entre el conocimiento tradicional Que rescate esas tecnologías apropiadas y esas prácticas culturalmente apropiadas son uno de los elementos Claves no y esto no solamente lo estoy diciendo como ministerio de agricultura y riego También esto tendría que estar por ejemplo en los sistemas de inversión Con el ministerio de economía tendría que estar en los proyectos sociales con el ministerio de desarrollo inclusión social es realmente el tema del conocimiento como se Se incorpora en la política pública el segundo elemento que que creo que Si estamos hablando de la misma matriz que yo he visto en algún momento y que ha sido presentada ahora hay una serie de buenas prácticas y de posibilidades Que se podrían convertir también en política pública pero que a veces en el estado no tenemos Una de las cosas que se ha hablado La conexión con aquellos que están haciendo investigación hay un link que todavía no hemos podido Un chip que de repente todavía no hemos podido cambiar que es cómo convertimos los resultados de la investigación En algo que informe mejor la política pública y ahí yo creo que tenemos que impulsar un diálogo más Intercultural entre esas prácticas para convertir a la política pública que promueve esta agricultura más inteligente en cuestiones prácticas la sabiduría la sabiduría práctica de aquellos que finalmente han investigado han logrado probar y que ahora deberíamos de adoptar Y el tercer tema y ahora sí voy a utilizar una sesión en la que la sesión por la que no pude estar acá Una cosa que se está hablando ahorita con ministros de de otros países es la importancia de poder incorporar a otros sectores Que influyen en el tema de la agricultura o del manejo forestal Que no son justamente ni el ministerio ambiente ni el ministerio de agricultura Entonces si en verdad nosotros queremos cambiar la agricultura en el país tendríamos que Incorporar a otros actores que también son tomadores de decisión y que definen política pública y que no son los tradicionales Justamente en esta discusión en la que estábamos uno de los de los temas que se discutía era bueno y que tiene que ver por ejemplo el ministerio de justicia en una cuesta discusión como esta o que tiene que ver el ministerio por ejemplo de inclusión social y en realidad tienen mucho que ver porque para darles simplemente una idea en el perú si un agricultor o sea si una comunidad o un pequeño va a un área y tal ilegalmente pone esa madera en un camión y se la lleva el primer puesto de control lo va a parar y le va a decomisar la madera y probablemente perdón Bueno y probablemente lo va a denunciar y van a decomisar el producto que ha sido talado ilegalmente que es madera pero si un agricultor hace exactamente lo mismo retira la cobertura forestal de un cuarto como este y pone maíz y vende el maíz nadie lo va a parar al contrario porque es un producto agrícola aunque provenga de un área que está de forestada entonces si los ministerios de justicia por ejemplo que dictan muchas normas vinculadas estos temas no entienden ese cambio en la política es difícil que podamos conseguir también desde ahí una entrada para sancionar no al que está siendo tal ilegal solamente sino al que está haciendo una agricultura que tampoco es la corrente y eso tiene que ver con un tema de educación tiene o sea hay varios aspectos y factores que entran que entran aquí no entonces creo que hay un nivel de articulación de política pública que todavía no está siendo suficientemente trabajado para lograr instrumentos que permitan tener esta agricultura climáticamente inteligente Okay, thank you so haberme perdido la presentación además I think you added a very important element and gave some more sort of depth to the question of what contributes to enabling environments from the political perspective and I think that was very useful for our audience here so we have quite a bit of time for questions and then so I'd like to take two or three questions at a time and then We'll give a give our panel an opportunity to respond I have Jonathan here in the back Yes, sir number two and we'll take one more afterwards What go ahead Jonathan? Yeah, my name is Jonathan Cornelius a question actually for For Fabiola Can you introduce yourself, please not the institution? Okay, sorry Henry is Jonathan Cornelius I'm regional coordinator for World Agri-Forty Center based here in Lima Okay. Yeah a question for Fabiola Fabiola your interesting remarks about the need to close the gap between research and policy And Coincidentally possibly In our institutions of the CGI are we spend a lot of time thinking about theories of change And how our research can change what happens To its intended or that can change What our intended Users do should we say in this case how our research can change policy what I'd like to ask you as a as a Implementer and former of Policy is to what degree The ultimate end users of research also have to come back down the the the chain of impact themselves and somewhere Meet the the scientists as they try increasingly to work forwards in in the chain of impact Hope I'm being clear what I'm trying to say is that as researchers we are being asked to be increasingly accountable For our research being implemented for example in changing policies. So What is the role of policymakers in also Coming back maybe towards researchers and for the two of us together to construct That impact that we all want Thank you Okay, please. Yes, sir, and then the lady behind him as well Thank you. I'm Doug Boucher from the Union of Concerned Scientists My question is for Todd The graph you showed had what to me was a striking and even paradoxical result, which is that a very large Quite impressive meta-analysis from the World Agroforestry Center Showed that there was no significant effect of agroforestry But you're only talking about the effects on food security What were the Significant variables that affected mitigation Okay, let's give the panel that the opportunities to respond and Yes, let's start with Fambiola and then I'll pass it on to Todd and Anybody else who wants to say something to any of the other questions, please feel free. Okay, Fambiola Okay Primera pregunta de Jonathan Si no entendí mal la pregunta es como lograr que tengamos desde el lado de los Bueno los políticos y los que tomamos decisiones en las instituciones este acercamiento con los investigadores Yo creo que en ambos lados en el lado de la investigación en el lado de aquellos que toman decisiones deberíamos tener un poco más de Humildad yo estuve hace Dos días tres días tal vez en un evento en el pentagonito en una mesa Y entonces les dije lo mismo que les voy a decir ahora que yo sí creo que es importantísimo que la investigación Nos ayude a tomar decisiones y que todas las decisiones que nosotros tomemos o Ojalá en el servicio nacional forestal y de fauna silvestre de perulas tomemos con un sustento técnico Y que una cosa me me preocupaba es que nosotros hemos lanzado hace poco un concurso de posiciones y que todas las posiciones Hemos reclutado como el 30 por ciento de esas posiciones y solamente hemos podido tener una investigadora y entonces Los investigadores no quieren entrar al estado Y eso es un problema Y claro una de las respuestas que me dieron en esa sala fue que es fácil el tema para solucionar este problema es que Los políticos prácticamente dejen de existir y que sólo los científicos sean tomadores de decisión y claro este Cuando uno escucha ese tipo de cosas igual que yo he tenido esa misma discusión Yo no sé si ustedes lo saben pero yo soy abogada Y ustedes podrán decir que hace un abogado de director del servicio forestal de un país Porque nosotros en el Perú en este momento estamos en un proceso de reforma y mi especialidad es el tema de política pública Y entonces una de las reformas que tenemos que lograr hacer es cómo se vincula justamente Generar la institucionalidad para vincular la investigación de una manera sencilla con El estado la política public Y entonces la primera cosa que creo que todos tendríamos que hacer es aprender a respetar el rol complementario de los otros Y no mirarnos por debajo del hombro ni los políticos ni los investigadores ni los economistas ni los abogados Ojalá tuviéramos por ejemplo más economistas más financistas metidos en estos temas Y creo que todos nos necesitamos y eso me lleva a la combinar la Intervención de Karina y la de Jonathan en este sentido la respuesta que reguérimos hoy es una respuesta urgente porque no tenemos mucho tiempo para tomar decisiones Acertadas y las decisiones van a estar más acertadas mientras más investigación tengamos como soporte Mientras más sustento científico tengamos y entonces ahí La pregunta es si solo nos quedamos en la agricultura y yo creo que no Justamente el tema aquí es cómo entramos Con el ejemplo que les daba desde el Ministerio de Justicia, pero también como entramos desde Educación salud Energía y minas como entramos desde todos los sectores y creo que ese es en realidad el potencial más importante de estos dos días de trabajo Que es esa mirada de paisaje Pero no solamente en el paisaje geográfico o físico sino en este paisaje que tenemos aquí Si yo les preguntara por ejemplo cuántos economistas hay aquí cuántos economistas hay aquí dos No cierto cuántos ingenieros agronomos Vaya poquito mejor cinco cuántos sociólogos dos tres Cuantos abogados Y ustedes saben cuántos abogados definen la política pública en nuestros países Pero a cuántos nos invitan Si cada uno de ustedes desde sus profesiones biologi cuántos biólogos hay ha No cierto y cuántos investigadores hay aquí Ahá no cierto miren ustedes si cada uno de ustedes se propone adoptar un abogado Se imaginan la revolución que podríamos hacer Pero eso es parte de entender que el mundo ha cambiado y que nos necesitamos entre todos hoy día mirar la agricultura fuera del manejo forestal y fuera de la economía verde y es un error Nos necesitamos y podemos discrepar y estoy segura que vamos a tener diferencias Pero la puerta está abierta para sentarnos en la mesa y esa creo que es la gran ventaja de un espacio como la cop y de este Foro de paisajes Thanks for this passionate statement on billa And I think you're totally right about everything That CC Todd why don't you just respond to dogs question? I think the important question that Follow up great Appreciate that I fail to see the paradox Mostly because I'm a scientist and I just I report with the data say and so this is the analysis that that we've done so far in the Limited data set what you see and what you saw in that graph is largely Driven by the variability in agarist forestry systems that are included there. There's border planting. There's enter crop There's there's legumes. There's timber species in all of that, which is why you see such a wide Such a wide range in the effect and so I would I would presume that before the end of the analysis when you we've included more data That you we would we would see a different effect how large that effect positive or negative I'm not I can't it's hard for me to predict right now based on my reading of the 1200 papers The mitigation effects we haven't looked at those data yet Okay, Martin do you want to say something about? the the question that Jonathan raised in the context of science and Policy I think you might be able to add a few words from your perspective Maybe put it into the context of the climate smart agriculture alliance Yes, thank you Indeed that is an interesting issue And it does come up all the time in fact in the in the Africa alliance one of the work stream We have identified where we saying we need to make a difference is on is on the on the policy We have one on the policy stream that we have one which we are calling Technical support and this is the appreciation of the fact that and I think in Africa you can say the politicians are coming quite a long way in Respecting data Respecting evidence and the beginning to talk about facts and figures and the problem is that these facts and figures data is Not existing in the form in the manner that they can actually use it at the moment And that is the problem we have so the the issue in terms of research is actually how we can Move and actually move very rapidly Not just in terms of who technology development But also support the politicians to answer the questions they need to answer in terms of real With the evidence with the objectivity that is desired And one of the things we are looking at actually as a as a matter of who approach Is that when you talk about climate smart agriculture? And and look looking at at science It's a very open space. There's a lot we need to know But it's also clear that the climate smart agriculture we're talking about in fact has implied from the various discussions It's not the same as manufacturing a kind of laboratory and then take it out on the road to be used The car the claim smart agriculture is going to be developed in situ It's going to emerge within the road that you are using it So it's how we move actually in terms of research approaches in terms of research tools in terms of the Accountability of what research delivers to actually bring them into the field Working with the farmers working with politicians working with communities and actually it's also because it's not just a technical issue It's actually the political economy and and those things will be critical in making a Climbs smart agriculture image the way we want to see it We've mentioned actually working with the seacuffs We're working with Farah and we're saying also that we need in fact just as much political economy research As we're doing on the on the hardware on the on the on the actual agronomical and technological practices Moderator if you allow me just one more point I wanted also to say that When you look at the discussions on climate smart agriculture everywhere even in these two days Of course, it's being emphasized in terms of the comprehensiveness the integrated nature of it the holistic aspects But it's also linking to research to understand that I think we have to be careful that we don't end up With a very perfect creation that is Unimplementable and and actually the the Excellency of the description of climate smart agriculture is not going to come out of a laboratory It's going to come out of real Practices in the field and I want to end by saying in fact here in that sense That's why we need to listen more from what the farmers are doing what communities are doing and actually Understand that if it's not broken don't fix it Brilliant, okay. I saw I had you sir, then I Saw you first and I don't know if you were there. So I have you three. Okay, please Introduce yourself, please Can we get a microphone? No, I saw this gentleman first. He was already raising his hand. I'm sorry Thank you. Doug Brown with World Vision International My question specifically to Todd, but I think Alexander might be able to help with it as well Your data surprised me a little bit in a way it was but I think it's partly because it's a made in a made analysis And of course you're looking at studies that were designed to measure food or Productivity impacts or at resilience impacts, but they may not have measured the other ones And so they're dropped out when you sort of start comparing to So there's a limitation there I guess but I was looking at the grid the quadra here Where you have the win-wins the lose-lose and then the mixed ones and I'm just trying to wonder I know when in The FAO source book we know that there's a lot of practices listed there, and they're not all equally Climate-smart some score better on two or three dimensions than others do so I'm wondering if you can characterize What's in the upper right quadrant versus what's in the lower The upper left versus the lower right and what practices are Dropping down to those things versus the ones which are clear win-wins Okay And yes, sir, please now you'll have to go over again. I'm sorry We have achieved climate-smart agriculture and benefited in India. Yes If you would try to be very concise Yeah, and also try to be I take two minutes and try to frame a question Later on but first I would like to congratulate Todd for bringing out a very Precise analysis of what is happening and what benefits I have accrued and if this taken further then the world community will benefit Now climate-smart agriculture we started in Gujarat, India about 10 years back and we called it as a new extension approach It is prior to agriculture season It takes place in all villages together 18,000 villages team is laid by agriculture extension administration agriculture scientist input dealer and market people and They go and meet the farmers at their doorstep Provide them information what crops they should grow in next season based on prevailing situation Three inputs are provided to farmer one is soil health and analysis, which I mentioned in the last Session that what crops their soil will sustain based on the weather parameters Second is what is market demand for the crops which crops they should select based on the market and Where the quality inputs are available? This is backed by water conservation measure at village level which is funded by the government with community Participation so not a drop of water goes out 70% of our area is rain-fed focus is on women farmers and rural youth and rural youth are trained to identify what are micro enterprises Possibilities based on local agriculture produce. So it's a comprehensive approach takes place every year prior to agriculture season and what has happened in Gujarat, India and which is now Going on all over the country The soil health card approach and everything is that we had a minus two percent to plus two percent growth rate We have now reached nine percent growth rate in ten years at constant price So almost income of farmers have doubled and on par with non-farm sector So if we follow this approach in a comprehensive manner There will be less social turmoil which are happening in many parts of world and people are trying to grab Justice my brutality. Thank you Okay, thank you very much for this comment and I'm gonna ask Your your intervention first, please Okay, my name is Talendah some Tunzi and I'm with fun up and my question is basically one on coordination taking into account that CSA is a take local level and also we have quarter the CSA alliance at at the African level How are the coordination mortality modalities? Do we have an? Implementation framework where monitoring and evaluation framework at a global level that resonates with other regions And are we following a bottom-up approach in terms of coming up with those with those kinds of frameworks? And the other quote the other question is on the on the CSA technologies. Do we have context specific CSA? Tool kit or technologies that we have to really say this is what we call climate smart Agriculture always just the three indicators that were showed here that indicate on food security adaptation and mitigation Do we have practical context specific? Tool kits that are talking to different equities in in the different regions that we are operating. Thank you Thank you very much for this excellent question. So what I would suggest is that? Alexander and an Austin you could try to respond to the Indian gentleman's point Which I think was very context specific and I think it makes sense to sort of look at the question from a larger perspective Is it transferable? Can it be done elsewhere? You know, what are the constraints and because we talk about Systems that are context specific We need to make sure that they actually fit somewhere else and then Todd if you answer the Doug's question, of course, and now me. I don't know if you want to step in also looking at the questions of coordination potentially so Alexander so the first thing is that Which is why I was saying that we're a bit uneasy with this idea of climate smart technologies and climate smart practices because it is very context-dependent it's Ecosystem dependent, but it's also socially dependent. It depends how the communities are organized it depends how the policies are supporting it depends of the economics and so From our perspective what what we need is is having more Examples of what has worked or what has not worked With the various impacts and why it has worked or why it has not worked What what what is the context which is around the object the ultimate objective would be I don't know if it would be toolkits, but Information tools knowledge platforms colleague how you want it where practitioners or actors at whatever level from governments policymakers of Development practitioners or or farmers could go and have a look at situations which are as comparable as possible to theirs or One aspect of the situation is comparable to there So that's the objective and you're right. It needs a lot of coordination. This is this event is part of it The huge work would done by Todd is an essential element of that But there is still a lot to be done But probably one the biggest from my perspective the biggest mistake to avoid would be to say, oh, that's a solution Just implemented top-down. This does doesn't wouldn't work and Not only it wouldn't work, but there is a risk of having wrong impacts in another dimensions I think one of the important thing was climate my life studies that we say in the beginning you have to look at the three things You do not necessarily need to address them at the same level the win-win-win thing is a myth Maybe but you need to look at the three and you need to know what damage you are doing in another Dimension when you want to do something and that's probably true for all natural resources issues or or even development issues, but and Yeah, maybe I'll and and this probably is part of why the quarter and and what so many trade-off because It's not the same everywhere, but probably you you'll be more able to answer that way, okay? Thank you very much. I'll start from where Alexander Has stopped on the two kids. Yes or no In some areas we are trying to draft some two kids all Some messages on climate-smart agricultural practices. I'll give an example of the epic projects in Vietnam Zambia and Malawi where we have looked at the We have started looking at the trade-off trade-offs in terms of medication All those triple wins medication food security and adaptation and we have isolated some Examples or some practices that are fitting where within those win-win-win We are also doing some institutional mapping on how to move on or outscale these practices and we have We are also doing some policy harmonization. I think my colleague Shema indicated that the in some areas or some regions We have a gap between the environmental sector and the agricultural sector From policy and institutional setup on how to handle the issue of agricultural Practices that are climate smart From my colleague from India That's a very good example that he has indicated and the I'm happy that a few months ago I was in Mahastra and I observed the same best practices Only what they were calling the advisory services Within Mahastra, they were able to combine the water budgets the hydrometh services the weather focus the available water for irrigation the onset of the rinse and the Prevading economic and social conditions the markets The agroecological conditions the soil fertility to precisely advise the farming community on how they can Modify or improve their farming system and I really agree with him that it has really improved to the productivity of the farmers, but also The resilience of the farming system