 Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners. Thanks to all of you, including Mark Gibson, Reed Fishler, and Michelle Serju. Coming up on DTNS, DuckDuckGo's exception for Microsoft tracking makes sense. The copyright implications of Seth Green getting robbed and why a Gen Z social network is forcing facial recognition. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, May 25th, Tau Day, 2022 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. In Salt Lake City, I'm Scott Johnson. And I'm Roger Shane, the show's producer. I accidentally wore my Hitchhiker's Guide 42 shirt yesterday on the show, a day before Tau Day. So now I'm wearing my Aperture Science. You're kind of a 43 kind of guy. Still a geeky day. Still a geeky day. Shall we start with a few tech things you should know? Twitter co-founder and former CEO, Jack Dorsey, stepped down from the Twitter board of directors on Wednesday. The move was announced when Dorsey stepped down as CEO. But it became official today. It's an end of Menera as Dorsey has been involved with Twitter in some capacity since its founding back in 2006. Yeah, setting up my Twitter account was the first week from Dorsey. IKEA announced the Dirigara, a new matter-ready smart home hub. It includes radios for Wi-Fi, ZigBee, and Thread. At launch, it will connect through wired ethernet. But eventually, because it does have a Wi-Fi radio, you'll be able to connect to a router over Wi-Fi. It launches in October and will be, quote, a little bit more expensive, end quote, than IKEA's existing $29 trod-free gateway, but hopefully cheaper than the $69 billy bookcase that many people will place it on. The company also plans to launch its own cloud network to handle the remote smartphone access of things by the first half of 2023. Apple will require all app store apps that offer in-app account creation to offer also account deletion by June 30, 2022. Apple initially announced this policy change last year, but moved back the deadline twice, and now we've got another one. You've had your time to adapt. It's coming. Here we go. Nvidia plans to release liquid-cooled versions of its data center PCIe accelerator cards. These are the A100 and the H100. Those are coming in Q3 and early next year, respectively. A100 and Q3, H100 early next year. These will use only a single slot as opposed to air-cooled options that use two slots, and they're gonna use an open-loop system to integrate into a larger liquid-cooling setup. Nvidia claims the cards will reduce power costs by 28%. The Electronic Frontier Foundation launched HTTPS everywhere back in 2010 as an extension to force your browser to use a secure connection whenever it's available. Since then, browsers have gotten pretty serious about HTTPS to the point of shooting out warning screens if a site doesn't offer a secure connection. Happens to me many times a day. Since all major browsers offer support for HTTPS-only mode, the EFF considers its work in this area done. HTTPS everywhere will sunset in January of 2023. Ah, another end of an era. Dorsey and HTTPS, both ended in the same day. All right, let's talk about that DuckDuckGo thing. Yeah, so DuckDuckGo, many of you know it, many in our audience use it in some capacity. It's made a name on protecting user privacy, privacy first, and has heavily emphasized that exact thing, especially in its marketing. So it was a little unsettling to many when security researcher Zach Edwards discovered that DuckDuckGo's browser isn't blocking all advertising tracking requests from Microsoft on non-Microsoft sites. His example was Facebook workplace sending data to Bing and LinkedIn domains. Yeah, remember, we're talking about the browser here. We're not talking about the search engine. DuckDuckGo's search engine promotes itself as completely anonymous. DuckDuckGo syndicates search result from Microsoft and works with Microsoft to include ads that are contextual based on the search terms you type, but they are not associated with a profile of you. That's how the search engine works. Yeah, but DuckDuckGo also makes a browser, and it might be a browser that you use. It doesn't promote as anonymous. So it's not exactly lying here, but you might not totally understand what's going on behind the scenes. Instead, it promotes the browser as blocking most third-party trackers. And it not only blocks third-party cookies and attempts at fingerprinting, but also proactively stops third-party ad scripts from loading. And one of those scripts from Microsoft is what Edwards found wasn't blocked. So he and others asked, why is Microsoft being treated differently here? Well, DuckDuckGo founder Gabriel Weinberg posted on Twitter that that search syndication agreement that I just mentioned with Microsoft happens to include some clauses that prevent DuckDuckGo from blocking Microsoft scripts on third-party sites from making ad requests. Now, if that's something that DuckDuckGo thought would bother people, why wouldn't the company have mentioned this before? Maybe they didn't think it would bother people, or maybe they didn't think people would find out. I don't know, Weinberg told TechCrunch, quote, our syndication contract has broad confidentiality requirements and the specific requirement documents themselves are additionally explicitly marked confidential. So the implication from that is we couldn't tell you. The fact that you discovered it means we can acknowledge it because it's there, but our agreement with Microsoft prevented us. He didn't come out and say that though, he's just heavily implying it. Weinberg also told Bleepy Computer that DuckDuckGo is working to get the Microsoft agreement changed, and it also plans to change its app store descriptions to reflect the Microsoft exception until it does get a change, if it can get a changed. Well, Scott, I know you've been using the DuckDuckGo browser for Mac. In light of this news, does it change how you feel about it? How do you feel about it? Well, I really like DuckDuckGo as a service and search engine, which as Tom pointed out, and it's important to point out that that's how things started for them and for about the last four and a half years or something, I've been exclusively DuckDuckGo searching. I don't use anything else, including Google, for all my searches, and I've been very, very happy with it. When I found out they had a browser, I immediately put it on my phone because it didn't look like it was available for desktop. Turns out it is, but only in limited beta. You have to sign up for it, which I did, and I got it and I really like it. It's screaming fast and very lightweight. It's still in beta and often browsers at launch are kind of lightweight and screaming fast until they start adding features that people request. So we'll see in the long run if they maintain the speed that I'm currently experiencing with it, but it has one feature I really like. I can't show this on screen with the Mac version and those at home listening, I'll just describe this, but you can see it on my phone, I got eBay up. There's a button down here, it looks like a little fire. I hit that button and watch what happens. Well, the audio people can't see it. So what happens? Yeah, so let me describe it for those folks at home. Most of the people are just listening and what happened. Yeah, that's why I said that earlier. But anyway, the fire goes crazy and fires up the screen and destroys anything you had open. If you had 20 tabs open, 30 tabs open, 15 websites doesn't matter where you're at, what you're doing. It clears and wipes everything immediately. And I don't even know how practically I would use this that often, but I really like watching it happen when I'm just sort of fed up with all my work. I want to watch my screen catch on fire. Sometimes you just want to watch the screen burn. Yeah, that is the truth. But more over to the functionality, it seems like a capable browser at least so far. Again, it's early days, seems fine on mobile as well. We'll see how it handles things like add-ons and plug-ins and all the things we expect from most of our browsers. They may have weighed a lot of that, I don't know, but some of that is unclear at this point. The bottom line is that security is a selling point for me, but also there's sort of a notion anyway that DuckDuckGo's got a purity about them, like we're not gonna fill you full of trackers, we're not gonna give you stuff you didn't ask for. And so I have to admit, when I first saw this news, I kind of tilted my head a little bit and said, well, this kind of goes against what you've been saying. And I understand they had legal obligations, not to maybe mention this one thing. And it does affect me that much, probably not at all, but I think it's bad for them because their message is the opposite of this. So the fact that he got on it and talked about it, CEO got right behind it and said, look, this is what we're doing and got very transparent about it, I think is great. Maybe it'd have been better if they could have done it before, but then the agreement didn't really allow for that. So I've locked some mixed feelings about how that part of the business works, but as a service and as a browser at least so far, I really like it. Yeah, the whole, hey, this was a confidential agreement. We just couldn't tell you, that doesn't, that's not something that's gonna go over well with a company that's protecting user privacy and being transparent by doing that, or at least claiming to be. If the company had said, whoa, that is so weird, thank you security researcher, we'll fix this immediately, that would be different, but that's not what happened. Well, and it can't happen. And so the question becomes, why did you sign that agreement? Like we get it, you have an agreement that prevented you from telling us that you were doing this exception, but why? And I have been around enough of these things to understand that when DuckDuckGo signed that agreement, it was for search and they probably weren't even contemplating the idea of making a browser. And when lawyers get in a room, lawyers don't say like, well, what's gonna be best for our future messaging? Lawyers say, how can we make sure we force the other side to agree to as limited amount of terms as possible? And so the Microsoft people probably pushed that and the DuckDuckGo lawyers said, well, I don't think that really impacts our product, right? So okay, we'll agree to that. And this is the position that you're in where they have to admit this thing. I don't love it, but also I keep in mind that the tracking that they're allowing for Microsoft is a kind of tracking that most browsers don't even allow you to block. Most browsers don't even give you the option to block that. So the fact that DuckDuckGo is blocking everything but Microsoft still makes it a better browser than most of the browsers out there because it can do that kind of blocking. And also don't forget that DuckDuckGo continues to block the third party cookies and the fingerprint even after that ad called script runs. So it's doing a job of blocking a lot of even that Microsoft tracking. So I get it, I don't love it. I do like that they are scrambling to be like, okay, now that we're legally allowed to talk about it, let's explain it transparently. I think they're doing a good job of that. And if you out there are like, I don't care, sure that sounds rational, Mr. Moderate Merit, but I'm mad and I wanna switch. Hey, you got brave. The brave browser exists, go use it. It's a great browser. Agreed. Well, here's something that I don't know if we'll all agree on, but I'll just tell you what happened in the last, I don't know, 14 hours or so. So this is a story that came across my wires last night. Actor Seth Green, you may know him, then in a lot of stuff. He also owns a lot of NFTs. Many people in show business are pretty bullish on NFTs. Among those was Board Ape Yacht Club number 8398. If you're not familiar with Board Ape Yacht Club, it's one of the more successful, if not the most successful NFT projects, these NFTs, single NFTs are going for many thousands of dollars. May 21st, Seth showed off a trailer for a new show that he was producing that features NFTs, including Board Ape 8398, interacting with humans at the White Horse Tavern in New York. If you're not familiar with it, it's in the West Village, it's kind of a cool divey bar. However, earlier in May, Green fell for a fishing scheme and he lost control of four of his NFTs, including Board Ape 8398. Yeah, you knew where I was going with that. Yeah, that sucks. And before you cast stones at Seth Green, be sure that you will never fall for a fishing scam yourself, because it's possible to happen to any of us. Anyway, this is interesting because not all NFTs grant copyrights. I hold an NFT from Len Peralta that does not give me the copyright to Len's art. It just gives me that NFT. But since NFTs are simply contracts, they're not actually the art itself, they can give you copyright if they want to and the Board Ape NFTs do give you copyright, a limited version, but it gives you copyright. It allows Seth Green to make the show without having to get anybody else's permission because he owns that NFT or at least he used to. The copyright is granted to the owner and Green is no longer the owner. So now he doesn't have that copyright. The NFT grants the copyright to the holder. It is possible that the copyright might not be enforceable since the NFT was stolen in fraud, but that's something that would have to be worked out in the courts. Yeah, and if anyone's like, what does this have to do with the TV show? If the copyright was deemed not belonging to Seth Green because he made a boo boo and fell for a fishing scheme, he would potentially not be able to do the show or have to change some characters. Or someone could say you have to pay me to use Board Ape A398 because I own it. Exactly. So here's where it gets more interesting. The current owner of Board Ape A398 isn't actually the person who stole it. It's a person who bought it from the person who stole it. Buzzfeed tracked down that person, a surgeon in Australia. That person says, I was not aware of the nature of the Board Ape. I bought it and said specifically to Buzzfeed, quote, I have no plans for the Ape. As you can see, I've been collecting for a while. I bought it because I liked it. It wasn't a cheap buy either. And it was not marked as suspicious. So I bought it in good faith. I'm happy to be in contact with Seth to chat about this. That person also added, this was a little bit later, I just woke up and I've seen this craziness. Please put him in contact with me. Which is funny because- Yeah, I don't think it was later. I think he just said like, hey, I just woke up. So the fact that I've just grappled with- Well, yeah, which is funny because Seth had been sort of reaching out into the ether saying, listen, let's solve this. Let's not, we don't have to go to some crazy litigation. I just, I got this, you don't want this. You shouldn't have this. It really should have been mine. And it sounds like they probably will come to a resolution. But it's just, it's a good story to remind us all that a lot of the stuff is kind of flimsy when it comes to who owns what. Well, it's not flimsy if you protect it. It's actually very rock solid. But like physical objects, if you don't protect them, they could be stolen. That's what happened to Seth Green. It's- Exactly. And so the fact that it's not flimsy makes it harder for Seth Green because they always like, well, crap. My stolen goods are in the possession of an Australian surgeon. And I don't think it'll shock anyone that this happened on OpenSea, which is not known for protecting from anti-fraud very well. No, but they're also the biggest player in the market. So you kind of have to, that's where you get your stuff. I can't help this, so forgive me. My brain says to say this, I don't know why on earth, somebody is smart as Seth Green. He's got a lot of projects going, produces a ton of stuff, directs things, does voice acting, regular acting. The guy's a bona fide star. I don't know why anyone around him or him himself think it's a good idea to put an NFT in a show or have a show that has any kind of focus around NFTs, given the current climate and attitude by the general public toward NFTs. That part is hard for me to get past, Tom. I don't know why, it's just in my way. Well, I mean, I would have to assume, and I know as much about the project as anybody else because I don't know much, but I would assume that this is just, I don't know, it'd be like saying, let's make a Transformers TV show based on toys. The toys themselves are just sort of there. You can sort of play around with them and do whatever. But then it turns into like this characterization. I would assume that this particular ape would have a backstory and be living in New York, hanging out with folks. Sure. Or something like that. No, he is. Like in the trailer, you see Boy Ape, A3, A9, A8. Like he's a bartender at the White-Hair Stevered in the trailer there. And if they're being very satirical and literally making fun of the fact that an NFT is running a bar, I'm like, he's the bartender, then maybe you've got me. But I think that this inherent idea that NFTs are awesome and let's make TV shows about them. It's a TV show about NFTs living in the world with humans. So the bar, if you watch the trailer, the bar is full of people and other NFTs. They're all hanging out together. That makes it worse. Living in my lives. I don't. I mean, look, I don't want to ever taste as a variable thing. Nobody has the same taste as me and I don't have the same taste as them. But this sounds like something I would be supremely annoyed with. All of that aside, all of your security stuff, all the stuff about protecting these things as if they were physical objects, all of that stuff is just as relevant as ever and is absolutely true. As a separate issue, though, I don't think this TV show would be for me. I'm not interested in this at all. Listen, are NFTs popular amongst a certain subsection? Are they buzzworthy? Is it a niche? Is it something that has a lot of fans? Yeah, it is. They'd make it a TV show. It's probably not a bad bet. Sure. I don't know. If you want to, well, whatever, they made a great movie out of Angry Birds and that surprised me. So I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying the likelihood of me either binging or sitting down to catch this every week pretty lower than the NFT value is right now. It's gone way down. Well, as we all know, sometimes being the first one to do something is worth it just for that alone. Whether or not people like it or not, they go, you know, you were that person who was the first. He's still got robot chicken and I really like that, so that's fine. There's a company called Uboe being one of the first to do something. This is one of those things we do for you on DTNS. We try to let you know about something that you haven't heard of before, but you might hear about it if you talk to someone younger than you. Uboe is a French video-oriented social network that is popular with folks between the ages of 13 and 25. The central premise is to create live streams with friends. Up to 10 friends can get together and create a live stream and just hang out. Anybody can view it and you select the live streams to watch, not because you're following somebody. In fact, you can't follow people on Uboe. You look for topics you liked or you look for people from nations that you follow. Like if you're French, you might want to follow French people. You can also swipe through suggestions of streamers kind of Tinder-like. There are no likes or follows, so no creator-focused community. It's just kind of hanging out and it has 60 million users worldwide and makes its money on in-app transactions and premium feature subscriptions. It does not sell ads, it does not monetize data, and it made 25 million euros off premium subscriptions last year. All right, what's interesting today about Uboe, why UBOe, is it has two separate communities. One for ages 13 to 17, one for everybody else. The two don't mix. You are not gonna go hang out with the 13 to 17-year-olds if you're in the other community in vice versa. Uboe has partnered with a company called YOTI, Y-O-T-I, to verify age by asking for you to submit an ID. But the problem is, a lot of those 13 to 17-year-olds don't have IDs, so starting now, Uboe will use live images to try to help verify age. The process makes sure that the image is live. You have to be moving around a little. You can't just hold up a photo. And then it uses an algorithm to estimate the age the person claims to be. If the estimate and the age they submitted in their profile don't match, then they're asked to submit an ID. The age estimation works within 1.3 years for people 13 to 19, so it's pretty accurate. It works within two to three years for people 20 to 30, and it gets worse the older you get. So to start, it will only be used to verify the ages of people who are 13 or 14, and then they're gonna roll it out slowly to 15, 16, and 17, but they're just gonna use it for the young users. I love the idea of this. It's pretty genius just because sometimes I try to think of the worst case scenarios with an algorithm like this not working. If I were to, I don't know, I'm in my 40s, and if I were to be like, I wanna hang out with the little kids. Hey, young niece of mine, sit in front of here, do a live photo, get me into the network, and then I kinda do my thing from there. Is that a concern? I mean, sure, you can always work around to anything. There are also human moderators on this that probably catch that stuff and get rid of it. And they've been around since 2015, so they've gone through a lot of, you know, trying to stop people from streaming nude and all of the things you expect these days with a social network. So they're pretty good at using algorithms to detect things that are unusual, referring them to human moderators and chomping down on them. The other thing is I'm not sure what good you might get out of it because you have to be friends with people. You can't follow creators, you can't send people to your site. This is really about finding people with shared interest in hanging out with them. Yeah, that I like. I also think that my brain usually says, well, if you give somebody a limit and say, hey, if you're not 13 or over, you can't come in here. People will just fake their age or they'll fake the thing and on Steam, they'll just change their birthday, whatever, they'll get around things. But in this case, at least they're making the case for this, that you want to be in your range. Because that's where your friends are and the relationships are and the fun is, that's where you want to actually be. You don't want to be in the 20 or overs or whatever because they're not interesting to you. This is interesting to you. So it's different in that way. They're not putting a barrier up and saying, all the cool stuff's past this barrier, but stay in here because you're under 13. No, they're saying, no, you guys have all the cool stuff and you're here, you are, stay there. And we'll keep all the creepy adults over here. They're not getting any better stuff than you are. They're not creepy, just the adults. It's just demographics really, right? It's like, sure, I could watch like, I don't know, Sesame Street or something. I actually still like Sesame Street. So that's a bad example. I'm trying to think of something that's for really young kids. I can watch it, it's fine, but it's not really my demo. But it is for a certain age group and those people would have more in common. Yeah, and believe me, this situation where you're like, get your niece to sign up for it and then you use it, like they've had that risk the whole time they've been operating. So they've figured out how to deal with that. Also verification data is not kept. They don't have a database of this stuff. The IDs and the live estimates, they happen at verification time and then your account gets verified or not and then it's done. They're not building up a database that they have to secure. So a couple of concerns to address there. Final note, I know a lot of people out there agree with me. I really hope we're about at the place where some new social network with new ideas and better ways of doing things explodes. I think we need to shake up. Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting to see one that usually those come from the younger demos, Facebook was in the younger demo when it got big, so was Twitter. Hey, if you have a thought about that, if you're like, actually I know the one. I know the new social network that's gonna take them all down, let us know, feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We'd really like to know ahead of time. So please, email us. Yeah. Dyson kicked off a recruiting drive for robotics engineers by publishing a story on its own website titled, Dyson gives tantalizing glimpse of secret robot prototypes, which appear to carry out household chores as it hunts for the world's brightest robotics engineers. Kind of a fun job description. It appears, they wrote it. They know whether it does it or not. Yeah. It also published a video on its YouTube channel showing robots doing the dishes, vacuuming, tidying up, stuff that people would love robots to do in their homes. Most of the time, certainly me. Sure, all those things sound good. Dyson also presented at the International Conference on Robotics and Automation on Wednesday and it showed off what it calls its Perception Lab where it's developing robotic vision systems. They say they wanna hire about 700 engineers for this. Yeah, I love Dyson. I have a Dyson vacuum cleaner. I do think Dyson is extremely overhyped sometimes. And this feels like that, which is like, I know they're doing actual research. So are a lot of other companies with computer vision, but Dyson has that Steve Jobs way of making something sound like he's the only one who's doing it. I don't mean to say this is a bad thing, but it's like, yeah, their robots don't look any more capable than a lot of the other robots I've seen out there. You just slapped the name Dyson on it and put his fancy accent next to it and it sounds more promising. Sure, you also, if you think the iRobot or the Roomba or something aren't doing great vacuum jobs, I feel like they have a leg up here because they've got great vacuums, give us some good robotics, boom, the ultimate robotic vacuum and you're good. I mean, my Roomba, which is not the fanciest Roomba that you can get. In fact, it's one of the lower end models. I mean, my best friend absolutely has changed my life. If Dyson is really gonna hire 700 engineers to work on robotics for the household, I want a robot to do my dishes because I don't have a dishwasher. Like as soon as possible, thank you in advance. I feel like Dyson really is the new Apple where you're like, roll your eyes at the way they approach talking about their stuff, but also they make really good stuff. Like the Dyson fan is also really good. Anyway, meanwhile, actual robots can't do much cleaning, but they can keep you company. So the New York state office for aging is distributing 800 robots from Intuition Robotics, a company in Israel. The robot is called LEQ, E-L-L-I-Q. It can learn from interactions and remember aspects of a user's life. If people laugh at the jokes more, they tell more jokes, stuff like that. They're meant to help reduce stress, increase health and wellness. So it's essentially a proactive smart speaker and that's what it looks like. It's got a lamp-like face that can swivel around towards the speaker and a tablet for touchscreen interactions attached to it. Nice. This is not the first robot. I believe we've talked about it on the show before. That is specifically focused for a senior citizen who might need some reminders, might feel a little lonely or might just need a little company, some information about this or that. And I think of my Amazon assistant is very helpful for me, but it's not tailored towards me very much. I mean, there's a few things I can do. They're customizable, but if something is geared a little bit more towards somebody who has a particular set of needs, I think this is really cool. Yeah. I want it to wheel around and bring me stuff. Yeah, this one doesn't move. That's what I want. If they don't give me that, by the time I'm old enough to need one of these, then no sale, forget it. I want to be 85 laying there going, bring me my pills and have it roll over there with my pills. Yeah. My Amazon's got stuff that'll do that. There's all kinds of Japanese robotics that do stuff like that, too. Yeah, I just want someone to do my dishes. So, yeah. Humanoid robot. Like, Dyson, if you can make that dish washing thing work. Yeah, talk to me. Yeah, yeah, I'll be loyal for life. And I think it's worth pointing out that we shouldn't assume that robots will solve loneliness. Like, this is just an element of helping ease loneliness. You still need human interaction. This isn't a replacement for that. Yeah. Well, thank you to our future robot overlords. Can't wait to see what you all do next. Also, thanks to Scott Johnson, who is not a robot, but is still a pretty cool dude. I might be a future overlord, though. We'll see. Working on it. Yeah, I know. You do kind of have that evil streak every now and then. But when you're not being evil, what are you doing? Well, we are making a whole lot of content over here at the Frog Pants Network, including a show that now has been running since October of 2009. And it's called Film Sack. It's a show that I'm very proud of. It's been going on forever with me and my three other co-hosts. And it just never isn't fun to do. So I just thought, hey, I'd poke around and tell people about it if you like talking about old movies and feel like sitting around a table and talking to your friends about why you love the Terminator or why Predator is better than, I don't know, almost anything else ever made. And then that would be the show to listen to. It's over at frogpants.com slash filmsack or filmsack.com. And we just launched a Patreon as well. So check out that and let us know what you think. We'd love to have you. You can also find me on Twitter these days. I'm over at Scott Johnson. But is it better than Mad Max Fury Road? Nothing is better than Mad Max Fury Road. I just wanted to check. No, thank you for checking. It's very important that you did check. And I'm glad that you did. Good. So thank you. Context is important. We also have a brand new boss, too. Thank that boss. His name is Fort Bacon. Fort Bacon just started backing us on Patreon. Thanks, F Bake. If I can play that. I love F Bake. It's a part of the fam now. Yeah, welcome F Bake. Yeah, there's a longer version of the show. It's called Good Day Internet. Many of you listen, but if you'd like to join us, it's available at patreon.com slash DTNS. And it rolls right in after we are done here. Reminder, we're live Monday through Friday on DTNS at 4 p.m. Eastern, 200 UTC. You can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. We're back doing it all again tomorrow with Justin and Robert Young joining us. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Bob hopes you have enjoyed this brover. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.