 Welcome to the ITU Plenipotentiary Conference 2022 here in Bucharest, Romania. We have got the great pleasure of being joined in the studio today by Mohamed Ibrahim, who is a former minister for the Post and Telecommunications of Somalia. Mohamed, welcome to the studio. Thank you. Thank you very much. You are no stranger to ITU studios. We've chatted quite a lot in the past. This is, I believe, your fourth Plenipotentiary Conference. That's correct. She was my age. I know the feeling. How is it different from other Plenipotentiary Converses? And why does this matter? This time, I think there's a difference in the structure of the leadership, which is good news. We have a female general secretary after 150 plus years. So that is one of the changes. But there are other important issues going on. And for the first time, we are really more focused on digital transformation, disruption of technology, developing countries, the digital divide. All those things are becoming now more focused, whereby before there was discussions, but now it seems a lot of people understand what's on the stake. So that is really what makes this time different. Now you've swapped your ministerial role for academia now, I understand. And you're based in Australia. So obviously you're getting a whole different perspective there, I'm sure. Now I wanted to ask you, how will digital transformation and its role in bridging the digital divide transform the planet? Well, thank you. You're right. Actually, I'm no longer in politics now. I moved into academia. And this is an area I actually do a lot of research on this. And we hear a lot of the time through the UN agencies and all these big meetings, global meetings about digital transformation, financial inclusion, bridging the digital divide and all these things. But for a long time, it was really a hype. In other words, it was academic stuff. Just talking about it, writing about it and so on. But now it seems people are realizing, really, it's no longer just a talk unless we can really show what digital transformation means to the people who are on the south of the digital divide. And that's what makes things more interesting now. It seems people who are talking about this over the last decade or more now are saying, well, how do we quantify? How do we actually say digital transformation and what actually lead into less divide between the south and north in terms of economics? So it's interesting times. I think this time maybe we hopefully will get it right. And what about the structure of ITU? Do you think it's time to restructure ITU to ensure that it can cope with the speed of global technological developments? It's a very sensitive issue and it's an interesting question. A lot of discussion about this, especially among the African community and the African telecommunication people and also the Arab community and so on. I think to be fair, the current leadership, the structure of the current leadership worked for a while. Maybe the time has come, we should revisit this and already certain things are happening. Why, why is this important? Because the speed of the technology, the way technology develops, is much, much faster than what the ITU leadership can cope with. I'm not trying to be negative or critical about this. Hence the need for different way of running the show, different way of leading the ITU. What do I mean by this? For example, if you have someone in the leadership, the secretary general or the directors, and they are in the system for eight years as debuties, and then they become the director or the secretary general for another eight years, that's 16 years. That's almost in terms of IT timeframe, it's a lifetime. That's how much people spend in the technology. So I guess in a friendly way, I'm just sending a message saying, look, perhaps that can be revisited, can be shortened and get more young generation. I consider myself now, for example, a senior person, I wouldn't be interested in doing bits and bytes. But if people who are even older than me are still trying to cope with this, maybe it's time to really change a little bit. Yeah, I mean, I'll answer that question because I know you're that opinion, but there is some fresh blood coming into ITU. I mean, I think our deputy secretary general is probably the youngest deputy secretary general that the ITU has seen. I think also, you know, Dori Bogdan-Marcin, although she's been with the organisation for quite some time, has got, is still pretty youthful. So, but is it just youth or is it something else, perspectives that you think need to be looked at? Yeah, the thing is, we know about this field, the ICT and the technology and the digital world. It's a very fast-moving area. So I'm not only talking about the directors or people who are hands-on, but it's even above that, the directors, the board, the governors, that's where you really need to inject new blood. That's where you really need people straight from universities, all those very sharp PhD holders to come in and say, look, this is what's happening. I have the same discussion with, for example, finance ministers or other ministers in Africa. And you want to explain cryptocurrencies to someone who did their PhD in the 50s or 60s. It won't work, you know, whereas you really need someone who is up to date because things are moving, they're moving very fast. So that's really what I mean. It's not, there's nothing wrong with the old leadership as well. There's a lot of wisdom and a lot of stuff, but it's just that sometimes we need to also time it and say, look, things are really moving too fast for the current leadership. That's what I was trying to say. Right, because the Institute of Rural Knowledge, of course, is extremely important, but I don't know whether you know this, but here, actually, at the ITU Planetary Potentially Conference, we also have Generation Connect. We've got young people here for the first time that are really injecting this new blood. We've got major sort of young influences as well and coveting and looking at the whole at the whole Planetary Potentially Conference. So hopefully that will spread itself, spread the message across and influence also the conversations that are happening here, do you think? Yeah, no, no, we had this conversation in different platforms before. It's the way, the queue, how it does it actually work. I'll just give you one quick example. If we want to talk about, let's be called 5G or some other technology. The ITU is standard. We're still working through it. You have the study groups, you have all these people trying to set the standard. In the meantime, the telecourse out there in the US or Europe, they're already doing it. So they're saying, look, you guys worry about your standards, but we really won't wait for you, we're moving on. The same thing with the financial side where you have the cryptos and what have you. It's already happening. The governments are still trying to legislate and this is really where my area of interest is. How do you shorten that time? Because if you want to lead, you have to be in the front. You cannot leave from the back, that won't work. So I guess that's what I'm trying to explain. Well, let's hope that ITU can stay ahead of the curve and fulfill its needs and expectations. But Mohamed, thank you so much for being with us in the studio again. I'm not sure whether we'll catch up again that soon, but I'm not sure whether you'll be at another plenty of potential comments, but if you are, you're more than welcome to come and join us here and share your insights. But thank you very much for joining us today. You're welcome. Well, we're writing a lot of things now, so being on camera, probably people can also read while we're writing, but I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thanks very much indeed.