 Manufacturers can help support that a lot just by donating and in return, they're getting their brand name out. You know, for this, who, if these, if these younger students become plumbers, they're probably remember their brand. So it kind of works both ways. Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales and outperform your competition. All right, everybody. Welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best sales person. I am Zach Williams, alongside my co-host, Beth Popniklaw. And today we have an excellent show lined up for you. You know, one thing we talk about here on Smarter Building Materials Marketing is what are smart things that manufacturers are doing when it comes to marketing and sales. And we hear their insights about what their customers say, but we're really excited about today's show because we have a manufacturer and an actual customer, aka a contractor, both on the show with us today to hear firsthand what are some of the strategies and insights that a manufacturer is doing. And then what does the actual contractor pro think about those initiatives and how is it helping their business? We are really excited to welcome Spencer Brown. He's the director of sales for Fister Wholesale. Alongside Kevin Johnson, he's the president of CHS Plumbing. They are here to talk to us about the great work that Fister has been doing to champion the trades and bringing the next generation into the trades. So thank you both so much for joining us. Thanks for inviting us. Before we dive in, we've got nothing but questions for you both. Spencer, let's start with you. And then Kevin, we can go to you. Just tell us a little bit about your background and who you are. Introduce yourselves to our listeners. Yeah, so my name is Spencer Brown. I've been with Fister for a little over 23 years. Right out of University of Alabama is where I started and currently the director of sales for Fister. I manage a team of about 38 sales reps and we focus on new construction, single family, multi-family. We do a renovation. We have a showroom vertical as well. And you know, Fister's been around for a little over 100 years and I've been on with 23. So it's been pretty exciting, Rob. Kevin, how about you? Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself as well? Sure. Kevin Johnson, I'm the owner and president of CHS Plumbing. We are a commercial plumbing contractor based in Arizona, with an office also in Denver, Colorado. We are primarily the plumbing contractor for high rise apartment buildings, multi-family construction, senior care and student housing. We have about 300 employees in our company and we work in those two markets, primarily doing the commercial pump. So it's really exciting having you both here. I know Fister has been doing really cool things from a marketing perspective for a long time, but Spencer, as we were talking, just as we are getting prepped for the show that labor shortage is a topic where we're starting to refer to it as a topic now and forever. Hopefully not forever, but it can be like that, right? Like it's kind of always been a topic and Fister is doing something really creative and partnering with long term plumbers like Kevin to help bring the next generation in. So can you tell us a little bit about what Fister is doing and how you got started? Yeah, so it started with COVID, ironically. As so many things did. COVID was really bad. It really changed the way people fought and do business. Even today with this interview, we probably wouldn't have done it like this two years ago, but it's changed things, how we how we do things. And, you know, when we hit that first big lockdown in, I guess, in March of two years ago, it was the first time that I had not traveled in 20 something years. And when I say not travel, and I went from almost every other day to I felt like I was retired. And I think a lot of us can probably understand what I'm talking about. And we were sitting at home and, you know, out of out of seeing a little bit, we had to get used to it the new way. And we had no idea how long it was going to be. But it gave me a lot of time to evaluate the Fister brand in what we can do differently once we get out of this pandemic. All right, of course, still kind of here, but we're getting, I think, we're making, making headway. But how can we overcome some of the negative perceptions we had within the plumbing community? You know, as as you guys know, we we manufacture and sell faucets and been doing it for well over a hundred years. And plumbers are the lifeblood of our success. You know, without them, we don't stay in business. But there were some decisions probably 30 or something years ago that that did, you know, where we sold our product. It did affect some of our perception. And we have amazing relationships with plumbers and stronger, in some cases, their friendships. Like I look at Kevin as a friend, as well as a customer. We travel together, we we talk a lot together. But for Fister to, you know, get a lot more of these customers and these plumbers that may have had negative perception. Kind of thought about what can we do to help change that perception? We needed to find a way to capture some trust and respect with these plumbers. So I started thinking about the number one issue the plumbers at the ones we do business with from Florida to California. They all said the same thing. They wish they had more help. They would do more work, have more projects if they had more labor. We had general contractors and builders calling us as a manufacturer, asking, can you help us find a plumber? I'm like, I can, but they're tapped out. They can't do any more, any more work. And so you kind of see this, this is a national issue that they builders can't even get projects off the ground, which is housing, which we desperately need right now because of this labor shortage. So I kind of looked at, you know, how can we help that situation as well as help our brand? We had a little bit of a perception problem. And to be honest, plumbers have a perception problem when it comes to who a plumber is. And so I think that's one of the many obstacles of why this next generation is not getting into the trade was because of that. And I remember talking to all these plumbers and seeing what they do, they're very successful. They love their job. And I always told them, you got to tell your story because people don't know how cool this is. So that's where the name American Plumber Stories came about, was that we were going to create a show that plumbers today can tell their story, showcase some of their highlights of what they do and like and show that this is a great profession to be in. And so that's where it's kind of evolved. And it went from, you know, just something to promote the plumbing trade to now it's become a movement that we're just extremely excited about sharing from Fister. Yeah, I'm checking out your YouTube channel right now. And I mean, some of your videos have what I'm looking at one, George the plumber, 37,000 views. And then Kevin, the one with you has 45,000 views. Is that right? Yeah, I saw that a few weeks ago. It must be the good luck, I guess, 100 percent, right? So I think, you know, it's really cool to hear that you're, you know, trying to find ways to get new people into the trade. This is something we hear over and over and over again. And manufacturers are trying different things, but the fact that you're spearheading this and working alongside of plumbers, I think, is what's really unique. Talk me through the thinking behind what the content was involved in the content, how you're highlighting plumbers and then how are you actually bringing awareness and tracking that? So it's really like talk me through the entire strategy here. If you don't mind, Spencer. Yeah, originally, you know, our theme that we use on the show is called Inspire, Educate and Entertain. But we felt like we had to do entertaining at first to keep, you know, the attraction of the show. So we looked at it, what's focused on plumbers who have unique hobbies or something that's different that plumbing allows them to do, whether it's a race car driver or playing basketball for a USA team across the country. We did some, you know, they're all have these unique hobbies we want to showcase. So that's the entertainment part of it. And what we found during this show, we're going through an interview on the plumbers was that the education hasn't been lacking in our country. And so now we have focused, we're still showcasing the plumbers on the entertainment side, but we're really pushing the education part of the focus to because we're seeing that schools today have changed a curriculum completely all the way from this and just in my state alone in Mississippi, it's great that 70 percent of high school students who graduate go to college, but only 30 percent actually graduate within six years. So it's we're not setting up, you know, we're not educating our youth for what society needs today. And that is the truth. And so we've kind of pushed the agenda a little bit more into the education side. So you'll see in season two, we've got schools that are involved. In fact, on the episode coming up, we're in a school system in Philadelphia. This is the first ever building trade program for middle school. And it's just amazing to see what these kids are doing. And this school is the benchmark where I think a lot of schools should be doing and probably will be doing once they see the show. So that's what we're focused on with American plumbers right now is just to for sure highlight this trade, but to, you know, kind of inspire the youth through the education as well. So here's what I'm curious about is you've got these really great videos and I encourage you if you're listening to this, go check them out. You can go check it on YouTube or we'll link to it in the show notes. But you're not only probably getting plumbers who are watching this because they're interested in it and they like the content, but your real audience is kids in high school and even college, right? Yes, that's where we're that's where the absolute absolutely. You know, the plumbers are already plumbers. Now, what that's true. And so we're using them to be to the ones to be looked up to is the role models for the younger generation. So absolutely. Our goal is to try to get into as many high schools as we can. Guidance counselors and parents. So many parents when they we've a lot of parents have been watching this and inspiring and maybe they think differently. You know, there is a perception that you have to go to college to get a good job. Well, that's not the way it is anymore. So we have to communicate that and change the system. And also what's really cool and Kevin can touch up on this is one of his employees in which he just hired. It's actually featured in this episode that Kevin was in. But he's coming out of high school making really good money and learning at the same time. There is no student debt. So if you take someone who average in a four year degree, they rack up $80,000 in debt to a job that may or may not like and not making as much money as guys are coming out of high school learning, making good money and not in debt at all. And with a skill that will always be needed for the rest of their life. And they could either do really well under Kevin or they could branch out and do something on their own. So it just adds so much more benefit for those who college is not one fee for them. And that's what this that's what these episodes call out. And, you know, hopefully that'll inspire those who are thinking differently. They can think that this route as well. And yes, plumbing is important to us, but it could be in all trades. It's not just plumbing. It's all trades are, you know, kind of fit the script of what we're doing here. It's interesting, Spencer, that the angle you took for entertainment actually also really appeals to the younger generation. We, you know, have watched a couple of the episodes. They're really great. Like I know Zach already mentioned it, but I'd really recommend checking them out. But I what I like about it is the emphasis on like I do this job and I'm really proud of this job and I'm a crafts person at as a plumber. But also this job lets me have a really fun life. And we know just from a demographic standpoint, that's something that matters to the younger generation more than it matter to generations that precede them. So that's really cool how those two things work together. Kevin, I'd love to hear from you how you're finding the next generation of plumbers and maybe how the American plumber story factors in, but also other things that you're doing to help bring new generations into the into the plumbing trades. Well, the timing of Fister's concept and idea was right up the alley of where we were at. We were literally living the nightmare of a number of plumbers coming of age and retiring and very few people replacing them. So the concept and the perception that you mentioned of being a plumber was not attractive to a lot of the younger generation in any way. And so that became a challenge for us. We needed people. We needed plumbers. We needed people who wanted a career that is a very attractive career and one that that you can earn a great living at and have another life as well. And so we started thinking about that and through Fister's help, you know, the video made a big difference on YouTube. And then our own work, we started looking around and and trying to identify how could we attract this younger generation? And it was a difficult task because really if it's not behind a computer in a lot of ways, they're not interested. So we came across, for starters, a technic technological school that piggybacks with some of the high schools here locally in Phoenix. And what they're doing is those who are interested in it spend about half of their time in the tech school, learning, plumbing, electrical, welding, a number of different trades. And then they can kind of figure out what direction is interesting to them. And then they can go and do that over time. What we were able to do is kind of partner with this group. And some of those students as juniors in high school started realizing that they had a career coming to them ahead of time as soon as they completed high school. And so they learned a lot of the of those things that they needed to get started in the plumbing trade. And at the same time, then they spent half of their days working with our company. And so they were having this earn while you learn concept that was very attractive to a lot of that's really smart. So that became a real success for us over the last couple of years. We've been able to attract about 15 of those young, young people, men and women who are now becoming full time plumbers. And now they're well on their way after high school. I've already getting putting in their four year apprenticeship, which is the requirement in order to become a full fledged plumber. And so they they've already picked up basically two years of that requirement while going to high school, graduating from high school and then moving on. And so we got to think and how could we expand that a little bit over time? And what we did is we found another group or a niche of plumbers, if you will, or people interested in the trade who were going to college. Now, they were spending their time during the day as a plumber apprentice in order to pay their bills and make things work. But then they were have this concept of, well, I got to go to college if I'm really going to be successful. They still hadn't hadn't linked the two together that you can be a plumber and be successful. And so we helped them understand that by basically telling them, if you will maintain your apprenticeship in the in the plumbing industry, we will pay for your college with those things, those classes that are relative to becoming a plumber or any other related occupations that are related to plumbing. Such as in our company, there's CAD design. There's logistics, there's purchasing. There's not just a bunch of plumbers that you have this concept of, you know, the overweight guy with the crack showing his is your plumber. You know, they're regular guys and they're actually going to college. They're learning and earning their degree in an area they may want to do. A couple are doing CAD design. And so that's where they're going to be. But we require that in our sophisticated business, CAD design on every project we do. So there's a niche for them within our company as well as any other company. So we started doing that as well. Now, the deficiency between who's retiring and who's coming in is still great. And so the work that Fister's been doing has been a huge help to us in getting the word out to that. We have lots more to do. And some of the new schools that Spencer's going to preview in the next few weeks have that program going as well. We've got to get more of that idea and concept that that plumbing is cool in the high schools and even middle school so that they start getting used to those things that will help them to be successful. The other challenges is we all, at least, and I'm guilty of it. We convinced all of our young people that the only path to success is through college. And now we have a whole bunch of millions and millions of dollars of debt with people who have not been able to find an actual occupation with that degree, whatever that degree might have been. And so we have that challenge too. So we're trying to circumvent some of that by helping them find a path that they can be successful in, earn and learn as you go. I love that. One question I have for you both is, Miss Spencer, when you were coming with this idea, you know, how did you start to work with Kevin as well as your other partners to say, Hey, I've got this idea. We're going to start investing into it. How can we make sure that we're making you successful? Like, what does that look like? Can you just tell that story of how they started to play out in some of the responses you got? Yes. So when I started thinking about that one, you know, the entertainment, we got to make plumbing cool, like Kevin said. So a lot of the plumbers that I do business with or we do business with, I kind of knew their background really well. Like, I knew Kevin was, you know, on the senior American basketball, USA basketball team, and I always thought that was cool. Even before the show, it was really cool. And so I kind of had a list of plumbers. And when I called them, at first, they're not ones that probably want to do this. In fact, if I remember Kevin, when I asked Kevin, I'm not sure if he really wanted to do it and how to kind of walk him through it. And then when I explained why we're doing it, he jumped on it. You know, it was about the trade and, you know, getting more involved. But, but yeah, it was just people that I knew and they're the same ones that I've always told, you've got to tell your story. When you have really, really cool lives right now, you have a great life. You come, you talk about you can't find anybody, but we're going to have to collectively tell people why you have a good life. And you're going to have to be the one to help push the agenda. And this is the way we're going to do it. We'll do it in the show. And once they kind of got onto it, understood it, they embraced it 100 percent. And now it's, like I said, it's become a movement now. How are you, how are you promoting the videos? Like, how are you getting in front of high schoolers, middle schoolers, college kids? Yeah. So it's it's it's definitely a learning curve for us. But we're actively, you know, we're reaching out to as many junior colleges weekend because they know that's going to be the really push just to get if they don't go to a four year degree to learn the plumbing in junior college. We're reaching out to the high school administrators. It's a little difficult because a lot of these administrators are, I wouldn't say the word bonus, but they're measured on ACT scores. They're they're measured on number of college. How many students go to college? And so it's difficult to change the structure to get measured on overnight. And then there's funding, you know, there's who's going to teach the high school kids, you know. And so we've got to just change the way we're doing things. But we've we're reaching out to high schools more and more getting involved. You know, we're trying to we're looking at trying to set up ways to where we can have a way to wear a plumber, local plumber can give some of their time and just do maybe a one day a week class to the high school, just to get the interest, just to get the ball started. So we're looking at doing some things like that. And then just the marketing of it, you know, we're trying to make it fun, you know, so that it's not a boring video of, you know, this is the profession you need to be into. I mean, we're going to make it fun, focus on some of the younger plumbers as well, who are doing really good. The last episode we do season two is a company whose average age is 26 here in here in my hometown, Mississippi, and having them tell, you know, how they got involved. And these are guys who the owner went to college. He was going to law school, went on a mission trip and started doing plumbing on the mission trip, flew back home and told his parents, I'm not going to law school anymore. Well, the mother and you'll see in this video, she was kind of devastated because that wasn't the path that he thought her son would needed to do. And she even admits that she was wrong on that. She steered him in direction. Didn't realize that that's probably what he didn't want to do. And yeah, she spent a lot of money in college and in high school, the private school, but she now she's one of the biggest advocates for what we're doing. And so that's going to be so having him tell his story at that age is going to resonate, I think, really well with the younger crowd as younger youth as well. So a question I have is it's kind of two questions at once, but I guess I want to ask, like, what's next? How do you get more manufacturers or if I'm a manufacturer who I see this and I'm like, this is the answer. Let's tell interesting stories. Let's get in front of the younger generation and get them excited, not just make them feel like it's, you know, second best option, but a great option. What's next and how could manufacturers get involved or start something like this? Yeah, that's interesting. So as we've come out of this and started showcasing what we're doing, the amount of other manufacturers that have reached out to us has just been incredible. They've asked how they can be a part of because they obviously see it to their customer base or plumbers. They hear the same thing. And I think a lot of people have tried to do some things differently and try to be involved, but they're seeing what we're doing now. They really want to be involved in one of the brands that we did bring on in season two was Rigid, which is a big and incredible brand name in the plumbing community. They specialize in a lot of tools and for plumbers. And they're helping even their donating product to a lot of the, you know, the high schools. So there's some things like that and donations or, you know, I mean, we're not asking for sponsor. We're not getting on sponsor, but they they have become a a sponsor in a way that they're helping us provide, you know, getting the word out even more for us because of their base. So, yeah, they're I think that's important. Definitely is the because a lot of these a lot of these schools, you know, the money is not there. They can't just go buy a bunch of plumbing equipment. They start teaching that there's no budget for that. And so it's it's going to help, you know, manufacturers can help support that a lot just by donating and in return, they're getting their brand name out. You know, for this, if these if these younger students become plumbers, they're probably remember their brand. So it kind of works both ways. Yeah, that's exactly right. But yeah, that's that's so we're starting to see that we're seeing the support with manufacturers just there. Just it's a big task. It's 30 years of you have to go to college. And then change and then changing that narrative. Not that it's bad to college, but that there's other options that's that it's really smart to get into the trade that it's, you know, there's this. I've been I don't know if you all are on Twitter at all, but there's a lot of there's a big movement to get into what we call the sweaty startup. You know, the trade, the trades that are that are, you know, you got to use your hands. You got to get dirty, you know. And so I think it's really smart. Um, Kevin and Spencer, this has been really interesting. If our listeners want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Well, with with our show, American Plumber Stories, obviously, our websites, americanplumberstories.com. We have an Instagram page, a Facebook page, American Plumber Stories and our YouTube channel. American Plumber Stories, subscribe to that and you'll get updates and one of the next episodes are coming. And we can just contact us through that one of those channels. That's great. Kevin, what about yourself? The CHS Plumbing is our website and and they can contact us through FISTER, which is the big partner there, of course. And then, you know, the show, I think, has generated a lot of interest that we're already still feeling. And so our goal is still the same to try to partner with them. And I think we'll all find some success with it. That's great. Yeah. Thank you both for your transparency and coming on and sharing. I think, you know, every manufacturer we talk to and probably every single listener can relate to this in some way in that figuring out how in the world do I solve labor shortage and what you're saying is it's partnership. It's being creative. It's getting in front of the next generation, as well as having a long term vision to say this is what is necessary in order to be successful not only now, but in the future. So thank you both again very much. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. For our listeners, if you enjoyed this content, make sure you go to venvio.com slash podcast to subscribe to get more. Until next time, I'm Zach Williams, alongside that, I'll make love. Thanks everybody.