 Thanks Christina and welcome everyone thanks for joining in. So I've titled my talk today a little bit differently than what it was on the, on the site when I did the abstract. After a while we, we, we got around to thinking the response to the report seems to be very much so that it's the skills aspect and having having that being good for your career and something that that hiring managers are looking for. And so I decided to tweak the title a little bit so I've called it building open source skills is good for your career, and this is the way, if you're a fan of the Mandalorian you'll understand that. So again I'm Chris Harris I'm an IBM fellow and CTO for open technology. Basically I have overall responsibility for all of the open source and open standards work that we do at IBM. And I have a team that's, you know, very much engaged in open source and I myself and frequently engaged in this project or that. Most recently I was deeply involved in creating that for me the hyper ledger organization and serve as a maintainer word member chair of the TSE and so forth. And, and this past year, we're very closely with some colleagues at Microsoft and GitHub and Google. And we created the open source security foundation open SSF. And so that's where I've been spending most of my time lately. And so, without further ado, this is not working. So, so let's start with, you know, somebody that I worked with way back in the day when I worked at some micro systems. I work with this guy here bill joy. You may know him. He's sort of the inventor of BSD. And he had a saying that no matter who you are, most of the smartest people work for somebody else, we call this joys law. And what he's really trying to say here is that, you know, even, you know, a company the size of a Google or an Amazon or Microsoft or an IBM doesn't have all the smart people. They're more smart people that work for the other companies than work for your own. And so when you think about how this impacts innovation. It really means that if you're, if your competitors are collaborating together out in the open, then you had a distinct disadvantage if you're not playing in that same party. And then Eric Raymond back in 1997 had a very present quote from from his paper, the cathedral on the bizarre, perhaps in the end, the open source cultural triumph simply because the close source world cannot win an evolutionary arms race with open source communities that can put orders of magnitude more skilled time into a problem. And this is essentially, this is this is the, the reason I think in many regards as to why open source is succeeding and is really starting into to sort of eat away at the proprietary software era. So why do you know why do people choose open source well you know there's a perception that there's a better there's more of a speed of innovation going on in the various open source communities. So if you're collaborating with even your fiercest competitors in building something like the container orchestration service and in Kubernetes. You're going to be innovating much more quickly than if any one of those companies were to try to do it all on their own. There's a potential cost savings for development so if you're incorporating open source into the applications or solutions that you're building. You're not having to spend time developing that component that you incorporate that is based on open source. You're getting that from the community. And if you're doing it right then you're also helping to contribute back either development documentation bug fixes and testing and so forth. You know, you know, I think, you know, from my perspective I always think about this in the, in the, in the, in the sense that, you know, if it's already been invented, I'm not really interested in doing it again right. I'm more interested in solving problems that haven't been solved. So companies that look for interoperability and essentially you can look at open source as sort of the next wave of how we do sort of open standards right you think about the whole purpose of developing open standards is to deliver interoperability and freedom from vendor locking right so you know back in the day I worked with Microsoft on developing some of the XML web services standards. And the whole point there is to drive interoperability between the IBM world and the Microsoft world. And our customers are really, you know, 100% behind that. But now we're seeing, you know, everything's moving to the cloud and, and yet, there is no, you know, there's much more of a sense that people are selecting multiple different clouds for their deployments. And so as a result you're looking for interoperability and portability between different cloud platforms. So what are the benefits to developers well, and this is again this is taken from some some charts that I've presented in the past, but basically open source gives you improved skills. It gives you support, and you can sort of increase your, your technical eminence in those communities through participation in open source. So again it's an accelerant innovation you're not having to reinvent the wheel so to speak. It gives you access to experience technologies so you know one of the things that's really great about open source is that you can be rubbing elbows and working side by side and getting, you know, constructive feedback in code reviews, those experienced technologists on the planet. And they don't have to be working for the same companies you could be working for some small startup, and yet rubbing elbows and getting advice and coaching and mentoring and critical reviews from somebody who's working, and has been working at a company like a Google or, or a Microsoft or an IBM. We're finding that again open source communities are starting to become the sort of interactive hubs for developers it's where they can sort of get together and show off their skills their their subject matter knowledge and so forth. Whether it's in these areas conferences that are held as a result of you know organizing around these communities, or whether it's just in the community development process itself. It helps you build that technical elements amongst your peers and this is important to you know your future job prospects. Why does open source mattered IBM well, you know from our perspective again, it's improved products and offerings it's improved performance of our ability to deliver capability quickly. And it's, and it's a source for skilled resources from skilled developers and advocates and so forth. You know, again being able to deliver trusted scalable secure services is really important. And again, if you start as a family with a foundation of open source such as we have with Kubernetes for instance in our open shift offerings and our IBM cloud. It gives us a head start and then we can focus on not reinventing the same set of wheels that does container orchestration, but focusing on the user experience for instance and making that a little bit simpler for people. It gives us the ability to deliver innovative and highly scalable for front technologies can talk about coob. But it's the same thing for AI and machine learning capabilities. So those that are incorporated into for instance IBM's cloud patch for data are based on open source technologies, or just the open source technologies themselves in many cases. And again it helps our developers maintain and sort of grow in their skill set by contributing out into these open source communities so so we see this as a unique opportunity for IBM. You know, so like I said this I've been saying this now for, I can't remember how long but you know for quite some time when I talked to clients and when I talked to conferences and so forth. But last year, I think, you know, probably in the early fall time period. I came across a piece of clickbait that was basically saying, Oh my God, you know if you're a developer you need to know these 10 API is and it was Amazon this Amazon that Amazon the other thing. And I was really excited that because as a developer. That's not the thing that's necessarily from my perspective that's not necessarily the thing that I need to know if I'm going to get a job because not everybody uses Amazon. It's a very popular cloud platform, but not everybody uses Amazon, and certainly not everybody uses Amazon exclusively. And so it's really motivating developers I thought was no I think it's really the underlying open source that fuels a lot of these cloud platforms that really matters, and not necessarily the vendor specific API that adorn them. And so I got together with some colleagues and IBM's market development insights, and you know we pitched the idea of we should do a study to find out exactly what is it that's motivating developers right developers really think that they should know a proprietary API over the underlying open source APIs. What's important from from their perspective of you know from a career building perspective. What motivates hiring managers into hiring somebody is it their knowledge of the underlying proprietary API is or is it the knowledge of the underlying open source that's really important to to hiring managers and so we put the Riley to develop a survey that went out and we talked to its 33441 respondents there was actually a few more than that, but not all of the responses were complete so we only took all of the complete ones but basically just over 3400 respondents, there was sort of a variety of showing a second, you know sort of the mix of who, who we were talking to. And, you know we asked them a series of questions relating to the topic I just, I just broached. What do we find. The majority think that knowledge of and contribute contributions to open source are much more important to their careers than, and their professional opportunities then are, you know, focusing exclusively on proprietary APIs. So that's, that's sort of the most important thing, I think that, you know, we learned from from this study. I think there's a lot of the, the same things that we just talked about, you know, people are looking to open source software because it gives you certain guarantees, or certain mitigations against vendor lock in. There's lower costs involved because you can actually download your the software for free again doesn't, it's free isn't isn't as in beer there is how you see some support costs and so forth associated with it, operational costs. And also the ability to sort of build on and leverage the ideas and innovation from a large community, right. And so that's really, I think the, the attractiveness of, you know, why, why developers feel that it's important. In terms of the developers considered the skills related to the underlying open sources be more important than the proprietary platforms themselves. And so Linux and Kubernetes are much more beneficial than the proprietary API set the cloud providers offer. I mean, you know, in terms of which of the technologies from an open source perspective are most significant most important to developers and to the hiring managers in terms of experience looking, you know, looking for experience in their in their potential hires. Linux itself was number one. Containers obviously came in a close second databases were perceived as more important and then it sort of trickled down to, you know, various other specific technologies. And again, when we think about, you know, developing from a cloud native perspective and from a data and AI machine learning perspective, you know, these are the things that really are the underlying powerhouses for for that type of development. And basically about 50% of the developers consider that their knowledge and their experience with these technologies had resulted in higher pay. That's really sort of the gist of it. You know, as I mentioned, they want to understand the value open source to developers. When we when we went out there so that was the primary motivation behind the study. I mentioned we have a total of 3441 participants in the study itself. And again, we can identify themselves as software engineers or architects, and you know dev ops and so forth. And then, you know, the others were hiring managers and so forth we have a breadth of coverage from large enterprises from mid market companies and smaller ISVs and smaller companies. And again, the responses were pretty much consistent across all the different dimensions here. I will highlight a couple of important distinctions in terms of the responses when you sort of drill down into the details of the study itself, where we find that some hiring managers are actually more bullish on open source than the developers themselves. So, again, it's a strong signal for, you know, where things are heading. So again, you know we talked about this you know what, what are the benefits of open source over proprietary software and this is pretty stark. You know the differential differentiation here, you know minimizing vendor lock and you know basically 85% of the respondents felt that it was either losing. So, you know, whether it's strongly associated or somewhat associated versus disassociated. So, you know, again, you know, these are, that's a significant data point there. And then, you know, people basically felt that well obviously if you're dealing with vendor specific stuff, you're not necessarily minimizing your vendor lock in. So, you know, perception I think again, this is one of those, this is one of those areas where you know obviously it's it's open source it's free you can download it doesn't cost you a nickel. And you can just deploy it in your enterprise but then there's always the day to operational aspects of things how are you going to patch it how are you going to support it going forward. For free. So there is a certain support costs associated with it but certainly, I think many still perceive that even adding in the sort of the, the day to operational support and and support development cases that it's still lower cost and then then proprietary software offerings. And there's another catch to that I think increasingly people do sort of hit that threshold, where they realize what they really want is they want the open source for the benefits the other benefits that we see here. But they're looking for somebody to help them with the support and services of the technology itself. 76% think it makes me feel like I'm part of a community. And I think that's, even if you're just a user of the software not contributing back and participating actively out in the open source community. There's a certain affiliation with that broader community if you're if you're in the user community and sometimes you end up going to, well maybe not now with the coven, but you know in the past, you know people would show up at conferences that aren't necessarily contributing in the community but they're using the technology and they, they want to learn more they want to sort of elbows with the people that are building it. I think there is a strong sense of community associated with open source, there isn't really with proprietary software. It provides incentive to innovate again you know this is one of those things that I think, you know people underestimate is that, you know because open source, you know gives you the ability to fork it you can, you can you can actually take it and then you can build a derivative of that you can build on the shoulders of giants as I say, and come up with something new and important and improvements in some in some way. It makes my job more meaningful so 66%, almost two thirds say that it makes them feel more meaningful in terms of their job prevents silos again a slightly lesser percentage thinks that it prevents silos again the proprietary software in the red there is still trickling down in the single digits. More support available this is again this is the point that I was making above in that you know again. There is there's an increasing awareness of the fact that you can actually get fairly decent support from the community whether it's the documentation, whether it's you know seeking, you know filing an issue and getting a response and getting a bug fix and so forth. Many of the more vibrant and diverse and and sort of popular communities are very effective at delivering essential support. You know, not necessarily the same that you would expect from a vendor. And certainly the vendor software about 35% there think that it's more strongly associated with, you know, with vendors specific technologies. But again increasingly I think people are looking to vendors providing support for the open source right in the red hat sort of model of providing a subscription to an underlying source software package. More reliable more error, you know, less error prone and so forth I think again increasingly people are looking at open source is providing that you know the, you know the old saying of many eyes makes all bugs shallow it's not totally true it's you know that there are bugs in software. That's the nature of the game, but increasingly, you know, especially as communities focus on things like improving security and improving their, their testing and so forth. You know, generally, people are finding that open source tends to be much more reliable robust than even the preparatory offerings, and then easier to use and I think again this this comes from the perspective that because you can engage with the developer to get feedback into the development cycle. And so ease of use comes out, oftentimes in in dealing with that. Okay. Other key requirements technology flexibility. Right. And again this is where you think about from an open source perspective you actually have access to the software, you know, and so you can maybe configure it to suit your specific needs. You can implement it you can build on top of it. Right so it's much more flexible than proprietary software that you don't have the software, you know you don't have the code for, and you've got to sort of adapt to whatever API is that give you the developer satisfaction again, most developers prefer to work with open source then with proprietary software. Again, speed of development, the quality of the code we talked about that security is another important thing. Although again it's not something that's perfect. You know, but it is something that increasingly more and more people are starting to think very long and hard about securing the open source supply chains, if you will, especially in light of things like the several wins incident. functionality again people think that, you know, from a perspective of providing the functionality that they need, they get better response from open source software. Better performance and stability from open source, and then again we have the support, which works in the other direction. You know when you buy something from a vendor, you know they're signing up to give you full blown support and services around that capability that technology. And so they're on the hook, but I think that trend is moving in the right direction, where more and more, you know, people are looking for support for the open source and not for proprietary derivative of that. Open source skills are more beneficial to people's careers than skills related specific cloud platforms. Again, this is the sort of the crux of what it was that I was hoping to hear. And it, and it sort of paid out, you know, in spades here, 65% think that open source is much more beneficial to their careers than dealing and acquiring skills related to specific platforms, which was 35%. And so this, again, this makes me feel good, because I get to say I told you so, right. But it's, it's actually it's interesting from the perspective that if you're a developer, and you have to sort of make some choices in your life about you know so what am I going to pursue, which skills am I going to acquire to make my job prospects better and so forth. This gives you a pretty clear picture of where you should be focusing. Again, two thirds of developers would prefer to work with an open source based platform. You know, so, so that's, that's significant, right, that's significant. You know, you might get better performance out of somebody's, you know, platform that's, you know, based on closed source. But the reality of it is actually that increasingly more and more of the cloud platforms that are available are based on the underlying open source or something like Kubernetes certainly most of them are delivering Linux based operating system. The only experience with open source provides greater long term value from a career. Again, you know, 70% you know it's 67% think that it's important for long term career prospects. 29% this is this is an interesting one because again this is something that I certainly believe for quite some time, and it's really great to see the feedback coming from developers and from hiring managers that actually contributions to open source resulted in better professional opportunities. And I think that this is, this is another important trend because we're seeing more recently that it's not just the vendors that are contributing into these open source communities. It's the users that are bringing some of the best feedback. And you know whether they're working for a large financial institution or whether they're working in healthcare or supply chain what have you. They're starting to become more and more engaged directly in the upstream open source projects that they're basing their, their solutions on. Contributions open source provide more visibility and speaking opportunities and my error of expertise again 67%. This is important. Using open source helps attracts talent. Now again this is something that I think you know I certainly believe for some time. You know, and I'm not a hiring manager. But I do know very many of them and I do know that many of them do look when when they're looking to hire somebody. They check to see are you involved in an open source community you know what's your commit history look like. You know, and they may even ask around in those communities you know what do you think about so and so. So it is increasingly important. This is actually one of those. One of those points that I think actually turns out that the hiring managers actually felt more strongly about this than the developers themselves. Again, it's another sort of data point that you know I think is important to take away from this is that hiring managers, they're on board. And so as developers you need to think about so what are the hiring managers interested in so there's some really interesting data points in this report about that. So contributions to open source impress potential employers and often result in better job opportunities again 65% you know very, very important there. What else we have using open source increases respect and credibility my peers yes open source experience and skills are usually an important factor to determine who to hire. And again, this is another one of those data points that you know, hiring managers felt more strongly by about 5% generally across the board, then the developers themselves again another, another interesting sort of point here. So again, you know just sort of repeating this and this this breaks it down then into so what technologies are people you know our developers you know focused on from a career perspective. That's, you know, 80% right. And, you know, again, 68% felt that it's really, really important to have proficiency proficiency and be a subject matter expert around Linux. And then 57% felt that it helped them get higher pay by becoming an expert in Linux databases came in at number two was 70% containers close behind the 68% and again, you know, this is a newer set of technologies and so we're still growing our proficiency and set of subject matter experts around this. But again, very similar levels of, you know, yeah, this is definitely helped me and get higher pay and so forth container orchestration around Kubernetes here. Again, 52%. Again, slightly newer. But again, it's becoming more and more important. And then AI came in in fifth place here. Technologies like Istio and Knative and so forth were, you know, lesser to lesser degree again they're much newer, not quite as well known, generally. But still, you know, when I look back in the report and digging into the details, you know, the these levels here down to Kubernetes are still greater than the developers responded. Yeah, I need to know, you know, AWS or need to know Azure and so forth, which were less than 50%. 87% of hiring managers considered applicants knowledge of open source and their hiring decisions. That's amazing. And you think about it. And then, you know, the 2020 open source jobs report actually had sort of very similar data in it that reinforcing that 93% of hiring managers said that they're finding it difficult to find the talent with the open source skills that they're looking for, which is up 5% from 2018. And the hiring managers report that knowledge of open source is the most significant impact with 70% more likely to hire a pro open source skills up from 66% in 2018. So again, this is this is clearly sort of, you know, reinforcing and ratifying the same findings. Okay. And again, hiring managers considering OSS important from in terms of hiring decisions. Again, sort of the same sort of set of numbers but again, in both cases, you know, whether it's attracting talent or whether it's, you know, the skills that they're looking for when they're hiring hiring managers, by about 5% in both cases felt more money than the developers themselves. So developers take note. What it so let's open source a good ad or excelling at again, 88% felt that it was leveraging ideas and innovation from a larger community so again, you know, it sort of reinforces that notion that open source is the fuel for much of the innovation that goes on these days. Minimizing vendor lock in we talked about that enabling choice of deployment platforms again as I mentioned, and it's actually also reinforced in another report that just came out yesterday and I didn't have time to put the link in and so forth but the the red hat enterprise open source study their third year in a row now came out and it's basically reinforcing that about two thirds of respondents are saying that they're using multiple clouds. So being able to sort of have the ability to do either portability or certainly portability of skills across a number of different cloud platforms is critically important to many enterprises. It's incredible with my enterprise it environment. Again, we're finding is and this and this is another one of those areas where the hiring managers actually felt more strongly. You know, when when we looked at in the report, you know, who's using open source in your enterprise, hiring managers have actually had a stronger opinion about how much they were using it. You know, significantly more than the general population of the study. And so it's important to their to their hiring decisions because that's basically what's in their enterprise, shortening time to value again 72% and then time to problem resolution and the support thing. It's something that's being worked. And again, I think increasingly you're finding that some vendors are providing support or subscription support for open source itself without sort of any kind of proprietary grapple. So, you know, sort of coming to a conclusion here so enterprise, you know, I should say technology consumers do more than just consume open source if they're going to be effective participants in this in this community. IBM has got a long and I think very positive history in open source. I like to say that we've been doing open source since before it was cool. If your result is me. You know I can say that but basically we were doing open source, even before red hat came into existence. We had IBM engineers and research and in in some of the systems divisions that were working on Linux. It was the very, very early days of Linux were working on developing the Apache HTTP server, you know back in the day as well and and we helped to found the Apache software foundation the Linux foundation the eclipse foundation, you know and then you had a fast forward open stack so I was there with you know the AT&T's and and Intel's and others that you know sort of went all in on open stack, you know, what is it now it's about eight, nine years ago, it seems like yesterday. Creating the open stack foundation, I worked with the pivotal folk to help to stand up the Cloud Foundry Foundation. We were involved in creating the Cloud Native Computing Foundation. I helped to set up Hyperledger, you know, OpenJS Foundation, GraphQL, Algeria, you know, various of these communities. IBM has been a significant contributor to and in many cases we actually contributed significant amounts of both resources as well as intellectual property to get these organizations up off the ground. Pardon me, so you know it's really important to sort of complete that virtuous cycle of contribution and not just consumption and in fact one of the points in the report actually does highlight the fact that that it's important that you're seen as contributing to open source as a vendor because it's the sense there is that if you're delivering capability based on that open source it's much better if you're actually contributing. And so our strategy, this is our strategy in a nutshell is that we have this hybrid cloud platform or Red Hat OpenShift and Enterprise Linux as a foundation for a number of capabilities that we deliver through the IBM Cloud Packs, various other SaaS software offerings on the IBM Cloud and or on the in software delivery. And you know with services built on top of all of that, it's all really when you when you sort of drill down into the heart of all of this it's really all about open source. And that's accelerating even further, which makes me very happy. And again we feel that this actually creates a better value for clients right when it's open, you know, you're harnessing the innovation in the open source communities. And we differentiate on top of that but again the underlying API is or something like OpenShift are Kubernetes and you can use the raw Kubernetes API right out of the box. So, you know, again this is, you know, sort of fulfilling the dream that I had when we went to market, you know, that sort of reinforces my sense of where the world was makes me feel good. And hopefully it makes you feel good and hopefully it makes you think about you know the value of open source to your own careers and to your own teams as you're thinking about hiring. So, you know, reiterating what did we learn. Again majority think that knowledge of and contributions open source, give you much better long term job prospects and professional opportunities to grow within your companies. It benefits. The benefits I should say of open source, you know I think are well, you know reinforced with the findings in the study. The developers think that skills related underlying open source is much more important than the proprietary counterparts containers databases and AI are perceived as the most important technologies to know. And then, again, about 50% just over 50% thought that knowledge of these technologies has resulted in higher pay. And so with that, I think I'll turn to questions. We have about 10 minutes left. Great. Yeah, we have one here it says I noticed that the skills of open source and around open source schools are more and more needed and telecommunications. What do you think about building competencies around open telecommunication architects like open ran. I think that again whatever you know whatever domain it is I think that the open sort of side of that, if you will, is probably the one where if I were, you know beginning my career, that's where I would focus. I think, you know, again, the choice of you know which industry, you know which, which vertical you want to focus in is probably yours but yeah I mean I think I think definitely focusing in on communities that are focused on delivering open source capabilities to a given domain are going to be more successful than focusing on proprietary solutions. And you know again you're seeing, again, in many cases, you're seeing in the telecommunications industry for instance you're seeing the AT&T and the horizon and so forth. They're engaged in these open source communities around networking and so forth so absolutely. Great. This next one is a little bit long so bear with me. Because since 2018 at least five multi billion dollar companies, Redis Labs, Cockroach Labs, Confluent, publicly traded MongoDB and recently Elastic have changed their software licenses to block Amazon from reselling their software to AWS is massive customer base representing a combined market capitalization of about $42 billion. In conclusion of Elastic, these companies appear to be driving momentum in favor of business models built around more restrictive licensing and sending a signal to emerging open source startup seeking to compete with Amazon's cloud division. Do you see a battle over open source business models and movement towards more restrictive licensing. You know this is one of those. This is a really good question. And it's very topical. I think you know many would say that open source isn't the business model, and I think that's correct. But what is a business model is what do you do with the software and delivering a service. You know whether it's a SaaS offering or delivering software offering and this, you know the services and support around it are real. That's where the real value is not so much the code. And again the value of open source is in the community that builds up around it. And I'm not going to, you know, pick on any particular vendors. In this particular case but I will just say that it. There, there are some who are takers, if you will, you know some who are basically just exploiting the fact that here's this free thing and I'm just going to go use it and contribute very little. This is the way of the virtuous cycle of contribution back. And I think that's sad. It's a reality. But again, it's, it's, it's not something to be solved necessarily by changing one's license to make it essentially not open source. It's actually cutting off the, the contributions and so forth, his developers are looking for the ability to contribute back the ability to know that they're contributing to something that they could use that they could fork that they could, you know, they can do so without, you know, sort of falling afoul of the license. And I'll just say, again, you know, and I highlighted the fact that IBM has been a, I think a very good partner from an open source perspective because we have been contributing back for so long and certainly, you know, from a red hat perspective, that's their, that is their business model, you know, everything that red hat does is based on upstream software upstream open source software. And yet they're doing pretty well from a business perspective. Now are they exclusively the developers for something, you know, no, they they try to build communities that's the whole point is building a diverse community. And making it so that you know becoming part of that community isn't important. It is important to its exploitation. So, yeah, it's, it's sad when we see, you know, those examples that you gave. And I don't, I don't like it any more than any of them do. Right. But the reality of it is, I don't think it's the license that matters, I think, again, it's the community. And, you know, anytime you try and retain control, that's when you tend to lose it. I have about five minutes left, but we have a whole bunch of questions here to get through so I will try to get through them all. David says, apologies if I missed something but how many companies extend software asset management and license management to OSS. If they don't does this cause problems. And how many companies are confident about what OSS they have where it is and what depends on it like OSS config management. This is a really, really good point. I didn't, I didn't bring it up. It's not really a focus of the study but you know, establishing a practice within your organization for effectively managing monitoring and providing sort of policy based governance around the open source that you both consume as well as contribute to, I think is fundamentally important. And it's one of the things that I talked to with clients about all the time. Right, they're asking, how does IBM deal with open source. And, you know, some of them are coming at it from, you know, sort of the license aspect of things right how do we not run a follow of, you know, doing the wrong thing from a licensing perspective but it's also, I think fundamentally important to understand so what technology, what open source technology have you consumed in developing your application your solutioning, you know, in your in your data center and so forth. I understand so that when there is a vulnerability that's reported, how can I get it patched, and should I be, you know, establishing this sort of a practice for ensuring that, you know, if there's a, you know, a zero day vulnerability published, you know that I'm acting quickly to remediate that in my in my enterprise by having a clear understanding about where is something being used. And there are there are vendors out there that provide tooling that allows you to sort of, you know, scan the software, build up a database of use and so forth, within your within your enterprise. And I would highly encourage, you know, every company to sort of establish a, what we call an open source program office that essentially manages, you know, developing the policy and enforcing the policy to a certain extent. Without it becoming onerous, you know, without it becoming an impediment to getting anything done, but having a clear appreciation for what you have in your enterprise is very important. Okay, great. And this is a more general question. And how do we start contributing to open source as a person early in their career. Do we find the right projects to start contributing to, should we look for an easy project to start with, or do we select a project learn its design and source code and then start contributing. Now this is a great question. And you know, my answer to this would be pick something that interests you. Oftentimes, the best. Well, the interest comes from, you know, it's something that you're using right there. There's a saying you know you're, you're scratching an inch, right. And that's where a lot of innovation comes from. And so, if you're using some technology or some tool, and you like that tool but you think it could be a little bit better. Right, that might be a good place to start. But you can start with, you know, necessarily writing code. There are ways to engage in communities that are not always code based so if you're a little bit sort of trepidatious and you, you know, you're afraid of, you know, that somebody will laugh at your code they won't trust me. There are jerks out there obviously but you know for the most part people are very respectful in these communities. You can start with, you know, maybe helping out from a documentation perspective, get if you're a user, and maybe you know better than others about how it should be used and how you should document it or maybe you understand where the documentation is lacking and you can help fill in some of the blanks there. And the other place that you can help out is just in triaging things right, you know, going through an issues list and making sure that the issue is both well described but also provides with an ability to test that the defect is in fact found. So you can just help by triaging and saying yes this is, you know, fully documented it provides the testing necessary to sort of prove that the defect is there. And you don't have to fix it, but you can help by doing that bit of triage and it helps the maintainers of the community to be more efficient in responding to issues and so forth. So, you know, again, there's, there's no right or wrong answer here, right, it, you know, there are some communities that are so large it can be a little bit overwhelming. Then there are some that are so small that they can be, you know, kind of crickets, if you will, and not necessarily her responsive either, you know, finding, you know, the sort of doing the Goldilocks thing of finding the one that's sort of just right. So that is really going to be based on your own personal preferences, the things that interest you, and things maybe that you're using, or maybe where you know there's the best place to start. Next question we have is from Jay, he asks, in your personal vision, do you think we'll move to a more transparent open source like world in the tech space, if so why and what will that world look like. So, so this is, this is a great question. And, you know, it's actually something that I'm, you know, I'm passionate about and I'm working on, you know, when IBM IBM has been involved in open source like I said since before it was cool, you know, back in the early 1990s and obviously we think that it's so cool now that we spent $34 billion on a company, Red Hat, and that that's based exclusively on open source. I have a saying, you know, open source all the things. You know, some people laugh at me sometimes, you know, because I think I'm just kidding. I'm not. Again, I tend to think that, you know, the value of something isn't in the software itself it's not in the code. It's in the support and services you're able to build around it and the, the things that you can do with it, that are much more valuable than the software itself. And, and, you know, being able to sort of have, and I'll take as an example, you know, sort of Kubernetes as an example, they're like 4000 people a year that contribute to Kubernetes or some of the sort of adjacent projects. That's insane. There is no company on the planet that has 4000 engineers working on something. So there is innovation coming from all walks of life, you know, from every, you know, just about everywhere on the planet. All bringing their, you know, either their, their experience and using it in trying to help improve it over time. And, and so they're able to do things that I don't think even Google could have imagined doing on their own. And I think more and more people are starting to sort of get it that that's actually where we're going to innovate. And so, yeah, I tend to think that, you know, generally, the trend is to more and more open source and less and less close source, and that even the proprietary offerings are starting to become a little bit less proprietary, the secret sauce sprinkled in and more, let's just deliver the open source effectively and consistently and provide the best support and services we can for it. Great. Next question. Without open source technologies like OpenStack, Kubernetes, Docker and Ansible, properly integrated to make fog commuting possible. Was this possible using proprietary software? How do you see the future of fog and cloud working together? So, um, so again, I think when I think about something like this, it's really, it's sort of the same message as the hybrid cloud message that, you know, IBM and Red Hat have been harping on. There's, there's no one cloud. There is cloud, right, which is really this fog of different cloud providers and on-premises deployments. And ideally, you shouldn't be worrying necessarily about where it is, but we can integrate these things together. I think that without open source, we couldn't be pulling this off. Again, you know, when I think back in my career to the early 2000s when we're doing web services with Microsoft, it would take us, you know, about a year and a half to deliver a standard to, you know, a specification that we could both ratify, you know, this is IBM and Microsoft, but, you know, the community generally would ratify and agree on and then took another, you know, nine to 18 months to deliver capability based on that open standard, right. And so innovation was slowed. And what happened was the rest of the world just sort of said, well, we can't wait for this, we're moving on, right, and they went down a different path that was based on a lot of open source capabilities and rest and so forth. And so at the end of the day, you know, you have to look at that and say, okay, so did what Microsoft and IBM do and, you know, not just us but, you know, the other vendors out there at the time, what was their mistake? Well, their mistake was being slow and not sort of seeing the fact that, you know, opening things up has actually enabled much more rapid innovation and makes it easier to do those types of integrations. So, you know, again, I definitely think that increasingly we're starting to see just about every dimension of technology is being sort of consumed by open source. All right, we have about four minutes left. So we could probably have time for maybe two more questions. I'm going to take this last one that I see about IBM and professors to be open source. Why haven't we opened up risk and power offerings? We actually did. Open power is a thing it's been a thing for a while. And, and so yeah, the power hardware and the power API is and so forth are all open source. It's contributing to it and it's being, it's actually, it's quite popular in certainly in China, it's popular we have Google and various other vendors participating and contributing to the development of open power. And so, yeah, we have now again, I keep working to try and open up more and more and more and I, you know, we're seeing that happen. Take a look out on the IBM organization on GitHub, I think we are approaching 2000 repositories under there. Two years ago, it was less than 1000. It was more like, you know, 100 and four years ago it was, it was crickets. So, you know, increasingly more and more capabilities that IBM once held is proprietary or going out as open source and increasingly, even the things that are fundamental to our future success things like quantum computing. We've open source we open source the kiss kit SDK for the quantum computer. And we've also open source the, the assembly language specification. Cosm. And, and there's probably going to be more. But it's not just that it's, you know, AI machine learning models around fairness, and, and robustness have been open source and contributed into the Linux Foundation so there's an awful lot that we open source now is everything open source but again increasingly more and more is, and the pressure from the most senior management you know again if anybody gets open source it's Arvin Krishna, who basically was the powerhouse behind the red hat acquisition and so you know I think the end of the day, you know, we have more open with each passing day. Time for maybe one more question. I'm not going to comment on rumors there was also threatened by it for enterprise. I don't I don't see open source is necessarily threatening enterprises unless they don't jump on the band. I don't see it as a threat necessarily. You see any other here that you might be able to answer in our just last moments. Can I comment on the alignment between the IBM and red hat open source offices. We have a good relationship we don't, you know, you know IBM and red hat have this sort of wall between them we're trying to sort of remain somewhat independent of one another for a variety of business reasons. We do have a very solid relationship with red hat in our upstream communities, where we both participate, and we do coordinate on some things like, you know, who's going to, you know, take the lead and organization acts increasingly many of the open source companies that we participate in together are, you know, putting in bylaws that say that only one of an affiliated set of companies can be represented on a board so obviously we have to do some coordination around something like that. And for the most part, you know, again, the, we, we, we try to, you know, remain engaged to, you know, to do, you know, various alignment type things but we aren't like, you know, handing love kind of, you know, marching to a single drummer. We each are going out on our own paths. So much. Well, it's my pleasure. I hope everybody got something out of this. And again, feel free to hit me up on Twitter or LinkedIn. We're responsive to Twitter than I am on LinkedIn. And please do download and read the report. I think you'll find it very valuable. Thank you so much to Chris for his time today and thank you to all the participants who joined us. As a reminder, this recording will be on the Linux Foundation YouTube page later today. And we hope you're able to join us for future webinars. Have a wonderful day. All right, thank you.