 Anyone who's telling you they're making money and all coins is lying, okay? They're gambling. They should go to Gamblehawks Anonymous. That's my recommendation. The best thing to do is to simply hodl. Hold your Bitcoin and let Bitcoin do for you what you cannot do for yourself. And that is get rich. You know, Warren Buffett's track record without getting bailed out by the feds every few months would be horrible. He would be selling hot dogs in the park. What's up YouTube? My name is Giovanni. Welcome back to our show. This time, I'm joined by the host of the Kaiser Report, Max Kaiser. How are you, Max? I'm doing great, Giovanni. Thanks for having me on. A few days ago, Warren Buffett's conglomerate, Berkshire Hathaway, reduced its positions in major banks and bought shares in barric gold among the largest gold mining companies. You said that Buffett's move is likely to bring Bitcoin to 50K. Can you explain the rationale behind your statement? Right. Well, I've been following Warren Buffett's career since I started on Wall Street back in the early 1980s. So I know his methodology in his career pretty well. You know, he was always bashing gold. He hated gold. And in the meantime, you know, he built huge positions in banks. He's a guy who made lost money on the airlines twice, not just recently with American Airlines and Delta and others. But going back 20 years, he made a huge bet on U.S. air and it was a catastrophe for him. He is somebody who's underperformed the S&P, the index for 15 years. He's sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars with the cash and he's ending his career as a bit of a failure. So to try to salvage what he can of Berkshire and his career, he finally did a mea culpa and said, you know what? I was wrong about gold. I need to own some gold. I need exposure to gold. So he's moving into Barrett gold. And this will be the beginning of a huge transition out of financials, which he dumped recently into gold. And then therefore he will soon be moving into Bitcoin or whoever takes his place because remember he's 90 years old now. So whoever takes Warren's place over there at Berkshire Hathaway will be moving into gold. You know, they've been about 10, 15 years behind the curve. They were very late to get into Apple. They were very late to get into Amazon. They hated tech during the entire tech boom of the last 20 years. So they're about 10 years behind the times. So I figured that once he gets a gold position, he'll move into Bitcoin. He's going to mimic what Paul Tudor Jones, who is 10 times smarter and a hundred times smarter than anybody else on Wall Street, recently said that Bitcoin is the fastest horse in the race and comparing it to gold. He loves Bitcoin over gold. He's got a position in Bitcoin. So all these major money managers, old legacy money managers are starting to move into Bitcoin as an extension of their move into gold as a way to get out of the dumpster fire that is the US dollar. Right. Right. So I hear you, but at the same time, I have to point out that Warren Buffett bought gold and not Bitcoin. So what's your rational is that's because gold and Bitcoin are synonymous. They're the same thing. One is digital gold and one is the yellow metal gold that you dig out of the ground. They're both gold. Right. And so now we have a major player who is moving away for 50 years. He's been bashing gold. Now he's into gold. So now because of inflation, because of fiat money, because we understand now that the dollar is going away the Venezuelan Bolivar. So now you have to protect your assets. And so gold and Bitcoin are the go-to assets for preservation, for protection. So Buffett is signaling to the market that he quit pretending that he knows what he's doing when it comes to financials and managing money. He's given up. He quit. He essentially walked off the playing field. He sold all of his airlines at a huge loss and he's retiring. He's toast. He's done. He ended his career on a horrible note. That leads to my following question because you are making quite precise, quite detailed, I would say, predictions for the price of Bitcoin most of the people we interview are usually more cautious. They tend to be very generic in terms of price prediction while you back in July said that Bitcoin was going to reach the 28K benchmark before correcting and then hitting six figures. So how can you make these kind of detailed price predictions? Well, my first prediction was in 2011 when I said I'm looking for Bitcoin to go to 100,000. So that prediction is still in place from 2011, almost 10 years ago. So that's my longstanding prediction. I recently increased that to 400,000 because I now am completely confident that Bitcoin will compete with gold. So that's the macro trend. That's the multi-decade trend that we're talking about. Now, within that series of predictions or within that series of price targets, you've got medium and short-term price targets. On the short term, obviously the run to 20,000 is key because that would make new all-time highs. And so once it gets through 20,000, from being a long-term Wall Streeter, trader myself, I've been basically in stocks, markets and finance for over 35 years. Once you see an asset like this break through the old high and make a new high, you should see a surge into an extension of, in my view, I think we'll see 28,000 on that run before we see any meaningful pullback. That's the way I see, that's the way I read this market. Got it. So switching a bit topic, you commented about the latest drop of Chainlink, which is like one of the most successful DeFi tokens lately. You said that altcoins only exist to steal your Bitcoin. What do you exactly mean by that? The track record is clear that altcoins are basically designed to steal people's Bitcoin. So you can't really argue against that point. There's only been theft of Bitcoin. That's the only reason altcoins have really existed. DeFi is just the flavor of the month. Remember a couple of years ago, it was ICOs and before that, there's always the invention of new things coming down the pike. But for people to stay focused on Bitcoin is a primary thing that must be emphasized. And you've got a lot of activity in these various altcoin markets that can really be destructive to somebody's portfolio. With Link, of course, they had the Winklevoss twins on with Dave Portnoy and they talked about it. The price jumped up. People kind of got FOMO'd in. And now it's dropped 20%, right? So people should not be wasting their time trying to day trade the altcoin market. Just buy Bitcoin and hold it. That's the one thing you can do for yourself. Don't try to time the Bitcoin market. The altcoin market with all these different coins. And because we know from the last eight, nine years that it's very destructive to people's portfolios. There's just so much has been lost trading these altcoins. And for the vast, I would say 99.9% of people who buy Bitcoin just to understand Bitcoin is a huge task that will take up a tremendous amount of their time that they should just focus on that. Don't try to dig into the minutiae of every coin that comes down the pike. And so I stand by my statements. So far, every coin that's come down, come along, has been good at stealing people's Bitcoin. That's pretty much been the only use case so far, including Ethereum. Ethereum gets a lot of hype. But as the recent scandal about the accountability of Ethereum points out, the people of Ethereum don't even know how many Ethereum there are. It's still in beta. It shouldn't even be trading. The fact that they were even allowed to get out there without a lot closer scrutiny from regulators is a miracle. And it's just not really worthy to be considered in the same category as Bitcoin. On the other hand, talking to some experienced traders, they have been making good money and good results by trading altcoins, especially this year, with all these DeFi coins that have been showing outstanding performance. Right. If you go to a casino in Las Vegas and you talk to every gambler in there, they'll say, oh, we're making lots of money. We've always made lots of money. I'm making money gambling. No gambler tells you they're losing money. Anyone who's telling you they're making money in altcoins is lying. They're gambling. They should go to Gamble Hallix Anonymous. That's my recommendation. I mean, you may make money one month or two months, but are you going to make money over five years, 10 years, 15 years? Gambling? No. We know categorically, emphatically, without equivocation. The answer is a big fat no. So you deny the existence of coherent and successful risk management strategies? Yeah. As I've been saying, I've been following this for 35 years. And so far, nobody has beaten the market, any professional, any market, except for maybe two or three people. You've got Paul Tudor-Jones, who is very successful. George Soros is very successful. Other than that, the number of people who have successfully day traded the stock market in any market, altcoin market, stock market, bond market, is about three or four in the past 40 years. And that's it. That's the fact that nobody beats the market on a consistent basis. There is no evidence of that. After years and years and years of research and compilation of data and publishing of data, there's been no successful trader who has consistently beaten the market in a meaningful way over any consistent length of time. Look at the hedge fund market. There's 9,000 hedge funds. None of them have beaten the market consistently for more than a year or two. Even Ray Dalio is considered to be the most successful hedge guy in the world. His track record stinks. He loses money. He doesn't make any money. That's complete nonsense. That's why the best thing to do is to simply hodl. Hold your Bitcoin and let Bitcoin do for you what you cannot do for yourself. That is, get rich. Moving on to the next question. I want to talk about the flight of capital from China, which we saw this year. Around $50 billion in cryptocurrency were moved from China to wallets overseas. You celebrated this piece of news saying that this is all capital that is taking the Bitcoin Express. On the other hand, this money was largely moved through Tether, which is a dollar-based stablecoin. Why are you so celebrated about Bitcoin when it's not about Bitcoin but Tether? Tether is part of the Bitcoin ecosystem. It shouldn't really be separated meaningfully from the trends that are going on at Bitcoin. As far as Asia and China moving money out of the country, taking the quote Bitcoin Express, this should be celebrated as it will be in all countries everywhere because the nation state, as we know it, is dead. The nation state won't survive the next 10 or 15 years because the nation state only survives to the extent that it can print its own money and then enforce people against their will to accept that money. Now for the first time with Bitcoin, you've separated state from money. That now we have individual sovereignty and people are not going to be, people are going to go to places that appreciate their wealth. If you have any wealth, why live in a country that doesn't respect your wealth? Why not just take your money, get a 24-week word seed phrase, and go somewhere where you got some respect for your wealth and the government's not there to harass you. If people are unhappy in China, if people are unhappy in America, if people are unhappy in Canada or wherever, they should leave immediately and take their wealth with them with Bitcoin. And let's get rid of these nation states because they've become no longer useful, they're outdated. Tether is just a, it's part of the ecosystem. It's a way to insulate against some fluctuation risk and volatility risk. When you're moving between currencies, you're parking fiat in a tether and then moving it into a Bitcoin, et cetera. So it's just part of the backend of the global infrastructure that is Bitcoin. I don't have any problem with it. So you said in 2017, you supported the initiative taken by President of Venezuela, Nicolás Maduro, to launch their own oil-backed cryptocurrency, the Petro, as a reaction to US sanctions and the economic downturn that the country was going through. So that initiative proved to be unsuccessful because so far very few people in Venezuela knows how to use the Petro and a lot of rating agencies even consider it like a scam. So why did you take a supportive position towards this initiative and what do you think about it now? Right. So my position in 2017 with the Venezuelan Petro is that it was a good stepping stone to Bitcoin. I said it's great that the government is recognizing crypto and it's great that they're trying to do their own coin. And if they're lucky, they'll graduate to Bitcoin. It's just a stepping stone. I said the coin itself will fail because it's centralized. And of course, that will never work. But if it gets into Bitcoin, then that's great. That's what I said. So like as a way for popularizing Bitcoin, right? Yeah. I also heard a couple of weeks ago, we got the information that Iranian government was also into Bitcoin that they were allocating resources through mining Bitcoin. Okay. That's extremely important developments. So around the world on the margins, countries are now getting into Bitcoin. They went through their experimentation phase. And it's the same thing will happen with the central banks, you know, but they may get into what I call around the world as a hash war where countries are now competing for Bitcoin the same way we went into a space race in the 1960s when the Soviet Union had the Sputnik project and suddenly America said, you know what? We have to land a man on the moon. Well, if Nigeria suddenly became a Bitcoin powerhouse or Belarus, which has a big stash of Bitcoin or Iran or Venezuela, they suddenly had a huge stash of Bitcoin. Other countries are going to be like, wait a minute, we need to join this hash war, this hash race and get some Bitcoin. That means the difficult that means the hash rate goes up, security goes up, price goes up, value of fiat goes down. And it's interesting because in some countries, the message resonates a lot stronger in Mexico, where our show is dubbed in Spanish, you know, the Kaiser report, we have a huge fan base there. And when we go to Mexico city, you know, we get mobbed by people in the streets, they love the fact that Bitcoin has totally changed their outlook upon life. They've changed their lives. We do our live events there. We get huge crowds. And it's just a joyous experience really. And you know, the country is in huge is obviously going through some big difficulties in Argentina. You know, we were there a few months ago. The Argentine peso is a complete disaster. It has been for years. But the people in Argentina that are now on the Bitcoin lifeboat are very happy that they got on the Bitcoin lifeboat. And these are people for whom buying gold would be difficult. You know, gold is hard to transport. Gold and silver are very difficult to move around if you're trying to leave the country. If you want to get out of a country that's under stress, it's going to be almost impossible to take your gold and silver with you. Where Bitcoin gives you the freedom to move. It gives you financial sovereignty. You know, it gives you all these benefits that suddenly instead of being in a place of despair, you're in a place of hope. And that's a very big difference in somebody's life to make a transition from I'm in a total shithole of despair to being I am hopeful that I can get out of this and thrive. And that can be available only through Bitcoin. Nothing else gives you that. Got it. And actually, the last question is actually connected to what you just said. Because you have been pointing at the Cantillon effect as a main cause for wealth inequality in the world and in the financial traditional system. And you also said that Bitcoin is an instrument that can fix this Cantillon effect. So can you explain what this Cantillon effect is and how can Bitcoin fix it? Right. So the Cantillon effect, then we coined the term Cantillionaire on the Kaiser Report. These are people that are rontiers on the economy. These are the people that live closest to the money printers in Washington who get the money first. And then they go out and they'll buy an apartment in Park Avenue in New York City for $200 million. And their friends will do the same thing. And suddenly those apartments on Park Avenue in New York City are worth $300 million. So then they borrow money against that asset that they just bought with the free money they got from the Fed. And those assets go up in value. So the money never makes it to the real economy. It gets stuck at that very, very narrow group of folks who get it first. So when the government prints money, it goes through the primary dealers and it goes to the banks on Wall Street essentially. And then they keep it. They don't make loans. If you look, all you need to look at is two charts. One is M2, which is the money supply figure. If you notice, if you look at that chart, it's a 45 degree angle that goes up. And then in the last year or two, it's a 80 degree angle, 90 degree angle goes straight up. They're printing money, trillions and trillions and trillions, incredible amounts of money printing all over the world. Straight up hyperbolic money printing. Okay, now take another chart, the money velocity chart, which is the shows you to what extent is the money circulating in the economy. It's at a 45 degree angle down. It's close to zero. So that's the contilling effect right there in two charts. M2 and money velocity. M2 skyrocketing, money velocity going to zero. That's the contilling effect. The money doesn't go anywhere after they print it. It stays in a few hands and it never circulates. It's uncirculated money. And as a result, you have this enormous wealth and income gap, social unrest. And, you know, problems are getting worse and worse. But the people who, and Warren Buffett is one of those contillionaires, without, you know, Warren Buffett's track record without getting bailed out by the feds every few months would be horrible. He would be selling hot dogs in the park. He would be on a bump on a park bench, like a bum. He simply exists. He's a contillionaire. He doesn't, he does nothing productive. He's never invented anything. He's never really provided any services. He just sits there in his basement, collecting free money from the fed, and he doesn't even do anything with his life. He doesn't travel. He doesn't do any interesting things. Okay, so and Bitcoin in this case can fix this contilling effect because it's basically a solution for the central bank government of finance, right? Well, it takes all the middle, there's no middleman. There's nobody in the middle. It goes right directly from God to consumer. Max, that was very good to speak to you. It was very interesting. Thanks for being with us. Oh yeah, it's my pleasure as always for Cointelegraph, the one of the finest publications in the Bitcoin space for sure.