 Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not Islam is true and we are starting right now with Muhammad's opening statement. Thanks so much for being with us Muhammad. The floor is all yours. Thanks James for having me on and hi. Hello Tom. Everything is well for both of you. So to kick it off I just want to start with my opening statement. The land in disguise are built in truth. Truth is what we classify as factor reality. Exposing benzene to a spark will ignite the chemical is as true as patient and persistence overcomes. That is the truth that we cannot deny because it has been proven. The laws have been set and it is not us who is setting those laws, nor can we change them. We are subject to these laws that are unbreakable. Generally, as humans we are born with basic emotions, certain senses, and without the perception or acknowledgement of any knowledge. We look for sources that are outside of ourselves to guide us on what we are and what is our purpose. In some families, a parent might set rules on their household and their children are subjected to these laws. The parents would be in control. Later, that child might grow up and is then a subject of social structure and it's applicable law. If they are employed, they are also expected to adhere to the laws that have been placed by their employer. The laws in any system provide control and the entity that sets that laws is the control. Bigger social systems have bigger opportunity if the subordinate is complicit and active. As we grow within our own selves and our own lives, our source of guidance is expanded or sometimes changed. Some reach to a point where they try to define why universal laws have been set and many willingly accept these laws and adhere to them as they unravel them. To many, the entity that sets these unbreakable law is God, but God is more than just an entity that sets laws and one's own definition of what God is measures on how close a person is towards the truth. One might recognize that adhering to the laws that have been set on them while shedding the irrelevant gives them a sense of understanding purpose and belonging. Adhering to these laws and accepting the entity that designed and programmed this system that we're in is what submission to God is or in Arabic Islam. Essentially, believing in the highest power gives you the understanding on how to deal with the events and forces that occur around you which are outside your control. Both me and you know death is coming. One of us is running away from it while the other is running towards it. The state of submission gives you a total peace and safety, just like how a toddler feels under the supervision of their father under a healthy household. A human, despite tribulations and unknowns, a person who trusts in the unbreakable, truthful, incorruptible system feels safe and secure. Submission or Islam in Arabic again guides you on how to understand ethics, morality, how to build relationships and how to succeed in what you sought out to do. Submission teaches you on how to act under hardships and tribulations. You not accepting in the highest power who is maintaining, recording and administrating this world, you cannot explain to me in a coherent fashion on what my purpose is. Yet submission or in Arabic Islam gives me a clear purpose. This is backed by simple observation that anyone can agree to. God created everything to work. You cannot deny that there is a world around you. You do accept that as a human, you get positive emotions and feelings when things are peaceful, clean and not functional. As a human, you have the superiority after God on earth. As a creature, we are favored over all other creatures that are present in this world. We have the authority to domesticate and improve the life of animals, which sign proves that they also have emotions and undergo hardship. We have the tools and ability to survive and thrive as a species while keeping the earth clean and in check. Our duty is towards the world that we are in and not to ourselves. When a person in history comes along with a genuine and honest outlook that they are here to make the world better, they outlive their own lives and they live a meaningful life. That is why many years after the fact, we still hear about Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and other individuals that found peace in working and serving God. And as I said, serving God would be to represent the authority that we clearly have on earth in a fair, just and humane fashion. To feed who needs to be fed, to care for who needs care, to fix what needs to be fixed and to unite rather than divide. It is clear that us as humans, we tend to put the needs of others at a lower priority and we value our own self-existence and we fall into serving our bodily desires. Regardless if you believe in God or not, we all do preach that self-control is something that is must for a civilized society. The laws and guidelines that are in the Torah, the gospel and the recital or in Arabic the Qur'an help you achieve self-control. Adhering to the advice and guidance that is in said books grants you a meaningful life with a promise that's built on trust as you learn how to navigate through life's challenges. History never wrote about a flourishing and righteous civilization getting wiped out. It was always the oppressive, arrogant, self-entitled societies that thought they were unbeatable who lost the war of survivability. Similarly to what we see America going through in modern times. America began by a split from a corrupt and deceitful European church to establish a new system. The earliest record of the modal in God we trust was in 1748 and with that aspiration of being an honest, fair and welcoming nation, God favored America until they became the superpower of the world as we all know with power comes responsibility. And just like how the Pharaoh turned into an oppressive nation, America has done the same. And America along with many nations in the world are looking at a similar fate or end that Pharaoh found. This is outlined in Islam. It's something that's observable time and time again, just like a science. Oppression does not guarantee survivability while honesty does. Submission gives you the guidance required to outlive and survive this world with a promise of a better world here and after death. You've got to thank you very much for that opening statement, Muhammad. And I want to let you know folks, if it's your first time here at Modern Day Debate, we are a neutral channel hosting debates on science, religion and politics. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you were from. And if you haven't yet, hit that subscribe button as we have a big juicy debate coming up this Friday here on Modern Day Debate with apostate prophet and Muslim apologist on whether or not Islam is harmful to the world. You don't want to miss it. Hit that subscribe button if you haven't. And with that, Tom, thanks so much for being with us as well. The floor is all yours for your opening statement too. Well, I heard absolutely no evidence in what he said whatsoever. I mean, he gave some feelings and some assertions that he thinks religion is required for things that it's not required for. And he thinks that honesty somehow makes it more likely you're going to survive, which isn't the case. So I mean, nothing he said was actually evidence Islam is true. There is no evidence Islam is true. Naturalism best explains all the evidence, all the arguments. Best explains morality. Best explains beauty. Best explains literally everything because at least as a basis in reality. So I've not really much else to go on. Nationalism better explains literally everything is the only thing that makes novel testable predictions. The only thing that makes progress in humanity is the only thing that makes the world better. I'll conclude there. With that, we're going to jump into open conversation. Folks, if you haven't had a question, feel free to fire it into the old live chat here on YouTube at modern day debate. If you at me, that's one way to submit a question as well as super chat in which case we bump it to the top of the list. And with that, thank you very much, Tom and Muhammad. The floor is all yours for open dialogue. So in a sense of evidence, if someone is more honest than I mean someone who's honest himself and his feelings and what he witnesses and tells people, does that person usually go further in society than someone who's a liar and known to be a liar? No, what does it have to do with evidence? The evidence is other people's lives. How's that not evident to you? What, what is, what do you think the word evidence means? Evidence is proof. It's literally not. What are you saying to the evidence? Evidence is something that makes it more probable a proposition is true or false. Proof is something that is deductive means it has a certainty that it's true or false. Those are two separate things. Proof is like math, mathematics, one plus one equals two, that's a proof. Evidence is like, it's more likely that swans are white than black, because there's more white swans than black swans. So inductively, again, he given swans more likely to be to be white. Okay, but I'm talking as a human being. So, so now tell me where's the proof in science? How does science explain that something that's as genetically close to me as a monkey or a mouse? I assume that our DNA and our genes are close to a monkey and a mouse. Is that correct? Yes, because we can see patterns in the DNA that only exist in very specific phylogenetic trees. And so we know how related we are in the same way we know that you're related to your parents, because we can see that there are specific genetic mutations that your parents have that you have that your cousins and nephews don't that your distant relatives don't. And so like endogenous retroviruses are a good example of this. Endogenous retroviruses are a virus that inserts its DNA into a reproductive cell. And so all of the offspring of that reproductive cell when it grows up will all have this endogenous retrovirus and exactly this location in a three billion long DNA chain. And so if we find we can find these things that are in one specific spot, either it's the case that this one random virus randomly injected itself into the exact same position and only that position for all of these offspring for each of the species. And there are hundreds of these or they have related through reproduction, which we know we can what we can see when the cell divide copies the same genes. And endogenous retroviruses inserting its DNA into one location they've been copied makes a lot more sense than it randomly injecting itself into the exact same location. Hundreds of thousands of times across species with hundreds of thousands of different genetic codes. Time my question again, are we genetically close to a mouse and or and monkey like are we genetically cousins like how was the difference in our DNA and our gene makeup from percentage point of view. Like, what what depends on which factor in DNA are using to compare. We're closer than trees, we're closer related or more related to monkeys than we are to mice and we're more related to mice than we are to trees. Okay, but looking at what I saw online that our DNA makeup is closer to to to mice than we are to monkeys so my question to you is that why why don't that okay well. I don't I don't know what your bad bad research is but I don't really care like what is how it relates to evidence of a God. So my well my question to you is why does do we have that spark of intelligence that other creatures that don't have the same gene pool as us how come they're not building and communicating the same way we do. How can they just go off impulses and we don't. Would they have the same intelligence we do just to a lesser degree. No, more great gray area. What does this have. I'm still need evidence you said this is evidence that is true. You provided it. No, no, Islam is true in the sense. Well, I guess you're not understanding the fact what Islam is submission. So quick question and again is a very word true mean true is valid. So the way you act when someone submits to the truth valid. What doesn't mean valid. No, true does not mean positive means one means yes means positive does not mean any of those things so so valid means that the conclusion necessarily follows from the premises so if p then q q therefore p, or p then q p therefore q. One of those is valid one of those is a permanent consequence policy valid is just the conclusion follows from the premises through is about soundness soundness is are the premises true has nothing to do with validity completely irrelevant from validity Okay, so so when we're saying what is truth. What is true is something that is sound correct something that is sound. So if someone someone who's practicing patients, someone who's practicing patients, someone who keeps calm and someone who who has the ability to to to deduce it and say what needs to be said, while also is maintaining his his his persona without break without falling into traps of emotions like he doesn't let his anger take over him. And he can hold himself when things are not sounding the way he likes. Those are all what Islam teaches this is all what's being preached in the religion is on how to handle yourself is how to take care of yourself. What teaches you how to teach do spells but what does that have to do with truth like what what is the word true mean, the truth, the truth is something that's evident, something that's evident in front of you, as you said. There are things that are evident that are false. That's not what truth means. The truth is the truth is that which corresponds to reality. The truth is okay so something that's evident that's something in reality so we can see it. No, no, there are things that are true that are not evidence things that are evident are things that we can indicate with evidence. Tom, is it a fact that someone who is patient can outlast somebody that who it isn't because then anger takes over. Is that correct or wrong. Yes, and that is correct and it's also true that someone who's anger can last longer than someone who's called. But I'm talking as a human being. Okay, I'm talking is just human being in the not in nature stuck with a bunch of animals. I'm talking in the civilized community, someone who is patient and honest goes further in said community is that Have you never seen Donald Trump, but I live in America. This is not hard. No, honesty does not get you further in life than life. That person didn't get that person didn't get far in line that person got president of the United States that's pretty far billionaire president with a supermodel wife. Yeah, that's pretty far. I don't know you're listing material things but he's not being someone who's mentioned as as a role model for people. Well, literally half of America is literally saying exactly that. Tom, quick, well, Tom question. Who's a role model to you. Nobody. Why. Why. Yeah, because I don't try to gauge my life based off of other people's lives. So so nobody can make a life better than what you made is a life is what you say. What's no there's lots of people who have better lives than I have what is that. So but for you you don't have a sense of leadership because there is no need for you to have a leader because you know it all. No, literally none of that is anything I said. Okay, then what are you saying you're saying you don't need someone to mentor you or to be in a in a leadership position for you because you don't look up to anybody. What. No, I didn't say any of that I said I don't have a role model. Okay, but why would someone have a role model what's the purpose of a role model. Emotional support guidance teaching lots of reasons there are lots of different independent reasons to have a role model. Because they know what better than me. Whatever. Not necessarily but. Okay, just saying like Stephen Hawking knows physics better than me, but I don't consider him a role model. Okay, but because that's just in physics but I'm talking to you about your day to day life. You making the decision you writing your car you're not testing evidence evidence. True evidence Islam Islam is teaching you a certain way of life in things. So is Harry Potter. That doesn't mean it's true. Brother brother when you're insulting me when you're insulting me and you're shaking your head and you're cutting me off and you're just saying no. That's things that are outlined in the book about what you're doing and why you're doing it and I gave you an example and you showed you showed for me. Another valid reason why the Quran is right because I asked you is there anyone that you would put on top of you as a role model and you just said no. Because you think you know it all. No, those are not the same thing. Like I don't understand why Muslims make these very large reaching statements that have literally nothing to do with one another as if they mean the same thing. Like what is not having a role model means I don't look up to people because I am autistic. I have high functioning autism. So I don't look up to people because I don't have an emotional connection to other human beings in the same way other people do. And so I don't have role models in the same reason. I don't like feel the same way about my parents as normal people has nothing to do. So you do it. So you do it me because of your disease. You are unable to understand how social interactions work that you cannot build relations. No, I can just different. So that's also different. Well, it is like you go back to like Islam is true Islam is true Islam is true because because it teaches me how to be patient. It teaches me how to act with people that are going outside of the norm. It teaches me how to forgive even though I'm like, if you hurt me, I have the right to hurt you back. That's just fair. But to forgive you is better. Those are teachings that are in Islam. Islam is teaching Islam. Go back. Why does the fact that it teaches you things make it true? Harry Potter teaches you things. Does that make it true? But I can't sit here and learn the magic spells and see them done in front of me. But I can I can learn from the Quran. I can learn from the Quran. You can learn. You can learn moral values from any book. That's literally one. Yeah. And that's that's that's natural. Why does that make it true? Because I'll give you an example. So like in in Islam, right, in submission to God, homosexuality is something that's frowned upon because that's not something that we consider natural. But if a homosexual couple adopts a child who is an orphan, they get the benefit of taking care of an orphan child because that orphan child is looking at a very rough life. Islam teaches us to take care of the orphans. So so what I'm trying to say that's not so the question was is Islam teaches you things. And so my question was is, why does the fact that teach you things indicate it's true? How do you get it? Giving you the complete package. It's complete. Like you as a human you're you're you're you're you're testing you're testing every day. Like if I start lying to these certain people about how I'm feeling, I'm going to get a response from these people. Like, OK, why? Why does it being the complete package indicate it's true? Because then your life improves. Well, a lot of people buy self-help. Like why does people life improving indicate it's true? Brother, that's how it works. Like I don't I don't know what you're looking for your life. That's that's an appeal to consequence fallacy. Literally saying that's literally literally that's literally exactly what it is. But here is the consequence your life improves. Therefore, this proposition is true. If you follow this proposition, your life will improve. Therefore, the proposition is true is a cons appealed consequence fallacy. The fact that something will make your life improved doesn't make it true. But OK, like I can believe. I can believe that I have. It's not one thing. It's about the morals that comes with it. And they all based on facts and truth. Literally nothing to do with anything I've just said. So what I said was saying that because it has some good consequence doesn't make it true. For example, I could believe that I'm going to die and go to heaven and be flooded with Instagram models and money. And that makes me super happy and live my life in a much more confident and fulfilling way. And so it made my life better, even though it's completely false. The fact that something could make you live better doesn't make it true. That's why science isn't like, well, you know what, you'll live better if you believe that you're rich. Science doesn't care what you believe. It's completely relevant. There are no beliefs that matter to science. What we care about is the evidence. But here's the thing. Science cannot explain everything. Science is not evidence to everything. So it doesn't matter. No, it does matter. So for why do you think that matters? Well, let me explain it to you before you cut me off. You see? So what I'm trying to say is there's some facts and realities that come out of things that are not proved by science. Science cannot prove feelings. Science cannot give you evidence on why there's feelings. Science. There's emotions. No, there's a science of emotions, but it does not. Emotions and feelings are synonyms. No, they're not. Would you like to read the, read the article that people say? Like I can show you. Like the dictionary. Yeah, go ahead. Go to the dictionary. Emotions. It's about synonyms, right? Emotions. And then synonyms, feelings, synonyms, synonyms, synonyms. Feelings. Emotions. Love, care, affection, tenderness, tenderness, warmth, and warmness. Emotion. Oh, look, it's the sixth. The sixth one. Feeling, noun, synonyms, emotion. Synonym doesn't mean it. It's an exact equal. Oh my God. No, no, no. It doesn't work that way. Not have synonyms. Synonym, definition. Synonym. A word or phrase that means exactly or nearly as a word or phrase. Or what? Or nearly. It's not exact all the time. A word or phrase that means exactly or nearly. Or saying another word. So there's synonyms. Like I said, they're synonyms. They mean the same thing. But you could study. You could study emotions, but it's very difficult to study feelings. So you can have the emotion of anger. But for you to recognize, you say, brother, there's no time. They're not the same thing. What do you think the difference is? I'm trying to explain it, but you keep cutting me off. I guess you need to find a little bit more peace in your life and let the person speak. Because people who disbelieve in higher power and think they're the highest power, and they're the only ones who judge what's right or wrong, their ears don't work. So just... No, no, no. What I need is a valid argument. I need some valid premises. Conclusion. But your style of arguing or debating is just cutting the person off and saying, no, let the person make a point before trying to jump a different point. Listen, every sentence says four things that are wrong. You don't know the definitions of 90% of the word you're using. You yourself cannot define things. So what I'm trying to explain to you, emotions... I just did. Just to get to the actual... What's the actual argument, Muhammad, just to keep it on track? Okay. Yes. Sorry, James. So emotions, you could be angry. You could get the emotion of anger. But for you to recognize you're angry, that's the feeling. That's the difference. So we could see... So emotions are very adaptive form of psychological response and it regulates our life. Emotion is expressed largely in the fear of the body through posture and facial expression, as well as through internal processes as heart rate and blood pressure. Moreover, all of these bodily responses are fed back to the brain through neural channels as well as a humoral channels which bypass neural signaling to understand how emotions work on the body and how these work on the body. We must differentiate emotion from feeling. When we experience any of the primary emotion sadness, happiness, anger, fear, surprise and disgust, our experiences express themselves physically. That can be observed by another person. Feelings by contrast are our conscious perception of all these changes happening in our body and of the very subtle changes that are happening in our way of our cognitive functions. So what I'm trying to explain is... Neurology, feelings and emotions are synonyms. Problem-solves. So your paper is wrong. In CBI. So literally none of what you said matters to anyone. No, it does. Because people undergo through feelings which you know you go into feelings. How does any of that... Islam teaches you how to deal with those feelings. That's evidence for people who love it. So does Harry Potter. Again, you just keep thinking. It says words to get you to learn things. Therefore, it's true. Those sentences don't work. The fact that it says words for you to do things doesn't make it true. For example, you can have a manual that teaches you how to build a house and it says there's a flying spaghetti monster. The fact that it teaches you how to build a house doesn't mean the flying spaghetti monster exists. The fact that it teaches you how to do stuff does not mean it's true. But this is back to my point. If the entity that is telling me on how to have a successful life in a ways to dealing with the tribulations that I'm going through and it's not yet outside of my own control, then that entity that told me said things is a lot more intelligent and wise than I am. No. Why not at that point? Because again, you can say random things like gibberish, like Deepak Chopra levels of gibberish and it makes people feel good and people can interpret that in such a way that they need them to take actions and those actions may make their life better. But it doesn't mean the person who said the gibberish was smart. Like literally, the fact that there is a book that tells you to do stuff does not mean the book has any truth value towards the fundamental nature of reality. Like if I go to Home Depot and I get a guide on how to build a shed and it teaches me how to build a shed and the shed improves my life. The shed is just, it helps me to protect my tools and I save money, it improves my life. Does that mean the author of the shed book is the most fundamental, smartest person in the world and smarter than me? If it's just building a shed, no. But if it's building your whole life from the start to the finish... That's the shed. But that's just the shed. I'm talking about your life from A to Z from the beginning to the end for even how to do science that you keep referring to. But now I have a question to you. How does science tell you how do you live your day-to-day life? Just a quick question before you get in the car. Do you check your octane leveling in your car just to make it the right efficiency? How do you live your life as a person who does that? Mechanic does that, which is why it works. Mechanic checks all the different... Mechanic tests the octane in your fuel before you go driving. Well, if you have octane in your fuel like if you're using nitrous or something he'll test that, yes. Oh, okay. So cars run off nitrous just naturally. The way we fuel our cars is off nitrous. Well, some of them, yeah. So that's the booster stuff. The red thing that makes it go faster. When you start your car, it's starting with nitrous right from the get-go and you're driving the whole time with nitrous oxide. Not as a boost. No, no, no. No, why are you saying so many silly things? Because I'm not saying silly things. I'm trying to make you get to your point which I'm asking very silly. Science tests stuff and it verifies things are true through novel testable predictions. Okay, so how many sugars do you like? You can coffee. An ounce and a half per five cups. Okay, so is that truth now? No, it's an opinion. It has nothing to do with truth. But that's your reality, correct? No, it's my feelings. It has nothing to do with reality. But feelings and emotions are the same, correct? I'm going back to the... Feelings and emotions are the same. So why is it two? What's the scientific evidence behind the fact that you pick two, not three or zero? Because one releases more dopamine than the other in my brain when I taste it. Okay, so now if I'm looking at exploring the basics of emotional psychology and the science of emotions and people writing about how there's a whole study on just the science of emotions, that science is supposed to tell me why you like two sugars in your coffee and not three. No, because the science is representative of the sensations. The sensations tell you what you like and those sensations are caused by the neurological states which can be then described through science. What does this have to do with the topic? What happens with a human if he just goes off all their emotions from time... I get angry, I start yelling. I'm happy I start laughing. We do. We literally do go off our emotions. Literally, you can't do logic without emotions. If your emotional center of your brain is damaged, all of your logic and ability to do logic is gone too. We can recognize our emotions, but we don't go off them. I can be frustrated and angry of you, but I'm not going off my emotion. I'm not yelling at you. Because you have a different emotion. You have multiple emotions at the same time. Some of the emotions supersede other emotions. And those emotions cause different levels of electrical signals and neurons. And the ones that's the superseding electrical signal is the one that will determine your action. This is super basic stuff. No, it's not super basic stuff because there's something that's called training. So someone who's... Someone's habit of yelling when they're angry. Can you go back? I want you to give me a valid argument. You use the word valid. That's a good word. Valid argument that indicates the existence or the truth of Islam. Give me a valid argument. Premise one, premise two, conclusion. Why are you changing the topic of the debate when the topic of the debate is Islam true? So there is a real... I literally asked for an argument that has premises and a conclusion that says Islam is true. Please give me an argument with premises and a conclusion that shows Islam is true. Islam is true is because it teaches you to live in a certain way. Okay, so premises... Do you know how premises work? You can't just say Islam is true because premise... If P, then Q, P, therefore Q. Okay, so if P equals Q, then what? Say it again. If P, then Q. Yeah. P, therefore Q. If the way I live due to what I taught makes me a very good human being, then what taught me is true. Okay, that's the appeal. That's not valid. That's literally not valid. How is that not valid? Because the conclusion doesn't follow from the premises. That's why. Okay, now my question to you, how can we test this theory? If you're saying that feelings and emotions... Right? I'm getting back to the point there. Feelings and emotions are synonymous. And the way I'm living is giving me positive feelings because the emotions and the feelings are... Your feelings have nothing to do with truth. It doesn't matter what feelings you have. Literally irrelevant. All human feelings are completely irrelevant to truth. Alpha Centauri is a galaxy. This is my point. This is my point. Emotions is not something that you can control. But your feelings, you can control. None of that matters. Literally, none of that matters. Because if all human feelings go away, like all humans die, zero feelings left, zero emotions left, all humans are dead. There will still be true facts. Things will be true. Alpha Centauri will exist. Black Horses will exist. Truth has nothing to do with feelings or emotions. Literally, what affects your feelings and emotions is completely irrelevant to truth. If Islam was true, it would have nothing to do with your feelings and emotions. No, no, no. We're talking about truth. Yes, you're right. Those other topics are true standalone. But is it true that when you help somebody, you get emotions of happiness and you feel as a good human being? That's irrelevant to truth. It doesn't matter what you feel. Again, it's about the emotions. Because it's an appeal to emotion fallacy. Literally, your emotions don't matter. No one cares. No, the emotion is your reasoning on how you see the world around you. If things are making you happy, that's something that you're going to go. You're talking about Instagram. Who cares? I don't care how you see the world. I want to know what's true. That is the truth. How you see the world is not true. Yes, your subjective view of the world is the reason what's driving your own world. It doesn't matter what drives you. It doesn't matter what emotions you feel. It doesn't matter what's causing you to feel those emotions. What matters is what is true, independent of all emotions. That's what truth means. Truth means corresponds to reality. Objective means independent of opinion, emotion, intuition, subjective thought. Objectively true means true, independent of all emotion. What we want, truth, true, correspond reality, independent of all emotion. I understand as a human being, what a person does to judge the world around him is based upon what's going on with him. And to prove what's going on with him, that's when he turns to things like science and history to explain what happened to him. So there are certain situations that any human being put into, it would make them angry. Is that correct or not? Sure, sure. What does that have to do with truth? The truth is that you get angry. The truth is you get depressed. The truth. Getting angry doesn't indicate Islam is true. Do you accept the fact that you get angry? Do you accept the fact? That is a true fact. Okay. So Islam teaches you how to deal with that. But not just anger. So does Harry Potter? No. The name Islam teaches does not matter. I don't know how to more thoroughly explain this to you. It literally doesn't matter what Islam teaches. Something is true. If Islam taught nothing, it would still either be true or false. What it teaches is irrelevant. So what does it teach? What does Islam teach? Since you're so very versed with Islam, what does Islam teach? So what I said was it does not matter what Islam teaches. It would be true even if it taught nothing or it would be false even if it taught nothing. The fact that it teaches stuff doesn't make it more likely to be true or more likely to be false. It has literally zero value to whether or not Islam is true. If something is teaching the truth has no value. If it's teaching the truth by you, because it doesn't matter what it teaches. Again, so true. The word true means corresponds to reality. Reality. Right. So if the reality didn't exist, Islam like Muhammad would still exist. Wouldn't he? If there was no book still exists. Okay. Well, perfect. So you went back to a different point. Islam is to submit to the fact that everything around you is the way it is because it is. Before you go crazy. It isn't the way it is because it is. That is genius. It is. It is the most genius sentence I've ever heard in my entire life. Genius sentence. It is the way it is because it is. It is. Isn't that true? Isn't that true? The reason the gravity... We're not the ones deciding gravity. Gravity is something that we're unraveling ourselves because it's already set how it is. So the laws around you has been set. So Islam existed before Muhammad. The electron that chaired it you're sitting on. Did it exist? All four humans. Yes, it did. So there was a time where there were zero human emotions. No human emotions. And it was still true. And Islam was still true. Because you know what? Right. So the emotions don't matter. They don't make it true. It doesn't make it relevant. Look, it still makes Islam true. I'm saying how Islam applies to a human. Islam is accepting the fact that everyone succumb to the programming that's around them. So an electron, when it's put under certain forces or put in certain circumstances, an electron does its part. It doesn't have a choice. If you put a... Yeah. So an electron doesn't have a choice. And it's the same thing with a human. When a human is put under certain forces in certain situations, the human has to react what a human has to react. But we do have a difference between us and the electron. So if I'm walking by someone who's homeless and I get an idea, and this idea did not come from me, it's just not something that I control. Because people get ideas all the time. If I get an idea to feed that person, where did that thought come from? Where did that thought imbued me to feed that person? Is that something that science can explain? Yes. What? It comes from the neurology. It comes from evolutionary psychology. It comes from the fact that helping others in altruism has a game theory advantage. And so you were evolved to have those kinds of altruistic desires. This is explained by science. Praise to God. Then you're just making it better for me. So now that I get this thought of feeding this person, this thought did not come from me, I have to submit to the fact that I got this thought and feed the person to make the world a better place. Yes. You got it from neurology, not from Quran. I did get it from Quran. Quran told me you're going to get thoughts. Where is your evidence of that? Would you like the verse? I don't care about the verse. The verse isn't evidence. The neurology isn't telling me what to do with the thought. The neurology is telling me how the thought has occurred. Quran is telling me how did you get to the thought? I'm telling you why. I'm telling you why and what you're supposed to do. I got the thought. You told me how I got the thought. I'm telling you what I did with the thought. That's what Islam is teaching. I can make up a story and say what you should do with the thought is Alan Watts it. You should Alan Watts the thought and make it go poof and just go by. How does that make the homeless person's life better? It's making up a story. So I can make up a story to make you do stuff that doesn't make it true. Yes, that's what the Quran is. It's not about being made up or not. You're going to go into stories that you don't want to talk about but let's talk about the basis facts of what Islam is. It's a made up story. Islam says that you were only ordered. There's three things that was ordered on a human being. Sorry, I'm going to stay in Arabic and then I'll translate. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. The only three things that a human is required is to serve god by making the world better place and adhering to the things that make the world a better place for everybody. And the second thing on the list is to pray. Prayer is just giving you the ability to think and connect You do all three things, then you essentially are helping the world. That's all it is. We're not making God's world better because God doesn't need us in a sense of you know how to define what God is. It's just for you, for your own sake. All Islam teaches you is to do, to make the world a better place, is to think and pray about certain things in a positive fashion and to give charity. That's literally what Islam is. What you'd like to argue about is the different curriculums that came down on earth. Because we say Jesus was a Muslim, we say Abraham was a Muslim. They all found peace in their life. And because they found peace, they made curriculums and just because people after them ruined and corrupted the curriculums and the social structures that they set up, the world was a better place when they were here. So again, Islam is teaching you something very basic to take care of the world that's around you and the people that's around you to think for yourself and to pray on it. And then the last thing is to give for you God. So tell me how Islam is false. Because literally that's an appeal to consequence fallacy. We in philosophy know this is a fallacy. We can prove deductively this is a fallacy. We can prove your argument does not work. The fact that it improves people's lives doesn't prove it's true. It's not about improving people's lives. It's about having a proper social system that is a proper social system. Oh, my God. Same appeal to consequence, a different noun, literally a fallacy, literally not evidence, literally irrelevant. Well, isn't our purpose, even as the animals and everything around you, is to carry on and to survive? So don't we need a system to support us? I'm not talking about science is because science is that doesn't make it true. This is the this is called Alvin Plantinga's evolutionary argument against naturalism. Evolution can select for things which are not true. It selects for survivability and not truth because those are two separate things. OK, now it's select for something that makes you survive longer and it not be true. For example, beauty, beauty doesn't exist. There's no objective beauty. It's a thing that our brains have made up, but it's good for survival. It does good things. Your argument would be like mirages. Mirages are a thing that are a product of evolution. They help us survive. Therefore, it's true that that there is actually a no way over there. No, because if you take someone who's beautiful and you put them anywhere in the world, anywhere in the world, the people will say that person is beautiful. But a mirage is is is something that's not really subjective. Subjective, not objective. But the subjectiveness. We've literally done that. So we've literally subjectiveness is reality. People people all have subjective. Yeah, yes, this is reality. Oh, my God. Yes, that's part of reality for people to be subjective. No, so so one, we've done the experiment where we've taken someone who is considered beautiful in one culture like Zimbabwe and brought them to different cultures and they don't think they're beautiful in different cultures. Cultural beauty is a thing that is subjective to culture is not objective. You don't find someone beautiful and put them in any culture and find the beautiful. No, that's not how it works. Secondly, it's literally irrelevant. Everything you're saying again, relevant. The fact that something benefits for survival does not make it true. No, it's something that's explaining what's going on around me. It's not something that's making just the world better. All made up stories are explaining stuff, Zeus, Thor, Odin. All of the gods are made up stories to explain things we don't know. They're called making stuff up. Making stuff up isn't true because you've made stuff up. That's your argument. We made stuff up. Therefore, it's true because it's it's made up. There's not a good argument. That's a terrible argument. Evidence, the way evidence works is here is something about the future. We can know by looking at some hypothesis. Science says if this hypothesis is true, we'll see the asteroid cross every five hundred years, come back in five hundred years. We see the asteroid cross that's a novel future testable prediction, which is confirmed through scientific experiment that tells us what's true. That can differentiate imagination from reality. Your stories cannot differentiate imagination from reality. They just are imaginary. They've literally imaginary stories. So let's make a challenge that both me and you can't do, but let's just put this challenge out there. So there is a drought in California for the last 10 years. Is that correct? Sure. Or is that I'm also OK. So there's been a drought for California in the last 10 years. This drought that a lot of people that believe in God say that it was a causation of God and it's a part of his punishment. So yeah, yeah, you could laugh, you could laugh, you could laugh. But let me get to the point that I would like to make. So let's test this theory by you going to Hollywood and telling people remember Hollywood's in California, which is a fact, right? Good. So what I'm trying to say is like artists that like to sit there and call themselves rap gods and people on the Internet would like to call each other gods of gods of gaming and gods of this. And it's just a big joke that calling each other gods. Wait, wait, I'm getting to my point, right? That's exactly what the pharaohs. OK, that's what the pharaohs did. And that's why the pharaohs got eliminated. So my challenge to you, my challenge to you, my challenge to you is if you would like to stop the drought in California is maybe you could make an experiment to have the people in California stop calling themselves God and let's see if the world gets better. Well, that would that's that's perfectly fine as an experiment. Let's do it. You could prove that would work. That would prove Islam is true. But here's the thing. Here's what almost teaches you. He's that no matter what we say to you, you did the dinosaurs call themselves God, is that why they went extinct? Because they were just going to God's cause the asteroid. No, actually, actually, the story of the dinosaurs is God, he created what's on Earth for us. It's to benefit us. So God put the dinosaurs and look, hold on, you just laugh, man. So when the T-Rex is there to benefit humans, that's that's the purpose of a hundred percent of humans. T-Rex, 100 percent. Can I answer you? Are you just going to laugh like an idiot? Well, I'm definitely going to laugh because what you're saying is stupid. Cool. Thank you. But so God, when he started the nuclear suit and the whatever variables that were put on that nuclear suit that evolved into dinosaurs, right? When God eliminated those dinosaurs and whatever green was around them. And then here we started that evolution suit. But the variables were a little different. That monkeys came out. Later, those monkeys, a faction of them, were became what we call as humans. And they had that spark of intelligence. They found the oil that came out of the dinosaurs and that foliage around the dinosaurs. For us, for us to get to the moon. Oil isn't from the dinosaurs or oil was from small, cretaceous animals, pre-cretaceous, like cellular sized things in oceans. And nothing to do with the dinosaurs. So oil was not. I mean, the dinosaurs did not add anything to do towards oil in any way, ship or form or natural gas. Pretty much nothing. No. Most of the oil comes from pre-dinosaur. That's not what I said. That's not what I said. It's not pretty much. Did they add it? It's like 0.0000000000001 percent. If that's what you think, it's still valid at that point because it's still 0.0000001 percent. Yes, it is. What I said still makes sense. But that's that's one thing. That's one thing that I want to say is that dinosaurs helped in the process of giving us oil. And then the other thing God is showing you that he can create creations, remove them and repeat it so God can bring you from death, right? As you are living now in your consciousness after you die. It's very easy for him to bring you back. So you have scientific evidence that you exist right now because you came from nothing to something. So it's very easy for him to bring you back and you're judged on what you laughed at and what you're warned about. Like, you know, don't be a piece of shit. That's literally the message of every religion that is very close to Islam. And what is Islam telling you? Don't be something that you should be. The notion that petroleum or crude oil comes from dinosaurs is fiction. Oil is formed from the remains of marine plants and animals that lived millions of years before dinosaurs. And I don't have zero to do with oil. Oh, OK, so I guess I guess I guess I guess the the the signs that we had earlier changed. So it wasn't the same. That's what it was before. People used to say that. So your original point was is that God is punishing California with a drought because they're calling themselves gods, which is dumb. It's not very dumb. But there are lots of droughts that happen all over the world. And we can predict them with science based on weather patterns and OK, the amount of water in the air, the temperature that causes water to evaporate. And so we can literally measure and predict when and where these are going to happen based on literally nothing to do with what humans believe or say. What they say makes zero difference to climate. It doesn't say in your gay doesn't cause tornadoes or hurricanes. Saying your God doesn't cause droughts. Those are things in nature. These happen all over the planet has nothing to do with what humans say. So if if my whole mentality is to try to make money and to oppress each other, I'm not going to be taking care of the world and the world's going to answer back with droughts and earthquakes in global. Whatever we're going through. Yeah, it is because it's it's it's an action causation. Yes. Global warming causes warming, which then causes us because of our own actions. Correct. Sure. OK, what do you mean? Sure, it's yes or no. Yes, sure, sure means yes, sure is a synonym with yes. I know, I know, but there is a difference between sure and yes. Synonym is words that mean exactly the same thing. We're very similar. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, because there's there's what I'm trying to explain is that if global warming is caused by us, Islam is teaching you and things on for you not to do things like global warming. If I know for a fact, hold on. If I know where this Islam teach no global warming, I'll tell you before you laugh, because if I run a business and I know I'm too late to laugh before you answered. OK, cool. Can I carry on without you being a clown? Of the two of us, I'm not sure I'm the one with the clown. No, you're definitely a clown. You think you you think you're the one who judges on what's right and wrong because there's absolutely nobody better than you in the world that can teach you the only way you learn is by your own self. Literally, literally not what I said. But no, if I'm a clown, you are the king of Bozo, the it's child of King Bozo Clown. Thank you, but I'll be in heaven when when I'm going to make you not a clown. Being in heaven, I'll be in those doors. But anyways, back to the point that I'm saying, if I'm running a business and I know that I'm polluting the earth, me as an as a Muslim, my obligation, if I know there's technologies to make it better, I have to make it better. Or at that point, I'm causing where does oil come from? Which country? Oil. Yeah, from predominant, predominant oil producer. Which country Russia and when there's another one's bigger than that, which one's bigger than that? Oh, so you would like to talk about Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia? Yes, that's a great example. OK, yeah. So what about Saudi Arabia? Isn't that a Muslim country that produces oil and pollution? Brother, we're talking about Islam. I'm not talking about what people's versions of Islam is. I'm not talking about Saudi Arabia and I'm not talking about what people and in Saudi Arabia, there only is people's version of Islam. That's it. There's not like an actual Islam. It's just people's version. That's all it is. No, no, no. Actually, there is actual Islam and it's people's interpretation of what the book says. There's the mainstream. That's that's what we want evidence for. We want evidence that there's like an actually true Islam independent of any per people's interpretation. But all you keep saying is is well, people have an interpretation that makes their lives better. Therefore, it's more than interpretation. You yourself, unwillingly and unknowingly, you have already submitted to the laws that are around you. So you, in a sense, you like gravity. Yeah, I'm pretty that's pretty knowingly. I'm knowingly submitted to gravity, but it isn't consensual. I don't consent to gravity. Exactly. What does this have to do with what I just said? So I said, but I'm telling you, everything I make an argument for you, like a premise, premise one, brother, you just don't listen. I'm telling you again, everything submitted to God, even yourself. And that's literally what Islam means. I just acknowledge that's not evidence. So so like it's evidence that it's not just an interpretation. You're saying Islam is more than just a subjective interpretation. And your evidence that it's more than a subjective interpretation is that people's subjective interpretation makes their lives better. No, I'm telling you, submission to God is accepting that those laws that are been put on them are there for a reason and they have no choice in it. You sitting on the chair and the gravity acting the way it is. It's not you. You have to accept that willingly or or or or or are you in? How can I say it? Like I'm really non consensually. Yeah, thank you. So again, the argument here is we need a way to differentiate things made up from people's imagination versus things that are true independent of people's imagination. And what you keep saying is that people use their imagination to interpret a story and then their lives get better, which then shows it's not a part of their imagination. No, people zero cents. People read that if you are patient, you get the rewards of being a patient person. And that how does that show it's not imaginary? Not how is it not imaginary? Because go test it. You're impatient, so me and you are not getting to a point where we can discuss because you're just very impatient. But if you show a little patience, then you would prove the Quran is right. How does that show it's not a figment of people's imagination? Islam is just a book written by a bunch of goat herders thousands of years ago. Because it's the same message before Quran and after the Quran, Quran just details it in a way that is very easy for an Arabic reader to how does that show the message isn't made up by a bunch of people and not true independent of people? Because that message exists in reality in a way that people are inspired with said message that keeps getting repeated in history from generation to generation from people that didn't even meet each other. And that's how stories work. That's how King Arthur works. Why does the fact that there are stories that people repeat show that there are more than stories that people repeat? If I said a story to you and someone else across the world said the exact same story. And it's not like a one line. I'm talking about like a whole four hundred pages worth of story. So two people saying the same story is still a story. There's stories. Correct. But if that person is telling you that that's what they witnessed and that's what they were inspired to say and someone across the world said the exact same thing or the same topic in the same fashion, right? But in their own language with the same with the same conclusions. And those people never met where that story come from other than the natural world that's around them. Right. So if two people both came up with Harry Potter at the exact same time, it would still be Harry Potter. It would still be a story. So what we want is we need to occur more of a story that didn't occur. But what I'm what in Harry Potter, that didn't occur. But someone telling you someone someone telling you that you got to watch yourself because you're going to be judged on what you did. That story happens a lot in history so that when you do go to hell and someone asks you, hey, didn't someone tell you not to be a piece of shit? You can't say no. Nobody told me a lot of people told you. So so we need to show it's more than a story. So saying multiple people said stories, doesn't show it's a more than a story, multiple people, multiple people that had absolutely nothing to do with each other said the story. And they all said that it came from an outside source. It's great. So how do we get that they got the story from something more? How is it more than a story? That's the part we're missing. Like because, again, so if I'm going to take a dog to a park, I'm just going to tell him, let's go to the park. If the dog is going to sit there and try to find out why and how and he needs proof that I'm going to take him to the park. It's very hard to teach a dog. If God is telling me who's more intelligent than me, that he's going to revive me and take me to a place, I'm just going to accept that as a fact. Because of the source that is coming to me, it gave me all the other benefits that I need as a human being to deal with all these tribulations that's around me. I got I got nothing. I got I got I've been through this too many times like there's so many things we have to start with just the word true, how a valid argument works, what a premise is just too much, too much for me to try to teach you to get you to be able to teach me anything. I don't need you to teach me anything because I mean, I taught you that. What synonyms mean? I taught you what truth. No, I don't know what you mean. But you were wrong about synonyms and you can see that point. Yeah, you were because they're not always exactly the same. I never said they were. That was not always. OK, would you like to mean they were equal? Does synonym mean? They mean the same thing. Yes, they don't. It is in the cold. All right, I'm ready to go to Q and A. This is this is just I can't just can't do any more. Good. So yeah, Islam teaches you how to submit to the laws that are around you, whether you accept it or not, that's the truth. And we're going to cut people's hands off for stealing. And we're going to jump. Yeah, yeah, because because if I cut your hand off and never steal again, because I don't like it, I don't like it, how I feel when you steal my property. We're going to jump into the QA and you won't like it. If I steal your property so so we could eliminate that temptation by putting a draconian rule like you touch my stuff and I can catch you with it. I'll cut your hand off. But here's the bad rule. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. If you give me back my property, God is forgiven. So I'll forgive you and it's OK. Don't do it again. That's that's how life works. So we know that that's a bad rule that actually works against society, which is why most societies got rid of that rule because it's terrible for society, which proves Islam doesn't actually give you rules to better life or better society. Let's let's let's put it. Let's put it down so that if someone is stealing and you have a fair judge, which America is not a fair judge, anyone who's caught stealing with evidence in his hands cut off, let's see how many people would steal after that. More people would steal. We know that we actually have data on this. We don't. We don't. We do. We literally do. Stephen Pinker did an entire segment on this in his book of having the Stephen Pinker, Better Angels of Our Natures. That's the name of the book where it literally says that when the punishment for the crime exceeds the crime, there's an endorsement to do greater harm. So like, say, if punishment for stealing a candy bar is getting your hand cut off and somebody sees you, well, you could just kill them and then they haven't seen you until you're more likely to get away with the crime. And so if having a harsher punishment for a specific crime will actually cause worse crimes, we know this has been verified through data. So I want to go because this is just so wait, wait, wait, wait. There is no, there is no study to show that people, I mean, if a rule is set that if someone is stealing their hands cut off, that it it increases quite. Yes, there is. We literally have that study. I literally just gave you the study. The book that mentions this. Hands and someone stealing. OK, we're going to jump into this Q&A. Want to say thanks for your question. Because we're going to try to move fast. Let's see. I think it might be frozen, Mohamed. I don't know if you're able to hear me. Oh, there it is. OK, I can. This one coming in from Cameron Hall. Why don't you folks, our guests are linked in the description. That includes at the podcast. Modern Day Debate has a podcast. I don't know if you knew that, but we put all of our debates on the podcast. And you can find our podcast at fine podcast apps everywhere, such as Apple Podcasts, as well as Spotify, of course. And we link our guests, Tom and Mohamed there as well. This one first coming in from Cameron Hall says, my question is, why believe the Koran stories over all other stories and other holy books? OK. Oh, the Koran. I believe that question is for me, correct? Yes, it's for me. So it's definitely for me. Yeah, I just became a light joke to share that. So what I'm saying is that the Koran stories, there's there's there's there's rules that you can pick up from stories that help you as an individual to carry on with your life. And you can see the tribulation that can't wet through people that are better than us. But the stories is just a small portion of what Koran truly is. Koran is teaching us in ways of understanding why you think the way you do and you act the way you do. So you can learn better self control, the promise of a better tomorrow. You better this one coming in from Alan Bupri says, Mohamed, what would make you doubt your beliefs? For me to doubt my beliefs. Well, I can ask you a question is what would make you believe in the existence of God? For me to doubt my beliefs is when the fabric of truth around me starts to to to to break. Novel testable predictions is what would cause me to change my position on the novel testable predictions. You got it. This one from Bitter Truth says, Mohamed, why every single organism genetically, why is every single organism genetically close to each other? Some of the DNA 70 percent, some of it even as close as 90 percent, plus even trees included in that. Don't you think there's a common ancestor? Yes, yes. Actually, if you look at what they call the Mohamedi Indian theory of evolution, evolution is something that is persistent. And it's a topic that is in mainstream Islam. We do believe in evolution. You got it. And thank you very much for this question. Ozzie in talks says, Stoicism teaches you how to handle yourself. How does that make Islam more true than Stoicism? Stoicism just requires belief in the universe and change. So are you familiar with Stoicism kind of this philosophy of self regulation? OK, go ahead. So just like how Stoicism teaches you to go out of your comfort zone, better human being and to handle the world around you, if that's if I'm correct in that assumption, it's the same teachings in Islam. So a lot of things that are in different regions of the world, like you could take the Sikh religion in India, for example, Buddhism, things that are very prevalent in their religion, you will find them in Islam as well. Yeah, like, for example, fasting Ramadan, we fast 12 12 like from sunrise to sunset without water, which is very equivalent to what a stoicism would do. But our picture is a little bigger that we actually give to God, rather than just the universe. You got it. This one from Marty, the mad scientist says, for each guest, Tom and Muhammad, why did God or nature design or evolve human males with such uncomfortable and exposed genitalia? Random chance to revolution. I'll pass on that question. You got it. This one coming in from bitter truth says, Muhammad, did you or science find Adam and Eve who was thrown from heaven? Because sin also. Did you or science find Adam and Eve who were thrown from heaven? Because sin also had ease. I think they're saying hadiths talk about humans are about 7000 years old on this planet, wrong. What? Yeah, it's a little bit hard for me to understand, but I think that they're saying I think they're saying, do you believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans and that humans have only been around for 7000 years? And they're saying science has otherwise. Right. So Adam and Eve are like the that when when the homo sapiens had that spark of intelligence, you could say that first two beings were Adam and Eve. And yes, they did come from heaven, but because the earth existed when Adam was created. Gotcha. And this one coming in from do appreciate your question. Guy with the hair says, when Muhammad first talked about how hashtag honesty gets you further in life, I was going to send a super chat pointing out how Donald Trump exists. But he jumped in it for me. Hashtag debunked. So the super chat to me instead. Bitter truth says, Muhammad shows. Us human respect and humanity in Islam. Toba verse says, take jizya or fight with until they accept Islam. Please don't be personal with T jump. I don't know what they mean by being personal, but they say, Muhammad. We did have that conversation before that before. So I don't know about getting personal with Tom. Thanks. I can assure you, Muhammad has no interest in getting personal with Tom. But it says, Muhammad shows show us human respect and humanity in Islam says, what about when they say they say, what about the verse that says, take the jizya? If I remember right, that something roughly equivalent to a tax or fight with those who don't believe in Islam until they accept Islam. OK, so the word was jihad, like jihad, feasibility, what you want to do is strut into having people come into the system of God or trying to make the world a better place that doesn't necessarily mean fighting by hand or by by by sword. There's a lot of ways of fighting on just like me and Tom right now. In a quick bite. You got it. Guy with Ozzie in talks says, I taught my children and they learned lessons from me, but I am not God just because you learned from me right now. Doesn't make me God either. Ozeanism, that's a. I'll give you a chance to respond to Ozzie. OK, so Ozzie, there is a concept of Islam, which is similar to have mind is since there is a creator that is holding everybody and everything and he has a system we want to be part of that system. So there's verses in the Quran when during a war, for example, and they were they were firing the arrows, God said that you're not the ones who fired the arrows. I was the one who fired the arrows. So it's not me feeding the homeless person who needs help. It's God helping him through me. So I want to be an instrument for God. So that's why you're just teaching me a little things. What God's teaching is everything and God is teaching me through you sometimes. This one from by the way, Ozzie, and for your very first question of the night, let me know I missed that one. I'm really sorry about that. So do please let me know and chat what it was. It was the one that you sent as a member chat. Bitter truth says science based upon observation and experiments. However, Mohammed, what about Islam? How do you judge if your Allah or prophet is correct or true? And they're saying, by contrast, science uses observation and experiments. But what do you use? OK, so the word Allah literally translates to the God. So proving that the God exists is that for me, it goes back to an intelligent design. As for Prophet Muhammad, Prophet Muhammad, he had an upkeep of six to seven different homes feeding everybody in those homes. He was a general in the army. He was a coronal in the army. He was a statesman. He was teaching people about religion. He was a tradesman per person. He would stand four to five hours at night praying. He would establish prayer. He was clergy in his mosque. So he accomplished a lot in his life in a very short time. So I want his mentality so I can work as hard as he did. This one from Zagros Askan says, how does Muhammad explain his prophet's PDF file relations with Aisha and wife striking or beating in 434? Surah, I think they're saying, these alone are enough to debunk your allegedly all loving God, Mohammed. Mohammed is not God, A, B. That Surah has nothing to do with Aisha in Z. I believe Daniel from Muslim Skeptic has a very good video on why certain verses are in a religion in to do with how women are subjugated to the laws of everyone, like everyone else. This one coming in from Ozzie in talks says, knowledge is only possible with Allah. Knowledge exists, therefore Allah exists. And then says, did I help the Muslim? It's not sound, but it's an argument for Allah. Well, again, God, I mean, yeah, well, both me and Tom have absolutely no power nor knowledge except what's revealed to us and what is given to us and whatever the source of knowledge and whatever the source of power that comes from God, whether he likes to admit it or not, there is a day he's going to see it. So it's too late at that point. I think the point there was to give you an example of a valid argument so you can try to improve for future debates. Oh, it's not about improving about future debates from the person in front of me. It's just saying, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This this one from Ozzie in talks says, actually, this one we got that one elusive elusive viper says, if following Satanism causes a person to live a better life than a Muslim, is Satanism true? Well, as someone who's following Satanism, Satan is going to order you on to moralities to say things about God that is not true, and he's going to order you to do things that are obscene, obscene, that is not acceptable by the society. If the whole society is doing that, then it's a different story. It's not a society that's for God, as we see in nowadays. You got it. Thanks very much for your question. This one coming in from Squid Superhung says, just supporting the modern day debate channel, this one was over before it started. Mohamed, let's see, they say Tommy Jay with the win. You had a fan out there, T-jump. And also this one is just for James sitting over there looking swole. Great work, James. Thanks for your kind words. It's very embarrassing. This one from Anton Gomez says, dear, but thanks for your support of the channel at Squid Superhung. And this one from Anton Gomez saying, dear Mohamed, Salman Rushdie got stabbed by a Muslim in New York. And they said, I'm very sad to hear that. Peace be upon you. I don't know if it's a fellow Muslim or is that true that Salman Rushdie was? I thought I wasn't sure he was stabbed. He was attacked on stage in one of his lectures because of the jihad that was sent against him by, I forgot his name. So do you condone the attack on Salman Rushdie, essentially? Do I do what? Condone, approve. I don't speak on behalf of every Muslim around the world. Yeah, do you approve? Personally, yes, it's not my action. So I'm not responsible for it. Why would I have to condone it? Do you condone it? Do you condone the attacks in Iraq? I think you as an American, do you condone all the people that died in Iraq? Oh, no, I don't condone any of them. I think that it was a bad war. So I think that that interpretation was bad. So could you say that that interpretation of that guy is bad? I'm not responsible for what happened to that guy because of his own actions. So that's not the question. The question is, do you think what he did was the correct interpretation of Islam and therefore the guy who stabbed Salman Rushdie? Again, and that's his interpretation. It's not for me to judge whether it was true or not. If it was untrue, then he's going to take the consequences of it being bad. And if it was something that he did for the greater good, then he's going to take the benefit of that is not for me to judge. But is that something that we should be doing? That's not a that's not the way we should be handling things. This one from Bitter Truth says, Koran says, Sunset in murky water. Hadiths confirmed prostrate underneath of God. Ask permission to rise Muhammad through this. This one's hard for me. They said, Koran says, Sunset in murky water. It's the word H-A-D-I-S. I don't know if they mean to say Hadiths or is that a word in I've never heard of this. Say it again. Sorry. It's H-A-D-I-S. Hadiths. No, I think he's talking about Hadith again. OK, they say, Koran says, Sunset in murky water in the Hadiths confirmed prostrate underneath of God. Ask permission to rise Muhammad prove that this happened. I think maybe that's what they're saying is they're saying the Koran says the Sunset in murky water. OK, so first of all, James, your Arabic is improving. Thank you very much. Arabic you're learning through these things. But I have no words for that man. I don't understand this. Koran is saying that the visual image of the Sun sent into setting the water the way it looked. And we got to describe this Muhammad that doesn't describe the Koran any less than what that person is trying to show. This one from Sameer Farzain says premise nothing comes from nothing until T jump can prove that it can. Then someone created something. Therefore, our God, burden of disproof is now on you, T jump. No one thinks that something came from nothing. We just think there is a necessary thing, which is a quantum field that exists outside of space and time. So you don't need to go for that. That's a very weird way of calling God gone. But sure, if that's how you explain it, no consciousness of no mind. So no, it's not. It's necessary, so yeah, it's necessary, but doesn't have consciousness. Right. It doesn't have human consciousness. Doesn't have any consciousness. I can't tell that. How do you know that? Because that's the model. Quantum fields don't have consciousness. They're quantum fields. So you literally describe God in a lot of words, but go ahead. No, they don't have consciousness. No, someone created something. Well, that's what people are calling God, I guess. And it is infinite. Is it infinite in your understanding and doesn't have a mind? OK, and it's created what's around you, correct? Yes, and doesn't have a mind. So it's and it's creating everything in random. Is that true? Or how is it? Quantum fluctuations, no mind, no mind. So but no purpose either. Right. OK, so so maybe an atheist and I have no purpose. Right, because there is no evidence of objective purpose. OK, so everything around you has a purpose, like my glasses that you're wearing, the reason that humans can make for you. OK, so the trees that are outside is not for a purpose. It's just their random rights for evolution. OK, so for evolution has no purpose. It's not trying to get to an endpoint. Whatever that right, it's just it's just right. The evolution is not an endpoint. Evolution does not have the endpoint to the fact that me and you are speaking right now. Right, so there's no purpose to no goal, no purpose, no goal, no purpose. What a shitty way to live. Sorry. This one coming in from do appreciate your question. Bitter truth says Aisha Mohammed had Aisha and Mohammed had intercourse. When I was nine, I hadn't reached puberty. And then says Sahi al-Bukhari, book Mohammed. Please explain why your prophet had intercourse with Aisha at nine years old. I don't know. It's not something that I I can I say this nicely to you? So Mohammed, whatever he did with his wife, that's not something that I like to read about or look into. People say a lot of things. Some say that he had sexual relationships with Aisha when she was 18. And some people said that she was nine. Some people said that 16. History wrote whatever history wrote. But the truth is truth. That's something I'm going to find out later. Mohammed did a lot of benefits for the world. And Aisha did a lot of benefits for the world. You and your question will never compare to. So that's why I will not discredit prophet Mohammed based on your dumb question. Also, one, remind you, folks, I had not mentioned it earlier. I try to mention earlier in the stream, if you enjoy debates and you have a friend who enjoys debates, highly encourage you. Click share and share this debate with them as we want to give everybody a fair shot, whether they be Muslim, Christian, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons. We've never I don't think we've ever had a Mormon on. No joke. Isn't that crazy? But we would love to have if you are a Mormon, if you'd like to come on. The door is completely open to you as well as Jehovah's Witnesses. You name it, we are striving to provide a neutral platform. And so help us expand on YouTube by sharing this debate with others. And this next question coming in from do appreciate it. Bitter truth says, Mohammed, there is evolution, which you Muslims reject. But can you show us your Islamic creation model? How were we humans and the universe created? As I said, that evolution is something that is acceptable in mainstream Islam. There are some schools that differ against it, but there is schools that do teach that evolution is something that occurred and Adam and Eve came after evolution. So actually, actually with evolution, it kind of proves that Adam and Eve didn't. I mean, their children didn't go through any incest because the species was already existing, but they didn't have that intelligence and the spark that Adam and Eve would have so that their children would have a sexual relationship with something that looked like a human, but it didn't have that spark of humanity inside it yet. You got it. And thank you very much for this question coming in from Franco. True. Hello says, if Islam is true, why did my dad leave me? OK, I think that's a troll. Well, actually, it's just because your dad wasn't accepting to the fact or submitted to the fact that he needed to be a good father. This one coming in from bitter truth says Quran or in the Quran, we humans were created from a blood clot in some verses, repeatedly saying also telling us before humans, Jinn or demons lived on the earth. Can you prove this, Muhammad? Demons are causing the emotions now. People cannot explain very easily. You got it. And this one coming in from do appreciate your question. Samir Farzain says, T jump strategy is to diminish anything you say. I showed him a scientific article titled quote, scientists baffled by X. He replied, it's absolutely normal. Tom, I think he's skeptical of your approach. Science are baffled by a lot of things. That's not evidence of anything. Scientific articles are not evidence. They're just opinion pieces like the kind of article he's talking about, like a scientific America article. It's not like an academic published papers. Tom, I have a question. What do you think about Islamic scientists? Well, scientists are anybody who does like novel testable predictions. I don't know of any. There's like Islam takes up two percent of Nobel prizes, so they exist. That's not a way. So Nobel prizes is how you dictate if someone's a good scientist. No, well, yes, no prizes is definitely one of the ways to establish whether sometimes a good scientist, maybe the process that has nothing to do with people in the Middle East, and I'm sorry, Nobel prizes didn't exist when the big scientists of the Islamic nations were around. Like who are you? Yeah, they're definitely Islamic scientists. Most of the stars are named by Islamic scientists from back then. I thought you meant modern day. Yes, why would those scientists believe in God or Quran if they're so critical? But of course, you're smarter than them. Because lots of people used to believe in God and we have new evidence that indicates not God that doesn't exist before. But the evidence didn't about God existing now. Can you science science as hindsight? So so you need to you need it to be in front of you to test it. God has not revealed to himself in way for him to be tested. So people always believe them. Sorry, I'm on it. People used to think God was required to do things like natural selection, like the diversity of species. And when we discover that, no, you don't need God for that. There are natural processes and now pretty much everything we think natural processes is a better explanation for. And that's what the evidence indicates. But that's not what Muslim scientists preached. Muslim scientists said that Muslim Muslim science is going off the fact that we're reverse engineering truth in front of us so we can understand why things happen. So I mean, how how things happen. Science is a how question to us. It's not a lot in Islam. Because God said that he created the land in the earth in truth. So how do we deduce this truth is from the science? Truth is a how question, not a why question. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So truth is we're understanding the how through science. The why is God. That's the difference. So we do know why there is a why. There's no why. There is a why. No, no, why. That's the difference between you and me. There is a why. My beliefs are based on evidence. Yours are based on making stuff up. No, no, no, my my my evidence is based on how my life is progress. It's not making things up. OK, that's literally making stuff up. This is not making things up with super hunk says, could each person try their best to steal man the other person's position? His argument is that doing actions which improve your life are indicative of the truth of whatever methodology you're using. It's just false. His his his argument is that he's correct because TJ T jump said it. This one coming in from Franco Trujillo says, does Allah submit to the laws of logic? Thanks for doing your thing, James. Thank you, Franco. Thank you, James. Yeah, I also want to thank you. But no, God is not subjected to the natural law that he created. He's above that natural law, whatever. But yes, God does adhere to things that he did write on himself that he would not break, and that's why he's a God. This one from Samir Farzain says, Tom, jump. What percentage of your body transactions do you control? For example, cells dividing your heart beating near on zeroing antibodies being produced, not even one billionth of a percent. It's zero. Dot, dot, dot. That's all they say. OK. I think it's maybe trying to kind of like implicitly argue for a designer that designed your body, but that's my best guess. I don't know. You know, the fact that you don't control things doesn't mean somebody else does. This one from Edward J. Peter says, Muhammad, what is the punishment for apostasy? There is two schools on thought of that. The there is the way that Sunniism teaches that those people are are put to death. But the Quran is saying that a person who turns away from religion, there is no compulsion or religion, you let them live their life because God's going to deal with them. As you can see, there's a lot of apostates in this world and they're dealt with accordingly, not with death. I mean, just do what you're doing. You got it. This one coming in from do appreciate your question. Samir Farzane strikes again says, Tom jump says, quantum's a theory. Don't use theory as truth. Theory in science means a well confirmed hypothesis. Theory is truth. The theory of gravity, the germ theory of disease, the atomic theory of matter. Theory is truth. Theory in science doesn't mean just it's an option. It means it's something that's been confirmed. Theory is truth. This one from Bitter Truth says, show us where the Quran or Hadiths. Talk about evolution, Muhammad. Travel in the land and observe how God began creation and he will produce the final image, God is capable of all things. You got it, and thank you. Sorry, yeah, there's more verses, but that's fine. I think that's that's good enough. You you got it. This one coming in from Franco Trujillo says, for T jump, aren't you mad at your mother because your mother held you without your consent? Because according to your logic, holding a baby is immoral. Holding someone without their consent is immoral. It's pretty obvious Muslims just don't understand basic morality. OK, so if I smoke a cigarette, do I need your consent? Do doing something to somebody else without their consent? No, no, no, I'm asking you to do if I smoke a cigarette. No, your body, you you you only need to get consent when infecting somebody else's body. So if I'm smoking a cigarette and you end up with having cancer because of my cigarette, I don't need your consent for that, right? Me affecting you with my own action. Me that's something you would need consent to secondhand smoke is something you need consent. OK, so I need your consent for me to smoke. Got it. Right. If you're doing it in a public place that isn't your property, you did change your perspective because you can't decide what's consensable or not. No, no, if you're in a public space that isn't your property, you need consent to smoke. If you're in your house, that's not somebody else's property. You don't need consent. So if I'm in a public so if I'm in a public spot right next to you, I need your consent to have a cigarette when the law allows it, right? Well, if the law allows you and it's a public space, then we've both consented to the rules of the public space. That's why public space means so if you're in my house, you need my consent. If I'm in your house, no, no, we're in public. Not not your rules, public laws in public means there's already an agreed upon set of rules, so so you I don't need your consent to give you kids. If we're a public, you already have my consent because we're in public together. Oh, so I have your consent to give you cancer in public. Hey, by the way, Islam already covers this issue by saying don't smoke. It's not good for you. Literally irrelevant to the topic. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Get it? Next one. The legend rives says, did you know that religions history is our ancestral tribes passing on the stories of events they saw from about 300,000 years ago? Do you two do historical cross examination? If not, you're slacking. Of what? Historical cross examination requires examining multiple things in history. What am I supposed to cross examine? Mohammed. Well, the thing is, the story of history is something we see all the time. People say history to each and that history is very summarized quickly in the Koran of history of humanity and the history of every civilization that came to work. So we know what to expect. You got it. And then the legend rives. I think what they meant in terms of when you asked, what should I cross examine? Tom, I think they're saying you should cross examine. I think they're saying each of those ancient stories like you should cross examine them. To what? Themselves? Compare them and contrast them. I think they're saying. Yeah, cross exam means. But yeah, they're saying, did you know that religions history is our ancestral tribes passing on the stories of events they saw from about 300,000 years ago? And they're saying, like, are you checking to see that these stories allegedly that are there from 300,000 years ago are? No humans existed 300,000 years ago. First problem humans, the oldest humans could be as 200,000 years. So that's not true. Stories weren't even invented to the 50,000 year range. So it would only be about 50,000 years max for the stories. And yes, and the stories generate from many different time periods like Jesus. That that was 2000 years ago, not 3300,000 years ago. So the stories are generated from all kinds of time. But yes, we're emulating stories from the past. Sure. This one from some year far saying, oh, we got that one. This one from the legend Rives strikes again says, atheists have to prove that no religion in parentheses, moral principles, are just if is justified and that I'm nature. Humans without principles can sustain themselves to the same degree without a moral teacher. Well, you are nature. That's you literally exist of matter, your nature. But I'm a moral realist. I believe there is objective morality. Religion's morality is just dumb. You know, there's godless religions, right? Yes, like Buddhism. Yes. So religion is just a set of laws that you put on yourself so that you lead a healthy life. No. That's what religion literally means. No, no, I know it doesn't that one up. I do want to let me just they sent me a correction and sorry about that legend Rives. They said atheists have to prove that no religion is justified and that in nature, humans without principles can sustain themselves to the same degree without a moral teacher. Well, humans who are atheists have principles that just don't come from religion. That's why secular societies do better in pretty much every respect than religious societies, but you're right that we have to prove that no religious system is justified because if they had evidence, then they would be justified and atheism would be wrong. So just to do that, you just need to put in evidence because we've debunked all the evidence that religions ever presented. You just need to provide evidence that actually worked. You got it. So one second. Sorry, James, can I actually? Yeah, so how did you debunk that everything has submitted to that quantum theory that you were talking about earlier? Like it's it's you remember that? Infinite quantum theory, whatever you said that I said it's God. How are you rejecting the fact that everything's under the dictations of whatever that entity you said? Like how is can something go outside of that quantum field, whatever. Way of you explaining, I'm sorry. Let me let me rephrase that. If if that entity is the thing that created what you're what we're in right now for no purpose, can something go outside of that control? I have no idea what any of that means. There is a fundamental nature of reality and everything that exists is bound to the fundamental nature of reality. It's a quantum field. It's not a God. And you don't you don't need to disprove all religions. There's actually evidence for quantum fields unlike religions. OK, but then I anyways, we can carry on. But I think you have a problem with defining what God is. So how are you looking for God? If you cannot define a non physical mind that created everything else. That's not the definition of God. Yeah, go ahead. Well, how do you define God? God for me is an absolute control. He's in the past. He's in the present. He's something that's infinite. He's he's something that's infinite. He knows what where everything is about to go. He has a database of every object, every element and every thought and everything that's about to come and everything that happened. He's a fair judge. So when someone's working hard, he gets the reward of whatever work hard, whatever work he worked towards, God, at the same time, he's hearing from your own eyes and from your own ears. And he's judging of what you're understanding. And when you're hurting other people, he's the one who's aware of the mind. Do you have a mind? Yes, this is whatever gave you whatever gave you a mind and understand the concept of mind. So he has a mind. OK, did he create everything else other than himself? Yes. Is he non physical? No, he has an aspect of physicality to it. Is he like purely made of matter? Yes. OK, so other than that one, he's a mind who created everything else. So I got two out of the three on them. I don't know why you think he's physical, but OK, we'll grab his physical. Just hey, hey, OK, so there's stars that are very far away that we can't physically see them. Sure. Right. So just because you can't see God, let's just presume that he's so very far away that we can't see him. And then when he does come, you will see. Well, hey, hey, you're so far away. Well, it sounds like Normanism. No, I'm not saying it's Normanism. I'm saying God has a physical body that we cannot see at this point, but he is in the physical realm as well. Because he's really far away. I'm giving you an example, just an apologist example. But go ahead, James, I'm sorry. No worries. Lath says the moon loves the sun because it shares its light. There would be no day without the fullness of night. You may not see it beyond our sight. Beautiful. Franco Trujillo said, Brother Mohammed, where are you at? Turn on the lights. I think that they're referencing your dramatic and impressive lighting. And Samir Farsane says, Muslim doctors, husband and wife, developed first covid vaccine. Take that tea, jump you soy boy. I added the last part. Muslims have invented lots of things that doesn't mean it's true. There are also a lot of Chinese and Hindu scientists and Jews are actually the scientists that make the most progress because they order of all Nobel Prize Jews. Who Jews, right? Jews, they have a quarter of all Nobel Prizes and they make up zero point two from a population from a neighbor. They have religion who understand the concept of submitting to a highest power and the highest power is controlling everything. And this is why they are blessed the way they are when they stay on track. No. Oh, no. So again, as I said, so their way of life doesn't indicate they're right. The fact there's lots of it's not about the right. It's about the reward they're getting for their release and the way of living. Again, religion is a way of life, but they're actually sorry. I mean, we can't be brothers, but yeah, religion is a way of life. This one coming in from do appreciate your question. Samir Farsane strikes again. He's after you, Tom. He says, you believe in Euclid for prime numbers, yet not in God. Who told you the universe is expanding 13, what, one thousand three hundred and fifty years before the Hubble telescope. Mohammed needs his Nobel Prize. Well, he didn't say the universe is expanding. So that's that's false. Well, why are you so cool to say God is the God is the expanding, expanding everything. It was great. Doesn't say the universe is expanding. So it's not expanding everything. It's not say the universe is expanding. OK, so you wanted to say literally the universe is expanding. It's not a book of guidance. You wanted to get like non metaphorical. It's a non metaphor that would be great. Give me some numbers like the Earth. In wisdom is that you guys can all right. This one, oh, by the way, folks, we're at 126 likes, we're only 24 likes away from 150 likes at which point. Tom will remove his shirt. So please do hit like if you want to see that. Well, maybe we'll ask him to. But if you have paid monies, give me monies and I will do it. It does me me. I need monies. James does not need monies. It has a $50,000 gift card from Subway. I need the money. It boosts us in the algorithm. If you do hit that like so it's one way of helping us expand our neutral platform and that the legend says, look up remembering the end of the world on YouTube for the historical cross examination on religion. You guys familiar with this? No, it sounds like a documentary. You got it. And this one coming in from Darth Revan says, I learned how to respect my enemy from Dragon Ball Z. Does that make Dragon Ball Z true, Muhammad? Because it taught me how not to kick a person's head off when I'm mad. OK, so there's any concepts of truth that you find anywhere in the world that someone did deduce from the natural world around them is applicable no matter what Islam teaches you the full package. So not just kicking somebody's head is that if someone does kick your head is on how to react to that, it's better to forgive them. Like, you know how Jesus said, you know, turn the cheek. But in Islam, we turn the cheek and if you hit me again, I'm going to hit you once because at that point it's fair. So the little truth and the things that does help in your life that you see it in a lot of things because the truth does prevail in the world. It's all packaged nicely for you in an amazing 600 page book called The Quran. This one from The Legend Rives says, Homo habilis were the first humans. You are dead wrong, Tom Jump. What? What? They said Homo habilis weren't human, but were the first humans. I don't know. Homo habilis weren't humans. No, that is incorrect. This one coming in from Ben Sourafman. And this is our last standard question for the night. And then I actually have to get to sleep because it's actually unusually late for our debate. But this is for both. They said, if you were able to experience your quote, perfect world and in it, you felt suffering and emptiness, the kind of you can't just turn off, Tom, would that make it imperfect? Yes, I mean, literally part of the perfection is the ability to just have no violations of your consent. And so if your consent is being violated by experience suffering, you can't turn off, that would literally be a violation of your consent and make it non-perfect. Any thoughts, Mohamed? Well, he described heaven except with the internal heaven. To me, I believe that there's going to be a time that this system where the bad things in life and the good things in life are mixed, that's going to be like the good things are going to be put to one side and the bad things are going to be put to the other side. And I'd like to be on the good side. So I'd be experiencing that heaven he was talking about without the pain and emptiness, because that's going to be on the bad side. You got it. And with that, we have hit 150 likes, although some people said they were hitting like for the purpose of Tom keeping his shirt on. So we're kind of at a deadlock. We're kind of we're at a stalemate. I mean, Tom will take half of his shirt off. How about that? But want to say, well, Samir, he's coming after you, Tom, he says, we have created the heavens and surely we're expanding them. Quote, unquote, they're saying that's what you're saying, Tom. They say that's your proof from the oh, wait, they're that's the proof in your car that's the claim that the Quran is making the evidence that the universe expanding or something. Correct. They're saying that that's what the Quran says. Namely, quote, we have created the heavens and surely we're expanding them. They're saying that's your proof from the Quran, T.J. Look it up. Let me see in the Quran, the heavens and the earth are separate. They're separate things. And so the earthly realm of the universe is not what it's talking about when we're talking about the heavens. Secondly, saying things are expanding isn't saying the universe is expanding. It just says things are expanding. No, the word the word heavens, the words heavens actually translate to sky, so God saying the skies is expanding. So it's not the word. Different interpretations or no, that's not it's ambiguity. Semawad, Semawad, which means the sky. The fallacy. All right. OK, so when God said every living creature, every living creature came from water, that's also like, you know, 1400 years ago, that's a very far fetched theory that is very true in our day and age, that everything living which everyone already knew at the time. No, in 1400 years ago, that's not true. Yeah, it is because we were all made of water. But literally, if you push someone, they're made of water. Everything was created from water, not in like. Because we're made of water. Yes, obviously, but everyone already knew that. It's like things predates the carol from water. They're made up of water because we're made of water and we're squishy. Like water is people in Greece concluded we're all made of water. All living things are made of water. We already knew that. God is saying that we came from water. Yes, we're made. Yes. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So because we're squishy, people at the time thought all life was made from water because there's water in all life. But it's a different theory and a different claim. If someone said you came out of water, not made up of water. So the evidence of the theory, how they came to the conclusion that all life came from water is they looked at all things that were living and water in them. So that that's the evidence, not the hypothesis. The evidence is things are all squishy like water is. The hypothesis is all things came from water, all living things came from water. Yes, let's can you send me that study so I can read it, please? The things are squishy, the squishy. I'll send you a squishy study. Not that squishy study. You're telling you're saying things. You're making a claim that the Greeks were saying that everything came or evolved out of water and that's how you're saying that a prophet sitting in the desert that had no idea what the Greeks said said the exact same thing at a different time. And he also came down with all this wisdom that that's helping millions of people. Nothing is original in the Koran. It comes from other sources. He steals it from other sources. Yes. Oh, so he went red and and and talked to all these people that taught him the exact same thing, the truth from from all these other sources. Yeah, it can't be inspired from you. OK, so he knew what the Greeks said when he was in the middle of the desert by himself. Got it. Makes sense. He went to talk to the Greeks common knowledge like when he says there's a divide between the waters, that's something that people could literally see. There's there's no light on the bottom of the ocean, something that people could literally see. People could literally see about people could literally see the bottom of the ocean. They can see when people swim, when you go down, it gets less light. And so what's the bottom? It's dark, basic logic, logic. Let's go kids know this. Oh, right. You're so funny, man. Well, that wasn't meant to be funny, but I'll take it. Because from do appreciate your question. Last minute, snuck it in. F face Jerry says shirt off, please. And Franco Trujillo says if Allah is omniscient, does he know what it's like to marry a nine year old? Can God have knowledge of, well, it's all good, depending on I'll just. Like you answer it. No, I'm saying it's all good. James, like, well, it's a again, it's an insult towards the profit again, because that's where people, you know, if someone does nine good things to the world and he does one bad thing, I'm not saying that profit didn't bad thing, but people always like to look at the negative things that they find. But they see the they forget the positive things that a person found. So in a negative world, you deserve someone like Donald Trump. You got it. And want to say thank you very much, folks, for your questions. Both of our guests are linked in the description. That includes at the podcast. Our podcast is available on Spotify, Apple podcast and every other single app out there for podcasts. And if you're listening to this right now, you can find both T jump and Mohammed's links in the description. If you would like to hear more, you certainly can by clicking on those links right now. Want to say thanks so much for your questions, folks. Thanks so much for your support via all of the likes and shares, all those good things, as well as most importantly, thanks to our guests for being with us tonight. T jump and Mohammed's been a pleasure to have you with us. God bless you, James. I will be back in just a moment, folks. So stick around, as I'm going to let you know about upcoming juicy debates that you don't want to miss, for example, at the bottom right of your screen. Apostate Prophet returns this Friday to debate. Muslim apologist on whether or not Islam is harmful to the world. It's going to be juicy. You don't want to miss it. Hit that subscribe button right now so that you don't miss it, as well as many other future debates that are going to come from this channel, modern day debate. So that stick around and I'll be right back to tell you about more upcoming debates. Ladies and gentlemen, I want to say thanks so much for your support. And again, thank you for your kind words about modern day debate. I can tell you the debaters are the lifeblood of the channel. They deserve all of the credit and you can find their links down below. If you have not heard somehow, if you have not heard of our guests tonight, they have been we really appreciate them coming on modern day debate. Their links are in the description. You can find out more about their views by clicking on those links right now. We really do appreciate them and also want to say, in terms of housekeeping for the channel, we mentioned that this Friday, there's going to be this big juicy debate at the bottom right of your screen. But also we may and this is kind of its contingent. We're still kind of finding out the details on this. We're planning on hosting a 2v2 or basically a panel of four different people. Tomorrow on whether or not it was good that the controversial content creator Andrew Tate was banned. So in particular, he has been banned from Facebook and Instagram. Some people think that's good. Some people think it's bad. We're going to have a debate on whether or not it was good or bad. And Andrew Tate's big time. So like we're talking mega content creator, not just not just a soy boy. He's probably got millions and millions and millions across his platforms that follow him. Also, though, we've got a lot of other juicy debates coming up. So, for example, we are currently waiting on Crocoduck for a possible debate date for his debate with David McQueen, which is going to be amazing. That's going to be on whether or not radiometric dating is reliable. So that would be another juicy one. Also, last Friday's Flat Earth debate fell flat and will be rescheduled to this Saturday. It's going to be tremendous. You don't want to miss it. Kaz has done a fantastic job and figured out what it was last week that caused the glitch. And so we're looking forward to that one. It's going to be juicy. It is going to be fun. If you like those flat earth debates like me, if it's a guilty pleasure of yours, you don't want to miss that one, as well as we are working on more political panels. Those have gotten some good, you could say, good reception. People have enjoyed those. And so we are working on setting up a hopefully a future one on whether or not whites have reason for grievance. So that should be controversial and probably push the boundaries of YouTube. But nonetheless, F face Jerry says, James, what kind of debates do you personally like the most? I love debates on actually no joke. Like probably the ones I actually like the most are kind of the really kooky out there ones like whether or not Bigfoot exists. I find that really interesting, especially when we had Dr. where he's at Washington State. Dr. Jeffrey Meldrum has come on to debate that. That's been a fun. I think his debate with Erica was one of my favorites. That was a blast. And so I really no joke. I'm not exaggerating. Those really are. I do. I enjoy debates on like gun control. That's a topic I think is interesting, like hearing the different studies and kind of like research to kind of argue one way or another. That's another one that I actually enjoy a lot. And then the kind of classic ones that I used to debate myself like, does God exist? That's those are kind of the ones that I intrinsically enjoy the most. And yeah, thanks for asking. I appreciate that. Did I did I kept calling you Jerry? What I meant to say is fuckface Jeffrey. And it's quite the name, not fuckface Jerry. So thanks for being here with us, Jeffrey. We appreciate you being here. And that's quite the juicy name for your account. And want to say Iron Horse. I see you there in the old live chat. I want to say hello. AAR. Glad to have you with us. Donnie H. Happy to have you here. Happy frenzy and perfect one. Happy you're here to freak and Samir Farsane. Glad you're here. Oh, yes. Three. Thanks for dropping in and says Primetime 99 territory. That might be the case. And Edward J. Peter is glad to have you with us. Jeremy Nolan. Glad you're here. And why Tehrani? Thanks for dropping dropping in. And I've got to go. It's getting pretty late here. But I do want to say thank you guys for your support. Seriously, we're at one hundred and sixty seven likes, which is fantastic for a live stream. That's great. And updating the page is actually at one hundred and seventy likes. Now, we could totally easily get to one hundred and seventy five. That's one hundred and three quarters of another hundred. If there are five more people that hit like and Brandon will afford. Thanks for coming by. I see you there in the old live chat as well as Spik's back. Thanks for coming by. I see you there in the live chat. We're glad you're here. We hope you feel welcome, folks, no matter what walk of life you were from, whether you be Christian, atheist, Muslim, you name it. We're grateful you're here. We appreciate you coming by. It's always a fun time. We appreciate it. Thank you. And we hope you feel welcome for real. Modern day debate is a neutral platform where you're striving to provide a neutral platform on YouTube and in the podcast world so that everybody can make their case on a truly level playing field. We don't even have any videos that make any particular case for any particular position other than we do have one video that argues for why it's good to host controversial debates, but I would say that's as far as we go. We don't have any sort of videos that say, Oh, man, we just had this atheist or Muslim guest on and let's show you why they were wrong. We don't do that. No offense to channels that do. But we really want to push for the most extreme neutrality at modern day debate in terms of how we run the channel. And so we don't even do those types of videos. So I want to say thank you guys for your support, though. And again, the debaters make this channel great for real. If it was me debating every night against myself, you punch yourself in the face. That's how bad it would be. So we appreciate the debaters who are linked in the description. And you can definitely learn more about their views. Spick Spacks is thanks, James. My pleasure, Spick Spack and David. I see you there in the live chat as well as Exa Music. Thanks for coming by. We are glad you are here. And then. Master Office, good to see you again. And I want to say thanks, though, folks. We love you. We're excited about the future. And we appreciate all of your support. We are excited about the future. Big things are happening. Things are changing in a positive way as we are continuing to work on improving modern day debate. It's just going to keep getting bigger. So join us while we are small, because this is just the beginning of our story. My dear friends, and we look forward to seeing you at the next one. Have a great rest of your night or day, depending on where you are.