 Aloha. I am your host, Winston Welton. I'm delighted that you're joining us today for this out and about special show where every other week we explore a variety of topics, organizations, events, and the people who fuel them in our city, state, country, and world. As a disclaimer, any of the things that I say are strictly my own opinions and not connected with any organization that I might have been associated with or that I am currently associated with. That said, I am delighted today to have a very special guest, Aurelia Gonzalez, who is a master of science student of natural resources and environmental management at the University of Hawaii. Aurelia is also a member of Protect, our all-awaii watershed and president of Hawaii Streams and Ecosystems. So thank you so much for coming onto the show today. Thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be here. Well, we were just talking before the show and we've met and talked about these issues of the watershed especially and you have some special expertise and knowledge about ecosystem restoration and green infrastructure. That's correct. And we will be talking about that and I think it's in this larger context of the Protect, our all-awaii watershed group that's formed to sort of give some alternatives to the Army Corp plan that's currently being presented as this 100-year flood model. Is that... Yes, yes. So it's a little bit of a back story. There is a proposed project, the Alawai Flood Mitigation Project and that's how I became a part of Protect, our all-awaii watersheds, that working group. So the proposed plan is to have seven or six debris dams up into our upper watershed for the Alawai watershed. So that would be Makiki, Manoa, Palo Lo Streams. And then going towards the Waikiki area, there would be some detention basins. They also want to raise the flood wall for the Alawai canal. And the project has been, really hasn't been, there wasn't properly notified to the community so a lot of people and stakeholders of that area feel pretty discouraged that the Army Corps kind of passed this project and the city had the opportunity to gain some money for this project but the stakeholders weren't properly involved and I believe that the environmental impact statement could have been done quite differently. And so I'm pretty passionate about other softer alternatives and I, as a student of Natural Resources and Environmental Management, we've been taught that there are other solutions out there. But our municipalities aren't really adopting these forward-thinking solutions and we're still adopting outdated concrete infrastructure. And so I'd like to talk a little bit today about green infrastructure and how that provides not only economic, environmental benefits but also economic and cultural benefits to our community. It encapsulates it well and you said that the EIS, the Environmental Impact Statement, is maybe based on some old modeling or some outdated ideas. Yeah and I think that there is a piece also that they want to offset and mitigate for their impacts in this project. And I think they've proposed to remove some smaller weirs but actually if you talk to people who work in these streams, you know, these smaller weirs, they're actually holding back invasive species up, holding them back and so they don't go further into our watershed upstream. What is a weir for the people that don't know that? So a weir is like a small dam. It's a concrete wall and going across a stream. It's a barrier for fish migration and so a lot of people typically want these things removed and it's good to have them removed. But in some cases they actually retain invasive species to certain areas and so you can actually manage for invasive species to that idea. For instance here in Hawaii it's specific that we have gobies that can climb walls. We only have five endemic fish in the state of Hawaii and these are our gobies and they have sucker mouths and then so they naturally... These are freshwater fish, right? Freshwater fish of course. So there are only freshwater fish and they have a specialty to climb up waterfalls and they use the sucker mouth. So here in Hawaii weirs actually, you know, they still allow the passage, small weirs, allow passage of some of these gobies but keep invasive species like tilapia further downstream. So let's engage in this conversation with the community of what is occurring. We don't want the tension. We don't want dams in our stream. We don't really want issues with fish migration and passage. But let's have the full story so we can make proper decisions. And I think what this group was born of was this frustration that this thing was rushed. It was totally rushed. It didn't have properly community input. Seven out of eight neighborhood boards in the affected watershed and I believe it's a 19 square mile watershed or something like that just from the everything that drains into the Alawai watershed basin. So seven out of eight neighborhood boards asked for the Senate to not give matching funds for this after the city. The city council asked for a study and to put a pause on this as well. That's correct. But the mayor and the governor have sort of gone around and they're looking at issuing some cops which are a financing vehicle for this. But essentially there's been so much community pushback that the ocean did a study and said this thing was rushed. It was you know and not certainly don't want to disparage our good colleagues and friends in the city and at the Army Court of Engineers because they were doing the best they could but they probably were relying on some outdated model. And it seems like it's this one got picked off the shelf pretty quickly. And when they got money for Puerto Rico this was I think sandwiched in there. So people didn't want to lose the money. But at some point maybe we got to think what are we really giving up here because this is a half a billion dollar project from the start and really little community input. So protect our Alawai watersheds was formed to counter this. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for tying us back to that group. So. And maybe actually we're going to have a forum on next week. Right. OK. Yes. So this is our forum flyer. These are some speakers that are going to be out at this forum. So this is a grassroots led forum. People working in the watershed who have alternative methods who want to be heard who do science in the Alawai watershed and people like you know our water our water keepers. We have folks coming out to speak about green infrastructure current stream monitoring in the Alawai watershed. So that would be members of like protect our watershed or protect our Alawai watershed. And so that's going to be at the golf club house of the on October 29th. Which is a Tuesday. Which is a Tuesday. Tuesday night. So a week from tomorrow. Yes. At 6 30. Yes. 8 30 it said and the Alawai golf course club house. Yes. Thank you. That's the ballroom upstairs. So on the second floor plenty of parking. Yes. And I'll be at 6 30. So that's in the evening. So folks that are working can come and attend and to listen to what the community has to offer as far as like wanting to be heard and alternatives that the Army Corps should you know adopt. And hopefully they'll be attending there and listening to that as well. And this is really interesting because you're having this spontaneous community of groups coming together and saying hey here's all these really wonderful ideas that maybe you guys haven't considered and these are really important for us. So let's just put it back on the table. We teach our kids and our professionals you know at our universities that these methods don't work in the long term. We you know as far as ecosystem services and the cleaning up and and so yeah I think people are pretty upset that hey we have there's there's science out there that proves otherwise that we can adopt these these other these projects. And I was talking with a friend yesterday and she said the old model maybe when I was younger was about command and control whether it was employees or the government or whatever. So could this is what you do and this is how you do it. But we've moved away from that a lot in our society and how we do education raise children even and it's about collaboration it's about input it's about negotiations and real buy-in because when the community doesn't buy and we're seeing this all over a while who I think where this the city or the state have said this is what we're going to do whether it's Mount Ikea or bellows or yeah that's exactly what's happening. Yeah and then the same for this right right that we are bypassing community engagement and neighborhood needs opportunities are going to be missed if people just pass this plan as is and instead of you know incorporating the things that we've been taught and learn to make forward thinking ideas and solutions I mean this could be a model if Hawaii can do this the right way it would be a great model for collaborative thinking and and you know having protection of property and business but also doing it in the right way engagement and economic services it's a great it's great to hear that and are you feeling hopeful at this point about that that the community is actually going to be listened to and heard and that these ideas will be incorporated in or maybe some of them might or I'm I'm really happy that protect our waters are all Hawaii watershed that group has formed in this forum is going to be well attended and but I you know I hope so I think that I do have you know some optimism and that and that maybe ocean it will bring you know really look into what we say and put some cost do a cost and benefit analysis I mean we really need folks working on the numbers on some of these things and not just ideas but to actually show the benefits long term and so if we can do that I think it would be pretty impactful however you know in my experience people just the process is listening to the community and then once they have that box checked they're still going to go on and do the project so I really hope that that doesn't happen in this case and I feel like there's some loud voices that I think that can turn that but are you are you thinking we're seeing something different here because I've been in Hawaii a while and I don't remember the community rising up like this on so many issues around the island it's everywhere it's all across is saying no we don't we don't want this are you is it are we in a different time period where people are just wanting their voices to be heard or well it's practice I mean you know I think it's a new practice that people are actually doing active listening and and doing social studies around what people are saying and incorporating that into city planning those are new practices and I think that with those practices being properly implemented yeah I think that they can make great examples of how that's done and maybe that's what we're on the fringe of of that the old ways and these new ways and they're you know kind of clashing but yeah this is the first time I have seen a group organized and with so many you know voices to but they said no we don't want this project we have alternatives these are the people that see these alternatives it's time and yeah maybe we're on the fringe of that that battle well I hope so and as I think maybe it's the trickle up theory and that we're getting young people that are finding science-based alternatives that say okay the way that we had it that was the best we knew then but now we have a different way that we that's better you know in the old days that's like you said babies were you said oh put them on their stomach and now no we leave them on their backs and so yeah we went with the best that we had so hopefully our friends that in the city and the state and and the Army Corps of Engineers will step back a little bit and say well maybe we can learn something from from what's percolating up and what incorporating these community concerns so we were going to go for a break here but again I wanted to put up about the this forum that's coming next week on Tuesday October 29th it's going to be a forum for alternatives to the Alaway flood mitigation project holy grass roots 630 to 830 do you know how at the Alaway golf course clubhouse which is at the Alaway golf course exactly there's great parking there it's a two-hour show it's going to be broadcast on Olalo as well on channel I don't know what channel it is but I think you can it says 30 I think that's 30 years but it's going to be on Olalo do you know how many speakers are going to be there approximately I think there's going to be at least 15 15 speakers so each one's going to have about five minutes and there's going to be booths there and lots of time to get that also to get input from the public and say maybe somebody's has has a great idea that we that hasn't been considered yeah there'll be just as many tables as there will be speakers so this is the start of the dialogue that was missing in the community's been feeling missing yes well it's a great pleasure to have young lady who's teaching us how to be collaborative and and work on these issues that are really important here especially when we're looking at spending half a billion dollars and that would be the conservative estimate and really tearing up the the echo the ecology of the land really and and putting in things that may not have been wanted by folks that are living there so we're when we come back we're going to explore some of those and look at what the flood modeling is because we do want people and property protected of course nobody is saying that we don't want to do that we just want to do it the right way with the best practices that we've got today so I am with Aurelia Gonzalez who is a master of science student at UH of natural resources and environmental management she's a member of protect our all Hawaii watershed and president of Hawaii streams and ecosystems we'll be back in a moment with more of the story thanks to our think tech underwriters and grand tours the atherton family foundation Carol Mon Lee and the friends of think tech the center for microbial oceanography research and education collateral analytics the cook foundation Dwayne Karisu the Hawaii council of associations of apartment owners Hawaii energy the Hawaii energy policy forum wine electric company integrated security technologies Galen Ho of BAE systems Kamehameha schools MW group limited the Schuyler family foundation the Sydney Stern Memorial Trust Volo foundation Eureka J. Sugimura thanks so much to you all hello how we are back and we're live I'm Winston Welton this is out and about on the think tech live streaming network series and today we are talking with Aurelia Gonzalez who is a master of science student at the University of Hawaii studying natural resources and environmental management she's a member of protect our all Hawaii watersheds and president of Hawaii streams and ecosystems and it's delighted I'm delighted to have you back here thank you and so we are talking about that next week for the folks that are listening at home on Tuesday October 29th from 6 30 to 8 30 we're going to have a forum presented by protector all our watersheds with a whole bunch of other groups coming in about you said 15 or 20 groups and they're going to all speak for pretty strict amount of time there's going to be a lot of booze available so people are going to be able to come in and give their two cents we're going to have an alternative and have informal it's just chat while with folks to come and share their ideas to hear ideas to spark some things and maybe this will bleed back up into the powers that be and we're just going to start a real dialogue here that results in really well thought out plan that protects people property and maybe restore some ecosystems yes that's correct so just to give people at home an idea of what we're looking at if we could look at the first slide here this is what we're looking at so this is from the final EIS which was produced environmental impact statement by the Army Corps of Engineers and so if you look at the the one on the left there that's the 10 year flood model showing well what's supposed to happen every 10 years now if you live in Hawaii in amount of time you know that that's never happened so the but let's just give it a go and say on the right hand side is the 100 year flood model and they say it's not and if it's a when okay we I can go with that we do get rain bombs whether it's crazy now but Ilani school states that a lack of scientific integrity should be rejected and it's clear that the scientific analysis modeling and methodology are flawed and cannot be relied upon that is in this study here so when Ilani school pretty smart people there they are obviously in an impacted zone as are the seven out of eight neighborhood boards and said don't fund this plan it's it's it's we need more time more community input more study so that's the less what the Army is trying to the Army Corps trying to protect it against so you know the protection idea great idea we want to protect people of property but let's look at the next slide there and we'll say because this is a little bit closer look at this and so this you see there all the white key is protected here right so this is with the wall built now where Ilani is another where Ilani the golf course all the way back to the freeway it looks like up on dole looks like where market city is and then across the university there too lots of flooding there back in Manoa in polo in yeah the athletes department look underwater underwater even houses I'm sorry not kakako all the way over to McKinley high school you've got a lot of neighborhoods are underwater with this plan built so you can see why people are saying wait a minute okay so we protect the economic engine of Hawaii and sacrificing everything else it's not a well thought out plan that doesn't protect everyone we want some I guess fairness here you know and spread this around to make sure that we're getting the right thing in there so at the next one maybe is a closer up of what we're looking at as well with the debris dam so on the left you have what it looks like and on the right you have what it would look like so sort of just wholesale right and most people are familiar with these debris dams because we are we have some already but they're overgrown and they're not maintained so the debris dams that we currently have they already pose issues with our watershed and that could be because they're un-maintained they're just in my opinion a lost cause they're supposed to retain down trees and water that are coming from the mountains to not block the stream system and you know it's a maintenance issue when it comes to that so why propose six new ones six more of them you know who's going to maintain these if we already have some that are being maintained in the community has issues with them but people are saying okay but we've got to protect our keiki and the property and the Manoa flood right where it went through the university was this like one of these dams that just got locked up that was actually a maintenance issue and it was on city and county for you know and it got blocked up because the area was not being properly maintained and so a lot of people say oh with these debris dams are supposed to you know protect from another Manoa flood happening but it's really a maintenance issue these you know we don't have the workforce and the money to maintain the current infrastructure and now we're adding on to that infrastructure requirements yes okay and it's it didn't work then so why more more the same okay and then the last one we have here is an example of the Hokulani elementary school they didn't even know about this project as again a key stakeholder they're downstream that is one of the detention basins that is planned there from the EIS there so and the neighborhoods on the bottom on the other side of that wall so that they were not informed and communicated with and do you want that kind of amount of water right behind you I don't know I mean it's scary and if a levy breaks a levy breaks or what happens so we've got some other other options that that you might be proposing here and one of these is green infrastructure what is green infrastructure yeah so green infrastructure is man-made designs they really it encompass a lot of different ideas so this could be anywhere from planting trees to mulching areas having just more green space but it could also be like large underground retention areas storage tanks things that sit against a building that are you know ten stories high that would store water and slowly percolate that water out so it's a way of controlling the sheer volume and energy of stormwater that is mainly the issue is that that with our current infrastructure we have concreted streets we have concrete neighborhoods and we have concrete canals and this doesn't allow water to naturally percolate and infiltrate into the aquifer and so what happens is you have a surge of stormwater that causes flooding it's a health issue you have concentrated forms of pollution so green infrastructure would retain restore possibly filter that water so it's to a manageable degree so and in I believe in full force that we could we could protect property and we could protect lives with implementing these solutions and in the cities behind but we're on a track possibly to get us there with our new stormwater management fee but we have to direct the people making decisions to make the proper decisions currently I think people want to use our future stormwater management fee to maintain the infrastructure that we currently have like I mentioned we have a maintenance issue so but ideally stormwater utilities fees are supposed to promote forward-thinking solutions like green infrastructure that that promote environmental social and cultural benefits for all and it's not just another form of getting some money to do something that we're already supposed to do it's it's a form of of having a new bowl of money to do do forward-thinking projects to elevate our cities into sustainable management which we were required and we have so many you know goals to hit that we publicize and that's what I really feel like the stormwater fee should be used for is helping us reach these goals not to maintain things that we should and so you're talking about things like the Clean Water Act or other considerations by the EPA or our own health department yes so mainly by EPA and the Department of Health and so we have compliance with our current our system which is we call an MS force system it's a is that rainwater and sewage are separate systems and that rainwater goes directly to the ocean so it hits our streets gathers pollution trash and then goes straight to the stream and then the stream goes to the ocean which causes reef issues browning events things like that and so we have the obligation to make sure that these waters are are not polluted before they go out to the stream and we don't have a really good practice of doing that is it is possible to integrate maybe some of these ideas like a detention basin that's not being used most of the time along with some of these green practices yeah so the the detention basin that you showed in a park is actually although they would have some stakeholders that are pretty upset it is a it is a form of green infrastructure it's a way of retaining water and allowing that water to slowly percolate it's an it's an idea so it could be a pilot idea maybe that's not something that we want to go with but maybe we're okay with underground storage and then we want to talk about okay well where's the water table where's you know you know where can we do underground storage so yeah okay and there's gonna be a lot of ideas that are presented at this forum yes which you're part of the group protect our all away watersheds yes I will be speaking if you guys would like to learn more please I'll be there you will be speaking in that is next Tuesday October 29th at the all away golf course clubhouse and on the second floor it's going to be at 6 30 at night where you're going to be speaking with about 15 other groups just sparking the mind and getting some some juices flowing there's going to be kids it's going to be a fun event it's going to be a friendly event we're just going to be sharing with each other it's not a one-way thing it's a it's a learning on both ways so someone may come up to you and say have you thought about this that or the other so your brain is going to be sparking that day too right and a lot of people say that green infrastructure doesn't protect you against a hundred year flood and of course a rain barrel something that you have at your house you know it's going to overflow in a large storm and of course your you know your rain garden that you know your nonprofit and you helps design in your neighborhood it's not going to protect against a hundred year flood but if we which we will we will be forced to to adopt some of these on our private property we're going to be taxed by the amount of impermeable impermeable surface that we have on our property and so more people are going to start to think about this and I think that with that in large magnitude we can get water off of the streets and to be a flooding issue and more sustainable and green as we go along and even with the plan that's presented now it's not going to we saw those areas that would still be flooded under the Army Corps plan so it's time to incorporate some of these other ideas and see if we can't reduce that impact as well and get caught up to where we are in 2020 almost with the best practices that we've got out there and like you said maybe we'll be the model for the rest of the country and incorporate this here and share it with the rest of the country. I would encourage all of my viewers and does it want to hear our Elia speak to come out next week October 29th at 6.30 at the Alawai golf course for a forum for alternatives to the Alawai flood mitigation project. This is a great opportunity for community involvement it's paving the way forward so that we can show it's the kind of society that we want to live in where people are engaged and engaging and I appreciate you stepping up to the plate and unfortunately we are out of time our time is always very short. I love talking about the issue and would be happy to answer anybody's questions. I encourage everyone to come out. Okay and they can do that there or maybe you'll come back on and we'll this she's not going anywhere we've got years on this so it's been a great pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you. It has been my pleasure especially to be talking with our Elia Gonzalez who's a master of science student of natural science. She's a member protector all of our watersheds and president of Hawaii streams and ecosystems so we look forward to seeing a lot more here her on the show. I'm Winston Welch this is me signing out of Out and About on the ThinkTech Live Streaming Network series and a big shout out and thanks to our broadcast engineer floor manager and all around great guy Eric Kalander who puts it all together for us today and all the other good folks Haley and Robert and I'll see you every other Monday at 3 for more of Out and About. Aloha everyone.