 minutes. I'm going to open the meeting 632. I'd like to look at the agenda that was distributed. Thank you, Brent. I'd like to add some items and then I'll take comments from other people who also want to add items. Under 3.5, we're going after the minutes, we need to approve Paco's pay for his work he's done the past month. And then after Paco's update, we make it 4.5 would be capital-far mutual aid system. We want to talk about helping them out with their legal fees to get their organization all straight with the Secretary of State. And that's all I have to add. Application. Yes, application for the earmark with Sanders and Leahy. I thought we'd talk about that after Paco's update. 4.4 is Paco's update. 4.1 would be the application. 4.2 would be capital-far mutual aid legal fees. I'll do that better, Brent, householder, so it's less confusing for you next time. I'll start using those points. Yeah, it's fine with me. Okay. Anyone else would like to add, modify the agenda in any way? I would be amended as suggested by Councilor. Well, I'm going to say without objections it's amended. All right. Okay. Any public comment? Any public comment? Okay. Minutes April 22nd. We're sent out by Brent householder. Entertain a motion to approve the minutes. So we'll move. I'll second then. So that was Doug Hoyt that made the motion. Yeah. Okay. I'm just making sure I was looking down so I didn't see who spoke. And Sally who seconded. Discussion about the minutes. Sally seconded, but I know also. I'm sorry, Kim. I'll second them. I thought Sally had. No, she did. I said any other further comments. Oh, okay. All right. All in favor, we're proving the minutes as received. Say aye. Aye. Wave your hand if you'd like. Any opposition? Great. I want you to know, Brent actually did like five pages of minutes and I trimmed it down and I'm really encouraging him and myself, all of us to realize that minutes are about what we do, not about who said what. And I want to keep moving us in that direction. So they're really about what they should be about. You follow a rubber's rule of order. They're about motions and go in that direction. So people really want the nitty gritty. They have to attend. We'll give them motivation. I have one piece of business I just want to mention. You have a piece of business that you'd like to assert and where would that be? Oh, it's going to take three minutes. We'll put it under other business. Well, it involves a check of almost $6,000. I already put Paco's pay in there. No, this is separate check. Okay. $6,000? $5,800. Okay. We'll put it right after Paco's. How's that? Okay. I do apologize. I realize I did not send out his invoice. Paco had sent the invoice to Kim and Kim had forwarded to me. I did print it out, but that didn't help any of you. What it was, unfortunately, Chris didn't get the payment done for Paco's previous month service that was $1,250. And then this month's service was $1,750. We owe him a total of $3,000. The invoice that we need approval of today is $1,750. The other one had been improved at a previous meeting. I entertained a motion to pay Paco. I'll so move. All second. Any discussion? All in favor say aye or raise your hand. Aye. Any opposition? Similarly, raise your hand, say nay. Motion passed. Paco's going to get paid. Good. I don't see him. He thought he was going to make it tonight, but we'll just skip right directly to Kim's addition of the $5,800. What's that about, Kim? Donna, it's a payment by the City of Montpelier, which I think is our last payment, $5,875. It's made out to CBPSA and myself. And you should call Kristen and straighten that out, so you came to my home address. My Wi-Fi is a little unstable tonight. I must have a lot of neighbors on. I don't know. Could you, you got something from the City of Montpelier, but I didn't hear the rest. $5,875, which I think is its last obligation this fiscal year. And it was made out to the authority and to me. I will endorse it and return to the police department for Bev Hill, but I think you should talk to Kristen and make sure that it gets sent to the correct address. Yes. We have a lot of address changes, but thank you. Chris is out this week, but she'll be back in by the interface with her. But I will let her know, but please just endorse it and it can get deposited. You can let it off at the police station. I'll do that. Okay. This might be a good time to let everybody know that we now have a post office box. That's official post office box, 634 Montpelier, Vermont. 05601 is a zip. So whoever is chair, we've got at least a mailbox. And I'll be changing the bank and Vermont League of Cities and Towns. I think those are the two primary and some other places that we have some expenditure relationship with. But we also have a phone number. Thanks to Stephen Whitaker's suggestion, I went on and found it. It was easy to do a Google voice mail box. And so we have a number. It's 802-828-7482. It'll be posted on the website. Brent has started that. We're still working together. Some things need to be removed. I have put a call into eternity web to try to get a meeting from a couple of questions that Brent came into. But that's looking much better. People, you probably still owe Brent your bios. Now, he did some, I would say creative writing about bios. And you may want to read them, go online and read them and see if you want to leave what's there or make any changes or corrections. But it'd be really helpful if you could get that into Brent by the end of next week. Do it over the weekend. Think, have it done by Monday. How does this phone number work? Does anybody answer it? You get a voice mail. So you leave a message. It goes directly to whatever phone you put in, which is mine right now. My number is behind the scene. So you can change it at any time and forward it to any phone number you want. Okay. There's just a way to have a constant number instead of changing it by people moving in and out of offices. Good idea. Paco's here. Oh, Paco, we'll come back to you. We did pass your pay. You're finally going to get some green stuff from us. Sorry about the confusion of your previous check. That's okay. Can you hear me all right? Yeah. Jim has a question before you start, Paco. Jim? On the bios, I for some reason interpreted that as the bio was one document and our individual plans were another. But then I started thinking that maybe I had that wrong. Do you want our individual goals, I should say, as part of the bio or is that a separate entity? Well, the goals, we were hoping that we're going to have time to talk a bit about, so I wasn't really so much looking as a document. I did send as an attachment with one of the last emails I did as secretary that sort of asked you for a few brief facts about your background. Share why you want to serve on the CBPSA board, what benefits you think the Public Safety Authority has, and I've asked for 125 words or less. Okay. I'll resend that out. It's a good reminder. That's fine. I just for some reason was thinking it was true stuff. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Paco, did you come prepared to do a bit of an update? I did and I will. I have to apologize. My internet connection has been terrible ever since this afternoon, and so I've been juggling trying to figure something out. Anyway, I'm sorry for the delay. Yeah, mine's wobbly too, so. Yeah. So I believe you're looking for an update on Televates, the project, right? Yes. It might be just two sentences. Well, it's going to be short because Rick at the last meeting gave a very comprehensive overview, and the only thing I have to report this evening is that of the electronic surveys we've sent out, 15 have been returned. I don't know which departments or which individuals that includes, but regardless, 15 of them have been returned. I know Televate has been working with Joe and producing some updated propagation studies. He's also produced some maps for Joe that shows the status quo, or I mean the status of propagations within the existing system. That is not, I don't believe ready to be handed out at this point, but perhaps the biggest issue is the upcoming site visit. Dom Curry is arriving Monday. I guess his plane gets into Burlington in the afternoon. So we do not have anything planned as yet for Monday, but we are hoping to try to arrange some meeting with the hospital staff. I know Joe sent out an email to a variety of people. Prior to today, I was somewhat dealing with their director of security, Mike Wolf, in terms of providing, hopefully providing an introduction, and I did of him to Televate, but that didn't materialize. So I'm not hearing back from anybody on Joe's email this morning. I reached out to Tom Galanca this afternoon, kind of rekindled our old relationship, but also he was kind of chuckling, but we're still at it. So he was going to reach out to the CEO Ann Noonan, I guess, to try to find out who on her staff we can talk to at the hospital, and hopefully use his leverage to get a meeting with Dom and the hospital staff Monday afternoon. Tuesday will be spent on tower site visits, and Wednesday will be a tour of the dispatch centers, and Dom will be leaving some. Uh, did he cut out on everybody or just me? He cut out on me. Okay, so Don plans to meet with dispatchers on Wednesday morning, and one is Kerry, who's replacing Fred, as well as one dispatcher and Barry. Joe's got a question. Thank you, Joe. So on Wednesday, we planned to meet in Montpelier. Dom wanted to tour that facility, and on just after that, we'll go over to Barry and tour that facility. He wanted just to chat with the dispatchers there. I let Chief Pete know, and Deputy Chief Eastman and Chief Balmadier are there aware of it, so we are working through that right now. I was hoping to do a just an end all meeting with Dom and Paco just to make sure all his questions were answered before he left. That's great, Joe. Really, I appreciate how proactive you've been and that you're going to do the towers tour with him. I went up to one tower today, and I'm going to have to get a UTV to get up there. Oh, wow. But the other tower, we should be able no problem, and then Woodbury should not be a problem either. Good, good. Well, I know I'm curious, so take pictures, you know, and then I'm sure he'll be taking some too and pointing out elements to us. The one thing I would like for the board to be involved in is we thought we take him to dinner on Tuesday night as a board, and anyone who wants to can join us. Sarducci has put up their tent as well as indoor space eating so that people could be comfortable. If you want to attend, I just need to know. It'd be helpful to know Tuesday noon, by Tuesday noon, if you were going to go, certainly you'd let me know sooner. People are just thinking about it next Tuesday. What, seven o'clock? What's a good time? How many would be interested in having dinner with Don? 630. 630? Is that all right for people traveling further? Okay. Nobody besides Kim, Dan, is your hand up? Okay. Sure, I can probably go. All right, you can confirm it later. I just like to get an idea. Doug Hoyt, Doug Brent, Doug Brent, you're more than, I mean, you're invited too, if you'd like to join the board with his dinner with him. I'll let you know for sure, Donna. Okay, okay. Donna, I'd like to attend that myself, but I'm not sure I have Tuesday night free, so I'll have to check. Okay, okay, check. All righty. Donna, I certainly apologize for that. I really don't know what's happening with my system or the internet here. It's really bizarre. I haven't had this problem before. If I could just finish, I was just about ready to wrap up. By all means. Don will be leaving Wednesday afternoon, but the important point is we are coming to a period of time with this project where all of the information gathering will be completed, I think, by the end of next week, unless there are any clarifying issues that Tel Aviv will need. In talking to Rick, he's going to begin the drafting of his report after next week. So my message is that the whole project is moving right along. And I guess I'll editorialize a little bit. I think they've been doing a very comprehensive job. And I will also add that in their viewing of the dispatch centers on Wednesday morning, they intend to speak to other some additional dispatchers as well. I know Kerry McCool in Montpelier has had some communication with Dom, and he's already he's visiting Montpelier, I think, starting at 9 a.m. Wednesday morning. So that's pretty much it for my update on the Tel Aviv project. I didn't know if Joe wanted to add anything with regards to the site, tower site visits, or maybe he has when I went dark. When you were gone, he filled us in. Great. Good. Thanks, Joe. You always got my back. All right, buddy. No problem. I have one question for Aco. Have you told Caroline Earl that the dispatchers, her clients, will be spoken to by the evaluator? I think she should be included if she wants to be. The answer to that is sort of yes. Caroline, after the last meeting, had reached out to myself saying I hope that she had hoped the dispatchers were going to be interviewed, and that she could help and make sure that happened. And I passed her along to Rick Burke, and Rick and her had some exchange with emails. And beyond that, I don't know where it really rested. I know when talking to Rick, I made it perfectly clear that dispatchers' involvement was also a responsibility of the agency heads, and that they would have to be included. But I guess, Kim, we tried to make that connection with Caroline and dispatchers and the evaluator. Yeah, I think her focus was definitely the dispatchers, and I'm sure they'll let her know if indeed she wants to attend. But I can send her a short email just from me to her and ask to make sure. Sure. Sure. Can the dispatchers be interviewed out of the presence of the agency heads? Yeah. I would hope so. Can I ask a question here? Yes, Stephen. Yeah. Paco, did you all elevate me with Chief Romai of the Capitol Police? Yes. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Anything else on that update? Any questions for Paco? Okay. Now, I'd like to go into the application. As you all got an email about it last minute, we got an opportunity to submit an application for what they call a congressional, dedicated funds and earmark. And both Senator Leahy and Sanders are giving us an opportunity. Sanders is due this Saturday on the 15th. Leahy is due on the 21st next Friday. And I've been really thrilled that Paco's been willing to jump right in and a lot of other people we've contacted, including Tel Aviv to help us do this. The idea is that we know right at the gate that Joe and Doug Brent have put so much time in working on proposals that they've taken the simulcast, the consoles for Barry Montpelier, and what I call the built-in structure for Barry and Montpelier is that connection and made a huge proposal. And I think it's also an RFP, and I'll have them talk about it, but that's sort of our base. And then on that, we talked to Tel Aviv to add what they see as other equipment and staffing that we need a project manager, and we also need to deal with governance. And we can look for some money through that to really use our expertise and our relationship with Tel Aviv to help us with governance, cost allocation, and put in a place within the earmark application that we would actually use them to assist us to fine-tune any RFPs we would send out and be the project manager over any implementation of the money we received. That especially not having any staff would be really important within the application that we can show expertise of managing the money, and they would provide us with that. So I mean, that's sort of the gist. Paco, you want to add more to what we're looking at for the application. And then I would love for Doug Brent and Joe to talk about their proposals. The only thing that I would want to add is that in large part, this discussion around applying for these earmarks should be about how best to move forward. You know, the cities and Capitol Fire have done a lot of work on their communication needs. They have some ideas around moving forward, but it's really got to be a collective decision as to who best is positioned to apply for these monies. And if it's CVPSA, then CVPSA needs the support of its member communities to move forward. And I know Donna has been working on that. And I just don't want to assume that everybody is on board without having a discussion about it and hearing it from the members' mouths. Yes. Thank you. The key to this is that we really want a group decision, group participation. The idea is to move forward to get the equipment our first responders need and to also make whatever it looks like public safety authority, some regional entity that can work for people. And that's why, to me, it's important that we have a governance piece within this application and that we do our due diligence to get a governance membership, cost allocation that people, people, all the entities feel comfortable with and can make it work. I'm not married as to keeping Central Vermont Public Safety Authority as it is at all. And so I really, not only this application, but all the steps that would make the application really be successful implementation would only come from a collective unit that can work together. So I did talk to Bill Frazier. He said, great, go ahead. We would take your money. We will use any equipment that you get from this. We will work with you. He had no hesitation. Unfortunately, Steve McKenzie was in a lot of meetings. I left messages, but we haven't connected. And I've sent Paul an email for Capital Fire. And I haven't heard back from him. But meanwhile, everybody here can share their opinions and whether they would support us in approaching their, the head of their entity that they're here today representing. So Doug Brent, Joe, one of you want to talk? I'll let the chief go and I will jump in as needed. How's that? Can you hear me now, Donna? Yes. Hey, great, great. First of all, I want to correct something you said we did not put together a proposal. We gathered up all the projects that are reportedly going on in the area to include a Barry Montpelier type of radio project to help our inner city areas. And the talk out of from buildings, we put together the, added the dispatch consoles that Montpelier wanted to put in and Barry has tried to jump on that same bandwagon to get some economies of scale for purchasing. And then also added in after meeting with Paul Saruti, the project that the mutual aid system wanted to do. So there's like three projects, major projects going on, all having to do with radio communications, all having to do with fire and EMS for this area. And we just kind of put those all together to try and figure out what we had. And if we had some buying power because of that, there has been no proposal put together. There has been no bids put out, anything like that. Just trying to get an idea what was going on. We, like you, didn't know anything about these things coming along from Sanders or from Leahy's office. So our completion time, if you will, to try and get this stuff together was kind of timed out with when we got what we got from the Televate report because hopefully that'll either shed some light on different things that we need to look for. Hopefully maybe it would even validate what we thought we should be doing. So there's a number of different things that we've looked at there. And that's kind of what we've been working on. As you know, and you spoke of earlier, Joe has been working tirelessly with trying to make sure that Televate gets the information that they need. As we all know, reports are made up like garbage in, garbage out. So it's important to make sure to get good information to them. So those guys that are the professionals can evaluate that stuff as best they can and give us really, really good information. I think it's going to be important going forward, whoever we get money from, whether it's a federal agency, whether it's a state agency or whatever, to have that third party report from Televate to show that we've not only come up with what we think we need, but we've got an outside agency that validated that and agrees with us and for the reasons why that we need to do that. Ultimately, at the end of the day, I'm the fire chief here in Barrie. I want the best equipment for my personnel that we can possibly get as quick. I want it yesterday, but we know that's not possible. But for the whole area, we need to update this stuff. You think about the fact that Pat Lay, he got this money for Capital Fire Mutual Aid 1989, 1990-ish. That equipment is old. We could only hope as a group of people here that the equipment that we buy, wherever we get the money from, lasts as long as the equipment has that we got when Pat Lay, he bought it for us the last time because chances are it won't. If you've ever heard of technological obsolescence, that's what's going on these days. Again, Joe and I will work to make sure that our manager who puts us up and backs us to do the work that we do for you, for us, that he comes on board just like Mr. Frazier has in Montpelier. I suspect that he will. I'm sure there's going to be a city council component to that. But with these darn short windows of opportunity that get presented to us, trying to get something warned and get on the meeting and make a presentation so they even know what you're talking about takes so much time that it doesn't sound like we got. We certainly haven't got it for Bernie's request. And we'll be pushing it to find that we have it for for what Pat is looking for. But regardless, I'm sure in concept it will be supported by our administration. Great. Well, I mean, you heard a lot of praise about the information you have gathered on the three projects that have been floating around. And that would be very useful. Indeed, if Mackenzie says yes, go ahead and share that that would really strengthen our information. Sanders doesn't ask for as much detail as Leahy. But what we put in now, again, is just the beginning, there'd be more asked for later. So that's why it makes it a little more doable, particularly Sanders is much, much simpler than Leahy's and Leahy is simpler than it will be. The next stage will be more complex. I have a question. Yes, Kim. Are you sure the Sanders date is Saturday? I thought it was Friday, the last time I looked at the flyer. It's 15th. I haven't printed here. Well, whatever, we can check it, but I was. Yeah. Yes, what? We'll check it. Yeah. But yeah, somebody has to do some writing tomorrow. Yes, I talked with Paco about doing some drafts. Well, actually, he's already started one. And I'm glad you brought that up because talking to Paco about time and how what the cost would be, he feels there's hours unused. He estimates to be unused within his current contract. And about 40 hours that he he doesn't see him using in the television study that we could apply to this. And so I would really want the board to think about that and give the approval for him to spend time on the application, both applications. I just looked up the date. It is May 14th at six. I just turned to that page two when Kim was talking. I saw I got the 15th in my brain. It's Friday, 6, 6 p.m. So is Paco going to take the lead on the draft? Yeah. And that's why we ask people in the email that went with the minutes that people think about that I sent out with the HisDraft application. I sent out an email to think about what you would add to it and give input to Paco. Comments, suggestions. Okay. I think the committee which President is UI and Doug should review the draft and help him with it as much as possible because it's going to be a struggle to get this ready by 6 o'clock tomorrow. Paco, how do you feel about that? Well, it may be a struggle. I am looking at it from a macro view. That is, I'm looking at the standards application as being a high-level conceptual grant proposal. The keys in my mind are going to be to adequately identify and articulate the problem such that we capture somebody's attention. I think that the other issue is to identify our solutions to fit in with some of the federal guidelines. Those solutions have to include discussion of interoperability needs. It has to include P25 radio standards. It needs to include a reliance or a support and build of broadband. It needs to include, I think, some redundancy and backup issues, backhaul perhaps. And then we need to articulate the budget, the concept, and that's where I'm hoping to work with Doug, Brent, and Joe on the budget they put together, which is basically, I think, a very high-level discussion of the component parts of this project. Those component parts are the capital fire simulcast solution, the in-building or the dual city solution, and the radio consoles. The radio consoles actually are, I think, an important part of this project because it's going to include radio consoles for both Montpelier and Berry City. And I think we can make a good case for that's a huge step for interoperability issues. All the things that you've said, as well as the three projects already being outlined previously, TeleVet felt very strongly that they could endorse that and they were willing to give us quotes that we could use, referring to the upcoming study as them as experts. They very much agreed with what's being done so far and that we need to go further and really look at our deficits and that our goal is to be that P-25 standard everywhere and this is going to give us a big leap there. And they also included governance in that discussion and they use the public safety standard of starting with governance. So that's something public safety is very much comfortable with that kind of terminology and approach. To get back to Kim's point, do I think that there's obstacles in putting these earmarks together? I think there's huge obstacles in putting them together. From what research I've done thus far, I'm not sure that there are really any federal funding sources, agencies that will support land mobile radio. Yeah, the project is not an easy fit into the accounts, the federal accounts that are attached to Lehi's grant. Sanders doesn't mention that, but Lehi does and may have bad odds, but I feel like if we do it now, whatever we gain and if we don't get it in, it'll put us in a better position down the road. Yeah, one other point I'd like to make. This doesn't involve any governance issue that I see does not involve any seeding of personnel by any agency to any other agency. So that problem we don't need to deal with maybe five, six years from now, but not right away. So it's strictly governance of who's going to own the system, who's going to maintain it, and who's going to pay for it is kind of what the plan is. Yeah, governance of cost allocation. Who's on the board? Donna, when your board's through, I'd like to speak to this. Okay, any other comments among board members? Tally? Just briefly, Capitol Fire Mutual Aid, I know Donna, you had said something about sending a letter of support and we certainly would be willing to do that. I know the timeline is very short, but if there's a letter to be signed, we certainly would do that. Okay, Paco presented some bullet points that I was going to use to send out sort of a formatted letter that then people can adjust as they want, sending a little different format to each of the entities that are doing support letters, so they don't all look alike, but they have key elements in them. Okay, great. Go ahead, Jim. Okay, I just want to plant a seed. I'd like to see if this is going to be a grand plan, and we're going to go for the sky first. I would certainly like to see included in it, at least keeping our foot in the door to ultimately down the road be able to monitor fire ground channels. There's a lot of anecdotal stories of Bridgeport, Connecticut, a double line of duty death. When Paco said we want to catch someone's eye, that's one that catches their eye. Two firefighters died because they were actually monitoring fire ground and they didn't hear it. They weren't listening, and two people died because of that. That's good stuff from the catching people's attention, although it was very tragic. It turns out that I had some discussions recently in the last few days, some emails and Joe and I kind of got together and brainstormed a little bit, but it kind of turns out it's not as difficult and as expensive as it might seem to put it on this whole system because you don't need to repeat the fire ground. You only need to be able to have dispatch here. The portables and the portables only need to be able to talk within the range of a fire ground, so you don't need to repeat a system and Joe came up with this idea or at least suggested worth looking at. The existing radio system, 155190, could be switched over to be a fire ground channel and everything is in place for dispatch to listen to that channel. They would select a tower at the beginning of an incident and that's the only time they have to switch. Now they're selecting towers in between conversations, but at the beginning of a fire they'd select a tower and it's already in place. I don't know if there have to be some revision to it, but I would certainly like to keep that in the discussion. I also have some studies, research and certainly a lot of examples of where other parts of the country have said this was essential to have fire ground monitoring. Is that something you could write out and send to Paco? Yeah, sure. I could do that sooner the better. Yeah. And what was the term you called it? What am I called what? The system. The fire ground monitoring? Fire ground. It's the conversation between firefighters on radio, land to mobile, on the fire ground, but if dispatch is listening to it, but one they could jump in and pick up unacknowledged transmissions or repeat, relay and answer and actually give instructions or orders to responding apparatus. But the biggest reason for it is that if a firefighter has a half a second to yell a Mayday and no one hears it, that may have been his only chance of being rescued. And there's a number of examples around the country where they weren't heard. I understand how it works. I just wasn't hearing the term right. Sorry. Fire ground monitoring is the general term for it. Well, if you could send what you have, it sounds like you have a lot of information. That'd be great. I would be happy to do that. Paco, I tried to send it to you and I had the wrong email. Donna, I'm sorry again. I've never had this problem before, but I just wanted to finish. I think I cut out on saying that there's a lot of obstacles. I was going to finish the, I was going to finish my statement that says, well, there may be a lot of obstacles. You can't play ball if you're not in the ballpark. So, you know, if we don't submit anything, then we know we're not going to get anything. So we might as well submit something and go on record as having a project in central Vermont and advocate strongly for funding. That was my message. And get on their radar. They can tell us what, what was wrong with it and what we need to do. I mean, then we have a relationship going. So I would entertain a motion that we go ahead and do the application to both Sanders and Leahy as best we can with the information we can gather in the short time we have. I'll make that motion. I'll second. Okay. Brent, did you get both of those? Okay. Any further discussion? I'm still waiting. I'm sorry, Stephen. Did you want to say something? Yes, I did. I still do. I think that it's important to recognize that the Televate needs assessment was kind of a phase one. And it was anticipated that following a phase one needs assessment would be an engineer design. I know some members of the board have mentioned the, or any member of the board has mentioned the analysis of potential costs or benefits of a trunk system and whether that's compatible with or an add-on to a simulcast system. And so what I want to point out is that we might want to, you as applicants might want to consider a different approach for the Sanders earmark, which is also these aren't grants. These are earmarked appropriations. So it's important to refer to them as that. Yeah, they're direct appropriations from Congress and earmarked for this project. But it could be that phase two of the engineering design for the system. And that's where all of the details of backup and redundancy and failure modes, you know, multi-site failure modes, I understand, are not being done in this analysis. So it may be that the Leahy deadline is what, a month further out? A week. Or two weeks further out? One week. I see one week. So I guess my point is, depending on how flexible, we also don't have it discussed whether or not Central Vermont could end up with a PSAP out of this. And so I would suggest that we make part of the approach not entered to things that have not yet been completely engineered, but yet allow after the money to build them regardless, but not commit to things that we haven't yet figured out is that the best overall in the long run? A good example was the fire ground monitoring that Jim just brought up. But the Trump radio system and the PSAP and Paco mentioned mobile broadband. Mobile broadband analysis and even implementation of filling areas with small cells will get attention. That is desirable. That's what they've been fundsets putting billions into for FirstNet. And we have the ability to infill areas where FirstNet isn't going to cover using small cells that will support mobile wireless and fixed wireless to help students and elementary patients. So those are things that would definitely catch the attention of the congressional staffers that are going to review this because that is the kind of demonstration of integrated planning that I know that they have been wrestling with. So asking for money to complete an engineered design as phase one and then to implement the design even if we don't have all the details of the implementation yet decided might be the smartest approach. But definitely don't leave out any options that we still might want to add later because that will not be to our advantage. All right. Thank you. Anyone else before we make the vote? All in favor of approving the motion to make these applications of earmarks? Say aye or raise your hand. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. It passes unanimously. Wonderful. Next on the agenda was also about the Capital Farm Mutual Aid. We've heard that there are some shortfalls in the organization having all their paperwork done as it should be within the Secretary of State. There may be some other outstanding paperwork that I don't know. But I think it would be a really positive and important step for Central Mont Public Safety Authority to offer some funds to help pay for the legal fees to get their paperwork in order. And I would like to, I don't know, Dan, if you have any idea how much paperwork there is at all that's required or what the cost range was. But I thought we could make like an allocation of up to a certain amount and at least help them out on it. Well, obviously, it depends on the attorney and the, but, you know, for any type of incorporation, you're talking about putting together a set of bylaws and an article. If it's a municipal entity, you know, essentially making the filings with the state, I think we've, you know, you would throw out, Donna, the idea of $4,000. I think that's a reasonable amount of money. You probably won't cover it all. It depends on how, you know, if we're talking about sort of an off the shelf boilerplate set of articles and bylaws to sort of straighten out and or there's existing bylaws. There's existing paperwork. It's just a matter of making sure everything's effectively and properly filed. I think $4,000 should probably cover a lot. It would certainly make a substantial dent into it. I'd go as high as five or six, but I think that's a fair range. Sally, do you have any input on this or inside knowledge of what you have and what's needed? I honestly do not. I don't know. Joe might have a better idea I know there's bylaws and stuff for. I thought you had bylaws. Donna? Yes, Kim? There was another situation in Rutland where the papers didn't get filed and the processes that you apply to the fire marshal, you give him your articles and if he files a petition and if that gets approved, then it has to go to the attorney general for approval because the attorney general supervises creation of new municipalities in the state to make sure that everybody knows what's happening. That does require articles of association and new bylaws. I think there is an additional step that's separate from this, but the whole governance issue which I can talk about when we get to the individual reports. The governance issue is I outlined in my memo can be very complicated because the governance of CFMAS may not be complicated, but its relationship to CVPSA is somehow if they have roughly 30,000 population and the cities of area and Montpelier have 10,000 each and we're going to own a common system, there has to be some recognition of the population served. Kim, I'm just going to interrupt you here because I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of what the governance should be versus the process of how we start to discuss the governance. I agree with you Donna, it's a complex subject. I'm just saying that both CVPSA and CFMAS could probably use some legal help in doing that. Yeah that's why the cost is there. Joe had his hand up. I've been appointed the front person for capital fire to work with the Secretary of State. We've been assigned a person that is dedicated to straighten this out in conjunction with the Attorney General's office. They are working on this right now at this point in conjunction with our lawyer and them. They are seeing that this was a mistake at the Secretary of State's level, not at capital fires and they are trying to work it through between them and the Attorney General's office. They said that they will make this right. So we are in the process waiting for them to finish their investigation and vetting. About every other week I get emails of update which I keep Skip and Paul in the loop in and our lawyer and so until the state comes back to me and says this is what needs to be done they told us that they will make this right. That they are looking that this was a mistake way back on when one of the grants was applied for and we had changed our nonprofit status and that's about all I can go into it right now. So we are on top of it and we're working through it. Do you have some costs associated with that Joe? I do not right now they had not told us anything. Okay Dan. Yeah I mean here's what I'd offer and maybe this is similar is that it sounds like the Secretary of State in the AG's office maybe there may be some repayment to the Mutual Aid Fire Society from you know for their legal fees created by the mistake of the Secretary of State's office in which case we wouldn't necessarily want to intervene but maybe what we can offer and I would support this is something where after the dust settles if the Mutual Aid Fire Society has some expense that when unpaid we may be able to help with that and at that point in time you know it's almost like victims of defalcation the Var Association offers a certain fund after insurance and everything else has attempted to repay them if there's anything else left we we swoop in and maybe that's what we would just simply offer to to them and to be determined and you know I I don't think we necessarily need to commit to a certain number or specifics but just you know I mean I think the discussion here is that there's a certain range that we're comfortable with and see how it plays out and and then they can always come back and ask for money if if there's additional things that fall beyond the Secretary of State's issue that we may be able to assist with. That sounds really good Secretary of State Attorney General taking it on and owning it but yes that sounds good to me anybody else that you I want you to see us as a resource and we want to support you in this and so is the motion that we would entertain what once the costs are known we would entertain the CVPSA would help to reimburse costs once we know what the numbers are. So I don't know that we need a motion as long as I know our intent this point. And actually I'd recommend that we don't make a motion because we don't want to commit to a pot of money because if Secretary of State or AG is is out there and they're like well you're gonna get 6,000 from CVPSA that's 6,000 less we have to to front. I think what we're willing to do is to sort of help make you whole but they the AG and the Secretary of State should step up to the plate first. Okay that satisfies me. Yeah yeah so we're in cognito but we're there. Okay great. Finally the round table. I'm asking people to. Donna are you gonna talk about the point-to-point assessment? I had that I really didn't list it but I'm glad you brought it up. I'm going to put it under under other business on the agenda. The next thing is round table. Okay I'd like to get to that even if it's more shorter than our initially if people could even just take a two minutes or less and say just one or two golds that they would like to achieve in the new year that starts July 1 for us. I would like to hear it. And you can volunteer or I can choose you. Who'd like to go first? Okay Kim I'm gonna time you. Well I sent you out a memo on April 17th my thoughts and basically what we have to determine for the future is who's going to own the new system, who's going to pay for it, and who's going to maintain it. And when I began working for the state of Vermont back in the 60s I worked on union school governance issues but I've gotten a little rusty in the 50 years since and they're complicated but I can foresee various systems which CFMAS could own this and have representation not only in proportion but we also have to come up with cost issues. I think those are very complicated and I think we should think about engaging a legal counsel to help us with that and I don't know who's up on all that but I read the newspapers on union schools for example in the valley certain towns have combined say three towns and they get one vote and I think the CFMAS could do the same thing just off the top of my head if we had two groups of seven towns each and gave them each two representatives they'd be populated and get proportion representation. I'm not offering that as a solution I'm just saying there's a lot of creative work that can be done that will have to be done and I'd like to get some really professional help in doing that and I don't know if Dan has any idea of. Okay we're not we're not coming into solutions we're just bringing up what your goals are I'm sorry I'm going to define you Kim and so I hear your goal as a real concern on the governance issue the voting the cost that that's really important and that you see us needing outside resources to do that. Thank you. Okay I'm going to be brutal about the time because I want to hear everybody and we put this off a couple meetings now. Who's next? Dan? Okay no I'll be brief in that you know I think this is a very interesting point for CDPSA and for Central Vermont Dispatch Services in that you know it certainly feels like this Tel Aviv report is the first step in trying to figure out what a unified dispatch service looks like and so I guess my goal is to make sure that we get through this first phase and then we take that report and really start to plan out a second phase and I'm excited to think you know because I think this is one of those great regional models in that I think there'll be some tension to reinvent the wheel and just create something that is entirely shared but I think there's we also have to look at what we have and sometimes existing systems turn into regional systems and and there's a path forward on that both of which are workable but you know require a certain amount of buy-in and planning so I'm looking forward to those parts. Okay thank you. Jim? I guess my overriding thing is to use CDPSA to advance the regional approach to a whole litany of services and not just fire, police and EMS and dispatch there I mean there's a lot of regional things that can be done in fire service that I think this structure could be utilized to do that. Training comes to mind and original training approaches is a very beneficial thing because training is caught is very expensive to bring in experts to do the training and so forth it all becomes very small scale when it's done on the local level but the the larger issue for me is to try to help the board realize that the fire the scope of the fire dispatching that we do in Vermont is very different than a lot of other places in the country and that there is so much more that dispatch could be participating in that really helps the fire departments in the field and we seem to have a very narrow scope of what fire dispatching is and and what's interesting I'll say this quickly the departments that are the largest seem to have the most proactive and active fire dispatching and to a certain extent they're the ones that need it the least when we show up on scene with three people having a fourth person helping coordinate some of the organization in the first 15 minutes of a fire is huge you know deciding where staging location is deciding who's going to be on the what department's going to have the RIT team I had some conversations with Chief Pete and he's from Chicago they have terrific fire dispatching I mean they're they're signing different all the different chiefs that it gets signed on a particular job you know there's just a lot of the area that we haven't really been exposed to that much up here so I guess my my primary goal is to get the board as well as a lot of the people in the services to recognize that that the role that dispatch can play can have a huge effect on on the organizational and the the effectiveness of the fire operations and the safety of the firefighters so I'll leave it at that but I think that's something I'd like to focus on so beyond advancing regional services and in particularly training the other part I got was to educate the board better about understanding the more expansive role of the dispatcher is that accurate yeah I wouldn't choose the the word educate because I think that's a little presumptuous well I'm sorry I mean okay no I don't want to say I'm going to educate anymore because you've talked a lot about operational issues so I think it's at the heart of your passion so how you can send me words in your own I mean you can send your own words I'm totally uh you know I I was just being facetious because I wanted to use the word education and I said now that sounds kind of pompous okay well we do every once in a while what the heck all right thank you Jim okay uh Grant Sally who I pick on next I'll go um so coming coming from a completely outside perspective here you know I I don't have any experience in public safety services but I will say that you know this has been quite a learning experience for me and it really kind of brings to light you know how much people depend on the services that fire and police provide but at the same time not a lot of people knows what goes into providing those services a lot of people just take for granted that they're going to be they pick up the phone and dial 911 and the fire the police just show up at your house uh or wherever they're needed for that matter um and so for me it's real I really think that you know as we get this televate study and as we learn more about how to move forward you know it is a very it is a very exciting time um but I do think you know while we're trying to formulate as a group what to do I think it's going to be beneficial um to have you know more of the public figure out why these things are needed and do this community outreach I mean in and Nacha I know we've mentioned it at previous meetings about reaching out to some of the select boards and and you know with these city councils um but I also think that also becoming more visible to the community at large um where we you know where a lot of people don't know when they pick up a phone what actually goes into what technology and what resources are needed to provide the services that you know they we we use every day um so I think that's you know in terms of me I think a personal goal for me is to kind of learn more about this and learn more you know more of the intricacies um as we move forward but also um I think doing a lot of community outreach is definitely uh something that I think is really important moving forward I did write down what you said but I have to share an idea because you were talking about it I was just thinking of opening our website with some really fabulous statistics data question that would challenge all of us but public especially that would charge them with an interest of learning more about what you talked about so we we can tie that in with the website website too that's cool thank you okay Sally sorry that's okay um so some of mine I would echo what Brent said I think a lot of people don't realize what goes into dispatching what has to happen behind the scenes um I feel like right now we're actually in the last month or so I like we're really kind of working together capital fire and um CVPSA in a positive direction um and really my goal is for us to do whatever we can to improve um the safety and the reliability of the communication system but I do think that um educating the public as to exactly the importance of it and really what does go on behind the scenes will help with the support from the communities great thank you very distinct all right we have visitors anybody want to share Joe Doug Brent did we miss uh Chief Hoyt uh Stephen I'm sorry I forgot you you can have your two minutes no did we did did Chief Hoyt share his goals or did he about jump off no we're talking about just very specifically for the next year focus no I know I'm just saying I didn't hear Hoyt another board member oh Doug Hoyt and he let me get away with it how can I miss you Doug I'm sorry thank you Stephen you're up uh I think this is going to be like music the Jim Jim Ward's ears I'm gonna I'm gonna think a little further down the road one of my goals is to would be to play off of the work that uh you know Doug Brent Joe and others have done in terms of getting these issues to the forefront getting them to the uh stage that we're talking about in terms of doing uh earmark uh requests and things like that but from my perspective having dealt with dispatchers for for many years primarily in the police fire services is that for them to do the job that they're most capable of doing in terms of directing people to multiple locations seemingly at multiple times a full-fledged fully working CAD system that would assist them to provide these services when they're sitting there in the dispatch center and they're overwhelmed with all the phone calls and all the calls that are coming from people that are responding and everything else it's really good to know what piece of equipment is out there how far away is it and how soon can we get it to where it needs to get to and to do that a full-fledged fully working CAD system can be a truly lifesaver um so and I realize that's down the road a little bit but if all the other things that we got talking here about uh come to fruition then in my mind and I could be wrong because it wouldn't be the first time it would be a really a godsend for doing that stuff falls in line with what Sally is saying a lot of people don't really don't know what the what the dispatchers are doing and and maybe it's not important that they know exactly what the dispatchers are doing but it'd be nice to know that the dispatchers can direct the people and the equipment to where it is needed the most and on a regional basis that would be ideal awesome you know that hasn't come up for a while but it makes me remember going back to the region lakes or lake region dispatch lake I mean awesome and we should get all the board members who haven't been there should go it it's it's just awesome thank you I'm so glad you brought that one up Donna could I just piggyback something on what the chief said a CAD system is essential to be part of it and and I don't see that as down the road if we're going to do anything raising technology the CAD system would be part of it not just a record retention system a real CAD system that they know where their resources are and the other point that is equally essential and Pete said this on an email to me that if you don't have the sufficient personnel it doesn't matter what they can listen to if they don't have time to do it they need to have sufficient personnel to assume the additional responsibilities if I just add in here Donna I'd make a distinction between a records management system RMS and a CAD system a CAD right they they have to be hand and glove glove and hand however you want to look at it right records and equipment okay now it's 746 we have a couple more things to do so I didn't call on anyone but I'm willing to give everybody a minute who hasn't spoken if you like to add anything Joe Doug Brent Steven Joe take 30 seconds and the board is starting to crawl at this point I've had the unique vantage point of seeing it from the initial steps to now and I think as it re-envisions itself I think there's some critical decisions that have to be made as a whole not just by the board but by communities and and I think it's essential to to remain to crawl first before you stand up and walk and then but walk first before you run the longest where everybody is doing it and right if you if you went from crawling to running you tend to convolut issues and I urge the board to continue to go on a slow steady pace we have an opportunity here to really change the way dispatching is done in central mont and really modernize it but I think we really need to be methodical and do it correctly but also have to be mindful of the final price tag and and that that's huge and we can go for the Cadillac but we may end up with the Taurus so I just I I have a unique look into this with Chief Brent knowing some of the prices and and yeah I mean the Cadillac's nice we may not be able to have the gold faucets at first but we did design the system to be able to mature to that level I think that'll be effective I'll leave it at that good point anyone else okay in next step on the agenda is reviewing committees and I would just like to spend not much time on this as we don't have much left either but initially we had talked about having the committee that dealt with the Taliban contract the charter the website and outreach that Kim was going to be chair of the Taliban contract that Jim was doing to do the charter Brent was done to the website Doug with also assistance from Sally on outreach is that still good for people as far as chairs it's fine with me okay I did give Jim a heads up I really want to see the charter being more broad based in talking with Taliban and others that I really feel there is a structure I should say structure there's an entity we have called Center Vermont Public Safety Authority we can make major changes to its existing charter just by changing board membership and total totally change the organization I mean what if all the boards were chiefs far chiefs police chiefs city managers and then maybe two or three public in persons if we really looked at it as a way to say okay how do we change some of the voting layouts if you change the membership of the board within the charter itself so I'm just throwing that out there because then if we start with the charter we're sort of reacting to something and putting things in instead of trying to look at governance all new again so I'm asking the charter committee to take a much broader look as well as some of the what I call housekeeping we need to do within the charter between now and December and really make some decisions about what we might put before the legislators and part of this discussion definitely tell that would be part of we would be hoping that actually on the governance issue particularly that they might take the lead on it they're giving me some numbers of cost if we got the earmark it'd be part of that and if not then we might have to go looking for some funds but I think it'd be really important to have a neutral party lead that even though the committee would be there governing they would govern them the way the televent contract committee governs that work and so what's that sound like to people just trying to get a different look of how to approach and reform the entity of central vermont public safety authority to become something that our members can really relate to uh jim and then kim yeah I have to say um I was kind of taken back by your email um only because I didn't anticipate the scope that you were talking about I was of the impression that we were um looking to do some housekeeping uh and a couple of tweaks uh some problematic areas in the uh you know in the uh bylaws of the charter um and when I read it through I didn't see anything that struck me as being earth shattering on the other hand if you or the the board desires to totally revamp the whole thing I uh and maybe even maybe it needs to be revamped going a different direction I guess I would like to see some kind of consensus of what where did they want to get to um you just mentioned something I had not given any thought to whatsoever but there should be public safety positions on this board I agree with the chiefs they you know someone that's at least involved in the in the uh in the field um you know we could very easily have a board here that no one had any field experience um and that's not to say there isn't a very critical place for regular citizens as well but but the needs that I see that as being valuable that's what you're talking about although I hadn't considered that at all before so I have to rethink it a little bit in terms of my available time or whatever but it sounded like from your email you wanted to do a complete rewrite and I wasn't totally prepared for that but I'm just again I'm trying to think out of the box Jim that doesn't mean you you don't tomorrow you start meeting I mean there's a dozen things I would change in the charter that you might call nitty gritty but they're really substantial like from when our organized organizing meeting when our annual meeting all sorts of dates that don't flow with our activities at all that need to be changed um so that can be on your agenda and you may say great but if the board decides to go this way then I don't necessarily want to handle it but the discussion of governance can be like its own committee because I really feel the governance needs the far chiefs around the table all the far chiefs as many as we can get and town city managers that we really have a broad discussion of what it takes for them to feel comfortable and have faith and trust in an organization that they'll be well represented in and then if they have that discussion and they make a proposal to the board then the board might say okay well let's try to do this as a charter change and maybe it's this year maybe it's next year I don't know but I'm just trying to think differently about it that I I agree with what you just said that governance in the large scope of things is slightly different than a charter committee a charter committee is kind of tweaking things I thought governance redirection and redesigning of the governance is is a is a big big ticket item yeah but it's stated in within the charter that's where our governance is the charter no I recognize that but in terms of concepts um you know where we want to go with it is something that I would like to see the the board give general areas that they think are a problem they don't think representation is is adequate right now for some different you know interest groups then that would be something we'd look at but if they think the board's find the way it is and maybe we'd look at something different but anyway I'm just saying that that I was a little taken back by the scope of what you were thinking no it's a new idea I may do that to everybody time to time you know I feel sometimes it may be half baked but it can open up another thought that then takes us somewhere um I mean I think an advisory board is something that could be also there could be an advisory committee that the public safety departments put together for us or something of that that's just another idea to throw okay if we pull the governance out outside the charter for now and just leave the charter with the more regular things we've been thinking of would the board support like a round table that we're meeting with the far chiefs and city managers and start seeing what they feel is needed for the governance is the board comfortable with that donna yep um my half form thoughts about this would be to amend the charter to allow the board with the consent of its member legislative bodies to reorganize the board membership this is what I'm saying is that the process is very cumbersome it has to go to the legislature it has to be voted on by the towns before that happens and then it has to be approved by the governor and I wonder if we could give the authority with certain safeguards uh I'm sorry Cam you're getting into details of charter change well how would you approach it how would you want us to approach it that you'd be on a committee and give this input well I'm certainly willing to be on a committee I'm just suggesting that if we could give the board give some internal process to do this because there's going to be a lot of negotiation a lot of talk which is necessary and should be welcome but it's going to take time and I'd like to find a way to do it that because if we miss this session of legislature it'll be another year before we can even talk about it well if we actually got money got the earmark and the money was there tell of it said between now and January they felt it could be done well we don't need to change the charter to do that to actually look at governance and have the stakeholders and meet and sort of well and that may that may require a charter change absolutely but just in case people don't realize having been with the original beginning of the committee that then became the actual before it was an official under Vermont Public Safety Authority Committee the intention of having the cities appoint the assumption was that they would point somebody from the public services and they didn't and they choose not to and so it's been very hard because on one hand we sought for years opinions of the chiefs but the chiefs were never there to vote on something and then follow through with it they just would share an opinion to sort of go away come back share an opinion and often it changed so for some reason the cities just didn't do that and maybe because it it's not like Lake Region it doesn't have all chiefs maybe that was the issue but I just feel governance needs to be talked about really solidly with the people who have the most issue being a member of public safety authorities like why aren't you a member well there's these issues well let's get them out on the table talk about them can we resolve them if the board's not interested in that I mean I've just heard governance forever is being an issue oh I'm certainly willing to talk about it I think it needs to be talked about well where are other people at well if I can offer I mean I I think going back to Jim's comments you know if we think about if we think about what you're proposing with this governance change it is a little bit outside of a review of the charter and sort of looking to update and modernize the charter and and you know go through that that kind of review you're talking about a much more fundamental shift where the charter would kind of follow from that which is you know trying to reach out to the stakeholders and saying um you know and it becomes a little bit of chicken egg cart horse kind of dilemma which is I think if the you know and maybe this goes to Joe's comments as well as you know right now I think what the problem was there are two problems is that they're getting chiefs to be honest this board I know I've talked with Bill Frazier for example and he's pushed back on that idea in part because of a feeling of conflict of interest and you know we can agree or disagree about that perception but that's going to be out there a lot but but I think the other issue is that we want to make sure that there's where we're starting to walk and we're starting to take on responsibility because I think then you will see people coming to this or chiefs you know coming because it becomes important because of the work we're doing and the the sort of representation follows the work but at the same time I mean I think that follows that work follows the outreach and part of what we're doing is I think we're we're building or rebuilding you know our relationships with these various municipal groups we're trying to chart out a vision for what CVS CVPSA does and can do and wants to do you know so that we don't get ahead of ourselves and suddenly say we're CVSVPSA and we've come to take your dispatch but we do come in and offer these benefits such as you know legal reimbursement which I think is it was a great idea or you know this televate study and we start to become the central clearinghouse and we start to build some of the structures that then you know where you can work with these various things and then I think suddenly you start to have some of these governance issues solving themselves because the work follows the governance follows the work and that right now you know I think we're that's that's at least my sense I'll make I'll park it there well I mean one thing it would come up quickly if we got any kind of major capital grant then it always comes down to the equipment where's it sit and so that's why trying to at least start some governance discussion now to get ready for that yes someone else Sally Grant Doug Hoyt Paco anybody and you can just think about it but if you want to share some thoughts now okay so I'm asking the charter then right now Jim just to you know look at your small scope of looking at that and I have several items to give you that some are in the minutes but I'll actually write them all out for you by chapter and name them for you but I'd be hoping that you'd actually all of you would have your committees meet at least once before our next meeting and if you have difficulties with a zoom meeting I can loan you mine I can set up the meeting and give you access to it so you can pay host or if you have another tello conferencing feature that you can use but that we would need to post the committee meetings advertise them make sure people know about them have the option to join the remote meeting and I can be in more communication with each of you one on one are there members who would like to say right now I want to work on the charter I want to work on outreach so we can actually tell them who their committee members are yes Dan well I'm willing to work with Kim on the televate committee okay I'm willing to be a resource to the charter I've given a lot of thought to this both occasionally and during my career so I'd be happy to work with you on that Jim Sally you're still good outreach I mean you can do more I mean you can small board more and more committee Doug Hoyt outreach and you had been on the televate contract right yeah I'm I'm I'm still good with the outreach and I can certainly slide over and do televate stuff as needed okay website Brent and I we haven't spent the money yet but we are going to be having needing some time of eternity web on some subtle changes but others could join us on the website okay I'll write these out and you can include committee members in your minutes yes Stephen I think I would ask that the website committee and or this whole board being that capital fire doesn't have a website and this appears to be the beginning of kind of a collaboration it might be wise to kind of fill that role for them as well it either a merged website or two sister websites that could help the public clear clarify who's doing what for whom and and there's a lot of deep history I've I've been researching this for quite a while and there's you know a good 30 40 years of history that would be useful to inform everybody that would be who belongs on a website so just an idea well we can have Sally pass it on and see if there's interest there and what that might look like it would be something useful helpful and we might actually think about other links I mean when you mentioned that I realized there are probably other places we could also simple links even to the to the cities and yes okay other business pinpoint did I totally confuse you did maybe everyone else knew about this and not me that uh are these apps on the phone and this is a particular program that televate has developed I found out today that you can't use an iPhone on it and only can be an android smartphone and that people could just have that app and everywhere they go for that month it's collecting data on what carriers have reception where they are and the idea is ultimately you get to map out your whole area where the dead spots are where the live spots are where Verizon is where AT&T whatever mobile I think we have team mobile now these days Donna I think if I'm not correct it you would require a separate phone on each network to get that kind of mapping yes you know each carrier of the phone what it is we have an account you get 20 volunteers their phone number goes into the system and it is their carrier that you're mapping so hopefully with our volunteers we would get some that have Verizon some that have AT&T and maybe I don't know T-Mobile I don't know all the ones that are here but it is their your right is the phone's carrier that you're picking up on and it's a free app we can use for three months and on every month you get a report what they found so we would know if there's some spots we have nobody driving through so you can either do it as just your regular routine plus you might add a few additional roads to your drive just to hit some spots we don't normally travel but the idea is to end up getting a pretty good map of what your real network is versus what your provider tells you I've been I've been writing about and suggesting this for over a year now and one of the problems of having volunteers do it is that when you're if you're going to be measuring data throughput you're going to quickly hit the the bricks the limits on data that people have typically have on their phone above you know so many gigabytes and so it really almost takes a special account phone account with an unlimited like never throttled data in order to accomplish this so it might be something that's worth putting into the uh earmark funding and do it to do it right last time the state contracted for this type of service uh it was in 2013 and doing the whole state at that time was three hundred and something thousand dollars you could extrapolate down what Washington County would be uh to have it professionally done but we have this opportunity to do it for three months now um and they've only given us to us because we're a current client I I try to yeah I just I'm warning you that the week if we we may not be able to get the data throughput measurements if we if we use up all the volunteers phone data allowance is what I'm cautioning I understand I understand I somehow Rick didn't feel that was an issue but uh I'll try to get parameters from him so that people who volunteer can look at their phones and see anyone else here knows about pinpoint see that's Jim sorry Jim yeah I don't know anything about it but I have a clarification question is this collecting data for an individual's data areas or so I would compare as you drive through and there's waves going through for any kind of cellular carriers network and this particular app is a special program that then collects that data of oh I drove through Elm Street and I picked up Verizon and then when I went all the way out to Wooster I lost it here and here and I picked it up here so that my question is what's the end game is it for the benefit of the game is that it gets downloaded you end up with a second is it for the individual to know where they're dead areas are they going to do an aggregate and hold have all 20 put on one map yes it's all one account it's all one map so it feeds in yeah the data the data collected which is signal strengths location data throughput on a very cellular level is uploaded next time you get to wi-fi it it's automatically uploaded to tell of a server and there are privacy implications to it depending on who gets access to the data of how long you spent you know at the bar before you went to the fire but you those can be those aren't insurmountable if you actually go that's the way it works hell of it dot com slash pinpoint you can see more narrative but you can see some of the maps that ended up with that kind of input they usually do it by county when they do it when you pay for it yourself it's three thousand dollars a month so I thought it was worth looking at if there's no interest then you know it's gonna hard to be get volunteers well Donna I think it for long-range planning which would include the broadband connections you know for data transmission sending EKGs to the hospital for example that would be vital information to have yeah Joe would you think that's not helpful information acknowledges power and I think any if you can find the volunteers to do it I think great like I said we're we're we're crawling pretty good right now and the more knowledge we have we can push forward I mean if you actually ask some of your firefighters to say hey would you would you have your phone be one of the devices do you think we could get a couple volunteers I think that we're I would take it back to capital fire and I think you're going to be more beneficial to the more rural departments to get an accurate mapping than you were to have city firefighters do it well other than your city firefighters don't all live in berry for the most part they live locally okay okay so Donna can I offer a suggestion here what to do next quick yes okay I think this is a good project for CVPSA to provide the back end support services there's some some maps you'll need printed maps for those volunteers to check off the roads they've already driven and hopefully they'll finish an entire town before they hand the the pinned license off to another towns actually mentioned that to Rick that I thought we'd have to divide up the area sign roads but he he had a much informal attitude did you not think that Paco that he was just saying having people who just lived in different areas have it on that that would take care of most of the roads and by getting a report at the end of the month we would know what was missing and then we might have to assign roads is that what you heard yeah he he made it sound very simple and he made it sound like all you've got to do is give a phone to somebody or have them use their phone and drive around and the download automatically records where the person's been and the signal the cellular signal strength of the locations they've traveled I don't I don't know enough about it to to to say whether that's correct or not but what I do know is in the original RFP that cellular drive testing component was in the RFP yes it was also thought to be important enough so that in the televate contract we added it not in the original the scope of work but in potential additional scope of work that they were to bid on and instead of bidding on it they are offering this service for free nationally to 20 entities to utilize and record the cellular coverage that they have in their communities so you know the the the devil to Steve's point I suppose the devil is in further exploring the the specific details but in my mind it's also about finding the rural towns volunteers in the fire departments to go out and conduct this so it's it's less important to the cities as it is to the capital fire mutual aid towns so we really you really need capital fires support or at least them their member their their members support okay so Sally I'll send more information I believe Paul was on that list and you were they got the the first you know shout out but I'll be in touch with you and Paul and see what we can do to at least reach out and see if we can get people to be open to having the app on their phone that's a daily routine there's a mutual aid meeting this coming Wednesday night so I would think if we could get it figured out before then that would probably be good okay this Wednesday all right thank you are you able to get some questions answered about data ownership and privacy protections prior to next Wednesday in order to get kind of a one-pager together for for CFM as members I suppose I can we can reach out to yeah because the 10 the 10-year telecom plan is now out for draft review and whether or not we're going to pursue a neutral host infill model where all carriers are carried on the cells it would be important that we not have to elevate leak this data out the back door to one or the other carriers to give them to prejudice an RFP response well he thinks all public safety should have this so they would instantly know where their reception is when they need it oh I know I'm I'm saying that for AT&T and Verizon to know where their each other's dead zones are uh might you might uh color uh an RFP response that the state is talking about putting out what are you saying you might want to I'm sorry I'll talk to you about it separately Marco okay what are you saying Donna is that Televate could turn around and sell the data to a competitor to create an unfair advantage right there's a I think his name was Josh but anyway I got an email from somebody one step removed from Don on the pinpoint and I'll ask him about that Donna or Paco could I wonder if we can get the Android phones from AT&T through first met so that we could get five or six phones that um a key to a particular uh service and hand them out so people don't have to use their personal phones and worry about their data I don't know that there's another level of complication the idea of course I'm also I'm also reminded that the state the department of public service provides this opportunity for free as well and maybe they have the phones I think they did have the phones but that would that would help a lot and who was that I'm sorry Paco who provides that Corey chase Corey chase uh with the department of public service he's the one that did the state's drive testing a couple of years ago or a year ago whenever it was or did they do it just once they did a partial drive test of about 800 miles or something that are 6000 miles but they did not complete the state especially the back roads and it was a one time they have they have uh if you go to the state department of public services website you can see that information on there okay so uh we've gone over our time apologize um just had not any objections of me working with capital far mutual aid to see if they're volunteers we can get 20 devices monthly reports and it'll even let us change the devices which is not normally true so that we could get other people to do it the second month so it isn't asking 20 volunteers to do it for three months jim jim i saw your hand this old wave i got it so uh yes it's okay that i contact and try to work this with capital far mutual aid or no i think that's fine i'm glad you're doing it thumbs up this is sort of a general consensus okay other people are indifferent fine all righty anything else to come before the board before we adjourn if not uh jim you're you muted i had a quick thought would would the board um objective or encourage me to send the studies that i have to put on the website so other people outside of our board could look at them there's some videos there's you know a number of different things i'm not exactly sure which ones i'll send you but if you're looking for material for the website i've got a documentary film on on video on um the whole dispatch line to do the debt thing and bridge for it which is which is very why don't you hold that thought that's a wonderful resource until we get the website a little more restructured but that's great we're just not ready for it today okay but that's that's good to know it's great okay if nothing else no objections the meeting is adjourned thank you very much thank you all see you all later