 Well, I'd like to welcome everybody to our May food for thought presented by the Dutton Institute. Thank you. We have a nice group here at Dutton and we have several of you joining us online too. So we're thankful that we have so many people participating. We're happy today to have Brett Fixler with us. He's an instructional designer with IT Learning and Development. He has lots and lots of experience and he's going to be helping all of us today, talking about how to work with our Word and PowerPoint files to ensure that they are accessible. So I'll turn it over to Brett. Thank you very much. Thanks and thanks everyone for having me today. I'm happy to be here and I'm happy to talk about this. So as was mentioned, I work for IQ Learning and Development, which used to be called ITS Training Services. We were bringing ourselves about a year ago and I like the new name a lot better. We provide a lot of different types of training on most of the centrally supported tools here at Penn State, I2, Canvas, sites at Penn State, that sort of thing. More recently, Office 365, that's been our big push for the last six months or so. So but I got involved with the accessibility things that were going on at Penn State way back when I still worked for TLT and there was a committee that was formed to address accessibility issues at Penn State. I've been involved with them, they're called the ATI, Accessible Technology and Information Committee. I've been involved with them ever since and through osmosis I've picked up a lot of stuff about accessibility. So I'm happy to be here today and I'm happy to talk about it. Yes, there's our objectives. I'm not going to read them to you and I don't expect you to read them. I'm just going to cover some of what they call the basic blockers, which are the most common things that you need to look for in a word or a PowerPoint document to do what we call optimize for accessibility. You can never make anything perfectly accessible, 100% accessible. It's a goal that you strive for. I'll give you an example of that. There was a web page. This was probably about a year ago. There was a web page that somebody wrote and said, I ran such and such a checker on it and it determined that it was inaccessible to do this color contrast. So the API community checked it out and it turned out it was like one in 32,000 people that have an issue with this page. And so the question was, what do we do? Well, they did, they changed it, they tweaked the colors a little bit. But there's always that, there's always that tension between what can I do? What should I do? What must I do to ensure that things are as optimized as possible for accessibility? Now, I'm sure all of you here are working with materials that go out to students and so on and so forth. So you can look at it two different ways. You can say, I can wait till I get a request for accommodation and then scramble to get my content fixed and all good. And good luck with that because students don't have to request accommodations till very late in the semester. So you can really be scrambling or you can be proactive and get it into as part of your workflow. I'm creating this document and this is part of my workflow now. I'm going to make sure that the tables are set correctly. I'm going to make sure that the images have alt text or alternative text. And you can do all that kind of stuff. And it's a little bit of work. It's not hard work, but once you get used to it, it becomes part of your work process. And over time, you'll figure out, oh, for a 10-page document, it's going to take the X number of minutes to do that. You can work that out for those of you that are trying to track or to try to figure out how much it's going to take me to do this stuff. You can add that to your workflow. You can put it right into the timelines. So I want to show you, since this isn't hands-on, normally when you do hands-on session, I would have you get this accessibility word and PowerPoint handout. And I would still recommend that you go here and get this. So if you go to itld.psu.edu, which is our website, and you just click on search. Don't even have to take anything in. But then once you're there, if you filter the type of training. Let's see if I can get this to scroll down here. You see if you just filter it and check accessibility. This is the easy flag configure to tell you to get to this. This will bring you to a bunch of stuff. But this is a handout. And this is a handout, Mac folks, sorry. This is a handout specific to PC. Most of the things are applicable to the Mac. It's just like different buttons, your question. But a lot of the things that I'm going to talk about today, rather than known from show, you step by step how you do it. I'll talk about it and maybe mention some of the things that you need to know. But it's in this document. So you can have this document and keep it. And it seems to be relatively stable in terms that we put this together for Word and PowerPoint 2013 and 2016 came along. There was a very minor thing to do to change it. So in terms of functionality from the accessibility standpoint and how you optimize your documents hasn't changed a whole lot, which is good. So anyway, I want to point that out to you. ITLD.PSU.edu, do a search, filter by accessibility. And it should be the first thing that comes up here. Okay. So let's go take a look. And I'm not sure whether this is going to play or not. It did have a shared computer sound. So let's hope. Okay. I do want to bounce up. I want to show you what a screen reader sounds like for those of you who have never heard it. So people with low vision and or blind will use a screen reader to read pages aloud. And it has a robotic voice. That part hasn't changed over the years. But let me see if I can get this thing fired up. And if I can't, maybe we can just copy that and put it in the chat to listen to it later. Okay. Okay. All you want to do is soak up some sun, listen to the waves and sip a tall cool drink M-dash complete with a tiny umbrella of course. But where to go? Don't worry, we've created the ultimate selection of vacation spots. So all you have to do is pack a swimsuit and dive in. Maui, graphic description, colon photo of a sunset over the ocean through the trees. 4.19 inches wide by 2.50 inches high. There's a reason Maui is famous for its speeches M-dash. They really are spectacular when you're not just baskin. So if you got to the point where you could actually hear the alt description of the image and I don't really like that they had to describe the actual size of it, I think that's. But it's okay. So anyway, that's what it's like. So a couple of things. When I first heard a screen reader, I thought I'm going to make an eye checkup. And it's very interesting because I worked years and years ago, when I worked for the Institute for the Study of Adult Literacy here in the College of In, we used a speech synthesizer because we're open for literate adults that have no English reading skills whatsoever. And it sounds exactly, this was back in like the early 80s. It sounds exactly the same. So what's even more interesting is that people that use screen readers all the time, they'll double speed it. And it's just going like this. And they understand it. So you do get used to the speech. So I'll just throw this out there. This is the audience participation part of the session here. What does accessibility mean to you? And I would encourage the folks online to go ahead and either activate their mics or take a chat. It's not a trick question. There's no, there's no radar on here. I always think of the, the people you've already met, the people that have visual disabilities, hearing disability, you know, can everybody be able to utilize the information that we put online the same way? Sure. And I think that's the important point. Everyone can get to it the same way. Anyone else have any other thoughts? I think it, I just came back from Europe for a couple of weeks and there, a lot of things are not accessible to people. Lots of stairs, lots of curves, the hallways in the bathrooms are like inches wide. And I think of accessibility and allowing everyone, no matter what their circumstance to be able to have access to whatever it might be, the bathroom, text, reading, sound, I don't know how that pertains to roof climbing or, you know, or skydiving or, you know, I don't know how, how far you take it. Because, you know, I don't ever expect to be able to climb Mount Everest. But I know it's tough. I don't know. Yeah, that's the part I struggle with with accessibility. Yeah. I, this was probably 20 some years ago and I did it, I did a session for I'm trying to think of the group, but anyway, it's down in Philadelphia. And it was on different authoring tools at the time. So we had like four different authoring tools back then as they are now, we're very highly visual. And I had a gentleman that, you know, wrote to me and said, I'm blind. Can I attend the session? I'm sure you could attend the session, but it was, I think an epic fail for him and for me because there was just no way I could restructure the event and the time that I had to try to accommodate his needs. And even if I could try and describe what's going on in the editor was almost impossible. So, but it is tough. And you do try to accommodate all those different people. And did anybody online comment? No. Okay. So what do you think about this in terms of accessibility? Is it accessible and why? There is a removed. So you can see your way to do that. We've got the different type of pavement there, the runway strips, so you know, I guess your approach and the curb. So that's, it looks like it's me. Yeah, but it's those raised bumps. So if you're using a cane, you can tap also. Seeing eye dogs or assistant dogs are trained to know that that's a thing and they need to stop and that sort of thing. How about person that can can see here and walk? Good for everyone. Exactly. That's the point here. Yeah. And this was mentioned, the idea is when we're trying to optimize for accessible, you're not trying to do something special. You're just trying to make it equally available to everyone. That's the goal. So here's a couple of the different common accommodations that people usually look at. Visual is the one we always think of first. And in terms of accommodations for, whether it's a print, print it or a PowerPoint or on the web, you want to make sure you use headings and your styles. And we'll go into all this. You want to use alternative text on the images, which you heard that one. It's kind of invisible text behind the scene. So that when a screener comes to an image, it knows what it is. I was just going to say image and that's pretty much it. Using descriptive link text instead of click here. You actually have a link that, you know, when you read it, visit the Penn State website, it would be a good description. And then you have form field identifiers for tables and that sort of thing. For people with low vision contrast and longevity is always important. And that is to be kept in mind. Hearing closed captioning things from mobility to keyboard shortcuts are always important. And then for, you know, cognitive reading and learning accommodations, things like simple interface, extended time and so on. And by the way, the visual and hearing accommodations account for about 15% of what's out there. It's the cognitive reading and learning accommodations that people don't think about, but that's what 70% of the accommodations are all about. We don't even talk about those things. We still concentrate on the visual and hearing because that's easier to do. It's just, you know, hey, I need to add this alt text. I need to make sure this table is set properly. Done. A little bit harder with the cognitive stuff. So when you talk about individual, the preferred vernacular is a person with a disability. Try to avoid the words like hin cap, deficient, special needs, crazy wheelchair bound, that sort of thing. So it's just usually good to say, and don't say a disabled person, either say a person with a disability. So way back when we formed this ATI group, we talked about these things called common blockers, and I still think they're important to know. These are the things that you most often see that people haven't addressed, or people haven't addressed these things, I guess is a better way to phrase it. And it's, there they are, headings, link text, tables, alternative text for image, and specific to PowerPoint slide content order. So for headings, I'm going to assume most of you are familiar with styles and use headings and the things you create, whether it's in Word or whether it's in a web page or whatever, you know, each one, each two, each three. So screen readers will pick up on those headings, and they can actually pop up a list like this that you see here that will let them know, okay, the number one heading on this page is about the site, so maybe I should go there first. Quick links, you know, for instance, that might be on a web page where the links are up above the about the site header. And that's fine, it's just, this gives them an idea, what are the top level headings, what are the second level headings, and so on and so forth. It's recommended that you only use each one for the main title of a document, or on a web page it's only used once, and a lot of times the tools we have, snarf that each one and use it in terms of the page title, you can even set something to each one, it starts at each two, which is fine. Each two, use each two for all main headings, then each three, each four, as long as possible. This allows the screen readers to have a hierarchy and then can slice and dice the pages up. And most importantly then, the people using the screen readers can navigate the page quicker and more efficiently. That's what headings are all about. So, what do you think this is a good one, and I was like, where do you think the headings are on this page? This is Penn State. It shows up three different ways. Okay, so let's start. What do you think is each one heading on this page? The lower this is Penn State. The one under the pictures? No. The one right under the pictures. Right under the pictures. Yeah. How about each twos? The one in the lavender line. Yeah. I would say that's probably correct. And then each threes. There's an each threes there. See also. Could be, could be. So imagine this page is, and I'm not saying this page is good, better or ugly. This page, when we look at it visually, we can grasp it immediately and we can jump in 20. But pages like this that are visually complex with different columns and things like that, you really have to think through, if I were to close my eyes and have this read aloud to me, what's the first thing I'd want to hear? What's the second thing and so on and so forth? And that's kind of a rule of thumb. Now, for simpler pages, like most Word documents, pretty easy. You have a title on the down title page, and that's each one. And then you have your main headers and those are which twos. It flows straight down on web pages. You're bouncing from side to side and so on and so forth. So it's a little bit tougher. So in terms of Microsoft Word, there is a building table of contents generator and it goes into great detail in that handout that I pointed out about how to set it. I just want to point out a few things that seem kind of weird. You're going to actually go in and modify whatever example you choose. You're going to modify it and you're going to uncheck that each one because each one should be the title of the document and you generally don't want the title of the document to appear in your table of contents. And then you make each two the first level, each three the second level and so forth. When you do that, if you use the building table of contents generator, screen readers know how to read that table of contents and it's greatly facilitates individuals jumping from page to page to page. And in fact, if you set the table of contents up and say, hey, I want these to be hyperlinks, so I want someone to go to the table of contents and say, okay, page 30 is section five, click. Works great for people that are using screen readers as well. So keep that in mind. Like I said, in the hands-on session, we actually go and build this thing but it takes about 10 minutes. So I'm not going to do that today. But it is detailed in the handout. So as far as formatting text, the good idea is to keep it 11-point or bigger if you can. Now that's on a Microsoft Word document. That's not as big a deal anymore because you can zoom the screen in and out. And same on most websites, you know, plus or minus the font size. But font color, don't use it for meaning. And this is true for people that are low vision and people that have excellent vision because different colors mean different things in different cultures. And what you think might be red is danger. Korean don't think that means heavy. So you got to try not to use it to impart meaning. It's okay for aesthetics but not for meaning. You also should have a strong contrast between the foreground and background. You know, for example, right here, we have black text on a white background. That's probably about as good as you can get. It is recommended that you use the strong style of Microsoft Word as opposed to bolding. That can be a real pain. However, you can, if you do an advanced search and replace on a document that already has everything bolded, you can replace bold with the strong style throughout the document with one file script. So it's kind of nice to know. It takes a little bit to get used to to use that strong style, but that's just a recommendation. It doesn't kill the screen reader, but it does read it a lot a little bit better. So try to avoid italics. I'll show you examples of all these things. All caps drop caps in WordArt. You should avoid them because the screen reader doesn't read them because they're graphics. But if you have to use it, take a screenshot of it and then add it back into the document as an image and add the appropriate old text behind it. I know it's disgusting to do that, but that's what they recommend that you do. All caps. If it was an acronym or something, you'd have to be in all caps. Absolutely. It wouldn't read it? Absolutely. It'll read it. It'll read it, but there are some times where it will read each individual letter. So it's an acronym. That's exactly what you want. So you were like, all notes should be blah, blah, blah. It's like A, L, L, I see that. It could do that, yeah. So when you create your bullet in a number of lists, one of the common things people do is like, I don't like the space between the bullets, so I'm just going to add an extra return. Don't do that. Use the build in paragraph stuff to shrink or grow the space between because what happens is it will read something like unordered list begin, bullet, blah, blah, blah, unordered list end. Unordered list begin, bullet, blah, blah, blah, unordered, instead of unordered list begin, bullet, bullet, bullet, unordered list end. Makes sense? Yeah. Don't include critical information in the headers and footers because sometimes the readers don't pay that much. So we'll just go through these real quick. Bad and good example. So try to keep as much contrast between foreground and background as you can. So try again, try to avoid those drop caps and the word art. And again, if you have to use them or you want to use them, that's fine. Just take a snapshot of them, put them back in as a true graphic image and add the old text to them. What kind of, what would a good alt text example be of drop text? I would have it read exactly what is read there. Drop cap. That's what I put it for. For beta. For beta. Just drop cap. Yeah. I would have the alt text be word art example. So it reads it all out. So it's just assuming that you were only using drop cap or word art for books. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I said, you know, just the white space, don't add extra returns between the two list items. Yeah. So people, they have to choose to read the headers and footers. So you really shouldn't include important information. These are things like the page numbers and what we want to use it for. Not footnotes or that sort of thing. So let's talk a little bit about vague link experience. So here's a good one. We've all seen this. And screen readers can pull up a list of all the hyperlinks on a page. And if you have click here on the page 20 times, this is what you're going to see. So don't use click here. Try to use some other type of more descriptive links here. So they call that the information send and screen readers can jump to the link. So here's what it looks like with screen reader. If a screen reader person using a screen reader would pull up this list of links and, you know, have the screen reader allowed. That's what that would be. That's what might be on a typical page. What's read to them. So they're seeing click here, here, here, read more. Read more. They have no idea where that link is taking now. So try to avoid those. Try to, you know, try to minimize the use of HTTP colon slash, slash links. You can't always do that because if it is a document that is meant for printing, right, you have to include the full one. And some people will do that like say, please visit the Penn State homepage. And parentheses don't put the URL. There's no hard rule there. But, but just think about what you're doing. If it's a, if this is something that, you know, people are going to experience on the web. It's probably okay to not include the HTTP colon full address, but just have a link. So here, audience participation again. Pick one of those and give me a couple, a couple of, give me 30 seconds here and then we'll do some shout outs on how we could make this better. And for the folks that are online, it'd be great if you chime in too via chat. I probably just hyperlinked the whole assignment one instructions. I'd say that would be great. I'd say that would be better. Can you think of, can take it one step even further than that? I know this is totally out of context, but if you were to add something in between assignment one and instructions, what would you add? The lesson that it's coming from? Yeah, or maybe what assignment one is, you know, paper on such and such. So at least they know that. Anybody do the second point? I just hyperlinked a list of recommended books on accessibility. Great. How about the last one? Anyone take the last one? List of readings about captioning best practices. It seems long, I know, but it's, I'm big on making sure you know where you're going. Yeah, I think that's fine. How we get rid of the click here. Two and just have a, see a list of readings about captioning best practices. Excellent. You guys are all still. Anybody online? No? Okay. So in terms of visual elements, you want to avoid floating objects in Word. Most of the times when you, when you add a new image, or you copy and paste an image in it, it goes in line, which means, you know, if you put it in between two words, it goes in between theirs. And if you, you know, move the paragraph around the image moves with it. But you can set an image to float, which means it just, it's on a different layer. It's up above the text, you know, the text can, you know, the text around with the image stays there. Screen readers can bonkers with text. They have no idea when they're supposed to read it. They don't know where to, you know, it's shot. They have no clue. So try to avoid that. And most of the time you have to, it used to be that they would come in as floating images. And you said, nowadays they come in as inline images and you have to deliberately go and make them floating. So I think you're okay for most of the time. And we use the alt text on cap in captions. So let's take a look at that. So if you ever had this experience where, for whatever reason, graphics weren't appearing on the web page or you haven't turned off or anything. So this is pretty much what people experience that are using screen readers. If they don't have alt text, they haven't out. So there, that's a highly visual image, but they have no clue what those different images are. There's just no, there's absolutely no way of looking at that to know. So alt text or alternative text, that's what's read to the viewer if an image is, is on the screen or it's was like you should add. There are some systems out there that will automatically add alt text when you upload an image. And it will just have the, it will be the image filing, which is probably worse than anything else. Cause it's like, you know, how you all see this image and they have like numbers in them and it's like, what the heck is that? No clue. I think about Twitter when you create your alt text, try to keep it to 125 characters or less. And you can do more with Twitter, but try to get 125, 140 characters or so. If you do more than that, that should go either immediately before immediately following the image in the body text that everyone can see and read. Try to describe the relevant parts, that should really be relevant parts of the image. Try to, try to describe the relevant parts of the image and don't go crazy like that one we heard where it said, the image is such and such and says long or such, who cares? You know, that's, that's irrelevant. Don't include that. Also, cause, you know, we're all in education. Think about what is the educational purpose of that image? Why is it there? And that's the important thing to highlight. If you have a gratuitous image that's just there to make it look pretty like a flower or something like that. You can put a single space in the alt text and the screeners will skip over again. They won't even acknowledge it exists. So, yeah. Just a single space. Yeah. A single space where? In the alt text field. Yeah. Yeah. So, as far as alt text, don't, don't include the credits there. Don't include snarky comments. Don't include details that everyone needs to say, put them in the body of the, of the, of the page itself. And all text is, there's kind of an art to writing it takes a little bit. So it's always good to have two or three people go back and forth on a little bit. But the bottom line is, if you're trying to describe something over the phone, how would you do it? That's a good rule of thumb. Isn't it also, you shouldn't say photo. You shouldn't say any job or photo while burning that kind of stuff. That's irrelevant. Yeah. Exactly. So it's any job, any job. Yeah. So here, what do you think is the best alt text? Well, it depends what's important. I mean, if you're teaching, is it made up or what they looked like? Good. Okay. Then you'd use sat six, but if it was like, if it was like an art design class or something like that or, or a media design class. I'd say four. Yeah. So imagine this is on a, a sales site where you can go purchase something. Yeah. Because that's why those images are there to let us know if they take those cards. Exactly. Exactly. Number one is what happens in a lot of, a lot of systems when you just upload the image. If that was the name of the image, it just throws it in there. I didn't tell you a darn thing. Number three is snarky. I like that. I thought about writing a spy novel where the spies were communicating via alt text in their images. That would be interesting. Yeah. So four is probably the best one. Five credit card logos or something. That doesn't really tell you anything. Okay. There's credit card logos, but why are they there? So good. And that's probably the one I would have done. That's what I would have done. Yeah. Right. I mean, just because that's what it is. Describing the image. Yeah. Yeah. Try to describe the image in the context of it. And why it's there. Why is it there? Yeah. So just take a minute here and take a look at this. So the text on the left there, that's the visible caption that's either below or right beside the image itself, not the alt text. What will alt text when you create for this image? And let's put it in context. Let's say that you are, you're in an art class that's, you know, investigating Chinese pain techniques over the ages. Okay. So, but what's up here? This is, this is the caption that appears forever long. Well, how would you describe that image with just the alt text? A group of birds are attempting to eat. Fruit that's on a tree. Okay. I don't know what specific bird that is. That's pretty good. Yeah. I mean, that gives at least gives people an idea of what the image is, what the artist was trying to impart in the image, which is, you know, the birds on the branch share with some fruit. Checking it out. Trying to think about eating. Great. Like I said, if we went around, if I, you know, when we do this in the class, actually, people ready to compare it and get ready. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's pretty good. I mean, people already done and compare it and get radically different things, but the law always happens is after you do that, you're like, I like the first part of yours and the third part of yours, and they put it together. And so I do hardly recommend, unless it's super simple images, that you'd run by at least one other person and say, Hey, what do you think of this? Or what would, what you were going blind and say, what alt text would you write? And then maybe hang a lot of a little bit. Okay. So that's that for that. And then for accessible tables, most Microsoft Word tables are okay to start with. They come in, they have table headers, but you do need to add a caption. And you shouldn't merge cells ever. I know we're all tempted to do that, but you shouldn't merge the cells. You can do very clever things with the coloring and things like that to make cells that are, don't have anything in them. You can do things like, for example, notice how I have dashes in those. That's what you're supposed to put into a cell that's technically empty. But let's say that the cell background was white, you could put a dash in there and make the dash white. So for people that can see it, it's an empty cell, but the screen readers, when they come to it, they see that dash and they know that dash is there and they'll skip over that cell. All columns, label all columns with table headers, so Microsoft Word, I haven't found a way to not do that, but for new versions of Word, it just, it does create table headers for them. I'm a new place to, you know, the dash is fine, or if you want to place an n slash a like so, I would place the dash. I think that's what we were talking about. Ian, so what's, what's missing from here in this table? Anything else? Yep, there's no caption. Okay, so that's just what you can see. So using this table, find the Welsh word for black. Got it? Okay. Okay. Now, consider this for person with a visual impairment and this table hasn't been optimized yet. This is how it will be read. So that's why it's super, super important to make sure that you have table headers and you do a few other things for it. So now the table headers are used. Find the Welsh word for white. Again, not too hard for us, but look how the, look how the screen reader is going to read the black and white rows there. Makes a lot nicer, doesn't it? You know, it's red as if you didn't need a table. And in fact, some people will tell you if you don't need to use a table, if you can do it presented in an alternative form, like a bullet list or something like that, don't use a table. That's the recommendation. I mean, I like tables and sometimes I think they're just super useful, but if you can do it without a table, great. If you are going to use a table, make sure that you do have the table headers set and a couple of other things that I showed you and adding captions. I mean, most of the stuff you can like click on a table and word and get the caption thing and type it in. So what's wrong with this table? No headers. Yep. Tight on the caption. Yep. So there's some sorts of stuff going on about that. What does that look familiar? Right? Yeah. That's why I put it in here. I don't like that all the time. So videos should be captioned. I think that's just, that's the basic rule of thumb. And so I've been doing the office to 65 stuff there. There is. First of all, I know that we're doing work on counter and that's coming. I don't know when you can hear it from it, but we also have Microsoft stream now, which is part of the 365 project. And streams pretty cool in that it on. So the bad thing about stream is that it's only an intranet solution. People outside of Penn State will not be able to do this and what we're destroying. You can't get around that. But the neat thing is it does auto captioning and it does a pretty decent job. If you throw something up there and ask it to auto caption it, it will throw up the captioning list and you can go and add it in. So maybe something to think about in the future. And then ideally, bringing the outline from word of PowerPoint. Nobody does that. That's the ideal. But I put it in there because it's recommended. Do add a presentation transcript to the slide notes pain. So whatever you were, if you were to present this live and whatever you're going to read aloud, put that in the presentation transcript because the screen wears will read that part aloud. You know, unless you put video in the caption and that kind of stuff. Do use content placeholders like the built in stuff to insert charts, graphics and text, don't copy and paste stuff in. They tell you how to do that. You're supposed to use a content placeholder and add the image or whatever into the content placeholders. Those are just rock, rock pasting. Do create the slide masters if you need them. And I do want to show you a couple of things. I'll show you some of the stuff I talked about, but I want to show you the slideshow. I'm going to show you the selection of visibility pain. To work content on a slide because that's something people, unless you've seen it, you're like, all right, I want to go into that. I don't think we're going to all. It's a horrible slide way too much stuff on it, but try to avoid anything that's like automated, on the slide, transmission, transition transitions, complex stuff. So, you know, those texture backgrounds or red and green stuff. Yeah. Okay. So, let me just go one more slide here. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to bounce out here because I want to go out to a PowerPoint here. Yeah. Let's just go into the PowerPoint. I was just showing you. You know, I'm going to go ahead and show you the slideshow. Let's just go into the PowerPoint. I was just showing you. Let's take a look here. Make sure I can. Here. So, I want to show you how you can arrange the stuff on the slide in the correct order. So, you go to your home tab and go to arrange. The way down at the bottom is the thing called selection pain. If you don't remember that, I can always take you to help selection pain. I'll show it to you. But what this is doing here, this brings up this little pain here. And this is showing me, and this is a reverse order. So the thing in the bottom is actually red first. If I click on that, I can see what's red. Then that's second and that's third. Now that is indeed exactly what I want. But let's just act and click and drag these things around. Excuse me. So let's say for whatever reason, I wanted the title read first. I wanted whatever all text I attached that image read next. And then I wanted that text read last. That's how you do it. So it goes bottom up. And you can reorder things. And most of the time, if you're using default templates, the order is fine. But if you go and add like an extra thing in there, something like that, you might want to, for whatever reason, you might want to go in and make sure that it's reading in the correct order. What happens if you make a PDF of your PowerPoint? So we're going to talk about PDFs, but no, that's okay. The recommend, first of all, it's recommending WPDFs. That's crazy because I really use them. But the recommended process to do that is to optimize your Word document, or your PowerPoint document first, and then create the PDF out of that. And it will be better. It still won't be as good. What we started doing in our shop is when we have a document that's available, we'll create it in Word first, and we'll put that up on our site, and we'll say, this has been optimized for accessibility. Then we'll create the PDF, and we'll say, this one's optimized for printing. So that people can choose which one would they get to the site. I'm going to print this. Okay. Use the PDF. It's formatted exactly. You're not going to have to worry about headers bouncing or bleeding monitoring, any kind of stuff. Okay. Okay. So that's, I mean, that's basically what I'm going to show you with PowerPoint. Everything that I talked about was really for Word, but it was all for PowerPoint. This is the one unique thing in PowerPoint, is the slide order, and also creating new slide masters and using them, in case you want to create a three column slide master. It's better to do that and use the master that it is to just keep adding a column on it, two column slides. I just recommend that the readers pick up on it better. Is that because you can set the selection in the master and then it's just set for all of them. You don't have to kind of do it every single time. Yeah. So is there anything that we talked about that you want me to show you? Because I can go and, I mean, we have time. I wasn't sure I'd have enough time here, but I mean, I can show you stuff in Word as well to, you know, for example, I guess I could go and show you a table of contents. So. See here. Click there. Yeah. I believe it's under here. I can find it here. I haven't created anything here for a while. So. What the table of contents is. I've practiced this on my Mac this morning, but I want a PC. Can you just, is there a way to search for it? I'd like to know how to. Yeah. I feel like every update to the hired woman. There it is. Where it is. Yeah, it doesn't should be where it is. Yeah, it should. And it should be written here. So. Design. Sure. Sure. There it is. That's intuitive. That's real. Remember. So. All the way over here. Oh yeah. I'm having a hard time seeing it. Yeah. Sorry. Okay. So here's, here's what you would do here. Here and say, I'm going to be accustomed to your contents. And then let's say that, yeah, I like that because of the, you know, the look of it. That's funny. And anything like that. You get in here. Just. Take that out. Change this to a one. Three to a two. Two. To a three. Okay. Okay. And so that is actually creating table contents based on the styles that I've already added here. I added different heading levels down throughout the document. And the screen readers will read this. Correctly. And if you created this by hand, if you'd like typed executive Sunday, that's what it's going to read. So if you don't want to do that, the nice thing about this is for the table of contents, if you, you know, let's see you add something in proper style. You can always come in here and, you know, right click on this and update the update. Let's say update or update your table. And I'll just automatically update it for you. So it's a really, it can be a real time saver if you use it. And, you know, like I said, this is all based on the fact that I wouldn't be here. You know, I mean this a particular style. And I mean these, all of these are all H two. And this wasn't each one, which I had styled according to, you know, the way that I wanted to style. Scroll down through here. And here's an interesting thing. This was brought in from Excel. And if you wanted to add alt text to this, which you should, if you click on inside or like that, this will highlight everything. And you can't really add the old text to it. You kind of, so for an image, you bring it from Excel like that. You kind of got to go out and find some blank space and click on it there. It'll highlight the whole thing. And then you can right click on it. I can insert a caption if I wanted to. And notice how word is pretty nice and it knows what the order is that your images are in the document. So, you know, you can decide you want the dash or whatever. Figure one is probably, you know, whatever that will do. Do that. I can always click here. And click on that. This is where you can check to see if it's floating or not. So it is in line with text, which is what you want. So, that's good. Let's see here. Finally. So if you go down on that very bottom choice, this is super intuitive, folks. You get out of that bottom choice and then you go over this incredibly intuitive icon and click on that. And that's where you actually have the alt text. I definitely, I'm glad we had time. I wanted to show you that. I wanted to say go on alt text, but you don't know how to do it. And oddly enough, you can put something in the title if you want to, but you don't really need to. Word will read what's in your description. That's where you should have the alt text. You don't have to. I mean, if you want to do overkill, you can put something in the title, but you can't read it. So in this case, I might put something in here, but this chart defines the most popular training sessions. And that's probably where I would leave that. And I would add some information underneath the chart that listed 9% to this, 10% to this. I would list that in the body of text. It takes a little bit more space, but you can't really do that in alt text because you'll have way too much. You just want to read it out well. Whereas if you put it underneath the image in this particular case, this is a pretty visually complex image. I had a lot of data in it. That's what I would do with that. Same for that one. This one is, again, go a bit great, click on it, format the picture, go here, and add your alt text. You can also do the same thing with the table here. So, by the way, don't ever use this draw table. I don't know why I've been told not to ever do that for accessibility purposes. So use this grid here. I'll create that. And then same thing, you can highlight the table. You can do the table properties. You can reserve caption, which is sure you can do table properties. And you can also add alt text for the table. You don't have to do that, but it's not a bad idea either if it's a pretty complex table. And the alt text for images in PowerPoint is pretty much the same as it is in Word, right? So if you throw a picture of PowerPoint, you can right click, format image, and click on the unintuitive icon. Everything's pretty much the same between the two of them, except for that ordering and what things are right on the slide. That to me is the main difference. Once in a while you need to create something that's not... We don't do that on a regular basis. We do add images in. So folks, I know we have about seven minutes. What questions do you have? And that's a lot to cover. Anyone online have any questions? That's great. I thought I knew the stuff, but I learned so many things. I'm going to seriously... I wish I'd known a couple of these things before I did my description, but... Did you take a little time? Did you have to make that accessible? You are given... The university has a template that you have to use. And I'm sure it's accessible. And it uses all the styles and so forth. What I didn't know was that it would have automatically numbered for 25 years. Really nice. And no one made me do all that. Any of my images. Interesting. So the tables would have been in compliance, any images wouldn't have. I know I didn't know to go add all tags. So for the PowerPoints, like that PowerPoint I just showed you, I didn't optimize that accessibility because it was for this group or something like that. Most of the time when we do that, it's if we know we're distributing it. Or if I'm going to present at some sort of conference and I know that they want the media, I'll take the time to optimize the documents for accessibility. So when you're uploaded there, there's no issues. But again, I've never gone to a conference where they've said, please make sure it's optimized. But I think it's kind of value added since we know that we should do it. We should do it. Well, those slides get distributed all over the world once they're out there. They get shared a lot. I think it's a good thing to do. What else you got, folks? Is there anything you've run into? I did have a question. We utilize a lot of charts and graphs relating to like US Census Bureau data over time and for like an image that we saw in the PowerPoint just above, I mean, oftentimes the actual individual numbers are not the items that we're trying to get across. We're trying to explain like the following chart highlights over time the different criteria and how it either population grows or certain statistics. Is that how you would provide all text more like a telephone description of it rather than just like providing data points essentially? Yeah, I think that would be good. And then in the body of the text here in that image, I would try to, since you say here's the trend, I would say this is what we're seeing with this trend. But you know what I mean. This is the analysis that we derive from this chart. Yeah, we're oftentimes bouncing it back and forth between faculty members. I think you highlighted an important part where it's like it's important to get feedback and like to work because what you write might be different than what I'm thinking of and how it all comes together. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, like you might get it all the time we always are expecting each other's stuff and it's become real interesting. It's almost a diversity issue where I look at the world a certain way so I'm going to describe something in a certain way and other people looking to say that I had no idea I didn't understand how you just described that and I would have described this one like, okay, I can kind of see that and then eventually arrive at a consensus that hopefully a broader audience will understand what you wrote. It's tough. Which is a terrible idea. Yes. We have challenges and quiz questions putting all text on because you're trying not to give the answer. So it's been in the describing the image a charter. Right. You're trying to Right, so you're trying to and then hopefully we're going to try to show. Yeah. So we try to just describe them as they were because that in the context of what you're doing makes perfect sense. Yeah. Yeah, it's all about the context and the changes are huge. Yeah, that's all you said. It's been an interesting time figuring all this stuff out and it's just now it's just part of my workflow if I know a document that's going outside of the shop and you're trying to document it. You just say, okay, I'm going to read this out and you're just doing the other thing about it anymore. It's one of us to have it. So, and that's where I hope we all get to because we don't want the National Federation of the Blind to be back on us ever again. That's the right thing to do. That's the right thing to do. Yeah. Well, thanks folks. I appreciate you having me. Thank you. It was fun. Yeah. It's a lot nicer than ours. Thank you. Thank you. I'll let that as is and you can do whatever you want. Okay. New top secret stuff. I appreciate it. Thank you. Anybody in the room, feel free to take some back to your office. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, yes. I'll take care of that for you.