 Hey folks, welcome to the podcast. So we're doing a special series of podcasts which I'm recording over Google Hangouts. So we're doing audio and video because for some unknown reason people don't want to come see me face to face right now. But there's always opportunity and the cool thing is I'm able to now podcast with people from all over the world. So we're going to get an amazing eclectic mix of people from different industries, different perspectives to share their story and tell us, you know, their thoughts and feelings on what's going on right now and all of that cool stuff. Hope you enjoy it. Please subscribe in all the usual places and enjoy. Hey guys, welcome to the podcast. I'm really happy to have Joseph from Project Utopia joining me today. How are you doing? I'm good, man. I'm good. This is a crazy time. You know how it is. Again, we just started recording early on that list just to get a show on the road, you know. This is exclusive for me. First podcast been featured in all the Telegraph and Forbes and like I said and production of documentaries in Africa. But this is my first podcast that I'm not hosting or been in hosting of and I'm keen to discuss and hopefully hopefully my brand director don't kill me. Definitely. It's very different being on the other side than Mike as well, isn't it? You're like, asking questions is easy because you can just hide behind the question and you've got to answer because I've asked you the question. It's fun. I like it. I pivoted to also video cast as well, given the lockdown and stuff. So how are you being at home and stuff? You know what? It's a bit of a mix back. We're in a really weird paradoxical kind of environment right now. I for one, I've run it interesting and weird. You might get some bings on me. It's one of these weird things that the isolation is causing productivity which is causing more at home. And I suppose you're living with people in a new environment which can both be beneficial and detrimental. And it's just understanding what isolating really is. And it's a weird one. It's just a unique time and it's a really, really difficult place out there in the world at the moment. And my wishes go with everyone. I've recently lost someone and it's suspected COVID. So yeah, it's impacted everyone's lives. But I think that there's going to be a big change for humanity at the end of it that maybe this is what humanity needs to come together and unify our thinking, I suppose, and be more kind to each other. And that's where I birthed it. I mean, we'll get onto that, I suppose. Yeah, that's true. It's funny, right? Like Mother Nature is very humbling. She's basically told us like stay in your room for... I'm going to sort myself out because you've been polluting me for God knows how long which looks really nice into what you guys are up to. And there's nothing you can do about it, right? You're just sitting at home and we'll get let out when we get let out. And in the meantime, there's less pollution. I live in London and it's cool. It's got less cars on the road and it's quite nice, actually. It's just not... Do you know what it's like? Obviously, we get into it, but I build houses that stay reversible change. But in principle, it's more efficient than planting trees, that's where I meet a building unit. And I've been in the forefront now for, I suppose, the last week of climate change and what we've been doing. And it's it's weirdly refreshing to go outside in London and have space and be out of breath. And it's again, it's just a weird, it's like bringing it upside down, you know, it's a bit mean. It's crazy. It's crazy. How have you adjusted then? You sound like quite, you know, extrovert. You like being around people, I guess. I mean, how have you found like having to adjust to working from home? I suppose I'm one of these like, you know, it tries back to, I suppose, what generation you are in a sense. I clarify people kind of like, if you were born in 1990 and 2000, like a bit of a golden generation where we had the adaptability to our social, real social introduction and an upbringing where, you know, in technology, it wasn't taking over our lives, but we've adopted and grown up with it. So in my world, I'm kind of like, I can do the joke thing in person, but hell, I can do it behind a computer too. So I suppose it's really easy to adapt with things. And I'm finding it quite an interesting dynamic to be able to kind of have these discussions with people in a new way. And I ain't got nowhere to get dressed up all the time, which is dope, because I hate the architect of having to wear suits and all that. I've wore a pretty shirt for now, but it's nice to be able to dress up as a leader. You're actually like founder and leading a company. And suddenly, you know, your employees are at home. Have you got about adjusting your leadership style to keep everyone engaged? It's been a madness. We were like hyper scaling. So we were, you know, you hear their terror story with hyper scaling and what detriment that can cause in a business. Can you imagine hyper scaling and then having to scale back immediately whilst the demand for our product goes through the roof? Wow, you're going to use 120,000 houses. They need to be smarter. They need to be more pure. They need to be greener. They need to be better performing. And we take all those boxes. So it's like it's the management side of it all. I've really had to adapt to understand operational process needs to be in place. You've still got to inspire people, but you've still got to get the work done. And that is a very unique mix. I think we'll come out of this like with a whole new way of thinking and how you get the best out of members. We've just introduced a program at the moment, which is like free online, early online. We're like encouraging everyone, like, hey, look, we as a company, we'll help that, you know, we'll work towards that because we want you being the best you. So when you come out of this, we can be the best collective together as a team. And it's just a weird one. Again, it's like, it's one of these like, I suppose it's such a unique role. It's such a unique environment. And you've just got to ride the wave and strategizing. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Are you doing like daily Zoom calls and all of that kind of stuff? Consent, man. Consent. Another thing, we migrated. I'm a Google head. You originally allowed driving stuff. And because of innovation technology we're working on as a program, we had to move over to an ERP system. So we ended up moving off to Microsoft, but we moved over to the whole Microsoft suite for the whole company as the lockdown happened. Oh, wow. So that's been a, I was doing Google, then I'm teams and now I'm teams and there's all sorts. So it's been a bit of a, that again in itself has been a bit of a mad transition. But you know, every day is phone calls, video conferencing, you know, try to get a workout in the back garden when I can, myself and some good Nick. I'm currently vegan. I have been for a while now, you know, I've been vegan now for about almost six months. What was the same driver? Got to fight a good fight. I've always been conscious of one calorific intake and your body's ability to digest me. I'm a learner, like I like to learn, like I have no formal qualifications. I'm self-taught, but I'm like thermodynamics, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, gaming engines. I just learn online, right? So I've always been an eye on like, what is nutrition? And I've always understood that as much as I love the steak, actually, what impact does it have on the digestive system? And then what impact does that have on the planet, you know? And so I met with a really cool guy called Simon Howard, Steve Howard, sorry. And Steve Howard with the Ikea Span Bidraker and he was leading this charge on carbon zero campaign, you know, we're working with it in the UN initiative and stuff now, but it was, he was going to go like Mars, sand up and stuff. And I met him and he explained to me the full carbon impact and the stuff you don't see, the stuff that you don't hear about. And I was like, wow, so I went to the criterion for a bit and then I learned more about fish farming and how that's causing disease and et cetera, et cetera. And now I've become a drug chef because you have to when you're a vegan, but it opens your palate up somewhat and your nutrition goes through the roof. The whole misdemeanor of, hey, you know, you can't get the nutrition while I'm nonsense. You know, I've got more vitamins in my body than I've ever had and I'm healthier than I've ever been. So you just, it's just not being lazy. Like, can you notice like you actually feel better on it? Without a doubt. Your body's ability to process meat, if it's red dense meat, can take up to an hour. With vegetables, 15 minutes, depending on how you cook them, it's no more than 20 minutes, right? 25 minutes. You know, people, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a biologist. But from readings and from understanding the knowledge, I'm also, I'm suffering from autoimmune condition, imagine going to that as well. But that little drop down week for my guys. So what I've got now is my body is cleansed all the time. So like constantly I can graze and eat and it's like cleaning itself out and you feel lighter, you feel better, you eat when you need to eat. You don't set this free meal the day. You don't need five fruit and veggie. You know, five fruit and veg, all right, go eat five bananas a day. Probably got too much potassium. Like you go have five pineapples. That's a lot of pineapple. You got a lot of sugar. It's about just eating when you're going to need to do. And what I've learned being a vegan is you then get practical with your materials, you know? And so I'm like cooking in a way I've never cooked before. I'm preparing food and we have never prepared before. My meals are taken half, you know, half the time because I can't bang myself and leave in any fresh preparing our food and you find yourself enjoying food a lot more. And then, you know, you don't have to worry about, you know, you're having an impact on putting the world on fire because you're creating methane outputs or, you know, you're killing baby chicks' eggs. Apart from that stuff, I mean, certainly now, right, with the virus, I mean, a lot of people are really suffering apart from people who are older, have underlying health issues, right? Obesity, diabetes, like all of those kind of things. So, I mean, eating well, whether it's vegan or eating cleaner than one would normally, regular exercise could sleep just gives you such a better chance of fighting off these viruses, diseases and stuff. And for me also, it's just, I eat pretty clean. I'm not vegan, I eat really clean. Most of its vegetables and stuff. I do a lot of exercise. More now, I'm not down than ever. And it's just so good for my mental health as well. You know, loads of different things going on. You just think really clear. It's important to do. Yeah, exactly, man. Exactly. Again, I think this time it's been creating dynamic for humanity. And you'd be surprised that the health benefits, you know, that healthier living, you realise your body's got a fight, a good fight. You know, you can't believe in any but all the time, what if they're anti-glycate, you know, all of a sudden, you know, you're right on there because they don't exist yet. And our body now has to take a burden, stress, and so we need to keep it in as good, good a shape as possible. It doesn't mean being OTT, but it does mean not growing any in a hamburger every day because it's quick and easy. It does mean thinking about your impact. And also, be conscious, you know, the world's on fire because of us. And we've got to think, how do we, how do we just make managing in our life that don't affect us, that are more around self-need, you know? Do you have to go on eating fast food? Do you have to go on eating every day? Or do you just want it? And maybe we think about what we want and what people need and that means you're kind of human. If you're kind of human, we all want to get along. And then we can go for a beer and a beer garden when all this is over and have a lot. But, you know, there's not being much consumerism and gluttony-based things as we, I mean, we've learnt this, you know, we've seen it. I really love our generation's take on this, you know, whether it's Greta or whether it's David Attenborough or whoever it is, you know, they're showing that we can't, we can't do that. But we give a fuck. And that's the rules. Yeah, yeah. Well, you can see, like, it's great. Like, you see, like, there's deer in Essex, dolphins in Venice, dolphins in Malaga. I mean, even, like, what, four, five weeks of just humans chilling out a little bit, nature's starting to get back into the places that they, that they used to occupy. Yeah. And, you know, if anything, this doesn't take away from the damage that is being brought to society. It actually makes us wiser to it. It makes us look at it like, holy shit, man, people are suffering. And if we did just take stock of what we do together, and we were a little bit more of a community, then we would be in a better place right now. And if, you know, there is the NHS and the key workers that are doing the fight and the good fight on the front lines, and I hope there's companies like us that are starting up in hyper growth that can help excel that pick up on the back of it. But we know the bad's going on and it's good to take stock of it and realise you can make changes in your life day to day. I mean, that's funny. We've got to live with ourselves more than we've ever had to. We know it's important in our own behaviour. And I think that's quite, and I think that's going to really, you know, you open your eyes because you've got to live with yourself. You realise you're a bit of a nightmare to live with on yourself, then you might realise you might need to be a bit of an easier person to be around. Do you know what I mean? I think with the self-enlightening environment we're in, but unfortunately it's come off the back of something so harsh and devastating. So it's just, again, it's a weird paradoxical time that we've been lasering. It's a funny one. I just wonder whether in the past Covid era, whether us humans will learn from it, or we're going to get crack on back to, you know, like growth, growth, growth, consumerism, you know, all of that kind of stuff, because you can kind of see it going either way, right? Well, yeah, and I think it is the policy makers that are going to make these decisions. We're noticing a trend at the moment that we've got, you know, we're getting to what I kind of do, but we know it happens, as an, I mean, as an ecotech company, you know, we're energy construction, intelligent technologies, we're not a real estate company, we're a prop tech company with energy construction, intelligent technologies, and we're noticing across the board, implementation and uptake of new policy, and that will reflect on how we come out of, because if they lay the groundwork now that says coming out of this, well, you can't just capitalise, it will then set a trend of the way we live forward. If those things don't happen, then we're going to be in a position where things go back to normal. And I think it's, and we're noticing it's happening, you know, we're agreeing, we're in the lead of some of these decisions and groups of people that are coming together to make the fight that I could fight, you know, off the end of this, and then step new standards and step new programmes to set new policies. Definitely. No, I hope that happens. Go, winding back to you then. So what's your background? So, I have a pretty awful hard background. I was homeless first at 15 years old. I had an alcoholic abuse lover. I had, my mum was sectioned when I was 15 years old. We've met in golf issues, and she's fortunately wonderful, and she recovered taking experiences of the hardships of my teenage life and her sectioning to know work as a key worker, helping people get to work and helping young people get to work. So she's an amazing woman that's kind of done that. But yeah, like it was, it was shit. No, this is all about, so I was ridden from North London, and then I moved out to Essex. I spent a lot of my time in Essex, and I was homeless four times, you know, a couple of sofa surfing, a couple of trips sleeping in a park, a couple, you know, a couple of stays here and there in different places, like you've got like Chess Foundation in Chilmsford and places like that, which give you a roof over your head for the night. And yeah, you know, I was involved in the dark side of life. I was, you know, doing a lot of things that make, you do when you're homeless, you do, you know, there is a certain standard of class of life where recreational ability to recreation is created by things that are street-like. We really are trained about some different, you know, levels of issues and addictions and things like that. And when I was 21 after, I then... Like from 15 to like 20? Yeah, yeah, so like 15 right through to, I don't know, you know, in and out of homes, not homes like often, but like homes as in terms of like places to live and stuff. My mom's in an hospital and we try to get together. There's a part when I was even young, I was in a women's refuge, running away from my dad and things like this. And then it amalgamated and I actually tried to put my back on that kind of dark side of life because I was sick of being caught up in the whirlwind of the street kind of environment and bullshit. And I turned and tried to go on an army. So I didn't have any GCSEs. I dropped out of school and we never really made anything out of schools. We went to multiple, you know, here and there. And I tried to go on an army and then I found a route that was going to be called Quikis. I got one of the highest grades that they'd seen come out of Colchester. My barbed test, they couldn't believe it. My barbed test, which is an acumen test, was off the charts. They were like, we've never seen school that high. And I didn't realize I had the ability to learn like I did, right? And I'm just getting in all sorts of trouble because I've had this life, had no idea that in the back of my brain I've got this ability to pick up knowledge like that. So yeah, went in and then I got a bit of a ruckus, long and story short in Colchester before I went in. And it turns out that I was blinded on the left twice. So when I went into the army, we got a couple of, a few weeks in, and they were who'd be on rifle and all that good stuff on that train. And we realized that I had no peripheral vision on the left side. And they were like, I went in, turns out to see the test behind my retina, medically discharged, homeless again, had nothing coming out of the army and literally had nothing British Legion supported me with enough, with a 1500 pound check. And that was it. And I had to go out alone. And that was when I had a really hard time. I got caught in something that I shouldn't have got caught up. And I had 21 or so attempts down the research. I bought over my mate. He was a Royal Anglin because he dealt with death in Afghanistan. Got drunk, had drinks with him, even though I found a couch. And half of the bottle of vodka because I read on the other half as we were drinking together. And back 36 paint the road and all that was on from my eye. And when I sleep crying to myself and feeling guilty recently, just before that, like a year before that, my uncle committed suicide. It was a difficult time. And then I said goodbye to everyone. And then about three hours later, I woke up vomiting. Projectile vomiting all over myself. My aunt, my mate woke up, dragged me off. I was like, you idiot. Da-da-da, rough for hushed up. He said, I'm up there. Da-da-da-da. And then I was like, well, if I can't do this, then I'd best turn this into something. And that is when the utopia started. And that is when I set my mind to trying to build a better world for people that are in less privileged environments, give them the step up they need. And that amalgamated me into developing these technologies and building an utopia, which is an economic and environmental utopia for the future generations. And I'm proud to say that we're the first company in history to ever build two energy positive build solutions of its kind with intelligence. In the scale we have in the UK, and in the town of Papua, in Namibia, and we're going global. So, you know what I mean? What a great story. What a great story. I mean, I'd say great story. But I mean, the great thing is the way you've gone through all of these tight hardships, and you just grinded through. And then to where you are now, right? I mean, what a brilliant credit man. I mean, it's great. The hardest thing, like, even madder is I ended up getting on this journey and I built a school. And I first built my first school in 2015. I basically partnered with the company. They figured out I could do marvel engineering that I'd learn and come up with this new solution, a way of basically creating energy packs. And I was like, I've got this idea. I can combine energy construction and IoT to build self-sustainable lives of the future and train people in mere hours to build huge-proof, hurricane-proof, energy-productive homes that will last forever. But then I ended up getting screwed over. And then I was living in a townhouse. And then all of a sudden, at the age of, like, 23, I was, I had a really... I had an outbreak of really red aversion of psoriasis. It's not talking to the orthodermis psoriasis trigger. And it covered my body in 90% burns, basically. And I was in hospital for four days. And I lived with that Kim Borkham before I shut my new sister down for four, four, five years. It was developing all this journey. And so, you know, I've had this mad journey. Yeah, I've had this mad journey. But you know what? In pain, you can realize what suffering is. And there's a phrase, a Buddhist phrase with dukkha. And it's the third phrase in this Buddhist principle. And it's suffering is suffering. You know, you can be someone like me and my skin was burning off. And I went for all this pain. But you can have a rich person that walked to the shops and started raining to buy a pack of bags. And they're going to actually get themselves as something that's going to damage your life. But in the end, they're suffering. And we realize that our mind is our capacity. And only by understanding the suffering and suffering, can you enlighten yourself to drag yourself through the hardship. And it's about the knowledge of you're not alone and people aren't. And if you can go help someone, I'm sure that they'll help someone on from that. And if you can create things for people, then hopefully you can come to see your own mind that the suffering is worth it because you may change. And that's where I can thrive from. And, you know, we're smashing it now. So I mean, I guess like the funny, you've gone through such hard stuff growing up, right? That anything you encounter now, it's, you know, you've been in uncomfortable situations more times than, you know, that you can't remember. I can't guide too much here, but I've been in situations where, you know, my life is on the line. And, you know, you're on the street and, you know, and you get these situations, these mad situations occur because it's that side of life. You know, that kind of low side life of, you know, everyone's doing anything to make money and people getting in trouble. And you get caught up in situations and people and you don't really know. And, like, it's mad. It's just a mad, mad thing, you know? And you kind of reflect on it. I'm like, well, what scares me? You know, I can go live in a tent and be in a tent of eight beings, mate. And I'm good. So the purpose is the reason the utopia is called economic and environment utopia is because you don't realise it without economy. Just to wind back a little bit. How did you get to the utopia idea? Yeah, so I wanted to make change, yeah? So I started this, like, music label. Because I was, at the time, when I was, you know, in and out of housing and I had a really good friend, Carl, and I was sleeping on his studio floor from time to time, right? So I just write up music. I did a bit of poetry, you know? I'm not a musician. I'm not a rap artist as much as some people that I think they are. I was like, you know, just in the studio, my boy is like, you know, identifying some keys and that learning production. And I was like, look, man, I think you're doing this wrong. And I come up with that idea and I was like, I think you should be doing this process. And all of a sudden, I started emerging this ability, again, to really retain knowledge and identify strategic process that was always successful. And it amalgamated that I managed to get him his desired clothing company endorsement for free of a company that don't do endorsement. And I started then a media company and I realized that media is everything. And that follows over to Atopia. We do a lot of media shot and maybe a documentary we've got, if documents come out about and I'm at least development about stuff we've done in Asia about what we're doing in America, about. And so I'm very media centric because I like to, you know, give people the story, i.e. here. And I just, and then all of a sudden I was like, you know, this isn't going to make change. But why don't I apply these skills to something, you know? And I remember being a kid and my dad was, when I, before he, whatever. But before the fuckery, if I could say that, sorry. You might have to speak from the top. But yeah, before the madness, he had me doing electrical and mechanical installs and AT engine. So I already had in the back of my knowledge and I didn't realize pretty much knowledge out in the back of my head as a kid. So then I was like, what are you about? I don't know, I look at buildings and I'm like, they're built wrong, right? Because you just fundamentally don't build anything. I look at it and I go like, you're using wrong systems, using gas engine boilers, you're using this, you're using this, why aren't you using AT, why aren't you using SLC pumps, why aren't you using renewable energy as a power source, what's going on? And then I just started studying built environments. I started studying a bit of architecture online. I studied gaming engine design for graphic. I studied thermodynamics, looking into isothermal air compression and how storage is done and the principles of that and how that exists and started learning from people like, there's a guy named John McMorriset, he's like, you know, professor in thermodynamics and he started learning, you know, I realized that fundamentally, I think I've got a solution. I think if I combine energy usage, energy production and energy storage with a construction material with an IoT device, I can make the same building principles on any building type in the world and I can do it in mere hours and it will be the highest yielding asset in the world. So then the utopia method started coming up and I was like, well, what am I trying to do here? I'm trying to build environments and trying to create an utopia. Okay, cool, you can't build a utopia. So I was like, okay, well, utopia is economic, it's environment and what does utopia mean then, John? And I'm like, well, if you think about it, economics, capitalists, right? If you want to make a world-wide round, like that way, you've got to have scalability and affordability. Affordability means all different things all around the world. You've got to have scalability because selling a thousand is not enough. There's a point selling billion, eight billion people or whatever there is on the planet now is going through how do you make impact change? So I was like, cool, scalability and affordability, boom, what's the environment? And then I looked at the environment, sustainability, pay its carbon debt, fortunately, our houses are the equivalent and this is a cool fact. Our houses are the equivalent of taking, planting 2.3 hardware trees per square meter or a mortgage life, it's the equivalent of taking a buying 737 out of the F1861 hours because they're energy-positive. So we basically reverse climate change. And so that's a sustainability angle, cool. But then to understand what's the sustainability, what environment really meant, it's more about the built environment and social adaptability. So I put myself in about 10 round debt when I was living in an office and I went traveling from the Jiangsu province on a budget, I went to the Jiangsu province and I started, I went on Alibaba, yeah. I isolated all these different technologies, so I wanted to learn how people react and what built environments were. So I messaged all these building companies and building material companies and energy providers and solar companies and IOT companies. I translated the Chinese to English on Alibaba. I emailed them, got them all set up on a gender meeting for two weeks and I flew out and traveled to the Jiangsu province going to all the factories and learning about built environments, yeah. Yeah, it was a mad experience. Watching crazy. I realized actually what fundamentally it means then when you look at environment is social acceptability. It meant some people want it smart but some people want it done but they both need technology, right? So they've all got electronics. Some people want it brick but some people want the same building but it's the same building environment, it's the same footprint. So that came to the final point of environment which is social acceptability. So then when I'm developing my energy, construction, intelligent technologies, I always think in my head, it's like, what are they atopian? Are they going to build a circular economy in the end? And are they going to be scalable and affordable? And are they going to be sustainably impactful and are they going to be socially acceptable or versatile? I've been doing that. I've now got a product that's so versatile that I can build any built environment in the world. It'd be the highest building and do it in no time at all. You train six locals to build a superstructure as hurricane proof in three hours in the media. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you gay? Uh, we, well, fundamentally the system can go as high as any conventional system using pods mechanisms but, you know, we go up to six stories at the moment. You know, I've got a vertical sky village that I'm planning in the next few years that will probably be 40, 50 stories. And we're looking at garden communities and garden cities and circular economy, you know. We're looking at taking the waste from people the way we develop with them and reusing the waste, breaking it back down and using our building tools. Amazing. Yeah, man. So we're doing the whole atopia thing and that is atopia, you know. And that's where I've come from. I suppose I'm a bit of a different beast because I'm thinking about things like, the end game is change. And by making change, you fundament a good positive change. Making positive. And taking the principle of my life into consideration, you read the fine things and you do it with the right mindset. You do it for the right damn reasons. And by doing that, you make capital. And that is success. You know, perhaps I'm going to find success by money, somebody who designs success by happiness, somebody who designs success by saving the planet. Fortunately, I've teamed with him in 2003 and that gives me a great sense of pride and a great, just sense of feeling. Do you? It sounds like more than that. Speaking from talking to you that you enjoy the process, right, of, like, you speak so enthusiastically about, you know, going to China, doing the research and then starting to deliver on what you and what you dreamt you wanted to do. So it's great. I mean, it sounds like you found something that really motivates and inspires you. And you just get, it feels like you've got so much energy for it. Yeah, man. And it's another thing as well, like even to the point where, like, you know, I, people, like, usually see success in our environment as, like, vertically integrated. I'm like, you can't do everything, right? So we call it holistically integrated. Why? Yo, you're not the master of all things. If you come together, you get all the best people together with the best intentions. You do get good out of it. You just need some strategy. You just need a good reason. And if the reason to save the planet and if reason doesn't make people happy is if a reason to make people who, like, better isn't good enough, then don't work with us. We want to create change. We want to do good things of people. We want to make people feel proud of what they do. And that is the company's heart. You know, it's, well, tagline's creating community. We're not just a householder. We want to create community. And we've got great people and more people are getting involved. And I want to, you know, we want to spread the message. We want to people, hey, come and come and join this Etopian message, man. You know, government are doing great things right now. That's amazing. You know, we're going to have a difficulty at the end of it. Let's come together. Let's build some cool futures. Let's have energy positive environments. Let's love our homes. Let's love our people. Let's build better schools. Let's just enjoy it. Let's go together as a humanity. Stop killing stuff. And just realize that we as humans have taken up money to just be together. Do you know what I mean? And just be nice to each other. Just be kinder. The world could definitely do this, you know. But I think like, you know, all of that said, I think the silver lining with this pandemic is that there's some great stories of communities coming together. You know, we've got like a local Facebook. Anyone needing help? Just message me. I can drop some food off. There's some... Well, there you don't hear it in the news. There's so many positive stories of people doing things, like manufacturing PPE equipment and like, it's just so much stuff that's going on. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to grab something quickly. My mum's a bit sign, yeah. And it's my... She works in the jobs, like I said, yeah. She's from her, I don't know her life. And she started this group, right? Imagine. Random Acts of Kindness Facebook, yeah. Started this group. One more 5,000 members. Nice. Over that. In a couple. But that's that point. You just said, you know what I mean? It's like, she goes on her jobs and there was people losing jobs. And actually, do you know what? Yeah, the silver lining is, is that we're all going, man. Do you know what? I don't know my neighbour's name. We've never had a chat. And that's a bit weird. And I'm now stuck in this house. And I don't know anyone on the street who I'm not building. Why? And I just think, you know, and I think, again, it comes back to policy programs at the end of this or during this. We've got to say, you know, when you're building these, these future cities and gardens, make sure there's park spaces. Make sure there's enough space for kids to learn. Give everyone a free iPad or a free tablet and give them free access to education. Let them do it at home. They'll learn. It's inquisitive. People are curious to be told when to learn. Let's just let people involved. And I do think that this is a silver lining. Hopefully, you know, it's such a devastating time. Like I lost my, I think, you know, when I was in confirmed as detailed yet, but she had respiratory issues. She went into hospital within 24 hours. She passed the exam. And it's hard. And it's like, you know, with all these individuals, if you consider what would their thoughts be around us becoming a better community because of it? And I tell you what, for me personally, because I can't speak for the world, but for me personally, if it affected me in that way, I would just want to make sure what I left behind was nice, you know? And I think we need to, at people level, at consumer level, at people level as human and at government levels, and at global level, realize we've just got to put aside our differences, you know what I'm saying? And just come together on that. Definitely. But also, the way, the way the cities are designed here and the way that work has been going, it's conducive to like, you leave early, you don't really see anyone in your street. You're in a block of flats, right? But you might never see anyone. You might have, it's no human contact with people that you're living next door to. So it'd be great to see these buildings designed where it encourages people, neighbors to like exist together, become friendly, do things with each other. We are, we're looking at the moment. So we're highlighted, well, I have a camera, just from a production line to 2,000 units. I'm working in some bits in America, I've done bits in Africa. But we're looking at, now it's like, when we look at the program, how is it mixed-use programed? And if you're doing off-marriage, how is it mixed-use, right? My dream is like, everyone lives in an apartment, yeah? Or right in the apartment. If you live in an apartment, everyone lives in an apartment. Bro, I would love nothing more than to go in and walk in and it's got like a whole foods, kind of taste, vegetable, kind of lovely, locally produced food. On the left-hand side, I've got a good work-style, work-working space. I've got a beautiful little restaurant on the top floor with a garden, the garden on top of the restaurant and a hospitality on the top floor. So you go upwards for your hospitality and a bit of breathing air and go on the green space. You go down, as you're building a building, you interact with your people, with the gym, and you become a community, because you're building in these pieces, not just building archaic towns, and we're building landscapes, and communities, make sure that every household has enough space to interact with people. What happened to Digital Campus? What happened? Because we got into our home, we've been isolating ourselves for a very long time, and all the guys says, you know, we're doing work together, we'll sit in mind on a computer, we will not talk, it's like, what happened to these community spaces? What happened to, everyone wants to go big outlets, go shopping, everyone wants to shop online. What happened? And it's like, what happened is, everyone started developing it as if those things were essential. So when you do go down the street, but from any other development, mostly, for the most part, not everyone is involved. For the most part, it's corridors and coldness outside. And it's like, what's going on in the community? Because kids ain't going to play on the road, are they? So let's think, and let's place make, and let's build communities that people want to interact in. If I want to watch Netflix, why haven't I got three days that are like a cost of a year? Why can't I watch Netflix on my iPad in the park? Because then I'm in the park, I'm outside. Why can't we engage in new technologies with old technology? Why aren't we adopting PPP right here and with autonomous vehicles? Because it's not expensive to build infrastructure. And we're at the forefront of that and we've got to build this community. You know what I mean? We've got to, I'm very happy about it as you can tell because I see it every day. That's great. I think this pandemic thing could be just like a big shot of steroids to this trend. It's a trend that's been building steam. And I hope this will really kick it in, kick it like sooner. Because people are going to change the way they work now. Not everyone's going to want to go in five days a week. Some people are going to want to do work from home. So these like environments that you're going to build where you can, you can go out for some air, you can live, you can work but communally. Like maybe you're down in the coffee shop downstairs and you've got John from upstairs, Jamie from over there. You're like, hey, what's up? How are you doing? You do a bit of work? And you don't have any business as well. So every big startup that you ever speak to, they have that community but only for their employees. Can you imagine what would happen if we empower their own communities to be collaborative on efforts and the technologies, and the innovations, and the drive, and the ethos, and the passion that would come from from Joanna and Josanna, whatever, talking to Pete and David downstairs, having a coffee because they live in the same building. Why choose the green building? Curiosity feeds the mind and will become and start discussing things, you know? It's true. Because even though, I mean, people talk about work from home and things like that, but we're still like, we're still, we're still like social animals. Like you, people just need human contact. What does it mean? Do you have anything to add? Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Just going back to your, like, starting your business, because I'm interested, like, you hear, obviously, you were from a, like, a low social economic background to start, and I speak to a lot of people and sometimes they miss, like, the ability, or just, they don't dream big enough, often. And it's quite hard to get over that. I mean, and you've done that great. I mean, what was the toughest bit? Like, I guess you had to raise cash. How did it all go? Not, you know what it was? The hardest bit was getting off the ground. The hardest bit, you know, I don't think there was a hardest bit. I think, I think there's been a hard moment, you know, I mean, we have, I had one of the best mentors in Lord Stanley, he think, basically a mutual friend of ours, rest his soul, Philip Francis passed away. And he's very close. He's a very close friend of mine. And we've been to each other, and Lord thing knew him, and I know Ringo is far from very well now. And I, we would, I was talking with Philip about, or my business was going about how I'm building the school, and I'm at again, and he was, he was shooting me in a way. And unfortunately, when he passed, I was like, well, I'm not going to speak to his family, like I'm, you know, in that manner, you know, if we are friends, this is, it's not a business thing. About a year later, after the passing, I got a phone call from a mutual, friend and was like, look, how come you haven't spoken to Alex with anything? And I was like, well, because, you know, I didn't really feel that difficult. He's my mate, I'm not, that's not, that's just not being the bones, you know, it's not my DNA to capitalize like that. It's just not me. And he was like, look, do you remind me of raising a medium? I met Alex, Alex was like, mate, do you know what, I didn't get all of it, and I don't think anyone needs to eat to this data, by the way, but what you're saying, if it works out me, you can be onto something gold here. I met Stanley think, and Stanley was like, I'm going to be on the edge of what you plan to, and your goals, and your dreams, and your vision, Joe, you'll be a very, very, very successful human being. And he, at the time, imagine me, I'm very fast now, right? And I take my time at certain things, but, and I've become very educated, and I'm not, I'm not, right? But imagine me, I was like an untapped fountain of knowledge. Yeah, there was on a hydro, max five, all the time, right? So they, we had to finesse that a little bit, and he raised, I've always saw the potential, continue to support me, help me buy the first site, and that became a part of the vision of the 2015 campaign, which is, it's now the highest performing site in Britain, built with the pace, and we averaged our house every three days in the superstructure, and they're all, we broke the EPC ratings, you know, EPC on a fridges, we broke it, we got 105 out of 100, just smashed it on one of the buildings, and then through, again, a mutual contact that Lord think, I put me in touch with, I met with, Deborah Rubin, one of the most wonderful women, and it was through mutual friend Luba, another wonderful woman, and they were working Luba, and Deborah Rubin, were working and discussing around a charity project that they wanted me to be involved in, and I met Deborah, and Deborah had it about my life, and she's like, Joe, wow, like, what the, this is insane, and this is real, and then I met, you know, the family members, and one of them, I put a whole, a whole very dearly, I don't want to drop human names, but one of them a very dearly started, like, coaching me, and was like, a little bit more, and was like, Joe, you know, you're not a star up here, you know, we need to get into the crux of this, and I met David Rubin, a wonderful man, and the family further, and I got to know the family more, and then they supported me, and obviously the Rubins are one of the most successful families, history, and now between, you know, the Rubin family, the Think family, I have knowledge, and experience, well beyond my own years, and I take time to listen to them, all of the Thinks, and all of the Rubins, you know, I'm very close friends with all of the Thinks, the Sons, and very close, I like to think with the Rubins, and that support has enabled me to capitalize on my goals, and it's accelerated it all, proving things like I did in Namibia, and the UN are recognizing and being featured in the UN's 75th anniversary I.C.E. book, so I, and it's weird because like, you know, we've got the prospects, and we've got the outlook of like, we've been referred to as the Tesla of Housing, it's referred to Apple here and then, but we've only built one development because what it is, if I can prove I can do it the absolute best and scale the amount of bacteria in, by the time we turn this tap on, and when we do need to build 20,000 hours at the end, this, you know, any pandemic or the world is in, you know, England with more 4 million hours in deficit, I can turn that tap on, unlike anyone has ever scaled before. Is that support, and those people, believing in young tech startups, and believing in me, and you know, they saw that I was an abundant amount of energy, but what they saw is, it was a combination of untapped intelligence and passion, and a willingness to listen and learn. And there are people out there, and the only advice I can give people, if you're looking at it, is that, be passionate about what you do and listen to those. You get a lot of people that are really talented and really passionate, but they can be really arrogant and not realize that there's someone that's done this 20 years before you. You may have the version 2.0, mate, but you've just got a long way to go, and it's an attribute of yourself, just have a little listen to those guys. You're gonna fuck up, like trust. I mess up all the time, like I've got a ball now, and I'm like, oh my God. That's cool, you learn from that. You learn from that, it's fine. You go. And so, yeah, just keep the passion, and when you listen to learn and realize the other thing, it's gonna go wrong at times. It's not about how it goes wrong, it's about how you're recovered, about how you're thinking, about how you don't panic, and combine that passion with that knowledge and that hunger, and people will see it, and they do see it. And you've just got to get around it. I mean, having a mentor is awesome. Asking for help is a powerful thing, and also the other thing is, it's great that so many people like that are willing to send the elevator back down, and help people that they identify as being high potential or needing help or whatever, and just connecting both together. God thinks he's one of the most kindest people I've met, and he was the Godfather of hedge funds. They call him, as a reference, and he's not a good husband. He's seen on that, but you see a man group, and he's the biggest listed hedge fund. And for a man of that level of capitalism, the kindness from his heart, and the way that he educates his individuals and his students, I'd say, and the way that he invests his portfolio now is more than commendable, because in my opinion, it's people outstanding, and then they're set in the benchmark on it. And I'm evidence of it. I don't think there's a story like mine at the moment out there with this kind of level of capitalist investment people, but the social view. And I hope the trend has been happening. It's been happening a lot in Silicon Valley, and the UK has not seen it that much. I think there is a dream coming now. You've seen a lot more investment going to these kind of companies, a lot more focus on green social, but you know, sensible social, i.e., it makes money, but it also makes the world spin a bit faster and a bit better. Yeah, and it's amazing to have these people, man. It just don't run, it's not. You learn a lot very fast, so... Yeah, yeah, it's just good. It's good you've surrounded yourself with people that can teach you stuff, that have got experiences in different places that you can draw on, and it's the way to do it. It's been really good. Yeah, yeah, man. What's your plan for the future now? We have... I can't say because my brain, there's so many things on the horizon, man. I want to tell you all of them. I think you're like top three. You're top three, like most exciting things. Top three most exciting things, one. Right, so I'm not going to mention exactly what they are. I'm going to talk about the topic now. Sorry. I love this kind of creative discussion here, but I have a brand, a strategic partnership, it's a brand director for a reason here, and I've got a board to keep me on the locking key. One, we just signed a deal with a top five company in the world regarding technology. It's going to be released next month. It will be the first company in our sector to have a backing of a major, major, major tech company from the UK. It will change the game for technology in houses. Two, I've proven that I could build any new building and make it offset carbon. There's something in play coming to market that's going to make every single home energy positive and zero. Yeah, three. There's something on the horizon that's coming, that's going to revolutionise the planning industry globally to ever that we've developed as a software. Wow. So there's about a few things that are happening around now that are going to ground break. You know, my goal is a call. So like I did the development piece, Wicked. Now I've got the tech piece that's going to go global, Wicked. Then I want to look at how that, I mean, there's a lot of existing homes, let's have the list of all that. We've already got it in play. And then the other one is like, how do I now give access to this eight billion humans on the planet, this technology, you know, and give them access to these housing, the kind of technologies and all that. So yeah. Beautiful. Man, good luck. It's great to speak to you. Thanks for sharing a story. And good luck with everything. Thank you, bro. Appreciate it. Everyone keep safe at this time. And I look forward to our next encounter. Definitely. Face it. Hopefully, face the face. Thanks, man. See ya.