 Welcome back to the two-wheel revolution here on thinkdeck.com. I'm Peter Rossick. Today we are going to continue our discussion of electric bicycles with somebody who really knows what he's talking about for a change, an author, a blogger, and an avid electric bike rider. His name is Dave Hogan. And he's talking to us from Florida, but he's got fingers in all over the country, as I understand it. And just so Dave, welcome to the show. Thank you, Peter. It's just a pleasure to be here. All right. So let's just dive right into the book, because I think that's what, you know, among the many things you're doing seems to be one of the most valuable. Tell us, the book is called E-Bikes, putting the fun back into cycling and life at any age, which I think we're both in that certain, you know, men of certain age. And so that's really interesting to me, although I think there are a lot of younger riders. So tell us about, tell us, tell us about the book. Give us, give us the pitch. Why should we be buying it? Yes, the book is written really for anyone who might be interested in E-Bikes, but especially for senior adults. That seems to be the largest target market so far here, particularly in North America for E-Bikes. And as an E-Bike rider, do you probably have the same experience, Peter? I constantly would, would run into people who would stop me on my bike, ask questions about my E-Bike and the motor and just very curious about it. A lot of seniors were interested in the E-Bikes. And so there didn't seem to be a book that fit that niche. So I worked for about a year putting this book together, interviewed a lot of people and it came out in December of 2021. All right, so it's not, I know there are a lot of books about E-Bikes out there and some of them are pretty technical and pretty, pretty nerdy, but I take it this is much more for what we would call the average reader or everyday reader. Yes, exactly. It's for the kind of layman version of the book. It's not a mechanical, you know, how Terry Biker Park put it back together type book. It's how the average consumer who maybe, you know, doesn't have a background and bicycling at all can learn everything they need to know, you know, how to choose an E-Bike, how to ride safely, how to protect the bike, you know, from theft and other risks. So just a broad based look. It's not brand specific. I'm not promoting any one bike or brand in the book. Try to be careful about that. Just give a good introduction. All right, that's terrific. So it sounds like it's a soup to nuts kind of thing for, you know, the person who isn't really used to dining at this table and needs looking for really kind of advice from somebody who isn't pushing, except for the E-Bike riding, pushing a cause. Which I think, yeah. So Peter, my favorite part of writing this book and the part I've had probably the best feedback on from readers is each chapter ends with a profile of a senior adult E-Bike rider. And I got some amazing people to share their stories with me. Many had had significant health problems. They were unable to, you know, literally walk around the block, but E-Bike gave them a new lease on life, something to get excited about, improve their health. And so I interviewed 12 people from all over the world really, you know, from Europe and North America at least. And it was fascinating. I was inspired here in their stories and how many different ways E-Bikes are improving people's life. And so I'd encourage you to pick up a copy of the book, be sure, if you read nothing else, read those 12 profiles at the end of each chapter. Well, for the next edition, I think you should go to China or Japan and get it really to be worldwide. But so give us a story. Give us an example of, you know, whether you use names or not or whatever. Give us a story of somebody whose life really was changed by getting on an E-Bike. Yeah, Dr. Miriam Lieberman, she's a retired doctor now in California, had had significant health problems over 20 surgeries. She was largely disabled. There was a time in fact when she couldn't even drive her car and she was introduced to electric bikes by, you know, friends there in Southern California who saw her predicament. And she started actually riding her bike. She was still working at the time to work. It was not a short ride. And she began to build up her stamina and realized, hey, I can do this. And now she and her husband have taken the retire now, have taken trips all over the place, you know, with their bikes and she's actually a more active rider than I am and she's a, credits the E-Bike with approving her health. Here's another woman, Jane Borden-Kiplinski, who had had health problems since childhood. She was diagnosed as a teenager of rheumatoid arthritis. And then, you know, the problems just kept compounding. Later in life, she fell and broke a hip. And so she too was pretty much disabled. She still walked with a limp and she's, as she tells me, she was in pain pretty much every day. However, oh, she has balance issues too. So two wheel bike is out, but put her on a three wheel electric trike and she's off to the races. So that has been her key to adventure and independence is to ride an electric trike. And so each of them have different stories, but just so inspiring. Wow, that is a great story. It sounds sort of like the person who stutters, when they start to sing, the stutter goes away. So you get on the bike and you're ready to travel there. All right, but that's terrific. We'll get a picture of the book up on the screen pretty soon here. And tell us just, we're all enthused. How do we get a copy? Okay, it's available through most of the online sellers from Amazon and Apple and Barnes and Noble, those types of online book distributors. So you can go in there and look for, e-bikes, putting the phone back into cycling life, the age is the name of the book, or just look for my, my visa or search for my name, Dave Hogan as the author, but it's really available. It's in a paperback format, which is popular. There's a e-book version format. This is of course the cheapest version. And then there's also a hardback version. All right, very good. How are sales going? Steady. I don't have the marketing budget. This is a self-published book. So I didn't go through a known publisher. And so I've done some marketing and it's still, the sales have held up really well on, you know, a low, but steady number. And I'm pleased with it. We're of course left to see. I'd like to see more people give the book, not so much from my benefit, because I think anyone who's interested in e-bikes, particularly seniors will really find the book beneficial. Perfect. So let's go back a bit and talk about you and your life before all this, about your career and what you've done up to now. Yeah, interesting Peter, you and I have a somewhat similar background. I was a journalism major in college and was a newspaper reporter for about five years while I was a young man. And it's a young man's job, believe me. Yes, it is. And my last job was covering finance and business for a daily newspaper here in Florida. And that kind of led me up into a tangent and became a financial advisor and got my certified financial planner license, which I still have. So I have never though lost my love for a good interview and for writing. And so that's why now that I'm at least semi retired, I'm still working, but not full-time, I started the blog and wanted to have that creative outlet. Honestly, it's not really a money-making venture for me. It'd be nice if it was, but it's not. But I enjoy it and feel I like to find stories I can write about that will be beneficial to the readers. Yeah, and you seem to have done that. People's stories are the best stories in my estimation. I read somewhere that you and your wife when you married some 46, 47 years ago, gave each other matching bicycles. Is that right? We did, yeah, back in the days of Raleigh, three-speed bikes, if you remember those. That does stay the same back in the day of the three-speed Raleigh. It does. They were beauties, Candy Apple Red, the White Wall Tires, they were pretty bikes. So we rode those for many years. And when we had our first child, we got the bike seat on the back, a bike for the child. So those were, I guess I really fell in love with bicycling as a child, like many of us did. It was our first play of getting some independence. You could be free to roam around the neighborhood somewhat, especially back in those days. You had four cell phones and so much crime. I was a typical kid back in that day where what time is dinner? Okay, I'll be back and I'd be off for hours. So my bike parents had no way of contacting me or vice versa. So it was my way of exploring my town. So I've never lost that love or enthusiasm for it. Oh, terrific. I think, you know, you look at children today, but you think there's so many things that you can do as a child and somehow or other along the way, there's some turning point where you lose that child-like enthusiasm for things of the inquisitiveness or whatever. But it seems like for bicycling, you've stuck with it all along. Is that, you've been bicycling all through or did you kind of interrupt and then come back? Yeah, kind of yes and no. I've always owned a bike. It was honestly, after those young adult years when I got busier with my career and family, the bike sat in the garage more than I wrote it, to be honest. But it was always there. I always kind of consider myself a bicyclist, but I didn't ride much. And it really wasn't until the electric bike came out, I bought my first one, oh, probably not more than about five years ago. It's really not been that long. And oh boy, you know, that was a whole new game and my love of biking really took off. And I ride far more now than I ever did before. Okay, so for the record, how many electric bikes do you have? Two right now, that's not nearly enough. I have two. I can't tell my wife and I need a few more, but. Yeah, and she probably says, well, you can only ride one at a time. So I know you in the book, you don't want to go into specific brands, but I think a lot of people would wonder, what kind of bikes does the guy like you have? Yeah, of course, like all of us, I have a budget. So I have some dream bikes that would be nice to have, but I have good quality bikes, but not terribly expensive. I have a Pettico boomerang bike and a good solid bike that has given me a good service. Actually, I think that's the Pettico in the photo there with this. Yeah, I think we'll get that photo up. Step through frame. And then I have a smaller 20 inch bike Magnum Pathfinder. And so really, I love both of the bikes. They're very different ones, 26 inch ones, 20. But it's a somewhat different for short rides. I enjoy the Magnum for longer trail rides. The larger Pettico bike is very comfortable. Interesting. Neither of those are fancy or frankly, terrifically expensive. I don't think, are they? No, Pettico more than the Magnum, but no, compared to, you know, Gazelle or some of the other brands out there that might be on my dream list someday. Yeah, they're reasonably priced and good quality bikes. Yeah, I think you can obviously spend almost skies to limit, but you really don't have to, especially getting started. You can start on something like the Pettico, which I think is just very functional. Yes. Okay, so but only two bikes. Yeah, that's a problem. So how did you start, what got you to start? Did you have some kind of a health issue or if you want to talk about it, but what brought, you know, you had those, maybe it's still those Rollies or whatever in the garage, but then one day you went out and bought an electric bike and what, what was it that made that happen? Well, you know, part of it was, people don't believe me when I say this, but not all of Florida is flat. The section I live in here in central Florida actually has quite a few hills. And we had, we had a couple of, since we're talking brands, Electra bikes is a common brand when you're made by Trek. We had a couple of, you know, Don Electric, my wife and I did, Electra bikes. And in our neighborhood and surrounding area, it was pretty hilly as we were getting into our 60s, it was becoming more of a challenge and just not as much fun to ride those bikes anymore. And I heard about electric bikes, started doing some research, you know, went to a couple of shops and looked down and made the switch and never looked back. And, you know, everybody loves their bike. They have all kinds of good bikes out there, but to me, I would never own one now that, you know, it's not electric. This is much more fun and easier to ride, particularly at this age. All right. Actually, you know, my story is somewhat similar. My wife and I were doing a lot of bicycle touring in Europe on conventional bikes. And one day in Holland, we were going along the coast and we were riding up and down these dunes. And it wasn't the most fun I've ever had. It was kind of wearying. And then all of a sudden, these two people go whizzing by and, you know, they were old. Even today, I would have described them as old people and they were just going as fast as they could imagine. And I looked at them and when we got to the next stop, there were their bikes. I looked at the bikes, sure enough, they were electric bikes. And these people were, you know, out and certainly enjoying themselves that day more than I was. So it is something that when you can, if you've ever ridden and most of us have, you can come back to it in a whole new perspective. So I really, I hear you. It's really terrific. Yeah, pick it up. The other thing on your blog, I guess you talk about places that are good for bicycling. And I noticed there was a town in Michigan and I imagine they're good places in Florida. What makes a good place for bicycling? What makes a town bike-friendly? Yes, of course, good infrastructure about that. I mean, good bike trails, you know, my preferences were paved, but there are some really good trails that aren't necessarily paved, but if they're in good condition, that's okay. But where you can feel safe riding your bike, that's one of the big factors that keeps people from riding bikes, period, because they don't feel safe, particularly, of course, here in North America, compared to, say, in Netherlands, where you were riding over there, the bike infrastructure's so good. But over here, you know, people don't feel safe, particularly, you know, in North America, we think we're doing a good job with paint a little white line on the existing street and call it a bike lane, and it's three feet wide. I mean, really, it was to be a three foot wide bike lane, not right next to a truck doing 45 to 50 miles an hour. So, you know, people don't feel safe unless it's good bike infrastructure. And then some towns go out of their way to cater to bikes, you know, they provide good bike racks in the downtown areas, and, you know, cafes and things are welcoming to bikes, maybe let you recharge your battery while you're having lunch, you know, all those sorts of factors, just where you feel like, hey, this is the town where I'm welcome as a biker. And then, of course, scenery is always nice if you have some beautiful scenery to look at as you ride. Yeah, that's for sure, and, you know, I couldn't agree with you more about the safety consideration. This program talks about electric bikes, we also talk about electric scooters, even though I hear Hawaii electric skateboards are big, even electric one-wheels. But the main thing I think that keeps people off of them is the feeling, the perception sometimes true that they're not safe. Yeah. And the infrastructure here in North America is improving, but it's still way behind, you know, at least the better parts of Europe. And yeah, but I think it's gonna get better. You know, it may not help you and me, Peter, but I think in another 10, 15 years and a generation, America's gonna be much more bike friendly than it is today with some exciting plans on the way, on the drawing boards. And I think that city planners and traffic engineers are beginning to wake up to the need to make our streets not only bike friendly, but pedestrian friendly. You know, it's unsafe to walk in America, which is a sad commentary, but it's true. Yeah, I agree with you, you know, the Netherlands obviously, Copenhagen places like that. And it all looks probably in Amsterdam, for example. First of all, bikes have a number of people, not to mention cars, but the difference and there's the infrastructure is much better. But I also think in Amsterdam, every automobile driver has been and probably is now a cyclist. And every one of them has had, you know, has their kids, has their parents, grandparents on bicycles. So when they're driving around, they have a certain, you know, I'm sure there's an irritation factor like everybody else when there's 20 bikes in front of you at the stoplight and you have to wait for them to go forward. But they know in their, you know, in their being that safety is important and that they don't wanna be responsible for something terrible happening to somebody else's kid or grandmother or wife or whatever. And so you see people, you see well-dressed women bicycling along, you see them riding side saddle, kids riding side saddle on the back. I wish I could, which there were a few more helmets in that town, but that's their look out. So, and what's your feeling? I noticed your pictures obviously are all, you're helmeted up and you talk in the book about helmets and the importance of that kind of thing. I do. I think helmets are very important. Even a fall at a low speed. If you just, you know, some people are getting on their bike, kind of tumble and fall over the first time and... I've done that? Yeah. I mean, it doesn't take much. Me or your head is not that well, but technically skulls can break and you just don't wanna hit a skull against pavement. It's not an equal match. And so even in this even at a low speed. So, you know, particularly if you're going a bit faster, but I treat it like a seatbelt. You know, you just don't start the car, you don't back out of the driveway without the seatbelt in place. I'm the same way on the bike. I'm just, I'm gonna have to help me know before I turn the motor on on the bike. All right. So, what's next for you? Are you gonna do another book or are you gonna, how are you gonna continue to promote electric bicycles? Well, of course I've got lots of, just a personal note, I've got lots of trails I want to ride. I keep a good bucket list of trails I haven't ridden yet. And of course, my wife says, you know, you're not gonna live that long to look to ride on those trails, but I'll do my best. And it might be a trike in a few years. So who knows or a motorized scooter, but I'll be out there as long as I can. Interestingly, you mentioned about in Europe, my wife and I are making our first trip to Europe for bike riding this summer. And I'm going to Harlem outside of Amsterdam and do a five-day self-guided bike tour down through Lieden and probably mispronounce some of these towns. Leiden, is it Gouda? Is that the two? Yeah, Gouda is cheese. Gouda is good. Yeah, Gouda is good. Maybe down the theft. Yeah. And of course, Udrik back up through that way. It's gonna be a fun adventure for me. I've never done that before. And then I'm going down to, in southern Germany, there's a large resort lake called Lake Constance, or the Germans call it Bodensee. And there's an excellent bike trail that runs around the entire lake. I'm not doing the entire trail, but I'm going to do portions of that. We're gonna stay along the lake for about a week. And so this is gonna be a real adventure. That's coming up later this year. Yeah, I'd love to do Lake Constance as well, but we have done two or three trips in Holland. And I guarantee you, you will love it. The towns you mentioned, we started also in Harlem, stayed overnight there and got our bikes and then rode, sounds like pretty much the same route. But I would also suggest you take a look at the North Holland route where you start in Amsterdam and you go up the, I guess you'd call it the Northwestern Coast. And we did that on a bike and barge. And when you get, after you've done a few of these self-guided hotel to hotel trips, like I think you're doing, where they move your luggage for you, right? Yes. You will see you and I think your wife will want to look at barges. The barge goes along the rivers and meets you at the next place. So you get up in the morning, they take your bike off the boat, you ride for 20, 30 miles, whatever it is. And by the time you get to the next stop, there's the barge, you know, a hundred passenger or so river boat. So you don't have to pack and unpack. Your hotel comes with you, so to speak. And the tour we did in North Holland on a boat called the Arcona was one of our, out of the eight or nine tours, we've done one of the best. So, and I think you'll love Lake Constance also, just because you're going to be, you know, along the water and that's going to be awesome. So, any last words of encouragement for those people, for my two or three listeners who might be considering getting an e-bike, give them the pitch. I would recommend as a first step, go to a local bike shop, test ride, one or more bikes, maybe rent a bike for an hour or for a half day and see what you think. Bikes are different. I don't recommend particularly first time e-bike buyers to buy online because you really need to test ride the bike. You need to make sure it's the right fit for you. Some of these bikes are pretty massive. I mean, I don't feel comfortable on that. You know, they look at motorcycles. So, you've got to be a big guy to maybe be comfortable on those bikes. Other bikes are much more petite and lighter weight. So, you really need to test the bikes and make sure it's the right bike for you. And a dealer also can provide, of course, a lot of advice. They can help fit the bike for you, assemble it properly and then provide warranty work. As a matter of fact, my pedicure bike is in the shop today for warranty work. Nothing wrong with that, but just they do a one year check that keeps your warranty in place if you come in once a year for a check. So, that's all the advantage of using a local dealer. And, you know, don't be that concerned about what we're talking about, the mechanical details or where it's mid-drive or hub drive and cadence sensors or torque sensor. You know, oh, your first bike particularly, you go have fun no matter what you buy and as long as it's a proper fit for you. That is great advice. Go try it out. And pretty much every bike shop, every town has a bike shop or two and pretty much every shop now are rental places. You know, if you go to a bigger city that has bike rentals like San Francisco or places like that, you can rent an electric bike for a day. They'll show you what to do. It doesn't take long. That's terrific advice. Try it out before you put the thousand or whatever number of dollars down on something. And buying online is risky, I think. But, you know, if it's the way, if it's the only way that works for you, that's what works. But really having a dealer who knows what they're doing is the best thing. I really want to thank you. We're coming to the end of our half hour here. You know, it really is encouraging to find somebody who's willing to spend the time and effort to promote e-bikes not because they're going to make a fortune out of it, not because they're, you know, they're in it for the business but because they really want to have people take advantage of them. So I really appreciate what you're doing. Thank you for being on the show. Come to Hawaii. We're getting more and more bike structure all the time. I would not, too. Yeah, we're still, we're kind of halfway between the separated bike lane and the painted stuff on the street. The city government here is committed to making the place more bike-friendly and we have a good bike share system and a lot of stores. So... Thank you, Peter. It has been a pleasure to talk with you. Have a great trip in Amsterdam and Lake Constance. You will come back after you do that. We'll have another show and you'll tell us all about it. I'd love to, anytime. All right, Dave. Thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure and thank you both of you for all three of you for watching the 2L Revolution here on Think Tech Hawaii. We'll be back in a couple of weeks. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please click the like and subscribe button on YouTube. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Check out our website, ThinkTechHawaii.com. Mahalo.