 Hi my name is Sandy Baird for this quick evening, a late-minute announcement but I hope that this program is going to be also recorded on CCTV because it's a very important discussion that I'll be having tonight with Eric Gagnaro, a person who knows a lot about France and the French elections and so he'll be giving us an update on the French elections, what it means for France, what it means for Europe and what it means for the United States and indeed for the whole world. France is a very important republic, the sister republic of the United States, our oldest ally, our oldest friend and so we find that the French elections has a lot of importance to us and to the world. So here's Eric who was from one of the former French colonies, maybe still is, from the Code d'Ivoire, our hybrid post and he has been with CNN before and Voice of America and we are going to ask him to analyze those elections in France which just occurred. So take it away. Thank you Sandy, the French went to both you know to choose their the member of the parliament right after the presidential election which saw Emmanuel Macron being reelected you know he was facing Marine Le Pen so after the French presidential election comes the legislative elections where you know the French will decide if the president will be governing with an absolute majority or with no majority of you know the National Assembly, in this case he will have to deal with you know the opposition in crafting you know deals to work to govern. So before we start it's very important that we understand you know how it works exactly how the legislative elections work in France. Usually bras fits small chested women like this. This is of 577 members they represent 566 district plus 11 more overseas to represent French citizens who live abroad seats are divided into constituencies with each meant to represent 125,000 residents all of the MPs in the chamber are up for election every five years and the vote happens in two rounds candidates who receive at least 12 and a half percent of the vote advance to the second round once in office the members have a number of responsibilities in addition to passing laws they also serve as a check on the president's administration holding weekly sessions to question cabinet members they can also convene parliamentary inquiries into matters of concern the number of MPs in the National Assembly has changed over time to account for shifts in population but the changes have not always reflected reality with some administrative departments losing residents but maintaining the same number of seats the two round system has also come under criticism for not being proportional giving an advantage to larger parties can you hear me okay Eric yeah okay are you ready for this second video the first video is already finished yes it played through did you not see it the whole time no okay all right so anyway they will add it I mean they were in the editing they were doing so this is how it works so all these parliamentarians have been elected and very soon we're going to understand what went on because Emmanuel Macron didn't have an absolute majority okay let me let me interrupt you about that first of all Macron won the election for president correct yes okay so but it was a narrow victory as well right it was a narrow victory right but in any case he became president okay so he became president and then there were elections for legislative seats yes okay and that's called the parliament yes France two is it bicameral with a senate and like a house yes the National Assembly like almost the House of Lords yes right okay so the National Assembly in us you know is that you elect legislators correct yes and usually those legislators belong to a party or not yeah they belong to a party so all the parties go to the elections and the party that comes with the majority then can have a prime minister okay but if you don't have the majority I mean the party that has the majority to be the party of the president so in the following video we will understand exactly what happened after these elections and what is the new you know configuration okay so we will watch a second video right okay Ensemble Alliance has lost its absolute majority in the French National Assembly just two months after he was reelected as president in France's parliamentary elections Ensemble secured 245 seats far below the 289 needed for a majority they were followed by the left-wing coalition noobs led by Jean-Luc Mélenchon who grabbed 141 seats in Sunday's vote and Marine Le Pen's far-right party their assemblement national celebrated a historic breakthrough by obtaining 89 seats jumping from the sixth the third biggest party well for more analysis of Sunday's results we're now joined by Rainbow Murray a professor of politics at Queen Mary University of London thanks for joining us on the program tonight Miss Murray and so is this a shock for President Macron and given the gains on both the hard left and the right is this a rejection of the reform agenda by voters it's a bit of a shock the polls said that there was a risk that he might lose his majority but the extent to which he's lost it the gap between the number of seats he has and the number of seats he needed is much larger than was expected it is a rejection of him by French voters and one thing that's important to understand is that they didn't massively endorse him when he won the election two months ago he was mostly getting support from people who were voting against his opponents Marine Le Pen rather than voting for him and that antipathy has now played out because people haven't been willing to give him a parliamentary majority which is something that every incoming president has enjoyed for decades including Macron himself when he was elected in 2017 but it hasn't happened this time around so this is a rejection of Macron but why have voters been given their backing to Marine Le Pen what does she really offer them it's not so much that they like Marine Le Pen as that they are disillusioned with politics as it stands and that they feel neglected and left out by the current political system there's widespread unhappiness in France with the cost of living crisis it's easy for a party like Le Pen's to blame skate goats to talk about Europe to talk about immigration and those are her normal stomping grounds and she's also worked extremely hard making her party more mainstream more politically acceptable so whereas once people might have felt like a bit of a pariah for voting for the far right now it's become normalized so who then could potentially play king maker the republicans they haven't done well but could you see them perhaps swallowing their pride and propping up Macron they are the obvious king makers and there are good reasons why they might prop up Macron's government for one thing they would gain influence and relevance that they otherwise won't have and they're in fourth place they've got 60-odd seats so they're not going to manage to achieve an awful lot without working with the government and in terms of ideological alignment there's a close alignment now between Macron and the republicans when Macron first came to power five years ago he was seen as a centrist and he spent the past five years steadily encroaching on the turf of the republicans usurping their people usurping their ideas their voters so if the republicans supported them supported Macron they'd largely be voting for their own policies the problem is that because he spent so much time stealing from them they're not inclined to help him now they resent him and they're worried that if they do join forces with him now that will entirely erase what they have left of their identity so there's a determination there to resist and I think the party is going to have some quite robust internal debates behind closed doors about whether they should now join forces with him or insist on resisting and if they do resist Macron's options are very limited because he doesn't really have anywhere else he can go okay what does all that mean okay all that means that you know uh Macron is in deep trouble because you know he need to have that majority to be able to continue he has a majority he has a simple majority he has a simple majority okay and then having a simple majority they doesn't you know help him you know pass all the measures that you will have to have deals with the the oppositions and and in this case he has some kind of a very particular position you have on one hand the far right of marine le pen yeah marine le pen right and and and and also the the the irregular right which is lehrip became which was lehri republican not like our republican so okay okay but you know there was ten for that if like simply would there would stand for the republicans here it's like the the conservatives right of course but they're not the far right okay all right so and then you are on the other end you have the far left the communists the communists the communists are still around the france you have the green parties you are also uh the uh france ensoumise which will literally uh translate in uh to uh the unbowed france it's a movement by uh the um uh the what is it Jean-Luc Mélenchon is now the flagship of that you know uh left right but the left movement is a coalition of all of these so uh that's how they managed probably to beat Macron I mean not beating literally yet because they decided to go all together so in each electoral you know uh zone they presented one candidate rather than rather than going separate so now they managed to have like a very uh consistent place rather than having gone like like the socialists the the uh communists would be far so but then united on one candidate in each district yes but unfortunately they were hoping to have the majority right having the majority they would have at a prime minister right because in France you know uh the party that has the majority the absolute majority appoint a prime minister they appoint so like there's a president the president the president appoints the prime minister but okay go ahead I'm sorry so uh so in this case Macron still has the majority so he can still appoint a prime minister if he didn't have the the majority and then the majority was held by one party or one coalition of party that uh you know have the same vision political you know also political objectives then they will have to you know present a prime minister to do to do in this case uh neither the far right neither or nor the left a far left has the majority so uh it will be a very complicated situation whereby Macron has to uh uh uh deal with this side of the parliament on some issues deal with this side of the parliament on other issues when we know that Marine Levin and the far right is very very much you know at the you know the you know opposite you know uh side of the spectrum compared to uh to far left how so uh I mean what is it what is it about Marie Le Pen that has been so in a sense demonized is there is she for instance like her father is she really uh anti-immigrant is she really a fun uh strong christian what's the deal with her yeah she's she's considered what you know in Europe is called the far right I know but what does that even mean the far right is anti-immigrant okay and then when it comes to immigration yeah they usually uh nationalize because remember the Hassan du Monde nationalized so it's a nationalized party that in France by France standard that is considered far right when in the US you know it's like a party would be maybe considered democrat but just to tell you that you know uh the way they look at Marine Le Pen in France in Europe in Europe is like uh you know uh she's anti-immigrant she's very much nationalized she's against NATO she's against nationalized you know there's a lot of people who don't like globalization and they are not really far right they are also many of them left there right so it's interesting so it's a it's a it's a melange of of ideology and and ideas that you know but the main main issue here is that she is and her party and parties that you know a side of the political spectrum are uh very much against Macron because Macron is the embodiment of neoliberalism correct and then yeah because and then remember France and Europe you know is not the US so liberalism in in in Europe is like uh like the democrat liberals in Europe are like democrats yeah because they're pro-business but you know a little you know there's a tradition of social welfare social like he wants to break some of that tradition right like tensions yeah because Macron is a charity yes and also is uh beyond of the banks beyond of the big corporates beyond of the you know of the you know ultra you know uh liberal i mean liberal in France it's like uh conservative i mean there for business so how how would we call them here like pro-business pro but it's all there but the democrats are also leaning in that direction of neoliberalism globalization um and reduction in social welfare programs is that the way Macron is also yeah so it's really like a global movement yeah it's a global movement like to to put it simply is that France is doing like maybe uh 30 years later what Reagan and Clinton and Clinton but Reagan and Margaret Thatcher yes so France of course because of this heavy you know history and and culture of welfare also socialism was very late to get into this neoliberalism right of course Mitterrand was there the socialist wave power so now Macron is to break all the last barriers before you know you know so it didn't go through with France because you know in France you know the unions are very strong people want to go to retire and he was close ally also US correct yes it's a strong ally of the US yeah and then and then most of his opponent call him a little uh a dog I mean a little puppy of the US yes yes yes yes yes yes yes to the US because uh uh uh the far right is against the war in Ukraine okay so let's get there all right so in France so you have a right a real right in Marie Le Pen you have a real left with Melanchol right and so those two wings of the French political system are going to block the problem yeah you're going to block my call I don't I don't know if you call the real right but let's be in the context of Europe and call them far right okay calm the far right because the communists will definitely be considered even in Europe or it and in here a much more so right as you know far far away but this but Francis always had a real left communists and socialists yes okay all right the problem is that the socialists at some point because remember that uh uh a gradual move towards liberalism is not only uh the fact of the governments the multinationals and that uh you know uh uh uh uh uh uh global government that is taking place now and and forcing all the governments to go uh to that path of ultra liberalism you know a forcing government so okay so is that those forces coming from the world bank and from the IMF for what or the UN or what is it they'll prove they're corporate forces okay all right let's see all right the corporate forces uh to which you know governments say to our governments and say to our welfare governments like France not resistable why not hey I mean why not that's why there's a rebellion that's why but it's a rebellion from the people from the people right the rebellion from the people and then even the socialists that were the uh I mean that were at the forefront of that resistance against ultra liberalism fell into the trap of liberalism because in any way with the European Union which is almost like a supra government right they don't like that much either so it's a reaction of the people against all these big ensembles that annihilate you know the you know the the will of the people local I mean democracy that annihilates democracy right so what we're seeing in France and then it's interesting at least it shows to the world that it's not about only Marine Le Pen the far right and it's a movement of the people which is expressed through different parties who would believe that today the far right and the far left can you know in terms of certain things it is happening here as well the far right is libertarian and the far left also is moving to that those kinds of positions also around this war for instance okay how does this war play out in this election the war I mean in Ukraine the war in Ukraine okay so you're the natal power France is in natal correct although okay so all about the goal the war for France out of the military command but still France is native so France and Germany Germany the big powers the big powers France is a very key power yes right of the US of the US war so with uh government in France which will have difficulties to be obedient to NATO the war in in in in Ukraine and the war in general yes of NATO against the rest of the world wait a minute it's not NATO against the rest of the world that this moment it's NATO against Russia correct yeah but you know Russia also is getting allies for at least people who doesn't who don't want or government who we don't want to align themselves with any position like sometimes look for example the US is passing a law to banish any government in Africa that feels with Russia yeah I mean it's in favor of Russian influence in in in in in in the world or in Africa for example so where do you put a government in Africa who that is friends of Russia as an enemy of NATO right right so to me that's why I'm calling it a war against I mean not about the rest of the world because Latin America for example is not let's get there in a minute let's go back to the French because what I saw was the far right and the far left that you're talking about are kind of united honest they are against the war in Ukraine they think it there should be a negotiated peace at least yeah more more so it's not only the it's not only a question that right because even about this question there are some you know new okay yeah I'm pretty sure the socialists are not maybe in favor of this war but don't don't want to give a blind check to Russia so at least they will bring that issue to a debate when Macron could a few months ago go at war without having to you know ask any permission or to have even had to talk about it now you know Macron cannot decide I'm pretty sure to send any weapon if he doesn't go to the parliament okay right you know you know what I'm saying yes it's a little difficult and the war is not the only issue okay what are the other ones the other ones are for example the the you know the ultra-liberalism in general the bringing back the industries that you know went to China to the French industry yes a lot of you know a lot of jobs abroad to China you know you know you know created some kind of you know problems in in France there's also retirement right the French are very jealous of the you know as they should be yes so Macron wants to make them work you know Macron wants you know so it's like a fight for survival and the power of the people and and then that's why even imagine the there's a there's a last video that's very important because even a girl from France who is wearing the nika I mean the the veil he said she has good ideas if only she could be less you know aggressive about the veil and the muscles go ahead do we have that can we have the video uh uh uh yes that that's the last video and then it's also a very good take on the situation from you know England what's at the center now they are some you know as for Macron's authority has suddenly been undermined one paper called the country ungovernable France is not accustomed to such political uncertainty there were strong gains for the left a new group uniting socialists and greens is now the official opposition it's only a couple of months since Macron won the presidential election but now his reform agenda notably his plan to raise the retirement age is in doubt his popularity punctured here in in Le Pen's hometown there was a sense of triumph her far right party the RN going from eight seats to 89 wow we wanted to make Emmanuel Macron a minority president and it's done and we also wanted to have the means to defend our position Le Pen may have lost the presidential campaign but her party has benefited from the soaring cost of living she said the results was way beyond her dreams so delight for Marine Le Pen but of course misery for Emmanuel Macron five years ago he dominated the center of French politics so much that he squeezed the life out of the far right and the far left but now they have both bounced back so spectacularly that we have a hung parliament and France is about to enter its most volatile and divisive period of politics for decades Macron will have to try to be a more inclusive leader now but that change won't come naturally to him or his country the RN party doesn't have the same opinions and I think that's a good idea especially regarding the cost of living petrol prices energy bills there will be changes and I think it's a good thing and French politics is fractured nobody unites this nation and even here on her doorstep many are still wary of Le Pen her political program is quite interesting but the fact that she's against the veil against Muslims and against migrants it puts up a block for us around here the echoes of an industrial past that's left a legacy of disfigured land the economic strife and high unemployment the political landscape may be about to enter its own era of scars and discord Adam Parsons sky news northern France wow yeah but it's good because it's recomposition of the political spectrum it's a new question of you know how politics is done over there and and I think we're seeing it around the globe that's what I wanted to ask you what what influence will this have around the globe of course it will it will definitely you know you know poster you know all the national nationalist in Europe it will yeah but that's going to be perceived by most Americans as a bad thing is that true or are these nationalists really opposed to globalization and is is it a return to sovereignty yes yes indeed and then you can even see that yeah you can even you know it will be of course uh it will it will be you know it will have many things some will be ultra other will try to find the balance like we see in Colombia Colombia okay yeah okay let's get to Colombia okay but in Europe there are many movements that are considered nationalist movements they've been perceived here as fascist or even noxious but who but that's how it's presented in the media yeah but mostly you know the main I mean mainstream I mean the liberal I mean here what we call liberal yes MSNBC not facts so it's been presented to one part of the US as fascists yes but the other part because you know of course among them there are some parties some nationalists that are a little too extreme anti-immigrant anti-immigrant but even when it comes to immigrants people are fed up of this influx of immigrants that come to their shores like almost dying from you know boats and and things you know I mean I think that we have also to look at this question of immigrants not at the panacea for you know people that are living out conditions why are they living the country simple the forces that are played in Europe like the main dominant forces are pillaging their country exactly you know that's why so but there's something else too that I've always said you want to stop immigration stop war in those countries and those wars are are basically continued by the old imperial powers by the united states by France by England yes yes okay I mean its immigration works I come from a country that has 40 percent of its population from immigrants and among them 80 percent are not even I want because they this is the result of a political and economic system that has made I recalls the big factory where and published and published not power not to a country and published countries people countries that have been kept into poverty to to to to serve as a reservoir of cheap labor for that factory so creating massive movement of immigration from after other parts of Africa but I recalls people nobody leaves his country yet nobody leaves his country or her country you know happily they don't want to you know it just because you're looking for greener pasture but you know are we going to be you know governed by just movement of people looking for greener pastures or you know you know so immigration is a tricky subject you know if it's done not as like you know me I'm very sad to see these you know these you know dozens and I mean thousands of immigrants like dying to come to the US or to France or to France they should stay in the countries but we should make the countries viable at least give the chance to these countries to be viable countries so that the citizen won't leave the country stop in you know stop war stop ultra liberalism give sovereignty to these countries so that you know they don't have to you know to to be slaves of the big corporates you know the big corporates they go to these countries they don't create jobs they all just go there to create these shitty excuse my friend shitty jobs and people don't get nothing they don't get protection so they want to come to Europe at the cost of their life that's true in Mexico so all right so oh yes oh yes of course immigration is the right I mean you know people have the right to immigration but we have to make the world a place where everybody can be happy where they are and then you are forced to immigrate maybe in some kind of you know force majeure you know and so look global warming is going to create massive immigration that's not just war war creates that and war creates climate change too right so okay so they're anti-immigrant it's not it's not cool but you know there are reasons for that because in these countries you know they are also people that are looking for jobs so they don't want to have competition it's a normal behavior from human beings you know like when there is food for enough people you don't bother you know having people to come but also immigration could be also used as you know you know a subject a topic by politicians to get elected but in any case if it has a certain resonance in within the population it's because there is a problem there is a problem now the anti-Iowa immigration the we were talking about the nationalist yes but in Italy for example in Italy you know people I mean they've been the rise of people that are you know in February because Italy has always been a beacon for SMEs small and mediums enterprises right exactly right and then thanks to globalization you know Italy in each house there's at least a marketer to do something or to create you know you know they are businessmen they are the produce you know the capitalists yeah on a small scale everything where in China right same as the United States so what do you want people to do just for the sake of not being tagged as nationalist and fascist just give up you know the life give up the the businesses give up the history give up the we need a real discussion not like finger pointing all you were fascist because you don't like chemicals right which is what happens with more in a pen yeah right so that's what happened to Marie Le Pen of course Marie Le Pen can be you know very much extreme when she says okay you don't have the right to put your your your veil and that wasn't just Marie Le Pen that even Emmanuel Macron exactly it's interesting you don't have the right to wear your veil in school in school right I mean in school but I mean in in the but in the street you can mind it's interesting why can a student go to school we were there Marie Le Pen says that no she says no this is what happens in France right even Macron says no yeah all the French say okay when it comes to church because we have to when it comes to school we have to separate church and school but you know so it's a it's it's a debate over these issues that you know people fool you know I think bottom line is that people all over the world not just in France not just near our sick to death of this global economy which means essentially to me rule by the big corporations and the loss of sovereignty of the nation state which is not an ideal creation either but it's like for instance in this country that movement against globalization is called the America first and that's been associated with Donald Trump correct yeah but what are the choices either you put your own country first or are you submit to globalization is that what a man like Macron really has done with France he submitted all of France to a global economy that does not necessarily represent the wishes of the French people yeah is that is that what's going on or I think that we should not be you know at you know the extremes or because you know there are some rules in you know the fact that you can do business yes but doing business is not submitting your own country to the to the states but here too if you if you want to have sovereignty don't also go at war with other right exactly you know don't don't go to submit other countries you know to war because in this instance republicans and democrats they like to go you know but bottom line is you're right people want their country first well it seems to me that's the way yeah it's fair I do I do too I mean and I want to really use to look out for Americans yeah and there's so much now and then you know even you know there's so much in these countries in America I mean in the US within France in countries in Europe there's so much to address right right and going to wage war and and they will try to be the gendarme of the world you know there are people who are homeless in France a country which didn't know what was you know all these about there are people in this country that you know don't don't don't find food to eat or whatever you know we need to look into you know our own eyes rather than looking at the well it seems like it's happening in France right yeah it's happening in France it will happen in the rest of the world it's happening in India yeah okay so that's another whole subject to explore but the columbia elections the main ally in latin america of the u.s was columbia correct yeah and now they have a leftist government yeah which is not interested that much in doing the u.s bidding in latin america correct yeah but I also have the sense that they're not into you like you know I mean totally opposing you know doing business with the liberals you know of course I can't find some kind of right right because it's good also to have free market yes but before you can have free market you have to make sure that you don't put the uh light weather I mean light feathers with the heavy you know you know so so you know you have to you have to you cannot put countries that don't have the might of you know big big big big countries you know to compete you know free market is like okay there's no regulation everybody has to come back you know the u.s and and Sri Lanka don't have the same part right so you cannot expect them to compete the fair but this is a very big topic what's happening in france among the people in latin america in africa all over the world the people apparently are on the move to have really pretty drastic changes and that's a whole other subject for another evening but we will thank eric for being here and talking about france yes and you're you're on icing bow and whatever you know happens it's fast exactly the revolution or the revolution or the american revolution so but the american revolution was first yes so we want maybe those two countries are they going to another revolution we can see if there's any two countries that can do it it will be those two yeah because i'm pretty sure that the u.s fight that white balance it will inspire again i hope so you know of course you know captain is okay there are there is good in captain small capitalism small captain small not right exactly all right so thank you very much and we'll see you in a week or so and we'll be discussing what